Watford sack Silva blaming Everton for unsettling him

Sunday, 21 January, 2018 178comments  |  Jump to most recent

Watford have sacked Marco Silva, blaming Everton's approach for the Portuguese manager prior to their appointment of Sam Allardyce in November as the "catalyst for this decision".

Silva was installed as the Blues' hierarchy's top choice to succeed Ronald Koeman following the Dutchman's dismissal in October but their attempts to prise him away with reported offers of £10m in compensation from Vicarage Road were rebuffed.

Watford fans were critical of Silva's rhetoric at the time where he appeared reluctant to state his unreserved commit to seeing out his contract there and reports that he wanted to take the Everton job.

A statement from Hertfordshire club said: "The Club is convinced the appointment of Silva was the right one and had it not been for the unwarranted approach by a Premier League rival for his services we would have continued to prosper under his leadership.

"This has been a difficult decision and one not taken lightly. The catalyst is that approach, something which the board believes has seen a significant deterioration in both focus and results to the point where the long-term future of Watford has been jeopardised."

Silva was hired by Watford on the back of his impressive spell at Hull City last season where he gave the doomed Yorkshire club a fighting chance of staying in the top flight with a string of home wins.

He looked to be adding to his burgeoning reputation this term but since beating Newcastle 3-0 in late November, the Hornets have won just once in 11 Premier League games.

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Reader Comments (178)

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Jon Withey
1 Posted 21/01/2018 at 10:30:30
Haha, Sky Sports reporting Watford sacked Silva, you couldn't make it up.

Maybe Allardyce was the better appointment of the two after all.

Terence Tyler
2 Posted 21/01/2018 at 10:39:47
Jon, they are blaming Everton for the downturn.
Kunal Desai
3 Posted 21/01/2018 at 10:41:07
Watford have now just sacked Silva. Daft decision. Only 2 points behind us.
Keith Monaghan
4 Posted 21/01/2018 at 10:41:34
So Watford have sacked Marco Silva!!!
Alexander Lee
5 Posted 21/01/2018 at 10:42:06
Marco Silva is now available.. Another of these performances next time out and bye bye Allardyce..?
Brian Williams
6 Posted 21/01/2018 at 10:46:26
Marco Silva? So Allaradyce out for a manager of a team that sits below us in the league?

Sorry, I just don't see the logic in that one.

Chris Corn
7 Posted 21/01/2018 at 10:48:47
Brian, I couldn't agree more. How many Premier League games has Silva actually won? I don't think it's many... It's just like for like.
Jon Withey
8 Posted 21/01/2018 at 10:52:10
I suppose if Watford finish below us, it was a political master-stroke to destabilise them. I'm guessing that was just a fluke though.
Jamie Evans
9 Posted 21/01/2018 at 10:57:34
Our first choice to replace Koeman is now available and I see we even get a mention in the official statement from Watford.

The question is: where does that leave Big Undies?

We couldn't sack two managers in the same season, could we?

Eric Paul
10 Posted 21/01/2018 at 11:00:13
So Watford have sacked the manager they wouldn’t let us talk to, now they have to pay his contract up.
Mark Wynne
11 Posted 21/01/2018 at 11:07:04
What do you think the possibility of us paying off Allardyce and hiring Silva is?
Colin Glassar
12 Posted 21/01/2018 at 11:11:43
Did Silva go on strike to get his own back on the Watford board? That’s what the Watford fans are saying.
Eric Paul
13 Posted 21/01/2018 at 11:13:08

I don’t think anyone will be asking permission to talk to Allardyce.

Oliver Brunel
14 Posted 21/01/2018 at 11:14:54
Surprised by the Watford sacking. I think he's a good trainer at a poor club.

I mean what exactly are the Watford board expecting? To win the Champions League in a town of as grim as a month of Sundays?

At least Milton Keynes has some concrete cows...

Gavin Johnson
15 Posted 21/01/2018 at 11:18:14
Yes Jon,

Watford are blaming us in their statement for Silva's loss of focus. I think they'd lost one in nine and were sat 5th when we made the approach.

Would anyone ditch Allardyce and bring Silva in now he's a free agent?

James Hughes
16 Posted 21/01/2018 at 11:23:03
The football world has clearly gone mad. Watford refused point-blank to let us talk to Silva and refused to even discuss a deal and compensation. Now they sack him and it's out fault; they will probably put in a claim for us to pay him.
Jeff Armstrong
17 Posted 21/01/2018 at 11:30:30
I’d stick with Allardyce until the end of the season, then go for Silva. Tip him the nod now so he stays free; to do the change now would be far too risky.
Steve Brown
18 Posted 21/01/2018 at 11:32:51
Seems we dodged a bullet in not hiring Silva. Unfortunately we then got hit by an RPG called Allardyce.

What we need now is another lengthy post by Mike Hughes explaining that his appointment wasn't the lowest point in Everton's already sorry recent history, but in fact a masterstroke in hiring a misunderstood managerial genius.

Colin Glassar
19 Posted 21/01/2018 at 11:41:59
Sounds like Moshiri has ruined two clubs now.
Mark Wynne
20 Posted 21/01/2018 at 11:44:04
I think Silva is fine. I think it’s the set-up at Watford that causes all the bother. He wasn’t my first choice, but if I woke up tomorrow to Everton having sent Allardyce on gardening leave to be replaced by Silva, I’d be ecstatic.
Grant Rorrison
21 Posted 21/01/2018 at 11:48:49
Hopefully Watford will come in for Allardyce now.
Eddie Dunn
22 Posted 21/01/2018 at 11:49:34
On the Watford sacking of Silva and blaming Everton's interest for their slight drop-off in form, could we possibly be about to stunningly sack Sam and bring in Silva?
Colin Glassar
23 Posted 21/01/2018 at 12:10:54
Mark, I read an article a few weeks ago by the Watford CEO and he said the manager is way down on their list of priorities as they are mere coaches who are easily replaceable.

I honestly think Silva’s head was turned by us and he lost interest in the Watford job. It’s not very professional but it happens. I’d take him over Big Sam any day.

Tony McNulty
24 Posted 21/01/2018 at 12:19:27
Watford might as well blame Bill Kenwright's Great Great Grandfather. He was, after all, party to the sequence of events which led to Everton's approach for their manager.

You see this more and more in football (and Mourinho is the master): light a fire in one part of the building to take attention away from what you yourself have failed to do in another part.

Robert Leigh
25 Posted 21/01/2018 at 12:20:16
Agree with you a Colin; Silva wanted to come to us and his head went.

Watford have an appalling record with their managers, I’m sure he thought they’d be perfect for him to stay in the Premier League before getting a good, stable job.

Colin Glassar
26 Posted 21/01/2018 at 12:27:33
Silva has worked, recently, for two seriously dysfunctional clubs. Hull was a mess on and off the field (remember the renaming of the club?) with their Egyptian owners, then he got involved with the Pozzo clan who are, reportedly, insane. Thinking about it, he’d probably feel at home with the Moshiri/Kenwright circus.
Gavin Johnson
27 Posted 21/01/2018 at 12:28:33
I believe Watford's results have been affected by our approach for Silva. I say lets jettison Allardyce now and bring him in. Big Sam's pay off package will be offset by the £10m we were originally gonna pay Watford in compensation.
John Pickles
28 Posted 21/01/2018 at 12:36:24
I reckon if we make some 'unwarranted approaches' to Guardiola, Mourinho, Conte, Klipperty, Pochettino, Wenger, Dyche and Puel we could still win the league this season.
Tony McNulty
29 Posted 21/01/2018 at 12:42:18
Top marks, John
James Marshall
30 Posted 21/01/2018 at 12:43:12
Silva's sacking is being blamed on Everton by Watford. They're saying our approach was the 'catalyst' for his demise and the long term future of Watford FC.

Well to be fair we could now just swap Allardyce for Silva, see how it all works out, then shake hands & make up. The managerial equivalent of a pub arm-wrestle.

What's the worst that could happen!?

Mark Tanton
31 Posted 21/01/2018 at 12:49:45
Silva had it coming. Ten weeks into the Watford job and he fluttered his eyelashes at Everton. Now he’s got a loyalty and credibility problem.
Davie Turner
32 Posted 21/01/2018 at 13:10:21
Mark: Silva has a loyalty and credibility problem? He was sacked by Watford who have a board that is the last word in loyalty and credibility problems.

Anyway, I'd still hire him tomorrow to replace the 'need to be more boring', 'precious point' manager with more problems than most and an absolute credibility absence.

Gary Willock
33 Posted 21/01/2018 at 13:34:20
Moshiri wanted Silva, and was prepared to pay £10m to get him.

Option a) Sack Steve Walsh now, and give Silva the Director of Football ‘title' until the end of the season. Let him get to know the club and be ready to hit the ground running next season.

Option b) Get rid of the Sammy NOW, and use the £10m to pay them off.

This club is in limbo, and in trouble. The atmosphere in Goodison yesterday was as bad as I have seen. Angry, sarcastic, depressed, not arsed. The "hit it up in the air and hope" football is killing this club.

Vijay Nair
34 Posted 21/01/2018 at 13:38:37

"we could now just swap Allardyce for Silva, see how it all works out"

If only we could...

I think we're stuck with this clown for the foreseeable future.

