Zonal Marking

I think we all understand that it is the player that fails rather than the system if he stands and watches his man head the ball into the net but it's still enlightening to see this stuff written down in print.

We didn't do zonal marking last year and we were woeful at the back. Surprising that it's taking this long though. Yes, we have injuries but some of the goals we've conceded have been down to the defender losing his personal duel. A lack of aggression or belief?

A very detailed, precise explanation of zonal marking as opposed to the several cluttered, unclear, emotional attempts that have been posted.

Thanks for your ongoing tactical analysis, Steve. Brilliant reading.

If defenders concentrate and attack the ball effectively, it doesn't matter what you call the system, we'll just concede less goals.

It doesn't really change my belief that zonal marking hasn't worked for many teams in recent years and I believe it will cost us even more goals in the coming games.

Kendall used zonal marking very effectively in the 80s.

Capt Rat quote:

"You have to be touch-tight all the time and as people move about, your starting position has to naturally change because you don't want people to get a run on you. We had men who understood the system inside out."

That would seem to back up your argument.

The problem with man-marking is that so many defenders are so attentive on the man that they forget about the ball. A prime example was Shawcross of Stoke who was often highlighted wrestling with his man with his back to the ball. You can see this every week on MotD. It's the ball that matters, go get it!!!

For me, a lot of the marking systems – man-to-man or zonal – develop as players move up through the ranks of football, and the player may or may not gel immediately or feel comfy with zonal or man-to-man marking.

Everton's defence has been lax at set-peices for years; in my view, the days of the mid-80s was the last time we had a solid defence and, with retirement of Waggy Waston, our last great centre-back (Distin wasn't too bad either). Since then, we've been mediocre, year on year.

Silva's style will take time and the whole team must take ownership at set plays. Marco will find a successful method for our team – I'm convinced he will.

nb: Steve, did you get a song scoped for Richarlison?

One of the most disconcerting things about the modern game is that so much can be written and discussed about it. It is essentially a simple game, and it used to be played by people who loved it, so they would gladly put their bodies on the line to score a goal or stop one. They, we (at whatever level we played), would treat conceding a goal as a dagger to the heart.

I wonder whether that passion still exists in many players, and whether complicated instructions either confuse them or provide an excuse for going missing? In one of those clips provided by the Watford supporter in his article, the Watford player rubbing his head as Shawcross lurks behind him prior to a corner looks totally unconvincing!

Which is all we ever need or want.

Sort it Marco.

Honestly sounds as if the Spurs system seems to tap into the best of both worlds.

Whichever system we adopt, we simply have to avoid the situation where opposition players appear to have the freedom of the box.

"Everton are executing it very badly. Silva needs to up his game here. If he wants to persist with this system, then he needs to make it work and fast."

So badly are we executing it, that, as many on the previous thread predicted, the opposition would begin actively target us at set-pieces. Guess what Huddersfield's coach admitted to after the game?

You have made a good and educated defence of Zonal marking and tried to outline how you would do it better – by ensuring that players are spread over the zones and then adapt depending on where the danger is.

But, I would hope that Silva is going to try and at least using some form of man-to-man to try and alleviate the current issues. I would hope that we stop seeing goals conceded to the centre-forward of an opposition (like Ings), or their tallest player (Billing), or one of their Centre Halves (the Rotherham chap, and Bournemouth's CB, Ake).

Man-marking at least two of the opposition danger men at a set piece - whilst employing a zonal system for the rest - surely can't be a bad tactic whilst our defence settles into Silva's way of defending.

It may also introduce something into our defensive psyche that we are missing – concentration and responsibility. It is telling how the players have looked round at each other after conceding every set piece goal. Different reaction when a player was supposed to be marking a man and lets him slip – head in the hands time.

I would not persist with a full-on Zonal system (or, at any rate, Silva's version of it) for any more games. I would try and ensure the opposition's most dangerous threats were marked and then cover the rest in the most efficient manner you describe. It will, surely, reduce the threat we are currently experiencing.

Meanwhile, the other Achilles heel – crossed balls from open play – has been a long-standing issue of ours. That, too, needs work from Silva and his coaching team.

