Koeman livid as Everton throw away cup hopes

Saturday 7 January 2017  221 Comments  [Jump to last]

Ronald Koeman was visibly angry with Everton's meek exit from the FA Cup this afternoon, a result that ends the club's quest to end a 22-year trophy drought and focuses all attention on trying to bridge the yawning gap to the top six over the second half of the season.

The Blues threw away the lead just three minutes after Romelu Lukaku had pressed home their dominance when he converted Gerard Deulofeu's cross in the 63rd minute.

Ahmed Musa scored a quick double to turn the match on its head and Everton's limp response in the final 20 minutes wasn't enough to rescue the tie and force a replay.

After the game, the manager didn't hide his displeasure at the way his players tossed away a precious advantage and he seemed to challenge the club as a whole to start working to achieve what is expected by the supporters.

“Very disappointed,” Koeman said when asked for his thoughts on the game. “We dominated the game, we scored to make it 1-0. It's always difficult against Leicester because they rallty very defensive today and

“It's unbelievable how we lost the control after being 1-0 up. It think [we had] a sloppy attitude, not good. Yes, before we had good pressing on the ball and good organisation but we were punished by two goals.

“You need to continue with that same attitude. I don't understand why we dropped back and why we did not [play the] same as [when we were] 1-0 up because then they don't create that space.

“Maybe there was a lack of concentration if you look at the first goal. It's four defenders at the back, it's a long ball in [near] Seamus and we know Musa is fast but… to late.

“And it's unbelievable because 1-0 up [does not] mean the end of the game. We [needed] to continue with the same attitude and we dropped [back] and that's really bad.

“[Battling to the end] is what we needed to do. At 2-1 down, you take risks and play more offensive but we did not create a lot. Yes we had a lot of ball possession but then it's too late because we did it [to] ourselves at 1-0.

“Next week [against Manchester City] is for next week. We need to understand what we needed to do better today and that's more important that what happens next week.”

Koeman's frustrations with and criticism of the team's performance were carried over into his post-match press conference with the print media as well and he highlighted the problem when the youngest player on the team is one of the few to emerge with any credit.

He also appeared to urge the club's decision-makers to grease the wheels were squad improvements are concerned so that Everton can match their lofty ambitions off the pitch with success on it.

"It's not bad luck; we did it ourselves. It's unbelievable how we dropped back. If we play like we did in the last 30 minutes (against Man City) it can be the same result as against West Ham yesterday.

"Everyone is disappointed, but I know what we need to change. It's my job to get results to match the expectations of this Club.

"I know what we need to change and if everyone opens their eyes today maybe we will get further on our improvement as a team because that's really what we need and that's all about what happens this month.

" I hope the team realise that it needs to play and get results what the expectations are in this club.

"I can explain more but I don't like to because that's talks we need to do inside. But if a young player of 18 is today one of the best on the pitch then it says enough.

"The board knows [what needs to happen] as we spoke about it. They know what we need. That is the job of Steve Walsh and it's my job.”


Reader Comments (221)

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Chris Perry
1 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:18:44
Walsh and the board need to be busy bastards this week!
Paul Thompson
2 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:20:12
Posters calling for Koeman's head should realise that he is as frustrated with the players as we are.

There is a clear message to the Board (and Walsh) in his comments. Change can't come too soon, but Koeman must be given a fair chance to do the job.

Dave Ganley
3 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:24:12
Spot on with his comments. The players need to take full responsibility for today. We were in full control of that game and the players just capitulated.

Not a lot Koeman could do about that. No heart, backbone, desire whatever you want to call it, the players lost that game rather than Leicester winning it. They should be ashamed of themselves but they won't, we have seen it too many times before. Overpaid pampered fuckwits.

This is why everybody advocates a mass clear-out whether practical or not. Most are just not good enough and Koeman knows this. He has taken over a car crash of a club. This will take time.

Tony Hill
4 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:26:24
Surely Ronald isn't suggesting that those in charge of transfer activity are in danger of closing their eyes to what is needed? What on earth would give him that idea?
Patrick Murphy
5 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:30:24
Welcome to Everton, Ronald.

If you honestly think that the club will spend money before the summer, I'm afraid you're very much mistaken, they'll say they tried this, that and the other but we'll end up with our usual musical chairs nonsense: one out – one of similar quality in.

Why should the board spend money now when there's nothing or little to gain? Our place is almost assured in the Premier League for next season.

Guy Hastings
6 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:31:06
If you don't want your team to fall back, tell them. If you want them to form a human pyramid and recite Jabberwocky in the six-yard box, tell them. I thought that's what coaches did.

Or does Koeman think it's simply up to them for the 90 minutes and he can just watch impassively and enjoy a bloody great whinge afterwards? In which case, buy a bloody season ticket, mate.

Paul Gallagher
7 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:32:28
Liverpool Echo or the OS will have the usual predictable sound bites from one of the players....

"This isn't good enough, we have turned a corner after the defeat against Leicester."

"We have still have a lot to play for."

"The players are hurting after the defeat."

Nothing like insulting the fans intelligence.
Peter Laing
8 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:33:58
Thank fuck for a bit of honesty, it is what it is and no amount of bullshitting as per the previous Manager.

Whilst Dumb and Dumber remain in charge of transfer negotiations and the evident haggling that seems to apply to 90% of transfer activity, then we are unlikely to make progress. Moshiri needs to loosen the purse strings – Van Dijk and Manolos please.

George Cumiskey
9 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:35:28
So Ronald is livid, angry and frustrated, the cheeky bastard. How does he think the fans who shell out all the money feel?!?

He's the one who picked the team, gave the team talk, and made the substitutions. You couldn't fucking make it up!

Chris Williams
10 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:36:11
Just back from the game and I agree with his comments. And it's not the first time this has happened.

Nobody can be surprised at how Leicester played; it's what they do, but once we scored, and Geri tore them an extra arsehole, it just petered out and turned to rat.

No passion or fight. Surrendered the midfield an their pace took care of the rest.

His comments which appear to give the board a bit of a gee up are a bit concerning though.

Kim Vivian
11 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:37:08
That was all pretty diplomatic I would say, but well said. We get the message. I am sure his real thoughts were, and will be, a fair bit stronger when he's got the team in front of him.

Imagine the pontificating we would have had to listen to last season.

Scott Robinson
12 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:37:48
If a winning attitude was conveyed and impressed upon the players, perhaps a 1-0 victory would've remained. A good workman never blames his tools. I'm just saying...
Tony Hill
13 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:40:06
Yes, those comments are pretty brutal, the more you look at them: this team is shit and the board are dicking around.

Let's hope he gets a helpful reaction. The alternative doesn't bear thinking about.

Damian Wilde
14 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:40:51
He also wants to take a closer look at himself. We do indeed have a number of poor players, but two early cup exits is simply 'not good enough'.

Taxi for Koeman?

Seamus McCrudden
15 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:42:28
Players are simply not good enough when it comes to the mental side of the game. Change cant come soon enough for me re the playing staff.
Steavey Buckley
16 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:44:56
To be perfectly honest, Everton are lacking numbers in midfield. The opposition also knew today Everton are lacking numbers in the middle of the park.

Losing Gueye was a big blow. Hopefully, McCarthy will be back soon. Yet, for all Koeman's ranting against the team today, why does he continue with Barry in midfield?

John Harrop
17 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:46:00
It's pure fantasy to believe that we can sign four or five top-quality players in the January window. It's a notoriously difficult market and we're out of both cups, with only a slim chance of qualifying for Europe next season.

I'm not even convinced that an influx of new players will make any difference, if this is the best that the current management can do with the existing squad.

Seamus McCrudden
18 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:47:35
Agree 100%, Steavey. Barry is a bit-part player and no more. New blood asap please. The guard needs changing.
Colin Glassar
19 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:48:05
I thought it looked to be a pretty strong team but, I've said it before, it's a mentally weak squad.

I like the dig he gave Walsh and the board re transfers but if Bill and Ben are still in charge of transfers then I'm not too hopeful.

What was it that Moshiri told his BFF, Jim White, after the last window?

John G Davies
20 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:50:05
It's been obvious the players are not playing to orders at times. Example. Some pressing some not makes it look poor tactically. All or none is a must in the pressing game. If they didn't know before, they know now: he won't accept it.

He can drill them all week, once they step on the pitch it's ot of his hands. This is where we need a strong, vocal captain. Williams is my choice.

Charles McCann
21 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:53:38
Typical of Koeman putting all the blame on the players and not taking any responsibility himself. Playing Gareth Barry for 90 minutes today was in my opinion a mistake. Taking off Barkley and leaving Barry on did not make any sense when we desperately needed to score.

Recently, without Barry in the team, we had been playing better. Hopefully McCarthy will be back to partner Davies against Man City next weekend. I'm still not convinced by Koeman but I guess to sack him now might be a bit rash.

Chris Williams
22 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:53:45
I reckon he was pissed off after the last window and he's not about to tolerate a similar balls-up this time. He's flagging up his concerns, and let's be honest, many of us share his concerns.
Mike Green
23 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:53:50

Firstly – top marks for saying it how it is.

Secondly – if he's saying this to the camera's God knows what he's said behind closed doors and I think that's the root of the problem.

I don't think it's even a case of "losing the dressing room" – I think he's come in and had a look and made it clear he "doesn't want the dressing room".

Major problem with that is a) you can't change it over night; b) you rarely get the best out of people by telling them you think they're shit.

My guess is Ron rates Stek as a back-up, possibly Coleman, Williams but my instinct is not Baines, Barry but knows he's had it, Gueye, maybe McCarthy, Davies and Holgate as potential, Bolasie who's out for a year and Lukaku – that's it. I don't think he gives a toss about the rest and has made it pretty clear to them hence no team spirit, no desire to get results, no consistency or style.

By my reckoning then, I thinks he needs a class long-term keeper, at least two defenders, four or more midfielders and probably two strikers.

That's 8 players, getting on for a whole new team. Which is why he mentions Walsh, it's his job now to find the players that can fill those spots on a budget – which wont be anywhere near the 𧶀m (?) you'd expect that lot to cost, if we're lucky its half that at best. But if he can unearth half a dozen Gueye's then it's game on.

Koeman's frustration will be born out of, unlike many of our players, the fact that he wants to win. He is also in a hurry and we are going backwards fast.

So – he wants players in to turn this around. I'll bet, if he doesn't get half of what he needs by the end of the month, the Goodison dressing room is going to be a pretty bleak place to be.

Dermot Byrne
25 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:55:54
Good that he didn't say how hard the Board work, as last two managers kept saying.

Martinez's legacy... but older.

Keith Johnson
26 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:57:02
What can you say? Another Championship performance, not a Premier League side.

We need a solid defender and goalkeeper to start with and a midfielder (like the good old days). Remember players like Gravesen and Horne? Midfielders with BITE!

Time to stop the talking and get busy buying.
Marc Sansum
27 Posted 07/01/2017 at 18:58:11
Anyone know how the Financial Fair Play thing works? We all want signings (Ron included), but it may not be possible without having to get rid of someone. All this new commercial income is one thing they can do to offset FFP.
Ian McPherson
28 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:00:47
He's right, hes dead right. 3rd choice keeper, 32-year-old in centre defence with the Latin Titis Bramble. If Barry slows down anymore he will be in a rocking chair on the 18-yard box.

Valencia, Cleverley, Deulofeu, Mirallas, Gibson, McGeady, Lennon, Niasse, Jagielka... Squad needs serious investment to even get near the top 6.

Steavey Buckley
30 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:02:02
Koeman really failed when he did not bring in midfield cover for Gueye at the beginning of the year, as soon as the window was open. Yet, did Koeman really want to have Davies and Barry in midfield together against Leicester? I don't believe for one minute he did.

As for Schneiderlin, let WBA pay silly money for him and his wages. He will be closer to 28 when next season kicks off if Everton need him.

Tony Hill
31 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:02:54
Mike (23), I think there's a lot of truth in that. I thought it was interesting at the AGM that Moshiri said there wasn't in fact a great deal of time to get the club where it needs to be. That makes two impatient men and one would hope that between them they can do what's required.

But there seems to be something missing and going wrong with the plan and Komean is clearly frustrated. Apart from the obvious mediocrity of many of the players. I wonder what or who it is that's the problem?

Andy Meighan
33 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:05:01
More shite from the Dutch Mike Walker. You're not as livid as us, believe me.

He's been here 6 months and we've yet to play well in one full game. What a terrible indictment on a man getting paid –6 million a year. Why is it everything this miserable bastard club does turns to dust? Cup games, derby games, ground moves... I could weep.

Another season ruined. I shouldn't be shocked but I am. Really fed up with this now and I'm dreading to think who he will bring in because apart from Gueye his signings have been poor so far. At least that Martinez had us dreaming until late April last season.
Vince Furnier
34 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:05:18
Guy #6. I agree. I don't think he gets his message across. No-one is telling me that this and the home defeat against Norwich was simply the players not getting it right. As somebody said today this is not that different to the squad that got to the semis previously. I don't trust Ronald.
Mike Green
35 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:07:28
Or maybe it's just all been a little too cosy in the Everton dressing room for far too long. Stay in the league, stay in the Cups and give them a go is easy enough, you've got a big house, made for life, nice car, hot wife, local celebrity for what? Being an average top level footballer with enough top level mediocrity around you to stay safe.

You don't have to outrun the lion, you just have to outrun one person between you and the lion.

Then – a bloke comes in with ambition and money. Shit the bed, the gravy train could be hitting the buffers. Then he gets in the moody Dutch fucker who's been there, seen it, and done it all, and absolutely knows what quality looks like, and the cosy little number is well and truly looking like it's over.

Cue sad face :(

They're all sulking that paradise is lost, aren't they....? The veil has been lifted.

Victor Jones
36 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:11:11
Koeman finds it unbelievable that we failed to hold on to a lead. Stop the press... that's a new one on me. Everton throwing away a lead. FFS where has he been? This bunch of players have been throwing away leads for a few seasons now. I count down the minutes until the opposition equalise.

It's like being in a never ending maze supporting this Everton team. Turn one corner . And everything looks great. Then bang. We run into another dead end. We just go round and round in circles. Going nowhere.

Its one game at a time with this outfit. Who knows what will happen next.

What Koeman should find unbelievable is the fact that six months into the job and he has no plan( other that to buy more players).

He has no workable tactics in place.

And no footballing philosophy for players and supporters to buy into.

Yes the players were poor. But Koeman has not exactly inspired much confidence.

FFS... when did Everton ever play well with this five at the back nonsense? Arrrggghhh ...this is groundhog day all over.

PS, I wonder what Gueye thinks about today. No FA cup run for him to look forward to when he returns.

And also let's get real here, Van Diyk is not going to join Everton

Koeman may as well now blood four or five youngsters now for the rest of the season. Let's see what they can do.

But I suspect that he won't. So its more of the same old same old. I even doubt that by the start of next season that much will have changed..

People think that we are on the cusp of something big but in the meantime we keep losing football matches. There has to be a turning point sometime. We need a sign, then I might just start believing again.

Bobby Thomas
37 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:11:57
Putting so much pressure on the January window, and so publicly, is a really bad idea.