Mike Hughes
35 Posted 21/01/2018 at 13:42:09
If Silva's head was turned by our approach, that would not bode well for his appointment at EFC would it? If he does well, one of the bigger clubs will approach and he'll be off.

Regarding his ability to work with dysfunctional clubs, EFC are definitely in that category. We are a shambles from top to bottom, with or without money, with or without Allardyce, Walsh, Rooney, Schneiderlin, Martina, Williams et al.

I don't know what the answer is. Judging by the posts I read on here every few days, I don't think anyone else does either.

It's the hope that kills us.

Rudi Coote
36 Posted 21/01/2018 at 13:51:56
Silva? No thanks. I can't understand all the interest in this guy. He took Hull down even having 22 games to "do his bit".

Watford will go the same way despite him having a major part of the season to "do his thing"

The guy is a failure. BIG time.

Everton is heading for the Championship. Live with it.

Peter Jansson
37 Posted 21/01/2018 at 13:58:41
Walsh out, I say.

Silva in?

James Stewart
38 Posted 21/01/2018 at 13:59:58
Silva will go on to do well elsewhere. Watford are a joke club and should be investigated with all their dodgy deals between clubs.

I would take him in a heartbeat over Allardyce. Alehouse manager turning us into an alehouse team.

Nigel Munford
39 Posted 21/01/2018 at 14:12:57
Sorry, Peter, Silva's not the answer. He's only won 1 in the last 10.
Nigel Munford
40 Posted 21/01/2018 at 14:14:52
Why would we consider Silva now, he’s a reject from a club below us.
Paul Smith
41 Posted 21/01/2018 at 14:34:11
What if Marco downed tools agitating for a move? Players do it so why can't managers? Unlikey, yes but I'm desperate for a chink of light. Besides wouldn't it trash any future credibility with his new club?
Les Martin
42 Posted 21/01/2018 at 14:34:59
As for Silva's lack of focus, what sort of wallflower is this bloke? He gets a sulk and throws in the towel because he doesn't get his own way! If true and I find it hard believe, do we really want a character lacking spine as the backbone of our team?
Brian Williams
43 Posted 21/01/2018 at 14:35:03
I looked at their stats pre and post approach and they're not THAT different to be honest. We dodged a bullet in my opinion.

W D L GF GA Win%

Before 11 4 3 4 17 21 36%

After 13 3 2 8 16 23 23%

Drew O'Neall
44 Posted 21/01/2018 at 14:45:52
I wonder if a deal with Everton is already done?
Brian Williams
45 Posted 21/01/2018 at 14:58:32
Hopefully, Drew, that deal would be "Don't call us – we won't call you!"
Kevin Hudson
46 Posted 21/01/2018 at 14:58:47
They’ve had 12 managers in the last 9 years but this is OUR fault?!

Cheeky bastards!!

Oh...and stop using our song please.

Sean Patton
47 Posted 21/01/2018 at 14:59:01
Haha... seems like those car-crash owners have had a taste of their own medicine.

Also blaming Everton for their downturn is laughable when I bet they will go and do exactly the same thing in appointing their new manager.

Colin Glassar
48 Posted 21/01/2018 at 15:00:52
If Moshiri was serious he'd get rid of luvvie duvvie and his crew and get in serious football people like David Dein and Usmanov (rumours stating again to surface) to reorganise and re-energise this club.

I'm not sure about Silva as manager but anyone, right now, would be better than the Two Sammys.

Neil Copeland
49 Posted 21/01/2018 at 15:16:12
Sacking Allardyce will achieve nothing but would cause yet more turmoil. We are Everton not some poxy fart-arsed club like Watford, we need to show at least some loyalty.

Yes, we were dreadful again yesterday but we need to stick with it and let him see the job through to the end of the season and revisit it then. He remains our best chance of staying up and that needs to be the priority.

I can't decide what I think about Silva, on one hand his credibility would appear to be very suspect but on the other hand what has actually been said to him by the Watford board? Either way I don't think he is the man to take EFC forwards – it doesn't feel right.

Goodison felt toxic yesterday, that needs to change also, the team needs its supporters more than ever.

Lastly, I really hope James McCarthy has a speedy recovery.

Michael Lynch
51 Posted 21/01/2018 at 15:18:21
You cannot be serious. Take Silva now? He's relegated one club and has a record of one win in ten with his current club, who are playing so badly now that they are even below us, and we're utter shite.

Yeah, we could certainly take Silva now and we can join Hull in the Championship. I dunno, maybe I'm weird or something, but I don't want to be watching Everton playing Burton Albion, just on the off chance of us being a bit more attacking.

Andrew James
52 Posted 21/01/2018 at 15:23:38
I'm afraid not for me. He's not done enough anywhere to convince me. I would maybe think it worth a go if we had a solid defence on which to build as he would hopefully sort the attack out but we haven't.

At the end of the day, we approached Watford the correct way and were prepared to pay the price. Maybe this is merely them paying the price for chopping and changing every season so that there's little loyalty in their ranks nor belief you won't get moved on after a season. They live and die by their own sword with that environment.

As for us, yesterday was horrible. We cannot persist with this management, they're already making creative excuses like Koeman was doing earlier this season. Last week he blamed the players, this week it was their mentality, next time it'll be them forgetting to wear their lucky underwear...

Like Koeman he takes no responsibility for tinkering too much or playing individuals who have been dross all season. That shows me he doesn't have an answer once the rather basic and ugly Plan A isn't working. And oh my is it ugly.

James Morgan
53 Posted 21/01/2018 at 15:34:46
Haha, laughable. Watford are a basket case club, blaming us is ridiculous. I wouldn’t want Silva anywhere near Everton, even before his demise. He’s proved nowt.
David Pearl
54 Posted 21/01/2018 at 15:36:08
Goodison Park needs to change, hilarious really the booing Niasse onto the pitch for him to score within a minute. More like ale-house support for that ale-house manager.

I want to see more passing from the back, better movement, and better support for the team on the pitch. Sitting in Goodison, having to listen to shit remarks from people who must be watching a different game to me.

Schneiderlin got the brunt of it yesterday as per usual while having a good game. There are signs of improvement (but not for Kenny, Martina, Vlasic or Bolasie).

Jay Wood

55 Posted 21/01/2018 at 15:36:15
For anyone canvassing to appoint Silva now or in the summer, read Brain Williams @ 43.

Dodged bullet indeed.

As for Watford shifting the blame on to Everton, comic gold.

Jay Wood

56 Posted 21/01/2018 at 15:40:45

My reading of the booing at Niasse's entry yesterday was that it was directed at the manager for not withdrawing another player, rather than Tosun, to have 2 strikers on the field rather than the one.

Pure speculation on my part, because I can't imagine the boos being directed at the popular figure of Niasse or the new player, Tosun.

Worked out all right though, didn't it?

Neil Copeland
57 Posted 21/01/2018 at 15:43:28
David, I think the boos were because we swapped one striker for another instead of adding a second striker at the expense of a defensive midfielder. I don't think they were aimed at Niasse at all.
Neil Copeland
58 Posted 21/01/2018 at 15:44:14
Jay, beat me to it!
Brian Wilkinson
59 Posted 21/01/2018 at 15:45:10
David, I think it was more of a case of taking Tucson off rather than Niasse coming on for the booing.

A case of playing Niasse and Tuson together for the remainder of the match would have been better.

Brian Wilkinson
60 Posted 21/01/2018 at 15:46:40
Yip Jay beat me to it as well Neil, great minds think alike.
Winston Williamson
62 Posted 21/01/2018 at 15:52:58
Dodged a bullet and got struck by a knife in the process!

How many wins in our last ten games from the master of avoiding relegation?

Levels of acceptability and standards have plummeted in Evertonia!

David Barks
63 Posted 21/01/2018 at 15:58:45
The booing when Niasse was brought on was clearly a reaction to the manager taking a striker off while being down 1-0 at home. It was clear as day.

As for Silva and saying he relegated Hull, no. He was appointed in January while they were all but relegated already. He went on to win 8, draw 3 and lose 11. He got them 27 points in the 22 matches he was in charge, of a horrific Hull side.

As for Watford blaming us, how many times have you all wrote about players being tapped up and blaming that for their performances dropping? Nobody remembers Lescott? For weeks now there have been stories about the team being unsettled during that time and multiple players were already talking to Silva pleading for him to sign them for Everton. Focus was lost. It was known that he wanted to go but wasn’t allowed and the players lost focus knowing the same thing, that their manager might leave and that focus isn’t something that is easily snapped back.

They have certainly gone through a rough patch. But it’s been nowhere near as bad as the shite being served up by Allardyce. Compare the two squads and see what he’s gotten out of his players compared to Sam, 400 minutes without a shot on target, Allardyce.

George Cumiskey
64 Posted 21/01/2018 at 16:12:52
I'd swap Silva for fat Sam right now, I think he'd get a lot more out of this squad than the dour rubbish Allardyce is serving up.

But then it's all just speculation as it's never going to happen.

Kev Johnson
66 Posted 21/01/2018 at 16:22:11
Kev @40 – very funny!

It is our song, Hornets!!!

