Marco Silva failing to live up to 'mini Mourinho' tag at Everton

Monday, 24 September, 2018 75comments  |  Jump to last

Whilst it's obviously too early in Marco Silva's fledgling Everton career to make rash judgements, some fans and this feature in The National have picked up one worrying trend that still shows no sign of improvement.

Richard Jolly observes that Silva's start at Everton is increasingly unMourinholike. He has made the Merseysiders far more watchable than they were under Sam Allardyce. They have been much better between the two penalty boxes. They are yet to convince inside them.

The image of a technocrat suggests organisational prowess but, if Mourinho cherishes control, Silva's Everton have offered more anarchy. Everton wanted someone who would be the opposite of Allardyce, but Silva has sacrificed some of his sacked predecessor's strengths. Thus far, Everton have veered from one extreme to another.

» Read the full article at The National


Reader Comments (75)

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James Marshall
1 Posted 24/09/2018 at 12:50:57
Silva's managerial record in the Premier League by numbers:

Games: 48
Win %: 29.1
Scored: 61
Conceded: 91
Points per game: 1.1

Ouch. Shite.

Steve Ferns
2 Posted 24/09/2018 at 13:33:47
What about the other 223 games?

Games: 223
Won: 127
Win ratio: 57%
Scored: 406
Conceded: 222
Points per Game: 1.92

Michael Lynch
3 Posted 24/09/2018 at 13:52:19
We can talk about Silva's stats all we like – though I would tend to argue that the only ones that really mean anything to us as a club are the Premier League stats – but our eyes don't deceive us.

I watched us push four up front in a line when we were 2-1 up against Southampton, and it was exhilarating stuff. But, with that style comes the high risk of chucking away leads as we have done this season, and being mugged by teams, as we have been this season.

Personally, I'd rather watch Silva's style and end up with nothing than watch Koeman's, Martinez's, or Allardyce's style and end up with nothing. But I'm under no illusions. Silva won't win anything playing his style with the players we have in our squad. Unless he's given three years and hundreds of millions of pounds, we're going to have to accept some high scoring years of mid-table finishes. And when I say high-scoring, I mean the opposition as well as (hopefully) us.

I'd like to know how many clean sheets a Marco Silva managed side has managed to keep in his Premier League career. Can't be more than half-a-dozen surely? Not even that?

Tony Abrahams
4 Posted 24/09/2018 at 14:02:39
Good post that, Michael, and its made me think how inexperienced Marco Silva, actually his when it comes to English football.

Not going over old ground, it's been done to death, but he could be good for Everton, or he could be bad for Everton, and only time will tell?

Emery said he was thinking of taking off an attacker yesterday, just before Lacozette scored a worldy, because of Everton's attacking play, but even though it's a long time since I've heard a manager of a top team say that, football is also about not conceding, and this is a big concern for us right now.

Brian Murray
5 Posted 24/09/2018 at 17:33:04
The basic setting up and art of defending seems a bit too much for Silva at the moment. We have a top scout and an owner who wants to be a winner.

If Silva is the missing piece, well he'd better be stepping up pronto. The next Drogba is out there somewhere and I'm sure Marcel will unearth him in January.

Dave Ganley
6 Posted 24/09/2018 at 19:33:13
Very lazy article so early into the season.

People forget how awful the defence was under Allardyce. We lost the corresponding fixture last season 5-1, so why the negativity from The National? It's also lazy journalism to compare to Martinez too.

For a start Silva recognises we have issues with defence whereby Martinez just didn't care. It's very early days to make any kind of opinion about Silva.

It's a definite improvement under him this season, whether he can sort the defence out remains to be seen. He is going the right way judging by his early buys, and he has Keane looking like a defender too now.

Ridiculous article, who calls him mini-Mourhino anyway? The National? Couldn't give a flying fig what they think anyway.

Steve Ferns
7 Posted 24/09/2018 at 19:35:39
Seen plenty of these. I fail to see how you can give an expert opinion on someone when you've never seen him in a full season in a job.

I'm repeating myself, but Silva at Estoril was a counter-attacking manager. Silva at Olympiacos was again a counter-attacking manager. So much so that his captain joked that Silva almost wanted them to give the ball to opposition just so they can counter them. The inference being that Olympiacos were devastating on the break (see their victory at Arsenal), but as the perennially dominant side in Greece, everyone sat back and they couldn't really play counter-attacking football.

At Sporting, Silva played similar to how he is with Everton, only there was a single Defensive midfielder (William Carvalho) with two attacking midfielders (Leicester's Adrien Silva and Joao Mario (at West Ham last season)). Up front he had a big unit in Islam Slimani, who is mobile, but not the quickest. On the wings were Nani (yes the one from Man Utd) and André Carillo (who Silva took to Watford on loan from Benfica).

Sporting only conceded 2 or more goals four times that season:
1. Shocked by Vitoria 3-0 away
2. 4-2 win over Maritimo
3. 4-2 win over Rio Ave
4. 3-0 defeat at Porto

So, you'll all say it's a 3 team league, so Silva's results against the big two:
1. 1-1 away to Benfica
2. 1-1 home to Porto
3. 1-1 home to Benfica
4. 3-0 defeat away to Porto

Perhaps a sign of things to come from that season is their results in the Champions League that season:

1. 1-1 draw away to Maribor
2. 0-1 defeat at home to Chelsea
3. 4-3 defeat away at Schalke - a rip-roaring game where Sporting lost in the 94th minute on a penalty after fighting back from 3-1 down with 26 minutes left.
4. 4-2 victory at home over Schalke - another riproaring game
5. 3-1 victory at home over Maribor
6. 3-1 defeat at Stamford Bridge, where Sporting where 2-0 down after 16 minutes.

So in the 4 games against higher quality Champions League opposition, Silva conceded 10 goals.

The next season, this time with Olympiacos, he got smashed for 3 and 4 without reply against Pep Guardiola's Bayern. Arsenal won 3-0 in Greece to take revenge for the 3-2 defeat in the Emirates, so 12 goals in 4 games. If the Greeks had drawn that game, they'd have clinched second in the group though. They did beat Zagreb home and away, which Arsenal failed to do.

What I think this shows is that Silva can keep plenty of clean sheets when he has one of the league's better sides. When he comes up against better sides, he is capable of pulling off a shock or two, but when it fails, it fails badly.