I think Baines is one of the best value buys in the history of the Premier League. I could never work out why, even when he had time to get tighter, he stood off and allowed room for the cross.

As someone who has obviously followed and admires Silva, I think you stating it is doubtful he will change his approach to zonal marking is quite disturbing.

As he brings everyone back for set-piece defending, then everyone should have a job to do.

The fact that after weeks since players returned to preseason training and we are still seeing the same errors is quite unbelievable.

I have asked this before but how long should it take to get across to his players how he wants them to mark up?

Silva needs a good look at himself, to be honest.

The stats would be interesting to see how many crosses he stops from his position versus how many go past him into the box.

Quite a few defenders throughout the Premier League adapt this arms behind their backs and static.

Call me old-fashioned, but I would prefer a player to attack the ball, throw his body in the way, something Jagielka was very good at.

You hire a manager to manage the side. If you have Mourinho, you'll know what Mourinho does. You can't then complain he doesn't play open possession-based football. If we hired Guardiola and we started getting pumped playing his style, we couldn't grumble and request that he parks the bus.

Managers are hired and styles are known. You allow them to work within that gambit.

As I stated I prefer man-to-man. Not because it's better, it's what I grew up with, and what you all grew up with and so everyone knows what to do and there's little coaching needed. Just a few tips and adjustments here and there.

We can't demand, and the board can't demand that Silva abandon a fundamental principle of his.

Silva won't fail at Everton. He can't fail. If Silva does badly and gets sacked, we'll that's the end of his career. Sure he could get a job in Portugal and work his way back up there, but he'd have to do something special to get himself into one of the big 5 leagues.

Silva knows this too. That's why there's a thread where he's saying he wants to build something here. He's a talented and ambitious manager. He sees himself winning the Champions League. Whether Everton is seen as a stepping stone to that or he thinks he can do it with us has to be seen.

So why would he allow zonal marking to be the thing that brings him down? He's not Martinez. He won't fiddle like Nero as the empire burns. He will work harder and harder and harder until he fixes it. This will be by watching tape, making adjustments on paper, and then fixing it on the training pitch.

Martinez didn't bother with set pieces. Only gets you or costs you 3% of the time so he wasn't bothered. He didn't say which type of marking to use, he let them do man-to-man because he didn't train at it.

Silva is working hard. He needs his Yerry Mina. Things will change once Mina is in. Silva can not afford to fail here and he will get it right.

Then we have the fact that the lineup has had to be chopped and changed due to suspensions and injuries. Jagielka suspended after being sent off in the opener. That also meant we were defending with 10 men, shouldn't be overlooked. So now, instead of Keane and Jagielka, it's Keane and Holgate, with Holgate missing almost the entirety of preseason due to injury. So his time training was severely impacted, which Silva spoke about prior to the season kicking off.

Then Keane goes down injured, bringing Zouma into the side, who again has only been with us a couple of weeks. Also, Schneiderlin has gone down, reducing our size in the box further. So we have our third central defensive partnership to start the season, and we also had to again play the majority of the game with 10 men, which obviously impacts the defending of set-pieces.

So, as we analyze how things are going, nobody has their heads stuck in the ground ignoring that the defending at those set-piece was poor. Silva said so. But things have adjusted. When Pickford and the defense just let Ings stand unmarked in front of the keeper, that was not the system working correctly. Pickford should have been telling his defenders to adjust. Since then, he has obviously been told this and has been more vocal and directing the defensive set up more.

The other issue was that players were standing and waiting for the ball. That's not how it's supposed to be, man or zonal. You should attack the ball, the zonal aspect is simply to put men in positions to attack the ball. Far too often, certain players have been guilty of being passive and not attacking the ball, Baines for one for Bournemouth's second goal. These concentration and passivity issues would exist no matter the system, and indeed have existed for the goals we've conceded from open play or penalties conceded.

I'll be waiting to see how we're doing come January, with half a season behind us and hopefully with a settled side and not having to continue to play half our games with 10 men. But, if everyone wants to say it's zonal marking, that's the issue, I'd ask what system our opponents have been using while we have scored multiple goals from set pieces ourselves and Keane was getting clean headers on goal before going down injured.

