Coleman: Fans understand the love I have for them

Monday, 5 November, 2018 140comments  |  Jump to last
Clive Brunskill/Getty Images

Seamus Coleman admits that his goal against Brighton sparked an outpouring of a number of emotions and he insists that while it was a response to recent criticism of his performances, there was no anger towards the fans.

The 30-year-old drove home a beautifully struck shot five minutes into the second half of Saturday's game and restored Everton's lead over the Seagulls, one they would increase 13 minutes from the end with Richarlison's brilliant second goal.

It was Coleman's first goal in 22 months and he sprinted away into a passionate knee-slide and his hands cupped to his ears towards the Gwladys Street End, a reaction that has prompted plenty of discussion on social media and websites. He would also turn to the crowd and pat the club badge afterwards in a show of his commitment to the club.

Coleman, who made a near heroic return from a horrific double leg break with a searing 90-minute display against Leicester in January, has had some niggling injury problems this season and he has, by his own admission, been a little below par this season.

The Republic of Ireland international spent three weeks on the sidelines with a stress fracture in his foot last month but is now back in the team and looking to establish some consistency in his game.

“There's a bit of everything,” Coleman said in the Liverpool Echo of his celebration on Saturday. “My first goal since I broke my leg and I've been getting a bit of stick.

“When I came back here in January and played against Leicester the reception I got from Everton fans is something which will stay with me for a long time.

"As footballers we all get stick so it's not like I'm having a go back at the fans, it's just me saying, 'I'm all right'. When I am fit and at it I am OK. It's not against the fans because that night in January is something which will stay with me for a long time.

"The fans understand the love I have for them and vice-versa.

“It's part and parcel of the game. Players can be very precious over criticism. The only way you can keep going is keep battling, keep doing the right things, keep working hard in training, keep listening to the manager, and your luck will turn around and that happened to me.

“I've been here nine years and had good spells of form and bad spells of form.”

"Never mind being aware of it from the outside, I am one person who is very capable of taking it on the chin and knowing when I am not good enough.

"There have been a couple of times this season when I've not been good enough and that's fine. I take that on the chin, work hard and try to improve every day. Thankfully today my hard work paid off."

 

Reader Comments (140)

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Gareth Clark
1 Posted 05/11/2018 at 06:29:52
I can understand his frustrations – it's been a tough year for him as a professional.

Great to see that passion – something that a lot of footballers lack!

Keep it up Captain Coleman!

COYB!

Terry Farrell
2 Posted 05/11/2018 at 06:38:26
Love Seamus for too many reasons to mention. Great strike against Brighton and his consistency will return due to his sheer willpower and bottle.
Colin Glassar
3 Posted 05/11/2018 at 06:40:30
The love is mutual, Seamus. I've criticised your last few performances because, let's be honest, you've been crap! I'm made up to see you coming back into form and long may it continue.

Saying that, however, we can't get all sentimental and need to plan for the future. Seamus is now entering the final stage of his career and a replacement needs to be found. Long gone are the days when we would keep great loyal servants on our books well after their expiration dates (eg, Hibbo, Ossie etc). Is Kenny good enough to step up to the plate or should we be looking at young Wan-Bassaka from Crystal Palace?

Great to see Mustard smiling again!!

Gareth Clark
4 Posted 05/11/2018 at 06:47:44
Colin #3

Unfortunately, I think you're wrong. I think Coleman has about 5 years left in him at Everton. He'll be a starter for the best part of the next 2 to 3 years and then he'll be used in rotation. No need to replace the perfect professional who is also very good.

I think that Kenny is a very able replacement – and will be even better after a couple years as Coleman's deputy. There's no doubt Wan-Bissaka is top-notch, but I doubt we'll go in for him, as there is no real need for him.

Alexander Murphy
5 Posted 05/11/2018 at 06:57:25
Great to see The Grand Seamus back at his imperious passionate best on Saturday. Capping it with a screamer of a goal was a bonus for him and his legions of Blue.

As he rightly says, he has been through an ordeal. Hopefully what is now ahead is Seamus returned stronger from the experiences.

If one current player embodies Evertonianism, then it is Coleman. He is entitled to an outpouring of passion.

Those who understand…

Mike Gaynes
6 Posted 05/11/2018 at 07:08:35
No, Colin, he hasn't been "crap"... just somewhat below his usual standard. And he certainly was outstanding Saturday.

And no, he's not entering the "final stage of his career" and no replacement need be found at this point. He just turned 30.

However, yes, we should always be looking at top-quality young players, and Wan-Bissaka is enormously impressive.

Drew O'Neall
7 Posted 05/11/2018 at 07:10:15
I’m glad Coleman is feeling the pressure. Bodes well for what is being created.

Good luck to one of the good guys on continued improvement after a frustrating period.

Eddie Dunn
8 Posted 05/11/2018 at 08:01:12
Sorry, Seamus, but you can't have it both ways. Taking it on the chin is not cupping hands to ears when scoring. Taking it on the chin is holding your hand up in apology when you put in a crap cross or mis-control a simple ball.

I have loved Coleman's attitude through most of his time with us and, like many, had fingers crossed for a return to his former heights. Let us hope that he continues in this form.

Jerome Shields
9 Posted 05/11/2018 at 08:21:27
Whilst Everton won well on Saturday and there where a lot of good things about the performance, one question still has not been answered: Are Everton capable of going into the deep end of the Premier League pool and consistently winning games? So far this season, they can't. . . It's been an awful long time since they could.

Everton are currently dependent on a forward who is being played out of his best position, and they have two players for this position on their books who are not considered first choice. Both look as if they are on the way out. Overall, the Everton forward line has a poor scoring rate.

Other areas of the team are playing well except the right side of the team. They play better in the shallow end of the Premier League, but are seen by the top half as Everton's main weakness.

So, sorry, Seamus, you are firstly a highly paid footballer for Everton; if Everton are to progress, they need their highly-paid footballers to be able to play consistently at the highest level. When the likes of Man Utd identify you as a weakness and set up their tactics to exploit this with success, questions still remain.

Everton for too long have bobbed along in the shallow end, ending up mid table at the end of the season. There are still areas of this team Silva needs to sort out and the forward line and right flank should be his number one priority.

Good goal, Seamus.

Jon Withey
10 Posted 05/11/2018 at 08:21:46
The right attitude, I've no problem with it.
Brian Murray
11 Posted 05/11/2018 at 08:25:44
As Colin says, do you want the old Everton or the new ruthless forward-planning Everton . No sentiment for Seamus or any player. If he can play to the level we want against the top 4, then great. If not, well, no more contract extensions etc.
Brian Murray
12 Posted 05/11/2018 at 08:31:36
Despite Leicester's recent miracle, they don't have the fan base or stature of Everton; therefore, a player as good as Chillwell should be enticed here pronto — whether we have good players or not in his position at full-back!!
Dermot Byrne
13 Posted 05/11/2018 at 08:36:46
Fans need a player to moan about. It changes regularly and Coleman has just had his spell. Long term perspective is not a part of supporting football (especially in soc media era) and you can bet someone else will get it after Chelsea, even if it is their first bad game.

As for Seamus's reaction. Jaysus, if I was earning my living, regardless of the pay, in front of 40,000 people and an insane media, I would get a bit thick-skinned when someone said I was crap. Even more so if I was working my arse off. I think Seamus's reaction was understated and, if it was most of us, we would probably have stuck up two fingers!

I am the first to moan about the ridiculous amount of money these players are paid but what I do recognise is it does not change you from being a human with emotional vulnerabilities and reactions.

Martin Berry
14 Posted 05/11/2018 at 08:43:59
Although we all can have an opinion, the moaning from some quarters about Seamus has been a disgrace. When you consider he has come back from a terrible leg break, what the hell do they expect? That he is back to his old self straight away?

It's idiotic to think that and how fickle some fans are. Being in the Lower Howard Kendall on Saturday, it was great to hear the fans sing his "60 Grand" song.

Gerard Carey
15 Posted 05/11/2018 at 08:56:19
No problem with Seamus, he's one of the few that will openly admit that he's been poor in a few games; we can't blame him for the emotion.
Give me ten like Seamus or Gana any day over the likes of Mirallas or Williams. I'm glad he's our captain and getting back to full fitness.
Derek Taylor
16 Posted 05/11/2018 at 09:17:28
We saw enough on Saturday to make 7th place a shoo-in. Continued failure to compete with the top teams will always prevent us from going higher.

Perhaps it's time to accept that fact and just enjoy what Seamus and his merry men are serving up for us.

