When 'Legends' were Thin on the Ground — Part 3.

Derek (27), just for old times sake, who scored the two goals for Worcester, it's too late now but I would have loved to buy them a drink.

I think you could be right about Jimmy Harris being the oldest living Everton player. I remember getting on the 14 bus and went upstairs and there was Jimmy Harris. I think at the time he was courting a girl from Croxteth and I think her name was Roberta Brown, she was Miss Great Britain at the time.

Could you imagine any kid getting on a bus these days and seeing one of their idols sitting there? How times have changed, I think that's why fans are more critical of players now than when we were growing up, they always seemed so more accessible. Also there wasn't the nastiness among the different fans as there is today.

Like you, Dave, when I started going the match, there was no segregation, and the same when you travelled away with your team. Off course there wasn't mass TV coverage as there is today, only an England game on TV certainly no league games were shown till MOTD came along with their Saturday night highlights started in 1962.

Another thought occurs. Liverpool sacked manager Phil Taylor shortly afterwards to replace him with Bill Shankley. Perhaps Worcester didn't do us Blues a favour after all!

You owe me a 'Diet Coke' for making me burn the midnight oil last night.

George glared at me for a moment then said,'Didn't you ever see Ron Saunders play? ' He was the only centre-forward I learned to beware of, now he WAS a tough bastard !'

He only played a handful of games for Everton, but to Ron goes that particular glory!

As a player he was described as bold and aggressive, and he was the cousin of George Saunders, who will be featured later in this thread.

Hi Len [#34], I believe Billy Bingham does still live in Southport, and can be seen quite often in the Prince of Wales Hotel obviously enjoying his retirement, and why not?

This particular thread seems to have created a bit more interest, but mainly from the older Evertonians, although one or two, have admitted to not being familiar, with the names of some of the players featured.

"Blunt, unyielding, and a strict disciplinarian, consequently the teams that he managed often produced dull unimaginative football.

However, he collected a few prizes, and the best of the lot was winning the League Championship with Aston Villa in1981. He then set them on the way to the European Cup Final, before rocking the boat and leaving for near neighbours Birmingham City.

Earlier, he had tasted League Cup success in 1975 and 1977, and was a beaten finalist in the same competition in 1973 and 1974, while winning the Second Division title in 1972 and taking the runner's up spot in 1975. Later he guided Birmingham City into the top flight in 1985."

So for a bold, aggressive, blunt, unyielding disciplinarian, not to mention 'Grumpy Bugger' – he didn't do so bad did he?

John, I am surprised Ron Saunders only played three times for Everton; if the game at Cardiff was the 3-1defeat, I was at that game and Jimmy Harris played and scored Everton's goal. I would have bet money (not a lot) that Saunders played quite a few games for the Blues.

Terry (21) your old school and church are still in fine shape, I've been to three or four funerals there in the last two years, two of them for good Evertonians,at one of them Duncan McKenzie attende, not sure but did Tony McNamara, former Everton player, go to St. Mathews?

He has a very peculiar accent which is best described as posh Northern Irish. It was especially enjoyable when he accidentally slipped a Belfast phrase into his plummy vowels. One example is using the word 'till' instead of 'to' and preceding it with the word 'for' as in: "We did not come to the World Cup for till be anyone's whipping boys." A fine manager.

Thanks again to Steve Johnson's wonderful "Everton Results" website, we find that, in 1955, we lost 3-1 away to Cardiff with Jimmy Harris scoring for us but beat them 2-0 at Goodison later in the season with goals from Eddie Wainwright and that man, Tony Mac.

As John Mc, Snr has previously said (#36), the 3 appearances by Ron Saunders were in the 1954-55 season.

I reminded him of that goal in St Luke's church a couple of years ago, he was sitting with Derek Temple and Jimmy Harris, sadly he didn't remember the goal (dementia/ alhziemers) but came back with "a great goal eh" he was sitting with his son who was acting as his carer that day.

Thanks for putting me wise over the Cardiff result. It looks like I saw that match in the right year 1955 but it was the 1955-56 season.