I said Silva should have a look at himself as, so far, he has rigidly stuck to his interpretation of zonal marking. If as you yourself say, he will not change, then something has to give.

In my opinion, if a bunch of professional footballers, can't understand what Silva is trying to get across then we have a real problem. There has to be some sort of flexibility in his approach to his zonal system, as, if what we presently see is his final plan then we're in for a long season.

If the present bunch haven't got what he's after because they haven't had enough time then, in my opinion, that's shocking. Does it mean if someone gets injured or due to tactics he changes a player we have to retrain the system? Surely everyone in the squad should be schooled so that someone coming in seamlessly fits in.

Silva has to be given time, I think most of us agree with that. It is already noticeable that attacking wise there has been improvement but it's also noticeable that defensively we are still poor.

If we who actually go to the game can see our defensive frailties – and literally every pundit agrees – when will Silva react?

Those same pundits were screaming that Pep was a failure after his first season and that his style would never work in England. They lambasted him for persisting with playing it out from the back and being so focused on a keeper with good distribution. They also have gone on for years saying Klopp can't sort a defense out.

Cut to this season and Pep's team just dominated the Premier League in a fashion that hasn't been seen in England for many decades and now Liverpool are seen as the only club to be able to challenge City. Pep had a full year to sort it out and build his squad. Klopp has had a few years.

Our defending from set pieces started falling apart when Roberto took over. Successive managers have failed to correct the problem. We were well drilled pre-Martinez; I am hoping that Hi-Ho can get us solid again.

If the template is at least a season, as per Guardiola, or a few seasons as per Klopp, then that being the case, as I mentioned, we look to be in for a long old season – at least.

If Silva can achieve the same by creating a ball-retaining and incisive side, he too may buy enough time to implement his defensive strategy. If he doesn't and we continue to leak goals, we will be punished and points will continue to be lost.

The implications of a failing zonal marking system are less severe if you can score three or four most games. Certainly not the approach Allardyce would adopt!

Silva went and signed, just like I predicted, two tall centre halves over 6'-3" (Mina is 6'-5" and Zouma is 6'-3") and swerve the much smaller guys you were all suggesting. Clearly the reason for this was he needs a couple of big guys to make his brand of zonal marking work.

"Don't mark space, mark players, space doesn't score goals, players do."

Not sure where it came from, possibly Brian Clough?

Picture the scene at the moment a free kick is taken and half-a-dozen attackers rapidly interchange positions. It becomes impossible for defenders to 'stick to their man' while at the same time keeping an eye on the ball.

Also, there is the increasingly common practice of the attacking team shielding its main striker from such contact.

I think you will find it did NOT work at Hull. There may have well been no complaints from supporters but the stats do show Hull were more susceptible to set pieces than the average team...

Personally I don't care what system Silva uses or doesn't. I just want him to employ a system that does not give cheap goals away, especially if those goals have a common denominator.

I appreciate you set your stall out long ago with regards to Silva, and quite rightly he deserves praise when we see improvements; however, that should not give him a free pass when we see no improvements in other areas.

Nobody expects Silva to transform the trainwreck he inherited in a few months. You, yourself said at the beginning we would see changes straight away; going forward, I think we have, but defensively we, or should I say I, and other supporters I speak to, see nothing.

Personally, I would have expected to see some improvement – even in the short time Silva has been here.

I wonder if Howards, Jagielka, Distin, (Moyes?) told him that if he couldn't get right on the opponent, to get out of the way so they could get a clear view of the ball's path.

I can see he would get skinned these last few seasons if he pressed up. But he was plenty fast and quick-footed for years. Yet, he always stood off.

You clearly state that sometimes the attacker is in such a good position or gets such a good run on the perfect ball in (okay, that bit you did not mention!) that the goal is inevitable. But the way our goals against are analysed, especially on corners, seems to presume there is always an error in the defence.

By way of example, perhaps you could indulge me with a 'neutral' analysis of Romelu Lukaku's first goal for Man Utd at Burnley on Saturday. Zonal or man-to-man — were Burnley really at fault for that? Or was it simply a case of a pinpoint cross onto the head of the Big Galloot?

