Jagielka laments two points dropped against United

Just add, "especially Romelu 'Champions League, my arse' Lukaku" at the end there, lad, and it would have been perfect.

In Moyes last season we were chasing the top four and had away games at Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea from April to May knowing a win in one would give us a great chance of getting 4th... Nope couldn't do it. Couldn't win any of them, usual late equaliser conceded in the draw at White Hart Lane.

Last season, we concede last minute goals at Bournemouth, do exactly a carbon copy at Chelsea, and then go one worse and lose the F.A Cup Semi Final to Man Utd with the last kick.

This season the same mistakes, similar late costly goals in vital games against Liverpool and Man Utd, with virtually the very last kick.

It's just same shit, different day.

Not having a go at Jags, he was solid at United but it's insulting to talk about learning from these painful lessons when it's apparent to every man and his dog... we just DON'T LEARN.

Jags was superb on Tuesday night, I have to add.

Not counting their ' dodgy ' offside goal being disallowed and the fact that they hit the woodwork twice.

In retrospect, we were extremely unfortunate to come away with a point, thanks to Jags goa,l that someway managed to creep in. If we conceded a goal like that there would be outcry for a public hanging... Certainly on this thread anyway..

We can criticize the fact that Lukaku didn't square to Mirallas in the first half, or Barkley in the 2nd half, who were better positioned... Oh, and the substitution of Mirallas.

We cannot certainly bemoan the error by Williams, as he did it with pure defensive instinct. The lads gave their salt in this encounter and it was a titanic effort.

Some people think that since Koeman came in , he just has to add water. At this present time we are a 7th placed team and holding out quite well.

Please give the management a break, we are in transition. I am not saying that Koeman is the answer. I am simply implying that we can hold fire on him, for at least one more season.

I'm sick of our players coming out in the media with empty rhetoric. Last week, our players were in the press saying they were going to put in a performance at Anfield for Seamus. Jagielka, being the club captain is the biggest culprit. Just keep your trap shut and show up on the pitch. To be fair, Jags probably came out of our last two games with the most credit.

Koeman definitely made mistakes at Old Trafford. I don't think we can have it both ways though. He tried to keep what we'd got and threw kids into the fray and it didn't work. Last season, we were too gung-ho and relied on players who were past it.

I just hope Koeman can learn from this mistake. I'm still happy with our manager on the whole.

Calvert-Lewin was also awful, he was supposed to be fresh legs, he didn't even chase the ball when they were playing it around at the back. Valencia should have come on for Rom after 75 minutes and we would have seen out the game / scored another on the counter.

At the end of the match every single player came over to the away fans and gave us applause, even with their disappointment at the end. Except for one. Romelu Lukaku. Instead he stood in the centre-circle talking to Pogba for about minutes and I even saw him waving to someone in the crowd at the opposite side of the stadium. Never even so much as a clap for us away fans, straight down the tunnel.

I for one wont be singing his name again in the stands. Great potential player and hes done great for us, scored lots of goals, but when he's publicly made his mind up he wants to leave, followed by not giving 100% for the shirt, complete disrespect. We should retract our contract offer in case he changes his mind, get the money and lets buy some players who want to give 100% for the club.

I think it's something we have been saying for some time now, Barkley is 24 this year he should be taking games like Tuesday or the Merseyside derby by the scruff of the neck and relishing the occasion, but he just doesn't possess the intelligence or character to push on.

Osman had a fraction of Barkley's potential but he made up for it with having a very clever football brain plus he was quite a tough character mentally.

We have been rather clouded by the judgment of Barkley being a boyhood blue we have desperately wanted him to succeed but the reality is he's not going to get any better than what he is now and I don't care what Opta indexes are out there comparing him with Dele Alli at Spurs, I watch enough football to see that one player is massive to their respective teams productivity and one is a bystander and passenger more often than not.

It doesn't take a lot to work out which one is which.

Dele Alli has 19 goals and 6 assists this season. Say no more.

That, for what is our only real attacking central midfielder is a major letdown.

He's doing alright.

https://twitter.com/OptaJoe/status/842373573738131456

I have to say the performance was good at Old Trafford and we were very unlucky not to win with the late goal almost making it feel like a defeat when most would have been happy with a point before the game.

On a different note, I seem to remember Holland making a last gasp substitution in a World(?) Cup, bringing on Tim Krul for the penalty shootout because he had a great record on penalties.

