In a long-form report by German newspaper, Der Spiegel details of the plot led by the likes of Bayern Munich and Real Madrid to consolidate their power in an enclosed league of elite clubs are explained based on emails and other documents uncovered by Football Leaks.
The report alleges that the 11 "founding clubs" concerned have drawn up a framework for the legal and logistical steps needed to form their breakaway league, scheduled to begin in 2021, and that the signature by representatives of all 16 teams who will be invited under the "binding term sheet" is set for this month, although there is no specific date.
The league's members would have an initial membership of 20 years and would not be subject to relegation.
According to the Spiegel article, the rebel clubs are:
Real Madrid, FC Barcelona, Manchester United, Juventus Turin, FC Chelsea, FC Arsenal, Paris Saint-Germain, Manchester City, FC Liverpool, AC Milan and Bayern Munich. All seven clubs in the secret society are represented. The five "initial guests," according to the document, would be Atlético Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Olympique Marseille, Inter Milan and AS Roma.
At the same time — the stories are, obviously, very much linked — it is being reported that Manchester City and Paris St Germain knowingly skirted Uefa Financial Fair Play regulations by inflating sponsorship deals (some to the tune of 80% of their value) and hid other payments but avoided punishment due to a deal negotiated by then Uefa chief, Gianni Infantino.
Read the full report Der Spiegel
Reader Comments (104)
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1 Posted 03/11/2018 at 03:03:26
Can those giants mentioned thrive on not winning anything? Or cope with the ignominy being bottom of league?
Or perhaps those teams are happy just to be earning money the the top table.
2 Posted 03/11/2018 at 03:37:14
So Danny Drinkwater - end of your career. Would have been the same for Thomas Gravesen. They might think twice about signing for them.
Other implication that after over 60 years of trying, Spurs may win the league.
3 Posted 03/11/2018 at 05:57:02
4 Posted 03/11/2018 at 06:05:07
The self-appointed big clubs claim that their overseas fan base means they should have a greater share of the overseas broadcast revenue (which has mushroomed in value). However they already get increased revenue through the global sponsors they are able to drive through.
Wages have got out of control however, but if this breakaway happens it might mean an outbreak of sanity for the rest of the clubs. TV revenues will plummet - the money will go to this new league - at least initially - and so costs would need to reduce as well, but we might get something like a competitive league again, where achievements like Leicester are not seen as the aberration they are viewed as.
I would predict long term this league will fail. Assuming national FAs don't allow these "super-teams" to compete in national cups, the remaining leagues re-form European competition (maybe as it used to be - European Cup being for League winners only), then what does this league do? Play each other 3 times a year? Home, away and then games around the globe to satisfy sponsors?
Bring it on. The genuine fans of these clubs will be bored shitless within 2 seasons.
5 Posted 03/11/2018 at 06:18:24
Sadly in this case the product of SL will sell really well to TV customers globally .
So, what will likes of PL and La Liga etc do? Very little I fear as I suspect their men at the top are feeding from same TV trough.
So in the end it is back to customers...us.
Imagine the next step. A super league that clubs in likes of China can buy themselves into. Off they go playing in their SL. Stomach churning headlines begin of £1m per week/day/hour contracts begin and the SL buy Greece so players can enjoy their lives securely!
Meanwhile here the-not so PL continues in half empty stadia. As best-of-the rest we keep winning PL but cannot access Super League for 20 years.
How would you react?
Of course I feel the "always a Blue" sentiment but I am not a complete Muppet. If they change the rules so we cannot win the top trophy in any circumstances, then what would be the point? The fabulous fans of lower league clubs now at least can dream. In the New Super League system it would be like life without parole with the only hope an appeal every 20 years with a crap lawyer and a corrupt judge. All hope dashed.
Now there will still be a few thousand footy purists who will watch to analyse the techical side of the games. Hats off to them but I am shallow and need to dream. The thought of attending a new but half empty stadium with 20,000 increasingly ageing John Motsons and their bored grandkids would be just too sad. It would be like a scene from League of Gentlemen.
I have dreaded the Super League for some time and if it is going to happen, let's save ourselves some cash and just train youngsters at Finch Farm, sell them to the Super League and argue on here about the price received.
As this brave, techy new world develops, we could abandon all first team football and just give the profit from the sale of embryos with potential to EitC, for them to provide counselling for recovering football fans who need to rediscover their self esteem.
6 Posted 03/11/2018 at 06:26:00
7 Posted 03/11/2018 at 06:36:08
8 Posted 03/11/2018 at 06:44:54
9 Posted 03/11/2018 at 07:05:36
10 Posted 03/11/2018 at 07:27:51
But, if they are going to break away (like Packers cricket circus or the USFL) ban their money grabbing players from all Fifa/uefa competitions for at least 10 years.
Ban all the the clubs involved for a minimum of 20 years from and Fifa/Uefa competitions.
Once this so-called Super League fails, and it will, let the greedy fuckers wither and die in the desert. Let the likes of sheik Mansour, Kroenke, Pogba, Neymar, Raiola and co find something else to to with their time and money. Domestic football will grow and prosper without these leeches.
11 Posted 03/11/2018 at 07:42:53
12 Posted 03/11/2018 at 07:58:13
The novelty of watching the same teams so regularly will soon wear off.