Oliver Brunel
67 Posted 21/01/2018 at 16:23:54
Has anyone thought of the following scenario: that Silva has been recently tapped up by Moshiri in order to pave the way for Big Sam being called a taxi?
Neil Smith
68 Posted 21/01/2018 at 16:27:21
If you get Silva you will find he is a good coach and would do Everton well. He got sacked because of results and not because of Everton.

Don't believe what the media says. He had the tools at the beginning of the season but with 9-10 injuries since October he was using players that just were not up to it.

We have been top of the injury list since then and behind the scenes the Medical staff that were brought in and not by Silva are a disgrace to the club. Which is why the sacked head of medical at Watford is suing the club over dismissal.

Good luck if you get him but in my honest opinion he will do well for Everton he is a good coach and has a good style of play. Good luck, Toffees.
John Pierce
69 Posted 21/01/2018 at 16:28:32
How can British clubs, where the average tenure of 18 months in the Premier League, look at Silva and go, "Nah, bit of a butterfly, that lad"?

Several posters alluded to it, he won't have any credibility as he's moved around.

Koeman, anyone? Allardyce, anyone? Have you read their CVs? Both have caravans and will travel.

We do operate through a dated prism of yesteryear. And we also seem to think Premier League experience is key, but the merry go round of shit Premier League managers is there for all to see. Time to get off that carousel.

Everton do need to dispense with that because there's no risk or joy in appointing an experienced Premier League manager.

Whilst operating at a different plane, the top six teams all have managers who came from the continent or beyond with no Premier League experience.

Wenger, Mourinho with Chelsea, Klopp, Conte, Guardiola okay maybe Poch doesn't quite fit. But you get my drift.

Point being we as a club don't take risks, and Sam was safe as it comes. Silva was not safe, still isn't... but time for us to break the mould and go for it on the next appointment?

Geoff Williams
70 Posted 21/01/2018 at 16:31:27
Why would we want this man as our manager!
Sam Hoare
71 Posted 21/01/2018 at 16:42:56
Silva has managed two very poor clubs in the league and improved them both.

I advocated him before Allardyce and still would.

He might not be my first choice (Tuchel or Fonseca) but I still think he’d do a better job than Koeman or Allardyce (so far).

Michael Lynch
72 Posted 21/01/2018 at 16:56:18
Sam @64, Allardyce has improved the points total of every club he has managed, including us so far. So what? Silva has done absolutely nothing yet to show that he is a Premier League quality manager.

You're entirely within your rights to think he'd do a better job than Koeman or Allardyce, but there's absolutely nothing to indicate that would be the case.

Gerry Quinn
73 Posted 21/01/2018 at 17:06:40
Based on the Watford drop in results, shouldn't we go for that prat Klopp? :)
Gavin Johnson
74 Posted 21/01/2018 at 17:08:11
Totally agree with Sam Hoare. Depends if you think Silva's the emperor's new clothes or a talented coach. Whether Watford's downturn was always coming or a direct consequence of Silva's having his head turned.

I think it's the latter in both instances and we should bring him in ASAP. Big Sam's anti-football philosophy is killing me. He needs to go!!

James Stewart
75 Posted 21/01/2018 at 17:09:04

Agreed. Allardyce has served his purpose, we are not going to go down. I see no point in continuing his anti-football ideology any longer. Moyes is more qualified than Allardyce and on a heck of a lot less; what we are paying him for the rubbish that's served up is beyond belief.

This season has been a total nightmare as far as Everton are concerned and the sooner we get a manager in who actually wants to embrace actually having a go, the better.

Andy Meighan
76 Posted 21/01/2018 at 17:15:06
As Kevin (#40) said, they change managers more often than they change their shirt. So how is this our fault? We've had Allardyce for months now, so it's not as if we've still been courting him.

The thing that baffles me though is this: they sacked him and have already lined up a replacement a day later. Compare that to the shambles that was Everton when Ronnie boy was given the boot. The mind boggles...

Everton's fault? Nah, don't think so... They've been mulling over this for weeks.

David Barks
77 Posted 21/01/2018 at 17:15:20

Silva went on to win 8, draw 3 and lose 11 with a horrific Hull side after he was appointed. He improved their points total. Your statement is factually inaccurate. Hull were bottom of the league with 13 points before he took over.

Allardyce on the other hand has had 1,000 matches to prove that he is a worthless Premier League manager, never won a damn thing in his entire managerial career. He's a dinosaur in the game.

Colin Glassar
78 Posted 21/01/2018 at 17:20:04
I suppose we have to keep big Sam until the season finishes but please, please get rid as soon as the final whistle goes and get someone who actually understands the modern game and can compete with these young technocrats.

Pay off the Sams and give the big man a lifetime supply of chewy. I’m sure he’ll be fine.

Andy Dempsey
79 Posted 21/01/2018 at 17:23:11
Please get Silva in now.

Sure, people will be sceptical but his style of coaching and approach to matches will generate a buzz to shock the corpse that is Goodison into life, and he won't take us down, too many other shite teams for that.
Michael Lynch
80 Posted 21/01/2018 at 17:23:41
David Barks, look up the statistics. Sam has improved every side's points average per game after taking over as manager, including ours. Silva has done it twice, once subsequently getting relegated, once getting sacked.
Gavin Johnson
81 Posted 21/01/2018 at 17:24:59
Silva would be an instant improvement and I'd be open to his appointment, but I still think the Ginger Mourinho, Sean Dyche, would be the manager who would best fit with us and take us forward in the long term.
Steve Barnes
82 Posted 21/01/2018 at 17:27:16
So, you sack your manager every year. Your current manager wants to leave, and you're offered £10mill, but you say no .you then sack him because he's not as focused as he was... are Watford really run as badly as we are!?

Not sure about Silva, but Allardyce can't stay for a season and a half if he keeps slagging off every player in the squad in his post-match press conferences.

John Pierce
83 Posted 21/01/2018 at 17:31:30
Michael, I read many of your comments and posts. They are always measured and have a point.

However I always fundamentally disagree with you. Not about the facts you present but the sentiment. It's safe and risk averse.

Why would you point out statistics of both Silva and Allardyce to show one is better than the other? When patently both are managers Everton should move on from. Put more bluntly, one is shite; the other a touch more so.

We are never moving forward unless you risk something; meaningful progress is often only achieved that way. I understand you support Sam, or most of your posts offer a defence for him, but is the bar really that low?

David Pearl
84 Posted 21/01/2018 at 17:35:11
Anyone Blaming Allardyce is fuckin deluded. Or did the football under Koeman appeal more?

We are constantly carrying at least 3 Championship players. We need to fix that in the transfer market and get rid of those that are just not good enough.

And yes, of course, Sam Allardyce needs to set us up with capable players and style... but confidence of playing on the front foot comes from both the manager and the fans.

Colin Glassar
85 Posted 21/01/2018 at 17:35:56
Silva’s boat may have sailed regarding Everton. Mourinho, and a few others, rate Fonseca extremely highly. Could he be the one?

Anyone from Silva, Fonseca, Ancellotti, Pelegríni, Tuchel, Mancini and Paul McKenna would do for me.

Steve Brown
86 Posted 21/01/2018 at 17:36:12
Apparently Allardyce earns more than Pocchettino. I think it is £1 million per shot on target that Sam gets.
Steve Brown
87 Posted 21/01/2018 at 17:39:51
Okay David, the dross Allardyce has served up for 20 years is not his fault. At every club, it was the players and supporters. Whose deluded?

What we are getting is what many on here predicted from day one.

Michael Lynch
88 Posted 21/01/2018 at 17:42:24
John. All managerial appointments are a risk. Sam was a risk, Silva would have been a risk. The difference was the situation we were in meant we needed to take the least risky of the offerings. Sam's record is good, he keeps sides up, he steadies them, and he improves their points per game ratio. He has spent a career doing that.

Who else was available and willing to come to us that would have almost guaranteed steadying the ship before we got too far into the shit?

Am I risk averse? No, I but I am pragmatic. We are shite at the moment, we've been shite under three managers this season including Sam, but Allardyce was the first to be honest about it. So, as things stand would I prefer Allardyce to Silva. Yes. Because I don't want Everton in the Championship. Do I like the football we play under Sam? Well I don't know yet because we have such an unbalanced and under-performing squad at the moment.

But now that Sam is here, I'm perfectly happy to give him a decent run at turning us into an attractive side that wins games. The man has only signed two players so far, and one of them is Theo Walcott – as good a player as we could ever hope to attract, and as entertaining a player as we have had in our squad in years.

Football is a risk-averse business. Did Man City take a risk in appointing their manager? The Shite? Man Utd? Chelsea?

David Pearl
89 Posted 21/01/2018 at 17:51:55
Believe it or not, Steve, but he's only just got two of his own players in. So I think he deserves a bit more time. Obviously another manager could come in and turn Vlasic, Holgate, Kenny and Martina etc into class players hey. Or maybe not.

He had improved more or less every team he's coached. But don't let any facts get in the way of following the mob opinion.

Steven Kendrew
90 Posted 21/01/2018 at 18:13:34
Michael Lynch #82.

You have almost written the comment I was about to write!

In addition, think about where Sam is now. This is the last chance in his career to really hit the big time and win something. He will never manage a bigger club. I say we give him a good go and let build his own squad.

Also, have a think about how managers achieve “success”. Very few. Three or four? Even Klopp and Poch have only just begun to do well with good squads/teams. It takes time and work to get to that place.