Dave Abrahams
17 Posted 05/11/2018 at 09:25:19
I love Seamus for his sheer passion and will to win attitude, no Big-time Charlie about him. I remember one of his first goals for Everton (it might have been his first), he was so, modest he didn't really know how to celebrate it; didn't know how to release his emotions... then he was swamped by his team mates who celebrated with him.

You will always have my backing, Seamus, and so will Jonjoe Kenny, who came in and did more than a useful job of deputising for Seamus while he was injured. Let's not forget about him; too many on here write him off as not being good enough. The lad's only just starting his career, give him a chance, he loves Everton and is a down to earth, genuine kid who will learn off Seamus.

More importantly, he most probably loves Seamus as much as us, because he is one of us.

Colin Glassar
18 Posted 05/11/2018 at 09:32:07
Gareth 4, Mike 6, the secret behind the really top, top teams is that they don't stand still. They are always evolving, advancing and refreshing their squads.

I love Seamus. I think he's been a fantastic player for us (bargain of the century imo) – and he will (probably) remain our starting right-back for the foreseeable future – but he's not immune to criticism. That's been our problem for the last 30 years, ie, we are too loyal to our loyal players.

The elite managers eg Ferguson, Guardiola, Pochettino etc... identify early doors the players who are showing signs of age and wear and tear. I'm not by any means saying Seamus is finished but alternatives should be identified and signed. Just look at how Digne has replaced Bainsey. Or how Jags has been eased out.

We are a sentimental bunch but that has kept us back. It will be Silva's decision and so far he's shown (Rooney) that he's willing to wield the axe when necessary.

Justin Doone
19 Posted 05/11/2018 at 09:34:34
Seamus has a great attitude and willingness to work hard for the team. He's proven over many seasons what a top player he is and he's certainly good enough for a few more seasons. But... I think he has lost a yard of pace which reduces his value to the team and his instance to try and fail 5 yard passes with his left foot is tiresome.

I'm happy to stick with him and Kenny at right back, hoping Kenny continues to improve and perhaps bulk up a little. A hybrid of both would be great. Seamus 5 years ago with Kenny's better touch and range of passing and crossing.

However, Silva doesn't need to be patient and bring players through. We now have the finances to buy better.

Our right side isn't as good as the left (not helped by Walcott not being defensively minded but he's improving) and all Silvas past teams have had strong, technically good, pacey attacking full backs.

Having a couple of ex Barca (albeit never making it as first choice) players shows you what he wants and demands and I wouldn't be surprised to see a top quality 25-year-old right back recruited in the summer. Along with a top striker. Some call it ruthless; others a winning mentality... for me, it's a shame but football isn't a game anymore.

Gareth Clark
20 Posted 05/11/2018 at 09:42:35
Colin #18

Again, I disagree – top teams replace players with better ones.

Baines will be used in rotation with Digne – and will be a very capable back up. Coleman and Kenny will form a similar rotation over time.

I never said that Coleman is immune from criticism – I agree he has been below par before the Brighton game.

But Everton supporters and football fans in general make rash conclusions about players without giving them a chance. He's just back from a double leg break & working his socks off. Give him a chance – he might surprise you with regards to his longevity.

Eddie Dunn
21 Posted 05/11/2018 at 10:02:05
Gareth, Baines is not being rotated; Digne has his place.
Brian Williams
22 Posted 05/11/2018 at 10:16:05
I agree with Eddie. Baines will play if Digne can't.

Same as Schneiderlin, remember him? He'll only play if there's no other choice.

Henry Lloyd
23 Posted 05/11/2018 at 10:18:05
Seamus Coleman,

You do not have to explain anything to anyone and all Evertonians love you as much as you love us. You are a fine example of a footballer that will do anything to get your club back to where it belongs.

I thank you. Well done. Enough said.

Michael Lynch
24 Posted 05/11/2018 at 10:32:27
It was great to be bellowing "60 Grand, 60 Grand, Seamus Coleman" again at Goodison til the roof nearly came off. I thought he was back on it, fighting for everything, looking forward rather than sideways when he got the ball, getting down the wing for the through balls at pace.

Partly the service to him was better, but partly it did seem a real change in attitude from the man – he does seem to have been playing within himself so far this season, perhaps feeling his way back into fitness and also getting used to what the new manager expects.

His goal was class, but his celebration less so. I think he knows it, and explains it well – clearly a lot of pent-up frustration there, and it's interesting that the players are very aware of what the fans are saying. I guess if you're playing out wide like Seamus, you can't avoid hearing what's being said by the fans though.

Finally, IMO if the club are serious about pushing into the top 6 or top 4, then we should always be looking to upgrade on our players. The players themselves must know that. I think the likes of Digne and Gomes and Richarlison are a cut above what we've had in recent seasons – Mina hopefully will prove to be the same – and to continue that progress, nobody's place is safe.

Seaumus is certainly approaching the Autumn of his career, and it would be wise to be looking to the future sooner than we did with Baines.

Brian Murray
25 Posted 05/11/2018 at 10:34:02
Re Seamus, teary eyes, lump in throat, adulation equals stand still Everton nisi optimum!!
Colin Glassar
26 Posted 05/11/2018 at 10:40:13
Gareth, I hope you’re right regarding his longevity but we always need to look to the future and make our players stay on their toes.
Oliver Molloy
27 Posted 05/11/2018 at 10:45:17
Seamus Coleman's attitude x 11 and this club would be in a very good place.

He is a top top human being and not a bad footballer and, like he said, he is a committed Evertonian who I can tell you is desperate to win a trophy – not even for himself but for the fans – believe me!

I hope we get to see the sheer joy on this man's face if it ever happens!

Stan Schofield
28 Posted 05/11/2018 at 11:04:19
Personally, I don't criticise any Everton player, I never have and never will. It seems pointless, in that nothing good can ever come of it.

If a player has bad form (and every player does), shouting at them is likely to put them off their game even more. And I don't believe that having paid money to watch them entitles anyone to openly criticise them. You don't have to go to the match, but if you do go then you should act responsibly.

I believe we have a responsibility to encourage them; otherwise why are we supporters? And I don't give a shit about how much money they earn (some people call it 'obscene', but they need to get a grip on reality, and reserve the term 'obscene' for more important things in life).

If Seamus hadn't been criticised, he might have responded differently to his goal. If folks don't want a player to respond like that, don't criticise the player in the first place. Tackle the 'problem' at source.

Tony Everan
29 Posted 05/11/2018 at 11:07:51
I think it was an outpouring of the frustration he has had in getting back to his A game. It has been a hard slog for him and his form has not reached his own high standards... Criticism only comes because the fans want what's best for the team; it is in no way personal .

There is no doubt a fully tuned Seamus Coleman is what every Everton fan wants. He is an irreplaceable asset and embodies the spirit of the club.

Jim Bennings
30 Posted 05/11/2018 at 11:11:38
I've got no problem at all with that celebration from Seamus Coleman, it's everything I want to see in an Everton player: passion and aggression and desire. We have never ever accused Coleman of lacking in that department, the fella is Everton through and through now and loves playing football.

As I said when his form wasn't great, it was concerning but he's still the best option we have at right back and that's no disrespect to Kenny but he doesn't offer what a fit and enduring Seamus does.

If Coleman gets back to full form, then we all know we have a hell of a player there.

Matthew Williams
31 Posted 05/11/2018 at 11:31:21
We'll all love yer even more, Mustard, if yer set up the winner at the Bridge next Sunday.

Ray Smith
32 Posted 05/11/2018 at 11:39:31
IMO Seamus doesn't have to explain himself. He is a fine upstanding young man who is open and honest, and a very good footballer, and long may it continue.

I posted on his return from his horrific injury that he should not have played the full 90 minutes, but some TW's said Sam and the medical team know what they are doing! Well, I disagreed then and still do.

How many players with lesser (serious) injuries complete 90 minutes on their return? Any bets on none?

There needs to be a back up in case of injury, but hopefully whoever it is will have a long wait.

Seamus Coleman – 11 out of 10 in my book.

John McFarlane Snr
33 Posted 05/11/2018 at 12:01:27
Hi Stan [28], I agree with you entirely, there's a difference between expressing disappointment and slating players. It's my opinion that any professional footballer, at whatever level, has proved that he can play football, and to hear international players being called crap by some fans who may have risen to the heights of a Sunday League, is a bit rich.

I'm reminded of the time that Peter Kavanagh was on the receiving end of some stick from a section of the fans, and his reply was "What do you expect for a thousand pounds?"