Personally a loss is a loss from me. I'd rather go down swinging, than feebly like Moyes's Everton did.

I just wish these "expert commentators" looked at the full picture instead of always going on about two half seasons as if that tells them all they need to know.

Clive Mitchell
8 Posted 24/09/2018 at 19:47:13
Steve, great post(s) – and more generally, give the man a chance, fellas!
Duncan McDine
9 Posted 24/09/2018 at 19:50:53
Steve Ferns – great post. I share your opinion that it's better to give it a proper good go and get spanked than not have a single shot for several games on the trot and still get spanked.

For me, we need a big improvement in 3 or 4 positions down the spine of the team before we'll be a proper team – regardless of who the manager is.

Michael Lynch
10 Posted 24/09/2018 at 19:59:46
He's conceding at almost 2 a game in the UK. I couldn't give a flying one about how Estoril spanked Athletico Bumbag, or Sporting only conceded two against Real Dildo, his teams have conceded 91 goals in 48 games here in the Premier League. As I've said, I'm happy to watch exhilarating football, rather than the dross served up by Koeman, Unsworth, and Allardyce last season but the fact is, as the quoted article says, we are shit in both penalty boxes at the moment.

The fact is, his teams haven't kept clean sheets in the Premier League. That's not to say they won't, but at Hull, Watford and here at Everton, his teams concede in almost every single game. So we have to score a lot of goals to win games.

Without a decent striker, we're going to struggle. Hence, we're probably all going to have to make do with a few fun games and a mid-table finish this season. And in the summer, we need to sign a couple of strikers.

Danny Broderick
11 Posted 24/09/2018 at 20:33:00
It’s a season of transition. I would rather finish 12th by having a go, than 8th by snatching undeserved wins and barely having a shot on target in most matches.

Let’s give him some time. Alex Ferguson and Howard Kendall needed time after all...

John Pierce
12 Posted 24/09/2018 at 20:38:52
Steve, you are ‘over egging the pudding. Transition is fine, improvement is there but defensively against gentle opponents save for Arsenal, very poor. Don't excuse that by saying I'd rather lose going down swinging.

Now the reason it goes wrong is in part he leaves defenders 1 v 1, or 2 v 2. So individually you have to be on it. Fleet of foot, dominant and emphasis on physical prowess.

Sure leniency can be applied here as there nothing settled about our back four. However he has known that from day one so to expose Jagielka, Keane & Holgate especially to defending they suck at is negligent.

If he had applied some sense and limited our exposure at points during games I could see things panning out more positively. He hasn't managed in game particularly well for my money.

The pressure on the next 4 games is huge, I hope he applies some defensive balance to our system, or we aren't going anywhere.

Paul Kossoff
13 Posted 24/09/2018 at 20:50:45
According to the press, some players at Everton we not happy with the intensity of Silva's training and preparation for matches. Poor things, maybe they want more time off.
Phillip Warrington
14 Posted 24/09/2018 at 21:54:16
If he walks, does that mean we can get compensation from Watford for their harassment over being harassed about Silva?
John Raftery
15 Posted 25/09/2018 at 20:16:20
We look better between the two penalty areas because we have a player who has made us look better when he has been on the field. When Richarlison is in the team we carry a greater attacking threat operating with pace and skill. His presence has helped other players raise their level. Without him apart from a twenty minute spell at Bournemouth we have largely been every bit as poor as we were at any time last season. As with any manager Silva needs quality players. He is not a miracle worker. At present he does not have enough of them.
Peter Gorman
16 Posted 25/09/2018 at 20:18:31
" Everton wanted someone who would be the opposite of Allardyce, but Silva has sacrificed some of his sacked predecessor's strengths."

I don't (really) want to turn this into yet another anti-Sam thread but what exactly were the man's 'strengths' other than sucking peace, hope and happiness out of the fans like some bloated dementor.

I think his perceived strength was defensive solidity; a myth blown out of the water with every wretched capitulation against the big boys with nary a shot on target.

Dan Brierley
17 Posted 25/09/2018 at 21:24:38
Allardyce managed to win 10, draw 8 and lose 6, and rack up 8 clean sheets. With a side who's confidence was totally shot.

We've injected a big sum of money into the squad, had the best opening fixtures in years, and yet managed to concede in every game, and win 1 out of 6.

I agree that the attacking style is definitely easier on the eye than under Allardyce, but the goals we are conceding, especially set pieces, are woeful. If getting tonked by the bottom team at home who also have a new manager doesn't send alarm bells ringing, then what does? I don't see Chelsea, Arsenal or United fans accepting mediocrity like we seem to do.

Richarlison and Digne have improved our overall play, which is expected for an outlay of 60 million. But defensively we've gone backwards, and Tosun, DCL, Sigurdsson & Gueye all seem to not fit into this playing system as they also look weaker. Walcott and Schneiderlin seem to have marginally improved.

I don't really see how anybody could say anything other than this is a very poor start considering the investment and fixtures we've had. The Fulham game has suddenly become a 'must win' if we are going to finish anywhere near 8th.

Lawrence Green
18 Posted 25/09/2018 at 21:31:08
Troy Deeney has given his opinion on Everton at Arsenal -

“He is a very, very good coach. But he puts a lot of onus on one v one defending,” Deeney told the Monday Night club on BBC Radio 5Live (September 24, 5pm).

“You can see how expansive they are against Arsenal. Going forward they are going to be good but you’re always going to be asking a centre-half to go one v one against somebody.

“There was a lot of times in the Arsenal game when Arsenal countered and it was two v two with people just running back.”

Colin Metcalfe
19 Posted 25/09/2018 at 21:50:34
Please for those of you praising Allardyce just stop !
Never felt so embarrassed to be an Evertonian when he was appointed even my own family were laughing how low we had fallen .

It will be a long time before this stain in our history is forgotten !

Jim Bennings
20 Posted 25/09/2018 at 21:51:47
It seems like Everton are forever in transition.

Silva I really hope stays here a long time and succeeds but we can’t keep saying every season that it’s a work in progress or transition.

Silva has had a very slow start with a meek looking fixture list but it seems we still can’t convert enough wins.

The fact that we lost to a mediocre looking Arsenal team pretty much sums up where we are, decent approach play but nothing at the end of it and defensively looking fragile as always.

It’s a huge ask for Silva to change the losers mentality at this club.