Kieran Kinsella
38 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:15:26
Koeman reminds me of Gullit at Newcastle. In interviews, he was always exasperated but absolved himself of blame and said "The players are crap, what can I do?"
Colin Glassar
39 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:15:48
The board screwed the last two managers, repeatedly. I don't think Koeman will be as complacent.
Ray Robinson
40 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:17:52
He's right up to a point but he changed the formation at half time. We lacked pace at the back when Holgate went off. Surely that was a contributing factor?
Don Alexander
41 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:19:34
Mr Moshiri, please don't let those still in charge of transfers include the two whose initials are an anagram of "BERK".
Ciarán McGlone
42 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:23:22
Koeman isn't fond of taking the blame, is he?

He seems to be scapegoating the quality of our players as an excuse for his own managerial faults.

Chris Williams
43 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:24:34
He's called it right I think.

I've been trying to think what the real issue is with these players. The only word I think to sum them up is they are just so fucking passive.

That's two words but you know what I mean.

Phil Walling
44 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:29:43
He's basically said, "It's fuck all to do with me. Blame the players and it's Walsh's job to fix it." His motivational skills score zero and his refusal to take any responsibility marks him as a bottler of the first degree.

No manager ever takes over a team of his own signings and the immediate task is to get the in situ players to give an extra 10-20% and devise tactics to ensure he gets it.

Because he's Moshiri's appointment, the Dutchman will get time to put things right. Let's hope he's up to the task!

Peter Laing
45 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:30:29
We have 2 goalkeepers on the books – both poor. 3 centre halfs on the books – 2 over the hill and the other described on twitter as the South American Titus Bramble. Midfield is littered with journeymen and we have one decent centre-forward.

We can't blame Koeman – he is working with another man's tools / squad.

Lewis Barclay
46 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:34:36
If Barca come knocking for him ...
Mark Morrissey
47 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:35:46
I'll nail my colours to the mast. It's taken me some time to come to this conclusion but I think, if Koeman had been in charge of Leicester last season, they would have done nothing.

I hate to say it but I think he's been rumbled. He's a one-trick pony. No idea how to change a game. Picks the wrong team week in week out. Cannot sort out Ross. Has too much faith in Lukaku up front on his own.

I feel we are stuck with a manager who is all well and good when the going is easy but he is a dunderhead. He cannot see what is before his own eyes. Sad to say it but I think the board will back him and I think he's clueless.
Eddie Dunn
48 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:38:22
Koeman took off Barkley. He clearly didn't see him getting us back into the game. He put on Kone. A big mistake. <{P>Barry was in the team and we were losing, Barry missed the games that we were winning. He kept him on for the 90, despite Cleverley sitting on the bench. Now I'm not suggesting that Tom would have done anything amazing, but he is quite fit.

Koeman complained of how the team sat back, but why didn't he berate them from the touchline, and tell them to up the tempo?

I have sympathy with Koeman, because he picked just about as strong a starting side as he could. The fact is, that many of them have no future at the club, and they know it. They won't be bumping into fans at the local Spa, as they move in elevated circles, well away from us oiks. There is very little for them to fear in terms of feedback. They live life in a bubble and Koeman can't get rid of them.

Koeman needs a shitload of new faces that he can trust. Most of this shower have let Martinez down, and now him. The board need to heed his exasperated request, or he might walk.

Brian Furey
49 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:40:45
I was going to post this morning that our season could be over at 5pm today but I thought, No, it was too negative, so I left it.

I didn't see the game but from what I've read it sounds like we were poor and probably thought once we went ahead that they would fall away and we would have it easy. Football has a nasty habit of kicking you when you're down and we have a lack of true leaders to ensure we close the game out.

I'd say Koeman feels the pressure now and, after quite a good December, his players let him down AGAIN. He has one hell of a job rebuilding this team but I guess we are in for a lot more frustration and pain.

Dean Adams
50 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:41:23
Mark! er... we have the most points from a losing position. That suggests that something normally spurs these players on to try and win. Reality is that they are not good enough and, once again, without Gana in the team we lose, not as badly as Chelsea but we lose.

Clearly we need players who want to win, not just collect silly money for doing fuck all. The modern players are so out of touch with the real world that they have no idea of hardship, or how to really dig in when things go against them.

Just because the manager calls it how he sees it is no reason to down tools, it should be the catalyst to prove that they are better.

Ciarán McGlone
51 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:41:33
I think Koeman is a bit thick.
Colin Glassar
52 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:41:58
I'm bloody confused with what's happening at Everton. Is it the players? The manager? The board? Or is it just the reek of complacency which surrounds the place which makes us such an easy touch?

We need to start from scratch in the summer.

Ian McDowell
53 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:43:33
Colin, like yourself, I have no idea what's going on, what our aim is ,or how we can fix it.
Andy Crooks
54 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:45:21
Damian (#14), that was a dreadful result but, "Taxi for Koeman?" is just foolish. It is never happening and if your comment was not tongue in cheek it is even more ludicrous.

Our season died today and that is lamentable but in the, frankly, dull months ahead (we epitomize mid table mediocrity) perhaps we will see development on and off the pitch. We need a big result but I think there are positive signs.

Mark Morrissey
55 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:48:29
Peter Laing says you can't blame Koeman. Do you think we are that bad that we should be out of both cups?

He signed Stekelenburg. He is second rate and we perhaps could have had Joe Hart but he said "I don't want him..."
He signed Williams. He is past his best.
He signed Valencia and has hardly played a 4-4-2.
He couldn't raise the team to beat Norwich
He couldn't raise the team today.
He can't really get a rise out of them most weeks.

Is it the players fault? They are not all Martinez's team. I am losing patience in his after-match drivel as much as I hated listening to Bobby's drivel. It is just different drivel. He blames the players. Martinez didn't. I'm at a loss to know what is going on.

Ian McDowell
56 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:49:45
I see Leicester had their new midfield man playing today whilst we piss about deciding if we can afford Schneiderlin.
Phil Walling
57 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:51:19
Positive signs like what, Andy?
Don Alexander
58 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:51:47
What do people expect Koeman to say or do with this shower?

It's like saying to a chef, right Beef Bourgogne all round in 90 minutes but here's your ingredients: a pound of tripe!

Mark Siddons
59 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:54:41
Just watched Preston. Although they lost, be it similar to us after being 1-up, McGeady put in more effort and created more than most of our team over the past months.

I did not see today's game, but sounds like nothing much was different.. Just saying...

Dean Adams
61 Posted 07/01/2017 at 19:59:01
Mark. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but calling Williams past his best and everything as drivel smacks of just being disappointed. As with all things in life, we can all be disappointed.

Money always helps to get the best, we have promises of money so give it time. It really does not matter if you know where or what is going on, it is Koeman and Walsh who need to.

Des Farren
62 Posted 07/01/2017 at 20:00:55
The one common denominator between last season, Martinez, and this, under Koeman is the players. So... do you really want to dispense with Koeman and start again? With the same squad and bedding in time with the new guy? Does not bear thinking about.
Mick Davies
63 Posted 07/01/2017 at 20:04:31
Peter @ 45, who is to blame if a ship sinks? Or an army gets destroyed? The man in charge, obviously.

If Koeman goes out and buys a player who he should know, won't play any part in the important post New Year fixtures, why didn't he bring in a loanee to bridge the gap? Maybe he couldn't get anyone, but he must have known Barry was finished (we've known it for 2 seasons), but instead of gradually blooding Davies and another youngster, he leaves it until he HAS to play Tom next to the sloth.

Also, he pays as much attention to the treatment room as his predecessor, never showing concern that players are not recovering for long periods (or in Gibson' case, being sectioned) and ignoring the lack of fitness in his team.

٤m/yr is alot of cash for someone who delegates every responsibility when things go wrong; he's got his brother and Dunc sitting next to him on the bench, he has Walsh looking for players and Elstone conducting transfers.

All he has to do is coach the players and pick the side, but he doesn't seem to be drilling them in any kind of system as they never look like they know what they're doing, and hardly ever know who they'll be playing with.

The captain seems to just be the longest serving player – regardless that Jags and Baines are the meekest members of the squad – and not the most capable, i.e. Williams or Coleman...

He couldn't wait to get McGeady out of the door or write off Niasse, but seeing Geads playing against Arsenal tonight makes me believe there is a player there if he's managed properly; also Niasse is scoring for fun in the ressies but won't get a chance under Koeman.

I know he's not going anywhere for a long time, so I will get behind him while he's our manager, but he has a long way to go to make me believe he knows what he's doing.

Tony Draper
64 Posted 07/01/2017 at 20:04:57
"If Barca come knocking for him ..."

Then Everton WILL be in fucking great shape, silver in the cabinet & regular wins against "the whale-hunters".

Daniel Joseph
65 Posted 07/01/2017 at 20:05:31

Thanks for spoiling my Dad's day out, Blues.


Paul Gallagher
66 Posted 07/01/2017 at 20:06:14
This season is over from a playing perspective. The question is where will we finish – 7th-12th. I am sick of watching mediocrity.

What I will be watching now is to see how serious Moshiri is, and how much he is willing to spend.

The new stadium I hope is the most memorable thing about this Season. You would need to be a mug to buy "Everton, the Season 2016-17 Review" when released.

Gordon Roberts
67 Posted 07/01/2017 at 20:18:20
Despite the huge amount of frustration amongst Evertonians, now is not the time to be calling for the 'new' manager's head, it is way too soon.

We are all hurting, and I've said in a few posts that the spine of the team needs major surgery. Hopefully, Schneiderlin will be added to the squad early next week but we should be judging Koeman next season, provided the Board and Walsh can negotiate the deals he wants.

Keep the faith, Blues!

Darren Hind
68 Posted 07/01/2017 at 20:18:31
Couldn't agree more, Ciaran @51. Him and his brother come across as pig shit and two short planks.

It's not long since he was bleating about the team having to go behind before they react, now he is complaining they cant react when they go in front... I wonder who he thinks should be sorting this out ?

today he tells us Davies was our best player, three weeks ago, he told us he wasn't ready... and why do we take of the younger legs and leave the arl tiring ones on.

Honest Ronnie? He's coming across as more of a Simple Simon. Absolutely clueless.

Season over on Jan 7th... Even by our own miserable standards that takes some doing – especially as we have been lucky enough to be drawn at home in both cup competitions.

Paul Hewitt
69 Posted 07/01/2017 at 20:22:57
Koeman can ONLY be judged after next season. Simple!
Paul Tran
71 Posted 07/01/2017 at 20:24:41
Mike Green (#35), you've called it spot on there. This is the beginning of the end of the easy ride for much of this squad. For the first time in ages, they're actually being held accountable by their manager.

For all that, I still think he should be getting more out of them than he is. I'd rather the manager break this lot up and start again. I couldn't put my hand on my heart and say he's the man right now. We'll just have to see. And hope.

David Greenwood
72 Posted 07/01/2017 at 20:25:15
Spot on Gordon. Changing the manager now is madness.

It's not just technically better players we need. The culture, attitude and mindset has to change.

Too many of our current players quite simply don't try hard enough.

Phil Walling
73 Posted 07/01/2017 at 20:27:06
Mickelson @ 63, if, as you say, 'Barry is finished'... why do you think he has just negotiated a new contract that will see the veteran still with us next season?
John Charles
74 Posted 07/01/2017 at 20:28:03
Honest Ron maybe needs to turn that honesty onto his own performance. The team may well be dire but it is his job to improve and inspire them and he is failing miserably.

When does it become his team and his responsibility? 1, 2 or 3 transfer windows?

Mark Morrissey
75 Posted 07/01/2017 at 20:30:10
Cheers Dean. It feels as though you just put your arm round me and said "It'll be alright, fuckin' cheer up."

It's what I needed, I'm just so very fucked off and knowing that the RS are in the League Cup this week it shows there is a gulf between our current team of "has beens" and their team of up and comings.

Klopp v Koeman –from where I'm sat there is a huge gulf. I'm always happy to be an Evertonian but I think Klopp is happy to be a RS whereas I don't get the same feeling about Koeman wanting to be part of our great club.

David Connor
76 Posted 07/01/2017 at 20:38:08
I've been saying for a long time now, Everton need to get tough on people within the club who are taking us for a fucking ride. Both players and coaching staff alike. For far too long now, people have come here and not even gone through the motions.

Everton are a fucking joke of a club with one of the worst squads I have seen in over 40 years of going to Goodison Park. We need to ship out at least 12 players over the next 2 windows:

Funes Mori, Robles, Jagielka, Barry, Kone, Oviedo, Gibson, Besic, McCarthy, Baines, Mirallas and Del boy – all need to go soon as. They are all either sick notes, over the hill, or just plain fucking shite.

If things don't change rapidly, it could be many years before we see some silverware at the club. You could argue that there are probably only 2 players worth keeping at all: Lukaku and Gueye. Season over.

Thanks very much, lads. Just when you think things couldn't get any worse, they fuckin pull another rabbit out of the hat. What a bunch of wankers. Enjoy your pay cheques, lads, you've earned them!

Tony Sullivan
77 Posted 07/01/2017 at 20:47:36
Steavey (#16)

Because Barry is the best he has got. He is being brutally honest and that is what we need.

It will be interesting to see what happens next.

Ian McDowell
78 Posted 07/01/2017 at 20:54:25
Koeman is hinting that he is not happy at all with the way transfers are handled. The summer was a disaster and now January looks like becoming the same. We knew for months Gana would be off to the AFCON and did nothing to address this.

Leicester had 3 players away today but they got their man in time for this game whilst we piss about over Schneiderlin. The club is so poorly managed I wouldn't be surprised if Koeman walks away this month.

Bill Watson
80 Posted 07/01/2017 at 21:00:35
After today's capitulation the game's up for a good few of these players.

Calling for the manager to be sacked is knee-jerk nonsense. The time to judge Koeman will be around this time next year.

Harry Wallace
81 Posted 07/01/2017 at 21:03:15
Koeman is doing no better than Martinez with these lads; however, they are not his players and he has not been given enough time.

Let's see how he does on transfers and judge him after a couple of seasons.

Anthony Murphy
83 Posted 07/01/2017 at 21:13:19
Mmmm I dunno here... a year ago, that squad was being touted as the best since the 80s. I haven't seen us play well for 90 minutes this season. Blaming the players is all well and good, but didn't we all argue that a new manager would take that squad from Martinez and whip it into shape?

I agree we are mentally weak, but surely that strengthening comes from the backroom staff too? Constantly hearing we have no leaders, but Williams, Coleman, Barry, Baines and Jags have all captained teams at some point – surely big Dunc adds those leadership qualities in the dressing room too?

Not sure what to make of this anymore... no silverware for 22 years. We ALL need to wake up... fans are too quiet, players too accepting of mediocrity, manager too willing to point the finger, owner too quick to rule out the relevance of a cup run. That game today should have topped a great week for the club, but instead it underlines our collective weaknesses.

Koeman needs time, but c'mon, Ronald – get the best out of the lads you have got until the players you want show up... At the moment, you're failing to do that and excuses are wearing thin.

I'm backing Koeman as at least he gets the whole set up needs massive improvements, but results like today are inexcusable, my Dutch friend!!

Gordon Roberts
84 Posted 07/01/2017 at 21:14:40
There was frustration in Koemans interview. The Board and Steve Walsh are accountable for bringing players into the club and the last transfer window was a disaster, overseen by amateurs which culminated in the farcical situation with Sissoko.
Christy Ring
85 Posted 07/01/2017 at 21:19:21
Everything he said after the match is correct, but he picked the team.

I knew from the start, our midfield was under pressure. Gueye and McCarthy were a huge loss, but we knew before today that Barry is finished, so not only did he play him, but gave him 90 mins, and take off Barkley, when we were behind and needed creativity.

