Barkley overlooked for Allardyce's first England squad

Ross, lad – you are best as far away as possible from the disaster that the bulldog jowelled battling toss-pot will produce.

Maybe all the "Sky" wining and dining does have its influence.

I ask because Ross was far from the best player on the pitch. He did some good things, yes... but he also did some things which a player of his supposed stature shouldn't be doing.

Not consistent enough for club as it stands and has work to do. International football will come if he settles down and progresses under a manager not filling his head with shit.

So it will probably be the same lot that lost to Iceland?

Hopefully it helps Ross focus on Everton but I expect he will be disappointed.

A weekend that's wasted in not having another round of league fixtures

Not even close to the player either he, or others think he is. If he wasn't an Evertonian, the crowd wouldn't be anywhere near as supportive of him. Massive season ahead for him – very telling that no team came in for him this summer.

Typical media darling and Ross is better out of the whole England gig anyway.

The squad looks poor to me. Doesn't say much about you if you can't get in that squad.

The BBC and some papers had him as MotM yesterday so whatever judgement Sam based his selection on it wasn't on yesterday's game. It could have been the Euros and a dreadful season last year when we were managed by a clown. If so and he wants to see how others perform then fair enough.

Ross is a massively talented lad who has still to completely apply his massive talent into consistent benefit. It will come, believe me.

Welcome to the brave new world of 'Engarrland' under Allardyce then... god forbid.

Between then the qualifiers are just a waste of his time and knowing our luck he will get selected and get injured against Malta. He needs to get his head doen, learn from Koeman and kick on.

However, I didn't think Ross was near man of the match yesterday, and thought that both he and Bolasie balanced out any good things with poor ones. Mirallas was outstanding in my book.

Big Fat Sam, you prick!

This will come as a shock to Ross but this will benefit him in the long term. Consistency is needed now and that will come. He's under enough pressure with Everton at the moment with a new manager to impress. Mark my words, England will come calling again.

All I can say is this Ross, when Allardyce played, the only skillful players he saw where those he had trodden underfoot and the rest he only recognised them from their arses, as they disappeared towards the goal he was defending.

That is why Henderson is in and you are not – there is no other logical explanation.

Roll on 2 weeks time... the Mackems.

Maybe he needs to perfect Henderson's prancing trot he does before every free kick or corner he shanks.

1 and 1 will always make 2; so when are these dinosaurs going to see that they need to change the players to change the result?

Wilshere inclusion is a joke, but the irony is, Wilshere or Sturridge will likely pull out anyway, elevating Ross.

Barkley is a cracking player, and he has proved capable of making and scoring some brilliant goals for us. It's a shame he doesn't get the support that other far less talented players do at Goodison. It seems some blues would just rather watch players flying into tackles for 90 minutes than appreciate genuine creativity.

Christ knows what some of you would have made of Sheedy, you would have probably ripped him to shreds well before he reached his peak at Everton. Allardyce, FFS... he would still pick Kevin Nolan if he could, his teams have always been shite to watch.

Lets keep him injury free & for Everton only. How many players have we lost through injuries at International level.

Mason Holgate was MotM yesterday. Hard to think it is only his first season on regular selection.

Ross plays a high risk game, pushed forward into congested areas and trying things. Ask the opposition if they would prefer him to play further away from their goal. He played one pass in the second half yesterday, first time between the centre backs but too far in front of Kone, chance gone. The crowd groaned. In truth, a sharper, more aware forward than Kone would have been onto that pass.

Let's get behind him. He has faults but there aren't many like him in the Premier League. I'd rather watch him than any of those selected ahead of him for England.

As for Sam being made England manager, well he is about their level. He should be able to put out a team of triers and get a little respect back. Good luck to him, but I can't muster much enthusiasm at chucking our players over to him to grind out results.

I think Ross is well out of England at the minute. They are a disaster. His treatment by England is, however, unusual. He is one of their few players with any talent, and when he was most needed they brought on another holding midfielder. I think he has the world at his feet if he can push on this season, and he needs to concentrate on his league game. I feel for Ross, but if he reaches anywhere near his potential, then there'll be no ignoring him by 2018.

I think in the long run this will be a good thing for Ross – it gives him so much more incentive to prove idiots like Allardyce wrong; it's a win win for us.

Fat Sam is not a complete arse, just an arse.

When will an England manager have the balls to drop the RS media darling?

Let's have it straight: how many of the RS would make the national squad if they were still at Southampton or Sunderland?

The national embarrassment will only continue under Sam.

He has got so much talent and is so gifted but he needs a serious wake up call. This might be what he need. But I also think Koeman somehow will ensure that Ross one day will play like an experienced pro knowing when to play it safe and when to take chances. Without giving the ball away while not even trying to be creative. I really hope that Koeman will manage to develop Ross's game because the way he plays right now he does not deserve (or need) an England call up. And I would expect that Koeman would eventually replace him. But I am also sure that koeman is smart enough to work with Ross before making a big decision.

Martinez gave him freedom and he was a given starter. But he got so many bad habits being allowed not to defend and loose the ball easily. Let Koeman restart Ross and two years from now he might be real class. And probably as a central midfielder and not as the Number 10.