John Pickles
21 Posted 25/09/2018 at 22:01:07
Stability.

As long as we remain clear of a relegation scrap we need to give someone at least a couple of seasons to see what they can do.

If we were going to appoint a top manager we would have done so by now, so any replacement is just going to be gambling on another wannabe anyway.

Paul Birmingham
22 Posted 25/09/2018 at 22:07:29
Let's judge after a ¼ of the season and at Chrimbo.

Bar a miracle, the remake needs and will take this and next season. Patience and more patience will be needed, but the sense of eternal purgatory is hard to shrug off, as many of us have been here in this place, for 30 years.

But I believe in M&M and they will get it right.

Andy Crooks
23 Posted 25/09/2018 at 22:45:08
Well said, Colin @19. That really was an appalling blight on our club. I think who ever succeeded Allardyce needed time. I believe it is time for patience. That doesn't mean I can't see the flaws. It doesn't mean I accept mediocrity.

To anyone who says that those who can, with reservations, see improvement, are devoid of ambition I would ask the following:

How should my disapproval of our disappointing start be manifested. Rant on this site about Silva's failure after five games. Lament his appointment. Say that Calvert Lewin is a Championship player. Say that Davies is shite. Say that Tosun is shite. Okay, I'll do it and be an Evertonian who calls it as it is. Did someone actually say that Silva would be gone by Christmas? Fuck me, was that serious?

Danny Baily
24 Posted 25/09/2018 at 22:47:56
For as long as we're comfortably safe from relegation then I'd be willing to give him time. The Fulham match will tell us how comfortable we are.
Dan Davies
25 Posted 25/09/2018 at 22:50:19
We need a steady settled defence. Jags out. Baines out. Coleman injured, struggling or off form. Keane struggling because of this.

Zouma, Mina? Settling in. We need a whole new defence.

It's a fucking lottery!

Jonjoe Kenny and Mason Holgate don't stand a fucking chance.

Schneiderlin is shite.

Pickford struggling because of all that. Poor Gana!

But hey, let's target Sigurdsson and Tosun. Fucking joke!

Dave Lynch
26 Posted 25/09/2018 at 23:07:00
Let's not push the panic button eh.

If we want stability then we are going to have to stick with him, as loads have pointed out the team is in it's infancy and we have all known for a few seasons we have needed rebuilding.

We have stagnated under average management and piss poor ownership, IMO we will improve and vastly.

It may not be until next season but we have waited this long.

Tom Bowers
27 Posted 25/09/2018 at 23:19:05
I agree we have to give the guy more time. Losing at Arsenal isn't half as bad as losing at home to West Ham.

However, any defeat is disappointing and we don't want to see too many of them.

It will be up and down at least until January when he will, maybe, get the opportunity to assess and recruit if things are quite unacceptable by then.

We can criticize certain players at the moment but it is a work in process with new additions settling in and a couple more to come.

The second goal was a farce to be allowed and with VAR would have been disallowed and that effectively closed out the game after some decent play by Everton.

Ian Riley
28 Posted 25/09/2018 at 23:23:30
What do we do if we sack Silva? Back to Plan B? Bring Moyes back? Give the guy a chance. We have what we have. Get behind the team.

Change brings instability and this squad has had too much over the past two years. Players are not robots. Teams develop through time.

Kevin Prytherch
29 Posted 25/09/2018 at 23:32:12
Dan (17)
Take out the first 6 of Allardyces games where we had a combination of a new manager effect, relatively easy fixture list, Unsworths West Ham team and one game where Allardyce wasn’t even in the same country as the team..

Won 6
Drew 6
Lost 9.

Damned statistics - they can be manipulated to suit any argument!!

Simon Smith
30 Posted 25/09/2018 at 23:41:54
For me it's a case of goals bread confidence, and quite frankly we haven't got enough lethal players.

Don't get me wrong, some of our players will score goals, but without a Lukaku, playing expansive football against teams with a similar or better skill set will often end in defeat.

I'd take watching games like the Arsenal one over 99% of Sam's football, but it's a results business and in this league you need goalscorers to get them results.

Tosun, Calvert-Lewin, and Niasse are a world away from Arsenals strikers, even there worst striking option of Danny Walbeck is more suited to the prem than our trio.

We all know our squad is average or slightly above average for the league, we all know not many of our lads get into the top few and we all know that out of Silva's signings only Richarldson has been fit enough to play, and even he had a 3 game ban.

Let's see if Moshiri backs him in January, let's see if he spends wisely, and in-between then and now let's see if Bernard and Mina make a difference.

Yes, West Ham result was a joke, at the start we were ok going forward until we didn't put the ball in the net (hence the outcry for a striker), we couldn't defend but for me we had a whole makeshift back 4 out (Digne may be first choice but showed naievity in he left the young centre-halves exposed). So both ends we lacked a lot.

Huddersfield was piss poor management imo.

The points being dropped v Bournemouth was also piss poor in that the players had the game won only for Silva to let them down with his inactivity from the bench.

So yes Silva has a lot to learn and he needs to learn it quickly, but the fact is he's working with an average squad of players he didn't buy, he's still learning his trade within the prem, and he has no choice but to play attacking after the outcry from fans after watching last season's shite.

Imo we owe him 2 seasons before moaning about him as Pep would struggle with our squad, especially when he has so many senior players missing.

Tony Marsh
31 Posted 25/09/2018 at 23:56:03
Marco Silva will never get anywhere until he rids this team and squad of the shocking recent past.

Jagielka, Baines, Coleman, Calvert-Lewin, Gana Gueye, Schneiderlin, Niasse, and Tosun all either not good enough or finished. All need to go asap.

That said, these players make up most of the team which just goes to prove what an awful mess the club was in when Marco Silva took the job.

How anyone can blame Silva for the ineptitude of signings made by Koeman, Walsh and Allardyce is beyond me. We have been a poor outfit for years and Koeman set us back at least 3 years with his nonsense.

I really don't know why some of you lot pull out stats that relate to Hull and Watford. Are you seriously comparing Everton FC to these types of nonentity teams?? I mean who on Earth has ever done well at Hull or Watford?? FFS get a grip.

Jamie Crowley
32 Posted 26/09/2018 at 00:49:45
"Mini-Mourinho"?

Wha?