Ask most neutral football fans now and they will say the Premier League is rot and that the Championship is the most exciting and closely fought league.
That just goes to show that these so called super clubs are not needed for entertainment.
I remember a time when an English club playing a Barcelona or a Juventus type club was exciting - now I rarely tune in to watch, it has become the norm and so doesn't carry the same weight of anticipation.
And also, these entertainment seeking fans will get a shock when they go from watching their team win regularly to getting spanked most weeks - that will soon get tiring (just ask my Huddersfield Town supporting friends who were overjoyed to get in the Premier League but now just want to be back in the Championship where there is more games and less defeats!)
The new super league will be dominated by the top four in the game, just like the Champions League is now. The rest will just make up the numbers, and become the also rans they are trying to get away from - poetic justice indeed.
Meanwhile Everton can set about winning some titles!
13 Posted 03/11/2018 at 08:02:43
If it takes off I'd love to see bans for players and clubs from FIFA / UEFA but those guys are not afraid of money so I can see them getting involved in some way.
Any way, we'll be happy enough with ten Premier league, champions league, FA cup and league cup quadruples in a row in 2035.
14 Posted 03/11/2018 at 08:04:46
PS. I think it will become quite expensive and tricky to teavel to away games for the so called super teams supporters.
15 Posted 03/11/2018 at 08:08:17
It would breath new life into the Premiership. Let the greedy go and fight it out amongst themselves.
Getting rid of Chelsea, City and the likes would only make the prem more competitive.
In most leagues around Europe you can probably predict the top two before a ball is kicked. The prem has been stale for years with only Leicester bucking the trend.
In my opinion the championship is the best league in Britain if not Europe for it unpredictability. Removing the fat cats from the prem would also remove the bias shown to them from the refs making the games more of a level playing field.
16 Posted 03/11/2018 at 08:26:15
17 Posted 03/11/2018 at 08:33:23
The greed of the beast, kills everything in the end!
18 Posted 03/11/2018 at 08:36:07
19 Posted 03/11/2018 at 08:44:44
20 Posted 03/11/2018 at 08:49:19
Teams play in the Champions lge every season, who havent won any silverware for years, so therefore, they are no longer Champions, but they never look to change the rules.
We all have our own opinions, but mine is that if a team hasnt won a trophy, in the previous three seasons, then they should be made to forfeit their place for a season, even if they keep getting in the top four.
21 Posted 03/11/2018 at 09:16:26
22 Posted 03/11/2018 at 09:25:11
Our owners are going to invest hundreds of millions in Everton. Right now they will only get their money back if we qualify for CL, but there are six other clubs trying to achieve the same thing so the risk of a loss is high, consequently the likes of Usmanov will hesitate. If CL effectively becomes a closed shop then less will be invested.
Personally I think there will be a way in to this superleague once the idea has been developed - perhaps an SL2 for national league champions. The premiership will of course be effectively dissolved, so must have a say?
For myself watching CL football is tedious and I imagine a sterile no relegation super league will be no better.
23 Posted 03/11/2018 at 09:37:38
It would also soon lose appeal for fans given the cost of away games and a limit on how many games a season there would be with fewer clubs in the league. A shorter season would be a nightmare for fans. The close season in the summer is painful enough.
24 Posted 03/11/2018 at 09:47:11
And they can take their cheating bastard referees with them.
25 Posted 03/11/2018 at 09:53:03
How the feck will normal people be able to afford to travel round Europe every other week, when people struggle to have a decent living in the UK?
May be these greedy swines have a notion of cheaper travel, which is unlikely with the uncertainty of the EU.
Pure greed, and Id ban the lot from playing again in any national tournaments and kick any clubs out for 10 years.
What is uncertain is the Stance of the English FA.. Id not be surprised if this organisation is also in on it.
Lets hope this is pure greed lust and KIng Edwards.
26 Posted 03/11/2018 at 09:55:28
Nothing about forming a new league is about the match-going supporter it's all about TV and sponsorship. The possibility of empty grounds won't deter them as they'll find ways to fill their stadiums - even if they have to resort to giving away tickets on a massive scale. It's the billions of potential viewers that is their target market and that's from where they'll make their money.
I don't know what affect all of this may have on Everton FC but for once, I'm glad we're not one of the elite clubs, as those clubs and owners are married to greed and have no care for the game or its match-going fans. The greatest show on earth will become a travelling circus, when most ordinary folk only want to see a simple game of footy.
27 Posted 03/11/2018 at 09:58:40
28 Posted 03/11/2018 at 09:58:50
The league itself could be much more competitive with no single or couple of teams dominating, although Arsenal and Spurs may think differently.
Simply promote four teams from the Championship to the premiership and four from league one to the Championship etc etc until all the gaps are filled.
English football would survive and adapt.
As for the so called super league?
While the idea may sound exciting to the supporters of the teams in it they'd soon tire of playing each other maybe four times a season and finding that attending most games was prohibitively expensive for the majority.
It would soon turn into a spectacle for tourists and a very small number of hardcore supporters who could afford to travel and attend.
The teams eager to join either don't realize, or don't care, that by taking away local support and rivalry, and joining the circus, they'd be sanitizing the game for one reason and one reason only, money.
Good luck to them, let them go. Just make it clear there's no way back and let's see how it pans out for them.