For the benefit of younger supporters, Peter Kavanagh was a left winger who was signed from Romford in 1961 for £1,000, his Everton career lasted four months and consisted of six appearances. His team-mates at the time included Alex Parker, Jimmy Gabriel, Brian Labone, Bobby Collins, Alex Young, and Roy Vernon.

Peter Gorman
34 Posted 05/11/2018 at 12:38:08
Can all the fans who 'disgraced' themselves for criticising Coleman please come forward as I have absolutely no idea who you are or what you posted.

I've not read every post on the site, it must be said, but I can't recall reading any criticism of Seamus's iffy performances that didn't fall well within the range of acceptable personal opinion.

Colin Glassar
35 Posted 05/11/2018 at 12:49:50
I've criticised him, Peter, as I thought he's been below par in recent games. Saying that, I also said, at the time, that I hoped he'd play himself back into form, which appears to be happening, happily.

I also criticised Theo for leaving Seamus exposed against Man Utd and for that I don't apologise.

Tony J Williams
36 Posted 05/11/2018 at 13:03:24
I have no issue with Coleman's celebration. For me, he can keep on doing it every time he scores if he wants. Shows he is human and has a passion for the club and what the fans think; otherwise he would be the Pogba style robot who just wants column inches, hence the dickheadish penalty last week.

He made himself look a right twat but he fortunately scored the rebound, otherwise he would have been ridiculed for weeks.

Keep on plugging away, Coleman, celebrate any way you want fella

Harry Hockley
37 Posted 05/11/2018 at 13:05:31
We love you right back, Seamus! Let's not beat around the bush here, don't know why some are saying he wasn't crap because that's exactly what he was for a few games, but I knew he'd be okay because that's the type of personality he is – hard as nails and a true professional.

I never once gave him a hard time for it as some were, he didn't deserve it for so many reasons, so it shocked me to see some fans laying into him who can't have a clue what he's done for us over the years or have very short memories.

He's a legend and always will be so – don't forget that over a few bad games. He obviously felt he was letting us down with his performances of late, hence the celebrations after his goal at the weekend which showed us he ain't going anywhere anytime soon without a fight!

Les Moorcroft
38 Posted 05/11/2018 at 13:15:06
This lad has put his heart into our club. Form on a sliding scale; class permanent.
Simon Smith
39 Posted 05/11/2018 at 13:16:30
I think it was great to see Seamus react the way he did, he hasn't been up to his elite level and his celebration shows he was aware of it.

In my opinion, Seamus, Jagielka and Baines should be given the benefit of the doubt on almost any performance as they've served the club unbelievably well.

Seamus has to accept criticism when he's poor, it's part n parcel of being a well paid professional footballer.

Against man u he was run ragged by Martial, but Silva has to accept some blame, he didn't fix the problem. Myself, I'd have subbed him for Mina and put Zouma across to full-back, see how that worked. Easy in hindsight, I admit.

I believe Coleman has at least 3 good years left in him.

Andrew Keatley
40 Posted 05/11/2018 at 13:26:47
Peter (34) – I'm not entirely sure if you are making a point or asking a polite question, but I haven't seen anything that I would describe as disgraceful. In truth there are very few comments on here, on any subject, that are (what I would consider) "disgraceful". I think the word is used too liberally and often completely erroneously.

Seamus is a fan favourite, and has been since breaking into the first team eight years ago, but that does not make him immune to criticism. In his interview Seamus criticised himself for being "not good enough" in a few games this season, so anyone (myself included) who suggested he was below his own levels were obviously not that far off the mark. The stress fracture of his foot probably had an impact on his recent form, fitness and confidence – hopefully he'll be back to his very best form for the foreseeable future.

I understand the protective nature of some fans when it comes to their favoured players, but seeing some of the negative comments that our young players like Calvert-Lewin and Davies have received makes me wonder why some well-placed questions about Seamus have been met with such derision.

Frank Wade
41 Posted 05/11/2018 at 13:47:08
Andrew (#40), to answer your comment on not seeing anything that you would describe as 'disgraceful'. What about this from a Brian Murray referring to Seamus as "a cancer to this club" in response to a comment from Duncan McDine?

I saved the thread for later as I couldn't bring myself to comment. Actually, tuned out of ToffeeWeb for a while afterwards.

Brian Murray
25/08/2018 : 18:13:15
Duncan McDine. You can't think of a worse performance from the £60k fella, I could rattle off more than I care to remember and can ask why you love the guy? At a push, it's because he has Mick Lyons type passion for the club and promises "Defo next game... yada yada." The likes of him are a cancer to this club. A loser who would shit himself if he ever came within 10 mins of winning a derby never mind a cup.

Stan Schofield
42 Posted 05/11/2018 at 13:49:45
Andrew, firstly I think there's a difference between making 'balanced comments' (positive and negative) about a player in a discussion forum like ToffeeWeb, and barracking a player at the match (which just puts him off his game even more). But secondly, some of the comments on ToffeeWeb do occasionally veer into the overly negative if not plain ridiculous. Such as, "he's playing like his best days are behind him", or "his legs have gone", or "we need to think about replacing him sooner rather than later", etc.

We've seen ridiculous criticism before, such as with the likes of Stones and Barkley, and we're seeing it again with Calvert-Lewin, Davies and Lookman, and no doubt it'll happen again with almost any player who hits a bad spell of form.

Perhaps the message is to be as patient with the players as we've had to be with the entire Club over the last couple of decades, cut them some slack, and get behind them. We're supporters at the end of the day, and there's a difference between 'reasonable assessment' of a player and ridiculous and overt criticism.

Kieran Kinsella
43 Posted 05/11/2018 at 13:50:42
Frank (#41),

Wow! That has to be Tony Marsh in disguise.

Ed Fitzgerald
44 Posted 05/11/2018 at 13:59:49
Coleman has been a great servant to the club; he is a crowd favourite and rightly so IMO. However, he isn't above criticism and, until the weekend, has been mediocre by his own standards. I can understand his reaction on Saturday because, as usual, some people go beyond reasonable criticism.

As a club, we need to move forward and acquiring a new right-back who will be playing for the clubs for 6-7 years is a priority. We have to drop the sentiment if we want to move forward; that doesn't mean forgetting past heroes, it means making space for new ones to emerge.

Peter Gorman
45 Posted 05/11/2018 at 14:10:28
My question was a polite one with a point, I guess.

In this very thread the criticism of Coleman is described as 'disgraceful'. I personally didn't think anybody had been pointing out his errors out of animosity, but on the match-day thread we had several comments siding with the player vs the 'boo-boys' as if it is very much a need to prove affection.

I guess my point (if I even have one) is a call to a bit more moderation. Good players can play poorly and poor players can play well and it isn't a sin to recognise or opine that a player is off form or not very good.

I thought Schneiderlin was garbage last season and I came to detest the man, but I honestly thought he has played well starting under Silva (though not everyone agrees) and had no qualms saying so. Doesn't do anything to invalidate my previous criticism.

I think my point might actually be to direct our passion for the club at the club instead of each other. Maybe. I don't know.

Frank Wade
46 Posted 05/11/2018 at 14:21:11
One point I've made before about player criticism. They are often playing with injuries and unable to perform to 100%. In my opinion, a player should not be in the first team if he is not 100% fit. A less able but fit player from the bench should always be preferred to a player carrying a knock.

There seems to be a 'macho' culture at play where players are considered to be letting the side down if they are not 100% fit. It's also the case at Ireland level with the Roy Keane outbursts at injuries to Walters and Arter.

The most recent instance of this was criticism aimed at Michael Keane last season, as he played on through a horrific almost career-ending injury. Seamus was diagnosed with a stress fracture in his foot after a game vs Wales that he finished. He was not good in the Bournemouth match in which, early on, he took a full-blooded studs in foot challenge (from Charlie Daniels I think). This could have been the root cause of the foot problem he had, playing one game v Huddersfield before going on national duty.

Maybe the Keane macho culture at play 'encouraged' Seamus to take a chance. Maybe I'm wrong and he just got injured in the Wales game but I have my doubts. Osman and Cahill speak of playing through injuries with pain-killing injections.

Fans don't know of these injuries and criticise what they see, a player not performing at 100%.

Jim Harrison
47 Posted 05/11/2018 at 14:44:10
Ed #44,

I don't think anyone is claiming that any player is above criticism, just that criticism doesn't need to be so hostile. Objective observation is part and parcel, but some of the stuff that people say on these thread goes way beyond that.

Calvert-Lewin gets far too much stick. Comments along the lines of "never going to be a premier league level player"

I love that he gave a bit back. Emotionally charged and motivated.

