Please just go now, Sam Allardyce

Michael Denson 20/04/2018 43comments  |  Jump to last
Yesterday, I read about Allardyce's press conference where he told everyone he wouldn’t talk about the survey before being asked how he would rate himself, out of 10, and answering 11. I cringed. And moved on...

Then I got home and actually saw the press conference...

So, after going on a diatribe slagging Kenyon (I'm loving the widespread defence of him on internet today and looking forward to the banners supporting him over Allardyce on Monday night) he actually said the words "And don’t be asking me what I'd give myself out of 10 either"... (please please ask me) then he is naturally asked said question by Vinny O'Connor before he gives his "comedic" answer.

Now I consider myself a fair man; as much as I can't stand the plank, I can try to see things from anyone's point of view, so I tried to put myself in his shoes and work out what he wants, what he is trying to do... and I came to the following conclusion:

He has been in the game long enough. He is not without knowledge (certainly in manipulating particular members of the press and his cronies in the game (Richard Keys, Paul Merson et al... those renowned deeply intelligent masters of the modern game), but I digress. So I can give him some credit for some things he has done in his time at the club (despite initial misgivings, you can certainly see Tosun is a natural striker, so give him credit for whatever role he had in that; getting rid of Mirallas; getting the team to graft a lot harder than they had been initially). There ends the positives!

Now what we all know is he is 'famous' for is coming in, sorting the defence, getting the team back to basics, blah, blah, blah. As far as I can see, this has mainly consisted of saying we need to keep clean sheets. Hurrah! And also sacrificing a lot of attacking play (get rid early).

I have seen no sign whatsoever of any particular coaching work on the back 4. The experienced defenders getting fit for last few games; this has seen much more of an improvement in general levels of defending than anything he has done in 6 months. Indeed this is the crux of the matter. What has happened has by-and-large happened around him, like a big gormless bystander. But is what anyone with a brain could have foreseen at the time of his appointment.

Yes, we were bad; yes, we were a mess; yes, the fans were petrified... but anyone rational knew results and performances would inevitably pick up. Unless you are Derby (Robbie Savage era) bad, any team will have a good run in a season. Would any of the bottom 10 teams swap their squad for ours, as woefully badly constructed as it was by Koeman and Walsh? I'd be amazed if any wouldn’t. Indeed, Sam Allardyce knew that better than anyone which is why he launched his PR campaign to get the job (money for old rope). But all he has offered since is words and very very little action.

As we all know, it's all about him, him, him. Whilst he has made some token efforts to appease the fans (I remember he talked about not letting Andy Gray, Bracewell etc down) his main overriding concern has always been (and will always be) his reputation.

Not news that he takes credit for all wins and blames others for defeats, we all know that, but think of some of the things he has said. He talked about getting safe then progressing from there and trying new things (sticking extra defender on for a 'great point' at Swansea, calling our Davy an anomaly who he can't risk.... apart from that, his only change since we have got safe seems to have been increasing the rhetoric about what a mess we were in when he took over, in an attempt to divert all attention away from why there is no sign of any change whatsoever in the way we are set up).

I have come to the conclusion that all the buffoonery is because he knows he can't actually do the job he has spent years telling everyone he has been unfairly denied the chance to. He cannot build a team in the modern era – and deep down he knows that. Does he want to be at Everton next season? Does he hell. But he will fight tooth and nail for his pay-off and to preserve his reputation.

So, when he leaves (let's not play any make-believe games about him staying), what will he do in the summer? Let's live in a hypothetical world where he is as great as he says he is and everyone else finally realises the fact. So Arsenal ask him to join... Chelsea sack Conte and go cap in hand to Sam... Spurs make overtures to him saying they will sack Pochettino if wor Sam will do them the honour of being their manager.