Playing at Number 8 for us that day was Jimmy Gauld, remember him? I think it was his first game also. Scored 8 in 26 games during his one and only season with us. Then went on to be a major part of the betting and match-fixing scandal in the mid-60s that cost us Tony Kay.

Yes, I remember Jimmy Gauld, he played against us earlier in the season at Charlton, we won 2-0, I always maintain that was the first time football was shown on a Saturday night (football highlights of First Division football) the Charlton - Everton game was one of two matches shown, but I can never find any concrete evidence of those games being the first; I definitely know they were shown.

Anyway, back to that game: Was Donavon the captain that day? If I am right about Eggo scoring, then it's possible Peter Farrell also played and Peter was usually the captain, unless he was injured. In my head, Donavon was captain that day.

Peter Farrell did play that day and was presumably captain. According to "Everton Results", Ken Birch went off for about 15 minutes in the first half and so we were with 10 men when Donovan scored.

I was in the Army when the Manchester United game took place, You are correct when you say that Jimmy Gauld made his debut that day, He joined Everton in October 1956 from Charlton Athletic for a fee of 㾶,500 and was transferred to Plymouth Argyle in October 1957 for a fee of ٣,000.

Hi Dave, [47], I've had to go to the research department for this information, the team that day was, Dunlop, Donovan, Tansey, Birch, Jones, Farrell, McNamara, Gauld, Kirby, Fielding, and Eglington. I should imagine that Peter Farrell would have been captain.

With regards to the televised football match, I have no recollection of that, my understanding is that the first televised Football League match, was the second half of a Blackpool versus Bolton Wanderers game in the early Sixties, a boring 0-0 draw. I am not saying that you are wrong, just that I can't recall it,

As soon as I've submitted this post I'll try 'Google' to see If we can shed some light on the matter.

An early attempt at showing 'Live Football' was made in the early sixties when ITV agreed a deal with the Football League worth 𧵎,000 to screen 26 matches. The first live League match was Blackpool vs Bolton Wanderers on 10 September 1960, which Bolton Wanderers won 1-0 in a half-empty stadium.

Billy Bingham was quite a character indeed.

I remember walking into the manager's office at Goodison around Christmas time 1976. There, sat in his chair with his feet on the table, a large glass of yuletide spirit, smoking a big cigar, was the effervescent, besuited, well-built Northern Irishman. Ruddy-faced and telling a tale of two.

The good times at Everton were about to come to an end for Billy, however, as he would be replaced soon into the New Year by the pale rider that was Gordon Lee.

John, how did you get the evidence about Everton being one of the first teams to be shown on tv for recorded games, I've tried hard to convince many people about that, even got Dave Prentice of the Echo to try and find news of it through the Echo records to no avail, thanks for that John, that's another Diet Coke I owe you, you'll have to take some home and give them to Josh !!!!!!!!

Incidentally you and I would have been among the 53,728 who watched Everton beat Wolverhampton Wanderers 3-1 with goals from Roy Vernon [2] and Jimmy Harris.

That game was played early in the 1960-61 season and was the game after we beat Blackpool 4-1 at Bloomfield Road. I was at that game with my Dad and remember Roy scoring with the ball sticking in the top corner stantion.

Those were, I think, my most special time to be watching the Blues. We scored goals for fun and my particular favourites from then, Mickey Lill and Tommy Ring, made watching highly enjoyable as we also began to add top players like Gabriel and Young.

Terry, I would have been at the Wolves game enjoying Roy Vernon's goals and all-round game but don't think I was at the Blackpool game. As you say, it was great to watch Everton in those days with Vernon, who I rated better than Alex Young, although they were both great players along with Tommy Ring, Gabriel, Kay, Wilson and others.

Mickey Lill also played his part but had a lot of injuries in his short time at Everton, came from Wolves but I don't remember where he went to from the Blues or if his injuries forced him out of the game.

After a little over two seasons at Fratton Park, followed by one season in the Southern League with Guildford City, Lill left English football in May 1966 to join Germiston Callies in South Africa. He soon became manager/coach of the club after retiring from playing for the period 1968 to 1973.