Tony Abrahams
48 Posted 05/11/2018 at 14:47:54
I love Coleman, especially in this modern era, when it's not easy to identify with the players.

Early days, but Silva & Brands do look to be changing the attitude of the players now, though, because, in answer to my own question, I think it's getting easier by the week to identify with loads of our current squad.

Rob B Williams
49 Posted 05/11/2018 at 14:48:35
No need to have all these apologies on TW; if you feel strongly, say so – don't go all soft at the first rebuttal and start blithering apologies.

I just happen to agree strongly with Colin G that Everton should always be looking to improve, if that happens to mean dropping or replacing even long-standing loyal servants, so be it.

We as a club have suffered enough due to pussy-footing around all luvvy duvvy and giving contract extensions willy-nilly.

We should always be on the lookout for the next weak link's replacement and forward planning is what our new management are all about.

I am sure all those in the firing line will be treated with the utmost sensitivity, not alas, as was the case with Distin!!

Onwards and upwards - COYBs.

Jamie Crowley
50 Posted 05/11/2018 at 14:59:39
I named my dog Seamus FFS.

The guy can do no wrong in my eyes.

Cup your hands to your ears all day long, Seamus!

Legend. And for all the right reasons.

Stan Schofield
51 Posted 05/11/2018 at 15:03:38
Rob, I too agree with Colin Glassar that we should always be looking to improve. But that's an entirely separate matter from the essence of what's being said about some of the criticism of players, ie, that often the criticism is overly negative (sometimes at a ridiculous level), knee-jerk (arising from frustration with the Club overall), and ultimately counter-productive if aimed at a player when actually at the match.

Some of the criticism of Coleman has been in this counter-productive category, despite other criticism being entirely reasonable and what we might expect from balanced discussion. The people guilty of counter-productive criticism have no need to apologise, but they do need to stop it.

People can't be forced not to offer ridiculous counter-productive criticism (and neither should they be forced), but we might hope (and perhaps expect) them to think twice, to show some self-restraint and discipline, and ultimately show some responsibility (as opposed to exercising their 'rights') given the aim that we as supporters all have, of getting the best out of our players where we can have an effect.

Mike Gaynes
52 Posted 05/11/2018 at 15:09:33
Kieran #43, and Frank #41, even Tony Marsh and Victor Yu never wrote shit THAT bad. Glad I missed it.

Colin #35, I don't disagree with much you've written except for the word "crap", which I think was never justified for Seamus. And as for Walcott, I think Seamus scorching him a couple of weeks ago for his lack of effort on that Martial goal had the desired effect. Theo made some bad mistakes on Saturday, but his effort to exert defensive pressure was relentless – and effective. He strangled Brighton's defenders on the ball and forced a number of turnovers.

Frank #46, I held fire on Schneiderlin (once one of my favorites) for a long time, expecting him to come public at some point about some injury or other that had held him back last season. It never happened, and when I came to the ultimate conclusion that he had just blown off mentally, I didn't hold back. I don't regret it. And I still don't enjoy seeing him in the lineup.

Mike Gaynes
53 Posted 05/11/2018 at 15:11:00
Jamie, the next time your Seamus lifts his leg on a living room chair, he's just responding to criticism.
Jim Potter
54 Posted 05/11/2018 at 15:32:24
Great player. Greater guy. Coming back from such a serious injury (then compounded by yet another injury with Ireland, on top of the original one) is never easy.

Seamus still requires time to get back to his best. At least v Brighton he was beginning to get there again. If he can remain fit, and therefore get fitter, he will soon be galloping down the wing again, knocking in the great crosses, making his tackles – and chipping in with the goals.

And if he doesn't (he will) – I still love the guy.

Seamus was obviously wounded by some comments he read. Evertonians don't write off their own.

There are tons of bedroom 'journalists' out there writing crap on official fan like websites – and some of the shite I've read on these is truly pathetic. They're not sports writers – they're spotty kids with no mates pretending to be 'in the know' journos.

Sic: 1 + 1 = 3.

Bull.

If you want facts — Seamus Coleman is an Everton great. And that's present tense folks.

Dave Evans
55 Posted 05/11/2018 at 15:36:08
Having aspiration to be a top six side doesn't mean you dismiss players in rote as being fundamentally 'shite' every time they have a few bad games or even a run of poor form. It lacks perspective. To easily dismissing the contribution a player may have made in the past and with no recognition that they could turn things around in future. Like Seamus.

It also lacks foresight. Failing to recognise that some players could develop with age or under new systems. Like Davies, Calvert-Lewin and that Chelsea player Barkley.

We fans can and should criticise all we like. This club means a lot to us. But if criticisms are just a relentless conveyor belt of 'crap player of the week' then other fans will point it out or worse take the piss out of the mob-handed naivety.

By the way... Tom Davies – top drawer box-to-box England player at 25. Gamble responsibly.

Kim Vivian
56 Posted 05/11/2018 at 15:54:12
Completely off topic here but I wondered if any of you merry men (or women) went to Mordor at the weekend for the Rugby League? I mean – are footballers made of glass and those guys made of Titanium or what?

Great spectacle (on TV) – good commentating, entertaining, competitive, feisty but fair, good officiating and a good crowd. What's not to like?

I actually think, if football didn't exist, Seamus might have played Rugby League.

Steven Telford
57 Posted 05/11/2018 at 16:24:29
Anyone who saw anything derogatory in that celebration needs their own outlook checking, and is probably a person who has a fetish to feel offended (unfortunately no short supply of those these days).

No explanation needed, "60 Grand, 60 Grand, Seamus Coleman!!!!!!

Eddie Dunn
58 Posted 05/11/2018 at 16:44:47
Well Steven, he looked angry with the fans. His anger may not have been directed at all and sundry, but a few who have been unkind, but he directed his gesture at the Gwladys Street.

It was ironic that the whole crowd was delighted that we scored, but also that he scored, and he decided to make his point. I am sure he was simply emotional, after the long recovery, the highs of his first game followed by the other injury and somewhat indifferent form since.

He wears his heart on his sleeve, and that is probably why he is loved by us, but I think criticism of his form was justified and like all the others, he has to take the rough with the smooth.

Incidentally, I don't recall a huge fuss when Oviedo was moved on. He bust his leg playing for us, not an International, so you could argue he was even more deserving of some patience.

Football is a ruthless business.

Colin Glassar
59 Posted 05/11/2018 at 16:52:41
Mike 52, I use “crap” to describe many things which are not necessarily “crap”, if you get my gist. Now “shit” on the other hand is reserved for something I really dislike.

Seamus is definitely not in the latter category. I’ve moaned about him recently because he’s set the bar so high for himself and his performances have dipped. I honestly hope he’s now back to his best.

Ron Sear
60 Posted 05/11/2018 at 17:30:11
All Everton players should be under strict instructions never to look at ToffeeWeb.

I can't imagine anything so dispiriting as reading the kind of stuff some people print about players, just imagine how you would feel if you were subjected, day-in and day-out, to the kind of routine abuse that now seems prevalent on social media.

If players under perform, how about creative criticism for a change.

Paul Hewitt
61 Posted 05/11/2018 at 17:48:53
Ignore the doubters, Seamus. They'll be on Richarlison's back soon.
.
Peter Fearon
62 Posted 05/11/2018 at 17:51:32
If we were to buy a player of Seamus Coleman's talents today, he would cost £60 Million, not the £60,000 Moyes paid for him.

And Ron, you're right, but I sometimes see far worse stick elsewhere.

Lawrence Green
63 Posted 05/11/2018 at 18:03:07
I like Seamus Coleman, always have, always will; not the most talented footballer Everton FC have ever had on its books, but a player who represents the ordinary supporter out on the pitch, just like Mike Lyons, Andy Gray, Peter Reid et al have all done in the past.

He reacted the way he did on Saturday because he cares, and cares very deeply about the club he plays for and the fans who support it.

Every player who plays for Everton FC has a duty to give of their best on the pitch, whether they are young lads breaking into the team, bargain buys like Seamus, or the most expensive signings ever. No player at Everton FC is immune from criticism; if they are playing below an accepted level or a level which they are capable of, then the supporters will have a go. Of course, some people over-react and say things that they wouldn't say to a player's face, but that is the world we presently live in – I'm not condoning it or defending it but it is the reality.

Another reality is that ordinary folk often have to put up with criticism in their daily lives, sometimes from workmates chasing bonusses or more usually supervisors and bosses always asking them to deliver more, regardless of their previous record or personal factors that may be at play. If those employees don't deliver the objectives set, they tend to see their hours of work cut or have their employment prematurely ended.

