Leipzig not giving up on pursuit of Lookman

Monday, 9 July, 2018 106comments  |  Jump to last

Despite having at least one bid knocked back by Everton, Red Bull Leipzig are still hoping to land Ademola Lookman who they say wants to make his January move to Germany permanent.

Lookman opted to join the Bundesliga club during the last transfer window having grown frustrated with a lack of playing time at Goodison Park under Sam Allardyce.

He impressed Leipzig sufficiently that they have made moves to sign him this summer but a £12m offer was rejected by the Blues and there have been reports that a second £14m bid was also rebuffed.

That doesn't seem to be deterring Ralf Rangnick, Leipzig's sporting director who will operate as head coach for the coming season.

"We're still in talks over Ademola Lookman," Rangnick is quoted as saying.

"We want him back and he wants to come."

Together with manager, Marco Silva, Everton's new Director of Football, Marcel Brands, has made youth an important part of his plans meaning that Lookman is likely to get more opportunities in the coming season but it remains to be seen whether he will agitate for a permanent move away.  

Reader Comments (106)

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Jim Bennings
1 Posted 09/07/2018 at 15:23:50
He doesn't want to stay apparently so he'll more than likely be sold which is a gross cock-up from Everton again.

Lookman should have been given the game time that “barn door girls shooting power” Calvert-Lewin had last season and maybe he wouldn't be thinking his future is better away from Everton.

Dave Abrahams
2 Posted 09/07/2018 at 15:25:50
Do Everton have to give Charlton Athletic any money if this deal goes through? It might make a difference to any transfer deal if they do.

I hope Lookman stays, he has the potential to be a very good player, needs the chance to prove it.

Michael Kenrick
3 Posted 09/07/2018 at 15:31:48
Really disappointing if true. Let's hope the boys try to turn him back while in Austria!
Jamie Crowley
4 Posted 09/07/2018 at 15:36:31
Personally I’ll be shocked and stunned if we let him go.

I see us holding onto Lookman and integrating him into the set new Silva set up.

It’s not enough money in today’s game to let him go. A rising star is worth twice what they are offering in today’s market.

John Hammond
5 Posted 09/07/2018 at 15:39:15
If it's true that he wants to leave then that is a massive disappointment but who can blame him.
Brian Williams
6 Posted 09/07/2018 at 15:47:51
Just waiting for Kenwright to be blamed for Wilshere signing for West Ham Utd, and Everton "missing out" again!
Ian Burns
7 Posted 09/07/2018 at 15:53:05
Shocking news if true. It wasn't so long ago that the young man was thanking his lucky stars Everton had seen fit to sign him. I wish we could write Koeman and Allardyce out of our history.

If he has his heart set on a move, then it's all about getting the right money for him – but this club has lost so much of its "pull" during recent years, it saddens me.

Jay Harris
8 Posted 09/07/2018 at 15:55:45
I am a bit ambivalent about this one. No-one can deny the lad has talent but he also seems to have an attitude problem and a rather large ego.

I didn't see enough consistency from him to warrant regular game time and that may become an issue if we insist on keeping him.

I would much sooner get Tierney and have the left-back doubling up as a left-sided midfield player.

Chris Gould
9 Posted 09/07/2018 at 16:02:47
Rangnick is out of order saying that Lookman wants to move. Such statements cause unrest amongst our fans and also create an uncomfortable environment for Lookman. It's a blatant attempt to force the move and we really should tell Rangnick to do one.

Lookman is a kid on a long contract. If we want him to stay then he'll be going nowhere. He isn't anything other than potential at the moment. He will fall in line if that's what Brands and Silva want.

James Stewart
11 Posted 09/07/2018 at 16:12:02
@Agreed, the only reason he has gone public is to try and unsettle the player.

No way we should be selling him, just flat out refuse. He has a long contract we hold the cards.

John Wells
12 Posted 09/07/2018 at 16:12:26
I don't think Everton FC should get too much shit for this. Lookman needs to maybe grow up a touch, we all get shit in our jobs, we talk it out and sort it out.

The club had given Allardyce the job and they had to back him, just like if you or I were a manager somewhere, we would expect backing. I never wanted Allardyceby the way but Lookman needs to have a chat with Silva and then leave the past where it is, grow up and play ball.

Also, Everton let him go to Germany where he wanted to go. I hope he stays and I never thought he should have been loaned out. Silva will hopefully get the best from him.

Mike Gaynes
16 Posted 09/07/2018 at 16:23:13
It's not Lookman's decision, or Ragnick's either. His Everton contract runs to June 2022 I believe.

If Brands says he stays, he stays.

Joe McMahon
17 Posted 09/07/2018 at 16:42:39
Brian, this thread isn't about Wilshere or Liberace.
Fran Mitchell
18 Posted 09/07/2018 at 16:50:29
People saying Lookman has a bad attitude or something, where do you get that from?

The fact is, despite showing great potential, our club wouldn't 'risk' playing him and thus gave more time to players like Bolasie, Rooney despite poor performances.

Leipzig have a great record in developing youth, far better than us, and play in Europe. It makes sense that the lad would be interested in returning there.

I just hope that Silva can convince him that Everton is the right club for him, offer a new 5-year contract with a wage increase that shows he is a first team player, with performance-related bonuses.

Tony Twist
19 Posted 09/07/2018 at 16:52:28
Sounds like he wants to go. Maybe they have something which is why the bid is so low, buy out clause or "I was bullied, it is too hard to come back here to play again" — who knows?