Which one does our Sam pick? Answer – not a chance in hell he would take any of those jobs nor indeed any job in summer. Not that he would ever come out and say so but that involves being a proper manager and that’s too hard for him. Instead, he will sit there in another well-earned early retirement, counting his millions till the going gets tough for a load of clubs before Christmas and his ego rears his ugly head as the saviour again where he will pick the club that is underachieving the most, or has the most cash for him to spend in January, and launch another PR campaign to get another easy job that he will talk up as the hardest thing ever... and the cycle will repeat itself (including the bonus for staying up and the huge pay-off when he leaves). He is a master in identifying a club at its most desperate, where a pick-up is almost inevitable because of the rot around the rest of the bottom of the Premier League. Though god forbid he ever did take a club down, we all know he would absolve himself of all blame in the most comical/ruthless of ways.

So to take it back to his ego, looking back at his stay with us, I've been thinking about some of the things that have sickened me the most. His attempts to take credit for Unsworth's 4-0 win against West Ham probably being Number 1. "I went in and told the lads a few things, such as the importance of clean sheets..." Er, thanks for that... so grateful he did though cos, without those words of wisdom, Pickford would probably have gone for a picnic when West Ham lined their penalty up.

And let's go back even further to the start of his regime, eh? Look back at the pictures of the clown arriving at the ground for the match that night, with Moshiri walking ahead of him like some sort of glorified bag carrier as the buffoon chats away on his phone. Put the phone down and show some respect to your new employer, you clown! Oh no, you can't, cos then it wouldn’t all be about you.

Congrats, Sam – you have killed our enjoyment of Football. You have killed our hope, our ambition, our pride. The restoration of these can not begin until you have gone; yet, with nothing left to play, for he is still here somehow, spouting the same crap, sending the same crap on to the pitch. Another day, another dollar.

Nothing can be salvaged from this season. But Mr Moshiri, and I know you are reading, please think about the difference for the last few games between an Unsworth-led, hell, even a Rooney-led (why not?) Everton team freed from the shackles of Sam-dom and the fans responding accordingly or some more Allardyce-led games of doom dreaded by the fans and accompanied by indifference and derision.

I am done now; I feel cleansed. Until his post-match press conference Monday...

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Reader Comments (43)

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Jack Convery
1 Posted 20/04/2018 at 22:17:52
Well said – he should go now. That would be best for all concerned.
Andy Crooks
2 Posted 20/04/2018 at 22:36:53
Michael, he will be here next season. Unthinkable as it is, I just have an awful feeling about it. I think the survey and the fallout from it has saved him and his band of mercenaries.

James Flynn
3 Posted 20/04/2018 at 23:30:47
"I am done now; I feel cleansed. Until his post-match press conference Monday..."

Fair play. Well-written.

But, you're not posting another of these screeds Tuesday, are you?

Simon Dalzell
5 Posted 21/04/2018 at 01:33:56
As good an article as I've read on TW. Not much more to say than you've absolutely nailed it. A very articulate account of what 99.99999999% of us feel. The ignorant oaf disgusts me.
Gary Borrows
6 Posted 21/04/2018 at 08:16:49
You nailed it. I've been a season-ticket holder for years and have not booed since the Martinez era. With this clown in charge (FS et al) I've stopped going.

I missed the derby – got my car serviced instead. Quite frankly, I cannot be bothered – is apathy catching cos that what my friends and I have got. Still, we've paid for next season's season ticket only with the hope that the current management & senior hierarchy are replaced .

My choice (which will never happen): Wenger as DOF (he's a true football guru), with head coach Arteta. Get rid of the dinosaurs, Ferguson included.

Rob Halligan
7 Posted 21/04/2018 at 11:45:22
Have we all seen those kids who hold up a piece of paper with the words "Please (insert players name), can I have your shirt". Well, we need someone to write "Please, Sam Allardyce why don't you just Fuck Off?" Monday night will be ideal seeing as the whole world will see it.

No good me doing it as it won't be seen from my seat in the Upper Gwladys. A 10-year-old kid in the family enclosure should be ideal.

Tony Everan
8 Posted 21/04/2018 at 12:44:30
93% don't want him.

The club is desperate for a new start after the worst season many of us can remember.

It is impossible for Mr Moshiri to keep him on when there is a glaring opportunity right now to get a new manager and regime in we can unite behind.

I am at the stage where a win for us doesn't feel like a win for us. It feels like a win for Sam.