29 Posted 03/11/2018 at 09:59:05
But the consequence for us once those clubs are out of the PL, means the annual prize money will fall away big time. Hopefully this means that the value of players like ours drops considerably, or it will be back on the fans to fund the squad through ticket pricing.
30 Posted 03/11/2018 at 10:01:38
SL on its own will hopefully be dull for glory hunting fans as their teams lose a lot more
31 Posted 03/11/2018 at 10:27:37
16 teams means 30 league games. They would probably have a European Super cup involving the same 16 teams. So that would be a maximum 34 games for the finalists and a maximum 31 games per season for those beaten in the first round. What a great season for the fans that would be.
As others have said, they cannot participate in the FA or league cup, European competitions or represent their countries.
So let the greedy bastards go. Greed has taken over football world wide, not just in this country. Football is no longer a sport but a business. There may well come a day when it can return to a level playing field, and this might just be it.
32 Posted 03/11/2018 at 10:28:52
Quite honestly, I rarely watch other than Everton unless it is on free to air or an interesting National team fixture so it may only expand into the likes of Asia, North America and Africa.
Let them have and live with what they want, come hell or high water.
33 Posted 03/11/2018 at 10:30:12
I would imagine though a lot of the European clubs would like a share of the sky-pie, with the gullible Uk subscribers funding them.
Comcast/Sky ?and the breakaway clubs may get a bit of a shock though, fans may turn their backs on it. It is regional rivalry that fuels sky and the EPL . The passion and history are prevalent. The euro games would be soulless affairs of no interest to the wider UK audience.
If they go, cut them off . No coming back. The EPL then should abandon Sky or whoever has the euro games and sell exclusively to BT or whoever. Even if it means a reduced deal.
34 Posted 03/11/2018 at 10:43:46
Their respective fans have got used to silverware every year, do you think they would accept less just because the opposition was top drawer every week and the games more challenging.
Are Manure fans happier now they are being challenged every week or would they give their right arm to be nailed on champs every year as they were just recently.
i agree with Tony #33 it is just a big stick to threaten others with of they don't get their own way. Just like telling kids to beware the bogeyman.
35 Posted 03/11/2018 at 10:49:01
Its the other 14 teams in the PL that make the league exciting! When was the last time you saw an exciting game between the ‘Top 6 clubs? Theyre usually dull affairs! Maybe the LFC and City games last season?
Id miss the Derbies, but the cheating that goes on within games against the ‘Top 6 is now on a disgusting level...theyd deserve one another!
If EFC were in this SL scheme, Id be embarrassed, as well as thinking how bored Id be watching the same teams line up game after game.
Post SL...I like the idea of inviting the Scottish leagues to join the English leagues. I would even invite the Irish teams too and have a British system, minus the nobheads in the SL.
Itd be a good marketing ploy to rival the Super-Nobheads-League!
36 Posted 03/11/2018 at 11:14:42
As a shallow dreamer myself I have to agree with almost every word of your post. But what have the Greeks done to earn such a fate?
Send them all to Dubai instead - they deserve each other.
37 Posted 03/11/2018 at 11:29:41
in all honestly, I don't even think they can be considered one of the so called "big six" clubs in this country. What criteria do they have to gain entry to the ESL, or be considered one of the "big six" clubs ?
It's 57 years since they won the league, in fact in their entire history they've won it twice. They've won about as much as us during the premier league era, and we have always had a bigger stadium than them (up until they move into their new one).
So I assume it must be because they have played in the champions league for a couple of seasons. Can't be anything else.
38 Posted 03/11/2018 at 11:41:18
"Their respective fans have got used to silverware every year, do you think they would accept less just because the opposition was top drawer every week and the games more challenging."
James, it's not the fans that would be involved in this. It's the Money Men. Do you think that us fans are considered in the PL these days? Fixtures changed at a moments notice with no consideration to fans who have booked flights, tickets, hotels etc. No, if the Money Men can get this afloat it will happen, whether fans like it or not. The greed that exists in football now will kill the game as we know it.
39 Posted 03/11/2018 at 11:51:43
40 Posted 03/11/2018 at 11:59:53
I hope it happens, as long as those clubs are not allowed to play B teams in their home leagues. Also it would be good to ban these clubs from loaning players out to the original leagues.
I imagine that this idea will disenfranchise the ordinary fan, who likes to travel away from home, and it will just be the middle classes who can really enjoy the trips, leaving the plebs to watch on telly.
I would think that once the likes of Villa, Derby, Boro', and Leeds fill the void, the PL will keep it's interest for us mortals, and the Euro elite will all get bored with each other.
41 Posted 03/11/2018 at 12:01:15
42 Posted 03/11/2018 at 12:01:54
The cost of watching these teams for your average fan.
With no relegation doesn't it become aimless for two thirds of the club's involved passed a certain point in the season?
Will they only play games in this league with no cup competition's nor European games?
43 Posted 03/11/2018 at 12:03:10
44 Posted 03/11/2018 at 12:08:49
Every club left needs to stand firm and back each other up and fuck them all off when they come knocking. A few seasons of the Red Shite mulling out a 0-0 thriller against Marseille or whoever and the job will be fucked.
Hopefully the greedy fuckin' yanks who run the tin mine will sell up to some Chinese billionaire who will then relocate them to Outer Mongolia and we will be rid of them forever more. “We don't want to be eaten? We want to eat you!" Seems to be their mantra, so let them eat each other!