My thought on Tuesday was that we should do the same with Stekelenburg – it would have delayed and disrupted things from manure's perspective but also he made those two great penalty saves at Etihad earlier in the season, suggesting he's good/lucky when facing them.

As a fan on here pointed out last week, Ross never takes a game by the scruff of the neck, never runs a game. For a player with two good feet and power in his shots with both feet, how many shots does he have at goal, especially from distance/

He hasn't improved much since he first played and, at nearly 24 years of age, he doesn't look like he will get much better, although he will make a good living out of the game.

Strange logic using Leon Osman to lead into such a statement. The same Leon Osman who was turning out for Derby County on loan at the age of 23 and didn't become a first-team regular for Everton until the ripe old age of 24. Surely, that player must have improved somewhat over the years to secure and retain a place in a Premier League squad until he retired? If he can improve his game, why can't Barkley at the same age?

Actually, it would be more accurate to ask 'why can't Barkley continue to improve his game', as he already has, both this season and last, even if it's still some way off the 'superstar' standard some seem to expect he should be at by now (for some reason).

He had a bad derby day, as did everybody else in blue, and wasn't decisive enough against Man Utd, but immediately prior to that he was putting in consistently good performances and had people singing his praises for stepping his game up.

I always thought that Osman would be looked on more favourably when he finished playing for us than when he was out on the pitch. The same people near where I sit who gave Osman endless stick now vent their anger at Ross instead. I agree with what you say though, Osman contributed more to Everton than Ross does.

At the risk of getting stick, I'd cash in on Barkley whilst his value is still high. I'm convinced that he won't ever be the player we want him to be. He consistently makes the wrong choices and has no footballing brain: holding the ball when he should release it, shooting at tight angles when there's better placed teammates, going to ground to try and get a free kick, blazing it over the bar when he could just find a corner.

It's always some other reason why he's not performing: Moyes, Martinez, the system. As much as I hate him, if you look at Gerard for the RS at the same age, he was controlling games, creating goals, making chances and driving the team forward.

Ross is anonymous too often. Maybe there's too much expected of him.

It's frustrating that he can't be at his best against Liverpool, and that maybe a mental problem, or trying to hard. In this respect, all we can do is hope he has more impact in these games in line with the expectation of overall continued improvement in his game.

I don't think he has what it takes; however, no doubt someone would pay stupid money for him... but, if he was at another club, would he be on our shopping list? While he's here, support him... but he's not the player we want him to be nor will he be (in my opinion, that is).

I wondered why Koeman didn't bring on Valencia for Mirallas, as my thoughts were that he'd make sure the breakaways we were looking for, were effective. Though Calvert-Lewin showed he knew where the goal was when he scored at Goodison.

Who knows though what reasons Koeman substituted with the players he did. All I'd say about it, is I don't think he just chucked them on, he made those changes as he believed they were the best options on the night.

What really took my notice was the weaknesses, rather than the strengths, of Lukaku and Barkley.

My view at the beginning of this season was Koeman would give Ross every chance to develop the aspects of his game that others have already commented on, which would make him a much more effective player (ie, develops the speed of thought and the vision doesn't show anything like regularly enough) than he is now. Up to now, my view is that Ronald will opt for a more effective all round player if he can get hold of one. I don't think Ross is going to accumulate those aspects but I hope I'm wrong.

With Lukaku, it's different because he's a very effective goalscorer... in certain situations. The usual route to his goal is to be able to run at a back line at using his strength and speed running on to a through ball. His situation's completely different than Ross's though, as he's proved he can regularly score goals and is good for 20 or so a season.

Neither have signed a new contract, so who knows what'll happen but Romelu looks to have more options available if he wants to leave. As a 20-goal-a-season man, fine but on Tuesday we could have had a certain 2nd goal, maybe a third, if he'd have passed to another player but he chose to shoot from a narrow angle instead.

I remember Rush scoring bucketloads for that lot and Suarez nearly won them the league single-handely but both of those players were showed other extremely effective aspects of their game, like first line of defence and laying on chances fore others. Neither Ross or Romelu do enough of that in my view.

I'm not aiming to pick on players who play for us, especially when we are needing to use younger players; I'm trying to analyse why lose or draw when we could win. These two lads are good against the teams below us, where maybe we get a bit more time and space, but their limitations show against the teams in the top six.

