Keane jumps into McCarthy controversy

In his day, he was nails... but he's in cuckoo land if he expects football clubs to allow the international arena to dictate when a player goes into a competitive match.

I've just watched Keane make another arse of himself on Sky; what part of "not fit" does he not understand. How does he expect a player who hasn't played for his own club to just rock up to an international game to be told to go home.

On a similar note, international football is like watching paint dry. It's shite and has very little following anymore.

It may piss some Evertonians off hearing his comments but maybe because it's bit too close to the truth for some to stomach?

There's a huge dose of realism needed at our club before we all start getting our hopes up; as much as I want to hate Roy Keane for the disrespectful digs, he's ultimately right!

He's right, Everton haven't won anything for decades and getting knocked out of the League Cup by Norwich was farcical if that is one of only 2 trophies that are realistic.

Also, playing lots of club games would mean we're doing something right.

Still, early days with Koeman.

If McCarthy isn't medically fit to play for Everton, how can he pass a medical to play for his country?

I don't know if there is a different process to assess players medically but it can't be that different, dependent on the type of injury.

I don't have an issue with Keane or any other international manager but it's always this Republic of Ireland set up and him who has the problem.

He went on a rant about our lack of trophies, again nothing to do with him. Then went on about Gibson's fitness with us, he had a long list of injuries from before he joined us... in the same team as Keane played.

I'm a fan of Keane but today he really annoyed me and should really think about what he says before he speaks because he was wrong on just about everything he said today.

It's got all messy between club and country when it shouldn't have.

The mere mention of Darron Gibson in his injury argument completely voided it. Darron Gibson is a Grade A sick note and it wasn't just at Everton, it was whilst he was a team mate of Keane's at Man Utd.

Keane had 5 hamstring injuries in 18 months – sorry ROI guys. We know he's a talisman and all that, but don't confuse this "hardman" with being someone who played through pain – he clearly didn't.

Just because he has won things as a player does not excuse his lack of manners. As a manager, he won the Championship with Sunderland. He was also manager when Everton put seven past them, and said it was one of his lowest points in football.

He is disrespectful to our club so fuck him.

In 2001, prior to the two-legged World Cup play-off games against Iran, the second of which Keane missed and was accused of feigning injury for, this was in the Irish Independent:

Republic of Ireland manager Mick McCarthy has named his team for tomorrow's first leg of the World Cup 2002 play-off against Iran at Lansdowne Road and to the delight of the Irish supporters, Roy Keane will start. Although Keane has missed the last five games for his club Manchester United, the Irish captain was determined to regain fitness in time for the two vital play-off matches with Iran.

However, Keane did admit today that he is not completely happy with his damaged knee but that he has the blessing of United boss Alex Ferguson to play. "I'm more than willing to give it a go and see how it is. Mick wants me to play and Sir Alex Ferguson has been fine about it. I was trying to get fit for the Liverpool match but it just came a little bit too early for me and the medical people said the knee wasn't right. I wouldn't deliberately miss any United games because they are all important but the knee has improved this week," he insisted.

"Some days it is better than others and in the last week or so it has settled down a bit although I'm still not too happy with it. I don't want to go into details about what's wrong but I've been working in the gym and managed a couple of training sessions. Now I need a game or two to see how it goes. A couple of games won't make the injury any worse. If there is a reaction after Saturday then we'll have to see, maybe go back to the specialist and see where we go from there, but now I need to play and we all know how important this game is," added the Irish captain.

Is it possible to be romantic and accurate, I wonder?

Nails?

“The hardest part of Roy's body is his tongue,'' A Ferguson

"I used to stay away from [Duncan Ferguson]". Keane had the reputation, the Everton striker was the real deal.

Have a word Dunc, if you can find him.

Koeman's argument, meanwhile, is weakened by the fact that he played him at City, albeit only off the bench, which plays right into O'Neill's and Keane's hands.

But Keane is also being disingenuous here (as well as being a dick for the needless dig about our lack of recent success) conflating the fitness record of the past regime with this one and, where Gibson is concerned, he very conveniently forgets that the reason why he only cost Everton 𧺬k from his beloved United is because he couldn't stay fit at Old Trafford.