To my scaley eyes, there were two defenders pretty close to him, both watching the ball come in and watching the man, but not close enough to put in an effective challenge, simply because of their positions when the ball was clipped in. Had they been closer, however, I suspect that it would have been hard to effectively prevent Lukaku from scoring without fouling him, and the risk of giving up a penalty.

(I know it wasn't a set piece but I think Burnley had ample time to set their defence in this case.)

One thing stuck out, however: set-pieces only getting you or costing you 3% of goals didn't seem right. Not sure if this is your figure or a quote from Martinez but a quick look at last year's Premier League shows 1018 goals and 120 of those from corners = 11%.

I'm not one for stats but set pieces play a much higher part than 3% of goals, also that figure is just corners, not direct or indirect free kicks.
I think the hybrid option best and, even if Silva sticks with a purely zonal system, I think Mina will make a big difference at both ends.

I suggest all the people suggesting man-for-man marking, have a look around at all the best coaches using zonal whether it be Guardiola, with apart from his back 4 and Fernandino has midgets do they concede goals from corners no!!

Klopp uses zonal and, as I said a couple of weeks back, they used to concede like we are at present till the got Van Dijk. Conte won the Premier League playing zonal. Pochettino plays a variation of zonal.

So stop blaming the manager, the players are to blame not him. Let's see when we have Mina, Zouma, Digne and Gomes all in the same side... let's see how many we concede then.

My particular thoughts are a post VAR world which you touched on will need a zonal system to reduce contact areas but will also need revision. There will be tactical changes from it.

My point is Silva's wedded to his principles, now that's great but so was Martinez to the point of extinction.

Has Silva got it in him to change and keep up with potential changes in the footballing landscape? Your many lines of support for him suggest not.

That for me is a significant worry. A bridge to cross down the line but why not try and get ahead of the curve?

It feels like the taller the player, the more room for error in the players lack of movement. I fully understand that, in zonal, players attack the ball not the player, but even the best exponents ball watch and are often stuck in concrete. What gets them out of the situation? Their physical height, I guess?

Really that simple, taller players better zonal? The issue is the front post, ultimately the best header who can read the flight of the ball goes there. To date, it's been Tosun and Calvert-Lewin. That needs sorting.

You never improve by standing still. We had to try something different to close the gap and I believe it will work.

Attacking players have gotten too fast to get touch-tight to. It's all about defending in the correct areas now.

When it enevitably comes in, we will be ahead of the curve and ready. Man marking days are numbered.

John, show me one criticism of Silva's Hull from zonal marking. Google is your friend. I can't find any.

Michael, Mee held position for no reason. Only Lukaku was there, it was three on one. He should have tried to beat Lukaku to the ball knowing he had Tarkowski and the fullback to assist if he slipped, fell or was pushed. So yes, great ball, but Lukaku pulled off Mee and he didn't react.

John, get ahead of the curve how? And John, the height issue is something I've noticed from Vitoria at Estoril to Ranocchia at Hull. Silva signs 6'-5” centre-halves only. He never signed anyone under 6-'3”. Clearly height is a key. But Mina is very mobile. As I said, he's both fast and slow. Slow over 10 yards, fast once he gets going.

Had you read my post rather than get ultra defensive regarding any sort of criticism of Silva, you would not have asked that question.

Martinez isn't incorrect about the 3% – the statistics you cite aren't quite addressing the same thing. That is, Martinez isn't saying only 3% of goals are scored from corners, but rather that only 3% of corners are successful in leading to a goal. Slightly different, but the nuance is important. As an article from the Times last year notes, 3% is about right.

As you can see there, some teams (Everton, West Brom, etc...) convert 5%+ of corners into goals, but these are far outweighed by the majority of teams who convert less than 3% of corners into goals. For example, Man City's success rate was 1.5%.

One: Silva must be speaking to them in Portuguese... or,

Two: The majority of the professional footballers he inherited are simply thick.

I know which option I believe.

Could match goers enlighten me on whether that is the case or even if it is necessary in the modern zonal tactics?

So far this season I have witnessed both.

I have seen them scratching around and screaming at each other as if they haven't a clue. I have also watched them set up without a word but it's still obvious they haven't got a clue.