I'm not a Cleverley fan, but he should have started today, and he certainly knows now, he's on his way.

Also with Barry as the holding player, Williams's and Funes Mori's pace was exposed, and when he changed to a back four, Holgate shouldn't have been the one to make way. Two big mistakes, Mr Koeman.

Craig Walker
86 Posted 07/01/2017 at 21:20:48
This interview gives me hope.
David Barks
87 Posted 07/01/2017 at 21:25:44
The excuse that the squad is shite or these are not his players is absolutely ridiculous. The squad is not as poor as some are saying, but the football being played is. There is talent in the team, but the quality of football and results are nowhere near good enough.

Conte didn't change out his entire team, but has immediately put his stamp on the team and has them playing in his style with great results. Koeman added five players in the summer, a keeper, central defender, central midfielder, winger and striker.

Mourinho no doubt was able to bring in two amazing players in Pogba and Zlatan. But the rest of the squad? Same as previous years. But as the season has gone on, he is putting his stamp on that team and they are regaining the reputation of a Man Utd team of the past. Klopp, we know the results he's been able to get with largely the same players that we on this very site we're laughing at as a poor side under Rodgers. Coutinho, Firmino, Lallana, Henderson. All have become new players under Klopp. And in just a year they are challenging Chelsea, the other squad who missed out on even qualifying for Europe last year and replaced their manager, now leading the league.

Nobody on this site has said Koeman should be sacked because he doesn't have us winning the league. What so many of us are saying is that we are not seeing progress under Koeman. We do not see any offensive philosophy developing under him, other than being completely reliant on Lukaku to score our goals. What we've seen is a lot of hoofball and very inconsistent results. We have seen a defense that still gives up goals far too often and too easily.

We should be seeing much more improvement in the team than what has been provided so far. To be knocked out of both cups at the very first round of entry after making it to the semi-finals of both cups just last season, that is shocking and completely unacceptable.

There have been articles on here calling for patience. In order to do that, it must be clear what we are being patient for? What is the expectation and when is it expected by? What in the hell is the goal and how do we judge whether we are moving in a positive direction or the opposite?

Should Koeman be sacked right now? Of course not. But just accepting these horrible losses while saying Koeman needs time to completely remake the squad? No manager gets to do that, nobody. You can not flip out an entire team – nor should you need to. You get the players in the team to improve, add the quality in the positions needed, and move the team forward playing the football the way you demand.

Colin Williams
88 Posted 07/01/2017 at 21:27:20
Sorry, no knee-jerk reaction here, the guy has been found out as a coach. This bloke is blaming everyone but himself, top coaches find solutions at clubs.

You look at the best coaches around, they don't spend £50 mill on players and can't create a philosophy for the players, management team and fans to follow. I haven't a fecking clue about the way he wants us to play, also his man-management skills are shocking... everything about him seems wrong!

I look at the top 6, their managers have quality written all over them, the performances of players nearly every week is exceptional and at least half of them came in at the same time as our guy who blames everyone except himself!!!

False twat – feck off from my club!!

Derek Thomas
89 Posted 07/01/2017 at 21:28:10
Snap poll: Which applies best?

A) Scott Robinson @ 12; If a winning attitude was conveyed and impressed upon the players, perhaps a 1-0 victory would've remained. A good workman never blames his tools. I'm just saying...

B) Tony Hill @ 13; Yes, those comments are pretty brutal the more you look at them: this team is shit and the board are dicking around. Let's hope he gets a helpful reaction. The alternative doesn't bear thinking about.

C) Damian Wilde @ 14; He also wants to take a closer look at himself. We do indeed have a number of poor players, but two early cup exits is simply 'not good enough'. Taxi for Koeman?

D) Seamus McCrudden @ 15; Players are simply not good enough when it comes to the mental side of the game. Change cant come soon enough for me re the playing staff.

E) Chris Williams @ 22; I reckon he was pissed off after the last window and he's not about to tolerate a similar balls-up this time. He's flagging up his concerns, and let's be honest, many of us share his concerns.

F) Koeman hasn't got a plan except to throw money at the problem and hope to get it right.

G) Elements of all the above.

Jerome Shields
90 Posted 07/01/2017 at 21:28:38
I am getting very sick of alternate good and bad performances. Something is not right at this club. We seem to attract the players and managers that give us this week in week out for the last three manager terms. There is no excuse money ways now. I don't think Koeman is going to make any difference.

All of us know that having won a game it is vitally important to win the next game. Three Managers and a raft of players have consistently failed to do this. They have been in dreamland as far as the next match is concerned. Martinez did it for a while, but returned to type with a vengeance.

This is the only yard stick that counts.

Andy Crooks
91 Posted 07/01/2017 at 21:34:28
Phil (#57), we have, in my view, some good players. We have some very promising young players. We are in a much sounder financial position, we are landing some lucrative commercial deals. We have money available to strengthen.

Now, this does not make me less gutted than any Evertonian at today's result. Nor does it blind me to the size of the task Koeman faces. I believe he is the man for the job but accept that some Evertonians cannot see that.

It seems to me, though, that it is too soon to judge and those who run the club see it the same.

Ben Howard
92 Posted 07/01/2017 at 21:36:28
I'm seriously worried. Although I can't really disagree with what Koeman has said, and the honesty is refreshing after BBS, the timing and brutality of it has me very concerned.

Could it be that he's good reason to believe that the board won't back him as he'd like and all blame has been therefore pointed at them prematurely.

It sounds like he's making his excuses early. If we don't get the 5-8 players he wants, then he can walk away with his reputation intact.

Should he be allowed to? If he was promised something that the board can't/won't deliver, can we blame his frustration? But should he be more professional in the light of the serious possibility of a January window disaster, knowing that he'd have to continue working with the same players?

We can't afford for him to lose the dressing room right now.

A fragile win today would have made things look so different.

Lewis Barclay
93 Posted 07/01/2017 at 21:39:35
I read Koeman's interview as: "I'm not impressed with the effort of our players. The board and Steve Walsh need to sort this out in January or our season is over. I bought into something bigger than what I'm seeing currently."

We are on the verge of being something other than average. It just depends which direction we head, I think Koeman is trying to head north, quickly.

Raymond Fox
94 Posted 07/01/2017 at 21:44:05
He's in charge of the team, we score with 27 minutes to go, is it impossible to get the message out of what he wants them to do then!

It's not like its not happened before is it? Do they not discuss tactics before the game, you know what if!

Yes we have too many second rate players, but come on he's on ٤m a year, plus the cost of his assistant and others.

Koeman has been very ordinary in every department; in fact, he's been bad in some.

Tony Abrahams
95 Posted 07/01/2017 at 21:54:11
Really good common-sense thread this considering we have just been knocked out of the cup. I find myself agreeing with a lot of what's getting posted on both sides of the fence and really can't make my mind up on this manager.

A lot of what Koeman says, I actually agree with but, for a man who has been involved in football for a very long time, I can't believe how little cohesion we have in our team now he's had half-a-season to sort things out. I know it's easy sitting in the stands, but I thought the tactics today were consistently wrong.

Agree with Paul Tran who was agreeing with Mike Green, and I also think this squad lacks real character but I think the manager should be thinking things out so much better than he his.

Paul Birmingham
96 Posted 07/01/2017 at 21:55:50
Awful... and the result wasn't unexpected and even with some of their better players away in the ACON, we again had no game management.

The season is a write-off and bar a miracle there's only the league and "pride" to play for. The concern is as professionals this team don't fight like wolves and it seems lack inspiration and guild on the pitch.

Geri had a crack and set one up and done okay, but proved again that his decision-making is as unreliable as ever but in fairness changing the team in my view didn't work and as in the EFL we bow out again in undignified style and an all too common trait.

It's been in some ways a typical week at EFC, and the positive news from the AGM, tarnished by the business end result on the pitch. I'm getting too old and whilst the love never dies for EFC, the calamity can't be prolonged as I sense many supporters whom are as old and older than me are sick to the back teeth. I'd like to think the club will make a positive statement this month, but To get the best players here now will take some doing.

Next Sunday, there must be a positive reaction and I'd put the kid Mola in the squad. Barry should be rested next week and should be used as a squad player henceforth. Hope eternal, but the show is now becoming too predictable and the stench of failure is always hanging.

Seamus McCrudden
97 Posted 07/01/2017 at 21:56:24
Derek, you could also include points H to Z and you might still only be scratching the surface...
Geoff Williams
98 Posted 07/01/2017 at 22:05:15
About time he took some responsibility for the team's lacklustre season so far. Gana apart, his signings have been poor. Not one of the players has improved this season and some have gone backwards at a rate of knots.
Colin Williams
99 Posted 07/01/2017 at 22:07:49
David (#87), excellent assessment of the current nightmare!

One thing I would change: this guy is not suitable for our club at this important stage within our history. We need a manager with a vision and philosophy that would lift all Evertonians – not totally confuse and frustrate the hell out of them.

Joe Bibb
100 Posted 07/01/2017 at 22:11:39
This manager has just given Barry a new contract and he has the cheek to blame everyone but himself. Dutch Master? More like Dutch Disaster.
Tom Flower
102 Posted 07/01/2017 at 22:17:16
It would be lunacy to even consider changing the manager. I did not want Martinez to leave last season. Getting so close in two semis and 11th in the league did not strike me as failure given the resources available to him and considering those resources available to other teams.

We are where we are and Koeman has ambition and determination coursing through his veins and is a winner. He has inherited an ageing team which has been starved of serious investment for a decade. It is obvious that we need six or seven players at least.

A number one goalie is a must. I would go for Hart. Jags and Barry look finished and how we have managed without more forwards is beyond me. The time to judge the manager is in eighteen months once he has had a chance to form a team of his making. Power, technique, and pace, all over the park, is needed.

Mike Rees
103 Posted 07/01/2017 at 22:25:05
I have a new name for our beloved football team. NEVERTON!

Never going to compete for a trophy again; never going to have the bottle to see out a match when they're winning; never going to seriously challenge for anything worth winning; never going to care about the passion of their supporters desperate to avoid being left even further behind by teams like Chelsea, like Manchester City etc who weren't fit to lace our boots in years gone by! Everton have still won more league titles than those two put together!!!

22 years since our last trophy of note! I'm fortunate I have followed decent (and some dross!) Everton teams since 1966.

Fact is that most footballers are treated so royally at the higher levels of the game these days by mostly greedy agents; they don't care about their supporters who pay good money and want their team to show pride, passion and commitment even if ultimately they lose a match! To give away winning positions so cheaply is totally unacceptable!!

No Everton players or management will probably read this but, if they unexpectedly did, I would say it is outrageous that a football team of our historical rank and standing as a founder member of the original Football League and winners of many trophies until it ended(?) in 1992 continues to throw opportunities to progress away; year upon year upon year! Come on Everton!!!! WAKE UP to the realities of the situation and start by always showing at least the desire and effort to win EVERY game you play!

Yet another January has just arrived and the season is as good as over!!!

Sorry folks been stewing over this afternoon's latest debacle too long! And yet still we hope... for something... sometime... whenever...

Ashley Roberts
104 Posted 07/01/2017 at 22:46:35
Without seeing the game today, I have lost all faith in the competency of the manager. After going 1-up, it is then the coach's job to make sure they stick to Plan A or change to Plan B. Was he on the touch line relaying these instructions when things started to go wrong? From what I have seen all season, I doubt it very much.

After loosing, it is so easy to blame everybody else but maybe he needs to look hard in the mirror. There are good enough players in the squad to beat a very average Leicester side. It all boils down to tactics and motivation and I have not seen a master class in either area as yet from Ron.

It sounds like everybody was completely baffled with the Barkley substitution today. Why would you give up your attacking midfield player when chasing the game; surely you would surrender one of your defensive midfielders or a defender? Still what do I know about tactics because I am not paid £6M per year!!

Moving forward, we will not make Europe this year so why would we spend £22M on a player that is not even good enough to warm the bench at Man Utd? And being 28 next season, he can hardly be seen as somebody for the future.

My money would go on investing in a good keeper, such as Heaton from Burnley, and one solid defender with some energy and a long-term future. These 2 positions should have been a priority in the last transfer window. Then, look to rebuild in the summer when the prices are more realistic.

Anthony Dwyer
105 Posted 07/01/2017 at 22:50:20
Today just goes to show how fragile we really are as a team.

Barry had to play as Cleverley is clearly on his way out, and even though I suggested a centre midfield of Davies and Barkley on Toffee web yesterday, on reflection it would have been a massive issue had Ronny lost the game with the two young lads in the centre.

Ronny also (IMO anyway) made a positive substitution; Holgate was unfortunate to make way for Geri, but in all fairness we completely dominated the first half without having any real threat, so it was a bold substitution, one that was needed.

Unfortunately, after the sub was made, we lost control, we allowed Leicester to play and the game became much more even. From here on Ronny couldn't get nothing right as far as I could see.

Valencia looked a menace, his pace and willingness to run gave Leicester something to worry about, swapping him with Miralas was almost a negative, but in putting Geri on Ronny had already made a move so there wasn't much else left he could do.

The biggest most puzzling moment came when at 1-2 down, Ronny thought Kone would add the creative guile needed (from the left, may I add) to drag us back into the tie. In making this substitute he left Davies to run around everywhere to do almost all the graft in the centre as Barry has no legs and we had gone with what looked like 4 up top. We had no craft other than Geri on the right, and to top it off Williams was struggling with what looked like a knock.

I can't see sense in the Barkley substitution, he played really well last game, but today he looked like he didn't really no where to be as Ronny put him out on the left, so once he seen it wasn't working, why not put him back central?

Also bringing on Kone for Ross was criminal in that he almost hung Kone out to dry, we haven't seen sight or sound of Kone all season, we're pretty much waiting to see him move on, and Ronny cup-ties him and murders him all in one rash swift move!

Ronny can rant and rave all he likes, but as far as I can see he doesn't appear to be buying players for positions we need anyways.

Today we were short through the middle, this is due to Gana being away (which we all knew was happening), McCarthy being injured, which was unfortunate, but in all fairness he's another player Ronny hasn't really been fair with. Gibson and Besic are always fucking injured so no change there, and Cleverley has been completely ignored.

My gripe with Cleverley is that I'm not a fan, but its clear we were stuck, and Ronny clearly knew he wasn't playing Barkley and Davies together (no one else can make the call), so why didn't he use his head and bring Cleverly in bit by bit over the Xmas as its been clear Barry is struggling.

Also I can't see why contracts have been dished out to Barry and Gibson, there basically going to take the out right piss next season by stealing a living out of our club.

Ronny can moan, he's got some fair points, but he's far from blameless; it's us fans who suffer again, 12 long months until were back in the Fa cup, and simply fuck all to look forward to on the pitch all this season.

Let's hope the Russians come and sort out this big mess.

Anthony Dwyer
106 Posted 07/01/2017 at 22:53:37
A big issue for me with Ron is that, every time we are losing, he just throws as many people up top as possible, he has no tactics of what to do.

What was today's final 15 minutes plan?

Okay, from the right Geri can whip it in, but left sided and through the middle, what was the plan?

Kone to do what?

Barry to create what?

Davies to do EVERYTHING?

Peter Howard
107 Posted 07/01/2017 at 22:59:31
Mike (35):

Totally agree.

These twats have had more than enough time.

Send out a message by getting rid of the lot.