There were one or two things that really tested my belief in Everton during the Koeman era; let's hope all is not lost with keeping Lookman. Everton are to blame if he goes, and on the cheap.

James Hughes
20 Posted 09/07/2018 at 16:54:18
Brian, it's a disgrace, mate. Boys Pen Bill was too busy trying to sign Liberace that he missed Wilshere. I mean Liberace is a good player plays on the wing, as he is fast and light on his feet.

But, but... West Ham got The Boy Jack for £50k, 200 malboro and a crate of Stella per week.

Kevin Dyer
21 Posted 09/07/2018 at 17:05:44
Laughable initial bid. £12m for a lad with great potential that they've seen can already play well at Bundesliga level? We paid £10m 18 months ago when he was a prospect playing in League One.

He has a long contract and hasn't put in a transfer request. For them to actually bother merely adding £2m for a second bid is a little worrying; it suggests they've been given encouragement by EFC. Either that or sheer incompetence by Leipzig!

Iain Johnston
22 Posted 09/07/2018 at 17:17:23
Most half decent players shine in poor leagues it's why Lookman is standing out in Germany... a bit like Tierney at Celtic.

Allardyce wasn't the only manager to leave Lookman on the bench, both Koeman and Unsworth did the same. He was hardly getting any game time for England too and for all his lauded displays for Leipzig he wasn't even in the the squad for the Toulon Tournament.

So that's four managers who are wrong then?

He'll go simply because he knows he'll get an easier ride, not have to work as hard and be more successful in a two team league.

Brian Porter
23 Posted 09/07/2018 at 17:20:04
No need to let him go when he's on such a long contract. But he needs to be told he's going nowhere until he's had the opportunity to show Everton he can be a mature player who will do his best for the club that pays his wages. If after a year in the first team squad, with ample playing opportunities the club will then assess the situation. New management team, new regime, forget Allardyce, Ademola, this is the new reality.
Tony Everan
24 Posted 09/07/2018 at 17:24:06
Lookman has had no guarantee of a starting place from Silva . The toys are out of the pram and he wants out.

I want him to stay and fight like a man for his place.

If not it’s double what we paid with a 50% sell on clause or we are selling ourself short again.

Jay Harris
25 Posted 09/07/2018 at 17:31:50
I couldnt agree more.

If he had the attitude of DCL he would still be here fighting for his place.

Brian Harrison
26 Posted 09/07/2018 at 17:33:44
I hope if Silva wants him then he tells him he will be included in the first team squad. But if he doesnt then you do what other clubs do ask for something that makes it worth our while so nothing less than £20 million. I can well understand Lookman feeling that he was badly treated by Allardyce, and thinks well as a club you let me go to Leipzig and I enjoyed it there and I would like to return. I mean it was only a matter of a couple of months back that Allardyce when questioned over Leipzig making an offer said we will see what the offer is. Which says to Lookman we are prepared to let you go. Now just because Allardyce is no longer here might not make a jot of difference to Lookman the dye might be already cast.

Seems seeing that the vision set out by Brands and Silva is to encourage the younger players in the squad, then I think this would completely send out the wrong message.

Dermot Byrne
27 Posted 09/07/2018 at 17:40:38
If we want him we have him under contract. Then play him. No player is surely going to risk being crap and finding demand for him just fades away. That would be career suicide for someone who hasn't made his name yet.

As for bad influence on training ground. Cannot see it after any initial sulk ends.

Club needs to show some backbone if management team wants him.

If they don't want him, play Leipzig for best fee.

Brian Harrison
28 Posted 09/07/2018 at 17:41:13

The difference between Calvert-Lewin and Lookman was that Calvert-Lewin wasn't loaned out and Lookman was. Also, he didn't take the soft option of joining Derby as Allardyce wanted, but chose a much stronger league than the Championship to show his qualities, which he did. So I don't think Lookman lacks attitude – in fact, digging his heels in and going to Leipzig shows he has bags of ambition.

John Kavanagh
29 Posted 09/07/2018 at 17:42:39
Time for our new management team to show they mean business and that we are no longer a soft touch. RB Leipzig should be told – publicly – that Lookman is not for sale to them at any price. Lookman must be told he has a contract with us and he will only ever be sold at price that is acceptable to us and to a club we are willing to enter into negotiations with.

The frightening thing is that RB are saying that they are still in talks with us. Why? After an insulting £12 million offer, they should simply have been told to bugger off and don't ever come back.

The loan and the subsequent permanent transfer for a knock down fee have all been carefully planned by RB, the player and his agent. This after our being battered by Swansea for over twice a player's value and being completely outmaneuvered by Barkley and Chelsea. Does anyone think Levy at Spurs would allow them to be made to look so weak and incompetent?

Drew Shortis
30 Posted 09/07/2018 at 17:44:41
Brands & Silva need to be firm over this one and tell him he's staying/make it clear to Leipzig we're not selling. Make it clear he's in their first team plans. If we let him slip through our fingers, we're going to seriously regret it in a few years time when he's an England regular and playing at one of the top clubs in England or Europe!
Dermot Byrne
31 Posted 09/07/2018 at 17:52:02
I think consensus about our club is "grow some"!
Ste Traverse
32 Posted 09/07/2018 at 17:59:37
He should never have been sent out on loan in the first place by fat Sam, and then he wouldn't be looking for a move to the club he'd been on loan at.

