Fixture clash for home ties in Carabao Cup

Friday, 7 September, 2018 55comments  |  Jump to last

Everton and Liverpool have both been drawn at home in the Third Round of the Carabao Cup, creating a fixture conflict.

Everton and Chelsea (Liverpool's opponents) play televised games the Sunday before, and both want the Wednesday night slot rather than the Tuesday. But policing and transport issues make it impossible for them to play at Goodison and Anfield on the same evening.

Everton were drawn to play against Southampton at Goodison Park on either Tuesday 25 or Wednesday 26 September, but are in action on Sunday, 23 September, against Arsenal, in a fixture screened by Sky Sports.

While Liverpool are willing to play their tie against Chelsea on either September 25 or 26, the situation is complicated for their visiting opponents, who have a televised fixture against West Ham the previous Sunday. Chelsea want the Liverpool match played on Wednesday.

The clubs involved are 'holding talks' but you know how this one ends, with Everton getting the short end of the stick.

» Read the full article at The Telegraph

Reader Comments (55)

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Michael Kenrick
1 Posted 07/09/2018 at 18:02:30
The Telegraph story doesn't address the obvious solution — to move the Everton vs Southampton game to the following week.

Why would that not be possible?

Brian Wilkinson
2 Posted 07/09/2018 at 19:04:49
Great idea Mike, all though this makes sense, I expect us to get the shitty end of the stick and play on the Tuesday, rather than logic moving it back a week.
Barry McNally
3 Posted 07/09/2018 at 19:36:12
Everton want to play on the 26th, RS want to play on the 25th, Chelsea PFO.
Brian Cleveland
4 Posted 07/09/2018 at 19:38:47
Wasn't that an obvious question? As it wasn't mentioned, I assumed there must be some overwhelming reason why not... Such as worldwide broadcast rights for our game that will be watched by 20 billion people across the globe...
Will Mabon
5 Posted 07/09/2018 at 21:26:03
"But policing and transport issues make it impossible for them to play at Goodison and Anfield on the same evening."

"Issues" ... don't ya just love 'em? The phenomenon of recent decades, just came drifting down out of the ether, preventing what happened often in the past, when we just went ahead and did it.

Remember those FA Cup tie days when both were drawn at home, and each set of fans could hear if the other team scored. Hell, it was dangerous back then...

Peter Mills
6 Posted 07/09/2018 at 21:51:43
Come on Will #5. I was at two home FA Cup replays against Burnley and Wolves, plus the subsequent derby match watched by 65,000 people at Goodison and 40,000 on-screen at Anfield, in 1967.

It WAS dangerous back then. People were at severe risk on those evenings, and people died elsewhere before the situation changed. It’s not something we want to go back to.

Will Mabon
7 Posted 07/09/2018 at 23:05:50
We have completely different memories, Peter. It was commonplace for more than one game to take place in big cities simultaneously. I remember nothing from the time saying there was a problem. I do know there were matches played together, a little later than you cite in '67, I remember no more trouble than harder parking.

Now if we're talking about trying to do what we did then with half the resources of yesteryear and trying to cut the "Costs" too, then that might put a different slant on things.

What do you mean by "Severe risk"?

Peter Mills
8 Posted 08/09/2018 at 09:19:37
Hi Will (#7).

The specific “severe risk” I was referring to was the crush outside the ground prior to kick-off for the replays against Burnley and Wolves. Without exaggeration, as an 11-year-old boy, I travelled half the length of Bullens Road without my feet touching the ground. It was exhilarating and scary at the same time, but I knew that if I didn't remain upright I was going to be in severe trouble.

The difficulties for the subsequent derby match were more around traffic, in days when there were far fewer cars than there are now. It was chaos that night. Traffic congestion leads to impatience which leads to foolish actions. It also leads to late arrival at the stadium which leads to crushing.

I'm sorry, but the days “when we just did it” have, fortunately, gone. It was a “just do it” attitude that led to people being allowed back up an Ibrox staircase to meet hundreds coming down it. It was “just do it” that led to a game at Bradford going ahead with piles of rubbish under a timber stand. And “just do it” could easily have been the words of command uttered to open gates at Hillsborough.

I'll get off my soap box now, but I think it is prudent not to allow two matches on the same evening.

Niall McIlhone
9 Posted 08/09/2018 at 09:29:56
We should play the Saints at Prenton Park same night as the RS match — it would be great fun piling on the ferry and Tranmere Rovers would earn a few bob out of it.
Jim Bennings
10 Posted 08/09/2018 at 10:52:03
Just play the game and get on with it.

Jesus Christ — it's a game of football — not a manned mission to Mars!