Deep down, I reckon Ross, like most scousers, probably loses about as much sleep worrying about the fortunes of the England national team as the makers of Qourn do fretting about their fishless fingers tasting like a filled and flushed femidom if you forget to close your eyes first and corrosote your mouth immediately after. Being the best player he possibly can, for Everton, is his primary concern, as Koeman made clear this week.

Did anyone else see him today sat on the bench and laughing when he saw that Cabballero was injured. I really hope he sees the footage of himself pissing himself laughing whilst his teammate lay injured. What a fucking melt he really is... and no I don't want him to sign for us

How does 'giving the ball away' count as a failure to take responsibility? The very act of getting on the ball, wanting it in the first place and the willingness to pick it up and start prompting, meets the requirement of taking responsibility on the pitch regardless of the ensuing results. A stray pass or stumbling whilst on the run shouldn't rank alongside someone shitting out, refusing to get involved or seeking to hide.

Yes, he can be lazy... and yes, he can frustrate, but when he is on his game, he is unplayable. Better than any other English midfielder.

I also agree that he needs not to be criticised, but to be loved. Let's get behind Ross and watch him grow into the midfielder we believe he can be. :)

Taking responsibility is to use the ball in the teams best interest. It is irresponsible to loose the ball being sloppy with a simple pass in your on half. To me, a responsible Number 10 would not only want the ball but also know when to play it safe and when to try the magic. This is decision making and that is what Ross needs to improve.

Yes, he's a talented player and one who, when he plays instinctively, is almost unstoppable... but it's impossible to ignore that at times he makes schoolboy errors which sometimes put the team in danger.

There was a discussion some time ago involving one of his former coaches who mentioned about his footballing brain and the fact that the coach in question mentioned that it was in that area where Ross was lacking, and it was that which would prevent him being the player we'd all love him to be.

Personally I enjoy watching him and when he goes on one of those runs on goal where he doesn't stop to think and instinctively drives into the box he's a joy to watch. But it's there to see that there are times when he has the ball at his feet after a run and fails to see players in dangerous positions to give the ball to.

I'm not having a go at the lad, I love him, merely offering constructive criticism.

Allardyce should be ashamed of picking so many Spurs players who were awful in the Euros and haven't exactly been great this season.

Glad Jags got selected but him and Baines should have gone to France anyway. The only thing that made sense was the omission of that massively over-rated cigarette-smoking Wilshere.

I for one will be getting behind him. Ross Barkley.

None of the Everton lads have these headphones then? What a great club?

And who's in the Sky 6 now lads. Are Leicester in it?

I don't give a toss about the national team, but I really hope that this doesn't affect Barkley's confidence. He must be really disillusioned after this and the Euros.

The point I am trying to make is he needs a demanding manager. One who demands he maintain his creativity while at the same time he eliminates his sloppy passing and works much harder. Then he can become an England legend and the likes of Stirling and Delle Alli will admire him.

I saw Antonio today and he doesn't strike me as England material, appears a little slow but then he is a West Ham player. Maybe Mark Noble was more deserving of a call up?

I still cannot understand why that prick Henderson gets in ahead of Ross.

â„– 10 is a critical position and unless you are consistently linking the play and creating chances for others and yourself, and scoring them, you aren't doing your job.

We are all rooting for him cos he's one of us, but unless he does it consistently he may find himself playing neither for England or Everton.

I don't subscribe to the idea that our players are better off not playing for England as the best should always aspire to play for their country.

I can't see Fat Sam being any improvement on his useless predecessor.

Baines would still be a England regular if he'd have moved to Man Utd, Stones will be first choice and so would Ross if he was at Spurs or the Red Shite.

Jags has been selected, but he will be the first one to be overlooked as soon as any game has any importance.

I agree with Ian Pilkington in that playing for your country is important to all concerned, even though I'd take Everton over England every single time.

Mr Dwyer (89) What the fuck ??!!

I do not want our players to leave, but clearly if James Milner, and Jordan Henderson can get in the squad, but Ross Barkley can't then clearly something is wrong.

Also over Baines, the guy had been the best left back in the world a few seasons back, for around 5 years, yet at any chance England gave chances to any left back that came along, that never ever happened to Ashley Cole!

Imo for some reason the FA etc simply overlook us as a genuine force, and our players bear the brunt of it.

Lescott was the same, hardly played at international level at us, then the main man for a few seasons while at Man City.

Jags overlooked for the Euros, didn't feature at the World Cup.

How many examples do you need.

Again, I don't say this to suggest our players should leave, but come on, you must see the pattern.

Ross played okay yesterday, especially the first half, gave away possession quite cheaply in the 2nd half in dangerous areas. For me, he still lacks the instinct as to when to release the ball. I can see a tackle coming in from my seat 70 yards away. It's that split second "give an go" that separates Ross from being a decent player into a great player?

Anyway he can only get better under the guidance of Koeman & Co. I couldn't give a toss about England, it's a southern bullshit thing for me.

He wants players who have or are consistently playing at the highest level. That means regular European football.

There will always be a chance for some players not exposed to regular European football, but slim pickings.