I just wish someone would get them all together and make a plan.

In pre-season, it was atrocious. It was very embarrassing to watch them defend and even bury were getting through them, round them and over the top. Silva adjusted and dropped them back a good 5 or even 10 yards. It's still a high line but not a crazy high line. That and the defence seem faster.

The only criticism of the defence can be the big one, their execution of zonal marking. So I'd say we can see improvements all over the pitch, just a major, major regression at set pieces were Allardyce was exceptionally strong, and we only gave up 6 goals all of last season, as bad as we were. We've conceded 4 already.

Dick. Baines never talks. Coleman talks when the ball is out of play. Holgate and Jags go through periods of talking and silence. Keane is very quiet. Zouma isn't seen to talk much. It's a far cry from Dave Watson who all he did was point and bellow. It was amazing he had time to get himself into position. Sadly, we've no one even close to that.

In all our games so far, we've been opened up in open play and good luck and poor finishing has allowed us to escape. Even Rotherham had 2 great chances from open play. Look at the miss down at the Gwladys Street end.

I heard an interesting stat. When at Hull, they let in 36 goals, 14 from dead-ball situations. At Watford, out of 44 goals shipped in, 17 were from set pieces. 10% more than the league average. As you said, ignoring the free-kick at Wolves, we're 4 from 7.

As I keep saying, I have no problem whatever tactic Silva uses defensively; it just seems to me, and others, he has to tweak it.

A number of posters ask for more time which is fair enough but how long is long? A season?

Some reckon we should wait until we get a "settled" defence? So what happens when we get injuries and suspensions?

You say there has been defensive improvements, your opinion shared by many no doubt. In the scheme of things, I don't see it and I have to see many at the match also don't see it.

I am afraid, unless he becomes more flexible, all the good work Silva has done in attack will be negated by the lack of improvement at the back. Just a sign of improvement would be appreciated by many.

Defending is a skill, and at the moment the psyche and dynamic of the team is still too feeble to be totally effective, but it will come.

The game's changed in style but that team defended and played as a team, verbally from Nev, Watson, Ratcliffe and Pat... the midfield were no church mice... The forward line was the first line of defence.

The charisma of this team is being formed and let's hope the next full captain and the team get in the groove that all good sides find, in time. Patience is needed.

Zonal marking did not suddenly arrive in the nineties, although I do agree, it did signal the birth of the Number 10... decades before.

The Zonal marking in open play which Kenny Dalgleish so ruthlessly exploited had been established around the world for years and he was not just exploiting the "poor English game" – especially when you consider the success the English teams had in Europe around the time. He was destroying defences all over Europe.

Dalgleish was not the first either. Bobby Charlton was doing it 20 years before him; so was Tostao... Puskas was even earlier.

To truly understand zonal marking, you need to understand its origins; it's not something that suddenly sprang up in the nineties. The term "zonal" may have been introduced later but, even at schoolboy level, teams had long since ditched total man-marking – at least the decent ones had.

The fluidity of a zonal system when defending a set-piece is at least, if not more important than it is in open play. Having gone through drills with players at a decent level, I am fully aware of the problems a "this-is-your-area" rigid zonal system brings.

Let me give an example; We are playing Spurs. We are 1-0 up in the last minute, but they have a corner. Loriente strips off and runs on. He looks around and sees one of our "shorter" players have been given a particular space to police (Seamus?). The bastard does not do what we want him to do and match himself up with one of our units. He gets on Seamus's shoulder. The whole ground know that, if Eriksen can put the ball in that area, he will fecking murder our boy. Somebody else has to occupy that space... but where does Seamus go? Does he go into the space vacated?

Zonal marking only works when you have flexibility and fluidity. When each man understands not just his role, but everyone else's.

This is another monumental effort, Steve, and you are to be congratulated, but I must take issue on one claim: Hull?

You know how to research these things, Steve. Take a look at the amount of goals they conceded while their three big units did a perfect impression of a row of lighthouses... They were as bad then as we are now.

I think we all get a little hung up here thinking it's all or nothing; nobody – and I do mean nobody – employs a total zonal system, especially if there is a Duncan Ferguson ranging. Even the most ardent coach will compromise.