45 Posted 03/11/2018 at 12:18:48
This in my view would lead to the quality dropping in the Premier league, should this happen. Somebody even suggested inviting some teams from Scotland to join the Premier league, not for me. All the top players would be playing in the new league, and thats were all the money would end up. As for what happens after 20 years and a club gets relegated where do they go, if all the countries whose teams will be involved said if they came back they would have to start in the 3rd or 4th tier that might dissuade some of switching.
I don't see any upside to this for the teams that will be left in the Premier league, and I am sure Sky and Amazon and Netflix will be pouring Billions into trying to secure exclusive rights to this new league. We would be watching inferior players and probably would see an influx of the players that play in the new league when there coming to the end of their careers so we would become a pension fund like China and America is at present.
46 Posted 03/11/2018 at 12:19:36
PL will quickly wither if this happens and find a level just above the current Championship, it was built as an elite tournament not a national league.
Thomas, it wasn't "built as an elite tournament" at all it was merely the old first division given a new name, same teams with promotions and relegations exactly as before.
It feels different because it's marketed differently to all the Sky sheep.
Sky DIDN'T invent football believe it or not, and neither did the premier league, it existed just fine before they moved in and could/will again should they fuck off!
Amazing how some people get sucked into the world according to Sky.
47 Posted 03/11/2018 at 12:21:37
Without a doubt, if this should come to pass, the media money for the PL will fall, the very VERY best players and managers would be hoovered up by the 'elite' Super League clubs and those remaining in the domestic leagues would have to adjust their costs accordingly.
But... so what?!
Like many, based on this thread, I used to be a glutton for almost any televised game of football, particularly those rare (note the 'rare') encounters between European heavyweights under lights, mid-week. I am no longer.
Gradually, both UEFA and FIFA with their reforming of the entry qualifications for their flagship competitions, have effectively diluted the 'magic' of those 'rare' encounters and made them commonplace.
Many of the CL and Europa League qualifying games are drab affairs, so easy is it to predict who will qualify for the KO stage. Gianni Infantino declared just this week he wants to bring forward by four years his horrible, lopsided 'innovation' to expand the World Cup final numbers to 48, believing (mistakenly) that 'more is better'.
This would not be the death knell for domestic leagues IMO. It will be a renaisance. You cannot discount how deeply enmeshed a local football club is within its community, its host city.
Financially, the proposed Super League will be a 'goer' and popular with the extended world audience, particularly Asia. But that audience is also very fickle. It is one thing following a team that is competing and winning trophies domestically each season. It is another thing altogether when you are bumping along mid-table or lower in an 'elite' league.
Following and supporting your team at every game as some fanatics do will fall off dramatically. Monday morning footy discussions at work will be very 'meh' without the local interest.
If the 'elite' clubs choose to remove themselves from their domestic leagues, we would see a return to a more even playing field, a super-competitive league, in which clubs would again field more local talent which in turn would resonate with their fan base.
This may be just a ploy by the 'elite' to get a bigger slice of the media money the national leagues generate, rather than divi it up more equitably as is currently the case.
But UEFA, FIFA and the domestic FAs still hold a very strong hand. If the 'elite' clubs move forward with this, then they and all staff associated with them should be declared 'outlaws'. That the competition will not be recognized by any level of any governing body, who would impose a life-time ban on anyone joining such clubs from participating in any form of football endorsed by the footballing authorities.
I close with one caveat: Sadly, the likes of UEFA, FIFA and the domestic FAs have not always displayed the necessary spine, but rather, played the role of appeasers to accommodate the few rather than guard the interests of the many.
48 Posted 03/11/2018 at 12:31:00
And if the championship is so great, then why does no one watch it or give a shit about it?
Sure, the Super league could fail, but that would only make football fail with it.
49 Posted 03/11/2018 at 12:34:45
Too true. They just bought it.
"You cannot discount how deeply enmeshed a local football club is within its community, its host city."
I think we are in the last days of that era and a more mobile middle class means those roots are weakening. And for those former working class roots of football...think those are weakening due to price. So dad may still go but when Karen goes to college in London, think she will be dashing back?
Or when Zoe comes and studies here and stays, who would she go and watch.
Just strikes me some of us may be knowingly watching the demise of football as we know it now and kidding ourselves the result will be the game returning to those days we fondly remember as kids.
50 Posted 03/11/2018 at 12:35:51
51 Posted 03/11/2018 at 12:53:54
Go read the guardian or the times. This is not to replace the Premier League, this is to replace the Champions League.
Whilst it doesnt categorically say the clubs will remain in domestic competition, it does imply that.
This is the usual cartel thing they do where they force UEFA to give them more. Last time it was so they all go straight into the groups without qualification (ie no Villarreal type exit for any of them).
They just want a bigger piece of the pie, as always. So more and more TV money given to the cartel regardless of performance or results.
They also want to ensure that they have automatic qualification for the next 20 years so it doesnt matter how they do, they still qualify.
The league would see them guaranteed 15 or 30 games, and then it goes into a knockout, so 15 is more likely. Thats TV revenue bonanza for them.
Its all about clubs in Italy and Spain where they dont have the economy of England or germany trying to ensure they line their pockets.