Koeman reckoned it would take two full seasons of transfer windows to get somewhere near challenging for the top 4 positions but, I think the way the league stands at the moment, it's going to be hard top break into the top six.

Didn't Osman suffer a serious knee injury that kept him out for over a year when he was young. Hence the loans to Derby and Carlisle? Maybe that's why he didn't break through until he was 23-24.

But, despite the differing opinions on Barkley, Koeman has rightly said that, if he doesn't sign a new contract, he will be sold.

One of the two is cut endless slack as he struggles season after season to become effective in his role as goal-scoring creator whilst the other learns how to insult those doing the hard graft, putting their bodies literally on the line from start to finish, by visibly shushing the most lion-hearted of the three.

Hats off to Ashley Williams who knew bollocking Lukaku during the match was unusual but it must have been obvious to anyone with eyes that those men in defence were increasingly in despair of keeping three points.

Bollockings in the dressing room after losing points would have missed the point on Tuesday. Had Lukaku made the slightest effort to take a lead in retaining the ball and harassing their defenders when they won it off us we just might have got what we were after. I'd just love to have seen Alan Ball or Reidy deal with such a prima donna.

Were we really expecting Barkley to be some huge megastar? If he was destined for that level, realistically he'd be playing for Real Madrid or Barcelona by now.

He's a good player, not exceptional, nor a superstar, just good. He can produce moments of brilliance, but equally, moments of annoyance.

Why 'cash-in' on him? We lament not having a big enough squad to challenge for the top four, yet some advocate selling our good players. We need to buy players to compete for his and Lukaku's spot (if they stay). Show them both that they are no longer guaranteed starters.

No wonder Mirallas got stroppy when he got substituted. Ross needs forward movement – not a statue.

The Manager has said that if Ross doesn't sign, he will be sold... so be it. That will apply to quite a few of our players, we should always be looking for the best, it's just that for donkeys years we haven't been able to buy them.

Personally, I hope he stays and that he can develop but there are a number of players that we have who won't take us where we want to get and I think Ross, at this stage, is one of them, and I've got my doubts about Lukaku as well.

If Mr Koeman finds a player that will do the job that we hope Ross might do, I hope he gets him. I also hope that Ross does develop but if we want to go higher, then we need the complete player now.

Jags is right, that was 2 points lost although I thought the defence played really well. Ashley Williams's handball just instinctive I thought as he sought to block the ball, it was that kind of defensive effort. Pity we didn't have that last Saturday.

As for the criticism of Ross, some is valid some not. Is he a terrible player? Of course not. Is he top drawer? No not yet. He's somewhere in between imo.

He's better than a lot of mid table midfielders, the stats say he creates lots of chances, but I'm not a big fan of stats, they don't paint the whole picture.

As others have stated, the difference between say Ross and Coutinho is stark. Ross has yet to consistently transfer good form on the big stage. That doesn't mean to say he won't but he isn't showing any inclination to boss and influence games against the better teams.

Sure he has his moments, like the goal against Man City in the cup last year, but that was fleeting. Same with Lukaku really. He has had isolated moments but really he nor Ross influence games against the better teams. They go missing and or get let down by teammates. However, they are the so called talent and you look to those players to do something inspirational, a bit like Coutinho last Saturday.

Whether either will ever be those sorts of players is debatable. I'm just not sure they will. Can shine against mediocre but goes missing against the best. Not a great endorsement of their skills.

We bottled it yet again in a big game. Not a huge surprise. On to the next game with pressure reduced, should be better.

The pressure is back on him at the moment – he's not handling it well.

I like him a lot; he's well worth it – he's a blue at heart – unlike mercenary Rom!

Who would want him playing for them now? Outside of Britain, I cannot think of anybody spending the sort of cash we would ask!!!

COYB

We also saw how we can go to Old Trafford and not be overawed although we did ride our luck a bit with them hitting the woodwork so much.

Probably most importantly, we learnt that Rom does look like a man on his way out. You wonder how his teammate see him, even Mirallas who sets Rom up for so many goals but Rom will rarely play him through.

His attitude to a senior player was a disgrace and shows up Jags and even Koeman for not having the balls to give out to him. Then his wee chat with his flash pal Pogba at the end looked even worse and I couldn't help but think is this them both saying this is the crap I've to play with so I'm outta here.