Mourinho plays some seriously dire shit, and I can't remember him actually playing for anything other than a draw against the bigger clubs. As a man, he's an arrogant fella who tosses fits when things don't go his way, and the last 2-3 years he's one of the most glum, dire persons I've ever seen.

Silva actually has his teams play good stuff. Yes, he's "defensively challenged" possibly. As a man, he seems relatively happy. Confident, but not that bird-chested, blow off any criticism like he knows better, type of fella.

So how in the world do you call Silva a "mini-Mourinho"?

Who the frig even tagged Silva as "mini-Mourinho"? I've never seen that nickname once?!

Trash.

Give Silva some time and patience. Even if you don't, I've a feeling he'll be here for at least two years, so might as well save the vitriol for 2019 and beyond.


I don't know The National. Quite thankfully, as if they print this utter crap, I'm glad to have missed them / it.

Steve Ferns
33 Posted 26/09/2018 at 01:48:28
Jamie, there's a misconception with Jose Mourinho these days. He's been around so much people's memories have forgotten who he was 15-20 years ago.

I would say that the present incarnation of Mourinho is Mark III. This Mark III seemed started with his return to Chelsea, and yes he won the league title. However, he then rounded on the female doctor / physio and his days were numbered. He's shown questionable man-management at Man Utd, and is a right grumpy git who seems to fall out with a lot of his players.

Mourinho Mark II is the one who emerged from the sacking at Chelsea and went to Inter Milan and won the Champions league and Serie A and then went to Madrid where he started to transition into Mourinho III.

Mourinho Mark I is the Special One. People forget just how great a manager he truly was. Yes was, because he is not as good any more. They also forget what he did.

Jose was born the son of a goalie, who played once for Portugal. His family were connected to football. Jose tried to make himself a professional career as a footballer, but quickly realised he was not good enough and tried to become a coach instead. Jose was very interested in the psychological side of football and approached his coaching from that angle. He got inside the heads of his players and manipulated them to mould them into what he wanted. His career was not going very far when he shrewdly got himself a job as translator for Sir Bobby Robson when the latter got the Sporting (Lisbon) job. As translator he had access to Robson and the players and access to Robson's way of thinking. Bobby (was Villas Boas would later testify) was a generous man with his time and intellect and was very keen to help aspiring young coaches like Mourinho and AVB. Robson took over at Porto and led them to the CL semi finals and achieved legendary status there. Mourinho was now one of his assistant coaches. Porto were very much an after thought in Portugal at this time. Portugal was a two team league and no one outside of the big two Lisbon clubs got a look in. Robson changed this and set Porto off on a run of titles that was the beginning of what has now been a long lasting period of them being the top club in Portugal.

To show Mourinho really was a coach and not just a translator, Robson took him with him to Barcelona, and Jose was his assistant manager. Robson was very much an attacking coach and so Mourinho helped by organising the sides defensively. After Robson left, Mourinho stayed and his time worked with Van Gaal.

Mourinho got his first proper job at Benfica. The biggest club in Portugal. He lasted 11 games, resigning because they would not extend his contract. He won more than half of those games.

Mourinho took an unfancied club next, UD Leiria, and after only 20 games in charge and mid season, he was given the Porto job, such as the spectacular job he had done. Porto were in a mess but Mourinho came in won 2/3 of the games left and pulled them back up to 3rd and said he would win the league the next season!

Mourinho built a great and attacking side at Porto. They also used the high press, and he set about using all he learned to get the side ultra fit. Just to emphasise the job Mourinho did at Porto let me break it down as follows:

First season - turned the club right around and guided them back to third
Second Season - won the league as promised and won UEFA Cup
Third Season - won the league again and won THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE with Porto. Come on that is the biggest single managerial achievement of this century. I would say nothing else comes remotely close.

So the Champions League, he beat Monaco in the final 3-0. He defeated Man Utd on the way, remember him running up the touchline? it was not the dour boring football that is now Mourinho's trademark. It was ballsy in your face football. Sure, it was not all out attack, but it had the high press and aggression. Mourinho played a 433 in those days. Costinha sat in and defended as a single DM. Then he had Pedro Mendes (of Spurs) on the right and Maniche on the left. Maybe those three are not the most attacking trio you will see but they did get forwards. Ahead of them was the Brazilian front three. Deco in the middle pulling the strings as a no10 and Derlei and Carlos Alberto up front, but with Benni McCarthy as an alternative. This was hardly a team of world beaters, sure Deco was world class, but no one else was even close. Mourinho really was the special one.

He then went to Chelsea and won the league twice, but you all know that. You all know how it fell apart as he transitioned into Mourinho II. However, that Chelsea team was an exciting one. It was not as defensive as the Mourinho II or III sides. They scored goals and they entertained.

So when Silva is described as a mini-Mourinho is it meaning that he is a dour park the bus manager? No it's about the pressing game he plays, combined with playing on the counter, and aggressively getting about superior sides without fear. Mourinho always had a flair for defence. Silva seems to have lost that, if indeed he ever had it, but before he came to these shores he conceded less than a goal a game, which is not at all bad.

Mainly though, Mourinho tried to be Bobby Robson to Silva, and take him under his wing, not by making him part of the coaching staff, but by lending him his ear, thoughts, and conversing with him regularly. Witness Mourinho talking up "the kid" and saying how they were friends in the run up to the Silva victory over Arsenal at the Emirates with Olympiacos. So yes, it was probably lazy journalism to say that a young Portuguese coach was a mini-Mourinho. But I just say remember who Mourinho was. The younger version with a swagger, a glint in his eye, and the ability to take average players to places they shouldn't dare dream of. That's what I hope Mini-Mourinho can refer to.

Victor Yu
34 Posted 26/09/2018 at 02:53:00
Mourinho used to be very good. He used to make good substitutions and change things around if needed.

I don't see that in Silva. He plays the same system every game and I don't see him making game-changing substitutions.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

35 Posted 26/09/2018 at 03:03:53
A good summary of Mourinho's career Steve, but I must correct you on one point when you claim, pre-Bobby Robson, that "... Porto were very much an afterthought in Portugal at this time. Portugal was a two team league and no one outside of the big two Lisbon clubs got a look in."

Not true. I arrived and lived in Portugal for the first time in the early 1990s. I adopted Sporting as my Portuguese club because they (rather than Porto) had fallen on hard times and had last won the league title in 1981-82 (with Malcolm Allison, no less).