That's the only other explanation for picking idiots like Henderson, other than a media-pressured-FA-influenced bias

Year after year, decade upon decade, our so-called super stars have failed at international tournaments. Despite all the inevitable failures the same names were picked.

Terry, Ferdinand, Lampard, Gerrard, Beckham etc could not garner a single international medal. Year after sodden year those losers were permanent fixtures. Now we see a new bunch of over hyped under performing so called stars take their place.

Had they any dignity or pride those beaten by Iceland should have already offered their international resignation.

Ross Barkley consistently gives the ball away, chooses the wrong option in attacking situations, NEVER tackles or even attempts to, goes missing far too easily and at 23 should be running games in the way (and I hate to say it!!) Steven Gerrard was doing at his age and not be being spoken about in terms of "potential".

I've stated this view on here before and I've still seen nothing that doesn't tell me that, within 3 years, he'll be at a WBA or Sunderland type club. If Everton want to move forward, they need a playmaker now and not someone "with potential".

Joke of a squad by a joke of a manager. Barkley and Everton are best well away from that circus!!

There is somewhat a media bias against towards the London teams, and the so called "big teams".

The English national team has never been comfortable with the real flair players. It couldn't handle Hoddle, Barnes, McManaman and Scholes.

The mindset is a preference for the "Roy of the Rovers" type. Hence, Bryan Robson and Steven Gerard will always be preferred over the schemers.

Even the flair players that had successes at the national level, it is because they are those who are somewhat more direct, and with an "end product"
e.g. Waddle and Gazza. Both would dazzle the crowd, but were often more direct.
Gazza would often take on players, dribbling past players towards the goal. While Gazza was able to make the kind of defence splitting passes, he wasn't really doing as much of it, or at least that wasn't what he was picked for England for, in his early years.

Ross burst onto the 2013/14 team with a reputation for being direct, in a way similar to Gazza. It's only in the second and third season that he tried to take on the schemer-type roles, which ends up with him giving up a lot more balls.

Granted, it could be that he's never going to be at the same level, and I reckon many fans are happy that he does the Gerard type, go on lung bursting runs, and rifle shots from the distance.

Gerard was never able to do what Ross does in terms of trying to craft through balls. While Gerard was at 23 years old, already solidly established as the heartbeat of his team, it was at a less creative level, more of a "Roy of the Rovers" type.

As an outsider (albeit a fan for the past 30 odd years) looking in, give the local lad a break. Give him time to develop under the new manager, and I think we'll see a more complete player by the end of the season.

Absolutely nothing at all that suggests he possesses something out of reach of your run of the mill relegation plodder? Nothing to suggest he is valued more highly by those in a position of power at Everton than he is by certain fans who carp on about him being 'shit'? Not one exhilarating turn and run? Not one fine strike? Not one perfectly weighted through ball? Not the captains armband he was entrusted with wearing less than a week ago?

Well, what about hearing or reading anything? Like the words of the one guy who is likely to be in charge throughout this three year spell that will seemingly sound the death knell for Barkley's Everton career?

“He is already, at his age, a key player for Everton, but he is still young. I am looking forward to working with him and making him a better player and that's really what we try to do."

"...he is a vital young player in the Everton team.."

"I like him as a player because he's good on the left and on the right and has a good view on the pitch"

"He is one of the key players, who is performing in an important position for the team, creating chances and scoring goals."

"The responsibility is his to take. He must put it on his shoulders because he is a very, very good player"

Doesn't sound like a player the manager foresees having a short future at the club unless he bucks his ideas up.

One more:

"I have talked to him and told him how I see Ross Barkley..."

Whilst not privy to that conversation, I'm pretty confident that, whatever Koeman said, the words "wearing a fucking West Brom shirt soon", probably didn't crop up.

The sad truth is that playing for Everton DOES hold back your chances to progress in the England set up... Sam or no Sam.

Myself, I am disappointed because playing for your country should be a goal of every player. The fact that it has become a sideshow is sad. The upside is 2 weeks more of Koeman and Finch Farm will keep Ross on the upswing and the future is Blue.

Captains armband.

Use the investment wisely, or spunk it away.

Step up, or Jog on.
Up to Ross, tick tock.

I also disagree that Sam doesn't like flair players. He has included several in his squad, all of which are more capable and more consistent than Ross.

Sam is right. This is the England national team. Potential is not enough, you have to prove that you belong week in and week out. This is a wake up call for Ross. He is starting to believe the hype out there when he should be working harder to achieve the next level.

This is a make or break year in many ways. Koeman does not suffer fools. If Ross cannot cut the mustard I cannot see him playing regularly in the Everton team.

It's good to be away from the England setup currently, and just focus on getting it right with Everton.

The next World Cup is ours. Allardyce's tactical know-how and his ability to recognise that we need the class of Henderson to destroy the world's best defences. I wouldn't let this clown pick strawberries.

As I said on another piece; since Puskas Magyars of the '50s, England has been most consistent with the disparity of 1966. Ross not being selected by England's biggest kick-and-run manager, seemingly appointed only because he is English, doesn't overly disappoint me.