Lookman is a rough diamond with bags of potential who should have been getting more game time last season ahead of that turkey Bolasie. Remember his impact at Anfield in the FA Cup?

And Leipzig can fuck off with that pathetic offer for him.

Steve Ferns
33 Posted 09/07/2018 at 18:01:24
Guys, as I said last time we discussed this issue and several people have said above, Everton hold all the cards. The lad has three years left. He can't force a move. He can't waste a year of his career either. We reject the bids and publicly tell RB Leipzig where to go.

Also, has Lookman really said he wants to leave? Could it not just be a polite “I'd love to come back”? As in the very English thing of not actually meaning what you say. Topically, how many of you have made friends on your hols and said, “We'll keep in touch and definitely drive all the way to Land's End / John O'groats to see you” which means, we'll send you one Christmas card and never bother ringing you... maybe we'll add you on Facebook if we remember!

Also, RB Leipzig are the MK Dons of Germany and the rest of the country hates them. Why play for a tin pot “new club” like that?

It's up to Silva. Keep the lad and give him a few games, he'll soon be loyal to our cause and forget all about Leipshit.

Mike Gaynes
34 Posted 09/07/2018 at 18:05:31
Iain (#22) did you just say that the Bundesliga is a poor league?
Ian Bennett
35 Posted 09/07/2018 at 18:09:44
The lack of activity, and good players like this wanting out, isn't exactly the plan I was hoping for.

32 days until transfer deadline day...

Fran Mitchell
36 Posted 09/07/2018 at 18:21:29
Indeed, Mike (#34), the number of people who seem to believe that the Premier League is the only decent league in the world is quite astounding, especially when you see how poor the bottom 13 of the Premier League actually is.

Look at the Premier League teams performances in Europe, especially the Europa League, and the reality can be seen, the Premier League just ain't that strong.

To compare the Bundesliga with the Scottish Premier League is quite astounding ignorance.

Lawrence Green
37 Posted 09/07/2018 at 18:23:56
If a player wants to leave Everton FC, then he can leave as far as I'm concerned – no use starting a new era with players who would rather be elsewhere.

At the same token, Everton FC aren't going to allow players to leave for peanuts, much as they won't get burned again by paying inflated prices for average players.

Patience, fellow Evertonians... it's not as if we haven't grown used to the fluctuations of the transfer merry-go-round is it?

Ajay Gopal
38 Posted 09/07/2018 at 18:26:44
He shouldn't be let go. Simple. He needs to play much more than Everton need him. However, if Everton want to sell him, remember RB Leipzig have £54 million sloshing around in their bank account.
Derek Taylor
39 Posted 09/07/2018 at 18:27:26
With the emphasis being on 'slimming down', I guess nearly every player has a price.

I expect Lookman to go for about £15M so Kenwright can show a profit, rather than be hanging about in Unsy's squad as he would be.

Derek Taylor
40 Posted 09/07/2018 at 18:29:34
Mmmmmm...£15M !
Mike Gaynes
41 Posted 09/07/2018 at 18:32:34
Steve, spot on regarding Lookman's alleged feelings on the subject, but I'm bemused by your contempt for Leipzig.

It's a young, talented club with the likes of Werner and Forsberg and young Augustin, although losing Keita to the RS will hurt. Since promotion, they've finished second and sixth with wins over Bayern both seasons.

They played in the Champions League and the Europa League last season, which we didn't, and showed an exciting brand of footy, which we don't. They've got a lovely stadium and great fan support. They're hated because of the arrogance of Red Bull, not because of the team itself. And Hasenhüttl actually had them feeding off that hatred with an us-versus-them mentality (unknown if Ragnick will do the same).

I can understand why Lookman's popularity at a club like that would turn his head – if it has been turned.

Steve Ferns
42 Posted 09/07/2018 at 18:42:09
Mike, don't follow Bundesliga too closely. I have read a lot on the subject from the point of view of Dortmund fans, and noted the utter contempt the rest of Germany have for RB Leipzig.

It appears to me, and by all means correct me if I'm wrong, that they are just another MK Dons. If that is the correct position, then I have nothing but contempt for them.

And It's not because of Red Bull, it's because of what RB are doing, just as what MK Dons did to what was Wimbledon.

Mike Gaynes
43 Posted 09/07/2018 at 19:09:16
You've got me there, Steve... what are they doing? Everything I've read says it's all about resentment for Red Bull pouring in money and skirting regulations, plus some leftover derision for RB Leipzig's East German origins. What's the comparison to MK Dons? (And remember, I'm a long way removed from that particular controversy.)
Steve Ferns
44 Posted 09/07/2018 at 19:19:09
Wimbledon FC were a club that rose from the English non-league to play in the top flight. Their pinnacle was doing the evil reds at Wembley in the '88 FA Cup Final. Over a decade later, the club fell out of the top flight and imploded financially. They were "saved" by some guy who moved the now homeless club (they had to leave Plough Lane because it was too small and played at Selhurst Park and then Plough Lane was sold – expensive London real estate) all the way up to Milton Keynes.

They then proceeded to change everything about the club. They kept the Dons part of Wimbledon in a nod to them, but did change the name, the kit and had a fancy new stadium. The Wimbledon fans decided this new club was not their club and formed AFC Wimbledon who are now above MK Dons in the football pyramid. Everyone old enough to remember Wimbledon hates MK Dons, but that'll change as they start to make their own history, and it was a good step by them letting AFC Wimbledon have claim to the MK Don's past, as they are effectively a new club.