Alan J Thompson
11 Posted 08/09/2018 at 11:36:58
Settle it in the time honoured way, flip a coin.
Amit Vithlani
12 Posted 08/09/2018 at 11:41:36
Jim – ordinarily I would agree. But I am so desperate for us to win a pot I hope the club takes every opportunity to maximise its chances of going through.

I looked at the performance of the players who played against both Rotherham and Huddersfield and came to the conclusion that sadly our squad has players not fit enough to cope with midweek & weekend games!

Jim Bennings
13 Posted 08/09/2018 at 11:48:56

I agree in that sense, I'm just thinking they need to pick the same team roughly (maybe Bernard comes in for the Southampton game for example... and Kenny – just two examples).

But really it's stil pretty early season, the preparations are a great idea but tiredness shouldn't really be a massive factor in September.

Micky Norman
14 Posted 08/09/2018 at 17:25:35
Those were the days when there were enough coppers around to cope with two matches. And trains/buses. And boozers.
Will Mabon
15 Posted 08/09/2018 at 17:58:01
As I said, Peter, different memories/experiences. The first both-at-home times I remember were in the 70s and I saw no problems. Daytime only (I think).

Of course I've seen and been in the kind of thing you're describing in the past, just never at Goodison so far. I'm not advocating unthinking gung-ho but it seems that generally, the slant is first more why we can't do things now, rather than how we can. Progress?

Anyway, it won't be happening – we'll just have to see how we come out of the rearranged fixtures...

Peter Mills
16 Posted 08/09/2018 at 19:31:36
Fair comment Will. I know from what you post on here that you are not daft! I am possibly particularly sensitive to such issues at the moment, my grandsons are approaching an age when they may be attending, I just want them to be absolutely safe when they do so.
Tony Abrahams
17 Posted 08/09/2018 at 20:16:30
Niall @9, did you not read how big our attendance was for the last round?
Jim Bennings
18 Posted 09/09/2018 at 09:50:22
Would it be causing too much trouble to suggest a rule in situations like this where the first match drawn out of the hat get the choice of date?

I think it’s about as fair as can be.

Simon R Smith
19 Posted 09/09/2018 at 13:16:13
Alan (#11), surely rock, scissors, paper – best of 3 televised is the way to settle it!

Imagine the build-up Sky could give it, not to mention all the in-depth analysis and celebrity spin-offs they could do.

Hold on, picks up the phone: "Hello, is that Sky TV? I've a brilliant new idea for a game show!"

Colin Gee
20 Posted 09/09/2018 at 13:29:54
There's an easy solution to this, Everton as the Senior Club in the city gets to choose which day we play on. The Bastard Offspring can then play on the Tuesday.
Dave Abrahams
21 Posted 09/09/2018 at 13:31:44
Jim (18), how about going in alphabetical order, then they would always have to have second choice.
Rob Halligan
22 Posted 09/09/2018 at 13:50:41
Switch their game down to Stamford bridge. Pointless having thousands of RS and Chelsea fans travelling up the M1 and M6 together. Will also save the bastards a few bob.

Problem solved!!

Steve Brown
23 Posted 09/09/2018 at 15:06:54
Rob (#22), spot on. Or better yet switch to Milton Keynes so the two sets of supporters can catch the bus.
John G Davies
24 Posted 09/09/2018 at 15:11:06
Stand your ground Mr Moshiri. We are used to backing down to the devils club at board level. No more, hopefully.
Alan J Thompson
25 Posted 09/09/2018 at 16:17:50
Simon (#19); and which of those three has the head of Her Majesty on it?
David Hallwood
26 Posted 09/09/2018 at 20:28:36
Gents, correct me if I'm wrong but I cannot recall the teams playing at home on the same day EVER.
John Keating
27 Posted 09/09/2018 at 21:14:38
I'm sure we both played at home in 1966.

Could have been the 3rd round when we beat Sunderland 3-0

Martin Nicholls
28 Posted 09/09/2018 at 21:25:51
Rob #22 - flights into Heathrow from Oslo and the like are also likely to be cheaper than them flying into Speke!

John #27 - correct and by coincidence they played Chelsea (and lost!)

Lenny Jameson
29 Posted 09/09/2018 at 21:40:45
Mr Keating, you are correct. Funnily enough, they played Chelsea that day.

We kicked off half an hour before them and after beating Sunderland 3-0, the famous Freddie Armstrong led a battalion of Evertonians over the park and entered the Anfield Road end to cheer Chelsea on to a 2-1 victory.
Here's hoping for a similar outcome!!

John Keating
30 Posted 09/09/2018 at 23:00:17
Thanks, Martin, I thought we were both at home.

I seem to remember walking past the Park with all the Blues to the ground but no RS about. Possibly they kicked off earlier as I am sure we kicked off at 3pm.