Hopefully, after getting over the initial disappointment, Ross will latch on to what Ronald Koeman has to teach him. (Good post, John D, #105)

If I could give Ross a spoonful of something to help him become the best English footballer of this era it would come in a bottle labeled "Aggression".

I watched the Spurs v RS game yesterday — to me, Ross is a miles better footballer than any midfielder in that game including Delle Alli — but Delle Alli would fight with anyone. That would appeal to Sam.

Ross has to find his inner mongrel. Come on, Ross!

I also agree that the next week is much better spent in the company of Koeman than Allardyce. The other thing I've noticed is that, all of a sudden, Stones is now all the pundits first pick for centre-half. Strange that, isn't it?

Off topic, if Holgate was playing for Man Utd or one of the other Sky favourites, he'd have been in this squad – think Rashford etc! As for Ross, he's better off out of it.

He's a decent manager and probably the best English manager around at the moment. This squad is a disappointment... but let's see how he puts together the team. I don't think he will put round square pegs in a round hole just to get celeb players on the pitch – that is the litmus test.

As for Barkley's omission, actually I think this Allardyce looking at round pegs for round holes. I think Barkley's a great talent, but is he better than Rooney or Alli in that Number 10 slot? ...not so sure. And I would only pick two of them for the squad. Turns out Barkley is currently the square peg for now. He needs to displace Alli or Rooney, or both. I hope he does.

Nevertheless, since he has no intention of playing Ross in his team, it is far better that he leaves him at home, rather than wasting the lad's time on a tiring overseas trip, merely to be a frustrated arse on the bench for 90 minutes.

I think this decision by Allardyce to drop him will galvanise the home crowd to get behind him (Evertonians like to stick together); it could be the making of him.

Just out of interest, how come the caption at the top of this thread shows a picture of Leon Osman?

There's something in the psyche of some supporters which makes them mistrust naturally talented players. The apparent lack of effort, the risk taking, the aloofness etc This seems to grind on the meat and potatoes crowd. They want to see blood, sweat and tears not a Cruyff, nutmeg or a clever flick. They don't pay good money to watch a defender bring the ball out and look for an on the deck pass, no, they want row z.

Is it any coincidence that our three (now two) most talented players are also the most criticised ones? Lukaku = Lazy, Barkley = Brainless, Stones = Overrated. It's a matter of taste I suppose but give me a moment of magic to remember rather than watching 11 honest pros slog it out for 90 minutes of instantly forgettable football.

Ross will be fine. He has a brilliant future ahead of him, despite the doubters, and he has a manager who will help his development. Ross was ignored by ginger and left to his own devices by Roberto. At the age of 23 this is when his career can really take off.

There's a chance he might become this generations Le Tissier. From an Everton point of view that would suit me fine. Couldn't care less about England and if Ross does as much for us as Le Tiss did for Saints he'll be alright!

I agree with every word of that post above. Some so-called Evertonians would rather see Dogs of War than a truly gifted player. All teams need a balance that's fair enough and for every Ross Barkley you need a Gueye or Gareth Barry.

Barry Jones do you go the game? If so is 8 goals from the 36 games and a pass rate accuracy of 85 per cent not good enough for a offensive midfielder for you? They are Barkley's stats from last season.

Your comments about the England team are laughable (not that I give a shit about England) as Henry Winter just said Barkley's omission is ridiculous. Which central midfielder would you replace Barkley with and how much would they cost us, Barry?

"If Holgate was playing for Man Utd or one of the other Sky favourites, he'd have been in this squad "

Martin, that's a good comment. I've had a moan about Alli getting in the England squad after 3 starts for Spurs and Rashford also in the squad immediately. If they played for WBA would they get a look in? Or Watford? No chance.

Look at how Stones is now a great prospect yet someone who was a mistake waiting to happen three weeks ago when he was still here. All the dickheads on MotD etc. are saying he should be in the team, not just the squad.

Yet another reason why I couldn't give a flying one about England... sorry... London FC.

I think I became one of them last night. I just can't support a team that has Henderson but not Barkley, I just can't do it.

Len Skackleton perhaps the greatest Maverick to ever play for England only got a few caps for England, when a reporter asked one of the England selection committee why this was the case he replied "England play at Wembley not the fuckin' London Palladium".

In this case, Colin, IMO, Ross hasn't been picked because he is not playing well enough – even though there is an improvement in his game this season. By the way, Brian Labone was the first Everton player to be capped by England after the war, this was in 1962, I think.

You have no right to be annoyed by Evertonians who don't feel any affinity for England in a city with an ancestry that draws a significant proportion of its population from Ireland. We are all hardly likely to be flag waving royalists, are we?

Since it's usually the case that the chosen players don't gel as a team, it's difficult to see why the best individuals aren't chosen. There's no apparent end to this, so in reality we're best out of it, the whole thing being wasteful and too risky in terms of injury.

You are right. England have always preferred the 'grafters' and that is why they have always been a dull team. Even the team that won the World Cup was full of workmanlike players excluding the great Ray Wilson and Alan Ball of course.

Gradually over the years the standard of English players has dropped and we are pretty much like the Scotland team who historically have had some wonderful players like the great Jim Baxter to name but one.