52 Posted 03/11/2018 at 12:54:32
If will happen at some point. The global TV and live streaming market make it inevitable. Many of the clubs involved have fans all over the world, so youll see a fair few games played is USA and Asia. Just look at the summer tournaments.
The SL clubs will look to remain in their domestic leagues and field B teams. A Man C B team would still be competitive and the Premier league cant afford to not have a Man U, RS presence - so a deal will be done. This will give the SL clubs a chance to field youngsters and operate a competitive reserve option.
There inevitably will be a SL second division in time to which the likes of us and Spurs will be invited to join.
Watching Man U right now. Who do you think Pogba would rather be playing against week in week out? Bournemouth in front on 10,000 or Real Madrid, Barca etc
53 Posted 03/11/2018 at 13:00:31
54 Posted 03/11/2018 at 13:05:12
I think wed still see the Cartel 5 dominate the PL, but if one of them stubbles, like Man Utd are now, then they wont be bothered with the PL.
55 Posted 03/11/2018 at 13:05:39
In order for us to stay in the game, I would consider us forming a second break off league with the likes of:
Tottenham, Valencia, Seville, Porto, Benfica, Lyon, Monaco, Ajax, Feyenoord, Celtic, Rangers, Napoli, Fiorentina, Werder Bremen, Schalke, Anderlecht.
A Champions League style knockout competition could be proposed across the two leagues.
56 Posted 03/11/2018 at 13:18:19
Many clubs in the U.S. have done this.
It definitely continues the decline of football as a sport for the working man or woman.
Im sure the game will continue to grow in popularity and be incredibly successful but the clubs will no longer belong to their cities of origin.
I remember going to games in the sixties and the fans looking genuinely poor but still having a shilling or two to go to a game. Its a different world now.
57 Posted 03/11/2018 at 13:25:32
There is a pyramid in this country which has 100s of teams in all wanting to play at a higher level.
There is more to football than the premier League in this country.
58 Posted 03/11/2018 at 13:31:24
"I think we are in the last days of that era and a more mobile middle class means those roots are weakening."
As far as Everton goes, the numbers contradict you as this link shows:
Our young fan base attending matches at Goodison is GROWING, not diminishing. A 15% growth in a single season at the time of the linked report. One in four attendees at Goodison are under 22.
If the report in the original post is not accurate, as Steve Ferns suggests @ 51, that further moves the goal posts of the discussion.
I for one do not take a doom-ridden view of this for the future of professional football, however it pans out.
59 Posted 03/11/2018 at 13:35:16
60 Posted 03/11/2018 at 13:41:35
Football, as we know it, is becoming more a game for the few than the many.
Whilst I too worry about the consequences of the EPL effectively becoming the "Championship", I think it could bring back local football to a wider audience in this country.
I think it would be more affordable for mainstream TV and thus would get more coverage. Fans would be able to regularly watch their team play.
It would open the door for a lot more sponsorship from organisations that are currently priced out of the market or are bit players. I think this could raise the level of the remaining league.
It's easy to be dismissive and rude about the championship and Scottish football.
But are you telling me the fans who support those clubs, as avidly as we do Everton, don't enjoy it as much as we do? They don't get the thrills or the heartache?
I wondered about the drain on decent players wanting to play in such a league. But players want to play. And 20 odd teams may have the VERY best players but certainly not all of them from across the entire world! And if money were everything, a lot more players would be plying their trade in China.
The difference between the top 6 and the rest now is obvious as is with the EPL and the championship. But that's because they're competing with each other with vastly different resources. The remaining clubs in the EPL would not be competing with this league, at least for 20 years. They would become for many, almost a foreign league.
After the hoo haa has died down it could become similar to the CL now. But there would be no interaction between it and any other European clubs or leagues.
Fans want something to relate to. Local rivalries, history and what went before them. The world cup is great. The best if the best. But I would still prefer to see my team thrashing it out on the park for 3 points - all ends up - every day of the week.
I think such a league will probably have negative and positive implications for British football. Immediately it could well be negative, for those left behind. But I think in the longer term it could be very positive.
61 Posted 03/11/2018 at 13:46:28
We already have a Champions League, yet these greedy bastards want to isolate themselves to satisfy their superiority complexes.
Man U playing Bayern, Real, and Barca over and over? HA! They won't win a game the entire season!
This whole situation to me is simple. It will definitely happen if FIFA does nothing. If FIFA actually grows a backbone and levies penalties on Clubs and players alike for withdrawing from their respective leagues, it won't happen.
So thanks to shady dealings, money talking, and FIFA's incredibly high moralistic standards (cough, puke, cough) the big teams are off.
62 Posted 03/11/2018 at 13:49:44
Well, the bubble has got to burst at some point. What goes up must come down. I wonder how RS fans will feel finishing 7th in the SL and if fielding a weakened side in the Premier League, being beat in both derbies with Everton finishing above them each season?
63 Posted 03/11/2018 at 14:03:26
Within a few years the five guest spots will be taken by the biggest clubs from China, Qatar, South America and the US (possibly even a US All-Stars type team).
As the local football supporters find they can rarely go and actually enjoy the atmosphere of a match many will start going to other games depending on how deep their loyalty is that will either be to other local Premier League clubs or to lower league clubs. Neither of which is a bad thing for football in the UK.