Footballers may be subject to unfair criticism and suffer abusive language from time to time, they are human and it obviously sometimes hurts them, but ask the ordinary person how they feel when they are mistreated in the workplace, such as the firemen and healthcare providers who are subjected to violence and threats on far too many occasions, compared to those experiences a professional footballer, even one that has suffered some abuse, has many reasons to be thankful.


Ray Smith
64 Posted 05/11/2018 at 18:05:07
Frank 41,

Do you know what if anything was done by the moderators for such a vile post.

Brian Murray, if that's his real name, must have a serious personality disorder to post such an outrageous comment.

Missed it myself, as I would have made my views/feelings known at the time.

Brian Murray
65 Posted 05/11/2018 at 18:44:06
Yes, my name is Brian Murray and I have and will be an Evertononian long after the loveable Seamus is just a memory. If memory serves me right, that post was after yet another letdown. Admittedly I should never have used the term 'cancer' in my frustration as a blue.

I concede I didn’t put my point across too well. It’s frustration with the old Everton – not the Marcel Brands version. Also, I concede that Seamus is the exception rather than the rule as in caring as a pro about the club.

Over 50 years through thick and mostly thin has made me loathe the mentality of the last 30 years but I can assure you I want the same as you all. Mainly for my grown-up kids who have hardly seen a derby win – never mind a trophy. Once again, no offense.

Neil Copeland
66 Posted 05/11/2018 at 18:54:57
Jamie 50 & Mike 53, and if your dog slides across the carpet with his paws cupped to his ears, you need to take to the vet or put him on the stage.
Dave Speed
67 Posted 05/11/2018 at 18:56:06
Is it a coincidence that, since Seamus has been back, we are looking a bit stronger each game? No disrespect to Jonjoe, whose time will surely come, but the experience has told, even though Seamus has admitted that he has not been 100% fit.

Let's hope you're doing that celebration more often, Seamus!

Neil Copeland
68 Posted 05/11/2018 at 18:58:38
I really don't know what all the fuss is about, I liked his goal celebration. To me, he was saying “Come on, let's hear you” and the crowd duly responded with the "69 Grand" song. Long may it continue.

I think Seamus has attributes to be one of best captains ever, a fantastic player and great bloke.

Neil Copeland
69 Posted 05/11/2018 at 18:59:57
Sorry, should read "60 Grand".
Dave Speed
70 Posted 05/11/2018 at 19:02:24
Neil - I think you had a Freudian slip with the first one. It's a nice song, the "Grand 69" one. Conjures up memories.
Neil Copeland
71 Posted 05/11/2018 at 19:04:39
Dave, yes I hadn’t thought of that.
Peter Mills
72 Posted 05/11/2018 at 19:08:54
When he scored his goal, I was very pleased for Seamus, and for all of us. It was a great moment, and that's all I'm bothered about.
Brian Murray
73 Posted 05/11/2018 at 19:10:00
Ray Smith (#64). I have no personality disorder although my dad is a schizophrenic. He's good people.

Anyway, we are all blues and might not get our point across as eloquently as others. Here's to a Man City (or anyone) title win and 6-point derby season!! Enjoy your week.

Dermot Byrne
74 Posted 05/11/2018 at 19:10:20
Neil #68. No fuss really, we just want to keep improving and we need to chat about something!

Bet most of us feeling good with club moving in right direction?

Neil Copeland
75 Posted 05/11/2018 at 19:15:56
Dermot, certainly feeling good to be blue and, although I am still a bit cautious, I am more optimistic than I have been for a long time.

It is also a long time since I went to a game where we have lost the lead but I was not at all bothered because I knew we were going to win. In fact, without getting too carried away, the last time I felt like that was the mid-eighties!

Jamie Crowley
76 Posted 05/11/2018 at 19:22:02
Neil @ 66,

If my Seamus pulled that off, he'd definitely be getting a biscuit!

Quite seriously, though, I do not understand what all this fuss is about. I don't think I've seen a better servant to the Club in my short-ish time? Maybe Tim Cahill?

Coleman's reaction was probably 75% "Fuck ya!" and 25%, "Fuck you! I'm aware I've been poor but I bleed Blue!"

I just don't understand what the issue is with any of this, to be honest. I want my players to show emotion. Beats the listless shit we had to endure under Allardyce!

If that reaction had come from some player who's an ass of a human being, thinks he's too good for the Club, and is looking for a transfer while giving 50% effort? Well then light the fucker up!

But this is Seamus Coleman we are talking about here! Surely he's entitled to just about anything, never mind an emotional moment, all the while showing the heart, emotion, and spirit one would normally prefer from a player?

Neil Copeland
77 Posted 05/11/2018 at 19:25:02
Jamie 76, spot on.
Peter Mills
78 Posted 05/11/2018 at 19:28:08
Jamie #76, That is what I was trying to express in my post #72, but you have done so far more eloquently. Thank you.
Jamie Crowley
79 Posted 05/11/2018 at 19:30:13
Peter,

Thank You. Although I'd caution you to never use my name and the word "eloquently" ever again in the same sentence!

Andrew Keatley
80 Posted 05/11/2018 at 19:31:38
Paul Hewitt (61) - Some on here genuinely called for Richarlison to be dropped after his missed penalty in the League Cup shootout against Southampton. Thankfully that school of punishing players for individual errors seems to be something that modern managers like Silva don't go in for.

ps: Has anyone on here ever taken a penalty in a shoot-out? Doesn't matter if the crowd is one man and his dog, a stadium of 40,000, or a TV audience of millions, it is nerve-wracking.

Neil Copeland
81 Posted 05/11/2018 at 19:35:47
Andrew @81, I used to play in goal and faced a few-shoot outs. It is different for the keeper because you have the chance to be a super hero so less nerve-wracking than taking the penalty but still lots of pressure to save it.
Neil Copeland
82 Posted 05/11/2018 at 19:42:00
I remember facing a penalty in a Sunday League game. The lad taking it had his dad behind the goal with a video camera! I thought to myself that there is no fucking way on this earth is he going to score.

He shot to the bottom right corner and guess what? I saved it! and turned round to his dad with the ball in one arm whilst giving a two finger salute with the other. My moment of football glory – very satisfying. We went in to lose the game 5-1!

Marcus Leigh
83 Posted 05/11/2018 at 19:59:00
Give me passion, commitment and end result over complacency, indifference and disappointment every single day of the week.

Despite his protestations, I think Seamus really was having a go at his detractors on Saturday, but hopefully there won't be many of those from now on if he keeps putting in performances and goals like he did against Brighton. Keep it coming, Mr Coleman!

Paul Birmingham
85 Posted 05/11/2018 at 20:24:36
Hopefully Saturdays team performance and three fine goals will help this squad bed in for a very tough winter campaign.

Seamus, may have just crossed the rubicon and found his natural psyche and dynamic again as a player in this game after that terrible injury, 18 months ago.

Long may this form last and, all considered, it's the minimum we need in every game. On balance, he's 30 but as we know no one lasts for ever and if there's any dealings in January 2019, I sense more outgoings than incomings,

The level of commitment shown will be needed by every players these comings weeks.

Some team soon will get hammered; let's see what happens at Stamford Bridge next Sunday.

Anthony Dove
86 Posted 05/11/2018 at 20:34:37
I think the recent criticism of Seamus has generally been very fair
and balanced, unlike the Hibbert and Osman days. Understandably
since his bad injury he is maybe still lacking some confidence, both
physically and mentally. So he is probably more sensitive at the moment to criticism which would have washed over him in the past.

He may never get back to his best but whatever happens he will always be right up there with the very best Everton defenders, and a top top man.

Joe McMahon
87 Posted 05/11/2018 at 20:35:21
Gareth @4. I agree with Colin. With teary Bill around, we always give bumper contracts to players near the end of their careers: Baines, Hibbo, Jags etc. That's why Sir Alex was a winner as he knew when to sell.
Jay Harris
88 Posted 05/11/2018 at 20:43:42
If the criticism stung Seamus into having the best game we've seen for some time, then it was all good – even his response.

Passion and pride are as important as ability.

Dermot Byrne
89 Posted 05/11/2018 at 20:54:45
Neil #78: you just need to see the Live Forum that day.

They equalised but fish jokes continued as I think we also knew we would win.

Great day

Next may be good or shit but no-one can take from me a great day.

Dave Evans
90 Posted 05/11/2018 at 21:18:19
Jamie@76 Good Post.