The really talented players have been overlooked and they are doing the same to Barkley. Having said that, this really is a big season for Ross. I just hope he isn't one of the long list of young players with great potential who just fades away.

I could never understand why they weren't the England midfield for Mexico 1970 (Ball being the only regular and our White Pele Harvey only getting the occasional game, and Kendall never chosen). Mind you, the heat and altitude seemed to knacker Ball, hence his loss of form on returning. Maybe it was a blessing in disguise for Harvey and Kendall.

Irrespective of the other shite that Sam has picked, it's hard to argue a case for Ross being international class with the way he's been playing over the past 12 months.

Hope I'm wrong and I'm sure we will from time to time see some great play from Barkley but I don't see it happening consistently enough. Barkley's awareness and reading of the game seem lacking; I'd much rather he released the ball quickly or let fly as there are not too many who can strike a ball off either foot as him, rather than dithering or trying too much, which happens far to often.

As for being left out by England and the likes of Wallcott picked, it does seem harsh... so let's just hope it doesn't knock his confidence and he puts together a great run of form that benefits us.

I am afraid the under RM they were wasted years, even when he had poor games he was never taken out the team. I am sure after 12 months with Koeman he will either become the finished article we all believe he can be, or will be another promising youngster that never quite hit the heights. I really do hope its the former rather than the later.

I am sure Koeman will use this as motivation for Ross to improve and prove that he really is an England player. I remember only weeks into the job, Koeman said that Ross is no longer a kid, he is an England player and he needs to prove it every week.

But to overcome any manager/media bias and get into the England team on a regular basis he'll have to play out of his skin... if he can.

He might be a late developer and with some added maturity, bloom in his late 20s I hope so. Or he might stay more or less where he is... OK.

Will Koeman be prepared to wait 5 years... will he even be here in 5 years? Who can tell.

Not much left on the 'Potential' side of the ledger...Over to you Ross.

Hence, our improving under Koeman, to get into the Champions League sooner rather than later, will fit the talents of Ross (and others) better than any involvement with the mediocrity of the national set-up.

From this angle, Allardyce is doing Ross a favour. Ronald Koeman's management skills can no doubt handle any confidence issues that Ross may have.

What I meant was that these types of players were looked down upon by a large group of fans because the were considered 'big time charlies' or fancy dans. A moment of brilliance was met by groans and a mistaken pass or failed nutmeg was greeted by cheers.

In my opinion, a lot of English people dislike the showman, the standout athlete, the maverick etc... Spirit and effort is applauded, genius is for foreigners and cranks. Ronaldo in England was a diving, cheating little shit, now in Madrid he's a genius who is sorely missed in the English game.

(1) Realise that the play moves faster when you pass the ball. You are not going to score a "Newcastle" goal every time you get the ball. He will often pass when he seems to feel that there is nothing left for him to do, as if passing is a last resort or a weakness.

(2) Similarly, when you are in or around the penalty area, realise when your best chance is gone or that it may not actually present itself in that moment, and play in a colleague in a better position.

(3) Practice passing – links to (1) and (2) above. He mentions doing double sessions but he is probably as fit as most. He should do more work on perfecting the direction and weight of his passes, as they too often go to the opposition or give a colleague too much to do.

(4) Keep it simple in our half or just past the half way line. Too many dribbles put us in trouble when he loses the ball.

We don't want to see him become a drone, but he is good enough to control games. My above advice is simple and wouldn't take much mental or physical energy. If we want a team built around Ross, and I for one want to see that, then Ross must show that he is in a team. A bonus would be that others might stop being so greedy, like Rom and Kone were against Stoke, and we would get more goal rewards for our good play so far, and Ross would be the first name on the list for any England manager.

His work rate is poor as is his decision-making and for me (I really hope I'm wrong) he will never be the player we all hoped he would become. He lacks aggression and I fear he will never have that in him.

RK won't let the fans, the media or any body else sway his verdict, unlike his incompetent predecessor. We'll soon know if Ross is in his plans for the future, and that's the way it should be, let the manager decide.

Fuck 'em.

ps: I agree with others here that Barkley had a typical 'Barkley game' on Saturday – one minute flashes of genius, the next surrendering the ball cheaply to the opposition. His work rate and effort have massively improved however, and for now, that's good enough for me. No more standing around in the centre circle watching the match-at least we paid for our seats! Koeman will knock the lazy distribution out of him I'm sure.

The kid has great potential, and granted, he is putting more effort in... but effort won't make up for foresight, decision making and footballing intelligence.

He has a long way to go .. over to you Ross.

ps: the comment above about Gerard not being able to craft openings the way Ross can is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on here.

"Ross was poor on Saturday and has been for a while. People saying he was great were watching a very different game from the one I saw."

Completely agree. He is terrible. Gave the ball away so many times. Should he be on Everton's bench?

1) He was touted from an early age as the next Rooney but then had a career threatening injury. Result = delay in his development.

2) Broke through under Moyes and then was promptly dropped and forgotten. Result - loss of confidence.

3) Had a cracking first (half at least) season under Martinez who then went into overdrive with his hyperbole and left the lad to his own devices. Ross didn't progress under Martinez, in fact he went backwards.