Alan Smith
9 Posted 21/04/2018 at 13:25:51
Oh my god – what melodramatic nonsense! The vitriol against him is extreme hysterical nonsense.

"He was on the phone whilst walking behind his boss"???? — Are you serious?

As for the presser, he's now not allowed to make a joke about thousands of people continually hounding him? This is the stupidest article ever written by some distance.

93%? Well done to the 93% — you've all whipped yourself up into a frenzy of hysterical nonsense. Some posters don't want to win because they feel a "win for Everton is win for Allardyce"???

Style of play? Style of play cry-babies... What did our best manager since Kendall 1 do? Royle? You lot must want to give Man Utd the '95 FA Cup win. I don't.

Michael Lynch
10 Posted 21/04/2018 at 14:07:09
I didn't want him, but he arrived and I gave him a chance. Unfortunately, the vast majority of fans didn't even give him that, hence, as Alan Smith puts it, the "melodramatic nonsense" posted on here day after day since Allardyce's appointment.

I'm hoping we'll appoint a new manager asap, not least to stop the fucking moaning on here. Christ help the poor idiot, though, if he's not Pep, Pochettino and Klopp rolled into one and covered in fairy dust.

Andy Walker
11 Posted 21/04/2018 at 15:01:10
I agree with Michael and Alan. It's people with short memories who don't remember the place we were at having been hammered by about to be relegated Southampton in November. If people read the match reaction to this game on this site, they will find dozens of fans rightly concerned we may get relegated. We were about a third of the way through the season.

Many fans are now trying to change the narrative to ‘we weren't in the bottom 3 and would never have got relegated' so there was no need to appoint Allardyce. I think that's total nonsense and doesn't acknowledge the reality of what Allardyce has achieved.

It should be no surprise to anyone the price that has to be paid for securing another year in the Premier League, namely dull pragmatic football, Allardyce's proven survival method. It was never going to be any different, but from the reaction of some including the writer of this article, it seems to have come as a total shock. Hence we get all this emotive, unbalanced nonsense.

I want a new manager appointment in the summer to take us forward, but thank Allardyce for helping to give us that chance of another season in the top division, because back in November having been thrashed by Southampton that was the best we could hope for.

As for Southampton, who were comfortably mid-table after thrashing us, they are almost nailed on to go down now and yet we are supposed to buy the argument we weren't at risk of going down? Rubbish.

As I say, I think we need a new manager, but critically we need a dozen new players of elite standard. Currently, only Pickford would get a game in a top 6 side, then maybe Walcott and Coleman would be in a top 6 squad. We lack top quality throughout. Most of the players have been poor most of the season, past their best or just not good enough; this needs addressing by a new manager in the summer.

Jay Wood

12 Posted 21/04/2018 at 15:06:43
Anybody who signs off any post, regardless of the merits or otherwise of its contents "You must want to give Man Utd the '95 cup win? I don't" really, really cannot be taken seriously in any way, on any level.
Steve Guy
13 Posted 21/04/2018 at 15:17:17
I have no problem with Allardyce coming in when he did. The underlying quality of most of our players plus the dead cat bounce of a new manager with experience in helping teams floundering, gave us enough impetus to pull free.

Having said that, he's added nothing to the Club on or off the pitch, but I never expected him to. When we got to 40 points, I saw no point in his staying and we can only hope (and expect) Moshiri to get rid after the last ball is kicked and start again with (hopefully) lessons learned.

Mike Gaynes
14 Posted 21/04/2018 at 15:17:39
Well put, Jay, and nicely restrained.

The laws of evolution tell us that some are always going to be a little less evolved than the rest of us.

Gerard McKean
15 Posted 21/04/2018 at 15:33:44
I agree, Jay (#12), there's no place for that on TW. And the two posters who followed him – make yourselves known to the senior management at the club. They'll give you a job as they are also ignoring the club's history and the way it is now being tarnished by this carpetbagger.
Andy Walker
16 Posted 21/04/2018 at 15:51:27
And there's Gerard stirring the pot.

As I have stated, I don't want Allardyce to manage us next season. But that's not enough for some, you apparently have to spew emotive vitriol towards our manager, the more extreme and ludicrous (reference the phone comment in the article) the better.