Rob Halligan
31 Posted 09/09/2018 at 23:11:12
I remember when we played Arsenal in the FA Cup Third Round at home and the RS also played at home on the same day back in the 80s. After some research, they played Altrincham and won 5-0. We beat Arsenal 2-0. It was on 3rd January 1981.

I clearly remember there was hundreds of RS fans left their game early and came over to Goodison, or nearby anyway, for the usual bit of bovver that was the norm back in the 70s and 80s. Everton and Liverpool fans both joined forces and followed the Arsenal fans all the way back to Lime Street. About halfway down Scottie Road, it all kicked off good style.

As far as I can remember, this may have been the last time we both played at home on the same day.

Martin Nicholls
32 Posted 10/09/2018 at 07:42:54
Rob #31 – just did a bit of research myself and you're right on all stats apart from rs score which apparently was 4-1. We beat them 2-1 in next round.
Rob Halligan
33 Posted 10/09/2018 at 07:46:23
Correct Martin. Their score was 4-1. FFS, I even looked at that and still put 5-0. Few too many sherberts last night.
Lenny Kingman
34 Posted 10/09/2018 at 09:12:39
#8 Peter

I was at those games against Wolves and Burnley. I was around the same age as you, and like you was carried along in a similar fashion on the other side on Goodison road. A tidal wave cresting blue in the murk of a winter's evening.

Just to add the Wolves tie was bedlam around the turnstiles and in fact I was locked out as the house (over) full message went out. With thousands still in the streets.

I somehow don't think that will happen in the League cup tie against the Saints! Or ever again for that matter.

Dave Abrahams
35 Posted 10/09/2018 at 09:20:15
David (26), I'm going back a bit but in 1953 Everton beat Man Utd (2-1) and Liverpool played WBA on the same day. Why that day stands out is because over 100,000 watched the two games. Over76,000 at Goodison and 28,000-plus at Anfield.

The game at Goodison was memorable for the headed goal by Davie Hickson, the winner. Davie had gone off with a bad cut to his head and had it stitched up, when he headed the winning goal he opened up the stitches and finished the game with blood all over him.

Sorry to go on about Davie, but he was my idol and I like to bring him alive now and again.

Tamhas Woods
36 Posted 10/09/2018 at 10:56:53
Read Andy Nicholls's book "Scally" – he recalls a time Everton and Liverpool played at home against Boro and Derby in the FA Cup at the same time.

Then the crews of all four had a massive free-for-all ruck in Stanley Park.

Rick Tarleton
37 Posted 10/09/2018 at 11:58:56
1961-62, Everton played King's Lynn at Goodison Park in the FA Cup Third Round, Liverpool played Chelsea at Anfield. Memory tells me the combined gate was over 80,000.
Eddie Dunn
38 Posted 10/09/2018 at 12:01:32
I remember us having a cup game in the depths of winter in the late seventies. Can't remember who we beat but Liverpool's game at Stoke was called off quite late, so some of them went over to Tranmere, who were hosting Watford.

I was getting off the bus from Goodison to Pier Head to be confronted by a couple of hundred RS who had been given a torrid time by the Tranmere boys. I got off the bus with my mate but most of the other Blues stayed on. The Reds must have thought twice looking at my Docs and Crombie!

Niall McIlhone
39 Posted 10/09/2018 at 12:13:57
Tony@17, yeah, we got over 30,00o, I was thinking more of spreading the funds a bit to help Rovers out? I can't see too many Southampton fans coming up, and with modern policing being what it is, there seems no way both teams can play in Liverpool on the same night.

Prenton Park holds just over 16,500. Spurs are playing at Stadium MK for their Carabao Cup tie, admittedly, that ground has a more generous 30,000 or so capacity.

Dave Abrahams
40 Posted 10/09/2018 at 12:51:53
Tamhas (36), Tamhas, I think that was the season we met Liverpool in the semi-final at Maine Road when we thought we had won, only to be robbed by Clive Thomas.
Rob Halligan
42 Posted 10/09/2018 at 13:03:42
Southampton game has now been confirmed as being played on Tuesday 2 October. 7:45pm kick off.
Karl Masters
43 Posted 10/09/2018 at 13:04:47
Hooligans running amok in FA Cup games 1977, 1980 and 1981 led to Police insisting that it never happen again.

The next time we were drawn at home simultaneously was February 1983 and Liverpool switched to the Sunday for their game against Brighton, who brought 5,000 travelling supporters. Everton meanwhile played Spurs on the Saturday (winners in the two previous seasons) who brought 7,000 travelling fans. You can imagine trying to control two 40,000 plus crowds with 12,000 visiting fans would have caused a lot of problems.