RB Leipzig haven't take over a club with history, not that Wimbledon had that much of it, but it is still big business taking over a club, sticking two fingers up to tradition, changing the name, changing the kit, building a new stadium and effectively creating a club and killing another. They also contravene the German rules on ownership, charging over €1,000 for membership when others charge €50-€100. This means that RB can do what they want and fuck the fans.

I just don't like it, Mike.

Lev Vellene
45 Posted 09/07/2018 at 19:28:15
Sorry, I missed the link... Was that to RB Leipzig's, or Everton's home page?

I can't think Ademola would want to move permanently if the new regime tells him he'll be a vital part of our new-look team in the Premier League...

"Silence is golden", the rest is very much falsetto... ;D

Mike Gaynes
46 Posted 09/07/2018 at 19:42:21
Thanks for the additional background about Wimbledon, Steve... that was my understanding as well. But I'm still lost as to the comparison. Red Bull bought the footy license of a fifth-tier athletic club with no tradition (and which apparently still competes in the lower leagues under the same name), not a formerly top club fallen on hard times.

Obviously Red Bull has outraged just about everybody with their corporate tactics and, as I mentioned, skirting of the rules. I read many Dortmund fans won't go to Leipzig for away fixtures because they don't want to put money in Red Bull's pockets, right? But RB Leipzig still seems like a temptingly attractive place for a young footballer.

Minik Hansen
47 Posted 09/07/2018 at 19:52:42
Leipzig wants him, and if he wants to leave, then we can try to get a good amount of money. How mich are they willing to pay for him? Then we'll have one less player to worry about in this huge squad. I wish he'd stay, though!
Henry Lloyd
48 Posted 09/07/2018 at 19:59:20
Good Comments Mike regarding the Red bull thing; they are arrogant people, to say the least.

Lookman going to Leipzig is very probable. In all honesty, I don't think the lad is as good as he and we think he is.

He was given several chances (by two shit managers) but he did indeed fail to shine or impress.

If he doesn't want to play for Everton, as the rumour suggests, let him go as he is average at best, in my opinion.

Andy Crooks
49 Posted 09/07/2018 at 20:04:51
Minik, you say "Leipzig wants him," now that would be worrying if, say, Barcelona wanted him, or Man Utd etc. He will only leave if Silva decides he is not good enough.
Darren Hind
50 Posted 09/07/2018 at 20:05:28
I worked for a famous transport company in the nineties and lived in Milton Keynes for a while.

The club sprouted from Mercedes Benz football team. The transport manager in Mercs (Bob Flight, a lovely man) was the secretary of the football club. He had a dream that he could build a team from the community in Milton Keynes, it was a huge catchment area and he thought a "local" team coming up the right way would draw massive support.

He gained possession of the old Wolverton Park ground (home of the oldest wooden stand in the world), built a fantastic club house, resurrected the pitch, repaired the floodlights, and cleared the viewing area. He also changed their name to Milton Keynes. Everything depended on local backing and lottery grants.

Over the other side of the City, Pete Winkleman had other ideas; he knew Wimbledon were desperately seeking a home. This guy was razor sharp and found the backing and funding to build a ridiculously modern stadium. He believed that, if he built it, they would come.

The ground is empty for most MK Dons games, they struggle to get 5,000 into the ground, most locals find it difficult to relate to what is essentially a franchise and the rest of the Football League clubs (not just Wimbledon) despise them.... Oh, and Bob Flight's dream went sadly unrecognised.

Henry Lloyd
51 Posted 09/07/2018 at 20:06:14
You could well be right, Andy.
Iain Johnston
52 Posted 09/07/2018 at 20:06:39
Mike (#32). Yes, mate, I did.

Mr Mitchell (#36). I'm more than happy to be classed as astoundingly ignorant by an expert such as yourself when it comes to the the paucity of quality within the Bundesliga.

Again, I'd be more than happy to read your list of German-based players you'd love to see in Royal Blue who would undoubtedly give us the much-needed quality to help us break into to the top 5.

Steve Ferns
53 Posted 09/07/2018 at 20:07:49
Didn't know that, Darren. When you refer to the "club", do you mean MK Dons? Can you expand a little on that please?
Henry Lloyd
54 Posted 09/07/2018 at 20:10:05
The Class of the German League is 4th in comparison to the Premier League — which of course is number 1.
Steve Ferns
55 Posted 09/07/2018 at 20:15:10
Actually Henry: we're number 2, up from number 3, leapfrogging Germany after a bad year. Spain has been number one for years now.
Darren Hind
56 Posted 09/07/2018 at 20:20:39
No Steve the two never merged.

Back then the amateur scene round the Milton Keynes and Northampton area was full of teams desperate to join the pyramid. The population in that area was booming with people pouring in for work. I did some coaching in the Northampton area and was astonished to see players not at that level getting paid decent money. It was fiercely competitive.

Bob Flight's Mercedes club was the one which changed their name to Milton Keynes and moved to Wolverton Park. At the time, they were just below the recognised pyramid in the South Midlands.

I have a feeling the name was patented and that was the reason Winkleman's Wimbledon were called MK Dons as opposed to Milton Keynes Dons. dont quote me on that though.

It was all a bit of a pipe dream to be honest, Steve; everyone had a few bob, but without serious sustainable financial backing, nobody (with the exception of Bob Flight) really had a chance.

Steve Ferns
57 Posted 09/07/2018 at 20:24:36
Cheers Darren.
Mike Gaynes
58 Posted 09/07/2018 at 20:32:56
Sorry, Iain, but I think you're orbiting the wrong planet.