He left Callies to manage Jewish Guild (based in Johannesburg). He eventually worked as a PE teacher at Sacred Heart College, Observatory, just outside central Johannesburg.

He died of cancer in October 2004, aged 68.

Yes Terry, that was a wonderful time to be an Evertonian, it was a wonderful time to be a football supporter, when both sides went all out for a win.

Hi Dave [56], the Blackpool vs Bolton Wanderers game was played on the Saturday with an evening kick-off, ITV hoped to gain viewers from the afternoon games. I'm going to say they only showed the second half, but don't put money on it, 'I was wrong with the score'.

After leaving Everton Mickey Lill had spells with Plymouth Argyle, Portsmouth, and Guilford. He moved to South Africa and played for a club called Germiston Callies, he played for a team in South Africa with Ian St John, but I'll have to verify which one.

I can't find out who scored the Bolton goal, but I'll keep trying, I quite liked Freddie Hill, I once saw a photo of him in a newspaper and thought I was looking at Brian Labone.

This VAR is not doing anything for me, other than irritate me, I would much rather watch football the 'Old-fashioned way'.

I have a recollection of Mickey playing in a reserve game at Earle's ground between Everton and Wolves but can't remember if Mickey played for the Blues or Wolves, the game was played at Earle because Goodison Park was getting the underground wiring installed. They also played a reserve game at Anfield during this period against Huddersfield Town reserves, we won 3-1.

I'm sure when my old man first took me to Goodison for ressie games, at least half the proggie was related to the FL game across the park. I have recently hunted in vain for copies of these publications but have come to accept they went on a divorce bongy in 1984!

Anyone out there who can comment?

We were dynamite at home!! Undefeated with 6-1 wins against Leicester, Nottm Forest and Chelsea.

Catterick was appointed in 1962.

The 8-2 defeat at Newcastle was on the day that Dave Hickson made his debut for Liverpool, scoring both goals in a 2-1 win over Aston Villa, whose goal was scored by Peter McParland, but I expect that you already know that.

I attended the Bradford City FA Cup game, and recall Bobby Collins accusing some of his team-mates of being too interested in getting back to Liverpool, and the 'Royal Tiger Club.'

Hi Dave [61], Terry has given you an accurate account of Everton's failings on the road and excellent home form, but as an avid Evertonian you'll be well aware, that the 6-1 victory was when Tommy Ring made his debut, against Nottingham Forest. So please accept that this information is for those who weren't aware of this.

ps: The run without an away win stretched from 27 December 1958 – Bolton Wanderers 3-0, to 5 September 1960 – Blackpool 4-1... 18 months (allowing for the close season).

To move on, I also attended the Bradford City cup tie. My Dad had a cousin who lived in Bradford so we went over the Pennines to visit and to go to the match. Tea afterwards was rather a sullen affair, if I recall, at least on my part. That game was truly the nadir of supporting the Blues. But brighter days were to come.

Tommy Ring did indeed make his debut 2 weeks later in the 6-1 win over Forest. Naturally, a 2-0 defeat at Fulham intervened. Eddie Thomas got a hat trick v Forest in what I presume was his last game for us as Royston was in the line up the following week, another away loss. But he then scored 6 goals in the next 4 league games. The stuff of which legends are born.

Gordon Banks played for Germiston, breaking his arm if I recall. George Best turned out for Jewish Guild.

Any rain yet in Cape Town?

What I would object to, is the use of unnecessary strong language, and the vilification of fellow posters, just because their opinions do not meet with approval.

I am happy to say that thanks to the people who respond to my articles, I do not fear that threads are in danger of falling into either of those categories,

I suppose I may be looked upon by some as a bit of a prude but my feelings are that I wouldn't like anything that has my name associated, considered unsuitable to be read, by anyone, of any age.

Your threads are a seat in the shade of an oak tree on a summers day. To be quietly savoured.

I'm pleased to learn that you will be on your best behaviour, whilst responding to any contribution I may make, and it seems to me that you are enjoying this latest one.