Mind you, this is standard fare, Moyes was abused (Scottish dour, ginger etc) for only getting us to 5th-7th and Koeman was abused almost as badly as Allardyce. Is there a competition on TW to see who can be the most abusive towards our managers? Sorry, I'm not playing that game.

He's a limited manager who's done what was asked of him; now he can move on.

James Hughes
17 Posted 21/04/2018 at 16:03:56
Alan 'Fish' Smith — I see you are at it again. Chiding people yesterday for lack of logic and facts when you can't display either; then that beaut of post today.

The vitriol against him is extreme hysterical nonsense. — You know, I wondered why Superdrug was short of smelling salts. It was us fans having the vapours!! I never realised I was hysterical so thanks for the diagnosis. The wife feels reassured as well.

This is the stupidest article ever written by some distance. — I have to disagree, you keep winning that hands down.

Keep talking bollocks though — it's amusing Fish!

Michael Lynch
18 Posted 21/04/2018 at 16:45:43
Andy Walker – agree 100%. It's sad when it becomes a pissing contest about who can come up with more ridiculous vitriol about a manager.

None of us wanted him, none of us want him now, but he's done what was asked of him. It wasn't pretty, but the blame should be laid proportionately at the doors of all three managers, the DoF and the under-performing players.

John G Davies
19 Posted 21/04/2018 at 17:04:24
Michael (#18),

Do you mean Sam Lardiola, hippo headed, fat fraud, dinosaur, chewy chewin twat, Allardyce? 😁

I agree with your post 100%.

Eugene Kearney
20 Posted 21/04/2018 at 17:19:01
Brilliant idea, Gary Burrows at #6

Wenger as DoF and Arteta as head coach/manager.

We need fresh thinking, energetic and forward-looking approach to developing an attacking and winning style of play (that would be Arteta), steered, guided and fed by the wise, shrewd, discerning Wenger.

Andy Walker
22 Posted 21/04/2018 at 17:34:13
Michael, agree 100% mate. Hopefully a clean out in the summer and we can start to rebuild. Problem is we almost certainly won't be top 6 next season as we're so far off the pace. Will that lead to calls to sack the next manager from certain fans, continuing the cycle?
Tony Marsh
23 Posted 21/04/2018 at 18:02:47
I agree Allardyce, isn't the best manager in the Premier League, but how on Earth any of you can blame Allardyce for this season is beyond belief.

Koeman and Walsh constructed a shambolic squad. Koeman gets sacked Unsworth came in and blew his chance big time with worse performances than we had under Big Ron. The football was shocking under Koeman and Unsworth. Our away form was shocking last season and has-been terrible for decades – not the fault of SA. He wasn't here.

Please don't give me Unsworth would of kept us up garbagge Rhino was like a rabbit caught in the headlights at the end he was drained and clueless.

The enjoyment of football was well gone before Allardyce arrived here mate. We were getting Tonked by everyone by 4 and 5 goals home and away domestically and in Europe. Not Allardyce's fault.

This bunch of no-marks who steal a living on the pitch for EFC were not brought here by Allardyce. No manager in the world could've done any better with the shite Allardyce inherited. This post is ludicrous cry baby stuff. It is totally embarrassing.

Sam Allardyce was given the remit to save us from the drop when we were all shitting our Kecks. He has done that job but now that's not enough. Everton fans should thank Sam Allardyce for saving us from relegation – not hound him like a pack of dogs. Regardlesss of Sam staying or not, he doesn't deserve this bullshit campaign being waged on him by our fans. And to think, our fans say Kopites have no class...

This article made my stomach churn it was so over the top and cringeworthy. It was written basically because the author knew it would be warmly reviewed. Real internet bullying or trolling whatever it's called.

You need to be careful what you wish for, guys. We are in a very perilous position right now. Instability in the summer without a manger could lead to all kinds of problems.

Michael Kenrick
24 Posted 21/04/2018 at 19:38:26
Tony, he's not being blamed for the season — he's being blamed for the dreadful ant-football he has them playing.

As fans, we have to believe that (... okay, I know some of you don't), for the incredible sums paid, and the reputations carried before them, that these players can and should be performing better — under a proper manager.