It doesn't have to be done as a fire sale-just start selling them off and replacing them. Any of them that want to stay have to start playing ( or at least trying ).

Brian Williams
108 Posted 07/01/2017 at 23:04:10
It's the hope that kills you, Mike.

Koeman's taking a fair bit of stick on here, rightly or wrongly, I honestly don't know. What I do know is that he can't force the players to go into 50/50s full bloodedly, with 100% expectation of winning the ball. I watched at least three players today back out, or jump out, of 50/50s.

I know that he can't be on the pitch to force his centre forward to be where he should be on the pitch when we're on the attack and to try to win the ball when it's more than a foot away from him instead of throwing his hands in the air and remonstrating with players who don't do exactly as he wants.

We were out-run and out-muscled all over the pitch today, especially in midfield where I have to say, yet again, we need big, strong, fast athletes the type of which we see week in week out playing against us.
Just so pissed off... AGAIN!

Bobby Thomas
109 Posted 07/01/2017 at 23:10:23
Mick #63

Erm ...Geads?! Jesus wept.

Before he was sacked even Martinez had placed that clown in the deep freeze.

Eddie Dunn
110 Posted 07/01/2017 at 23:11:44
Ladies and Gents, I too have been mightily depressed by what occurred today, and I have vented my spleen at the players, the board and Koeman on various threads.

A few hours later, sobered by the Bowie documentary and intoxicated by the remnants of my Xmas Famous Grouse, I feel like I now have the objectivity to pronounce on our plight.

Ronald may well be a shit motivator / and tactically challenged. On the other hand, I suspect, he has walked into Finch Farm (as it was once known), and he has been underwhelmed at his squad, their physical and mental strength, and perhaps has had an inkling of the methods of our board. Steve Walsh will not have been his choice, and now Kenwright, Walsh et al are having influence in our recruitment.

Ron is Moshiri's man. If we want to get all starry-eyed over our saviour, then we need to get behind his choice of manager.

I remember pre-season, most on here were saying top half of the league and new faces in, and we would be happy, after the joke of Martinez. I am as guilty as the next man of being too impatient after our amazing start.

I do, on reflection, think that we have been lumbered with a squad full of has -beens, crocks and people who are looking at their future elsewhere,(whether that future is Sunderland, London, or Nowheresville).

Koeman is fed-up; he needs a big window to bolster his faith in "the project"... So far, we have been given a child from Charlton, and in the last window, we didn't spend a penny due to the Stones sale.

Koeman and the fans need a statement of intent from the board, or I honestly think he might resign. If the knockers on here think that is good, then consider the next candidate, and what he or she might be able to do with this bunch of losers.

Seamus McCrudden
111 Posted 07/01/2017 at 23:11:58
Peter, I agree with you and Mike 100%. Get behind the manager who has been here only six months... or the average-at-best players (with the odd exception) who have done fuck all for god knows how long.

I know who I am backing. This club needs an overhaul from top to bottom which has only just begun.

Jim Bennings
112 Posted 07/01/2017 at 23:12:49
Sick of the same tired excuses, year-in & year-out, the same old failures or at best it's a glorious failure.

Gets mundane, supporting a club that never fails to let down the fans.

Seamus McCrudden
113 Posted 07/01/2017 at 23:16:47
Eddie that was mighty eloquent my friend considering the scotch on board. My Chianti is in full flow but my fat fingers aren't exactly typing like I want them too. Fuck it... but I feel like Koeman.
Don Alexander
114 Posted 07/01/2017 at 23:29:40
Eddie Dunn (110) I wish I could be so elequent after a night with "the low flier". Fully agree with you. Cheers!
Eddie Dunn
115 Posted 07/01/2017 at 23:33:38
Thanks Seamus and Don, as I am full of a chesty cold to boot, I might just have another nip of that low flier before going off to bed to dream of Ron getting Reidy, Brace, Sheeds, Gray, the Rat and big Nev in his locker room!
Bobby Mallon
116 Posted 07/01/2017 at 23:37:28
Maybe he's looking to be sacked?
James Watts
117 Posted 07/01/2017 at 00:03:27
Typical Everton. What did anyone expect?

A good result against Southampton, a very upbeat AGM, a new signing with a couple on the way and finally a home game against a poor Premier League side in the cup of course it was going to end in defeat. Out of both cups early and best we can hope for is 7th. Nothing changes.

But I hope Barcelona give Koeman a ring and he fucks off. He never takes any responsibility and throws everyone else under the bus. 'It's the team, not me', 'Walsh better sort it out otherwise I can't do anything' and 'It's nothing to do with my tactics, selection. motivational skills or substitutions'.

Well Ron, news for you. It's your fucking team. It's your fucking tactics. It's your fucking substitutions. Look in the mirror instead of fucking off down the golf course and counting the money in your bank account.

John Pierce
118 Posted 08/01/2017 at 00:19:22
Koeman is playing a good game when it comes to deflecting blame. Not anything about him, no hands up for poor substitutions, changing a shape which Leicester were not handling well.

Lots of posters still on the gin juice from the potential good news from the AGM.

Koeman doesn't need the hassle of Everton nose diving whilst he hastily looks to embellish a chequered record that will get him to Barca. Fat chance. If Everton don't move quickly enough as a club, then he will resign that much is clear, he's done it before.

For all you out there who believe Ronnie will get it together once he has 'his' players, I believe he's shown me little that much will change. If I get better players in my team I'm sure things will go better, not that sage really.

The disgrace, and that's what the reality of losing both cup games is, at home to indifferent opposition is scandalous. Rebuilding blah, not his team blah. It's all so substandard from the top down.

I'd expect the board to make it known how unhappy they are at both exits. But that's a significant part of the problem isn't it? Truly disgusted with Everton today, Koeman front and center of it.

The club haggling over pennies tells me little has changed.

Brian Hennessy
119 Posted 07/01/2017 at 00:20:11
I'm going to try and stay positive and focus on the fact that Moshiri may be about to deliver the stadium we need in the next few months.

Koeman will probably be given at least another year. If things don't improve by then, I hope Moshiri is as ruthless as he was with Martinez.

All we can hope is that between this window and the summer Koeman gets rid of between 7 to 10 players from this current squad, buys one or two proven quality players, and unearths a few hidden gems. I have had enough of most of this current squad.

I would keep all the young players (under 21). Of the rest, for me only Coleman, Gana, Barkley and Lukaku should be certainties to stay. I wouldn't mind if we held on to either keeper - but only as back up, along with Williams, Funes Mori and Deulofeu for one more year to see how they turn out. The rest I would gladly get rid of as quickly as possible.

Ryan Williams
120 Posted 08/01/2017 at 00:26:19
To be fair, we've been 11th two years in a row. Koeman has done much better than that. The cup losses are tragic, but let's see what Koeman has done with an 11th place squad.

Bolasie is hurt, but we were playing well at times with him. Williams, who is an immediate starter and should be. Gana, who has been a massive upgrade. Stekelenburg has been fine. That's it.

With Bolasie, McCarthy, Besic hurt, Berry a step slower, McGeady/Niasse/Gibson not effective, it's not a great squad. Even if everyone was healthy.

Schneiderlin would be a massive upgrade. We absolutely need a legit centre-back. Jags is past it. Funes Mori is okay. We have no wings – Lennon, Deulofeu, Bolasie is out, Mirallas is kind of a wide player. That's not great. We also have no playmaker – Barkley, on a good day kind of – but no one else to link with Rom. What about a strike partner for Rom? Valencia has played well, but he's not a legit top 6 team starter, not even close.

If there's one thing that's obvious about the game of football, is that you are only as good as your weakest link. Rom and Ross can play really well, but there are just too many other huge holes out there that stymie their abilities.

Centre-back, central midfield, attacking central midfield, winger are all huge needs. Even if everyone was available.

Craig Fletcher
121 Posted 08/01/2017 at 00:27:31
Eddie (#110) agree entirely.

I'm amazed at the impatience of some on this thread. Koeman's tactics have been hit and miss this season, and within reason when he cocks up the in-game management of the team then yes, he leaves himself open to criticism.

But Koeman is now also the only Everton manager in my 40 years to publicly criticise (as thinly veiled as it was) our redundant board.

For that at least, he should be applauded. His ambition – for the moment at least – far exceeds the Board of Directors at our club.

Eric Myles
122 Posted 08/01/2017 at 00:33:11
Chris (#10),

"His comments which appear to give the board a bit of a gee up are a bit concerning though."

My exact thoughts when I read it. It's as if he's been told there'll be no big spends this window, or he has no confidence in the chief negotiators to deliver.

Kieran Kinsella
123 Posted 08/01/2017 at 01:18:00
What do we get for our ٤ million? This continental model has one person identifying talent, the board doing the buying and Koeman coaching. If it's simply a matter of buying good players then why have Koeman at all?

I'm not exonerating the inept board by any measure but ٤ million just to coach the players and pick a team? Surely there's a reasonable expectation that a "coach" earning that much can raise the level of the players?

I understand he's not a miracle worker but let's just examine the pressing issue (pardon the pun) The coach wants the team to press but they don't. So either they're unfit which falls under his purview or they're not motivated which is also in his realm of control. Does he lack motivational skills? Training prowess? Or both?

Players can improve with training. Shearer credits Dalglish from turning him into a star with tips on the training field. Mediocre players can produce a winning team with the right desire and tactics as Leicester have shown. So what is it that Koeman brings to the table?

Jack Convery
124 Posted 08/01/2017 at 01:18:40
The penny's just dropped for Ron – he's not working with professionals at EFC. That's something we've known for years.

We always think like a tuppence halfpenny organisation. If Man Utd want 㿁m for Schneiderlin and Ron wants him – pay it or tell us everything is pie in the sky as fucking usual. We are resigned to EFC's shortcomings – great result followed by a pile of shite syndrome – its been going on for years as has the inferiority complex to our beloved neighbours. The Club needs winners within it.

Ron, love – welcome to our world – it's shit. Good luck with geeing them up. If I were you, I'd give them an ultimatum – "Buy me Van Dijk and Schneiderlin – get me Depay on loan and let me start getting rid of the dross that stinks the place out. Otherwise, you can stick your non existent project were the sun don't shine."

Peter Jansson
125 Posted 08/01/2017 at 01:22:54
Seriously, you guys that talk down Ronald Koeman today. Look at the fucking players! Why the hell on earth should these players suddenly become stars because we got Koeman as a manager? WAKE UP! We need new and better players, that's it!

As I see it, if Koeman does not manage to get the board to spend some money, then we are in serious trouble, because then we will never spend any money.

The biggest risk here is that Koeman gets fed up and quit, like he did in Valencia. Then the board can hire another manager that eat all the shit, and fans get fooled for another couple of years.

Koeman has been a world class player and knows what it needed to succeed. Just face it, we do not have a squad that is good enough, or at least the squad is not at all close to being as good as it should be to meet the expectations of the Evertonian fans.

I believe that if we are to win anything we need to get in a bunch of new players. Until then we can argue and talk how much shit we want in here. Either the board spends some money or we are fucked for years to come.

Patrick Murphy
127 Posted 08/01/2017 at 01:26:58
Kieran (#123)

A crate of Chardonnay, "The little book of indoor golf games – 18 ways to improve your handicap" and a rather large bank balance.

Ronald was asked "What is your handicap?" and he tetchily replied "Them stingy bastards on the board at Goodison and the other 20-30 lame buggers at Finch Farm"

Ed Fitzgerald
128 Posted 08/01/2017 at 01:35:05
For all those back-slapping Koeman for his brutal honesty, I suggest you all take a reality check.

If he was really honest he would say, "I am the manager and I take responsibility for the way team has played this season."

It is his job to motivate and enthuse them as well dictate tactics and strategy. The quality of football played has been dire ALL season.

For those who are saying he hasn't had any money he got 47½m to spend straight away, what other Everton manager was given that type of transfer kitty.

Jack Convery
129 Posted 08/01/2017 at 01:41:08
I thought it odd that Barry was given a longer contract, when its obvious his legs are going or gone. Did Koeman approve this extension ? Did he want it? Did the same person give Gibson an extension? I think most Evertonians would say no to an extension to both these players. So why did they get extensions?

Ron's comments today make me think he's being undermined by someone at the club. Either because they want him to resign because some of the senior players don't like him or whoever it is has decided they are against the project and therefore Moshiri.

As usual, something stinks within EFC and Ron's decided the smells becoming a little to much for him. The fact that Moshiri mentioned EFC being a museum tells me he's picked up on it too.

Museums are musty places, dwelling in a romantic past and I know of only one guy at EFC who thinks in rose tinted romantic ways about the blues. Maybe the way Osman and Hibbert were treated still rankles as its not the EFC way, well at least not their EFC way.

Moshiri must back RON now, so show us the money and lets knock this ancient edifice down and become a modern Premier League club that competes at the top and not the trier that ends up being the 'Best of the Rest', as even that's doubtful for this season, at least.

Patrick Murphy
130 Posted 08/01/2017 at 01:47:19
This from NSNO is unsubstantiated:

"Koeman and Walsh appeared to have a positive relationship at the Everton Annual General Meeting earlier this week, but there have been stories from within the club that not everyone at board level is convinced by Walsh's abilities."

IF true, it might explain a thing or two. I would hazard a guess that the identity of one of the board members is a recently promoted bean counter?

Clive Mitchell
131 Posted 08/01/2017 at 01:50:24
Well, I've recently completed my near 500-mile round trip to the game and I can't tell you how delighted I am to discover that the manager is livid. He's quoted as saying we dominated the game – no Ronald, we didn't dominate anything today, the opposition won easily. The only bright spark from us was provided by a player you won't put in the starting 11.

He says it's always difficult against Leicester – yeah Ronald, the so-and-sos turned up and were competent, how on earth were we supposed to cope with that? Must be frustrating for you that the people you're paid so handsomely to prepare to perform so signally fail to do so on almost every occasion.

I took a friend today who used to play professionally in his youth; the poor man was speechless. At least we could admire the professional performances of Musa and Mendy. But we did wonder what exactly you DO, Ronald?

Peter Jansson
132 Posted 08/01/2017 at 01:51:26
Ed... all the players he took in, on a short notice, all improved this team.

Williams – better than stones

Bolasie – definitely an improvment

Gueye – the best ballwinner in the league together with Kante. But Kante had quality creative midfielders around his last season in Leicester, Gueye does not have that luxury.

Enner Valencia– I like him.

Soren Moyer
133 Posted 07/01/2017 at 01:54:53
Week after week, I'm being more and more convinced that Koeman is yet another fraud... and the only reason he is here is to get his millions!
Peter Jansson
134 Posted 08/01/2017 at 01:55:19
What about the players, Soren?
Christine Foster
135 Posted 08/01/2017 at 01:55:58
Legacy. What you start off with, not what you want. That's where we are. No getting away from the Moyes / Martinez squad or ethos and the only way is to ship players out wholesale and rebuild.

I have a sneaky suspicion that Koeman would do that in a heartbeat and I could see 7 players going this month if he could do it. He has had enough.

Rather than, who would go, who would you keep... the list is getting shorter by the day.

At least he has told it as it is...

John Pierce
136 Posted 08/01/2017 at 01:56:11
Peter Jansson,

If all we need is new players why isn't Roberto still in charge?

The team aren't some rudderless entity who gift a manager a reputation because that's all it takes.

He has had 4 players in all of which are first team starters. The team by your logic should be better?