The simple fact is that Ireland's staff should have known McCarthy wasn't ready. He had just 3 training sessions (all of them at the Irish camp, it should be noted) following a 5-week layoff so there's no way he should have played two games in a week. I'm no physio but that just seems like common sense to me.

The misty eyed romanticism over Roy Hard Man Keane makes me laugh – he's an obnoxious hypocrite. Darron Gibson? He spent half his time at Man Utd on the physio's table – all of a sudden, it's an Everton issue?

Keane is trying to make out that McCarthy and Everton are soft? Maybe he needs to see that McCarthy has pretty much ended up destroyed because McCarthy played too soon after being injured.

Listen, ROI/Keane fans – I understand that its difficult to give up the notion that Roy Keane is the most honourable man to ever play the game... quite simply, he isn't.

He is self-serving and will happily run our players into the ground to get through the qualifiers; fair enough, Koeman would probably do the same. But stop trying to be something you ain't.

People confuse straight talking with arrogance.

Did Koeman actually blame ROI for the hamstring injury? Or were his comments about ''killing him" before that injury?

Either way, Keane has absolutely no need to stir it up and mock Everton's recent underachievement. He just comes across as a provocative twat.

Feel free to explain his continued issues with hamstring injuries? Surely he needed to man-up and play through them... 5 spells in 18 months.

I'm not defending what Keane said today; I've already said that it's bullshit, and not for the first time.

I can't explain his hamstring injuries as I know nothing of them. In fact I'd question your information.

What I said to you was: How would you know what pain he has or hasn't played through?

And with the romanticism stuff. Nobody else is doing it. Keane was what he was. If you remember him differently then fine. And there is zero evidence that McCarthy's hamstring is anything to do with playing for Ireland. I think everyone, other than you accepts that as he played for Everton prior to getting the injury.

To talk about players being tough, yeh right – you walked out on your country over a bumpy training pitch.

Go back to your cabin where your attitude and beard belongs.

It's an honour to play for your country but it's the Club that pay the wages and pay the price when lads like MacCarthy come back knackered; whilst the like of Keane are back home putting their feet up or appearing on TV to earn a few quid and bore us rigid with their "insightful" BS.

Funny how we don't seem to have similar issues with other players away with other countries.

Fact is, Lyndon summed it up by attributing blame to both sides. Ireland should have handled him better when he was coming back from from injury. Two full games was unfair on the player & the club. Two 45 mins appearances and the fuss would never have arisen.

I totally see the club's point of view as they are paying his salary. But clubs do need to release players for international duty, even if it doesn't suit their own preferences.

I feel sorry for the player, caught up between two sides neither of which he wants to let down. Is he injured or following the club's clear wishes? Dunno.

Joe @8 (a fellow Corkman) summed it up well. Both sides should be a bit more professional and sort it out without the media circus. Dowcha Boy!

This is just from 2002 till he left united in 2005:

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/players/339/roy_keane_injury.html

Keane even admitted that he changed his game in order to avoid the frequent injuries he was suffering.

So – all this nonsense about players being soft etc – unless he was made of different stuff, then he can just shush. McCarthy is a tough lad and he's suffered as a result of manning up. Keane is just an idiot.

He was a good player – that's about it. As a man he's a prat.

This could be true Peter; to be honest I don't know. What I do know is that no-one – no matter how 'hard' – can play through a hamstring injury without a seriously dodgy injection.

And for the record; I'm Irish but Keane the man is no saint of mine. The footballer however; I do wish he played for Everton in his pomp.

The other side seem awfully annoyed though.

Ah well, international break is the best craic on ToffeeWeb. I somehow think Sky are behind it all.

Funny he can't remember when we last won a trophy. He played against us in that cup final.

How can he berate players for withdrawing from an international squad when he famously walked out on his Irish team because of the facilities?

McGeady was awful for us. Coleman hasn't been a great Everton player for years, in truth. McCarthy was good in his first season but hasn't been since.

Sorry, Chris, I should have been clearer. What I meant was that by Koeman playing him, Keane and O'Neill can point and say, "but you're over-working him, too!" So, in that sense, it plays into their hands.

I agree that there is a difference between deploying a player working his way back to fitness off the bench and throwing him into two starts in less than a week.

And ultimately, of course, Everton pay his wages – not Roy bloody Keane and Martin O'Neill – so, if there is a decision to be made, it should rest at Finch Farm.