All this “sack Sam” business is laughable. Silva? Maybe but not now.

John G Davies
91 Posted 21/01/2018 at 18:20:18
Silva for our next manager?

His Uncle, Long John, has got more chance of that.

Andy Crooks
92 Posted 21/01/2018 at 18:35:36
David, #79, so you believe anyone blaming Allardyce is "deluded". You have written that seriously?

When, in your view, does the fault become his? I have supported our club for a long time and what he is serving up is as bad as I have ever seen.

A lamentable, cowardly appointment that shames our club. The second worst manager in our history so far. By next week he will be the worst.
Sam Allardyce managing our club... Where in God's name did our aspiration go?

Chris Corn
93 Posted 21/01/2018 at 18:36:02
I despair at those who are serious about an immediate "Sack Allardyce, hire Silva" scenario. We are lacking credibility as it is with the scattergun approach to recruitment of both players and managers and Moshiri would just lose whatever credibility he has left and look like a Jesus Gil style owner.

I wouldn't mind if Silva was any better but he just looks like another mediocre foreign coach to me.

I can't be arsed defending Allardyce because the current situation is wholly acceptable, but Silva? Not for me... and I said it when we initially approached him.

Peter Warren
94 Posted 21/01/2018 at 18:47:03
Think how bad we are. And Watford are below us.
John Pierce
95 Posted 21/01/2018 at 19:00:43
Chris, even if we did sack Sam and hire whoever today why would we lack credibility?

That notion is dated and like our manager, Jurassic. No one in a era of money and greed gives a ‘fook about loyalty and time. Each year 7–9 premier clubs change their manager, the average tenure is 18 months.

Expand that to the modern world, job security is less than ever and people hop jobs consistently.

Sorry, for me, managers are paid life-changing sums to simultaneously get it right immediately, handle the pressure of entertaining & expectations or do one.

They are dispensable and that's the global view.

Mark McDonald
96 Posted 21/01/2018 at 19:09:02
When we sacked Koeman I wanted a young, up and coming manager, his nationality I did not particularly care and preferably someone with premier league experience. Someone similar to Moyes who was young and hungry and with a point to prove. So out of the names circulating at the time I was in favour of Silva.

I have voiced my opinion on ToffeeWeb forums saying I did not want and still do not want Allardyce at our club. It is not just his personality I do not like, it is his brand of football.

Appointing Silva now would make us an even bigger laughing stock than we already are! As I mentioned yesterday we have 14 games left till the end of the season and hopefully the end of our current management structure. When was the last time a club sacked two managers in the one season - was it Swansea?

If Silva is still available in May/June and Moshiri still rates him and he wants to come here then go get your man. Give him the opportunity to silence his critics, for the board to 100% get behind our new manager and for Everton FC to get back to playing football the fans want to see.

Paul Swan
97 Posted 21/01/2018 at 19:17:28
I absolutely hate Sam Allardyce and everything he stands for.

However, the mismanagement of the club from the top has put us in a position that we have a gaggle of unorganized mercenaries, aged journeymen and unprepared youth seemingly thrown into every game with the same inevitable outcome. Someone needs to get a grip of this situation quickly and get some degree of organisation both on and off the field.

Is Allardyce that man? We've got to hope that but to change horses again this season would waste time and games that we simply don't have.

The current set up an the club with this so-called director of football simply does not work. All it means is that no-one overall takes responsibility for the absolute garbage served up for the last 2 seasons now.

We need players and a manager who hurt when performances like the ones we have seen too many times this season but it just is not happening. Allardyce has to step up get this sorted out . Another five-minute wonder like Silva is the last thing we need at the moment.

Brian Harrison
98 Posted 21/01/2018 at 19:18:00
How anyone can defend this puerile football that is being served up by Allardyce cant attend Goodison every week. The atmosphere is as bad as anything I have known in 65 years, that's because we don't play like a side that is going to take the game to the opposition.

Yesterday we were playing a team that is 2nd bottom and they were the team asking all the questions a team that had 1 win in the previous 16 games.

I was listening to comments by Harry Redknapp this morning saying Sam was telling everybody that coaches don't teach defending. He said I suggest you look at your own team first.

Allardyce celebrated 1000 games this weekend in football and for those championing him look at his record. Apart from gaining promotion from the 3rd division he has won nothing. His teams always play negative football, even though we had only 2 shots on target in our last 5 games he suggested we need to be more defensive. That's the equivalent of maxing out on 5 credit cards and suggesting you probably need another credit card.

The crowd cheered ironically after 35 minutes when Jonjoe Kenny had a shot on target. We knew it wasn't going in but we were trying to send a message to say you know that's what we pay our season ticket money for. Not to have 8 players strung across our own 18 yard box.

He has just spent in this window close to £50 million and we still haven't got a left back. I am not sure what Moshiri plans for the end of the season but even he only wanted to give Allardyce a 6 month contract.

So to save further embarrassment I suggested you stick to your initial thoughts and get shut at the end of the season. But please do your homework and get a manager that wants to play an attacking game.

Chris Corn
99 Posted 21/01/2018 at 19:18:08
John, of course managers are dispensable and they always have been. The old saying 'the only thing certain in management is the sack ' shows that. But tell me, why Silva?

I am a realist and the current situation is this, Allardyce came in and overtook Silva despite being some way behind. He has lost three league games including Man Utd at home and Spurs at Wembley.

Yes, performances at the moment are poor. But I tell you this, I have been an Evertonian for 40 plus years and I have seen some shocking stuff. Particularly from our last four managers. Anyone who says different is a revisionist.

Moyes went through some shocking runs of form and could go for ages without creating any chances and against perceived weaker opposition as well.

Martinez in his second two seasons just played turgid, slow possession in front of the opposition, albeit some will try and say he was a maverick and 'had a go' to serve an argument but it will be bollocks.

He even got jeered for winning three nil against QPR, so it proves Goodison is a tough audience. And as for Koeman, well if he had done what what was promised this thread wouldn't even exist.

Allardyce clearly divides opinion but to give him the sack to appoint Silva, based on their respective records is just not credible to me. If he goes it should be someone with pedigree, like a Mancini or similar and he certainly shouldn't go now.

Chris Corn
100 Posted 21/01/2018 at 19:30:34
Brian 93, I'm not defending Allardyce, I'm just saying that we have served up turgid,defence negative football regularly for years with a few exceptions. To claim this is exclusive to Allardyce is just untrue.

We have also been regularly kind to teams that are on a losing streak or strikers, midfielders who are on barren spells or don't score regularly. That is the way of Everton.

I've just read Paul Swann and couldn't agree more.

Neil Copeland
101 Posted 21/01/2018 at 19:36:48
For those calling for us to bring in Silva, think of another angle that comes with that change. The players are not performing as it is; no real surprise when you look at the turmoil of this season, not surprising either when Goodison is like a morgue and toxic towards particular players and the manager. The players need stability which in turn will help their confidence because they will hopefully be playing to a particular system and set of tactics.

I did not want Sam and would have preferred Silva at the time but now is not the time for more change – it would be disastrous. Now is the time to do our bit and get behind the team and the manager.

The Walcott signing really surprised me and I think we should draw some confidence from the fact that it was Sam (and Rooney) that attracted Theo here. This is a very positive signing, as is Tosun – how long did Koeman know we would without Rom for? The football at the moment is dreadful but there are some positives. Again I say, let's get behind them and show what Goodison is really about.

Tom Bowers
102 Posted 21/01/2018 at 19:37:46
You are so right, Chris (#94). Pointless to start slinging mud at Allardyce now. He had nothing to do with the Silva affair.

Watford only have themselves to blame and if Silva had come to Goodison there is absolutely no way of telling if things would be any different for Everton after a handful of games.

We know some managers have success very quickly when changing clubs but it usually doesn't last unless he is able to completely introduce his own players and backroom boys.

Allardyce has inherited a pigs ear of a squad which just isn't showing improvement and will not until new blood comes in at the back and midfield.

Tosun and Walcott have scoring ability along with good old Niasse (God bless him) but the drive and creativity from midfield is devoid at Goodison.

Allardyce should be given at least till the end of the season before he get's lambasted. His selection of the starting eleven's shows he is trying to give everyone an opportunity except of course those he has already decided are no longer required. Klaassen? Besic? Sandro? and one or two others we can all argue about.

Jay Harris
103 Posted 21/01/2018 at 19:38:59
What has Silva ever done to make him appeal to so many on here?

Tuchel, Ancilotti, Simeone, yes, but would they ever come to a club like ours at the moment, doubtful.

Silva is not even fit enough to warrant any comparison with them but if we are to improve and progress that is the standard we need to be aiming at.

For now, Allardyce is as good as we can attract, so we need to get behind him and stop this constant toxic sniping that is affecting the players as much as anyone else.

Bill Gienapp
104 Posted 21/01/2018 at 19:41:50
As much as I'd like to see Allardyce go, I suspect that would be far too much upheaval for a single season and, unless the board was 1000% convinced Silva is the next Pochettino, having three managers (arguably four, since Unsworth had a more extended run than your average caretaker) in a single campaign is rarely a good look.

Personally, I still rate Silva and do think his head was turned, causing the entire team to lose focus and go into a downward spiral (still, it's cheesy beyond belief for Watford's ownership to try and blame us publicly).