Whether we finish 7th, 11th or 16th the football has been base, moribund and devoid of any enjoyment. It's matters, those who say otherwise might judge what the purpose of watching Everton is about?

I expect a tighter, more keenly open judgement of any Everton manager, Koeman and beyond. We as a fan base have been plenty patient across nearly 3 decades.

Moshiri stated in the meeting regarding the ground there is a limited window of opportunity. That's stands for the squad too. The gap is widening and unless the both the playing squad, and should it require it, the manager need replacing then so be it.

The whole point of a directior of football model is to allow the change both players and manager whichout the structure of the club being repeatedly changed.

Won't bet on Koeman seeing out the season.

Peter Jansson
137 Posted 08/01/2017 at 02:03:18
John, Martinez is not in charge because he was totally lost. He did not even see that this squad was on a rapid decline. We finished 11th last season and now we are at the 7th spot. That is better than last year.

Martinez said after every game that the players played fantastic. What kind of bs is that? Martinez was a fraud and Koeman is not.

Koeman is honest. What else do you want? A bullshitter like Martinez?

Jack Convery
138 Posted 08/01/2017 at 02:14:49
Remember, folks, most of the team on display today laid down and gave up at Anfield last season and humiliated us. I for one have never forgiven them. Even if you didn't want Martinez as manager, you never give up against LFC. Losers / whingers the lot of them.

Koeman knows what it takes to succeed – he had it in spades and he can suss out a bunch of phoneys in a heartbeat.

Today he just put it in to the public domain and he wasn't just referring to the players either. Good on him I say.

Soren Moyer
139 Posted 08/01/2017 at 02:15:45
The players are to blame too, but imo if a manager can't motivate his players and gets his tactics wrong, then he is not good enough.
John Pierce
140 Posted 08/01/2017 at 02:22:49

Refreshing or a bullshitter doesn't really cut it, don't care if the manager sings a song, I want to see progress made with the current manager, that is not happening.

He is paid to coach, to date not one player however bad we think they are has shown an iota of improvement.

Getting better players is fine, none will be the finished article so what faith can I have Koeman can improve them? Evidence to date, none.

Koeman almost singled handled ruined that game with his subs and formation changes, completely altered the momentum and then full out blamed the players.

Problem for Koeman is he has pissed off so many of the squad, if he doesn't get bodies in, then he's got a load of guys both pissed with him and not really interested in playing for him.

You make your bed, he could well be lying on it, that bed is made of nails.

Peter Jansson
141 Posted 08/01/2017 at 02:29:25
Seriously, if the players had a winning mentality they do not need a coach to tell then to fight their asses off. I fight my ass off a couple of times a week without a fucking coach. And in my opinion these players just don't fight their asses of every single game as they should.

The players do not want to play for him? Bullshit – I don't buy. No manager is apparently good enough for this team. That is pure bullshit.

Paul Smith
142 Posted 08/01/2017 at 02:42:40
I've got to say up to now Koeman has been a bit of a disappointment. I can't remember 1 game where we've played well the whole 90 minutes. We all know we need new signings, at the end of the match there was only 1 (Williams) on the pitch otherwise it was Martinez's team.

What I couldn't understand was him taking off Valencia who was one of our better players on the day. I am now getting a bit worried about handing Barry an extension to his contract as, with each passing week, he seems to be getting worse. Also the likes of Mirallas, Barkley and even Lukaku are frustrating the life out of me. They just stroll around offering nothing and big changes are obviously needed.

We probably need to sign 5 players this window. With Lookman in I would like Schneiderlin, Smalling, Pickford and Lacazette. Then probably another 3 - 4 in the summer window.

The team I would then like to see given a chance till the end of the season would look like this:

Pickford (when fit), Coleman, Baines, Smalling, Holgate, Gueye (when back), Schneiderlin, Davies, Lookman, Lacazette, Lukaku.

This team already looks like it would have more energy about it... although it is fanciful to think Lacazette would come to us.

John Pierce
143 Posted 08/01/2017 at 02:56:16
So players of an ability at any time and space cannot be expected to improve?

Peter you deal in the here and now, and come February 1st Koeman will have mostly the same bunch he started with. If you can't do that you won't get the chance the play with the expensive toys.

A manager, any manager has to show he can improve his players. That is the minimum requirement I would hope.

But you seem happy with paying the chap ٤m a year and have nothing to reproach the man for until he gets a load chequebook players and has enough time to hang himself like the previous manager.

Ambitious well run businesses don't show that level of benevolent, paternal patience anymore.

If he can't do it and sort it quickly there's someone out there who can regardless of the playing stock.

Add to that 'his' recruiting has been questionable anyway.

James McGuinness
144 Posted 08/01/2017 at 03:01:46
Even though today's result was hard to take, all this Koeman out talk and the constant negativity that has set in at this club post Moyes, needs to stop. The man is refreshingly honest and has one of the best managerial (and player) CV's our club has seen in a long long time. He knows what he's doing and he needs time. We need to stop comparing to other clubs, we're in transition and this will take time with Koeman.

He brought off Barkley today for a striker. People forget this. He brought Holgate off for a winger. Remember when Moyes used to shut up shop for a draw and we bemoaned not being more adventurous/attacking. The problem today and the main problem with our squad is the mentality and ability of the current batch of players. Many of them have already had their last chances to prove something but they're still on the payroll. Koeman has to deal with what he has got at the moment.

By the end of this season/start of next season 3 things are likely to have happened and we should be optimistic as blues

1) Most of the deadwood will have been removed and Koeman's players he wants in will be up and running.

2) The new stadium plans will show signs of actual progress.

3) We will be playing in the Europa League by finishing 7th in the League this year, which is very probable. (Via a Man Utd - Liverpool League Cup Final and two of Spurs, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool, Man City or Arsenal being in the FA Cup Final.)

Happy Days Blues!

Soren Moyer
145 Posted 08/01/2017 at 03:38:19

My thoughts exactly. Not only our abysmal performances from last year have not been improved this season; on the contrary, we have regressed this season. In fact I cannot remember a decent game under Koeman (well, perhaps the second half of the Gooners game).

I also blame the board and the players. They only care about their bank accounts and give fuck all about the long suffering fans.

And, I'm afraid there won't be any significant signings during this window – nor the next one.

Gavin Johnson
146 Posted 08/01/2017 at 03:49:45
Has anyone heard anything about the rumour that Koeman and the board aren't happy with Steve Walsh?
Will Mabon
147 Posted 08/01/2017 at 04:55:29
Unsurprisingly, and as usual, the argument is split about evenly between the two main points of view in the debate – is it the players, or is it Koeman?

It's both of course, it's everything. Football is a simple game at heart, but composed of many subtle complexities. There are many elements involved, many views, as someone showed above. The number of variables is enormous, and they vary in effect.

This is the reason that results like today's can & do happen... losing at home to a team that we recently beat at their ground (I wonder how sounded the Leicester fans' inquest after that?). There are always random elements. It's about keeping them to a minimum.

Due to this nature of football, someone needs to be in a position to keep control as far as is possible, and that's the manager. He has to set the tone, the tactics, the direction. He has to make the required changes – support, criticize, motivate, amend, adapt, and on. On top of it all, he then has to shoulder the responsibility. It goes with the job.

The players too, have their to-do list. We all know some of what's on it, and even allowing for their varying abilities, we know when we aren't seeing it. We rarely know the real reason why we aren't seeing it – as fans, we have no access to the inner sanctum, and are left to speculate 90% of the time.

We therefore can only work with what we know for sure, what we see and hear. In players, lack of effort and mistakes are simple to diagnose. Good passes, tackles, shots, covering, saves – those too. The whole tactical intent however, movement, positioning, playing style, motivation, how it all comes about; we don't intimately know what's behind it.

It should be the manager, 100%. If there is any autonomy, that too should be set by him. Yet today we have him blaming the players (three times) for dropping back. He's unable to communicate this? In training or during the game?

I wasn't at the game, and saw only highlights. Was he his almost usual self, sat motionless on the bench? Going only on what I read here, the substitutions seem a little hard to read.

What is undeniable: this guy is a blamer. The die is now well cast, it's happened too many times. I can't believe the players would still be strongly behind him at this stage. Now, it seems he might be leaning on others in the club re player acquisitions.

We don't know the precise terms upon which Koeman took the job, how defined and firmly promised was the investment. It looks more and more as if this is a manager whose modus operandi leans firmly towards the buying-in route to success.

He's showing absolutely minimal evidence of being able to develop and maximize what he already has. The players in the last month have certainly upped their effort and commitment. Most are also some way better than we're seeing, I believe. We've seen it in the past. So I don't believe they're all lazy, big timing, hiding, conning...

I'm about sick of this whole, relatively recent, "His team" concept in football. Is this ever a let-off for a manager. From the moment he took the post, it became his team.

Maybe Koeman believes he is on the end of broken promises. Maybe he is. That's between him and the board. Certain issues with the players are not for public broadcast either. He'll pretty quickly alienate himself at this rate. Hell, it will be the fans fault next.

Steve Brown
148 Posted 08/01/2017 at 04:56:26
As someone who has defended Koeman, I think it is not good enough for him to say "Look how crap the squad is so what are you going to do about it Steve Walsh?"

HIS decisions made a material impact on that game. Coleman should have been taken off before Holgate, he switched from 4-4-2 just before the goal, taking off Valencia and bringing on Mirallas on the left where he is totally ineffective. Then he brings on Kone for Barkely!

He was stood on the touchline when we went 1-0 up and should have immediately switched it back to the 4-4-2 and told them to keep the pressure on. Instead, we left Lukaku isolated up front and invited them on to us.

But the players as well! Coleman has zero positional awareness for runs, Williams and Funes Mori were shocking, Barry was almost immobile, Mirallas was as ever ineffectual and the rest were just not good enough. Only Baines, Davies, Rom and Deulofeu with that run (what happened to that guy?) did not totally shame themselves.

But everyone at this club needs to take responsibility for their failings – the chuckle brothers, Kenwright and Elstone, the PLAYERS, Steve Walsh if he blows this transfer window (his first), and you, Mr Koeman, for getting your tactics and substitutions so badly wrong during the game.

Will Mabon
149 Posted 08/01/2017 at 05:09:24
"Even though today's result was hard to take, all this Koeman out talk and the constant negativity that has set in at this club post Moyes, needs to stop. The man is refreshingly honest..."

There's a way to be honest, James. Koeman is now cementing his tendency to lay the blame with anyone but himself. If not this, then he has a lack of diplomacy re. the club, greater than any other manager I can easily recall.

Why did we see/hear none of this during his time at Southampton? Something's not right behind the scenes, I believe. He's becoming a negative influence – and that can never work.

Chris Williams
150 Posted 08/01/2017 at 05:15:43
According to Moshiri, Koeman was the first choice and the only choice, and time and money was spent on getting him in. So I doubt he's going anywhere unless he chooses to do so. He has previous in this.

He saw the omni-shambles of the last window, and was far from impressed. Evertonians will have been unsurprised by how things turned out. Moshiri came out and explained that the players they wanted, Slimani, Perez and Sissokho went to Leicester, Arsenal and Spurs, all of whom were in Europe. This gives us the clue about what we are looking for. Add to this the loss of Bolasie.

Now he is frustrated that the same dithering and general buggering about is happening again and is letting it be known. In fact, he allied himself with Walsh in his original quote but that bit seems to be edited out in some versions.

Are Evertonians surprised that we appear to be buggering about again? Has not pretty much every window been a masterclass in buggering about and penny-pinching?

I think we need to be looking at the usual suspects here and Koeman, I suspect, is saying this.

Moshiri needs to listen – and stop listening to Bill.

Paul Rimmer
151 Posted 08/01/2017 at 05:20:36
Moshiri got rid of Martinez as our league position wasn't good enough. He brought in Koeman as someone who achieved 7th with a relatively poor Southampton squad so was a safe bet. The cup competitions are (were) a mere distraction as it's the league that matters to them and we'll more than likely finish seventh.

Koeman is no better than a Moyes, Pulis or Allardyce though. An authoritarian with little tactical nouse other than to launch it. There is no Plan B other than to throw more forwards on if it's going pear-shaped. Whilst we may be fitter than under Martinez we have no style. His managerial record is actually mediocre.

Moshiri will ditch Koeman once the ship has been steadied – I think at the end of the season but maybe next. Steve Walsh is the key man here. We need him to find young, hungry players like Gana to replace the current apathy. There are too many players who don't care – like Cleverley, Lennon, Mirallas, Gibson, Lukaku – some who aren't good enough – Oviedo, Stekelenburg, Valencia, Kone and some who are past it.

Long-term, I think Moshiri will bring us success, a new stadium and a team to be proud of. It won't be with Koeman though – he will oversee the transition like he did at Southampton when they saw big changes in the playing staff.
For us supporters, success can't come soon enough but we may have to wait a few years yet – maybe til after the first spade is in the ground at Bramley-Moore Dock. I honestly think we'll see Champions League football before we see silverware.

Chris Williams
152 Posted 08/01/2017 at 05:23:06
Just to clarify my comment re Koeman and Walsh, the original quote was reported in the Mirror and an early Echo report as 'That's Steve Walsh's job and my job'. The last reference to himself has been lost in later reports.

That seems to imply more solidarity than division.

Col Walker
153 Posted 08/01/2017 at 05:35:44
For those citing improvement, from 11th to 7th, we're as good as 11th in reality as 9 points behind 6th could easily be 11th in any other half season.

Sadly, I don't think Koeman is a good coach, he reminds me of Nick Faldo, brilliant player but arrogant and a hopeless leader of men (Ryder Cup). He wasn't naturally comfortable leading and they didn't want to follow, no matter how many majors he'd won.

The key word these days in sport is 'Leader' and IMO Ronald is an old fashioned out dated 'manager' and not a modern coach/leader. Sadly, unlike Herr Klopp, they're all very happy to be led by him and will run through brick walls to have that winning hug with him sickening I know, but it's the way forward and moody aloof Dutch PAST masters do not inspire! Koeman will be given time but I'm fairly sure it will be time wasted.

ps: Is his brother the very best coach he can muster for his Number 2 and assistant manager of EFC?!

Oh, and since Big Dunc became a 1st team coach we have been shite and that's a fact, folks! Love him or not, what's he brought to the table?!

Will Mabon
154 Posted 08/01/2017 at 05:35:52
Chris (#150) – even if everything you say is right, the public arena is not the place to discuss it (assuming there was no quote shift). You are so right re. the buggering about, though. We're the best!

Paul (#151) – some good points.

Chris Williams
155 Posted 08/01/2017 at 05:48:37
Will, it seems to be his way to speak out, but I agree with you in principle. It was in the aftermath of a crap display when he felt the players had let us and him down, but best he takes a deep breath and maybe sleeps on it.

It gives us an insight though into some behind-the-scenes issues and a possible conflict between the old ways and the new brooms.

I agree with him on this. I hope Moshiri does too.

Will Mabon
156 Posted 08/01/2017 at 06:07:13
Chris, I have a feeling we are going to see some interesting activity through the rest of the season...
Chris Williams
157 Posted 08/01/2017 at 06:24:57
Will, we certainly need to. After all the euphoria after the AGM and subsequent announcements, as soon as we get the ball out, we find that reality bites and nothing has changed.

At the ground yesterday, everything seemed flat – the crowd the team. I don't know if the dire first half was the cause, but was basically Leicester doing what Leicester do well and us lacking both the guile and physicality to break them down. Koeman changed things, one bright burst of sunlight and then capitulation. To a very quick, physical team.