As you say. It is no big deal that a player with commitment like Seamus says 'eff yer' to his detractors. The event itself is no big deal.

Some posters, however, go further and point out his detractors are just plain wrong and were proved to be so.

Just as those who slagged off the ability of Stones, Gana and Barkley were wrong. As will be, in my opinion, the regular mob on the backs of youngsters Davies and Calvert-Lewin.

Stan Schofield
91 Posted 05/11/2018 at 21:32:46
Neil @83: This was only a school match, but our goalie got injured late on, and the teacher picked me to be in goal for the remainder of the game. I'm not sure why he did that.

Anyway, just before the final whistle the opposition centre-forward, who I remember was (unlike me) a star footballer, got free of his marker and was racing towards my goal. He shoots, and I dived to my right, managing to tip his shot just outside the post. My team mates said great save!

The teacher said, "Schofield, you're in goal for the next match." We lost that one 6-0. I never played in goal again.

Jon Hirshman
92 Posted 05/11/2018 at 21:34:40
In my opinion, and that's all it is, looking at his start to the season,it seems that Seamus has a lost a yard. However, it also seemed to me that he was back to his best on Saturday. True, the back four weren't really tested against Brighton, but they all played well.

As regards to Seamus' reaction when he scored, he can do what he wants. He's a terrific human being. (Didn't he just give 5 grand to that Liverpool fan who was attacked outside Anfield before the Roma match?) He has, over the last 9 years, turned into the best right back in the Premier League.

Just my opinion – don't shoot me for it.

Ernie Baywood
93 Posted 05/11/2018 at 21:36:16
I don't care if he cups his hands to his ears every other week. In fact, I'd be pretty happy if that happened!
Don Alexander
94 Posted 05/11/2018 at 21:38:40
Jamie Crowley (#76), well said! And to anyone saying Seamus was never good enough to attract a Champions League team, how do you know no-one ever tried, as did Man Utd for Bainesy? Might it just have been that Seamus has a belief in Everton rather than some mega-bucks with another team?

This bloke is a top, top professional supporters identify with, Evertonians or not. I wish there were many more of his type, and I'm pleased to now include Michael Keane as being of the right type given his recently disclosed injury history from last season. Those sort of players are needed in any successful club and they need to be heard in the dressing room and training ground, unlike Mirallas and Schneiderlin.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

95 Posted 05/11/2018 at 21:44:40
Kim @ 56 and your reference to Seamus playing Rugby League.

TBH, he would probably find it a bit soft in comparison to his first sport, Gaelic Football.

According to some reports, I believe if he hadn't made the switch to round ball football, Seamus would have carved out a career as a very good Gaelic Footballer.

Kim Vivian
96 Posted 05/11/2018 at 22:02:36
Actually, Jay, I did wonder about that but didn't mention it as it didn't fit my narrative. But Rugby League soft? I don't think so (but I do know what you mean), but Gaelic football is brutal!
Christy Ring
97 Posted 05/11/2018 at 22:05:30
Everyone knows Seamus has blue blood, and the reason for his celebration was the emotion bottled up since his horrific injury, and his goal, and performance was him back to his best and NSNO.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

98 Posted 05/11/2018 at 22:15:31
Just being tongue-in-cheek, Kim.

Rugby (any code), Gaelic Football, Australian Rules.... HUGE respect for all of them.

Premier League prima donas need not apply.

John Dingle
99 Posted 05/11/2018 at 23:08:24
Brian #12. I think Chilwell is a left-back... therefore not a replacement for Seamus.
Frank Wade
100 Posted 05/11/2018 at 23:16:02
Ray (#64), I didn't report it to the mods. I was just so disgusted, I copied the thread in incredulity. The guy is still posting, on this thread above, but nothing as bad as that. Maybe we could ask Jamie's dog to have a quiet word.
Danny Broderick
101 Posted 05/11/2018 at 23:42:28
Modern football just seems to be more critical these days. No-one is allowed to have a bad game, or a bad run of form. The forums go mad if someone makes a mistake, and we see pundits like Carragher and Neville slagging off players for any little mistake – as if they never made a mistake in their careers. Everything is dissected to the umpteenth degree.

This problem isn't unique to Everton – it is modern society. There seems to be an instant judgement on everything. Last week, Coleman was crap. Now everyone is confessing undying love for the guy.

The truth is that Coleman knew his form could be better, but he has always given 100%. Some people felt he should be doing more – he no doubt felt that he was doing all he could.

A bit of adversity can spur you on. I've not been critical of Coleman, as I feel he is our best option at right back. But regardless, you have to admire the lad's determination. Coleman is a spiky individual at times, having a go at teammates and opposition players if he feels it's needed. He was standing up for himself and having a pop back after scoring at the weekend. But we need more of that attitude, not less. How many times have we said we are too nice?

Coleman's form may have been patchy, but all we can ask is 100% effort, which Seamus gives every time he steps onto the pitch. Seamus Coleman is a proper Everton player.

Billy Roberts
102 Posted 05/11/2018 at 23:44:26
I think all Blues and Seamus are singing from the same songsheet every week despite his performances, we know what he represents unlike other players who good or bad performance offer you no insight into wether they like or buy into the club. I personally can't stand the cupped hear celebration as it's normally aimed at opposition fans and is antagonistic; however, this was aimed at the Gwladys Street who were celebrating wildly, so it was a bit off, to say the least?

Unless Seamus was getting noticeable stick from them, I was surprised for Seamus to do this... but, as most posters have said correctly, it was an emotional reaction and something we can all get over quick enough. I read Seamus's comments and that was enough for me.

As for posters being castigated for saying he wasn't very good one game or others saying he needs total support, I'd like to think that's the reason we love ToffeeWeb for the anonymity it provides to talk utter bollocks freely??

Mike Gaynes
103 Posted 06/11/2018 at 02:04:13
Dermot #90, yes, something fishy was going on in the Forum on Saturday.

Must have been something in the water.

I got the last one! Hah!

David Ellis
104 Posted 06/11/2018 at 02:17:36
I think Seamus has been great and will be a good Premier League player for many years to come... but I'd still like to bring in Wan-Bissaka from Palace as a long-term replacement. Seamus does lack some technical ability which is growing more obvious as the team improves. I think, as the club moves up a rung, we can and should do better, and I think over the next 12 months we will.

Kendall brought in Van Den Hauwe to replace the talismanic (and excellent) Bailey in 1984. It was harsh... but it made us better... and winners. Watson in for Mountfield the following year. Lineker in for Gray/Heath. All fabulous players and great servants but we were able to upgrade and so did so.

Gareth Clark
106 Posted 06/11/2018 at 03:55:24
Don't get me wrong – I'm all for Wan-Bissaka; I think he's going to be a proper talent. However, Kenny has been fantastic too.

Getting him in means that someone else's will need to go out - most likely on loan.

A possible plan could be to buy him from Palace & leave him at Palace on loan for a year or two. Win-win for both Palace and us.

Then, in a few years time, we can rotate Kenny and Wan-Bissaka.

Peter Thistle
107 Posted 06/11/2018 at 05:08:46
Get in there, Seamus! Great to see such passion and a release of frustration and emotion, what we want to see from all our players.

You are a legend from you humble beginnings to soaring the heights to become the best right back in the Premier League. Put the last 2 seasons behind you and keep moving forward. We love ya, respect and kudos mate...

Brian Murray
108 Posted 06/11/2018 at 06:56:00
Frank Wade (101). I have explained my outburst (not apology). If I went overboard it's because I care and if Seamus or any blue has a blinder especially at Anfield and we win I'll be first to concede I got it totally wrong.

Until then a display by him vs Brighton doesn't mean much to me. Maybe it's because I'm over 50 and from the city so have seen us conquer any and everyone until it was snatched away from us through no fault of our own.
Rob Dolby
110 Posted 06/11/2018 at 07:58:57
Danny @101,

Most sensible comment on this thread.

Brian Murray
111 Posted 06/11/2018 at 08:20:10
Jamie Crowley post 80'. Therin lies the difference. You have never seen a better servant in your short ish time as a blue.

That doesn't make me any more of an expert on EFC because I'm older. It just highlights that some of us have seen far better and greater servants at the club than some Moyes nearly man.

Just my opinion.
Gerard McKean
112 Posted 06/11/2018 at 09:01:40
100% correct, Rob above.

Very well put, Danny #101!

John G Davies
113 Posted 06/11/2018 at 09:10:24
Danny @101.

Great post.

Frank Wade
114 Posted 06/11/2018 at 10:15:46
Danny Broderick has the perfect closing comment.

