Martina joins Stoke on loan

As we got him on a free, I am surprised that we did not just let him go on a free. Probably he would have demanded a 2-3 year contract and Stoke not ready to commit so hopefully they want to keep him for 2019-20 and then that is sorted. The alternative being that Stoke not prepared to pay him what we were last year so we will have to subsidise his wages for at least 12 months.

I too, fail to understand why we didn't either let him go on a free, or at least get a small fee for him, say £1-2M.

Why would he do what's in the best interest for us? He has a contract and understandably expects to get paid every penny of it. Stoke would never pay him what he's currently earning with us. At least we're getting a portion of his wage off the books.

He got a lot of abuse but tried hard under difficult circumstances. It's worth noting that he didn't really let us down from a defensive point of view. He was certainly no worse than anybody else.

However nobody else was willing to take on the role and if the rest of the team gave half the effort and commitment that Cuco gave we would have been a far better side. A lot of less and more talented players are still here and need to look in the mirror.

Nowhere near as bad as portrayed by some and certainly was far, FAR from being the worst player, in ability or effort, who pulled on a blue shirt last year.

(As for Martina, he was never a discredit to the shirt the way that Williams and Mirallas were. No reason not to wish him well.)

He only cost us wages, which he earned, and I hope he enjoys several more years of being able to provide good football.

As an aside, Mike Gaynes, did you write the baseball quote about
wanting a reporter named Schmuck to interview J.J. Putz? If so, my hat is off to you, sir.

Quite a window so far and we're not done yet. Bolasie, Niasse and Besic also possibles to go before the end of the month.

That would me some heck of a squad rotation in one window! Add the fact Tosun and Walcott only joined in January, we'll have practically a new side on the pitch in a month or so.

Niasse?! No chance buddy, that would leave just one senior striker. Please don't say Calvert-Lewin as he's not Premier League ready yet if at all. Niasse won't be going anywhere till at least the summer, Silva likes him, just like a lot of fans still think he's a good alternative from off the bench.

I'd rather have an average player giving 100% than a talented player giving 10% like most of our team last season.

Ramirez might be loaned out before the end of the window or sold. think if he gets 1 or 2 goals he might start to find his feet.

I love Niasse by the way always trying, never moaning. Respect.

Yes, that's my line. It's from 15 years ago. I was a regular contributor to a sports humor column in the San Francisco Chronicle.

Stuff really does live forever on the internet, doesn't it?

I'd also loan out Kenny and keep Cuco in reserve. Hey ho.

That's one of the reason why this loan happens.

In theory yes Kenny would develop better by playing every week out on loan instead of sitting on the bench.

Kenny will develop more battling for a first team position, training week in week out with the first team, with Silva and co, with Coleman. It is down to his attitude; if he has the right one, he'll look to push himself in the belief he can overtake Coleman. Coleman will be 30 soon, there is no reason Kenny shouldn't be aiming to overtake him. If he is good enough, he will.

Much better him staying here and fighting for game time, looking to prove himself when his chance arises, than going to a championship with poorer facilities, poor training sessions or poorer teammates. Same for Baningime, Dowell, Calvert-Lewin and all youngsters in and around the first team.

It was in a humerous sports quotes book I borrowed from my brother a few years ago. I actually copied the quote but never thought I would speak to (correspond with) it's author. I remember Putz because he was the reason that my Reds acquired Guardado, who was magnificent for just about a month before his arm exploded.

Martina is not good enough now and at his age he is unlikely to improve.

Good luck to him though.

Can"t interest them in Phil Jagielka as well, can we? :P

I didn't think he was that bad a right back, I would have preferred to see Kenny get more time when Cuco was playing right back, but I was not appalled by his performances. However I hope he makes it a permanent move for his sake.

I actually think the move will do him good, he can get away from a place where he has become somewhat unfairly labelled a 'clown' and made out to be incompetent by some, and having played (reasonably well) in some chaotic times and under chaotic management, largely on the wrong foot.

Good luck, Cuco.

I've read too much crap from people criticising his attacking play as well. In the Under-20 World Cup, he was England's best player. Not because he put in lots of great tackles, but because he flew down the right wing and was very creative. He is also like this for the U23s.

Sure, it's yet to translate to the first team, but being in and around the players, training with them and having a chance to perfect his attacking qualities in training can only benefit him long term. Sure, if he doesn't play a game for the next 12 months, then his development will have started to stall, and we can call for a loan.

I expect big things from Kenny. He has the right attitude to deliver. It's good to know he is ready and waiting in case we need him.

I think he will do well at Stoke.