I imagine Silva will still be available in the summer, if we want him. But I have a feeling Fonseca may end up shifting into pole position.

Brian Harrison
105 Posted 21/01/2018 at 19:42:18

I have seen some terrible Everton teams over the decades but even the very worst ones at least tried to win. This mans sends teams out with one up and only when we are losing do you see us with men trying to get up and support the striker.

Even Palace and Swansea when they were bottom played with more attacking intent then we do under Allardyce. I didn't expect him to have us challenging for a top 6 spot.

This sis a club that have spent £200 million in the last 12 months, nobody outside the top 6 has spent anything like that.

Now I know he is only responsible for the near £50 million we have just spent on attackers, but I didn't see despite playing both any change in his philosophy, where players are more concerned about getting back than getting forward.

Eric Paul
106 Posted 21/01/2018 at 19:45:44
As much as I want Allardyce out, I think it would be counterproductive to get rid now given our precarious position.

We should get shut at the final whistle of the final game and get Eddie Howe in who has gone as far as he can with Bournemouth.

Justin Doone
107 Posted 21/01/2018 at 19:49:38
Unfortunately Sam's initial uplift proved to be short lived as many of us thought. We we're never in relegation danger but the short-sighted board panicked and left us with a terrible manager playing terrible football.

I haven't been back to Goodison this season but from watching highlights and reading posts I'll continue to stay away for the reminder of the season as nothing will change.

He's even brought Schneiderlin and Williams back as the central rock of the team. The man is an idiot. All the best to McCarthy but if we had to have another player break his leg why couldn't it have been Schneiderlin? He plays like hes injured anyway.

I don't want Silva but at least the football would be better and therefore if he's still the Boards main target (God help us) then be proactive and agree a deal with him for the summer before someone else does. Don't announce it as a coop just get it done and let us know once the season is finished.

John Keating
108 Posted 21/01/2018 at 19:51:43
I mentioned in another thread that although the team has been absolute shit since preseason the general consensus was Kenny Holgate Williams and Martina were the best, if that's the right word, defence.

We needed to play Lookman and/or Vlasic

We needed to drop Rooney who apparently is finished

We shouldn't play Calvert-Lewin as he's never a Premier League striker, too young and also a headless chicken.

We also needed to play Sigurdsson in his best position.

Well folks almost everything you wanted you got yesterday and there you have it.

Now some want Garbutt in, someone wants a five man attack.

Really it doesn't matter who plays, what system we play this team are a very poor mid table team at best.

Playing Lookman or Garbutt or Keane or anyone else will not change the shit we are. Hopefully we have enough about us to scrape a position out with the bottom 3 this season and fingers crossed sort ourselves out so that next season is not a rerun of this

Chris Corn
109 Posted 21/01/2018 at 19:55:33
Brian, we'll have to agree to disagree. Walter Smith once fielded a team with 7 right backs I think. Moyes got booed against Spurs for taking Arteta off to save a point and ended up losing and the crowd went bananas. He admitted going to Old Trafford hoping to 'just get out alive,' when he took the Man Utd job. Results there and other big grounds tended to corroborate that.There's three examples off the top of my head.

To balance it, Moyes also oversaw a 2-1 against Spurs with late goals from Pienaar and Jelavic and some of his teams at times played good stuff but he wasn't known as KITAP1 on this very forum for nothing.

You don't like Allardyce, that's for certain. I'm indifferent at this present time and don't want us sacking managers for the sake of it. If we can get a name in such as the likes of Jay Harris mentioned, then I'm happy to review my point of view. Just not Marco Silva though.

Dave Pritchard
110 Posted 21/01/2018 at 20:05:58
I agree with John K about the players. I thought Sam's selection on Saturday was as good as it could have been given that, whoever plays in defence, it doesn't make much difference.

Vlasic, who many called for, was dreadful... but then so was Sigurdsson etc etc. The players are mediocre; or, if we are being kind, are low on confidence.

Chris Corn
111 Posted 21/01/2018 at 20:09:57
You were right with 'mediocre', Dave.
Michael Lynch
112 Posted 21/01/2018 at 20:10:05
Chris Corn @106

Exactly. For those with a short memory, Moyes played some of the most safety-first football I've ever seen at Everton. The difference was, at one point he had a fantastic team available to him.

If Sam had Arteta, Pienaar, Osman, Baines and Coleman at their peak, there might be a case against him for playing Moyes type football. But he's got a kid just starting out in Kenny who is nowhere near ready, and at left back he's got a mediocre right back playing out of position. He's got Holgate, another kid who is learning his trade, alongside a past-it Williams.

Instead of Arteta, Pienaar and Osman knocking sweet little triangles about while Carsley shuts the opposition down and Cahill pops up to score heroic headers, he's got the unfathomably disinterested Schneiderlin, a misfiring Gueye, kids doing their best but not up to it yet like Davies and Baningime and Sigurdsson, who looks close to tears because he has nobody to pass to.

Compared to what Moyes had, this squad is utter dogshit. First thing Sam said when he arrived was how important it was to get injured players back, which is why a half fit Bolasie has been getting so much time.

Sam has some money to spend, and he's spending it decently so far I think. But whoever was put in charge of this team was going to struggle to do anything with it. Because it's shit.

Mark McDonald
113 Posted 21/01/2018 at 20:12:28
Jay (100) – we simply cannot attract let alone afford the likes of "Tuchel, Ancilotti, Simeone". We are simply not in that league.

It is clear also that many fans are split over Allardyce and Silva. A dinosaur playing negative football or a younger man at least trying to play attractive attacking football... and, as an Evertonian for over 50 years, I know which one I prefer.

Michael Lynch
114 Posted 21/01/2018 at 20:15:25
Mark @110

Or you could put it: an experienced manager who might save us from relegation and give us a platform to build on, or an inexperienced manager who failed to save a team from going down and has been sacked from his next job for losing so many games?

Chris Corn
115 Posted 21/01/2018 at 20:17:47
Mark, I heard two Watford fans on the radio last night slaughter Silva. One said he is not going the game next week and is going to Leyton Orient instead, such is the paucity of the football and that there was no entertainment.

Not knowing much about Watford, I'll tend to take their word for it.

Joe Foster
116 Posted 21/01/2018 at 20:18:39
Did Silva say "The big boys made me do it, sir!"
Mark McDonald
117 Posted 21/01/2018 at 20:22:51
Michael (#112),

Allardyce may have saved his previous clubs from relegation but what platform had he built before being sacked?

In fact, how many of Sam's previous Premier League clubs has he been sacked from?

Philip Bunting
118 Posted 21/01/2018 at 20:24:52
Eddie Howe all day long. Gets the best out of his squad on a shoestring and gets what Everton is about.
Len Hawkins
119 Posted 21/01/2018 at 20:27:40
Hi-Yo Silva Away!!
Brian Williams
120 Posted 21/01/2018 at 20:29:30
The same Eddie Howe in charge of the team with three less points than us?

Where's the logic in that?

David Barks
121 Posted 21/01/2018 at 20:29:45

You are becoming a regular with some ridiculous straw man arguments. No, we did not get the lineup we've been asking for. We still got fucking Schneiderlin in midfield, alongside the other defensive midfielder, McCarthy.

Two defensive midfielders of that type do nothing to help in attack or form any basis of a balanced midfielders. They are there for defense, making it a 6 man defense in all reality, at home to fucking West Brom.

Nobody on here wants Martina at left back. And people have been calling for Williams to be dropped off the face of the earth since last season. The only reason he's in there is apparently because Keane is still injured. Jagielka has been far better. I haven't seen anyone calling for Williams to be in the starting 11 instead of Jagielka when it comes down to a choice between the two.

Regarding your claim that every one was calling for Rooney to be dropped. Not true, not as simply as you're putting it. What many have been saying is that we should be done once and for all with the two defensive midfielders and put Rooney in the deep role so that Sigurdsson could play the Number 10, meaning we have a spine that could actually bridge defense to attack.

And regarding playing Vlasic and Lookman. It goes along with moving Rooney deeper, and playing with actual wide players. Giving them a chance instead of never letting them on, or giving them 45 minutes over a month.

We didn't have Walcott until yesterday, so he wasn't an option until now. We also weren't saying start all the kids, before you break out that straw man argument. We said give them a chance, bring them on as subs instead of the likes of Schneiderlin or Lennon.

So, in case you didn't notice, when Rooney came on and played in that deep role, Sigurdsson was able to get on the ball more and Rooney was further up field, allowing him to play that ball into the box that led to the goal. Something neither McCarthy or Schneiderlin ever do.

John Keating
122 Posted 21/01/2018 at 20:31:44
Dave, when the team was announced before the match I can't recall anyone in the ale house having anything really negative to say.

Yes it was Vlasic, someone wanted Lookman. Rooney in place of Schneiderlin. But all in all there wasn't really that much in it.

In the ale house after the game then it was a bit like on here. Why play Vlasic, he was shite, Why not start Rooney in place of Schneiderlin. Keane should have started, Jags should have started on and on and on.

Hindsight is great.

But my point is, no matter who plays, we are a poor mid-table team and all this shit about finishing 7th nonsense. Sticking with Koeman, sticking with Unsworth they still had the same dross to work with

This season survival and hopefully next another best of the rest finish. We're too far behind the big boys to challenge for a long time.