I remember sitting in a session given by George Graham at Rushden & Diamonds' "New" gaff – after "The Bung" scandal. He was asked how he defended so successfully. After going through the pros and cons of different systems, he gave a very simple answer. He told the audience that defending set-pieces is not about systems, it's not about how tall your players are.

"It's all about desire... The defending team have an enormous advantage," he said. "They can clear it anywhere and it's job done. The attacking team have to get it into that little space between the post and the cross bar."

He told the audience he did not drill his players to defend set-pieces during the week. He simply told them to sort it between themselves and work on it...

"But don't you fucking dare come back in here on Saturday and tell me the other team have shown more desire than you!"

Finally, the piece I submitted a few weeks ago was not an argument for or against Zonal Marking, it was to discuss the wisdom of trying to get a group containing three thirty-somethings to adapt to a system that is totally alien to them. I was told it will eventually work – it hasn't... and it won't.

I was told it won't cost us too many points – it already has!!

I was told that Silva will not change it. He will...

I'm with Derek Thomas @10, George Graham and good old fashioned simplicity...

Southampton had a few good chances from open play as did Bournemouth; as mentioned, the mighty Rotherham missed two great chances, one in each half.

And no, I don't see any noticeable improvement. We are still open, our defenders are still making individual and team errors. We are still failing to stop crosses coming in. At set plays we are as bad if not worse than last season.

Now you may see different things than I do but if you think there has been defensive improvements under Silva then there's not much I can say. I will give credit to Silva if I see improvements... but, if I don't, I will question him.

His past defensive record in the short time he has been in English football has not set the world on fire and, so far this season, nothing I have seen has shown me he has learned.

It may seem I am in the minority in this but all I can say it is quite a large minority going on what those around me say at and after the games.

And no, I watched the saints game about 20 times and they didn't get behind, through, or past the defence. They just had those set piece chances and the Pickford save after he spilled a soft shot. That doesn't mean the defence was breached.

Oh, Park End.

We'll leave it there if you want. But sit through the game as many times as I did and trying to dissect it all – you'll see that the defence held firm. It wasn't a good defensive performance and some of it was good luck, but Saints couldn't get through us, past us or over us. They can shoot from distance all they want, that's not the defence's fault. Sort out zonal marking and we'll be flying.

Anyway, we ain't played anyone yet. Arsenal is the test. They've got plenty of players who can rip good defences apart and we ain't a good defence.

I prefer man-to-man myself, but where it falls down is when the attacking team bunches together, like the love train England used in the summer. Look at the joy England had by stopping Harry Maguire from being man-marked – he won every header he was left to challenge for. This is where zonal marking can help.

I personally think it's too early to judge anything. We have had a different back 4 in every game so far, players sent off etc. Let the new personnel come in, and then we'll see if the problem is the personnel or the system.

If we do persist with the current system, I hope Silva remembers that the most important zone is the 6-yard box in front of our goal. Opposition teams should not be getting tap-ins 6 yards out unchallenged. Place an extra man there if all else fails.

The point I'm making is that (hopefully) Mina could make all the difference if he's positioned on the corner of the 6-yard box nearest the corner kick. We need someone to dominate this area to stop us leaking goals; hopefully he can do for us what Van Dijk has done for the other lot.

"It was to discuss the wisdom of trying to get a group containing three thirty-somethings to adapt to a system that is totally alien to them. I was told it will eventually work – it hasn't... and it won't."

You can coach schoolboys to play the system, but not top-level professional footballers?

And I never said Cantona was the first either. Read it again.

“Cantona exploited zonal marking in the 1990s” – no mention of when zonal marking was introduced, no mention of Cantona being first. It simply explains zonal marking being in place and Cantona exploiting it.

Cantona's exploitation and the reintroduction of English football to European football revolutionised English football tactics which had become antiquated as a result of the isolation of the English game. That's indisputable, Darren.

As for the French laughing at the English game, they did, Darren. As I said, not because Cantona was terrible but because what he was doing was so simple and yet we didn't do anything about it. The point is that it was constantly noted that all he was doing was standing between the two banks of four and yet he was held up as a genius. It was this that the French, and others laughed at. That and how much the English game had declined due to the ban.