Everybody and their mother now knows what Allardyce was brought in for — why does this have to be repeated post after post? We all know he was brought in to prevent relegation!!!

And guess what? We all know he succeeded! But you have to do a whole lot more to be Everton manager, and Sam ain't doing it. It's the apologist posts now seeping out from the 7%, emboldened by the media pundits and ex-players who are slamming EFC, that are embarrassing.

And as if to underline this media bollocks, we've just had an Everton fan on 606, telling them like it is regarding Lardiola, with Robbie and Kirsty of course siding with Allardyce – "who kept them in the Premier League and has taken them up to 9th"!!! They had absolutely no idea what points this lad was trying to make.
Andy Walker
25 Posted 21/04/2018 at 21:10:38
Michael, ‘It's the apologist posts now seeping out...'Maybe I've missed something, but I haven't read any posters saying they want Allardyce to stay. Are we now saying that, if you don't write suitably hyperbolic abuse towards Allardyce, you're classed as an apologist, even if you want him sacked in the summer?
Michael Kenrick
26 Posted 21/04/2018 at 21:33:14

Judging by your posts, it seems you don't want to see any criticism of Everton managers — from Moyes to Koeman to Allardyce. I think that's an untenable position, and it is, in fact, more reasonable to expect plenty of criticism on an Everton fans forum when managers start to slip up — or, in Allardyce's case, simply fails, time and again, to perform at the level required of this club.

The rest of us are going to make a call when we think the manager is falling short. We did it for Moyes; we did for it Koeman; and now we are doing it for Allardyce. Yes, some of the posts are infantile at best in their abuse, but I see that as reflecting the huge frustration so many fans feel toward the current situation, and the gut-wrenching possibility that he might actually still be here in August — despite the heartfelt convictions posted by people who simply do not know, but claim that he will be gone by then.

So, yes, it's kind of a classic President Bush type dichotomy: If you're not for us, then you're against us.

Andy Crooks
27 Posted 21/04/2018 at 21:37:15
Tony Marsh, you might well have been "shitting your kecks", but not many others were. You pleaded for your beloved "Fireman Sam", to be brought in – yes, you actually used that fucking toe-curling phrase.

Now that he has confirmed that he is the shitest coach in our history, you are stuck with defending the man you cried for.

Sam "I want a Jag, I deserve a Jag" Allardyce is a money-grabbing parasite. As the poster of some of the most vile filth on this site, Tony, your stomach should be immune from being churned.

Andy Walker
28 Posted 21/04/2018 at 21:47:13
Michael, you missed out Martinez who I was a BIG critic of from day one of his appointment. There were only a few of us who didn't rate Martinez in the beginning so I had to put up with similar stick for being out of line with the general TW narrative. I always refrained from personal abuse though and wish others would too.
Tony Marsh
29 Posted 21/04/2018 at 22:09:55
Andy @27,

Like I have said in the past, given the choice of Moyes or Allardyce, I choose Allardyce every time. I am a realist and when it was apparent none of the delusional choices that you and many others called for were coming here as manager, we were left with a pitiful list to choose from.

Even now, as we come to the end of the season, our fans are playing silly buggers with yet more ridiculous shouts for the next manager. Fonseca ain't coming, lad, neither is Mancini nor Wenger nor any of the other big-name elite coaches. Sack Allardyce... then who next??

In an ideal world, I wouldn't dream of Allardyce as our manager but this is Everton FC – far from ideal. I don't take part in the name game because I understand the level we operate at.

Myself personally I am thankful for him keeping us up. I was genuinely worried about the drop when Unsworth took over from Koeman, just like many many other fans. Maybe we aren't all tough guys like you? Maybe you just don't live in the real world where Everton suck badly and we were in very grave danger before Allardyce took over.

Tony Everan
30 Posted 21/04/2018 at 22:17:44
It's not hyperbole or fanaticism. It is telling it straight as it is. Sam Allardyce is not good enough for Everton, his methods and style of football offer no hope.

He has done the job he was brought in for. Now it is time not for vitriol or spite but to say thank you and goodbye.