So, Ross isn't the finished product, far from it but under Koeman he has a chance to become the player some of us think he can be.

I forgot to mention the last two England managers. Roy publicly, and very vociferously, had a go at Ross on at least two occasions topping it off by not giving him even a minutes play at the euros. And now fat Sam has dropped him altogether. This is hardly going to help his confidence when he sees bang average players like Henderson get into the team. If I was Ross I'd tell Sam to do one and concentrate on Everton.

I don't expect any players to read this forum as too much is critical without being helpful, but if anyone can see what Ross needs in a holistic way it will be RK and his staff. I believe we are seeing improvements already in Ross's play and this can only be down to the new regime. He will get better without a doubt and I for one will never write him off as a WBA player for the future, for example. Even if he never becomes the player he should become I would always have him in an Everton team.

To give may age away, I loved watching Duncan McKenzie. Some of his magical play was pure circus and contributed nothing to the game, but it was a delight to watch. Ross has had to get over bigger traumas than being left out of an England squad. It will just anger him and make him more determined.

Probably better to just get his head down and prove himself by having his best ever season for Everton I'd say.

Regardless of Ross getting a look in how the fuck do Lallana and Henderson even get considered.

The centre half pairing will be interesting. Will fat Sam go for the Smalling/ Cahill combo that was so poor at the Euro's? Or will he put his trust in Stones/Jags?

If he goes for the latter, prepare for a media witch hunt of our old Jags if any mistakes are made. Stones will be absolved now he is playing for the media darlings of Man City.

Dave Speed, I agree that Ross finally has a manager who can properly develop and channel his talents.

I thought the Messiah divided opinion more than anyone in history.

Trust Koeman to keep his head in place though.

Baffled why headless-chicken Lallana is still being picked.

Regarding (146), I think most fans appreciate Mavericks as long as there is an end product, showboating just for the sake of it, while good to watch, goes over most fans head.

You certainly have a point with Ronaldo, I watched him at Goodison for the Portugese U21s and I just loved the way he played, skillful and always attacking the goal, yet he was derided by the Merseyside fans for a great performance, he was an absolute brilliant player who got better and better and became one of the best players in the world, if not the best. The only thing he can be disliked for is being in love with himself, a bit sickening that.

Sick for England seeing Henderson et al;

Sick for Ross – as it has to knock confidence and as with the boo boys this can only knock the potential of a world class player developing at EFC.

There was a reason BBC made Ross MotM – shots, chances created and key passes.

There is no one of his age in the Premier League that is making as many chances, attracting the opposition defence and scoring as many goals as him ...

He is already not potential but delivering. With RK and Ross working hard on all parts of his game and fitness, we are going to see even more productivity out of him and eventually have a great player on our hands.

Get behind our boy!!!

His best course of action is to get his head down and do his job...better than he's ever done it before. Big Sam will, baring a miracle be gone in 2, maybe 4 yrs. Ross should be at his peak...maybe.

Because he's shite - a fist-punching bluffer and a huffer and puffer.

Kopite: "He'd run through a wall Hendo"

True, because he doesn't have the skill to chip a ball over it.

His middle name is 'flatters to deceive' (I know, an odd name yet somehow not as weird as 'Jordan')

He's basically a Stevie G tribute act.

"Yeah but he's strong like."

Pfft! So was Precious McKenzie but you wouldn't want him in your midfield.

So fuck 'big' Sam and England and Henderson and Stevie G and 'JT' and Terry Butcher* etc etc.

The idea that I'd ever root for these twats because I happen to have been born on the same Island is (for me) fucking nuts.

On the pitch, I wish them nothing but horrible luck.

* What have I got against Terry Butcher?

Watch this superb docco from last week (can't wait for part 2)

Link

I echo the same thoughts on this thread: he doesn't play, he can't get injured.

Allardyce has the same problem all England managers have. Overrated English players. If England were a PL side they would be mid table at best. I'm sure if Allardyce could he would sell half of them and buy better foreign players. But that's the downside of international football. You have the players you have. The failures of the past mixed with the young flavours of the month the media wants picked.

We are doing it now with Barkley. He's a decent enough player and he certainly has his moments but he's no world beater. He has a tendency to be indecisive and dwell on the ball. He loses it in crucial areas and puts the side under pressure. He slows down quick counter attacks because he can't make up his mind fast enough to pass the ball.

Look at some of the players we've had in the past. Kendall, Ball, Reid, Bracewell, Arteta, Cahill, etc. I'd swap him for any of them.

Maybe this will be a wake up call him. He has the talent but he seriously needs to up his game if he doesn't want to be left behind.

Ross has got an England cap but there will.be no medals forthcoming there. He can live his dreams at Everton. Win medals, become a legend and get rich beyond his wildest dreams. England caps became a worthless currency many years ago.

Unfortunately, one of the by-products of the Sky money is that young players seem to give significantly less fucks about playing for England than a generation ago. If anything, it just gives their agent the opportunity to leverage a pay rise from the club. And, maybe because of that, the fans give even less fucks than the players. In fact, we're delighted when they don't get a call-up because there's less chance of them getting injured or getting tapped up by a Citteh player.