Kenny has everything about him to be Coleman's long-term successor and I agree with those above who think he is best served getting some cup games and training under Silva than slogging it out in the Championship like Robinson (apologies to Mike Gaynes but just think Kenny is much further along in his development).

In a game full of mercs he's a player with less talent than a lot but more enthusiasm than most.

Good luck at Stoke, Cuco.

Best of luck to him. I don't really like the, "not good enough" comments, as anyone who puts in the effort in a Blue shirt should be somewhat appreciated?

But in this case, that comment applies. We need better players, better calibre than Cuco.

Played out of position most of the time and I've never once seen him hide. Can't say that about the rest of the crap he signed.

I won't be joining in the denigration of Martina. Nowhere close to being our worst performer last season.

This is the best move for everyone.

He is part of the first-team squad, trains with them, gets to take in all the tactical talk and strategic nuances Silva is trying to coach... but there is nothing that comes close to actually playing the game. I mean the real game, in front of Premier League crowds... not training kickabouts at Finch Farm. Yet he was not on the bench last week.

Now, despite The Cull, we do still have a remakarbly bloated first-team squad. The Official Website appears to have updated what they call the First Team, and it includes 34 players (excluding the 8 listed as out on season-long loans), while we have in mind Silva's target of 25 to 28 players as a more manageable size.

What still puzzles me is that Kenny simply won't get a game while Coleman is fit. He's not the only one, but why doesn't he play for the U23s in order to keep match-fit? Or am I sucked in by the nostalgic thought that the Reserves of old still exist, albeit in that altered form, and their purpose is to keep a pool of players at the peak of match-fitness, ever-ready to step in in case of injury or suspension?

I guess the answer is in the full name of the U23s, which is nowadays a Development Squad — it is no longer The Reserves... hasn't been since 2012. To expect Jonjoe Kenny — or any of the others who have finally made it into a Premier League first-team squad — to take a backward downward step and play in the U23s in order to keep match-fit? No, it simply ain't happening.

He played a big part for the first team in what was his breakthrough last season... until the last 10 games. He only made the bench (unused) for the last 2 games.

Therefore, I am sure that, should they feel Kenny is good enough, they will give him minutes on the pitch – sub appearences, the occasional start when resting Coleman. If he does get a chance, like any young player, he will have to take it, that is what top players do.

It does seem though that the old school thinking of playing in the stiffs 1st team capable players who are not in the starting XI is a thing of the past.

Maybe training methods from those days are so advanced that in-house daily and weekly match time training is superior to giving such players a run out with the kids.

At the end he even had some good crosses made with his left foot!

So good luck to Cuco Martina, and I will not think unkindly of him for his spell at Everton!

I think he could have been a good player for us if he hadn't have got the injury that finished him so early on. I had pretty high hopes for him. Never understood what Howard Kendall was doing giving West Ham money and Unsworth for him though.

Williamson was the best out of the players we brought in that summer. He was defo a step up from Oster, Farrelly, Cleland and Tony Thomas. That's not saying too much, mind. It's no wonder we nearly went down that season with those kinds of players.

Going back to Martina, I don't know why we couldn't just give him a free transfer. He didn't cost us anything. Are we expecting to get a fee for him next summer? Or are Stoke too dubious to give him a proper contract?

On the other hand, it would appear I have to sue somebody.

A team wanting promotion or needing low-cost cover at the bottom of the Premier League may well be prepared to pay a permanent fee of ٠m that Brands wants.

I am hoping Brands can continue re-shaping the squad. Future transfer fees for Bolasie, Besic, Mirallas, Vlasic, Martina, Sandro might just well pay for a Gomes or Zouma. If we can get ٥m for Oviedo and Gibson, anything is possible...

Good luck to the lad at Stoke.

Was he awful? Let's be fair, he was just poor. But he didn't sign or pick himself. Good luck to him.

Not a great start by the Potters and having Williams and Martina manning the barricades could be something of a liability.

Paul, that must surely relate to the innocuous-seeming foot injury that finished his Everton and then football career. He made about 15 appearances for Everton which is hardly enough to be considered one of the worst signings ever, not when he was actually quite promising. But the injury finished him.

My understanding was he got a very bad injury while at West Ham and his development got stalled. As a youth, he was earmarked for top honours and Everton's ١ million fee was an acknowledgement of future potential. He was an expensive punt, and that is possibly why Howard was so disappointed.

Some players just have terrible luck. Paul Lake, Ian Durrant and Williamson never fulfilled their potential and have to live with it. In that regard, football can be so cruel.

Evertonians cherish derby victories and I can still almost feel the warmth of that Autumn sun when the Blue Boys battered the Spice Girls.