He admitted in his book that he went out to get revenge and doesn't regret it one bit. I imagine it happens a lot. Difference is Keane admitted it and got charged by the FA. I doubt he wished his career be ended by it.

It's not funny that he can't remember, it's depressing. Why would he remember the '95 Cup Final defeat considering what he's won since? It's depressing that we all remember it so well.

I'd also have to disagree on your view on Coleman, not that it's important.

It's one of (football's) eternal conflicts: international call-ups of (alleged) injured players and club versus country.

Had Jimmy Mac been out injured for Everton a few weeks before the last international call up? Yes.

Was it best practice to then play him in close-on two full games in less than a week for Ireland? Probably not.

Did Koeman then select him for Everton on his return? Yes, as a 30-minute sub.

Did James then get injured whilst back at Everton, both training and playing? Yes.

Can it be categorically stated that his playing time with Ireland contributed to the new injury set back? Probably not, but most reasonable observers would not totally disregard it either.

Did Koeman make passing reference to James's workload with Ireland as a contributing factor to his latest injury? Yes.

Did Koeman go off on one? No.

Did both Martin O'Neill and now Roy Keane go off on one, against both Koeman and Everton, over the matter? Most definitely, yes.

Did Koeman escalate, or attempt to deflect and diffuse the situation when last asked in a press conference? Deflect and diffuse.

Given the most recent comments from all sides, who has been proven correct in his latest evaluation of James's fitness to go out on International duty, MoN or Koeman? Koeman.

Enough already!

As for the rest, who gives a flying tatty for what the ex-Sunderland manager (who quit following a 4-1 home defeat to Bolton, with the team in 18th place in the Premier League), ex-Ipswich manager (where he never challenged for promotion, but quit them shortly after leading them to 21st place in the Championship), ex-assistant manager to Paul Lambert at Villa, now token assistant manager to the RoI, spouts in a rambling stream of consciousness...?

These players (maybe Coleman, but he's been rubbish lately) would not play for a top team. Let other teams deal with the chuckle brothers O'Neill and Keane.

Seamus shows great form for Ireland – more so than for EFC at the moment. What is Keane's problem? What a nut-job!

From Reuters 14th October

"When James came back from Ireland the message from Everton's medical staff was that he was massively overloaded. I don't do this to my players at Everton because you get injuries again," Koeman told British media.

McCarthy was on the sidelines for five weeks with a groin injury but played in Ireland's matches against Georgia and Moldova earlier this month.

Koeman acknowledged McCarthy was put in a difficult position when asked to determine his own fitness for the international fixtures and also urged Ireland manager Martin O'Neill to handle his players more sensibly.

"If you leave it up to the player to decide then he is in a difficult situation... You hope something like this would be solved by the understanding of the doctor of the Ireland team or the manager of the Ireland team," the Dutchman added.

"I like to have a lot of international players because it is a very good experience for every player. But sometimes, in several cases in fact, you like to have a little bit more understanding for a player... You are killing the player."

Fifth-placed Everton travel to Premier League leaders Manchester City on Saturday.

Hopefully by next summer, it'll only be Seamus that he'll have to worry about with regards to Everton.

Let me remind you... twat.

For all those who say "who cares about International football?", it's fairly clear, they'll be at various stadiums next weekend. The fact that so many of you can't identify with England isn't really relevant.

Tony Kost, Roy Keane is two words.

"No Irish should apply" is alive and well here – if not, thankfully in Goodison Park which I have been attending since 1960.

If we're going down that route, then you got battered 7-1 at Everton as Sunderland manager. Ya tit.

2002 was undoubtedly their best chance to win a trophy. Decent team in a very open tournament.

What did Roy "The Patriot" Keane do again?

Fuckin' selfish, arrogant twat. Let's hear his apologists defend his actions...

One of the shitest managers of recent times who was so far out of his depth on the touch line that it was embarrassing.

Even his punditry is on a par with Michael Owen's at times.

Just ignore the irrelevant has-been.

As an Irishman I can't wait to see the back of him in the Irish set-up. God knows he failed as a manager and along with O'Neill, is serving up some of the worst football I have seen in my life.

McCarthy is injured, for heavens sake, O'Neill and Keane, get over it and move on. You should be concentrating on the match against Austria not talking about players that are unavailable.