The Bundesliga has always been one of the top 3-4 leagues in the world, on a par with – and in Europe far more accomplished than – the Premier League.

The non-competitive Scottish Premier League has never cracked the top 20.

Keith Monaghan
59 Posted 09/07/2018 at 20:36:07
Some facts:-

None of us know if Lookman wants to go or not.

None of us, or the so-called experts like Lineker & Shearer, know which is the best league in the World (how much of the German, Spanish, French, Brazilian leagues to do of us/them see? Very little, I suggest.

Reality, IMO:-
Lookman is a young player who has shown us some very good ability and potential, and that he has a lot to learn. A truly meaningful assessment of his capability to make a significant contribution to our team's progress in the next couple of seasons cannot be assessed on the training ground, so Brands & Silva need to see him in action in real games.

Wilshere? Evidence (a woeful injury/appearance record in recent seasons) appears to suggest we did well to steer clear of him.

Steve Ferns
60 Posted 09/07/2018 at 20:37:16
Keith, head over the training camp thread. Lookman looks happy enough in those videos.
Keith Monaghan
62 Posted 09/07/2018 at 20:55:24
Cheers, Steve, good to know. Let's let our new management team get on with their job, make the assessment, and deal with it. Some people take in far too easily what journos, agents etc spew out.
Bill Gienapp
63 Posted 09/07/2018 at 21:06:08
Just because Rangnick claims Lookman wants to leave doesn't make it gospel. My guess is that Lookman is open to a permanent move (and why wouldn't he be?) and is taking a "wait-and-see" approach with Everton.

The main appeal of Leipzig is regular playing time, coupled with a lack of faith in the Everton hierarchy (based on how the past season went). If Brands and Silva can show him that it is, in fact, a new era here and that he's central to their plans, there's really no reason to agitate for a move.

Paul Mackay
64 Posted 09/07/2018 at 21:26:06
At best, another loan deal. Doubt he would be sold, Brands has already stated that he rates him highly, so let’s all calm down.
John G Davies
65 Posted 09/07/2018 at 21:30:54
Potentially top class, this kid. A No 10 in my opinion, but still worth a start at wide left.
Phil Tottie
66 Posted 09/07/2018 at 22:39:02
For those wanting him to stay – where will you play him and who will he replace? The only option I can see is replacing Walcott; that ain't gonna happen... so Lookman accepts being a squad player or goes somewhere else.
Mike Allison
67 Posted 09/07/2018 at 22:44:25
Phil, (a) your question is based on a hugely outdated notion of a ‘starting XI’ and (b) on the left wing, obviously.
Mike Allison
68 Posted 09/07/2018 at 22:53:05
Steve (55), your UEFA table only includes the teams playing in European competition, the top 4-7 for most leagues. Plenty of room left for subjective debate about which is the strongest league 1-20. My Spanish friend certainly doesn’t think it is Spain, as teams in the bottom half are far weaker and operating on much smaller budgets than their English equivalents. You may think the Premier League is irritatingly top heavy, but it is far worse over there.

Personally I do believe, subjectively, that the Premier League is the strongest in the world when taken as a whole. This may even harm the English UEFA coefficient, as English clubs competing in Europe have to put far more energy, physical and mental, into picking up points domestically. This may be part of the appeal of Germany for someone like Lookman. It’ll be easier to get in the team, easier to qualify for Europe and easier to compete for honours on multiple fronts.

Dick Fearon
69 Posted 09/07/2018 at 22:58:12
Last year, after my one and only 'Lookman' post, I collected a few criticisms for suggesting the lad had a nerve to demand a move.

The club kow-towed to him and now it seems we are reaping what we sowed.

Mark Pringle
70 Posted 09/07/2018 at 23:10:38
Mike @58. Where's the relevance or need of your Scottish Premier League comment? At least on the Tierney thread it was relevant but not here.

We all know the SPL isn't the most competitive but I don't see the need for aimless and pointless repetition of the fact.

I think I'm right in saying you are from the States, hardly the strongest of domestic leagues there either???

Matt Muzi
71 Posted 09/07/2018 at 23:10:52
What annoys me about this is the derisory offer they've made for him. When you consider how much money they've brought in this summer from transfers, my feelings are if Lookman wants to go fine, but for at least double their offer.

The concerning thing is (I may be wrong and, if I am, please feel free to correct me), but I remember reading an article that said Lookman had the best U21 player stats in Europe this season!

Alan McGuffog
72 Posted 09/07/2018 at 23:30:52
Matt... derisory indeed. Could it be, possibly, that we have cultivated a reputation as being a soft touch?
Bob Parrington
73 Posted 09/07/2018 at 23:39:04
If they want him that badly, then £45 million minimum!!!???

Even at that, I'd rather we keep him.

Fran Mitchell
74 Posted 09/07/2018 at 23:51:16
Mark (#70) he mentions the Scottish Premier League because Iain compared the Bundesliga to the Scottish Premier League in terms of quality.

In terms of Germany vs England in quality, while Germany is obviously monopilised by Bayern, I would argue from what I have seen (not that much, tbh) that the league as a whole is of similar quality to the Premier League.

When you see just how awful Everton were last season but finished 8th, and even worse teams like Southampton, West Ham, Newcastle etc surviving despite miserable football.

The Premier League also pays substantially more in wages, charges more for tickets, yet success in Europe is almost non-existent (both Champions League and Europa League).