I've always liked having Rom and contented myself that his goals are worth all the other shit that comes with having him but I think he's showing the signs of a player who wants away. I hope he does finish as top scorer and that Chelsea or a big foreign team offer us 𧴜M for him. I think he's worth a lot more than 㿨M when you consider what we got for Stones. Goals win matches.

On another note, I was delighted to hear this morning that the RS only drew at home again as l thought they'd won around 9:45 last night. It would be great if they came 5th or 6th and with Mané out for maybe the rest of the season (well done, Bainesy) they tend to not win without him.

Home to Leicester on Sunday should be a home win though; they are sitting joint top of the form table with 15 out of 18 points. They've had 4 home wins and one away win to West Ham.

I presume Williams will be suspended so you'd imagine Pennington will get another run out. At least West Brom lost this week so I don't think we'll lose 7th at the worst.

Most of our defensive midfielders seem to have stopped going forward and, starting with McCarthy, it seems to have become infectious. I mean, how often do we see one getting into the opposition's penalty box from open play on a regular basis?

I tell you this, yes he is the top goal scorer at the moment in the league but he will not end up that way when the season finishes. I would rather have Harry Kane,as I think he is an all round striker. He scores goals with both feet with his head, from inside or outside the box and works harder.

Lukaku will play great at home as he doesn't want to get on the wrong side of the crowd but in the big games away from home he can easily hide.

I have run football teams of all ages in my time. I would always encourage my strikers to be selfish but matches need to be won first. Lukaku had a great opportunity to pass the ball when we were one up and Mirallas could have made the match safe but chose to be selfish. I am wondering how many goals he would have scored had others been selfish and not pass the ball to him.

I am not suggesting that Lukaku should be sold but he must remember he is part of a club and he is not Everton Football Club. I believe that Lukaku will be sold as Farhad is a businessman, just as he bought the Royal Liver Building to make money, he will sale Lukaku.

For all his faults, Lukaku scores goals and where would we find someone with his record? Barkley has a touch few can match and used properly he will be a star.

Koeman needs to play a system which embraces the talent he has available to him.

I think the main problem is his mentality. He is having to be coached in the basics of the game and it is causing him confusion and a loss of confidence. I also think he is trying too hard and just needs to relax a bit.

However on a football intelligence level he will never reach the heights his undoubted skills suggest. He is definitely top 10 but not top 4.

As for Lukaku, he has occupied more media space than he deserves. He will always get goals but will always be a liability in other respects, such as losing the ball, or not bringing other players into the game and linking up play.

It is noticeable that when he decides to play we look top 4 but, when he decides to take his bat and ball home, we play with 10 men and this happens in the same game.

I for one will be glad to see the back of him and get someone in like Vardy who works for the team as well as himself.

Would drive me insane to coach him.

And as he is a Blue and prob reads this (I would)... Stay working lad. Develop your mind. Never listen to the media. And listen to Koeman. He was the best.

At Old Trafford he was working hard covering a lot of ground in the first half. His goals have dried up because the opposition often only have Lukaku and him to worry about. Mirallas has rarely been on the pitch long enough with him for some of the attention to be diverted. Lukaku is not laying off quality balls for Mirallas or Barkley to get hold of.

Ibrahimovic, on the other hand , brings people into play, with an array of passes and headers.

When Schneiderlin is back, we will see an improvement in our ball retention.

We are stretched to the limit at the moment and Williams' suspension will increase the pressure on the squad.

Surely goals scored are a useful statistic. Think I would give them a quick glance before signing a striker.

You guys realize that Leicester's success has been shown to have been heavily, and I mean extremely heavily, down to Kante being the midfield general, right? It wasn't Vardy holding up the ball and controlling the game. In fact, their method of play was mostly to spring the counter attack, knocking the ball over the defense for Vardy to run onto. When that wasn't the plan, it was Mahrez and Okazaki bringing the ball forward on the counter. But the one constant was always Kante being their to clean up the mess when Leicester lost the ball, which again, they often did not have.