I fully agree that the malaise of this season is not down to him.

However, in no way at all can I see Sam as the man to take us forward to build an attacking team with quality supplemented by our talented young players. One that is capable of a top 6 challenge.

Sam will deliver mediocrity and will achieve it with unwatchable football. We have to aspire to more than that.

Kevin Prytherch
32 Posted 21/04/2018 at 22:31:55
Tony - Our away form was shocking - hardly the fault of big Sam. Let's forget they 5 out of 7 of Unsworths first games were away. Sorry - doesn't suit your argument.

Tony - the football was shocking under Unsworth - compare the Chelsea, West Ham, Palace and Watford games to any under Allardyce and you'll see more passion, excitement and commitment. Sorry - those games don't suit your argument.

We're we or we're we not 13th in Allardyces first game in charge, after playing all of the current top 6 in the first few games, therefore to anyone with half a forward thinking brain - not in a relegation scrap. Sorry - agin it doesn't suit your argument.

Are you the same Tony Marsh who criticised Moyes for not aiming high enough, for not beating the top six away from home? Then you defend Allardyce for being a poor mans Moyes.

Either you can't admit you were wrong about Allardyce or you're too stubborn to admit it. Or maybe you're just like Sam and you like to twist everything so the focus is on you and how you're perceived. Thinking about it, maybe you and Sam are made for each other, or you are in fact Sam Allardyce under a persona??

Either way, I had respect for what you said when Moyes was in charge - I don't any more.

Either way, I use

Andy Crooks
33 Posted 21/04/2018 at 23:20:09
Tony, can you name the "delusional choices", I was calling for as manager?

Provide a link to it. Or, in fact, just name one of them.

Tony Marsh
34 Posted 21/04/2018 at 23:59:48
Kevin @ 32

I am not defending anyone. I am not defending Sam Allardyce and I am not slagging him off either. I do not see the point in losing sleep or frothing at the mouth over Allardyce being our manager. It's not a long-term appointment (18-month contract) so I am just seeing how it develops.

How fucking pathetic would EFC look in the football world and how much of a shithouse trick would it be to of sack Sam Allardyce as soon as we we're safe from the drop? This action would definitely deter other possible managers from coming here, would it not? What kind of top coach would come here after such a diabolical trick? How fucking low would some of you people stoop just to feed your egos and prove a point? It's disgusting.

Allardyce will be here until we find someone daft enough to take the Everton job. I am not going to demand like an idiot that Allardyce should walk. Why would he? Would you walk away from the money you had just earned?

It's absolutely farcical asking for a manager to walk away after just 6 months in the job a job he was asked to do and a job he succeeded in doing. Get real. You all know it doesn't work like that in this game. Just because I won't jump on the lynch-mob bandwagon doesn't mean I like our style of football.

For our information, I gave Moyes 3 or 4 years before I turned on him. Moyes lasted another 8 years. Big difference than attacking a manager after only 4 months when it's not even that manager's team. It's too early to press the button on Sam as It would be disastrous PR for the club and Moshiri. I despair at our fans naivety at times, I really do.

Mark Dunford
35 Posted 21/04/2018 at 00:24:56
Unsworth's record in the league was fine 2 wins, 2 losses and a draw. The West Ham win was the best performance in this dire season. He also rightly brought in Kenny at right back, gave Beni his first taste of first-team football and provided the team with more balance. His record is at least comparable to Allardyce's and he deserved a bigger vote of confidence from the board at the outset.

In his one transfer window, Big Sam signed two decent players yet failed to add a left-sided player of note to the squad. The team only really improved when Moyes defence was restored but we still have a mess in midfield and an imbalanced team playing poor football. It is now harder to beat.

Allied to that, we have an unbelievably arrogant man in charge who seems to think he is too good for the club and the supporters. Despite this, we have continued to lose badly under his tenure – Arsenal, Man City, Spurs. How the fallen English are mighty. His departure is now overdue.

Don Alexander
36 Posted 22/04/2018 at 00:33:42
Why people get hung up on Koeman, Unsworth & Allardyce defeats me whilst the real blame obviously lies at the feet of those who appointed them. They're presumably the ones who'll soon appoint the next guy, unless they appoint a DoF or whatever.