64 Posted 03/11/2018 at 14:03:52
65 Posted 03/11/2018 at 14:10:58
I don't see it is a negative if this happens. Let them go play in their league and see how it pans out for them. Let them play their games in Asia or the States or wherever, all it's doing is cutting the umbilical cord to their genuine fans. If they want to sign their death knell then so be it I won't shed a tear for them.
I'd rather watch a competitive league than one whereby a select few can abuse FFP and buy up all the top level players and win everything, big deal. In a few years all the winners will be soulless clubs like Chelsea and Man City, putting flags on seats to create an atmosphere... Rah, rah! Well, if that's the future, then I'd rather they did go off and do their own thing. I for one would not miss that kind of plastic football.
66 Posted 03/11/2018 at 14:11:33
Personally, I would much rather have some scum bag hedge fund finance it because if the club, and therefore the stadium project goes to the wall, I couldn't care less about a hedge fund losing money. I would though hate to see, Liverpool residents 10, 20, 50 years from now having to foot the bill.
67 Posted 03/11/2018 at 14:12:57
To be honest this is old news, these meetings he set up with clubs to discuss plans go back a couple of years. I remember seeing reports and pictures of the meetings, and him using the excuse of expanding the International Champions Cup (the US based summer friendly competition) as why they were meeting, but in fact it was about this league. Link
With the backlash the proposed La Liga game is getting, I foresee the same for a Breakaway Champions League.
68 Posted 03/11/2018 at 14:16:42
We used to be one of the richest clubs, which is why we were elite and successful (8 trophies while I've been an Evertonian). At one time, we could buy the best players, even the 1966 World Cup final Man of the Match. We're not elite now, and haven't been for some time, but we're trying to be again.
I can imagine (but could be wrong in doing so), that many if not most Evertonians would be chuffed to bits if we were on the reported 'elite list' of clubs. Being on that list would of course reflect us either being at the top or a sign that we're on the way there.
In the mid-80s, we were arguably the best side in Europe but were denied a chance to show it, and cement our elite status, by events that had nothing to do with us, namely Heysel.
Personally, I want us to be the best, like we once were. That's what I was brought up with, so it's in my blood so to speak. As such, if this Super League goes ahead, I want us to be part of it. Either that, or I reject top-level football altogether. It's black or white for me.
69 Posted 03/11/2018 at 14:46:53
I don't/wouldn't get that from Barca or Madrid or Bayern etc, there is no history or tradition, just wouldn't have the same appeal if you're watching it week in week out. If the so-called top 4 want out then so be it. As much as it would mean we are successful I wouldn't want to be part of a closed shop European league.
I like going to away grounds in England where the hosts don't like you for whatever reasons and it's hostile. It's a band together time for away fans, not like a European jolly where you take time to enjoy wherever it is you're going. Doesn't matter how successful you are, where is the fun of spending a fortune going abroad to watch the blues every other week paying inflated airline charges wherever you go?
If it is an all or nothing scenario then to be honest it would be a nothing scenario for me. Give me regular local rivalries any day over constant meaningless games against teams from Spain or Germany or Italy and playing them all over the world. It would mean nothing to me if you can't even afford to go and watch it. Watching irrelevant football on TV is not being a fan – it's just putting more money into the already obscene cash cow.
70 Posted 03/11/2018 at 14:53:05
The leaked documents included some saying that Bayern Munich were exploring the legality of leaving the Bundesliga when this league is created. If this was intended to run alongside the regular leagues then why would Bayern be looking to leave their own league?
71 Posted 03/11/2018 at 15:34:54
On one hand, this could end up being like that cricket thing that rapist Alan Stanford tried to get going in the Windies that descended into farce. Or it could be like what happened in the USA with NFL, NBA etc emerging from old leagues and competitions.
An interesting element is the assumption the Euro Super League would attract as much money as the Premier League in terms of TV deals etc. If you have a closed shop of 16 to 20 teams you are to an extent limiting yourself to their fans as customers. Yeah you get people who are neutrals who pay but would everyone?
If you look at the Premier League, yes in any given season you are marketing the 20 teams in that league. However, you also have fans all the way down the pyramid into the non-league who, with varying levels of realism and expectation, may have an interest in the Premier League on the basis their team has in the past, or could in the future, rise to that level. You wouldn't have that same intrigue if you had no concept or promotion/relegation or change in a Euro league.
Also, how long would it take for say Liverpool to establish a rivalry with say Inter Milan or Marseille that would rival the level of interest their rivalry with Everton has. Ditto with Arsenal replacing derby games with Spurs and West Ham for games with AC Milan or Borussia Dortmund.
Yes, at first you have the glitz and glamour of it all but things soon would settle down. One or two teams would dominate and Arsenal v Dortmund would be a pretty meaningless game between two struggling teams exempt from relegation. Liverpool v Everton would in contrast be a big game even if they were playing last day of the season and fighting over 12th place.
So I think you would lose a lot of the traditional fans. But, that is assuming the powers-that-be actually care. If they consolidate enough "fans" from Asia, America, wherever to cover their costs, and attract enough old-school fans to fill stadiums on match days, then it is no skin off their nose if many millions of average Joe fans just quit watching the sport altogether.
72 Posted 03/11/2018 at 15:35:41
Money has completely ruined football. The rich, fashionable teams with the best divers win. You can't tackle anymore... And if they need a helping hand from a bent ref, they are only too happy to oblige!
Just don't ever let them come back.