From that year onwards, the title was a total monopoly between Benfica and Porto for 17 seasons until Sporting finally landed the title again in 1999-2000. Benfica and Porto had 6 titles each since Sporting's last title at the time Bobby Robson took over at the club.

One of the determining factors of why I chose Sporting as my Portuguese club was because there was a cafe owner, a big supporter of the green and white lions, who declared a season or two after Sporting last won the title that he would not raise the price of his coffee until they won the title again.

It was a promise that must have cost him a fortune, presuming he managed to stay in business during those drought years!

Jamie Crowley
36 Posted 26/09/2018 at 03:07:57
Good explanation and I agree with your Mourinho encapsulation Steve.

The "mini-M" thing to me is lazy. They're not alike currently at all. They're both Portuguese so it's simple to say it and think it's clever.

It's brain-dead.

I do hope Silva is the Mk 1 Mourinho - taking Everton (Porto) to heights unfathomed.

Finally, Porto winning the CL is absolutely a massive accomplishment by Mourinho. The only thing I've seen to rival it from a coaching perspective was Leicester City and Claudio Ranieri.

Yes, I'm serious..,..

Why was it such a great coaching feat? Ranieri came in with no pre-conceived notions, no "system", and he analyzed what he had. Which frankly wasn't that much. He realized his strengths lended themselves to playing a fairly simply 4-4-2 / 4-4-1-1. A solid keeper, two very good and strong CBs, they played good defensive soccer, and sprung Vardy any old way they could.

Ranieri didn't try to out-think the room. He kept it elementary. They won the league against all odds.

Sometimes, the most brilliant thing may actually be the most simplistic and basic. And Ranieri was genius in that regard that season. He built a team based upon it's strengths, minimizing it's weaknesses, and created the best "team" I've seen in my 10/11 years of watching soccer.

Those boys would have cut off a pinky finger for one another without a second's thought.

Genius.

Martin Nicholls
37 Posted 26/09/2018 at 05:34:24
Andy#23 - not quite Christmas Andy. Ian Lloyd has him gone by November!
Benjamin Dyke
38 Posted 26/09/2018 at 06:51:17
In all the stats presented in this thread, the most damning is the goals conceded in the Premier League by Silva's teams. Let's hope it was the quality of player not just the coaching that lies behind these stats!

But, having said that, at least when his pressing game works, and when we have our best attacking players on form, then it's a darn sight more entertaining than the dross we had under Martinez season's 2 and 3, Koeman and Fat Sam. And there's a greater chance of finally beating a top 6 team away than we ever had under Moyes.

We just have to give this latest revolution time. We've seen enough of a semblance of a new identity and successful recruitment to let these guys have a good run, even if the results this first season make for bad reading. You never know... common sense may catch on one day.

Laurie Hartley
39 Posted 26/09/2018 at 07:51:24
Jamie # 32 - about your comment

I've a feeling he'll be here for at least two years,

I hope you are right because that is the only way we are going to get a new stadium which would under those circumstances be well under construction.

It may be unpalatable to think about it but I am of the opinion that Moshiri took a huge commercial gamble sacking Sam and appointing Marco.

My view is Silva has to achieve stability this season, preferably before Christmas, otherwise we will be in shtuck in more ways than one.

First hurdle stop giving away points at Goodison.

Mike Allison
40 Posted 26/09/2018 at 10:59:07
You build a team from the back. That will never change. You can’t attack unless you have a solid foundation to base it on. If you try to start with the attack then even attacking stops being enjoyable, because you know that it doesn’t matter if you score, you’re going to concede anyway.

You can slag off Allardyce all you like, I’ll never defend him, but the criticism of Moyes needs to be much more carefully targeted. Moyes’ ability to organise a team so that it was disciplined, defensively sound and hard to beat should still be being praised by Everton fans to this day. Much more so in the light of what has followed and the dawning of the realisation that we can’t actually take those things for granted, as so many seemed to for so long.

In wanting more ambition and a more attacking approach we’ve thrown the baby out with the bath water and gone backwards. We need to organise the team defensively and stop conceding goals. Teams should know that once we’re ahead they’re fucked. It gets their heads down and makes winning easier, a habit. Currently teams know that they can play with no fear against us because if they do go behind, they’ve always got a good chance of getting back into the game.

I don’t want some cavalier team that sometimes wins 4-3 and sometimes loses 3-4. I want a proper, balanced football team: solid in defence, hard-working and creative in midfield and incisive in attack. They should consistently pick up results against the ‘lower’ teams and have the talent and chutzpah to challenge the bigger teams. There are no shortcuts based on ‘entertainment’, there’s only hard work and earning it through doing the dirty stuff.

You can attack much better from a strong foundation, and your ability to attack is pointless if you can’t defend.

Laurie Hartley
41 Posted 26/09/2018 at 11:50:41
Mike # 40 - I like your logic.
Lawrence Green
42 Posted 26/09/2018 at 12:24:30
Mike (40) I can't disagree with your premise of building from the back as most if not all successful teams over the years have followed that mantra. Moyes did a good job for most of the time on the defensive side of the game but it was his 'careful' personality that stopped him from breaking out from being a good manager to being a very good or exceptional one.

Since David Moyes left Everton FC the football climate has changed radically and those percieved 'smaller' clubs are far more likely to hold onto their better players than was the case five years ago, mostly due to the massive increases in TV money awarded to all and sundry in the Premier League, which helps those clubs to be far more competitive than they otherwise might have been.

Which brings me to the next point, why do we as fans use the size or status of an opposition club as a barometer as to whether or not Everton's chances of winning a match are increased or diminished depending on that criteria.

Everton has a team, the opponents have a team, and whichever proves to be the best team on the day will be the winner, size or status outside of the very richest clubs has little to do with the outcome of any particular match. Obviously the quality of the players availabe to each side has a bearing, but Everton's team as a whole is arguably not much better than most of the current members of the League outside of the elite group.

There was a time when the size and status of a club was very important mainly because the biggest clubs in England had the biggest wedge to buy and attract the best players, Everton FC haven't been in that elite category for a very long time and even with the recent spending sprees, I see nothing that says that we are fast approaching our old status.

According to Paul 'the Esk' on twiiter, Everton FC have increased non-broadcasting income by £9m since 2005/6 (including the USM sponsorship of FF). Whilst In the same period Liverpool have increased it by £140m and Manchester United by £293m p.a. The other 'Big Six' clubs have also seen significant increases in non-broadcasting revenue during that period.