You know, a guy who always gets it right with appointing a manager who's successful the moment he takes over a club with a squad bloated with overpaid elderly couldn't-give-a-shits on lengthy contracts, and two or three promising kids who might make it if the right environment can be instantly created, and an owner who appears to know as much about football as he does about living on the national minimum wage.

What could possibly go wrong?

David Barks
37 Posted 22/04/2018 at 00:36:41
Oh Tony Marsh,

Why do you constantly harp on about Moyes? He's not coming back, and thankfully so. Having said that, he's light-years ahead of Allardyce, light-years. He took over a West Ham club in crisis, with supporters storming the pitch and in visible revolt against the ownership, and has them only 7 points below us. And that's with a far less talented squad and far less stable. He has Joe fucking Hart in goal, for Christ's sake!!!

So you go on with your worship of Allardyce and I'll go on calling you out for the pathetic level of expectation and lack of ambition you have for Everton. Allardyce is a con-man, a fraud, who has used this ridiculous survey scandal for personal gain while ignoring the fact that the same thing was done last year for the previous manager.

He shipped a talented youngster out on loan in favor of, to quote one of your favorite words, “dour” defensive anti-football. And he's now criticizing that young player for choosing a tougher challenge in a top four German club instead of playing for a Championship perennial underachiever. He has done worse on points per game ratio than Unsworth. He has done worse against the same 9 clubs Koeman faced to start the season. He has shipped 4-5 goals in games multiple times.

With many of the same players that Koeman had to finish 7th last season (Baines, Coleman, Jagielka, Gana, Schneiderlin, Davies, Williams, Bolasie) and what many would consider upgrades (Pickford, Walcott, Rooney, Sigurdsson), he has us playing horrendous football against the likes of West Brom and Swansea. We had a record worst ball possession against Man City. He went out in a defensive system at home to a Liverpool side who were resting their star attacking threats. How and why you continue to defend the man is beyond me. He's a damn disgrace.

Dennis Stevens
38 Posted 22/04/2018 at 00:44:34
Tbh, if I'd thought for a minute we would have seen Allardyce appointed as Everton manager, I'd rather have stuck with Koeman.

I most definitely would have prefered the Board to have stuck with Unsworth rather than panic and appoint Allardyce. Unsworth had pulled us clear of the relegation zone and I struggle to imagine how we would have fared worse under him than we have since the appointment of Allardyce.

The appointment of Allardyce was the panic-stricken triumph of desperation over hope and potential. It was a shit decision that has delivered precisely that – shit. If we are to make any progress as a club, Moshiri needs to get a fuckin' grip!

Jim Jennings
39 Posted 22/04/2018 at 01:34:54
David Barks

“With many of the same players that Koeman had to finish 7th last season (Baines, Coleman, Jagielka, Gana, Schneiderlin, Davies, Williams, Bolasie) and what many would consider upgrades (Pickford, Walcott, Rooney, Sigurdsson)”

The same Baines who has missed almost the entirety of Allardyce's reign?

The same Coleman who has only recently come back from a potentially career-threatening injury?

The same Bolasie who has only recently come back from a potentially career-threatening injury?

The same Rooney that “many would consider an upgrade” on Lukaku?

The same Sigurdsson that “many would consider an upgrade” on Barkley?

This is exactly the type of thing that the “apologists” are referring to.
(I use quote marks because frankly, it's a dumb reductive phrase used to shout down and denigrate any opposing view on this site.)

There are 101 valid reasons to dislike, criticise and want rid of Allardyce (and boy do I) but let's not make shit up to suit your argument.

David Barks
40 Posted 22/04/2018 at 02:19:31

No, mate, don't put words in my mouth. At no point did I say Rooney was an upgrade on Lukaku or Sigurdsson an upgrade on Barkley. But upgrades over Mirallas and Barry, in the positions they were asked to play (Sigurdsson on the left and Rooney in central midfield), yes.

Baines has been in the team since the start of March. How have you liked those performances against Swansea and Liverpool that I mentioned?