Just look up the stats for both players.
http://www.squawka.com/players/jamie-vardy/stats#performance-score#leicester-city-(current)#football-league-championship#10#season-2016/2017#641#all-matches#1-30#by-match
http://www.squawka.com/players/romelu-lukaku/stats#performance-score#everton-(current)#english-barclays-premier-league#8#season-2016/2017#641#all-matches#1-31#by-match

Goals scored: Lukaku 21 to Vardy's 10
Pass Accuracy: Lukaku 65% to Vardy's 64%
Chances Created: Lukaku 39 to Vardy's 24
Avg duels won: Lukaku 46% to Vardy's 42%
Shot Accuracy: Lukaku 64% to Vardy's 52%

On average, Lukaku completes 16.5 passes per game compared to Vardy's 9.89 a game.
Aerial duels, chances created, goals scored, clearances, Lukaku leads Vardy. The only category Vardy leads in is a slight lead in tackles, with Vardy getting 0.33 successful tackles a game compared to Lukaku getting 0.13 a game.

Vardy is not some hold up the ball, bring others into play, center forward. He chases long balls and was the recipient of many brilliant balls from an in form Mahrez last season. This season, when Kante left, he struggled just like the rest of the team, which got their manager sacked. They've won a few games recently with the new manager, well so have we. Don't be a prisoner of the moment. Look at the impact Kante had when there, and the impact he's had by leaving, and how that has been taken to the eventual champions Chelsea.

Too many people on here expect 10 out of 10 every week. Coutinhou played well against us but has been crap for theme for a month before that.

How hard they work at Closing down, or chasing and harrying defenders or maybe turning a poor pass into a good one?

I like Lukaku's goals, but although he has definitely improved as a player this season, I'm still not that fussy on the rest of his game.

"It didn't really matter who was right, and who was wrong, but I actually saw Lukaku's reaction as a positive. He cares, and wants to do well for the team.That sort of passion is part of the game and it would be more of a worry for Everton - or any prospective buyers - if he didn't show any.'

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39521532

He also extrapolates on where Lukaku, the great shhoo-in for many a team, might fit. I disagree entirely, and it's hard to know whether all ex-reds are gobshites and out to undermine us.

He must have been really fed up when Calvert-Lewin was picked ahead of him at Anfield. He must have had his confidence really dented over the last 2 to 3 years but he still gives it a good effort when he does play. He also carries a serious goal threat which not all our players do.

I know he has his critics but I think he is a quality player and I feel he has been shabbily treated and why is it he has to be substituted every game on the hour? How come every Everton fan just knew it was the wrong decision to substitute him on Tuesday but not our manager. Real shades of Martinez there.

Also a good word for Ashley Williams. He has some limitations but first and foremost he is a defender and a solid no nonsense one at that. How much more secure are we this season with Williams at the back than we were last season? Considerably so I think.

I also liked him having a go at Lukaku. He gave it everything on Tuesday and expected the same from everyone, particularly those who think they are now too big for the club.

It was unfortunate how the game finished for him with the handball but I think he will be a good positive influence on the young defenders in the squad and we could get another 2 good seasons out of him.

Players have to fit into a team or if they are good enough, have a team built around them.

I for one would say that's too much of a risk when a player cannot commit to a club he becomes a luxury we cannot afford. The team suffers because of the individual... he is no longer a team player. He should be sold irrespective of performance.

Barkley is a much different matter. Since his public rebukes by Koeman he has improved all of his game. The problem he has now is who he is playing with and what he is being asked to do. Against Man Utd he was playing wide, seriously bad call, he has neither the speed to get past players nor is the position the best place to get the best out of him. Bad call by Koeman asking him to do a job he is not equipped for and sacrificing his best position. No wonder he did not shine.

Secondly, he was caught with the ball on several occasions, but several times he had no options to release.. no one (Lukaku) making a run, no one following up (Gana, Davis and Barry all defending). He got crowded out waiting.

Lukaku in the same position didn't look up to release when Barkley had made runs, in space... did not bother to try to get back. His mentality was appallingly selfish, his attitude towards others lacking.

If you want the best from Barkley you need to play him central behind the front players who are sharp and mobile, not a piece of wood.

One of the reasons is the England supporters are not (all) Everton supporters and are less patient with him.

Reading some posts is like a mother defending her wayward son: blind loyalty, because he is a local lad.

The upshot is, he is simply average and Osman nailed it.

you're being a bit selective there seeing as Leicester have had a disastrous season until recently.

Last season Vardy scored 24 in 36 and what goals some of them were.