Germany seems an excellent place for a young player to go and develop their style, as well as the bonus of being away from the tabloids.

Peter Thistle
75 Posted 10/07/2018 at 00:18:10
It's upto Brands and Silva if he goes, not Lookman or Leipzig. Keep him or loan him but don't sell for pennies, makes no sense.
Andy Mead
76 Posted 10/07/2018 at 01:21:52
Why is anybody taking any notice of what the chairman / manager of Leipzig had to say anyway? Obviously he wants the player and is just stirring the shite. Ignore it. Lookman is training back with us under new management. He will only leave if Silva wants him to.
David Israel
77 Posted 10/07/2018 at 01:25:17
Irrespective of whether we should let him go or not (I don't think we should), to offer £12m for a player that cost us just a couple of million pounds less than that is absolutely ridiculous. And Charlton would probably be entitled to an amount in excess of the 'profit'.
David Ellis
78 Posted 10/07/2018 at 03:27:35
In terms of league strengths, look at the Deloitte rankings of the richest clubs. Half of the top 20 are English. The entire Premier League is pretty much in the top 30. No other league comes close to this.

Of course money doesn't translate into footballing excellence... but, other things being equal, it does. Southampton and Stoke and their ilk can and do sign top players from around the world and can out-bid all but the top Spanish, German, French and Italian clubs.

So the Premier League should be by far the strongest league. English clubs generally under-perform in the Europa because they rest players... which they have to do because every week is a very tough game and they can't afford (and outside the top 6 have a legitimate fear of) relegation. This is not the case in the other "top" leagues. (and Man Utd won it the year before last anyway so not sure how much they really under-perform).

The Championship generates more income than any other league in Europe after the Premier League and the top flights in France, Germany, Italy and Spain. More than the Dutch league. Think about the implications of that.

Gavin Johnson
79 Posted 10/07/2018 at 04:06:01
Brands and Silva will have made it clear to Lookman that he's part of 1st team plans. If that's not enough for the lad and he's gonna sulk, he needs to be sold. Something about this kid gives me the vibe he's a sulker and will cause disharmony if he doesn't get his way. I've no evidence of this but it's the impression I get of the kid.

If he's not happy I'd reluctantly sell him for £25m and not a penny less. Anything less than £25m needs to have a large sell on clause.

Mike Gaynes
80 Posted 10/07/2018 at 04:38:45
Mark (#70), no offense intended... as Fran said, I was responding to Iain's comment at #22 comparing Lookman to Tierney in terms of the level of competition.

As for the US domestic league, I've said before that I find it unwatchable in terms of quality, but it does have the (sole) virtue of being one of the most competitive leagues in the world. The last ten MLS Cups have been divided among eight different teams.

Peter Lee
81 Posted 10/07/2018 at 06:27:01
Mike Allison makes good points about the relative merits of the Premier League vs the Bundesliga.

Recently in Munich talking to Bayern fans. They described the Bundesliga as "boring". Whilst retaining their loyalty to Bayern, they explained that there was no genuine competition and that they much preferred to watch the Premier League. "You have six teams who can win the league, and all the others work hard to fuck them up" was one comment, which others agreed with.

European rankings aren't particularly relevant as pointed out. In Spain, France and Germany the dominant teams are just that. They can prioritise European comps without worrying about coming home to face another of the six chasing the title or second rank teams chasing sixth/seventh determined to give them a game. All of the above applies in spades, but on a different level, to the Scottish Premier League.

Alan J Thompson
82 Posted 10/07/2018 at 07:01:25
Peter (#81); I think Guardiola said something very similar quite recently.
Jerome Shields
83 Posted 10/07/2018 at 09:37:29
It's obvious that Lookman hasn't bought into the plans that Brands and Silva have for Everton. I still detect the influence of Kenwright and the parental attitude to backroom staff and players, meaning that change is not as all-encompassing at Everton as it should be. Lookman is back and watching all this.

The reason that Leipzig are keeping on at Everton is that they are very encouraged in their talks with Lookman and his representatives. The other thing is that Lookman can't lose, since competition for his signature is likely to come in.

Tony Abrahams
84 Posted 10/07/2018 at 09:38:54
Six teams that can win the league, and about another ten targeting certain games, let's just hope last season was a one-off?

I hope Lookman stays, he has great potential and I would much prefer to see us build our team from youth, with a few experienced players being brought in to help them.

Not easy of course, because the top young talents want to play for the teams who win things, which is why I think we will be able to hold on to Lookman, unless the powers that be decide he's better moving on...

Clive Rogers
85 Posted 10/07/2018 at 09:41:27
I think he is just trying to get away from Kenwright!
Rick Tarleton
86 Posted 10/07/2018 at 11:01:20
We're allegedly in pursuit of Zaha and this boy is potentially just as good. It makes little sense, but then we gave Barkley away to Chelsea for him to sit on the bench.
Brian Williams
87 Posted 10/07/2018 at 11:13:30
Rick. We were over a barrel with Barkley and got £15m for him when it could have been nowt a few months later. Not the club's fault that one, tbf.

I don't believe for one minute we're after Zaha and I'm surprised so many Blues have been taken in by yet another example of "join the dots" journalism.

Simon Jones
88 Posted 10/07/2018 at 12:11:13
He might simply have had such a boss time in Germany that he really wants to go back. I have worked for guys I'd work for again in a heartbeat if the situation was right.
Jamie Evans
89 Posted 10/07/2018 at 14:13:35
A few people on this thread have alluded to this already but I will ask the question,

'Has anyone else heard that this lad is a bit of a beaut?'