"Seamus Coleman is a proper Everton player."

Harry Hockley
115 Posted 06/11/2018 at 12:26:03
Danny #101 – well put, I agree 100%.
James Marshall
116 Posted 06/11/2018 at 12:51:32
Supporters spend 90 minutes calling players every name under the sun, dissecting every minute movement or decision they make and shouting their mouths off about it. When a player gives a bit back, people get all shirty about it. Big deal.

If Coleman has a point to make in response to supporters, good luck to him. The day players completely stop being human beings (won't be long now) is the day the game finally does die.

60 grand, 60 grand...

Eddie Dunn
117 Posted 06/11/2018 at 13:49:08
David Ellis~105, it doesn't always work though, as we won the League before and after Lineker, but not with!
Richard Grey
118 Posted 06/11/2018 at 14:31:55
I've got a lot of time for Seamus, really good honesty and reflection from him. He's got a great understanding of the fans and the highs and lows of football. Hope this kickstarts his season as he is a player we really need to keep improving and coaching the younger players. Nice one, Seamus!
Geoff Trenner
120 Posted 06/11/2018 at 15:30:33
I have a huge amount of time for Seamus as a man as well as a player. I was just read that he has given €5,000 to a fund for the Liverpool fan stabbed when attending the Roma game.
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
121 Posted 06/11/2018 at 16:51:57
Frank (#41),

I appreciate you saving that disgusting comment about Seamus, which does highlight the extreme shite that some of our posters (it sickens me to say they are 'ours') feel justified in posting on this site. For that, there is no excuse — no amount of years as an Evertonian gives you a pass for calling Seamus Coleman – of all people – "a cancer on this club". Utterly despicable comment.

Regarding moderation of such comments, I was puzzled that I had not seen it previously... until I figured out it was actually from the Live Forum, where pretty much anything goes until flagged to us by readers like yourself. As it says at the top of that page: Contact us to report abusive conduct. We'd much rather you used that facility to alert us, and then stayed around to comment, rather than going AWOL yourself.

Such occurrences are thankfully rare, and we try to nip them in the bud. What is more difficult, however, is to embrace the diversity of valid critique, and prevent other fans from being offended by what is, for some at least, a reasonable level of player criticism when our stars are not performing to the required level.

We all resort to shorthand under the frustration that poor form inevitably creates. I know when I said Calvert-Lewin was "useless", that offended plenty of our kinder and more generous posters. The problem was, we were squandering precious chances and losing games because the lad just couldn't hit the ball properly. To that extent, he was useless in his primary role.

Does that mean he is always going to be useless? No. It allows room for improvement. Maroc Silva has used him a lot less since then, and I'm not sure what you need to do to get him a pair of proper shooting boots, but I guess that's the job for Silva and his coaches.

I'd certainly like to see less of the "should never play for us again", "will never make it in the Premier League" kind of predictive bullshit that really is unnecessary. But for many, unfortunately, that's how they quantify their player assessments.

Dennis Stevens
122 Posted 06/11/2018 at 16:55:37
Aye, Geoff #120 I just saw that - good on him for putting his hand in his pocket. Seamus could well be our captain for a few more years, assuming he is getting back to his old self. It's a hell of a recovery considering it would have been an injury likely to end his career back in the day.
Dermot Byrne
124 Posted 06/11/2018 at 18:39:05
Mike...with ya. But, we are all adult enough to fight such garb. Up to us too and it can be done in many ways.
Julie Naybour
125 Posted 06/11/2018 at 19:11:14
Martin Berry – you took the words right out of my mouth. Coleman is one of the best and he deserves time and our support to get back to form.

Also proud of his donation to a Liverpool fan, though saddens me he feels the need to explain. Obviously he is above football rivalries when it comes to important issues. So proud he is one of us.

Tony Abrahams
126 Posted 06/11/2018 at 21:43:47
James @116, I honestly don't think many people go the match to give their own players stick, mate, even if this ends up being the case for some of them.

I hate seeing Schneiderlin anywhere near an Everton team because he just doesn't look like he cares and he has obviously got no good human traits when he doesn't even really break sweat to earn a ridiculous amount of money each week playing for a team most of us would play for for nothing.

But something does appear to be changing for me because the players we have signed really look like they want to be here. They laugh, they play for the jersey, they buy kids little gifts, they go and give their shirts to the fans after every game, and they genuinely look like they want to play for Everton. So big credit must go to Brands & Silva at the minute for this.

Davie Turner
127 Posted 06/11/2018 at 21:44:36
In terms of player criticism, we probably all called a player useless in the heat of the moment. I would tend to give people more leeway at the game or in a live forum as emotion + instant reactions aren't always well thought through.

But a line has to be drawn somewhere. I have read and heard stuff that found the line, ignored it and went for the horizon. Less these days but there was an incident at Goodson where I reported it.

Hibbo and Ossie got some pretty bad abuse. And while I understand the sentiment that Colin and Brian put forward about always looking to improve the first team, thought as fans it okay for us to say player X needs replacing but if player B asks for a move to win stuff, all hell breaks loose about lack of loyalty.

But just on this, Seamus, Ossie, Hibbo, and even Gana who got a bit recently, don't pick themselves. Hibbo was a limited player, but he'd run through a brick wall for the club. Blaming him for not being a marauding goalscoring right-back though is just pointless.

I want players who give their all. If the time comes and they move on or are replaced, they still deserve respect. Some of the stuff about Jags was pretty grim, but he didn't pick himself. Players and player recruitment is a manager and board issue, there may be no room for sentiment when a new player comes in, but blaming the incumbent as he isn't as good as someone from another club who isn't even our player is just daft.

Like Baines and Digne, looks like Baines as first choice has ended. If Baines stays in a new role... great; if he moves or retires, it is his choice... but, if Baines is picked, he will do all he can, but yeah he isn't the same player now as 5 years ago.

Ray Smith
128 Posted 07/11/2018 at 09:16:23
Michael 121

Your post needs no explanation as such.

Such comments have no place wherever you may be and in whoever’s company you are in.

Perhaps I’m being a bit too sensitive, but I will guarantee you that every TW has first hand experience of or knows somebody close to them that has succumbed to that terrible disease.

End of.

James Lauwervine
129 Posted 07/11/2018 at 09:30:58
I don't get to go to games as much anymore, unfortunately, but my experience has pretty much always been that there are 'supporters' at the game who almost seem to be waiting for an error so they can hurl abuse and criticism.

I've had games literally ruined by some idiot next to me screaming and yelling at every tiny mistake. I've always felt it was indicative of someone very unhappy in their life, using football to vent their frustrations.

I prefer to see the supporter role as someone who encourages and hopefully motivates the players and team. Criticising will only make the player more edgy and prone to more errors.

John G Davies
130 Posted 07/11/2018 at 10:01:05
Michael @121,

I have sailed close to the wind on occasion in comments I have made. I received a ban; some justified, some not.

The comment you refer to is a disgrace.

Eddie Dunn
131 Posted 07/11/2018 at 10:01:50
James #129, I also don't get to live games very often but was at the Crystal Palace game in the Lower Bullens recently and the vibe was pretty civilised with just one person (with a loud voice) moaning at anyone who didn't do quite what he wanted. Luckily, we had a late rally and won the game.

I too have had an afternoon ruined by idiots slagging off their particular victim for 90 minutes. They are often too far away to put straight, or in a rough looking group.

It could be my age but I get annoyed at ignorant people at most public events, gigs being a prime example. Mobile phones, tall people arriving late and standing in front of the missus etc, etc.

It happens with all clubs of course. My mate (a Spurs STH) sat at Wembley for a final v Chelsea with his kids, where a fellow fan slagged the team off throughout the game calling them all Cunts. Eventually, a guy told him to stop and the bloke threatened to knock him out.

A nice day out ruined.

Jamie Crowley
132 Posted 07/11/2018 at 13:54:38
Brian at 111 -

That’s a very fair point. Having more years of being Blue gives you a wider lens to be sure.

Regarding Brian -

Personal opinion:

There’s a host of comments on the Live Forum that are “controversial” or “push the limits” in my opinion.

Before a feeding frenzy kicks off (not that it is in this instance, but in general) I think persons should be granted a hell of a lot of leeway commenting during a match. There’s a lot of emotion wrapped up when you’re watching a game, it spills out onto the Forum, but isn’t that what makes the Live Forum so fantastic?

There have been plenty of times - more than I can count - where I type something out of frustration and think, “ya, probably shouldn’t have done that.”

It happens. But for me, it’s what makes the Live Forum great.