Everton FC need to quickly improve the commercial side of the club to increase income or it has to implement a radical plan to bring more youth players into the first team in order to save money on transfers and wages.

Everton have spent money - not very wisely we note - but it hasn't had the desired effect of jump-starting our ambitions in fact it could be argued that is has stunted our progress and hamstrung our chances of becoming part of a 'big seven'.

Due to the reasons given previously I believe that some Evertonians need to reset their expectation dial and realise that despite the size of the club and its history we are in no position to expect Everton to put any club to the sword as a matter of course, whilst every fixture against the non-elite is winnable, that will be the case only if the team perform to their maximum and prove better on any given day than their opponents.

Like many fans, I'm not sure whether Silva is the right guy, but given I can't readily think of an ideal manager, who is available and affordable, to be in the Goodison hot-seat at this time, I'll settle for Silva for this season at least and keep my fingers and toes crossed that he succeeds in his task - I don't believe the club can afford another change of boss, unless of course we go on a long run of not winning games, which would end any managers tenure no matter what the situation is at the club.

James Marshall
43 Posted 26/09/2018 at 12:32:34
Mini Mourinho? Where has that come from? He's nothing like Mourinho - love him or loathe him, Jose is (was) a winner but he most effectively played defensive football, something that Silva hasn't got a clue about, ala Martinez.

Just because he's Portugese doesn't make him Mourinho on any level. In fact their nationality is the ONLY comparison you can make between them.

Silva is already being found out in my view.

James Marshall
44 Posted 26/09/2018 at 12:42:12
Also, my 'stats' post at the start of this thread has been moved from another thread to this one by someone in site admin - it was never posted in the context seen here, and now makes me look like a chump. Cheers admin.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

45 Posted 26/09/2018 at 12:49:37
Praise to Mike @ 40 and Lawrence @ 42 for the subject matter discussed and the manner in which it was posted.

It is a truism, as Mike posts, that the foundation on which all good to great teams are built is in defence. That is the biggest nagging doubt that still lingers with Silva and his English Premier League record: his sides concede too easily.

He, and the team, must improve immensely on that front, or we won't begin to meet the ambitions of the owner or the supporters.

Having to score 2-3 goals just to gain a point was what ultimately did for both Martinez and Koeman. Silva will follow the same fate if he replicates that pattern. (And - NO! I am most certainly not calling for his head, before anyone interprets it like that).

And as Lawrence very eloquently demonstrates, the gold rush of inflated TV deals is giving us the veneer of being able to compete with the 'Big Boys', but as he neatly shows, our non-broadcasting income is a pittance in comparison to our more dominant rivals.

Two good posts. I enjoyed them.

Bobby Mallon
46 Posted 26/09/2018 at 17:22:56
I’m in Portugal playing golf and everyone loves Silva and they say with time he will be better than Mourinho. We just need to be patient.
Dan Brierley
47 Posted 26/09/2018 at 17:40:51
Kev 29, thats a very fair point! Its possible to pull out stats that can suit any agenda, just depends on how you want to look at it. Allardyce was brought in for a very specific mission, which he achieved, and was then rightly shown the door. With his negative brand of football and the squad he had, I think 8th was the best he could have possibly done.

Although I think with Silva and the players we have brought in, means expectation surely has to be to do better than Allardyce's 8th place last season? I can't really understand how we can accept to do worse than what somebody like Allardyce can achieve.

I completely accept it will take time before we can start competing with the top sides, and I think Silva has far more capability than Koeman or Allardyce to get there. This is something I can wait 2 or 3 seasons for while he gets the right people in.

But I can't accept that during this transition we get easily beaten by the bottom teams at home. I feel he has to learn quickly and adapt, and perhaps compromise playing his rigid system in favour of playing to the individual players strengths. Playing expansive football is far more entertaining, and its become a pleasure to watch us again.

But I hope we can also become a team that is capable of changing tactics when things aren't working out, and grinding out an ugly win where necessary.

Garry Corgan
48 Posted 26/09/2018 at 18:14:59
I’m surprised anybody is talking about stats at all right now. I thought we’d done all that in the summer when he was appointed.

We’re only a few games into the season. We’ve barely seen Bernard, and haven’t yet seen Mina or Gomes at all. What’s more, we’ve had Coleman, Jagieka and Keane all injured or suspended at some point. The only consistency in our back-line has been our inconsistency! Even the left back spot is in transition from Baines to Digne.

How anybody can begin to draw any conclusions about Silva at this stage is beyond me. You don’t need to have seen every match he’s ever managed or be able to pull statistics out of your arse to know it’s still early days.

Steve Ferns
49 Posted 26/09/2018 at 18:59:06
Which is more acceptable to you guys:

A) 7th place and less points than last season?

OR

B) 9th place and more points that last season?

The reason I ask, is that I believe (haven't checked) that our points total was very low for 8th. Is it more important to win more games, get beat less, score more, concede less and get more points, or is league position the only thing that matters?

Tony Abrahams
50 Posted 26/09/2018 at 19:06:12
Steve, if the football improves I’d take twelfth place tomorrow mate, but if the football improves then I know we will finish higher!

Fulham, is a big game but Southampton in the cup is a bigger game for me. I know many won’t have this view, but we haven’t won a cup for 23 years, so what really is the point of finishing seventh?

Let’s run round Wembley with a cup, because I’m sure that will bring us fans a lot more joy, than even a fifth place finish? Surely?

David Hallwood
51 Posted 26/09/2018 at 19:30:24
I'll go with the general consensus; give the man a chance. We're 6 games in-yes just 6, and some Evertonians are writing the season and Silva off! this is becoming like speed dating or Tinder.

Yes we need to tighten up at the back, but so far we haven't played the same back 4 in consecutive games(shades of last season). Against the Arse, the forwards didn't have their shooting boots; it happens.

I think we should all realise that this is may be a 2-3 season project and in the meantime a couple of decent cup runs and a 7-10 finish will do nicely.

Laurie Hartley
52 Posted 27/09/2018 at 01:08:59
Steve # 49 - If Silva can keep playing this type of football, like Tony, I would take a mid table place this season. That would give us a platform to build on.