Rick Tarleton
90 Posted 10/07/2018 at 15:15:20
I do realise what you say, Brian, but how we got over the proverbial tub is the real question.
Brian Williams
91 Posted 10/07/2018 at 15:38:20
If we knew that, Rick, we'd be up there challenging, mate!

Let's hope someone does know now.

Paul Kossoff
92 Posted 10/07/2018 at 16:12:24
We really need to get off the blocks and get some players in. Everyone knows our squad is not good enough, bloated yes. West Ham, with a new manager, are way ahead of us in recruiting new men.

The Hammers have already signed Jack Wilshere and Ryan Fredericks on free transfers this summer, plus spent £29m on Issa Diop and Lukasz Fabianski. They are also close to completing the £17m transfer of Ukraine forward Andriy Yarmolenko from Borussia Dortmund. Anderson, 25, is also on the wish list of new manager Manuel Pellegrini.

Where are we with transfers? Not even put our running shoes on yet!

I wonder if we had Pellegrino as manager would we still have no players in? What would that tell us?

Iain Johnston
93 Posted 10/07/2018 at 16:44:08
Mike (#58) and Fran (#74), I understand where you are both coming from, I watched a lot of it until 2015 and there's a huge gulf between the clubs in the top 2 divisions. Larger clubs who are relegated soon bounce back again due to the lack of competition.

Their Euro coefficient is also lacking, they have 2 clubs in the top 24, the same as France, Ukraine and Portugal; we have 6. It's why we get more places.

I wasn't comparing the Bundesliga to the Scottish Premier League, I was highlighting how half decent players from less demanding leagues stand out more giving them a false market value... Lookman is a star at Leipzig but a Premier League also-ran and Tierney would just dilute an already large amount of quality Premier League left full-backs who would cost less than £25M but stands head and shoulders above any other over the border.

Neil Cremin
94 Posted 10/07/2018 at 19:18:27
Just to put things in context: If Belgium meet England in the final. An ambitious Everton could have had 4 players: Pickford, Stones, Fellaini and Lukaku.

And if we were shrewder in the transfer market, Maguire instead of Keane, we would certainly have the nucleus of a top six side. Oh for a little bit of ambition!

Moral is, if we believe Lookman is that good and has the ambition, let's not have similar regrets.

Eugene Kearney
95 Posted 10/07/2018 at 19:58:11
Neil (#94) – Lukaku was never going to stay with us.
Neil Cremin
96 Posted 10/07/2018 at 20:03:59

I am not sure. I remember he was about to sign a new contract but cited lack of ambition during the January transfer window (when he said there were specific players available) as his reason for changing his mind. He went that summer.

Brian Williams
97 Posted 10/07/2018 at 20:14:01
I agree with Eugene. Lukaku considered himself too good for us right from the start. He may have said this or that to justify his eventual leaving but that was just popularity maintenance in my book.

He looked upon us as a stepping stone to a "big" club.

Neil Cremin
98 Posted 10/07/2018 at 20:22:45
I still believe, if we had showed some ambition, we could have tested his resolve. After all, Chelsea let him go.

Maybe Benitez was right because the others were also on our books and went to “bigger” clubs.

If this is where we are, then all we can aspire to is being the best of the rest.

Ray Smith
99 Posted 10/07/2018 at 23:32:08
Gavin (#79),

I tend to agree with you. We need to keep Lookman, but not at the expense of the dressing room. If he defied Allardyce, what else is he capable of?

I want him to stay and be part of the future, however, something tells me: caution. Hope I'm wrong!!!

Martin Faulkner
100 Posted 11/07/2018 at 00:52:28
How about a swap for Emile Forsberg? I thought he looked decent for Sweden and well built for the Premier League.
David Barks
101 Posted 11/07/2018 at 01:56:10

Are you serious? Because he had the audacity to say no to languishing in the Championship and insisted on working in the Bundesliga for one of the top sides, you think that's a negative?

I'll tell you what he's capable of, knowing a hell of a lot more about his capabilities as a footballer than the dinosaur Allardyce, and so does the manager in Germany.

Victor Yu
102 Posted 11/07/2018 at 07:11:54
Big no to Forsberg. He looked below average against England.
William Cartwright
103 Posted 11/07/2018 at 17:09:24
Seems like we are treating players like commodities (albeit well-paid ones). Lookman exercised his right to do what he thought was best for him and go after what he wanted.

If he is still of that persuasion, then let him go with no bad feeling (except for the Fat Controller who it turns out was not really in control of anything or anyone).

Koemardyce – remember the name of the hybrid manager who did more damage to Everton FC than any other in their illustrious history...

Gary Carter
104 Posted 11/07/2018 at 22:58:15
So, whilst we're fending off bids for our top youngsters, West Ham have signed Fredericks, Yarmolenko, Issa Diop and Wilshere who would all hugely improve our team and squad and they have also appointed a proven winner as manager that likes to play attacking football.

We are a joke and next season will be worse than last! Nothing has happened apart from appointing a manager with one of the worst track records in European football!!! 😐

Tony Everan
105 Posted 12/07/2018 at 10:45:57
Cheer up, Gary, there is still time to get 2 or 3 good signings in. Just because West Ham have had a premature ejaculation in the transfers market doesn't yet mean they will be more successful.