Andy Crooks
123 Posted 21/01/2018 at 20:38:17
"For now, Allardyce is as good as we can attract..."

Jay, I have always seen you as a voice of reason, so I hope that was an out-of-character howler.

We are paying enough money to get better than Allardyce and he is so utterly bereft of talent that I believe that there are many better coaches out there. He will grind us horribly to safety and then he must go.

If we we are stuck for a better interim replacement I am happy to lend the club my cat. It was a toss up between Toulouse or bringing back Martinez. The cat edges it.

David Barks
124 Posted 21/01/2018 at 20:38:36
No John, there are players of quality. This manager is completely incapable of getting or allowing a team to play attacking football, attacking the opposition as opposed to worrying about what the opposition is going to do to us. Everything is about defend first, worry about them instead of causing them to worry about us.

That’s why he selects the midfield that he does, it’s a six man defensive line with no bridge to the attacking players. Bring in a manager who thinks positively and has the players thinking about what they are going to do instead of being overwhelmed with the thought of what they need to defend against and these players can perform much better.

Andy Meighan
125 Posted 21/01/2018 at 20:41:43
Chris (#108),

"Smith once fielded a team with seven right backs." Could you please tell me what game that was and who were the said players?

Because, believe me, I've been watching Everton nigh on 50 years and used to go nearly every away game, even under Smith's reign, and I certainly can't remember him doing that!!!

Nicholas Ryan
126 Posted 21/01/2018 at 20:48:56
If by noon tomorrow, Everton have sacked Allardyce and replaced him with Marco Silva, I will continue to watch them; if not, I'm off to Tranmere!
Eddie Dunn
127 Posted 21/01/2018 at 20:49:16
I saw a picture of Steve Walsh yesterday with Gazza, and they were at the King Power watching Leicester v Watford.


David Barks
128 Posted 21/01/2018 at 20:58:43
And for this argument that it’s not Sam’s fault because these aren’t his players. What world do you live in where a manager is hired and is only judged once they replace the entire team? It doesn’t work like that, anywhere.

Conte comes to Chelsea, he didn’t replace the entire team. He won the league, first season. Same players that were demoralized by the overly negative tactics of Mourinho were suddenly rejuvenated and adapted to a completely new system. He managed them, trained them, worked with them.

There is absolutely nothing in Allardyce’s past that makes me want to allow him to sign a team of new players. He’s complaining about how big the squad is, while refusing to use a host of players and continuing with many who have performed so poorly for so long. His reaction to weeks of horrific attacking play is to say we need to be more boring. Imagine working for a person like that? Hardly a motivating factor, which was Koeman’s biggest flaw. He didn’t inspire, and neither does Allardyce.

Steve Hopkins
129 Posted 21/01/2018 at 20:59:29
I heard that Watford were torn between blaming the voodoo or Everton but decided on the less embarrassing option.
Amit Vithlani
131 Posted 21/01/2018 at 21:09:09
Laughable that the nutters at Watford blame us for their woe. Well boo-bloody-hoo. The Pozzos should put on their big boy pants and consider that they are a small fish in the food chain.

We ourselves have had our best players (and also a manager) picked up by the Sky 6. Just the law of the jungle.

Silva is not good enough to manage a big club. He would not be an upgrade on Allardyce, as I cannot see him being capable of sorting out the colossal shit-soup which is our squad that Messrs Moshiri, Kenwright and Walsh have cooked up.

Those defending Sam, total shots on target are in the single digits across the last 7 games. West Brom, who have been totally woeful away from home, had more efforts than we did and should have beaten us.

Whether these are his players or not, it is simply not acceptable on any level for him to be overseeing such lamentable performances.

Andrew Keatley
132 Posted 21/01/2018 at 21:20:33
I don't fully understand the logic of not wanting someone to manage our club because the club they currently manage is below us in the league. Football is not an individual sport; some managers – and players – are able to thrive as the climb the pyramid.

Why would Spurs want Pochettino when he was at Southampton? Because they identified that he had potential to climb the pyramid successfully.

Players and managers have to start somewhere, and Marco Silva is only 40 years old. I'm not saying he'd be a great fit for us, or that he will become a great manager over time, but dismissing him because he only manages Watford at this point in his career doesn't seem to be the right protocol for discounting him either.

Peter Jansson
133 Posted 21/01/2018 at 21:21:32
The starting lineup was not even close to what we wanted. We definitely did not want Schneiderlin in the team. Not even on the bench.

We definitely did not want 2 defensive central midfielders in the team at home to West Brom.

I wanted Rooney and Gana in the center. Lookman out left, Walcott on the right, Sigurdsson in the centre and Tosun up front. I also would have wanted to try to give Klaassen and Sandro some game time and of course Niasse.

In the back four, I would have gone for Jagielka and Williams in the middle, Kenny right and Holgate left (or opposite Kenny left). Then we could have scored more than 1 goal.

Tony Hill
134 Posted 21/01/2018 at 21:22:40
Can't wait for our new coach, he'll get all the right players in the right places and then it will be great. Just you wait and see. He'll probably get them to pass to each other and to run about a bit. Shows how shit this Negative Fat Fraud is that he's never thought about any of that.
Ray Jacques
135 Posted 21/01/2018 at 21:23:07
My missus would prefer Silva to Sam. Don't think it's anything to do with football however.

I would make a cheeky bid for the French lad in Watford midfield, Doucoure but they will probably tell us to politely go away.

Eric Paul
136 Posted 21/01/2018 at 21:24:05
Good job you weren’t in charge of replacing Gordon Lee.
Chris Corn
137 Posted 21/01/2018 at 21:25:49
John Keating, for what it's worth mate, I agree with you. Allardyce is on a hiding to nothing with many on here.

You're wasting your time. As long as we sack him now and move on to the next 'big thing,' who implodes after 6 to 12 months, then that's all that matters.

John Keating
138 Posted 21/01/2018 at 21:32:49
David (#123) The players have quality ? Is that a joke ? Not from where I sit they don't.

You are blaming Allardyce for the weekly shit we watch, where you also blaming Unsworth, Koeman and Martinez?

The rot set in years ago – we didn't replace players at the right times due to an apparent lack of money for Moyes. Good players' ages have finally caught up with them and rubbish buys have contributed to a sub standard core of senior pros at the Club.

We are now forced to throw in youngsters who though trying their utmost are having a hard time of it. Rather than support them too many are quick to criticise them.

Sorry, David, blaming Allardyce for all our woes is an easy cop out. When a professional player can't make a 5-yard pass then drop him for another who can but when the replacement can't do it either then we really have a problem. No manager tells any player not to make a pass, even Allardyce.

David Barks
139 Posted 21/01/2018 at 21:41:43

Nobody is available for a 5 yard pass because they're all maintaining their defensive positions! Christ man, the tactics and training of a manager do have an impact. Otherwise, what does a manager do? If Allardyce is not to blame, what is he doing for 6 million?

Yeah, the players have quality. Klaassen has quality, very good Ajax captain who scored loads of goals and is still young. To captain a side like Ajax at his age, yes he has quality. Sandro, very good goal score in Spain and coming through Barcelona's system.

Yes, he has quality. Sigurdsson, fantastic player leading Iceland to unknown success. Keane, was a phenomenal defender at his previous club, just last season.

So if we don't have quality players, then what the hell would you say about the West Brom team that played us off the pitch?

Raymond Fox
140 Posted 21/01/2018 at 21:52:34
So if our play is down to Sam's so called negative tactics, who has got any attacking flair out of our squad these last two seasons? We had Lukaku to knock the ball up to last season, don't forget.

Have we any defender that can play it out from the back? Have we a midfielder that can find passes that forwards can run onto, please enlighten me who?

Maybe Sam watches these lot in practice and thinks "How the hell are we going to win games trying to play the ball from back to the front?"

The facts are we sold Lukaku and others for in the region of £120+m, bought players in the summer and ended up with a worse team than we had.

Now we have just bought Tosun and Walcott, Bolasie back and Coleman is almost ready to play after serious injuriy – they will presumably improve us. By how much remains to be seen because we don't have that top quality midfielder that we need more than anything else.

Martin Nicholls
141 Posted 21/01/2018 at 21:54:19
A question to all those above who defend Allardyce – who if anyone in our squad has improved since he joined?
Chris Corn
142 Posted 21/01/2018 at 21:55:26
David Barks, sorry but you are showing yourself up as clueless. Elite level players who cannot execute a five yard pass and cannot keep the ball and that is due to the tactical shortcomings of the manager? Really?! It is down to a lack of ability and has been a trait of our club for a long time.

Sigurdsson is not a fantastic player. He is an average mid-low level premier league player who we wasted too much time and money chasing when we had Rooney and Klaassen already signed. Lookman has ability but playing him wide left with Martina will see real problems as he is not defensively minded. Let's be honest, they were as bad under Koeman as they are now.

You are living in a fantasy dream world pal. We are chocful of mediocrity. The joke is we've spent £250m constructing this squad, so the real problems lie up top with Moshiri and Co.

Brian Williams
143 Posted 21/01/2018 at 21:57:18
Dynamo the magician couldn't improve that shower!
Albert Egan
144 Posted 21/01/2018 at 21:59:55
Despite being a woeful season, Everton could have inadvertently saved themselves from relegation by its antics off the field.