Watching the team against Arsenal the thought crossed my mind that this teams luck will turn soon and when it does "some team" is going to be on the end of a hammering from them.

I think Mina and Gomez will strengthen the team at the back and in midfield - a big plus. Despite the differing views on the striker I think this team has got goals in it.

We just have to get over this current hump, keep what is a very young team together, and then I think we will see the progress we are all hanging out for.

Kieran Kinsella
53 Posted 27/09/2018 at 04:24:01
Couple years back I read on here lots of people marveling at the 6-3 loss to Chelsea. The logic was — defeat apart — that the game was an incredible event to witness. I didn’t agree then and I don’t agree now. I loved those Joe Royle 1-0 wins with the dogs of war. Ideally I would like us to be like the Italy of old, right defense, skill on the ball, but no Keegan cavaliers. Keep it tight, strategic strike, 1-0, good night nurse.
David Barks
54 Posted 27/09/2018 at 05:43:38
Kieran,

Hold up just a damn second. I too remember that game and I remember these pages being flooded with frustration. While we were overall feeling joy at the manager choosing to actually try to score a goal against the likes of Chelsea, we were incredibly frustrated with the poor defensive performance in that match. That was coming off of Moyes refusing to even try to play football against Chelsea and others.

So no, people were not saying the game was incredible to witness. You’ve completely made that up. People were encouraged by a fresh approach after more than a decade of negative approaches to the game of football Under Moyes.

Dave Lynch
55 Posted 27/09/2018 at 06:05:30
Can we please stop mentioning the ginger one.

He is/was and always will be a serial loser, he has done/won nothing in his career as a manager and never will.

He has made millions out of winning the sum total of jack shit.

Alan J Thompson
56 Posted 27/09/2018 at 06:54:47
I'm finding some of the comments in this thread and others disappointing, to say the least.

I don't want a "Mini Mourinho", I want a manager with his own original (and successful) ideas who isn't trying to be somebody else.

Views that say they wouldn't mind finishing in the middle of the pack if we played good football seem reminiscent of what was not liked in Martinez. It also harks back to my description some years ago of aiming for a 10th place finish as mediocrity.

Allardyce is panned, and in my mind rightly so, but nobody offers him the excuse that it wasn't his team, other than Tosun and Walcott, or that he should have been given more than half a season and several transfer windows to improve on his half season (2/3rds if you insist) 8th place finish.

So far it has been a poor start, 6 points from 6 games, and at that rate it's going to be a backs to the wall 38 point finish. And now I've fallen into the statistics trap. A colleague of mine used to say that statistics show that people who jump off tall buildings change their minds halfway down.

However, it is too early to say Silva should be replaced but there has to be signs of improving those areas that obviously need it rather than believing it should be alright when our newly bought injured players are fit enough. He has to work with what he has and tinker with the "philosophy" as I hope he does whenever the opponent changes as at the moment they seem to have adjusted theirs to our style.

Chris Gould
57 Posted 27/09/2018 at 07:27:34
Tony #50,
I have to disagree. Winning the League Cup provides the fans with a great day out but is totally forgotten about at the end of the season. It also doesn't necessarily represent real progression. A 5th place finish would be fantastic. We will have dislodged not one, but two of the big six. It would be a far bigger and more significant achievement than winning either cup.

Even the FA Cup has lost some of its gloss. The days of coverage of the final beginning at midday on both major channels are long gone. Didn't matter who was in it, everyone watched it. Not the case anymore.

Spurs haven't won a cup in a while but are considered a success and one of the big boys because of their league performances. They can now attract top talent to the club, although can't afford the very best.

A cup final is a great day out, but 5th place would represent huge progression. It would also mean that we would have witnessed some fantastic results throughout the season. Everyone would be buoyant. ToffeeWeb would be a happy place, mostly.

Of course, you then need to sustain and build on that progression.

Sam Hoare
58 Posted 27/09/2018 at 07:55:17
Chris @57, I agree that coming 5th would be a more impressive achievement in many ways than winning the League Cup and probably a better sign of things to come but I reckon most fans would take a trophy. It's been far too long and the cabinet cobwebs have grown thick!!

Getting into the Champion League (top 4) is obviously a game changer financially and profile wise but I'd take a trophy over 5th. Actually winning a competition would be relished by the fans and would hopefully have a big positive effect on the players' belief and mindset.

If we won the League Cup, came 7th-9th in the Premier League, turned over some of the top teams and played attractive football, I'd say that would represent a very good first season for Silva.

Dennis Stevens
59 Posted 27/09/2018 at 08:07:53
If we don't win a trophy this season then we will have surpassed our record period between trophies - not a great first season for Silva.
Tony Abrahams
60 Posted 27/09/2018 at 08:12:40
Chris, I'm not expecting everyone to agree with me mate, and you also make some valid points.

It's all about media coverage, and money, but we have a hell of a lot of young supporters who travel anywhere and everywhere to follow Everton, and have yet to see silverware, and experience the joy that winning a cup brings.

I was finished with Moyes (sorry) long before he lost to Wigan in the quarter-final of the FA Cup, especially when I heard the way the phoney twat celebrated beating Man City, a week later, in a game I'd refused to attend. Maybe he knew that this victory had pushed him closer to the Man Utd job? But give me cups over sixth any day, please!

Brent Stephens
61 Posted 27/09/2018 at 08:21:25
Dennis #59. Quite right. One season is plenty of time to sort the mess. All Silva has to do is get rid of any dross, buy in some replacements in summer, fit them in, coach everybody to his methods, buy in more in January having got rid of more dross, and now fitting them in. One season is plenty of time to win a trophy.

I love irony. But you’re spelling your surname wrong.

Jer Kiernan
62 Posted 27/09/2018 at 08:36:59
I was a bit dubious of his appointment and thought at the time the board didnt show enough ambition, however the signings he has made have looked good, and he is our Coach now so have to support him

And although it has been a shakey start I think we need to wait until he has bedded in most if not all his signings before we can really judge and we need to give the guy a full season in any case

The easy goals we give away are worrying but we still don't have a settled back 4 and have Mina to come in,

Now maybe I was dreaming this but I seem to remember last campaign going 5 games with like 1 fucking shot on target against shite teams under FS ? This is not even sport the equivalanet of a boxer running around the ring and hiding behind the ref Norman Wisdom style

So we are at least "giving it a go" this season and I welcome that but without a finisher it is both frustrating and futile so let us wait and see

Raymond Fox
63 Posted 28/09/2018 at 21:44:05
Silva will be given all the time the club can afford to. If we are in or near a relegation fight towards the end of the season it will be panic stations all round again!
We have had as easier start fixture wise as I can remember and we hav'nt taken advantage of it, we need to improve and quick.
Ideally we needed someone with more standing and experience such as Benitez who knows the game inside out. Having said that I do feel our problems lie more with the quality of players than with our choice of managers.
Its far too early for anyone to be calling for Silvas head, but because of what has gone on in recent seasons the job has become more pressured than ever.