73 Posted 03/11/2018 at 16:13:25
74 Posted 03/11/2018 at 16:30:09
The Premier League has been built on replacing the old First Division with all its troubles (hooliganism, aged half-full stadiums, lack of investment, continental sides buying all of the top talent) with an emphasis on family friendly entertainment focussing on the top players and top class facilities. No more mudbath pitches and encouraging speed and skill. Many of the elite play in the Premier League, for a long time Premier League clubs dominated the Champions League and the Premier League charge elite prices.
Take away its ability to pay for the best players in the world and it ceases to be the elite competition TV currently pays for. If the Super League ever happens, that will happen. Of course, that will not be the death of English football but...
75 Posted 03/11/2018 at 19:51:39
76 Posted 03/11/2018 at 19:59:04
77 Posted 03/11/2018 at 20:01:41
R Madrid - okay we stay.
A Madrid - okay we stay.
Barcelona - okay we stay.
Spain 4th - okay we stay.
Man City - whatever.
Man Utd - okay we stay.
Chelskis - whatever.
Arsenal - okay we stay.
Bayern - okay we stay.
What I am trying to say is that the so-called big clubs want more money and so make a threat. Let the fuckers go and let the real clubs compete for their leagues and we will go back to the proper European Cup, Uefa Cup and Cup Winners Cup and tell all these pretentious twats to go and have their Super League.
Our leagues are there for a reason and not for money.
Sod the untouchable for they will want to play the honest!!!!!
78 Posted 03/11/2018 at 20:10:29
I think such a step on what ever scale would have to be overseen by governments and ethically it would mean slinging the book of so called football values and ethics.
FIFA and UEFA are bent and for the good of man kind, and the football community as a whole, if such an action took place it would make football a circus that would crash and burn very fast.
Imagine the red tape for recruitment, scouting, coaching...Raises questions about training licenses etc massive, massive risk, and cost.. but who wants to go the pictures to see the same film every 2 months and x4 times every 8 months..?
Who could afford to get the always across the continent with soaring costs and even potentially higher with or without brexit?
If they want to do it and get to do, then ban the lot for life from further membership of the English FA. Then again the FA could be in it to, on back handers.
nb: To date, no reply from my email to the FA about the cheating and diving, and very piss-poor referee last Sunday. Surprised? Not at all.
79 Posted 03/11/2018 at 23:45:36
80 Posted 04/11/2018 at 00:42:34
Even if it did happen the domestic game would continue to thrive. The Championship is the third biggest league in Europe for attendances. A Premier League without the five clubs listed would still attract large crowds and significant TV revenue with more clubs having a chance of winning something.
81 Posted 04/11/2018 at 03:40:35
Elitism has had a detrimental effect on football in general so "Super" Elitism will ruin the game. However, if those teams decide to leave... good riddance. And they should never be allowed back in their home leagues. So those 16 teams can spend the next 50 years boring themselves and their fans to death.
Also the fun of away games will be significantly restricted. The whole idea is idiotic
82 Posted 04/11/2018 at 07:17:46
Where is the excitement of a league with nothing to play for but 1st place and everything else is failure? Fans would soon become bored.
We all know that clubs' fortunes can change rapidly, so what would they do if, say, Manchester United fall apart and their team consistently finishes in the bottom 3?
Because of the small number of teams, the so-called Scottish Premier League has actually killed the game in Scotland. Low crowds, boring fixture lists (who wants to play the same teams 8 times a season?).
The whole idea is drivel but let them do it and when they realise the error of their ways, refuse them re-entry to their national leagues. It's time for the majority of real football clubs and supporters to make a stand against the money grabbers.
83 Posted 04/11/2018 at 11:41:04
I would genuinely hate Everton to be a part of something like this and I'm sure the majority of fans from these respective clubs would feel the same. Especially the English fans who are used to travelling – travelling away fans contribute so much towards a really competitive game of football.
I've read somewhere that, once a penalty has been taken, there will be no rebounds if it hits the woodwork or the keeper saves it? Hopefully this will only happen in this soul-less new league!
84 Posted 04/11/2018 at 12:03:00
Let's be honest, who is really interested in the Champions League until it reaches the knockout stage? Imagine how boring it would be to see these teams compete for this elite but traditionless league. Football will implode one day but these clubs and FIFA are so blinded by money that they can't see it.
85 Posted 04/11/2018 at 12:24:07
The money boys will want a piece of all the pies.
Watch this space...
86 Posted 04/11/2018 at 14:10:50
Say what you like about the RS, but their fanbase puts ours to shame when it comes to protests, we all remember our lot clapping "Blue Bill" as he flogged our own training facility following advice from his shadow investor, the lovely Phil Green, his best mate and 'Mozart of money.' Would they have put up with his bullshit? No chance.
Fans have power, if they chose to use it: Football needs fans; its time to go on strike…
87 Posted 04/11/2018 at 15:24:00
88 Posted 04/11/2018 at 15:43:36
90 Posted 04/11/2018 at 16:28:32
When it all fell apart, I'd let the English clubs return to competitions, but they'd have to start by winning their way into the Ithsmian League Division One North or South and then climbing slowly back to the Premier League. That would take about 7 years (assuming they got promoted every year).