I think we should allow it in all its forms, and then not castigate too much if stated in “the heat of the moment.” General aggressive debate is wonderful. Crucifixtion for an opinion, no matter how “blinkered”, not so much.

Brian apologized. In my opinion he didn’t even have to.

Jamie Crowley, Free Speech Proponent.

Stan Schofield
134 Posted 07/11/2018 at 15:50:41
Jamie, free speech is of course great, but it really should be used responsibly (a bit like drinking). I don't think anybody on this thread has particularly suggested any form of 'censorship' of opinion. But at the same time, adult and responsible folks should think twice before submitting something, or indeed saying something.

There's always a balance between 'personal freedom' and 'civic responsibility', but sometimes the balance shifts too much in the direction of unfettered 'freedom'. I wouldn't want to take away anyone's right to be an idiot, but it would be nice to think less frequently "What an arsehole".

I remember encountering idiotic barracking of players at Goodison when I was a kid, even Alan Ball being subjected to it when he hit a bad spell of form. You think, "Put a sock in it, you idiot". Such people are just a pain in the arse, and really shouldn't be at the match.

Jamie Crowley
136 Posted 07/11/2018 at 19:54:23
Stan,

I agree 100%. A much better take and a great point.

Steve Brown
137 Posted 08/11/2018 at 14:45:19
Jamie # 132, the fact that Brian Murray has supported Everton longer than you might give him a 'wider lens' on things but not wisdom. Seamus Coleman is great professional, a humble man and a great servant of this club. I was delighted when he cupped his ears to the fans who have given him stick.

Football fans generally are over-sensitive hypocrites when in comes to dishing out abuse to players then erupting in outrage when they return the compliment. I remember a freezing boxing day match against Man City under Moyes, which I think we won 3-2. Fowler had been getting relentless stick during the game centred around the chant of 'smackhead'. He scored and smacked his head in celebration as he ran away, leading the Everton fans to go mad. For the only time in my entire life, I thought "Good on you, Fowler!"

A player like Coleman might have a dip in form, or even begin to decline before our eyes. It is not a drop in standards to remember everything they have done for the club before you open your mouth to shout abuse at a game or post offensive garbage on ToffeeWeb.

Dave Abrahams
138 Posted 08/11/2018 at 16:01:31
Steve (137), I remember that Man. City game very well and like you I was seething at the Everton crowd kicking off at Fowler, if you give it out you've got to take it back.

IT also annoyed me that the referee booked Fowler for that incident, don't they realise what is going on, you might say they are going by the letter of the law, but give common sense a go now and again.

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
139 Posted 08/11/2018 at 17:53:37
Well said, Steve (#137). I'm ashamed to even read the apologist nonsense spouted in Jamie Crowley's post.
Dermot Byrne
142 Posted 08/11/2018 at 18:22:22
Jamie Crowley, Free Speech Proponent.

Me too. But, like all free speech proponents, we have to respect the right of others to call our comments utter bollocks.

The red line – a difficult & moveable one – is aggression.

But I love it all most of the time!

Jamie Crowley
144 Posted 08/11/2018 at 21:34:58
Steve -

Be assured I agree with you 100%.

Michael -

I don't see it as nonsense in the least. If Brian wants to say, "The likes of him are a cancer to this club. A loser who would shit himself if he ever came within 10 mins of winning a derby never mind a cup."

I've zero problem with that.

To be very, very clear, I don't agree with it in the least. As I've mentioned, I absolutely love Seamus Coleman and I personally believe the stick he's come in for is outrageous and "bollocks".

But if Brian wants to say it, I can't agree with your assessment that myself defending his right to state such tripe isn't his prerogative.

How is that apologist nonsense? I honestly don't understand your logic. I'm not apologizing for Brian, nor do I believe it's nonsense to have the opinion that he can state, or say whatever he wants.

Your sight, and I love it. So make the rules and we'll all abide by them. And it's your opinion. So say whatever you like too. :0)

Free Speech is great, no?

Jamie Crowley
145 Posted 08/11/2018 at 22:05:00
Michael -

One last thing.

Why are you "ashamed" of what I said? Have I embarrassed you, ToffeeWeb, Blues in general, by saying Brian has a right to say what he pleases?

Even if what Brian says itself is a bit embarrassing, garnering ashamed feelings, how is defending his right to state his opinion making you feel ashamed? I thought this was an open, albeit moderated, forum?

I will say if you're indeed "ashamed" of my defense of free speech, I will apologize. But I am truly befuddled why my saying a contributor can state an opinion, and should be free to do so, is something to be ashamed about?

It's the "ashamed" part of your comment that bothers me. And frankly hurts a bit. I'd never, ever do anything to make you or Lyndon "ashamed". And if I do, just let me know. I'll disappear.

Such is the respect I have for two fellows that run a fantastic site where some obscure American can talk about something he loves, with people who actually have a brain in the main and know their subject matter.

Peter Gorman
146 Posted 08/11/2018 at 23:20:44
"I was delighted when he cupped his ears to the fans who have given him stick."

Just to clarify – were fans attending the game giving Coleman stick or do people imagine he reads what can barely be called criticism on TW?

The former would amaze me and no doubt justify the cupping of ears. The latter seems a bit fanciful and more like an excuse to crow a bit of one-up-man-ship on a fan forum.

John Pierce
147 Posted 08/11/2018 at 00:03:31
Better signings and competition for places, the weaker players or certainly the 'out of form' ones show up more obviously.

You could just take your gut, own observations, and say when was the last time Seamus a match 'turner', or winner? How long since he had several good performances in a row? I cannot recall when he was at a high, consistent level. Maybe Bobby's first season.

Or we can be fairer about it and concede, he's 29/30, had an injury which you will never be 100% recovered from. His game is based on acceleration and dynamism, can he recapture that level? We ignored the conversation when it came to replacing Baines and that got us nowhere. The club should recognise when a player is on the decline, Seamus is not there yet but Brands I feel has it covered.

It wouldn't be out of line to say Seamus has more bad days than good in recent times, discussing or raising doubt over his place in the team and or a replacement as good as Digne is what the club should be about. Don't confuse the man with the player.

His performance Saturday was guilded by the goal. He did however attempt some trademark dribbling and got into positions to cross the ball. But once there, his crossing, bar the early pull back to Sigurdsson was dreadful, had he taken more care with his placement Everton would probably be go in at half time in a more comfortable position.

I also think his synergy with Walcott will ultimately cost one of them a place in the team. Both are instinctive players, good athletes however neither are particlarly cerebral. I think to get the best out of either it needs the balance of a player with more craft.

His reaction; good on him. I want my players to give it back to the crowd! Why not? So many footballers are anodyne, social media zombies who have little or no interest to engage with the life blood of the game; the fans.

Bottom line he knows he needs to improve and Everton need to look at a replacement in the near future, no harm in that.

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
148 Posted 09/11/2018 at 01:27:15
I'm ashamed, Jamie, because, as you say yourself, you have zero problem with what he wrote on our Live Forum. and that you felt the need to post in his defence.

You believe he has some right to use this forum to say whatever he thinks. Sorry, but No. You're befuddled because you think this about "free speech". It's not. That's why we ask people to use their real names and take personal responsibility for what they write on here.

Jamie Crowley
149 Posted 09/11/2018 at 03:19:17
You're befuddled because you think this about "free speech". It's not.

That explains it.

TY Michael.

I'll drop the Free Speech banner.

Apologies. I thought this was more an open forum. You needn't worry about my decorum. I'll keep my opinions to myself regarding brazen comments, live forum or post.

Cheers.

Mike Gaynes
150 Posted 09/11/2018 at 06:19:02
Jamie and Michael, I think you're both right.

Everybody here has the "right" to say what they think.

But nobody has the right to evade the consequences for what they post, whether it's being called "utterly despicable" or being banned for abusive conduct.

For the record, I think Brian's original comment was despicable, partly because of my admiration for Seamus and partly because I'm unusually sensitive to the use of the word "cancer." (Brian has since posted comments that I do not find at all despicable, although I may disagree.)

However, to me "abusive conduct" means abusive to another TW poster, not to the players, and bans are only for those who commit the former offense. (Nobody here misses a certain infamous college instructor...)

Jamie, please don't stop being brazen. I love your brazenness, even when I think you're being a bit obnoxious about it.

Michael, please don't stop managing this board to the very best of your ability. I respect the way you've grown in the role since the days when you and I went at each other in a pretty ugly fashion. We still disagree a lot, but we're both more grownup about it, and that's a good thing.

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