Coleman has been back in the team since January. Also in the team for those Swansea and Liverpool matches. But you know what? He wasn't available for Koeman. Yet Allardyce has had him for months now with performances not improving.

Bolasie has also been back in the team since January. Of course Korman didn't have him the second half of last season or at all this season. And career threatening? No, an ACL injury hasn't been career-threatening for 20+ years.

So go on. Is Tosun an improvement over Niasse? Is Walcott an improvement over Mirallas or anything Koeman has to work with? Allardyce has been able to select Pickford in goal, Baines at left-back, Coleman at right-back, Jagielka at centre-back, Gana, Davies, Schneiderlin in midfield (just like Koeman), with Walcott and Tosun in attack. It's Allardyce's fault he doesn't have Lookman to call on in attack.

And note again – nowhere did I say we upgraded over Lukaku.

Jack Convery
41 Posted 22/04/2018 at 07:23:20
Allardyce's Motto — Divide and Bore.

Seems to me it's coming true...

Simon Dalzell
42 Posted 22/04/2018 at 13:37:35
Alan Smith (#9) – "Total nonsense" is how I would describe YOUR post.
Craig Walker
43 Posted 23/04/2018 at 13:50:43
I didn't want Allardyce at our club. I don't like the guy or his football and I never have done.

It did seem to me though that we were heading for relegation in October. It seems a long time ago now but we had the lucky win in November against Watford under Unsworth on the back of a 3-0 drubbing against Lyon.

We got a lucky 2-2 draw with a poor Crystal Palace team where Niasse got his suspension but then got 5 put past us against Atalanta and 4 past us away at Southampton. Being honest, I would have snatched your hand off for a 9th placed finish at that point.

Allardyce has achieved his goal. He's kept us up for another season. I still don't like him and, as much as I like Unsworth, I'm not convinced he would have kept us up. We'll never know though will we?

I'm also not sure that Silva is the great manager he's made out to be. I haven't checked but he'd won something like 9 or 10 Premier League games at the time we were interested in him. His Hull team were relegated. The home game against his Watford team when they threw away a 2 goal lead seemed very Martinezesque.

The way Watford's form nosedived after we showed our interest would also be cause for concern: what would happen if he goes on a good run with us and then other teams start sniffing around?

What worries me about Allardyce is that when he leaves clubs, they tend to perform poorly - is that because they can't readjust from his route-one methods? Crystal Palace were in the doldrums under De Boer until Hodgson turned them around. Look what's happened to Sunderland since he left.

The next appointment for our club is absolutely vital. I'm afraid the likes of Simeone will not be coming to Everton. However, if there's one thing we can offer, it's big wages and a decent transfer kitty.

I'm not having it that no decent manager would want the challenge of managing Everton. I'd ideally like to see somebody like Arteta given a chance. If it's experience we're after then I'd look at Rafa Benitez. For a more realistic contender, I'd consider Sean Dyche.

Despite his misgivings, I wouldn't wish any harm on Allardyce. I'd thank him for helping us stay up and then do my best to try and forget season 2017-18. One thing I've learned from this season though is not to get caught up in any pre-season optimism or to start making noises to RS fans that we're assembling a better team than them. I've never ever said this in my 40 seasons of supporting the Blues but roll on the summer.

Ian Riley
44 Posted 24/04/2018 at 00:32:49
Top eight is not bad. Almost respectable from where we have come from. Job done by sam and his team. The football is not good to watch but realistically are we capable of playing pass and move football we desire? Players need to go this summer. The manager may go as well but could anyone done better with this current squad?

If the manager had been anyone else except sam allardyce, would they have to justify a further season in charge?

Jason Wilkinson
45 Posted 24/04/2018 at 00:56:00
Question: Is the boring football stopping more people having a go at Moshiri over the new ground?
Or: Is the delay to the new ground stopping more people having a go at Moshiri over the boring football?
Or: Is it still Kenwright, Elstone, Moyes, Martinez and Koeman's fault?
Simon Dalzell
46 Posted 24/04/2018 at 01:46:33
Ian (#44),

"Could anyone have done any better?"

Are you serious? The Improvement in league position has been achieved despite this disgusting charlatan.

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