Lukaku scored 18 in 37 appearances.

I know you like Lukaku but I know which player I would rather have and I don't think he would cost £60m.

Ossie just wasn't good enough except in the eyes of a proven failure of a manager – Moyes.

I can think of at least two or three games in his career when he may have gotten MotM. award and they were not matches against of the good teams.

Yes, Jags. Everton do have a problem protecting the ball and they probably cough up the ball far more often than most teams. Koeman has to resolve this before next season.

Okay, Ross sometimes shows sublime touch, control and passing ability, but he shows it way too infrequently to compensate for the absence of the rest of his game, unlike Ozzie, and Ozzie wasn't great either by the way.

To get into CL qualification we need better than Ozzie or what Ross Barkley has ever shown in what is now several seasons. And as for his "local-ness", and his horrendous injury as a teenager, and his alleged shyness, so what in the exacting world of professional football?

All that matters is what he does on the pitch and the reality is that it's generally unremarkable.

Even the club acknowledge that he apparently never kicked a ball until he was 10 years old, so if that's true it seems weird to me that he's now deemed a born-blue. It's also reported that when he did kick a ball he was amazingly streets ahead of his contemporaries, cue the story of him nonchalantly scoring penalties with either foot as a kid.

And okay, it's only been on social media but a former player allegedly said right from the outset of Ross's pro career that he "wasn't a footballer". Sadly Ross has constantly shown this to be the truth.

Footballers need a full deck. Even Messi, Neymar, Iniesta, Xavi and Suarez genuinely chase down defenders when Barca lose the ball, unlike our boy.

Everton need professional staff doing everything professionally with consistently effective skill. Think Gana or Schneiderlin for instance, and I trust even they're being pressured to do more offensively.

If you can't deliver in every way I think Koeman will rightly deem you're a gonner, obviously for maximum bucks though, hence his many comments extolling how fantastic Lukaku is and his continued selection of Ross.

We'll see this summer, won't we, Mr Moshiri?

A former player allegedly said he wasn't a footballer, well how wrong was he ?Because as far as I'm aware he plays professionally for Everton every week. Just a nonsense statement whether you said it or somebody else did.

So you need to chase down players to be great footballer? Pele didn't chase down to many.

What do you mean when you say footballers need a full deck?

Sorry pal but I don't see consistent effect skill in Gana or Schneiderlin, whatever that means.

Personally I think too many people have heaped unnecessary pressure on Ross and it's just not right. He had some amazing games for us in Roberto's first season and automatically he was the next Ballack or Glen Hoddle. It's all just ridiculous. He might not be the superstar that we all hoped for, but I still think he is one very talented footballer.

People need to get off his back and stop criticising him every time he has an off game. Maybe then he will play with freedom.

Cue 2016-17 and that same 'new manager syndrome'. Equally clueless but getting results because the players have had a boost and the boss doesn't feel under any pressure.

We saw signs of Roberto's limitations in that first season but chose to ignore them as we were thinking positive (Liverpool 4-0).

We've seen the same mistakes being made by Koeman (Chelsea 5-0) but a lot on here are saying how he had improved Ross etc. Well Ross was even better in 2013-14, and as for defensive signings, Williams is to Koeman what Alcaraz was to Martinez; when we needed a younger, more mobile centre-half who could compete in the air and on the floor.

For attacking midfielders, there's Barry, McCarthy and Besic for Martinez and Gana and Schneiderlin for Koeman. Not what we needed.

As for Strikers, at least the Catalan Clown got us Lukaku. We've had 4 years of opportunities to get the right players in and we are still relying on Jagielka, Baines, Coleman and Mirallas as the main strength of the side; all of these were Moyes signings and, Lukaku apart, this season has revealed how we still haven't brought in any 'Top 4' players in years. Typical Everton

The last time we won a trophy with a manger who wasn't our "own" was the 1969-70 season with Harry Catterick.

Ross is a mystery because for all his occasional flashes of brilliance he consistently struggles to impose himself in any way that makes opponents fear him. Champions League players in his position possess much more. He's containable and doesn't need special attention, albeit he occasionally has a good game against an also-ran, like Ozzie used to.

It'd be great if it wasn't so, and as for heaping too much pressure on him. well, how many years are we going to go on hearing that? Professional football is all about pressure and how well you deal with it but if Ross has a problem it's sadly his and his alone.