Malcolm McDonald has spoken of his shoddy treatment by Revie, Who told him that he was only in the squad because of pressure from the media. He speaks of how Alan Ball and others fed him the ball and he got 5 goals in a game but it wasn't enough to keep him in the squad.

Probably 1969 for me, I remember chanting along to 'Joe, Joe, Mexico!' chants at Goodison, hoping Joe Royle would get the nod over Jeff Astle from 'Elocution' Alf Ramsey for the world cup finals in 1970.

Joe didn't get the nod, so when Astle missed that sitter against Brazil, I was not miserable but felt happy.

Fuck the flag, I had discovered...schadenfreude

I couldn't tell anyone of course, but Jeff had fucked up the 68 cup final for me and kept Royle out of the world cup finals, so in my 11 year old mind it was 'fuck him, fuck them'.

Also in 1970, Gordon West taught me that blind patriotism wasn't the only option and that you could do what you wanted rather than what the herd expected.

Remember Gordon chose not to go to the finals simply saying '"I'd rather stay at home with the family"

Still makes sense to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KOYSdtGYMQ

Same age as Eugene, but I admit I wanted us to win in Mexico - sure Keith Newton and labby? were there, although I too hated Astle for the Cup winner.

Bob Latchford played for England 12 times mate. Scoring 5 goals... just sayin', like.

Jagielka is better than Cahill and Smalling despite his age.

But England can carry on picking players lauded because of club and corporate bias. There seems to be some obligation to have Arsenal, United, RS and Spurs players in there however average they are.

Everton first.

Of course he always wants to go it alone and the lack of quick decision making that you mention leads to hesitancy and him too often being crowded out or making the wrong pass at the wrong time. Naturally there are also times when he does very good things!

Latch should have got a lot more than 12 caps though!

This lack of consistency was not helped by the previous mismanagement, but now we can fully anticipate RK getting the full ability out of him. I would not want someone of Allardyce's mediocrity anywhere near him or indeed any other Everton player of talent.

How many UK players are wanted or playing for top foreign clubs? Let's face it, they're just not very good, they prove it in every big tournament.

The media keep telling us how good player (a) is, or how brilliant player (b) is, but they would do, wouldn't they.

Ross should have been dragged off long before he was. He had some decent moments but so would most given the opportunity.

We know he had an awful injury some time back and it probably still gives him nightmares, he is very lucky to be still playing. But, if he wants to stay at the top, he has to develop good habits.

This season could be the last chance saloon; if he doesn't up his game to a level of consistency that sees him as a first choice player on the team sheet (barring injuries), he could find himself having to tackle playing for Sunderland, etc for a far less reward — if Koeman is going to realise his ideal project!

Having said that, if we do not have some form of foundation based upon organisation, and in particular, keeping possession, we will not witness those moments (from our team anyway). I have watched Ball, Kendall and Harvey numerous times in the flesh in the past. Martin Dobson was also a hero of mine, very "Brooking" like in his game.

All of these players had something in common. They rarely gave the ball away needlessly or got caught in possession. Colin, it is not all about graft (but Ross could improve that anyway), it is about turning over possession. How many times do you see players like Xavi, Iniesta, Riquelme, Valderamma, give the ball away or get dispossessed?

Ross continues to make poor decisions when in possession, either getting caught on the ball or taking the wrong option. This is what he must improve. Coaches in the game today hate to turn over the ball cheaply. Players have to have a consistent end product, especially in the role of number 10. It is absolutely vital.

Ross ends up running into a cul-de-sac with the only option being to turn back. He loses it a lot, and yes sometimes he seems to be in 2 or 3 minds before handing over possession, but too often the options in front of him are poor.

No-one is denying that Ross is not a talent, but he still needs to up his game to be the player he can be. Arsene Wenger used to say that many midfield/attacking players in the league are similar in terms of technical ability, but the great players always do the right thing at the right time. This is what Ross needs to work on.

I was at Goodison for the first time in years and have to say that Ross just couldn't get it together. Dribbles and losing the ball, passes astray etc.. his confidence drained as the game went on, I thought RK might take him off at half time, when he was substituted he looked absolutely downhearted as he trudged off. He knew it was one of those days when he tried but never succeeded in front of the new England manager. I think he also knew he had not done enough to stake a claim to a place in the squad.

Now, I hope RK takes him aside and puts an arm around him and encourages him to play with confidence. It will make a better player of him. We all know what he can do, but at the moment he is struggling when things don't go right. Its ALL down to confidence and belief, thank goodness he has RK as manager.

It's all about opinions I guess and I really hope that I am proved well and truly wrong. Every club loves a local hero and I'd love it if Ross turned out to be ours.

The bottom line for me is that NOW it's time for him to deliver. And for all Koeman's generous words I don't for a minute think he will hesitate to replace him or anyone else who is under-performing.

All of last season and the start of this, Ross was not fit enough. As for a footballing brain... Ross is a dunce.

Neither do I.

On a forum containing opinion, conjecture, speculation, memory and fact, I can say with absolute certainty that that post is 100% bollocks.