Upsetting Silva and potentially relegating Watford, while also taking Swansea's most creative threat away from them and denying any number of relegation candidates the chance of hiring Big Sam.

It won't be positive results that keeps us up, but rather that we have left at least 3 teams in worse off conditions.

Well done, Everton, ironic really.

John Keating
145 Posted 21/01/2018 at 22:03:51
David the West Brom team have players who are equally if not better than our numb-nuts.

How many of our players would have got in the West Brom team yesterday? Their defence is better than ours. Barry in midfield still class; forward wise they put us to shame.

If you were there yesterday, you would have seen they were better than us all over the pitch with and without the ball.

If Klaassen and Sandro are so good, why weren't they regulars under the last THREE managers?

As I said, blaming Allardyce for the incompetence of players is an easy cop out.

David Barks
146 Posted 21/01/2018 at 22:06:41

Sorry “pal”, not clueless. Watch the match, no players are within 20 yards of each other. They are all spread out, massive space in between. Players are staying in certain spaces, no doubt being told to “maintain their shape”.

It's part of what Allardyce openly said, making us more boring. Don't get forward in numbers to support the attack. Make sure you are in position to provide defensive support. Watch the match, you'll see the ball played out wide and not another player within shouting distance.

It's mathematics and percentages. When an object is set off in an incorrect trajectory, the longer the distance the further from the target it will arrive. When you watch Man City and there are 3 players within five yards of each other, not only are they providing multiple options and not allowing the defense to converge on one spot, but they are also ensuring that a slightly misplaced pass will still be mostly on target.

Walcott got the ball out wide, nobody is near him. Vlasic gets the ball out wide, nobody is near him. McCarthy and Schneiderlin both both sitting central and deep, a single striker in the middle. No full back up in support and offering for quick and short one-twos. That's how we're set up, every match.

Sam Hoare
147 Posted 21/01/2018 at 22:13:26
However good or bad the players are then the job of the manager is to get them playing in a system that gets the best out of them both collectively and individually. Think it’s fair to say that none of three men managing them this year have achieved that.
Andy Crooks
148 Posted 21/01/2018 at 22:19:31
Chris, you seem to think these are pub players. We have capable players who seem demotivated and bereft of confidence. Who is to blame for that? If it is not the hapless Allardyce then who is it? How long will you give him before you doubt?

There has been not the tiniest glimmer of improvement or the most remote sign that there is a new rejuvenated Allardyce. If there was an inkling, the slightest inkling of better to come, I would not be posting this.

I have seen bad at Everton but this vastly paid, one dimensional fraudster stinks the place out.

Chris Corn
149 Posted 21/01/2018 at 22:19:43
Whatever you say, David. You keep quoting Chelsea, Man City etc. We are nowhere near their level of ability. Everton players give the ball away cheaply week after week and have done for years. It's the level of player we operate in unfortunately. You operate in a fantasy FIFA world. We have a collection of mediocre to poor players.

Let's get this right, I am not an Allardyce advocate by any stretch. I just don't want us sacking managers willy-nilly. My point is as I've maintained throughout my posts is that Silva is no better at this point in time and also that we have produced some poor negative football as bad as, if not worse, in recent history. As I said before, if you disagree you are kidding yourself.

Jackie Barry
150 Posted 21/01/2018 at 22:24:01
So we have just spent £200 million, does anyone care to guess what that amounts to over the years compared to the top 5 or 6? My guess is that we are nowhere near, right?
Chris Corn
151 Posted 21/01/2018 at 22:27:02
Andy, let's agree to disagree. Refer to my other posts. You don't like Allardyce as many don't. I'm indifferent. Never wanted him but never wanted Silva.

I agree with John Keating in that we have an expensively assembled squad of players who give the ball away all over the place but they are exempt from blame, because really they are hiding all that ability until Diego Simeone comes in and saves the day.

They will then all become free scoring slick, quick , pass and move merchants.... Do me a favour !!

Neil Quinn
152 Posted 21/01/2018 at 22:39:19
I was surprised to wake up to this news. Especially as recently as Friday, I was "reliably informed" by a red mate (who is actually quite well connected to a lot of ex-pros & a couple of agents) that Allardyce is definitely gone at the end of the season & a deal has already been done with Silva. Maybe Drew at post 44 has something.

Do I want Silva? I'm not sure. I was against the Allardyce appointment but I don't get all the fuss about Silva either. I accept that he's taken on two jobs that carry less expectancy with teams you'd expect to finish below us, but all the same...

Andrew Wayne
153 Posted 21/01/2018 at 22:54:08
Jackie (#150),


Michael Lynch
154 Posted 21/01/2018 at 22:54:45
Neil, it sounds like bollocks to me, but if for once a "mate of a mate" rumour turns out to be true, I'm not too arsed either way. Because if it is true, then Silva probably has about 10 games to get us firing or he's out as well.

That's the footballing model now outside the top 6 – you have half a season to show what you can do, then goodbye. Still, it's Moshiri's money – if he wants to pay off managers at £6M a pop twice a season or so, then it's up to him.

So, who do we reckon should come after Silva, just before Christmas probably? I reckon Arteta should be about ready, then after he's been given the boot how about that one from Wolves that we were linked with? He'll probably have promoted them by then, so should be getting loads of flavour of the month publicity.

I hope Unsie's not planning on going anywhere, he'll be getting a few games in charge as well in between managers.

Paul Hewitt
155 Posted 21/01/2018 at 22:54:46
Silva is shit. I don't want him anywhere near us.
David Israel
156 Posted 21/01/2018 at 22:58:29
I read today that Silva has been previously sacked somewhere for not wearing the club's suit. At least Watford have used a better excuse.
Neil Copeland
157 Posted 21/01/2018 at 23:02:26
Nicholas (#126), looks like Prenton Park from tomorrow then...
Neil Copeland
158 Posted 21/01/2018 at 23:05:01
Very classy of Watford, not even thanking Silva for his efforts or wishing him well. What a bunch of bell ends.
Andy Williams
159 Posted 21/01/2018 at 23:06:42
David Barks, I totally agree with you. I had two arguments with whingers in front of me yesterday – one who was getting on Tosun's back after 10 minutes. These players don't turn to crap over night. Half of the team were captains or the best players in their previous clubs.

The lack of movement and players providing options for their team mates is shocking. The distribution out of defence was shocking yesterday but mainly because there was a total lack of options. When the ball did eventually get up field the problem was exactly the same.

At one point, Tosun played a ball out right into space – nobody was there, sighs of frustration rang out. But somebody should have been there. He was playing instinctively – something that our players seem to have had coached out of them consistently since Martinez and something that Man City seem to thrive on.

Neil Copeland
160 Posted 21/01/2018 at 23:11:41
Andy (#159), I saw that pass from Tosun and thought the same. There were similar groans from supporters around me.

One supporter behind me was lambasting Walcott, I told him to get a grip as did a few others.

Chris Corn
161 Posted 21/01/2018 at 23:15:06
Well, Andy, if it's been happening since the Martinez era, then it backs my point up. Poor play is not exclusive to Allardyce is it? I get your point about playing a pass into space expecting a runner but passing to an opposition player from a few yards is totally different.
David Israel
162 Posted 21/01/2018 at 23:16:16
If we're really going to change managers, yet again, at the end of the season – which I honestly don't think will happen – then, instead of Silva, we should look at his fellow countryman Fonseca, of Shakhtar Donetsk, who was also mentioned as a possible successor to Koeman.
Jay Harris
163 Posted 21/01/2018 at 23:18:58

I was talking about not knee-jerking and sacking him now. I was not suggesting we keep him for the future.

I would love to think we could get someone of the calibre of Tuchel, Ancellotti or Simeone on the basis they would be competing with Guardiola, Mourhino etc but I doubt whether that will happen.

I just don't see anything in Silva's pedigree that makes him the right man.

Brian Williams
164 Posted 21/01/2018 at 23:19:47
Does the manager really have to tell a player to run in a forward direction and pass the ball to a team mate in front of him, a player who the manager has told to make himself available for that pass?

Does he fuck.

That's basics and if a manager needs to tell a player how to do that then somethings terribly wrong with the player!

Nigel Munford
165 Posted 21/01/2018 at 23:20:08
Brian @ 143 agree and I’ve said it numerous times I don’t believe there’s a manager alive (or dead for that matter) that could galvanise this shower.
Jay Harris
166 Posted 21/01/2018 at 23:24:05
David, would you care to give some examples of players who were busy defending at the managers instruction instead of being available for a pass because from where I sit most of their chances came from breakaways when the defence was hopeless.

If you watch the bench you will see big and little Sam urging them forward just like Koeman used to do.

I think John Keating makes a great point about some of the players aging now and the replacements are dire.

Personally at the end of the season I would clear the whole entourage out especially the benevolently called Director of Football and bring a manager in who runs the show from top to bottom and take Billy Boy off any active duty.

Lawrence Green
167 Posted 21/01/2018 at 23:29:33
39,061 people inside Goodison Park and some posters want every single one of them to react exactly the same way and to see the game as they do – it ain't going to happen.

Attending fans get castigated for the silence and if they do have an outburst of emotion which doesn't conform to whatever an individual poster wants from them, they get down the banks for that too. I am usually so caught up in the 'action' of the game that I'm immune to what other people are shouting or indeed unaware on occasion of what comes out of my mouth.