The dye was set back then 35 years ago and seems fair enough to me.

Someone will lose out just toss a coin, the only fair way.

Tony Abrahams
44 Posted 10/09/2018 at 13:27:37
I agree with you about maybe helping Tranmere out Niall, but not in the way that you suggest mate.

Dave, when Hickson got the winner, wasn’t Everton, in the second division then, Whilst our horrible neighbours, were in the division above?

Hurry up and get on board “Mr Usmanov” because it’s about time the blue Phoenix rose again, and showed all’s these “Johnny come lately’s” how big a club, that Everton really is.

Dave Abrahams
45 Posted 10/09/2018 at 13:35:30
Tony (44), yes that was the position of the two clubs, then
twelve months later we were on our way back to first
division and those horrible bastards were on there down
to the second division where they would stay for eight,
really wonderful, seasons.
Niall McIlhone
46 Posted 10/09/2018 at 14:05:56
Ah well, the game is on Tuesday now so debate over, but I would like to see more support for TRFC from both clubs, Tony. No small number of players have made the trip across the water over the years, none greater than Dixie himself.

I just think it's important to keep football alive and well in Birkenhead, Everton FC have spunked tens of millions on bog average players in recent years, we and LFC could do more to spread the wealth a bit.

John G Davies
47 Posted 10/09/2018 at 14:10:48
"those horrible bastards"

Tremendous Dave.

Phil Bellis
48 Posted 10/09/2018 at 14:38:01
Well remembered, Lenny and John.

I was one of Big Fred's battalion; it was great fun to pour scorn on the cup holders.

Dave Abrahams
49 Posted 10/09/2018 at 15:04:09
Lenny (29), thanks for bringing back memories of Big Freddie Armstrong, a lovely gentle giant of a man, who hated Liverpool with a (lovely) passion. Freddie would do anyone a favour, even Liverpudlians if he took to them.

Rest in peace, big man.

John G Davies
50 Posted 10/09/2018 at 15:54:04
A lovely man Dave.
Even when he had his leg off he never missed.
Some great faces from years gone by at his funeral.
Lenny Jameson
51 Posted 10/09/2018 at 16:13:55
Mr Abraham's (49) and Mr Davies (50).

You're so right. Freddie was an absolute diamond. In all the years I knew him, I never met a single person who didn't like him. He was a pleasure to know and will never be forgotten.

Dave Abrahams
52 Posted 10/09/2018 at 16:17:03
John G (50), yes me and Tony went to St Georges to see Freddie off. We couldn't get inside the church, had to listen to the sermon and tributes in the lobby of the church. Bob Pendleton, the scout who brought Wayne Rooney to the club, was there on a Zimmer frame, showed how well Freddie was respected.
Franny Porter
54 Posted 10/09/2018 at 16:31:08
It amazes me the attitude of some match goers.

The people saying "just play the same night", perhaps the police actually know what they are talking about and don't want four teams in the city as there are far too many dickhead match goers nowadays who enjoy a bit of trouble.

This has been going on for some time now and the violence is creeping back. You should be able to take your kids the game without worrying about things like this.

People need to wise up, its not 1960 or even 1980 anymore when you would struggle to stay on your feet as a kid. Fucking dangerous and stupid.

Gerard McKean
55 Posted 10/09/2018 at 17:22:16
I've only picked up via this thread that Freddie has passed away and I'm sorry I did not hear in time to go and pay my respects to a great Evertonian. Freddie was a big man in every way, a genuinely good bloke, and if you loved Everton, Freddie accepted you as a friend.

I heard that shortly after having his leg amputated he managed to "escape" from hospital to get to the match and was returned afterwards by his "accomplices" with blood all over the show! As a result of that and even though there is always more demand than places, a couple of the guys working at Everton at that time made sure that Freddie got a disabled spot as often as possible before he even made a formal application. They were decent men who recognised another good man, and they preferred to try unobtrusively to do the right thing than to see their faces in some spurious glossy brochure.

John G Davies
56 Posted 10/09/2018 at 18:26:20
Last away game I saw Freddie was Palace. Anyone who has been there knows how difficult it is to get to. There was Freddie sitting in the disabled section. One of the great Evertonians.
Lenny Jameson
57 Posted 10/09/2018 at 20:14:12
In the 70s, we were all outside the Devonshire Arms one Saturday morning, waiting for Freddie's Tours coach to turn up for some away game.

Freddie was telling a story about something that had happened the previous night when a tiny little lady walked up behind him, smacked him round the back of his head with her handbag and said, "Is that you I can hear swearing, Frederick?"

While we were all doubled up in hysterics at such a sight, Freddie was cowering in the corner saying, "Yes, mam. Sorry, mam."

Great days.

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