Strange. I don't recall describing a player. I thought I just asked you... as someone who stated they had not seen one thing in Barkley's career thus far to suggest Everton would not look to offload him within three years to 'the likes of West Brom'...to clarify that you hadn't clocked even a solitary moment of class, a sole game changing action, or come across a single soundbite emanating from the club that might point to them (being the only people whose opinion matters in this 'he'll be ejected from Everton before Beattie the hamster ends up in an empty Haribo bag and hurled in the bin' equation) actually holding the player in higher regard than you seem to. 

As an aside, I've got to say, one of my pet hates is someone going to great pains to unnecessarily pan a player and paint a piss poor picture of their future prospects, before following up with "I really hope that I'm proved wrong and he goes on to have great success". It's utterly pointless and rings resoundingly hollow.

It's like the crazed photographer in The Omen obsessively trying to convince Robert Thorn that his son is most certainly the anti-christ reborn, whose actions will defo lead to the total ruination of mankind and the entire earth being covered in flaming rivers of blood, unless he renders the little fucker dead by ramming seven mystical daggers in mapped out parts of his body, suddenly shouting after the boys dad as he departs to do the deed... "I'd be delighted if I've got my wires crossed like, and the extent of the little scamps evil amounts to nothing more than scrawling crude, blocky, cocks and ballsacks on his minty etch-a-sketch. Honestly, nothing would please me more mate. I'd be chuffed to bits. It's just that..err...i've kind of backed myself into a corner now and infanticide is probably the more palatable outcome at this point. Oh, I nearly forgot...make sure you bury those blades to the fucking hilt, by the way!"

I was at the match on Saturday, and my impression was that Ross was trying very hard, did some very good things, and a few not so good.
Watching the recorded highlights again this morning, he made himself available all the time, even if some things did not come off. I believe this is where anyone who wasn't at the game, or only saw the stop start of a dodgy stream, or sanitized MOTD highlights may think he was head and shoulders MOM - as the BBC did.

For my money, he wasn't, he was good, but I would put him behind Holgate, Barry and Mirallas in the pecking order. Another 'colossus' according to the BBC was Williams, who was admirable in defence, but some passes were Funes Mori like in their distance from their target.

What does impress me is that Ross is looking to be involved all the time and do something, unlike the tippy tappy interchanges with McCarthy, or hiding, like he was last season.

Lets just thank our lucky stars that 'ol fat head has carried right on in the Woy mould, and have Ross chomping at the bit, to the benefit of Everton, and not our national disgrace.

As for Henderson, every red I know doesn't rate him and can't believe he's their captain.

I gave up being remotely arsed about England after Rooney had obviously been tapped during Euro 2004, and the fact we've lost other quality players over the years as soon as they become England regulars. When the national side loses it certainly doesn't hurt me.

Looks like it's another case of not how well you are playing, but which team you play for.

Now we know why Clough never got the England job.

He was talking to Henry Winter about the Barkley snub, and Winter said that he spent the day with Ross on Friday for an interview. Supposedly he was fully expecting a call-up to the squad and Winter said he spoke to him after the announcement and he was absolutely devastated.

Christine, Stan, I also concur with your comments about confidence. That is why the faith of the coach is paramount. Ross needs to be hungry and involved all of the time and have the confidence to put the mistakes behind him and learn from them. I think that Koeman may be a major influence on Ross in this regard.

Regarding mistakes, some mistakes that players make are just random errors, not something to learn from necessarily. All players make them, and in the long run they're not a big deal. I'm sure Koeman will instill this notion into the players, because it helps them play with more freedom (on top of the organisation and discipline), freedom from undue fear of trying things with flair. This is especially important for players like Ross with unusual ball skills.

They don't represent my country and the players certainly don't represent the best we have to offer. Lallana, Henderson, Walcott, Sturridge and Sterling... I'm laughing already.

Allardyce is clueless and his appointment shows the FA are gutless. they have so called appointed him to create fight in the team. personally I would have dropped the entire tean with the exception of rose.

How many arses on seats will Allardyce bring, I suggest none. Here's hoping we don't even qualify for the finals to spare us another summer of humiliation. I also suggest that Sllardyce has only picked jags from guilt.

Let's face it, Allardyce has been taking bribes since hes been into football and I'm sure lavish treatment from the other clubs will buy their players a place in his team. England are a joke and if all the Blues who usually go to their games boycott that shit. maybe the FA will realise that empty seats don't pay the bills. Bring back Graham Taylor.

Continued selection of the Spurs failures is disappointing as on his day Ross can stand head and shoulders above him. But we haven't seen Ross on his day for half a season, from what I saw on Saturday at Goodison he just couldn't get it all together. Where does he need to concentrate a little more?

1. Workrate: He is a creative midfielder, but he has to work the middle more, back track and tackle. He doesn't look hungry or have fight. Is this attitude or coaching?

2. Spark and Command: He should be stepping out of his shell more, demanding and influencing more. Telling others what he wants from them.

3. Arrogance: Get his head up, get over mistakes and drive. His ability is brilliant, his confidence is low, self belief is paramount..

He just needs to say... "Fuck it.. I'll show fat Sam how good I can be"

as the Nike advert said..

"Just do it"

We know he can.