But there is a strong case for teams to use man-for-man from set-pieces, particularly corners when teams really need to decide who is responsible for which attacking player. This is exactly what Steve Ferns advocates.

The problem lies with the obstruction which is now permitted at every set piece, when players hold and block off the ball. You see players now who have no idea where the ball is from a corner as they are so busy watching and holding their opponent.

Man-for-man marking is as successful as the referee allows it to be and there is not the collective will of officials to police the game effectively.

Although mention of his 'All British' figures have hardly been sighted up to now, the Echo has, today, disclosed that, since his arrival on these shores, no less than 38% of corners awarded against his sides have ended up in the defenders' net. This has to be set against a Premier average of a full 10% less.

So whilst our manager's disciples preach patience whilst he drills his new troops, the portents are not good by any standard. He couldn't manage to effect a solution at Hull or Watford so why should one be a given at Everton?

Whilst so many have panned my suspicion that Silva will go the way of Martinez, the fact remains that, just like the Catalan, the man just cannot defend – and quite bizarrely blames a fledgling centre- forward for the loss of two points in the last game!

So, it seems, unless he can find a forward line to outscore the opposition, however many we concede, we – and he – are doomed to go the way of his previous career in England. Down the pan.

Recent years have seen us still playing at least two of Moyes's men (Baines & Jagielka) and the central defensive pair chopping and changing. I'd say that either system will work, but not without a settled back line and not with aging players who haven't got the pace they once had.

Then, with the likes of Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Coleman, Digne in charge of man marking other threats – take up space, be physical, be a nuisance, etc. One of them needs to be on the back post – with Pickford also watching the ball and aiming to gather at the front post.

The likes of Tosun, Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison – again, whoever is on the pitch – tasked to attack the ball within a zonal channel. One front post, one in the middle – watch the ball, not the players.

Then the likes of Gueye and Walcott to be used to win the second ball. With Walcott being the counter-attacking outlet up top – as his speed and ability to break at speed is a great asset.

It's all well saying a taller defender will make zonal marking work, but our last two goals against Huddersfield and Bournemouth, we had nobody near their player when they struck, they were unmarked, left alone. It don't matter how tall you are, if you're not near the ball or your marker (in your zone), you're fucked.

Maybe the message will take a little while to get across.

Personally I do not want to read pontifications about the why's and wherefores' of zonal marking, in fact I am fed up of listening to 'those that know'. I am more interested in seeing with my own eyes the result of a system that the players can play to and one that stops these silly goals from set pieces.

Until then Steve, you can write until you are 'blue in the face' but as the Dragons like to say "I'm Out".

Did you think of that one your own or did you have to ask a 5-year-old to give you that brilliant line? Wow, I have never had anyone make that joke about my name, how has everyone missed that for all these decades?

Desire, bravery, it's the main ingredient, and I would have enjoyed listening to a man as good as George Graham, and bet he was a very uncomplicated coach?

Steve, like most of us I fuckin hate that 5 times shout, and I often throw in to a debate, how many United would have won only for the way eufa, changed the rules, and they could only play “3 NON-ENGLISH PLAYERS” when they possibly had Ferguson's best team, during the Cantana era?

Using what you have seen with your own eyes.
How do you reckon we should set up defending set pieces?

The fact that only Sir Alex got the best out of him says a lot about his man-management skills.

A good thread this, but 99 times out of 100, if a defence is fully committed to not conceding and has the ability to concentrate consistently, it doesn't matter what you call the 'system', they'll concede less goals.

Over 30 years since we had a defence like that, surely we're due one?

Set-piece defending — will it be sorted out over the break? Zonal marking — will he get it sorted? Will he be able to get the players to adapt to it or be able to get in players with awareness who can?

Midfield and wings — can Silva get more quality ball in to forwards? Forwards — can they get into good positions and actually beat their markers?

The next few weeks will show if Silva has the coaching ability or not. He appears to be heading in the right direction, but the above issues have to be addressed and the attempt at changes have to be seen when Everton next play.