After that though, he realised that RVN was right and he won't be the one hobbling around in old age.

Ya see, Roy's a walking contradiction. Loads of stuff to pull him up on rather thaN shite like his managerial career, Everton beating him in the Cup 20 years ago etc.

And, as for the Saipan brigade, it's been done to death, even on ToffeeWeb, and very recently. The facts seem an inconvenience.

Sometimes I find myself agreeing with his assessment and honesty regards the game and other times I think to myself that he does come out with some crap.

Today, Roy Keane clearly demonstrated why he has failed in his quest to be a football manager.

Total disrespect for Koeman (I couldn't care less about Koeman), I think he said, and Everton should be happy at players being overloaded is quite honestly pathetic.

Roy Keane and Martin O'Neill should both wise up.

This is fine, but he should stick to talking about himself and shut the fuck up about our club.

Maybe he should get a Twitter account so his fanboys can go lick his arse and lap up his hard-lad sound bites, while the rest of us can ignore the deluded fuckwit.

The former Manchester United "hard man". That makes me laugh. He wouldn't go near Big Dunc, a man who didn't commit nasty fouls to deliberately hurt a fellow professional in a snidey way; he just belted them, which – although I'm not condoning violence – is more of a mans way than hiding behind sly fouls.

He held a grudge for a year (a whole year in fact that Keane was 'injured' and couldn't play for his country) then deliberately went out to destroy a player by slyly going for his knee: I'm sure a 'hard man' would have confronted him in the tunnel.

Total scumbag in my opinion, and he wouldn't have won anything if it wasn't for Giggs, Neville, Scholes, Sheringham, Pallister, McClair etc. He hasn't done very well as a manager the prick.

Do any good teams with aspirations to make an impact in Europe have Irish players? No.

First England vs Scotland game in a while coming up with no Everton players in the Scotland team. I saw that as a positive, we don't have any more McFaddens, but really we do, they just didn't want to play for Scotland. England are terrible too obviously and are at the same level or worse.

I've got heritage from all these countries but they're shit football nations now. We need winning footballers for Everton not UK mediocrities.

I'd trade all the insufficient local / UK / RoI players for an international bunch who won us something in a heartbeat. The key is getting the right mercenaries. That's football in 2016.

You're correct: Saddam Hussein is two words.

We could just let Gibson go then see how many games he plays for them if he's always injured for us. He is just a gobshite.

Roy was a good player for his time, but sadly couldn't cut the mustard as a coach due to being selfish and lacking social skills.

Read Clough's book and O'Neill had an inflated ego in 1978 – nothings changed there then.

And international games are now pre-historic.

He should do well to remember the so-called glory days of the Republic are long gone and date back longer than 1995.

Take a look at their latest squad and Everton is as good as they get.

We didn't hear a word from Keane or O'Neill when Gibson was crashing cars into fucking petrol pumps pissed when he should have been trying to stick to the programme the club had given him to get himself fit, Roy!

Total hypocrite.

I can criticise us for our prolonged lack of silverware because, like you fellow supporters, I run blue blood through me and have the scars to show. No non-Evertonian should be given any leeway when they effectively mock us.

Grow a pair, you apologists for Keane, and realise what a pathetic moron he is to get at us as a club, because the club have taken a decision (rightly or wrongly) against his beloved ROI (who he left the World Cup for once upon a time)!

McCarthy and Coleman have played for RoI, even when they haven't played the previous Saturday for Everton.

As for his comments about Gibson and his injuries at club level, didn't he miss a full season, after doing his cruciate on international duty? Zip it, Roy.

First class footballer, third class human being.

Eugene Ruane's comment about him on the other McCarthy thread nails it perfectly. Check it out if you like.

Keane, what an absolute whopper. A first class shithouse. And a shit manager.

He looks like a vagrant. Fuck off and have a shave, you tramp.

Keane not happy that Koeman was right. The man sent home from a World Cup as a captain shows who he cares about and the country have him back as assistant manager.

The man humiliates Everton FC and some on here think he is spot on.

Everton pays McCarthy's wages and that's where his first loyalty has to be.

I was living in Nottingham when he was playing for them as a youngster and, believe me, he got more smacks and hidings in night clubs and pubs than most of us see in a lifetime. He thought he was Billy Big Balls then and nothing has changed.