I think Koeman has seen enough of these players, on match day and every day in training, to have had enough. He hasn't lost the players; they have lost him!

James Hill
158 Posted 08/01/2017 at 07:05:07
There are a lot of people pointing out the mistakes that Koeman made today, but few are offering any suggestions as to any alternatives that would have been better.

We are allowed a squad of 25; we are lucky if we have 15 real choices that we could feel comfortable putting on the pitch, let alone bring on as a sub and make a real difference.

On top of that, I would be reluctant to play our youngsters for fear of ruining there confidence for the future. I get that Barry is fading fast but who would you have played in his place today? Gibson?!?

Seriously, who would you replace from today's team and with who? Yes, it's a fucking shambles that has been 30 years in the making and you expect Koeman and Moshiri to turn it round in six months?

Get real, guys – this is a transition project and ain't going to happen over night. Taxi for Koeman? You must joking. Koeman is right to put the blame on the players – they did the same last season and the season before.

Ed Fitzgerald
159 Posted 08/01/2017 at 07:39:40
Peter @132

You claim all the players he brought have improved the team... err, how?

Gueye is a good little player, I will give you that, but that aside I'm not convinced about any of the others. Are you being serious when you say Williams is an improvement on Stones?? FFS take off your royal blue tinted glasses, will you. I suppose you would swop a Ferrari for a Ford Mondeo as well. There is no improvement the quality of football is Walter Smith-like and we are dreadful to watch.

Christine Foster, I don't buy the legacy argument, the squad Martinez had left was and is not bad at all and a coach would have been able to lift them not demoralise them. A good manager bollocks his players in private, supports the team and club in public and takes responsibility with things don't go well. That should be the response of any sane leader in any walk of life. Conte, Klopp, Ranieri and many other coaches share their enthusiasm that builds belief on and off the pitch Koeman just whines like a child 'it's not my fault' I am sick of it..

If I was Moshiri I'd give him a kicking in public for talking down the club and the board who for once are making things happen. We would do no worse with Unsworth in charge until the end of the season.

Sometimes in a relationship, you are better ending it early – particularly if your supposed partner is just after the money you have, shows you no affection, and runs you down in public.

Ian Hollingworth
160 Posted 08/01/2017 at 08:12:05
I accept Koeman is far from convincing so far. However, is he not subtly highlighting issues that have been around for a long time?

Yes there are positive sounds from behind the scenes but actions speak louder than words for me. Some of our players are clearly not good enough and you can question the commitment from some of them also.

Regardless of manager, stadium etc we need better quality players and we need them now. This current bunch royally piss me off on a regular basis. To go out of both cups in the first round at home is unacceptable. No trophy in 21/22 years is unacceptable. Derby results and performances are unacceptable. To be playing for 7th place at best is unacceptable.

Bold actions are required; I am sick of words.

Paul Bradley
161 Posted 08/01/2017 at 08:26:46
Well said ,Ronald Koeman, for the first time we have a manager that speaks the truth. He is saying basically what we have been saying for the last two seasons, the squad is not good enough, the same squad of players that got Martinez the sack.

Koeman has been sold a dream to come to Everton to prize him away from Southampton. Now the owners are responsible. When you look at our squad of players, with the exception of the youngsters and Lukaku, which players would play for any of the top 10 teams? Some would struggle to play in the Premier League again.

As Evertonians, we have to realise what we have, a mediocre squad of players. Please do not turn on Koeman or he will be off to a much better team, as he is not the type to suffer fools gladly. In my opinion, the only real class act we have is Ronald Koeman

Sam Hoare
162 Posted 08/01/2017 at 08:31:16
I'm not sure what to think. Don't think it's productive to sack managers without giving them a proper bite of the cherry but equally I can't disagree with those citing a visible lack of progress or philosophy.

Given there's little to play for, we might as well give this highly reputed manager the rest of the season to show he can forge an effective team, I suppose. There have been some better results of late and losing to the Champions (albeit weakened) is not the most embarrassing cup exit we have had or will have.

Irrelevant of what Walsh and Co manage in the transfer market the burden now is on Koeman to show he can get the best out of what he has. That's the minimum that should be expected of any top manager.

Stephen Brown
163 Posted 08/01/2017 at 08:32:31
The season is effectively over for us now so this is the perfect opportunity to test some of the potential from the U23 team. Give the likes of Davies, Dowell, Holgate and Walsh extended opportunities rather than being 'ripped off' during the January window all for the glory of finishing 7th!!

Then the saved money can be put towards a real squad overhaul in the summer hopefully with the now proven u23 players as part of that!

God, it's frustrating being an Evertonian – one step forward... two steps back!

Ian McDowell
164 Posted 08/01/2017 at 09:05:40
I suspect from Koeman's comments he is getting fed up with the amateurish way in which we still handle transfers.
Mike Green
165 Posted 08/01/2017 at 09:10:17
Stephen #163 - "one step forward, two steps back!"

Absolutely! I don't know how many times that conclusion went through my head last night – could be our new motto!

"Gredi unum, duo gradus retro" (or something like that!)

Dennis Heaton
166 Posted 08/01/2017 at 09:11:38
After all the hype in the week,we were dished up that load of crap yesterday, well Lukaku may not be the best footballer in the world but he has proved that he can score goals in an over-rated crap team and I would not blame him if he left this load of below-average players behind.

The manager has got a lot of work to do now. First job must be to ship all the crap players out to any team that will have them (too many to name here) and install some of the kids in now. See where we are in the summer, then start from scratch, assuming we are still in the Premier League.
Jon Withey
167 Posted 08/01/2017 at 09:48:08
The season is borderline over now. I'm glad he's not a happy bunny.

There is no point getting rid of Koeman, he has half a season probation now to see if he can turn it around.

If we had £100m to spend it would get us further in the summer so I'm not convinced we should spunk it now just to save Koeman face.

I expect he has this season at least and probably some of next. The big test is on Walsh's squad building, I would've thought – even if Koeman leaves.

Nigel Munford
168 Posted 08/01/2017 at 09:50:30
Sam, I think he is getting all he can out of what he has, that's why he's frustrated.
Ian Riley
169 Posted 08/01/2017 at 10:22:01
The season is over really but, if we were honest, our squad at present is not good enough to win a trophy. A reality check yesterday with lack of desire and hunger to battle to win games.

We simply don't have players up for it or ability to carry out the managers orders. First half performances this season have been awful.

Koeman can't do the bullshit with the media. He is struggling to defend his own players. New players is not an if but essential. Stuff all talk of new stadium. On the park must be improved now! So gutted to go out of the cup in the third round at home.

Koeman should be judged this time next season. He would have had three transfer windows and 18months in charge. Martinez had three years and look at the mess he left.

Nigel Munford
170 Posted 08/01/2017 at 10:28:00
If the board don't back him with getting the players he wants then I believe he will resign. As far as the media are concerned, they ask, and he tells it as he sees it.

Not sure what he should do, what Martinez did last season and waffle a load of rubbish about how good the team was when it clearly wasn't. I do like his honesty compared to Martinez's waffle.

Anto Byrne
171 Posted 08/01/2017 at 10:28:33
Let's have some perspective here. 11 seasons of Moyes and 3 with Martinez. The playing list isn't great, there seems to be quite a few hangers on, end of last season Hibbert Osman and Pienaar were all looking for contract extensions. Barry and Gibson get new deals FFS.

We all wanted a new keeper after Howard as Robles will fluff his lines more often than not and Stekelenburg is cover. We all know that Baines has had better days and not withstanding injuries is not the player from 10 seasons back.

Coleman nice guy but headless chicken getting forward. Jagielka the signs were clear last season and Funes Mori (well I think he can improve) Barry supposed to be a defensive midfielder but as the Shite demonstrated he does not have the legs for a fast paced game and is guilty of slowing the team down to a crawl.

Williams was good for Swansea but then he had 3 other big defenders with him and a half decent keeper.

McCarthy is too prone to injury and we have Gana.

Barkley has no support or anyone giving him the guidance he needs aka Peter Reid or Gravesen maybe an Arteta.

Mirallas our most talented footballer but is down right selfish and not imo a team player. Lennon is a lemon. Deulofeu better in the middle not getting seven sorts of shit kicked out of him, spots a pass has pace and has improved defensively. Kone why? Bolasie misfit in this team.

Lukaku is world class on his day but looks like an average donkey sometimes. Don't think he is suited to the lone striker role but when your on a 100 grand a week you better learn. The kids all have potential.

Valencia I have not seen enough of to form an opinion, has pace is two footed and scored a good goal when we needed one. I'm looking for about 6 players who can play with gusto and want to win at all costs.

Koeman has another 18 league games to put this right and January to bring in some players to make a difference. Let's hope he can do it.

Trevor Lynes
172 Posted 08/01/2017 at 10:31:46
This manager is not going to stay long unless he is backed fionancially.Moyes and to a lesser extent Martinez both toed the company line and covered for the boardrooms lack of investment.Moyes could have stayed forever but became frustrated eventually and left.I have said many times that Moyes had the safest job in the whole division as this clubs main ambition was survival in the Premier league.Anything above that was a bonus.The fans have been for years the only investors in our club.Fans on here think our players are better than they are, they laud our lads whenever we win a match and compare them favourably with Liverpool, the Manchester clubs and now the London clubs.In truth they are a pretty average bunch with one top striker who gets starved up front.We have lacked creativity since before Moyes reign as Arteta was never in the same class as todays creative players.He was a decent player with better ball control than the others on our books.Pienaar had a purple patch along with Baines but now we totally lack any goal threat without Lukaku.We are a second tier side as likely to join the 3rd tier as we are to join the elite.Moshiri promised £100 million transfer investment plus whatever is made from player sales.So far his investment amounts to about £5 million and we are one third into the transfer window.Paying off debts with an interest free loan does not improve the spectacle on the pitch.We have been talking of signing first team players and so far we have not.We are introducing young players but the nucleus of the side is the one that cost Martinez his job.We need not only Schneiderlin and Depay at this window.We need a real play maker, a midfield general who calls for the ball and gets the best out of our attack.We need a second striker who can score double figures alongside Lukaku and create space for our lone ranger.Barkley will never make a midfield general as he only produces in patches.In all honesty I have never seen him have a brilliant 90 minutes.He does great things very infrequently and the fans who have been starved of real class dine out on these scraps.Koeman will remain, but only if he gets supported in the transfer window.No manager can make a silk purse out of a sows ear.The players we have are not good enough. Period !
Tony Abrahams
173 Posted 08/01/2017 at 10:46:42
I'm glad you mentioned the Moyes/Martinez ethos, Christine, because it definitely goes that far back. This isn't an excuse for Koeman, because although his country might be Liberal, he just doesn't seem to have a very open mind in how to get the best out of the squad in front of him.

After leaving Everton, Moyes said that the squad of players he left behind didn't really need a manager but they got one who was the polar opposite anyway. It worked at first, but the players were being asked to do things they didn't like, so they stopped trying.

I could understand it even if I don't agree with it in the case of Chelsea, whose players have got rid of managers in the past, but then gone on to better things when a new manager has been appointed. But when a football club lowers its expectations and coming 6/7th, is acceptable, then it's no wonder they don't really need a manager?

Koeman, hasn't done a lot right, and the only time we have looked like a team with any real direction, is when playing 4-4-2. Why can't we start games this way and revert to 5-4-1,when trying to see a game out, especially when using players with such limited pace in key areas of the football pitch.

We went backwards yesterday once we changed our formation and started to get over-run in the middle of the park; if a manager who is being paid ٤ Million a year can't react to this, then we are in trouble. I think he took Barkley off yesterday because the kid must be frustrating the life out of him, but even he must have known at the time that it wasn't for the good of the team?

A rant I know, especially because I'm no expert, but the earlier poster who said that Shearer learned so much off Dalglish does seriously make me also question what Duncan Ferguson is actually doing? I haven't kicked a ball for years but I would bet anyone anything I had that I could make Lukaku a much better player, especially considering he thinks he's so much better than he actually his.

Clive Lewis
174 Posted 08/01/2017 at 10:50:26
I think Koeman does not seem to know where to start; it appears that he is distancing himself from transfers claiming it is Steve Walsh's job. Does he not have any input in players whom Steve is going to suggest?

Is he preparing himself from blame if things don't improve with the new transfers? £6 million a year – not really anyway near value as yet.

Tom P Owen
175 Posted 08/01/2017 at 10:55:38
I think a lot of Koeman's comments boil down from a disappointing summer window, and now he sees the club haggling Man Utd over a deal for Schneiderlin.

United are requesting over 㿀million, the full-price that they paid for him two years ago, a player who has failed to establish himself. I can understand the club wanting to get the best deal for the club, but at the same time, I can understand Koeman's annoyance at promises probably not being delivered.

Koeman hasn't stuck around with many of the clubs he has managed at, for whatever reason. But I wonder whether he will see it through to the end of the season or not. I'm not sure Mr. Moshiri will appreciate Ronald's comments in the public domain.

Tony Hill
176 Posted 08/01/2017 at 10:59:09
I agree with Steve Brown (#148) and Chris Williams (#150). I suspect there are tensions, to put it at its lowest, behind the scenes and Koeman's words yesterday effectively confirm it.

I have never thought it sensible to have the old guard lingering on after Moshiri's arrival. Kenwright, Elstone and their recently appointed supporters on the Board are bad news as far as I'm concerned, they represent a style and culture which have had their day. In any walk of life, it never works if you have a fresh regime which is hampered by influential elements of the previous one.

That doesn't mean that Moshiri doesn't also have to prove himself, of course he does and I continue to reserve judgement on that, pending delivery. At the moment, there is a distinct impression that we are heading for a classic Everton car crash.

Whatever his shortcomings so far – and I agree that they are pretty obvious – Koeman in his tactless way is pointing to things which have long afflicted our club: mediocrity and inertia designed to serve the interests of those at the top. Add a dollop of distracting sentimentality and you have the total recipe.

Stan Schofield
177 Posted 08/01/2017 at 11:03:28
Koeman singling out a particular player again, this time Davies? I would beware of such praise.

Mike Keating
178 Posted 07/01/2017 at 11:04:55
Ray @ 40

He wasn't the only one who thought Delboy was a better option on the right and we scored almost immediately; before that we didn't look like scoring at all.

The really depressing thing is that we were almost at full strength and they fielded a weak side with little desire to win the game... until they realised how poor we are at the moment.

Colin Glassar
179 Posted 08/01/2017 at 11:10:02
I could just picture Bill and Bob squirming in a corner listening to Koeman's comment and BPB turning to his slimey sidekick and saying, "That is NOT a manager!".
Tony Abrahams
180 Posted 08/01/2017 at 11:17:17
Good point Colin, and Stan, I'm not really sure he was praising Davies, I think he was just using him as an example to most of our spineless squad.
Brian Harrison
181 Posted 08/01/2017 at 11:22:16
I think the biggest problem is the lack of connectivity between the players and Koeman, and the fans and Koeman. He came in and quickly identified something that most fans had said for the preceeding 2 seasons – that the players were not fit enough. But He has consistently criticized individuals, which does not build team spirit – you win or lose as a team. If he needs to criticize individuals do it at finch farm.

When you look at Conte and Pochettino and Klopp and Mourhino, their players would run through brick walls for their managers. You can see the passion they have for their teams, and it seems the Koeman doesn't have that same affinity with our players.