91 Posted 04/11/2018 at 16:54:43
92 Posted 04/11/2018 at 16:56:18
Maybe people are scared of the long-term damage it would do (honestly?) but if the next six live matches were all played in empty stadiums for the first 30 minutes, then these super rich clubs would really panic.
It's political, not enough militants, not enough common sense, but that's ”imo” of-course!
93 Posted 04/11/2018 at 17:10:07
94 Posted 04/11/2018 at 18:34:22
95 Posted 04/11/2018 at 18:40:04
I would love to see Liverpool in this league. It will be like the Kerry Packer circus. Fuck them off and never let them back. Happy days ahead.
96 Posted 04/11/2018 at 18:43:16
And I cannot follow a logic where Bayern Munich, Barca, Real Madrid, Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, and the RS leaving makes any sense for those Clubs, as they're sitting pretty where they are.
97 Posted 04/11/2018 at 18:57:03
You are exactly right, and if it had been done even further back other contenders would be Leeds, Nottm Forest, Burnley, Wolves, Portsmouth – a host of other teams – and of course Everton. Time changes everything besides getting old.
I would hate to be in such a stupid league. It would end up devoid of interest for all, except for those who have invested in it. And they would only be in it to make money. What a bollocks of an idea. I don't think even the fans of Red Norway United (RS) would like it. Mind you, I wouldn't if they were the only team in the league.
98 Posted 05/11/2018 at 11:38:42
A 22-team League would do me, 11 ties every weekend, with the possibility of showing one live game on Freeview. There are so many possibilities with a new League with the right people running it with vision.
It might just turn out to be the greatest single thing to happen to our game in a generation, in the long run.
Bring it on!
99 Posted 05/11/2018 at 13:45:34
Three of the English clubs are owned by Americans who believe in the franchise system and I suspect they'd have no compunction in moving their team to a different city if they felt it would be of financial benefit to them. Money corrupts, American money corrupts totally.
If things do go ahead, I hope the FA cut the clubs adrift. The club's shouldn't be allowed to participate in domestic competitions and the players should not be selected for England.
100 Posted 05/11/2018 at 21:18:24
Not only that but it would not take long for such a super league to develop its own top group of clubs and the inevitable plight of the rest merely making up the numbers.
It is long past time for football to return to its roots. The working class made it happen but in recent years it is struggling to keep pace with inflated costs and egos.
As happened with the 1980s, the great financial shock, the football market is long overdue for its own 'correction'.
101 Posted 06/11/2018 at 06:05:38
Is the Premier League getting boring. How much longer can it continue being about the Big Six. Is it about to bite its own bum?
"The sooner they all fuck off to a 'Super League' the better. It's so one-sided now that even the City fans are bored. The 'atmosphere' was like a library. I'm sure the excitement of playing Liverpool, Barca etc every second week without the pressure of relegation will be tremendous! I'm a Burnley fan and the sooner we are relegated the better - the Premier League is the equivalent of the English aristocracy versus the peasants, getting crumbs off the master's table and hoping we aren't given a thrashing every week for getting above our station. Football was once the game of the people now it's just another corporate business – whoever has the most money wins."
102 Posted 06/11/2018 at 09:22:25
Second thoughts: What are they even thinking? With no relegation from it, there'll instead just become (supposedly 'great') teams who are perennial losers, forever in a downward spiral (to nowhere!!), their managers always getting sacked, and replaced by someone else who can't turn a now shit team around!!! A load of bollocks then, really!!!
Overall, I don't get it at all... but then again my life will go on... so will football, even if not quite as we remember it, and, of course, Everton... so fuck em!!!
103 Posted 06/11/2018 at 23:45:06
This Super League will take fixtures all over the globe with only so many home games per season. No doubt they will have two cup competitions, a League Cup Knockout Competition and a Champions League, 4 groups of 4 type competition. If home supporters get to see more than 10 home League games a season, I will be surprised.
The people who attend these games will mostly be a core of diehards who will beg, borrow and steal to get the dosh to buy a ticket. The majority will be the well-off so-called Prawn Cocktail brigade and the rest will be tourist fans. This is a natural progression – just like the split in darts.
These clubs will have a guaranteed income for at least the 20 years with inflation built into it. The games will be sold to the highest bidder obviously and who knows who that will be. Overseas, the games will be sold out as no doubt the distributors of the TV rights will receive massive payments for the games to come to these football hungry countries / cities.
Meanwhile, the National Leagues will carry on, some of them with ambitious owners who will lobby for their team's entry into Euro Super League 2 in 20 years or maybe sooner, given some of the so-called elite 16 may well fail.
In my opinion, the 16 should be banned from all FIFA / UEFA competitions – the players should be banned too and any who find themselves without a club should not be allowed back into National Leagues until they have served a suspension of at least 2 seasons.
I for one will be glad to see the back of them. When I was much younger, when every August arrived, every team in the old Division 1 started the season on a much more level playing field and every fan could dream of their team winning something - just like the Championship... or Old Division 2, as I call it. That has gone from the game and it is much the poorer for it.
Yes, it's great to beat a top-six team... but once a decade or once in 20 years? – not for me; that's not football, it's what's called a cartel.
104 Posted 07/11/2018 at 00:23:34
How would this proposed Super League be any different to the existing Champions League format, other than the said clubs would play each other more than they already do?? It's already near impossible for any clubs not on that list to qualify from the top European leagues.
105 Posted 09/11/2018 at 09:15:35
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