And Gordon, I know Pele didn't do much tackling back but when I last saw him he was surrounded by Jairzinho, Gerson, Tostao, Everaldo, Clodoaldo, and Rivelino. With that sort of talent nobody needed to worry too much about conceding any goals because for some reason their opponents thought it wise not to venture too far over the halfway line!

In life when your confidence is high, you don't dread trying new things. But when your low in confidence you hesitate to even do the simple things.

Yes he needs to cope with pressure of being a professional footballer, that's true. But he doesn't need or didn't need the extra pressure that compares him to Glen Hoddle, Gazza, Lampard or even Ballack.

Some kids can handle that pressure like Rooney but Ross isn't one of them. But that doesn't mean we don't have a diamond in Ross Barkley; we do.

Yes, at times I've said things too about him and even heaped extra pressure on him too, but I've had a change of heart and realised that's not going to help him.

The fans and media have put too much pressure on Ross and he is struggling with it. People need to get behind him and let him feel the love.

And he has been great recently.

It's notable how many threads not specifically to do with Barkley or Lukaku end up discussing Barkley and Lukaku. Perhaps that tells us how good they are on their day, despite their various detractors on TW.

In Ross's case, I want him to stay at Everton purely because he's a cracking player. He's had some excellent games this year, and been MotM in quite a few. I'm not really interested in whether he's from Liverpool or an Evertonian, or any of that stuff. I'm interested only in how good he can be for Everton.

Sometimes I've been critical of Ross and even recently I said "We should give him until the summer and see how he performs." But I was wrong. We need to sign him up long-term. #KeepRoss :)

"Cue 2016-17 and that same 'new manager syndrome'."

Not sure, then, why the 'new manager syndrome' didn't kick in for Ross until after Xmas, when he seems to have been in better form, generally speaking.

You might need a fact-check there... How does the song go again, Max (#69)? "And if ya know yer 'istry..."??? I heard he was a miserable bugger but he doesn't deserve such post-fact revisionism!

Makes perfect sense if we are happy to accept 7th or 8th every season.

Barkley will not move us onto the next level, he's a comfortable top 8 player nothing more. If we do eventually manage to sign a creative inventive intelligent central midfielder, it will not be to partner Barkley but to replace him, that is fact!

Koeman will not play two attacking midfielders and we need one we can rely on, an upgrade from us finishing 7th to seriously challenging 4th.

Lukaku won't be here, we already know that every season since he signed permanent he just loses interest once April arrives, daydreaming of his big move to a Champions League club.

Again, as with Barkley, we need to make sure with the millions of pound this club is now awash with and after the sale of Lukaku that we sign another 20- to 25-goal-a-season player.

Speculate to accumulate.

Like it or not, we're not one of the top clubs in World football, and therefore we don't have top players at our club, so players like Ross will always struggle to get to the very higher echelons of form on an ongoing basis.

Same can be said of Lukaku – I expect this post will upset a few people, but it's true.

Very good opinion on Ross.

Of all our injuries (and naturally I wish them all a speedy recovery) this was the one that made me think this is REALLY going to damage us.

Admittedly we haven't seen that much of him, but certainly what I've seen is enough for me to think we really have a terrific player.

Guile, passes, defensive awareness and effort - a rare combination (specially for us).

By the way, heard Mane is out for the rest of the season.

I wish injury on no player (sendings off sure, wives leaving them, fine) but I do hope those dancing about gleefully singing about Seamus are fucking gutted and his loss sees them finish outside the Champions League spots.

I too had my head in my hands when he got injured.

Paul – you're right. Football goes in cycles, and hopefully our time will come again. At this point in time (and for a bloody long time) Everton are not one of the big boys.

172 appearances, 26 goals is not a "diamond" or a "cracking" player. He's pretty good. That's all.

I cringe every time I hear him on telly or on the radio. I get the impression that he pretends to respect us just so he doesn't get pulled-up by an Evertonian, when he is out of his usual comfort zone of safe middle-class environments, where ordinary folk rarely appear unless slightly shell-shocked and very unlikely to want to draw attention to themselves!

He has an agenda against Everton. I know this because I have heard him numerous times on TalkShite, 5Live and the TV.

He pretends to like us in his attempt to appear gracious, but it is plainly obvious that he really hates our very bones. The man is a cunt.