Usually new managers get a swell of affection from the fans even Martinez got this in his first season and a half.

Maybe because these aren't all his players that it is still very much a work in progress, although apart from Gueye his other buys haven't impressed. But the atmosphere at Goodison is as bad as it was under the last 12 months of Martinez's reign. So it doesn't bode too well for the future. Maybe Koeman is always going to be a manager who adopts the position of I expect you to play this way if you don't you are out, which is fine but that hardly generates a good team spirit.

Finally if he is prepared to let Deulofeu go and keep Lennon and Mirallas then I think it says a lot about his style of management. Yesterday Deulofeu came on and within minutes had delivered a killer pass to Lukaku. The fact that Lukaku had got himself marginally offside and still didn't finish is hardly his fault.

He was the only player in a blue shirt who looked remotely likely to open up Leicester's defense which he did for the goal. We only ever looked a threat when Deulofeu got on the ball, can we really let this lad leave while keeping players who are much older and lack his creativity.

Clive Lewis
182 Posted 08/01/2017 at 11:24:38
Koeman singled out Davies, however it took a long time for Koeman to even realise the talents of the youngsters.

Does Koeman have a clue? Is he trying to persuade everyone by using blame?

Honesty works well but negative Honesty directed at the players just equates to blame and blag.

Distances himself from inner workings and abilities of players, whom he knew about before getting the job. Not a massive mention of rebuilding in the early days.

During radio commentary yesterday, an interesting comment mentioned during a break in play . "Most of the Leicester players receiving instruction from Ranieri, Everton players not doing the same; are they scared of the manager or something?

I am getting the feeling that Koeman is disengaged, especially with the papers suggesting Barca have contacted him about next season's managerial position. I hope he goes – that will save us a few million.

Oliver Molloy
183 Posted 08/01/2017 at 11:25:13
For goodness sake, it's very obvious the club are dithering in the transfer market trying to save a couple of million here and there. Kenwright & Co have form in these matters, you could argue rightly so but not now with Moshiri the billionaire on board.

Koeman is ramping the pressure up, because he was let down in the first window, I think that is crystal clear. No matter if you think he is the right man or not, isn't it about time we had a guy telling the board these players are not good enough.

Get the money, buy the players and stop the fucking about. I've said it before and will do again, if an acceptable offer comes in for Barkley and Lukaku, watch what happens.

Tony Abrahams
184 Posted 08/01/2017 at 11:38:20
Disengaged, is the perfect description Clive. I didn't really see it as Koeman praising Tom Davies yesterday, I just felt it was more a dig at the more senior players.

Even though people have been saying for a while now that this kid should be playing instead of Barry, who has got a good hour in him against the lesser teams, and is just too slow now against the better ones.

If the fans can see it but the manager can't, then I'd also say the perfect description is, "He's disengaged."

Robert Elliott
185 Posted 08/01/2017 at 11:42:02
Couldn't agree more, Oliver. You'd have thought after the farce at the end of the last window the club would've been determined to make things happen as soon as the window opened but apparently not. Leicester had their new big money signing playing yesterday, where was ours?

If we can't get the Schneiderlin deal done, when the player isn't wanted by his club, appears keen to come and lives locally already, how the hell are we going to sign anyone when the circumstances are a bit more challenging? Whoever is conducting our negotiations needs reminding we're not shopping in the bargain basement anymore and the rest of the world knows it.

The days of them accepting offers from us spread over years and years because we're skint are over. Shame everyone realises that apart from us!

John Audsley
186 Posted 08/01/2017 at 11:42:18
Martinez was clearly insane, not a well man during his last two years at the club, but the players clearly gave up on him. The games against Liverpool, Leicester and Sunderland showed just how pathetic our players are and Koeman has only had months to sort this out. Name me one player who has a will for a fight when things go wrong??

Not one name comes to mind.

Brian Harrison
187 Posted 08/01/2017 at 11:51:01
Seems like we have gone from Dumb and Dumber in Martinez and Jones to the brothers Grim in Ronald and Erwin.
Ed Fitzgerald
188 Posted 08/01/2017 at 12:17:07
Ian Riley

With a shite manager and a crap squad, according to many of you on here, we reached two semi-finals last season. This season we have been knocked out at home early in both cup competitions, the quality of football played is fucking dire to watch.

He is unhappy is he? So are many of us with his tactics, statements to the media etc.

Andrew Clare
189 Posted 08/01/2017 at 12:23:13
Just as it seems that we are getting everything right off the pitch apart from retaining the person who is responsible for our deciline – Kenwright, we find that the the playing personnel are not good enough.

It is absolutely imperative that we sign five first team players in this window to turn things around and have us well placed for next season.

Also the Mancs have stated their price so why are we dithering. We need players now not at the 12th hour when we will definitely be paying over the odds. I have advocated that Koeman needs time but so far I am not convinced.

Chris Owens
190 Posted 08/01/2017 at 12:31:16
Koeman seems keen to pass all the blame onto the players, Steve Walsh and the board.

He himself is not blameless, with his poor team selections, motivation and statements to the press unsettling Barkley and Lukaku. He's still moping about our failures in the last transfer window, but if he had got on with the job and got the best out of what we have already, then we would be in a much better position to persuade top quality players to join us this time around to help with a big push towards Europe and/or silverware in the second half of the season. Partly (mainly?) because of him, we now have little chance of competing in Europe next season. It's not just down to how much money we have; players also look at a club's prospects before signing.

Remember that Steve Walsh, as director of football, is here for the long term. Why should he and the board trust Koeman's judgement, and (if reports are to be believed) spend 㿞m or more on other teams' rejects, when they might end up sacking Koeman at the end of yet another season of failure?

I suggest we keep our money for now, and tell Koeman to shut up and prove that he can "cut his coat according to his cloth", change tactics and manage the players he's already got.

Frank Crewe
191 Posted 08/01/2017 at 13:22:55
The fact is that, over the last 10 years or so, Everton has become a haven for has-beens and never-weres.

The likes of Baines and Jags are both entering their 10th season still as first choice players even though both of them are well over 30.

Gareth Barry signed in 2013. He was already 32 then. Will be 36 in February. Glaciers move faster than he does and a measly five goals scored in 116 league appearances.

Gibson has been with us since 2012. He's only made 51 league appearances and only 17 in the last three years.

McGeady, signed in 2014, has made a mere 32 league appearances and will probably never play for Everton again even though he still has at least two years left on his, no doubt, lucrative contract.

Kone signed 2013. Only 45 league appearances. 33 years old.

Oviedo signed 2012. Only 44 league appearances. Still only 26 but can't shift an ageing Baines.

Now Koeman has added a couple of his own ageing has-beens. Stekelenburg 34. No better than Robles. Williams 32. No pace. Bought for his leadership qualities apparently. So why isn't he club captain?

The whole squad needs a massive overhaul. We have to stop buying any player over 30. Or any player with a dubious injury record. These days, players have to be young athletes. Strong and pacey with plenty of stamina – and that's what we need to be looking for.

Stan Schofield
192 Posted 08/01/2017 at 13:29:00
Chris @190: Spot on.

When Koeman was appointed, the first job for him was to get the best performance from the existing squad, using appropriate tactics and organisation. That's why he's here in the first instance, he's supposed to be the 'expert'.

Any additional signings and/or replacements would be to get even further improvement. We haven't seen any INITIAL improvement.

Oliver Molloy
193 Posted 08/01/2017 at 13:48:54

In other words, no change – let's stand still like we have done for as long as we all can remember, billionaire or not , that really makes sense?

Koeman is not deflecting blame but he knows the game he wants to play and he obviously doesn't suffer fools who couldn't be bothered.

I read a piece by Shane Long some time ago that Koeman told him he had no chance of getting back into the Southampton side unless he showed more energy in training, so Long upped his effort but it still took him 3 or 4 months to get a start and that was due to an injury.

Long accepted that Koeman was a hard and tough manager but an honest man also – there was no messing about.

Moshiri has said this in a roundabout recently when he remarked "Koeman is Koeman" .

No, he is not totally blameless – he is the manager, but he can only work with what he's got and has a major job on his hands. I have said this already but players who know they are not in this manager's long term plans are not going to bother.

Why the fuck should he be massaging the egos of the likes of Barkley, Lukaku, Mirallas, Deulofeu etc.

Do you think these guys should be exempt from any criticism when they clearly deserve a rocket or two up their arses for too many average and inadequate performances on the pitch?

Enough of this "arm round the shoulder" it's been done to death with the likes of Barkley.

"Other teams' rejects" – isn't this how at least 75% - 80% of how football works ?

Mike Allen
194 Posted 08/01/2017 at 13:57:36
Show all the stats in the world... the only things that matter are that we have seen no improvement in either quality or attitude. I expected us to be at least more organised and competitive; a lot was said about our fitness – we still are way off the pace of other teams.

We are lacking in all departments and for me nothing has been addressed. Most are not good enough to warrant selection but not only are these players rotated, so is the system from game to game. It hasn't worked and that has been evident since the Norwich game.
Brian Harrison
195 Posted 08/01/2017 at 14:02:27
I think the first thing Moshiri should do is install a floor-to-ceiling mirror in Koemans office. With a sign on it saying "The buck stops here", so he will be under no illusion as to who is to blame for performances.

As for not signing the players he wants well I wonder if paying 㿄 million for a player that has hardly kicked a ball in a season and a half. He is even behind Fellaini as both the previous manager and the present manager pick Fellaini before him.

Then the other wonderkid Koeman wants to sign Memphis Depay, another who was discarded by the man who bought him and the present manager. These signings for mega bucks hardly get the pulses racing and maybe Moshiri thinks the same.

Yet no centre-forward on the horizon so it's Kone if Lukaku gets injured.

Allan Board
196 Posted 08/01/2017 at 14:03:18
Well done, Koeman, for telling the bloody truth! About time someone at Everton told Kenwright and his slimey mates what they are!

I said months ago that the fly in the ointment is Kenwright and if he still had any say then koeman would get pissed off-now its happened.

Typical of modern day football-the players get off scot free and the manager (a winner by the way) gets the abuse. The man does not have a magic wand, for Christ's sake!

Forget new stadiums, mega sponsorship deals and the like and get rid of Kenwright and his tosser mates first up!

It's them that ruin it all. On the cheap ,sell your assets first, protect our rake offs and fuck to winning anything -that would mean adding quality at our expense!

Oh, and the team is good enough for 7th or 8th but needs real money spent to buy the quality needed to attain top 4. Quality means that even if they have an off day, they still put in a 7 out of 10 performance,still enough to win most times.

That's the thing, form is temporary but class is permanent. Quality gives you class.

Top bloke, Koeman – a realist and not an idealist – I really can't see why they are pissing him about, just a bunch of amateurs in charge.

Sack him? The mind boggles!!!!!!!!!!

Bill Gall
197 Posted 08/01/2017 at 14:07:13
Why, if the reports are true, are we haggling over a couple of million pounds more for Schneiderlin? Did not Moshiri not say it wasn't the money that stopped them getting Sissoko as it is only monopoly money?

We are well aware that you do not want to pay over the odds but surely you have a top figure that you want to pay, you should just say sorry that was our final figure, and if it is refused move on before we end up with the usual farce of last minute deals on January 31st.

Tony Twist
198 Posted 08/01/2017 at 14:19:02
Koeman tries to deflect blame because he is immediately blamed by bad results and rightly so. He hasn't impressed me at all with his priority which is the way the team plays.

I respect his hard line as, God knows it shows, that this team has been pampered beyond belief with the lack of bottle and leaders apparent. I think he planned to come in with a hard line with how the players behaved with the previous manager, singling out certain players who he felt were bad influences but I think he has probably shot himself in the foot finding the amount of malaise throughout the team.

We have to stick with him and allow him to do the first layer of changes with the team and evaluate the managers performance then. I am not a fan of the manager since he arrived but he does have presence which might attract players who may not have considered us previously. We need two central midfielders and a striker for the first layer of changes. Over to you, Mr Walsh.

Tony Draper
199 Posted 08/01/2017 at 14:36:37
A proper top-drawer keeper.
A centre-half with a commanding persona.
A centre-mid who can win the ball, pick a pass and frighten the shit out of the opposition.
A Number 10 with cunning, first touch and can finish.
That would be a start.

Somehow, the following role models spring to mind...
Big Nev
Peter Reid

Chris Owens
200 Posted 08/01/2017 at 14:46:40
Oliver [193],

I'm not saying "no change" -– I want Koeman to change his team selection and tactics to suit what we already have.

Last season, it looked like we had a good enough squad, and we could have achieved much more if only Martinez had paid some attention to the defence. I was hoping that Koeman could build on that, by strengthening the defence. It looked as though that might happen when Stones left and Williams came in.

It seems we missed out on some of Koeman's targets in the summer (presumably) because they wanted European football, rather than just the higher wages we can now offer them. Koeman's job then was to get on with it, and work with what we have, until the next transfer window.

It looks to me like he's been sulking because he didn't get his way, rather than trying out different tactics and formations to fix our problems. This has meant we're now out of contention in all competitions, and no self-respecting top quality player will want to come here. That strikes me as poor management.

I stand by my statement about "other teams' rejects" in relation to Schneiderlin and Depay. Mourinho has said they can leave. We're not trying to buy Rashford or De Gea, are we?

We have nothing to play for now, so maybe we should wait until the end of the season, when players take a more thoughtful look at their career prospects, and there is a bigger chance of us prising players away from clubs who would prefer to keep them, as long as we can demonstrate we are serious about our ambitions to move up to the next level.

Bill Gall
201 Posted 08/01/2017 at 15:08:20
Chris... You can't demonstrate being serious about your ambitions by not trying to improve your squad at every opportunity, and end up in a lower position than we finished last season.

We have to bring in some quality players to improve – even if it means the best we can do is 7th.

As far as Koeman goes, he is not exactly filling us with expectations but, with only 4 months behind him, he has to be given a chance.

Guido Blumberg
203 Posted 08/01/2017 at 15:10:41
I have no doubt. We have the worst manager in the world. I do not understand how there are still fans who are defending him. That makes me more angry.

He expects a player who does not step on a pitch in 4 months and always had low level, to change the game. "Nil Satis Nisi Optimum", remember? Is Arouna Kone the best? With what goal did Ronald Koeman put him on the pitch? What a bad image we are giving with this guy.

Is Ronald Koeman a candidate to work in Barcelona? Maybe in the Barcelona of Ecuador and I think it's huge for Ronald Koeman.

Peter Jansson
204 Posted 08/01/2017 at 15:30:30
John (#143). Making the player better? You have to realize that Barkley, Mirallas, Lennon, Kone, and several others will never be better than they are now – no matter what coach you put in. That's it. If you blame Koeman for these guys not being good enough, you are totally out in the dark.

Do you think Koeman can put new software in their heads or something? It is not going to happen.

We need new players, not a new coach. That's it.

Lennart Hylën
206 Posted 08/01/2017 at 16:18:26
Koeman is wrong when he publicly criticizes his players. This is something that should be done behind closed doors. There he can say what he wants. They are professionals and need both bad and good criticism. He should also not, in public, criticize the leadership of EFC since he is very much a part of that.

As we say in Sweden, never throw a stone when you are in a conservatory. He has had time to get to know his players by now and a psychologist would never criticize in public. To be an excellent manager, you need to be a psychologist besides being a good coach. I had high hopes but now I really do not know what to hope for.
Craig Walker
207 Posted 08/01/2017 at 16:38:25
I got stick on here for suggesting all the players we have who aren't good enough. I was told my one fellow TWer that James McCarthy and Barkley were good players. We accept mediocrity by lauding players of this calibre.