I sincerly hope results improve and we along with Silva can enjoy our match days once more.

Dennis Stevens
64 Posted 28/09/2018 at 22:28:36
lol, Brent. Maybe you're right about the spelling - if you pronounce your surname "Steffens"!

As for Silva [is he messing up on the spelling front too?], it's not a case of me setting an unrealistic expectation but the simple fact that he has arrived in the wake of a couple of decades of frustration & this just happens to be the season that would cement this period as the first time the Club has gone a whole quarter of a century without winning the League or Cup. Not his fault, just unfortunate timing - unless he can pull off the unexpected, of course. I still blame Moyes for failing to win the League in 2011!

Jerome Shields
65 Posted 28/09/2018 at 22:58:33
Tony#50.

I agree Everton need to do well in the Cup competitions, Personally speaking I don’t like the extended time off after Xmas, for our high paid players, having flunked out of the cups. Also Everton has to show consistency week in, week out are we are not going anywhere.

, The top four play in more than one competition, if not more than two. To shape up to this level Everton have to put in a showing in the cups, Winning the FA Cup and then the Premiership the next season is what the standard objective over the next five years should be.

So Everton have to show something, bouncing around sixth place Moyes like isn’t good enough. We have years hoping to get into the top 4 . Getting into the top 4 and flicking out of the cup. How long will be up there, having to play in more than one competition.

Let’s win a Cup and stay up there.

Hywel Owen
66 Posted 30/09/2018 at 22:17:53
It is far too early to make a judgement on Marco Silva but his lack of Premier League experience and tactical nous worries me.

I cannot understand why some people still denigrate Sam Allardyce. True, watching his teams play is quite often gut-wrenching... but he was employed to prevent an Everton team in freefall falling into the Championship and he did just that. Be grateful, people be grateful and try to understand the basics of football.

Michael Kenrick
67 Posted 30/09/2018 at 22:29:40
I don't quite get your fond remembrance of Allardyce, Hywel. I was sickened by the fact that he was ever chosen as Everton manager, and the day could not come quick enough for him to be sent packing.

It's not clear-cut that he actually rescued us from doom in the way you claim, but let's not dwell on that — it's now ancient history. We can never know what would have happened had Unsworth been given a fair crack of the whip.

Yes, I should clearly bow to your self-proclaimed superior knowledge of football basics but – guess what? I'm not going to.

Steve Ferns
68 Posted 30/09/2018 at 22:30:26
Hywell, we were 13th when he took over and it was still October / November, So how is that freefalling to the championship. You sound like a kopite on the windup.
Hywel Owen
69 Posted 30/09/2018 at 22:43:10
Sam Allardyce is a relegation avoider (nothing else) and that's what he was employed to do.

I have had the privilege of supporting Everton since the 1950s and have watched real teams wearing the hallowed shirts and winning things. I do also recognise reality when it stares me in the face and we were, 13th or not, in freefall.

Your comment about the unmentionable Kopites is unworthy. I have been guilty of the occasional wind-up though!

Mike Galley
70 Posted 30/09/2018 at 23:04:53
Chris @ 57

Whilst I don't deny that from a strategic, business point of view, 5th place would probably be better than a League Cup victory, I'm afraid that I disagree with you. I crave a trophy.

I was born in 1970 and was (am) lucky enough to have seen title/trophy winning Everton teams.

Everything you say about the diminished stature of the domestic trophies is true, but nevertheless, I'd like us to get our hands on one of them and see our young Blues have days and times at Wembley like I was lucky enough to have.

Mike Galley
71 Posted 30/09/2018 at 23:20:55
With regards to the whole shameful episode of Sam Allardyce getting our job. If I'm honest, the performance away to Southampton sent a shiver down my spine. I'm the most pessimistic of Evertonians and I was really worried after that day.

Anyway, I have blue friends who were never worried about relegation last season and got very annoyed when (in their eyes) we panicked and got Sam Allardyce in. Was it the right thing to do? I guess we'll never know...

Stan Schofield
72 Posted 01/10/2018 at 19:57:28
Hywell @66: As you say, it seems that Allardyce was brought in with the intention of us avoiding relegation. But that doesn't mean that we were in 'freefall' and destined for relegation. We beat West Ham 4-0 under Unsworth, just as Allardyce was arriving.

It could be argued that that result under Unsworth might have signalled a turn-around, in much the way Everton usually do 'turn around' and finish 'higher midtable', having averaged a finishing position of 8th over the last couple of decades.

In other words, what was happening before Allardyce arrived could be viewed as 'typically Everton', with the addition of unattractive football that was actually made worse by Allardyce.

Dennis Stevens
73 Posted 01/10/2018 at 20:51:16
Hywel perhaps you have a distorted view of last season, then again, maybe we all do in our own way. However, as I recall, despite the horrendous circumstances he inherited & with very little time to work with players between matches, Unsworth had us free-falling all the way from the relegation zone to 13th place. The embarrassing panic move to replace Unsworth with Allardyce only lead to a marginal improvement, even though Allardyce had more time to work with the players & the January transfer window to boost the squad.

Furthermore, based upon the results each manager achieved during their stint in charge averaged out over 38 matches, only Koeman was close to possibly taking us down. Koeman had got 8 points from 9 matches, a whole season at that rate would have given a tally of 33 points, the same as the two best performing relegated clubs. Applying the same process to Unsworth & Allardyce would have had us finish on 53 points in both cases, still only enough for 8th place - exactly where we finished.

John G Davies
74 Posted 01/10/2018 at 22:20:29
Comparisons with Mourinho after so few games in charge of Everton?
David Ellis
75 Posted 09/10/2018 at 09:12:56
I'd think that right now an "anti-Mourinho" is exactly what we need (and have).

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