That tackle on AIH was a cowards tackle, they always cut it off on the TV as he starts to walk away, but if you run it through past that, he actually spits on AIH.

He's a gobshite.

Perfect for sending along to press conferences when you can't be arsed sending yourself. Up. Again.

Link

The 'f'korrf' is strong with this one.

The story about Keane keeping hold of his 'company car' for as long as he possibly could after leaving Man Utd and then ragging the arse out of it for all it was worth, before returning it, as some sort of 'pay back' no one else gave a fuck about, pretty much sums him up. As do the words he ended his anecdote with: "Every little victory counts".

Course they do, Roy.

May as well have gone full on Partridge and wrapped it up with: "Needless to say, I had the last laugh".

Sky Sports News lapped it up as per, and Roy the boy got his TV time.

I've never liked Roy Keane though as a player, a manager or a pundit.

Just writing some wrongs of the panto villain. I must say I enjoyed the thread.

Just to point out that Keane said Everton is a great club yesterday.

I watched Everton on Saturday, and genuinely felt that 3 or 4, of the players couldn't wait to get off the pitch well before the game ended. I honestly hope Koeman, was saying the same things that Keane has said about our players because it's true, we are nowhere near fucking tough enough.

Mourinho is now questioning a couple of Man Utd players, for the same reason, because to be a winner, you have got to be mentally tough!

The very fact that some fans excuse him for his Japanese World Cup fiasco is a joke. The man lacks emotional intelligence on the most basic of levels.

I just find that these threads deteriorate into childish name-calling and the accuracy of Keane's past often gets lost.

If Southgate or any other international manager came out with a rant like Keane's it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. He's clearly trying to achieve something with his comments, not sure what though.

People get very wound up. I'd imagine Koeman has more sense.

Personally, I would always vote ‘NO' no matter how good a player he had been. Hard and fair like Peter Reid, not hard and foul like Roy Keane.

He would roast the ears off a good few of these underperforming players. Some of them are just going through the motions, this is what Koeman is trying to change and he will. I said weeks ago, if they don't play as Koeman expects them to, he will move them on, if he can.

Life is full of contradictions because, although I'm not usually one for stats, I've just read one on the net which was quite staggering. I don't know if it was based on just EPL games but, if it was, then Liverpool as a team have collectively ran over 100 km, more than Everton after 10 league games.

Not only are we not tough enough, it seems like we are fucking lazy bastards too!

With certain jobs comes responsibility and humility. Keane has neither and is a narcissist with sociopathic tendencies.

This can be said of pretty much most of the current team – and therein lies our problems.

Are you for real, did you not see the game at Chelsea? I think some people really ought to think before making crass comments

I'm certainly for real Mick, 5-0 drubbing or not.

However, I see how you have taken my comment – McCarthy is not good enough, but the rest are? Forgive me. I should have clarified

McCarthy is not good enough for EFC and neither are most of the current EFC players – Chelsea result, or no Chelsea result.

But to say he's not good enough for a mid-table side, after his work in helping Wigan lift the FA Cup is ridiculous. How may of our current squad have won anything? Barry from the bench at Man City and that's about it.

I'm not disputing his achievement with Wigan, nor am I comparing winners medals in the squad.

McCarthy is simply not good enough for Everton. That is my opinion stated. It is neither crass nor ridiculous, only opinion. Opinion backed-up by two years of rubbish performances and no medals (for EFC).

I'm not singling just McCarthy either – as my original post stated – it applies to the majority of the squad and THAT is why we are a mid-table team.

Not a bad article.

What has Everton's trophy hall got to do with the McCarthy issue Keane? A lot to say and nothing to show as a manager. Bellend – move on folks.

It might surprise people who have not read the book to hear that one of Keane's expressed regrets for how his playing career ended is that he did not finish up at Everton. Describing them as "a top club", they were one of four teams (Real Madrid, Celtic and Bolton the others) keen to recruit the Corkman after Alex Ferguson decided his time at Old Trafford was up.

"Why didn't I go to Everton?" he wonders. He "liked" David Moyes, their manager. Their chairman Bill Kenwright was "very good with Michael (Kennedy) in the negotiations". He "knew that there were good fitness people there." Everton were offering him more money than Celtic. Had he gone, he believes it's possible he could have played for "two or three years" longer.