Plymouth just went to Anfield and got a 0-0. Why are we like rabbits in headlights against the RS and whenever we go 1-0 up?

Why have we not had a top class goalkeeper since Martyn? Why have we no goals or guile in midfield? Why is our only goal threat never up for it?

I can see what is wrong why can't a succession of extremely well paid managers? Why do we bother?

Roger Helm
208 Posted 08/01/2017 at 16:45:49
Pretty much our whole squad is not fit for purpose, excepting Lukaku, Gana, Davies, Holgate and Bolasie, who is out for a year anyway. Too old, slow, injured, past-it, other clubs' cast-offs, unfit, mentally weak or a combination of the above.

It is a toxic mix of poor recruitment in the past (including by Koeman) and a weak ethos in the club, presumably fostered by Kenwright over more than a decade.

Everton are a nice club, very active in the community, very ethical, always ready to hand out long lucrative contracts to ageing, crocked "servants" of the club. No wonder our inferiority complex against the top clubs means we will never beat them or win anything. Our expectations are so low. So long as we stay in the Premier League and have an occasional cup run, that's good enough.

We need to buy more young hungry players, fit, strong and athletic, and no more long contracts to the over-thirties. We need a manager who can set them up to expect to beat the top teams regularly. Hopefully our new owners will bring a more ruthless and demanding mindset to the club.

I had hoped for more from Koeman. Even though our players are not that good, managers like Allardyce, Pulis and Moyes (not that I want them) manage to mould average players into something like a functioning team.

Andy Meighan
209 Posted 08/01/2017 at 17:15:24
Bill (#202),

How do you work out Koeman has only been here 4 months? Didn't he join the club in July? He's had plenty of time to put his stamp on the team.

But not once in his reign so far have we managed to put in a 90 minute performance so what does that tell you about the man. It tells me that he's got no motivational skills. No man management skills or no tactical skills.

It's like watching football from the Dark Ages, watching Everton under Koeman and believe me when I tell you no amount of big-money signings will make a blind bit of difference because this fella, in his albeit already short reign, hasn't got a clue how to get the best out of players.

When was the last time any of us walked out of Goodison and said, "That was brilliant" or words to that effect? His body language and demeanor reflect his playing style. Fucking dour.

Habib Erkan Jr
210 Posted 08/01/2017 at 17:22:36
Thank you, Ronald, Moyes was never so honest and Martinez was so delusional he could have served as North Korea's Minister of Propaganda.
Chris Owens
211 Posted 08/01/2017 at 17:34:54
Bill (#201),

My point is that we don't need to rush into paying over the odds for players now. Maybe if we were still in the FA Cup or realistically challenging for Europe, it would be worth a gamble to get overpriced players in for the final push.

But now, we might as well keep the money until the summer, when better quality players come onto the market, perhaps from relegated clubs (another Gana?) or players who are currently staying put until the end of the season because they are loyal to their teams.

Paul Burns
212 Posted 08/01/2017 at 17:38:05
Moshiri seems like another Kenwright to me, all mouth and no action.

Having one bullshitter has ruined our club; if he is a carbon copy of false promises and outright lies that Kenwright is, we are in really serious trouble and may have to start up a new club from scratch ourselves.

How many more transfer windows will we fuck up? How many more deals amateurishly messed up?

It's like fucking Groundhog Day or a Carry On film only without Barbara Windsor's tits.

Terry Underwood
213 Posted 08/01/2017 at 17:40:41
Maybe, just maybe, it was not all Roberto's fault.

Silk purses and Sow's ears spring to mind...

Brent Stephens
214 Posted 08/01/2017 at 17:50:14
"Moshiri seems like another Kenwright to me, all mouth and no action".

Agree. Year after year of Moshiri – and what's to show for it?

Max Murphy
215 Posted 08/01/2017 at 18:09:21
Our central defence is crap. I would like to see Funes Mori, Jagielka and Williams go, but we do not have the replacements. Williams is a decent Championship player and that's about it.

Is Koeman playing Barry for sentimentality reasons? He's slow and past his sell-by date, and McCarthy is not the answer either.

I've said it before he has to give Deulofeu a decent run in the side – at least 6 games. When he hits form, you'll see Lukaku score more goals – but he has to play regularly. Mirallas should also start every game.

For those of you harping on about still being 7th in the table, means Jack-Shit. The top six are in a different league – we're behind 6th place by 9 points! We have West Brom and Bournemouth breathing down our necks, and we'll do well to avoid the bottom half of the table.

On the plus side, we only have to wait until April/May of 2018 to see if we're in with a sniff of a trophy.

Gary Edwards
216 Posted 08/01/2017 at 19:01:34
Roger (208), We have lots of talented, young players playing in the ressies. They're top of Premier League 2, display good camaraderie and as a minimum generally put a shift (and a tackle) in. However Koeman seems to be unwilling to use them.

Some posters will remind me that Unsie has stated that most of them are not ready to step-up etc. but I honestly don't believe they could be any worse than the current 1st team.

It would be nice to see drastic measures taken e.g. supplement the U23 squad with Rom and Gana, bring in a top quality goalie, 2nd striker and a #10... but it will not happen and we'll continue to be mediocre at best, infuriating without doubt.

Meantime I'll placate myself with watching the Ressies – at least they wear the shirt with pride... and win far more than they lose.

Mick Davies
217 Posted 08/01/2017 at 19:02:51
I haven't read every post on here but a lot of them are defending Koeman, with statements about how the players have let him down, not good enough etc.

Let's look at the facts: He took over the side knowing several players were needed, so let's start from the back – We said goodbye (riddance?) to Howard, so were left with only one solitary (backup) keeper. Solution? He buys Fulham's (yes Fulham!!) reserve keeper, who at 34, is hardly going to improve.

In central defence, we have Jagielka, who everyone at the club knew, was past it 18 months earlier. We lose Alcaraz and Stones, so he replaces them with a 32-year-old, who hasn't had a break due to international duty. He doesn't like playing youngsters, so none of them will play there.

In midfield, the most important area of the pitch, we part with Osman, have Besic and Gibson permanently crocked, McCarthy becoming a serial casualty, and Barry finished. So he brings one player in, knowing that we'll lose him for a considerable amount of time, and gives Barry and Gibson new contracts.

In attacking positions, he immediately tells two players they have no future, doesn't strengthen the centre-forward position as he brings in a West Ham reject, knowing he's hardly going to play him, and never in attack. Lennon, Deulofeu, Barkley and Mirallas have been ineffective for at least a season, so he makes a record buy for a winger with a lousy scoring record. We are left with Lukaku to score ALL the goals, and pray he doesn't get injured.

Now for ٤m pa, I'd expect a manager to make sure he has a stronger squad than the previous season, or at least know he can remotivate the ones he works with. Sadly – unlike Moyes, who took over a demoralised and not very competent squad, and with only two months to go, pulled them from relegation candidates to almost Inter-toto qualifiers.

Koeman doesn't look like he is a very good man-manager, and his lousy managerial record doesn't seem to justify him being given the job in the first place

Sean Roberts
218 Posted 08/01/2017 at 20:10:10
The season is now over. We are out of both cup competitions and are not going to be drawn into a relegation fight unless we don't score a point in the next 10 games. So is this the time for Koeman to drop the players completely from the first team that he knows are not in his plans and replace them with the younger lads? I would say definitely yes but we all know this won't happen.

It's far to early in my view to be even thinking of changing the manager however I for one am really struggling to see how he wants us to play and to say he has been here for half a season I think that is cause for concern.

He may not have the players that he would ideally like to have but he has a squad of international level players so he should be able to set them up as he sees fit to win games or even at the very least to be competitive.

How many on here can describe to me what is the Koeman style??? Because I just don't know!!! However I would love to see the man succeed as that would been great things for our EFC!!!

Bill Watson
219 Posted 08/01/2017 at 20:18:41
Mick (#217),

You're assuming the incoming players were all Koeman's choices.

David Israel
220 Posted 08/01/2017 at 20:27:52
Having a go at the players, the board and Steve Walsh, all in one, sounds to me like a pretty disillusioned man speaking.

If we don't get a couple of good players in, this month, I think he may call that taxi himself.

And then what? Eddie Howe?

Aidy Dews
221 Posted 08/01/2017 at 21:34:32
Koeman isn't faultless by all means, he does make mistakes with team selections, tactics and subs, but he's clearly not happy with a lot of the players he has at his disposal! And let's be honest, he does have a lot of shite to choose from. But I like his honesty, whether that's about players or the board.

In the summer we had an average window tbf. Yes, we got a few good players In but he wanted and expected more and we failed. This time round I think he was hoping we'd of got our act together and been better prepared. It seems we're not and he's not happy about it!

We've all known Gueye was going to the AFCON and we've been in dialogue with Man Utd for well over a month with regards to Schneiderlin, maybe even Depay. I think Koeman was expecting him to be through the door already and it hasn't happened and he's now said so. I think Koeman was expecting maybe 2-3 key signings in through the door already but it hasn't happened.

He wants to see progress, he wants the board to get him his targets and it's not happening as quick as he wants and now he's getting annoyed.

We need to fuck Kenwright & Elstone off from dealing with transfer negotiations and let Walsh and the Russian fella do it and let Moshiri give the go ahead on fees. Kenwright and his pal are still trying to haggle in talks as if we're skint and that's what is slowing deals down. Just go out and get the man what he wants!

Moshiri in the week said we haven't got much time to try and bridge the gap, get us to a level of the rest of the elite in the league as he says, and that this transfer window is a window of opportunity for us and that he's committed to pushing us on. Well, it's now time for actions and not words, he's got to put his money where his mouth is and back Koeman and give him the proper tools to work with!

Then, for me, we can really judge Koeman as they'll be no excuses on his part once he gets what he wants to be able to do the job in the manner that he does.

It's a massive window for us, this... and it's just got really interesting after Koeman's comments. Now it's time for the board to put up!

John Pierce
222 Posted 08/01/2017 at 22:04:32
A lot of derision on the substitution to bring Kone on. Had nothing to do with the game. If the self-styled albino Pele scores, Koeman is amazing; however ,he was brought on as a pawn.

Specifically to demonstrate the paucity of options open to him; then the rant post match. Almost if it were planned?

Terry Underwood
223 Posted 08/01/2017 at 22:37:44
Posters need to get real, we have just paid 㾶M to get shot of one failed manager. No financial backer is going to make a habit of this, It just ain't possible.

We have Koeman and as far as I can see will have him for the foreseeable future. For better or worse, he will play out the next two seasons at least. Hopefully, things will turn around, then won't we all feel silly for doubting?

Soren Moyer
224 Posted 08/01/2017 at 22:48:51
David #87,
And Pochettino.
Paul Hewitt
225 Posted 08/01/2017 at 23:00:55
Koeman has given this squad plenty of chances. I think Saturday was the final straw for a lot of them.
Stan Schofield
226 Posted 08/01/2017 at 23:18:44
Many comments about Koeman are polarised, either for or against, either give him several years or sack him now. The reality is that as a manager he is under constant review by his employer, who monitors his progress and looks for signs of improved performance. That's certainly what I would do, particularly paying ٤M/year.

I'm not his employer, but I have a stake in Everton, having supported for 56 years. As such, I also review his performance. I have been supportive from the start, and agree that time is needed to get us to a consistent top-6 status, and maybe eventually to a position where we are comparable with the great 60s and 80s sides. All of that requires patience of course.

Having said that, in the meantime I would be expecting to see some improvements in performance, gradual, incremental improvements in organisation and tactics. Improvements that make us better defensively compared to the Martinez era, but also build upon the attacking flair and talent of players that was apparent during that time. Unfortunately, I see little if any of such improvement.

In my opinion, Koeman's job at the moment is to get the best out of the skills he has at his disposal, towards the improvements I expect to see. He should be focusing on what players can do, rather than (especially publically) on what they cannot do. He should be putting in place organisation and tactics to achieve this NOW. Instead, he appears to repeat the mantra of 'pressing'. Pressing is fine, but to be effective it has to be on the back of a clear system, organisation, tactics. I see none of that.

I am concerned by his continual focus in the media on individual players, rather than on his managerial duties. This strikes me as a diversion from management responsibility. The players have responsibilities as professionals, but the manager has a higher responsibility.

He's livid, is he? He gets paid ٤M/year. I bet he's not as livid as we are.

Ian Riley
227 Posted 08/01/2017 at 00:05:33
Ed (#188),

Koeman must be given at least eighteen months to turn things around. Martinez did get us to two semi-finals last season and probably deserved another year based on that.

Sacking Koeman now will achieve what? He knows he is under pressure to succeed. Still the same rubbish next year and he will be gone.

If the club don't bring in players, then let him go and get Martinez back. Won a cup at Wigan and relegated them.

Mick Davies
228 Posted 09/01/2017 at 00:14:46
Bill @ 219, Mick # 217
You're assuming the incoming players were all Koeman's choices.

I hope they were! HE'S the boss - HE'S being paid a scandalous amount of money to build a team, so why wouldn't they be his choices?

Will Mabon
229 Posted 09/01/2017 at 06:51:16
Stan, post 226; that says it all just about perfectly.

Who'd have thought in the summer, we'd be having these discussions by the start of 2017?

Mike Green
230 Posted 09/01/2017 at 07:45:58
Mick (#217) – great summary.

In Bill's defence, I think the way recruitment works with Koeman is he doesn't actually select the players, he tells Walsh what he wants (i.e. the type of player) and he has to find someone who fits the bill. Hence the emphasis he put on Walsh in his FA Cup exit interview.

From there they both have to agree before they go for whoever it is though, so he does get a say as I understand it. If that's the philosophy then he has to get more out of what he's got – that after all is his job, not Walsh's.

I would also probably describe his record as "patchy" rather than "lousy"?

Paul Smith
231 Posted 09/01/2017 at 09:26:37
Mick (#217),

I have only read your first 2 paragraphs and your on the nail. Koeman needs to look at himself for a fraction of blame.

Everything about this club stinks lately. From hiring 3 or for scouts only for them to spot 28-year-olds and claim it's a shrewd deal. We brought a 71-year-old scout in who has a claim to fame for convincing Allardyce to sign Anelka when he was 27... haha. I am a scout if this is the case.

Then we have Ronald who gets off on holiday before pre-season when he could have been in work. We had lost four players and possibly Stones at that point and he is on holiday.

Then the fans are mostly embarrassing. Social media is pointing the finger at Kenwright again simply because Moshiri is the saviour and they can't be wrong about Kenwright. Bill is a soppy lunatic but when Moshiri says he's our biggest fan, that's okay. If Moshiri and his army fail to deliver, it's Kenwright's fault.

The mentality surrounding this club is close to imploding. Now there is massive calls to over pay for Scheiderlin when our season is over. £25 mill for a player who hasn't been getting a game. I don't mind the lad but what is the point in blowing more money? By the time he hits the ground running, he's 28 with no sell-on fee. Stinks of desperation.

Paul Smith
232 Posted 09/01/2017 at 17:23:42
I am also sick of seeing people afraid or reluctant to give Koeman or any non-Evertonian a shred of blame. Sort your emotions out – you're the more important men (fans) at Goodison – not a man who is tied to us for 3 years.

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