If a person is shouting abuse at a player, then I would expect that person to be rebuked by those around them. If a person is only showing frustration at what they believe is poor play, they should surely be allowed the freedom to react accordingly?

Jack Convery
168 Posted 21/01/2018 at 23:53:18
No Silva since 1995; could 2018-19 season be the one when Moshiri's money actually brings Silva to Goodison once more?

I hope Walsh was checking out Vardy and Chilwell, though Dacoure of Watford would appear to be more likely as I can't see Schneiderlin or Besic staying beyond the summer.

So that's another weekend of footie wasted for us Evertonians – where will it all end, I wonder?

David Barks
169 Posted 21/01/2018 at 00:08:17

Sure... passage of play starting at the 9:30 mark of the game. Ball played out to Vlasic on the left, he looks up and sees a striker covered by the defenders and Martina is too far behind him to get into the play in time. He cuts inside to try to get space. Meanwhile, Schneiderlin is jogging toward the centre circle and McCarthy is a bit further forward, just outside the centre circle, about 10 yards from Schneiderlin. Neither player running forward to provide an option for Vlasic in the middle or for any of the West Brom defenders to have to take notice of. In the end, the 7-8 defenders are easily able to deal with the four Everton players up field and Vlasic's pass is intercepted.

About the 20 minute mark, Williams has the ball in our own half on the left. Martina isn't moving, standing by the touch line. Schneiderlin is holding his spot 15 yards away from him, further behind. McCarthy is standing still in the center circle. Williams is urged on by the crowd to move forward so he does. McCarthy doesn't move, while Tosun runs from the furthest forward to try to provide an option but the pass is easily cut out. Players staying in certain areas, looking over their shoulders for where the West Brom player is while we are in possession.

22-minute mark. Actually somewhat decent at first. Williams plans out wide to Kenny at the halfway line in space. He moves forward. Plays it off to Walcott, but there is not another Everton player within 40 yards of Kenny or Walcott. Not exaggerating, there are two West Brom players standing with nobody to defend. McCarthy slowly jogs forward but stops just past the halfway line. Schneiderlin not in the picture, holding his spot by the center circle.

Kenny comes back for the ball and Walcott plays it to him and overlaps, but McCarthy is still 15 yards from Kenny, who is receiving the pass going the wrong way. McCarthy actually moves forward but Kenny makes a mess of his touch while McCarthy is covered and another West Brom defender is standing in space ready to tackle McCarthy if the ball had been played. Kenny has to play it back to Schneiderlin by the centre circle. He moves forward for a few yards but then passes sideways to McCarthy, who is immediately challenged. Schneiderlin quickly runs back toward the centre circle. 9 West Brom defenders behind the ball, so nothing for him to be guarding back there. McCarthy dribbles sideways and plays it out wide to Martina. Martina has to play it backward to McCarthy, who wouldn't overlap. Meanwhile Schneiderlin continues to hug the center circle. Ends with a cross sent into the keeper's hands.

Pete Clarke
170 Posted 22/01/2018 at 01:19:50
We have some very recognisable names on our team sheet (or so we think). Players like Jagielka, Williams, Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Lennon, Rooney, Mirallas, Keane and a few others yet we struggle to play any football at all, cannot do the basics of passing and control and even though we play with a defensive set up, struggle to keep the opposition out no matter who they are.

This could be that the players are all done. A complete and utter clean out out required or that we have this small minded mentality at Management level that survival is the best we can do.

My feeling is that if you put the Bournemouth or Watford team in Everton shirts with Allardyce in charge then we would be doomed already. I could be wrong of course and there is one glaring problem we have and that is a decent central midfielder who can control the game. A 37-year-old Gareth Barry quietly went about his business on Saturday whilst surrounded by average team mates and run the game.

How can our last two managers not address this issue whilst sticking with a very average defence only minded Schneiderlin. The mentality of the managers tactics should be addressed before he comes to the club but we seem to get dud after dud.

Bill Watson
171 Posted 22/01/2018 at 02:03:00
More or less the same squad have under-performed under three managers and some of them under four.

It seems to me that the major problem is the players and the man responsible for signing some of them.

Tony Everan
172 Posted 22/01/2018 at 07:22:11
I expected a much better performance against Spurs. Where was the fight, game plan, organisation?

I expected miles better against West Brom. They were marginally better than us, on our own patch too.

I didn't want Sam and in the first TW poll – 80% didn't. But that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve his chance to prove himself. At the moment he is doing nothing of the sort. No Improvement made.

I would rather have Silva given the choice, he may not be the answer but it would give me some hope.

At the moment all hope has been crushed. If Vardy and Mahrez take us apart next week, the landscape will change again.

Trevor Peers
173 Posted 22/01/2018 at 10:15:19
Lot's of negativity about the manager, I wonder if it transfers into the dressing room and affects the way we play, which is totally without any belief or confidence. Allardyce put an attacking team out, but we never attacked. The players look terrified.

Since joining TW we've had four managers and I've never seen a united forum, there is always a huge divide in opinion that we have the right man at the helm, little wonder we never seem to make any progress. Until we unite behind a manager we will continue to produce dross.

Ray Jacques
175 Posted 22/01/2018 at 10:36:31
The players are not good enough. I don't know their mental state but technically they are substandard. The ability to trap a ball, beat the first man from a corner or free kick, shoot accurately or make a pass to a team mate is not the result of bad management.

Tactics, systems and motivation is the responsibility of the manager but the requirement for our players to perform basic expectations of a top level professional footballer lies with the individual players. Can they not speak to each other on the pitch and organise/engineer situations for the team as the game progresses and attacks are built?? It would appear not as they are all frightened of responsibility on the pitch and hide behind each other and the manager.

You can sense this in the interviews Allardyce gives after the games and pick up his frustration.

Dale Rose
176 Posted 22/01/2018 at 11:53:55
We have to have some consistency here. Unlike some of the doom and gloom merchants on here, I don't think we will be anywhere near a relegation fight.

I wasn't keen on big Sam, but he is trying and does have a track record. The team at the moment just seem to be lacking in confidence. I don't think there is anyone who could realistically do any better.

Silva is not at the moment a great manager. That may or may not come. Watford are trying their hand with these garbage comments.

Just keep the faith – things will get better.

James Ebden
177 Posted 22/01/2018 at 12:16:25
Can't understand the shouts for Silva. He got a team relegated (after being in a position of safety and then capitulating horribly in the last few games).

He started well at Watford, but appears to have "downed tools" after having his head turned. That to me is not the sort of character we want anywhere near our club. We have enough work shy mercenaries as it is, without the manager being one of them.

Coutinho didn't down tools, he got back on the pitch and started playing his best football again, as did Van Dijk. For the money these people are paid, you should expect professionalism and 100% commitment.

Michael Kenrick
178 Posted 22/01/2018 at 15:33:41
Andrew (#153),

I know I can be a bit of a pedant, but I'd worry about "alternative facts" on that Transfer League website...

Their Everton page has us selling Cenk Tosun for £27M. That might skew the numbers somewhat...

Stan Schofield
179 Posted 22/01/2018 at 16:05:52
Trevor@173: You think we have that much influence? I suspect that whether we produce dross or not is pretty much independent of how much we on TW back the manager.
Winston Williamson
180 Posted 22/01/2018 at 16:56:28
The manager is just not good enough. It's plainly obvious. Koeman wasn't good enough either. Neither, unfortunately, was Unsworth (although, the lack of authority and the circumstances of his temp-unofficial-appointment didn't help).

Some (but not all) of the players are not good enough. This is due to age and ability level.

The Board have not operated at a highly organized level.

We're rotten throughout – although, I wouldn't say we're rotten to the absolute core.

Trying to justify Allardyce as better than Koeman or Unsworth (or even the correct fit for EFC) is like trying to say which is the better of the two mangled-rotten-worm-ridden apples in the fruit basket!

We deserve better than Allardyce, Koeman etc...

John Daley
181 Posted 22/01/2018 at 17:28:03
"...which is the better of the two mangled-rotten-worm-ridden apples in the fruit basket!"

The mention of worms reminded me of something I read the other day.

Allardyce, Unsworth and Craig Shakespeare apparently would, but Silva wouldn't:


Denver Daniels
182 Posted 22/01/2018 at 21:27:00
So Watford announced a new coach hours after sacking Silva. Yet we took so long to replace Koeman that we ultimately were forced into hiring Allardyce.

We will never progress as a club if things at the top don't change.

Moshiri needs to hire a proper football person to run things, like a David Dein type, and get rid of Kenwright, Elstone and Steve "I like free trips to Italy" Walsh.

And then we can get a proper manager in. Preferrably Tuchel or Nagelsmann.

George Stuart
183 Posted 22/01/2018 at 00:07:36
So, I'm on record as hating Sam, though I'm currently in the "give him a chance" brigade. However, I don't know all that much about him. Is there really that much to be gained studying a turd?

Notwithstanding that, does the man traditionally blame his players? (Not a good strategy IMHO).

Gylfi Sigurdsson and Wayne Rooney cannot play together and something about "my players didn't want to play" the other week. Deflecting blame works for a while in politics but not in business. So is it his style ?

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