Give Brands and Silva a chance, they are trying to get the right players in for the club. Spunking it early can lead to mistakes too.

Tom Bowers
106 Posted 12/07/2018 at 11:22:42
I agree Lookman should be let go at the right price and if he really wants a move. Young players tend to sulk more when they think they are better than they are and have spats with a manager, even if it was Allardyce.

Sometimes talented young players never quite make it to the top and Everton have had their fair share of those but it would be a shame if they lost Lookman.

John Boswell
107 Posted 12/07/2018 at 14:20:14
I do not wish to be drawn into a disagreement with any contributors on ToffeeWeb, I believe that we all need to be heard because we all care so much about Everton FC.

I am optimistic before the commencement of each season — and particularly so this summer, given the changes in the management structure and the boardroom. I am content that Everton is being turned around and that our revival starts here.

I also feel that there is no need to rush out and hoover up players to fill the positions we all seem to agree need to be reinforced. I like the considered approach that it seems is being followed.

I will keep the faith that this time Mr Moshiri has got his backroom team in order and the benefits will be seen on the pitch and in our league position.


Mark Pringle
108 Posted 12/07/2018 at 20:15:23
Mike at 80. Apologies, reading back I took your comments out of context. Also can't believe I was that touchy, combination of late night and frustration around our lack of activity, albeit I can understand Silva, or any manager, wanting to look at what he has got 1st. Here's hoping for Mins in 1st then a few to follow!!
Mark Pringle
109 Posted 12/07/2018 at 20:24:43
Steve Ferns
110 Posted 13/07/2018 at 11:56:31
Gary, time will tell if West Ham have bought well or have just done what we did last season.

We need to remember we were 11th when Koeman took over, he got us to 7th first season then we went mental and tried to break the top 6 by making expensive signings the top 6 did not want, and Pickford aside, we can now see why.

Our approach now is slow progression. Break the top 6 not just for a season but for good. So slowly developing the side, not chasing quick fixes.

Maybe West Ham have done their homework, maybe Old Pellegrini does have something left in the tank and can assemble the signings and what he has into a team and maybe they do pip us into 7th. That doesn't affect us too much, as the goal is not getting 7th, its closing in on the top 6, and doing so for the long term.

Signing players in their late 20s and early 30s gives you all the problems we now have. That they are overpaid, they can lose form and ability, and they can't be sold easily. Instead, we will sign younger players, who have sell on value, have comparatively lower wages, can get better, are open to new ideas, are hungrier, and are easy to move on to a new club if it does not work.

But look at who west ham have signed:
- Jack Wilshere - a major risk of being another Rooney, blighted by injury problems, questions that injury has lessened his ability, but most importantly, he does not fit into our high energy pressing system
- Ryan Fredericks - been in the Championship for a few years, no one else was after him, we certainly wouldn't drop Coleman for him
- Issa Diop - not seen too much of him, but he would have fitted the Silva profile as a giant athletic centre back - could be a very good signing, but who else wanted him, he's also a big gamble and could be another Mangala
- Andrey Yarmolekno - sounds a lot like Sigurdsson, approaching 29th birthday, expensive, he's very slow, especially for a winger, he drifts out of games, he's very injury prone, rarely playing over 25 games a season, flopped badly in germany raising questions over his ability to step up a level. I would also ask the question, does he have to have the team built around him to bring out the best in him, or can he fit in with other players? This is highlighted by his time in Dortmund where he did not do well at all and I think he does have to have the team completely built around him.

I strongly suspect West Ham are doing "an Everton" and that this will backfire like it did for us and they'll be hamstrung for the next few seasons. I am also sceptical about how they will pay for all of this. Gold and Sullivan are very much in it to make money. Perhaps the fan criticism has gone to their heads and they are rolling the dice.

It is a very risky strategy and I much prefer ours, taking it slowly, getting things right, working with what we have, and only bringing in the right player who can slot perfectly into the team, the tactics, and the style of play.

Our targets appear to be:
- left back - Tierney and now Digne - both pacy and energetic
- centre-back - I expect a giant like Mina
- midfielder - a passing midfielder to move the ball quickly, Joao Mario (of Inter but at West Ham last season on loan, and previously at Sporting with Silva) seems to fit the bill, but he is an excellent short passer, rather than the deep lying playmaker
- winger - This seems dependant on Bolasie and Lookman, but varying names are linked. I'd rather we keep Lookman.

Patience blues, we don't need to fit all the pieces of the jigsaw together this summer, we can slowly build and add one or two pieces a year, and if we buy young, and develop from within, this is the perfect strategy. Let's get it right, not get it fast.

Brian Porter
111 Posted 21/07/2018 at 10:00:46
What annoys me most about the Lookman issue and people saying he wants to leave etc etc, is that the only person who has actually said that is the RB Leipzig manager, who we can hardly expect to say anything else can we?

Lookman hasn't publicly said he wants to leave, nor has his agent and in this day and age it would be odds-on his agent doing or saying something to engineer a move if his client had told him that's what he wanted.

He is tied to us by a long-term contract so we are under no obligation to either listen to offers from Leipzig or anyone else and we have even less reason to agree to a move if Lookman did request one.

Everton should grow a pair for once, tell Leipzig to do one, he's not for sale, and tell Lookman he's part of the first team squad and if he hopes to one day play for England, or one of the 'big' teams in Europe or elsewhere, he needs to buckle down and let his football do his talking for him. Time to stand up for ourselves and not be a rubbing rag for every team that comes sniffing round our players.

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