Coleman: Fans understand the love I have for them

Great to see that passion – something that a lot of footballers lack!

Keep it up Captain Coleman!

COYB!

Saying that, however, we can't get all sentimental and need to plan for the future. Seamus is now entering the final stage of his career and a replacement needs to be found. Long gone are the days when we would keep great loyal servants on our books well after their expiration dates (eg, Hibbo, Ossie etc). Is Kenny good enough to step up to the plate or should we be looking at young Wan-Bassaka from Crystal Palace?

Great to see Mustard smiling again!!

Unfortunately, I think you're wrong. I think Coleman has about 5 years left in him at Everton. He'll be a starter for the best part of the next 2 to 3 years and then he'll be used in rotation. No need to replace the perfect professional who is also very good.

I think that Kenny is a very able replacement – and will be even better after a couple years as Coleman's deputy. There's no doubt Wan-Bissaka is top-notch, but I doubt we'll go in for him, as there is no real need for him.

As he rightly says, he has been through an ordeal. Hopefully what is now ahead is Seamus returned stronger from the experiences.

If one current player embodies Evertonianism, then it is Coleman. He is entitled to an outpouring of passion.

Those who understand…

And no, he's not entering the "final stage of his career" and no replacement need be found at this point. He just turned 30.

However, yes, we should always be looking at top-quality young players, and Wan-Bissaka is enormously impressive.

Good luck to one of the good guys on continued improvement after a frustrating period.

I have loved Coleman's attitude through most of his time with us and, like many, had fingers crossed for a return to his former heights. Let us hope that he continues in this form.

Everton are currently dependent on a forward who is being played out of his best position, and they have two players for this position on their books who are not considered first choice. Both look as if they are on the way out. Overall, the Everton forward line has a poor scoring rate.

Other areas of the team are playing well except the right side of the team. They play better in the shallow end of the Premier League, but are seen by the top half as Everton's main weakness.

So, sorry, Seamus, you are firstly a highly paid footballer for Everton; if Everton are to progress, they need their highly-paid footballers to be able to play consistently at the highest level. When the likes of Man Utd identify you as a weakness and set up their tactics to exploit this with success, questions still remain.

Everton for too long have bobbed along in the shallow end, ending up mid table at the end of the season. There are still areas of this team Silva needs to sort out and the forward line and right flank should be his number one priority.

Good goal, Seamus.

As for Seamus's reaction. Jaysus, if I was earning my living, regardless of the pay, in front of 40,000 people and an insane media, I would get a bit thick-skinned when someone said I was crap. Even more so if I was working my arse off. I think Seamus's reaction was understated and, if it was most of us, we would probably have stuck up two fingers!

I am the first to moan about the ridiculous amount of money these players are paid but what I do recognise is it does not change you from being a human with emotional vulnerabilities and reactions.

It's idiotic to think that and how fickle some fans are. Being in the Lower Howard Kendall on Saturday, it was great to hear the fans sing his "60 Grand" song.

Perhaps it's time to accept that fact and just enjoy what Seamus and his merry men are serving up for us.

You will always have my backing, Seamus, and so will Jonjoe Kenny, who came in and did more than a useful job of deputising for Seamus while he was injured. Let's not forget about him; too many on here write him off as not being good enough. The lad's only just starting his career, give him a chance, he loves Everton and is a down to earth, genuine kid who will learn off Seamus.

More importantly, he most probably loves Seamus as much as us, because he is one of us.

I love Seamus. I think he's been a fantastic player for us (bargain of the century imo) – and he will (probably) remain our starting right-back for the foreseeable future – but he's not immune to criticism. That's been our problem for the last 30 years, ie, we are too loyal to our loyal players.

The elite managers eg Ferguson, Guardiola, Pochettino etc... identify early doors the players who are showing signs of age and wear and tear. I'm not by any means saying Seamus is finished but alternatives should be identified and signed. Just look at how Digne has replaced Bainsey. Or how Jags has been eased out.

We are a sentimental bunch but that has kept us back. It will be Silva's decision and so far he's shown (Rooney) that he's willing to wield the axe when necessary.

I'm happy to stick with him and Kenny at right back, hoping Kenny continues to improve and perhaps bulk up a little. A hybrid of both would be great. Seamus 5 years ago with Kenny's better touch and range of passing and crossing.

However, Silva doesn't need to be patient and bring players through. We now have the finances to buy better.

Our right side isn't as good as the left (not helped by Walcott not being defensively minded but he's improving) and all Silvas past teams have had strong, technically good, pacey attacking full backs.

Having a couple of ex Barca (albeit never making it as first choice) players shows you what he wants and demands and I wouldn't be surprised to see a top quality 25-year-old right back recruited in the summer. Along with a top striker. Some call it ruthless; others a winning mentality... for me, it's a shame but football isn't a game anymore.

Again, I disagree – top teams replace players with better ones.

Baines will be used in rotation with Digne – and will be a very capable back up. Coleman and Kenny will form a similar rotation over time.

I never said that Coleman is immune from criticism – I agree he has been below par before the Brighton game.

But Everton supporters and football fans in general make rash conclusions about players without giving them a chance. He's just back from a double leg break & working his socks off. Give him a chance – he might surprise you with regards to his longevity.

Same as Schneiderlin, remember him? He'll only play if there's no other choice.

You do not have to explain anything to anyone and all Evertonians love you as much as you love us. You are a fine example of a footballer that will do anything to get your club back to where it belongs.

I thank you. Well done. Enough said.

Partly the service to him was better, but partly it did seem a real change in attitude from the man – he does seem to have been playing within himself so far this season, perhaps feeling his way back into fitness and also getting used to what the new manager expects.

His goal was class, but his celebration less so. I think he knows it, and explains it well – clearly a lot of pent-up frustration there, and it's interesting that the players are very aware of what the fans are saying. I guess if you're playing out wide like Seamus, you can't avoid hearing what's being said by the fans though.

Finally, IMO if the club are serious about pushing into the top 6 or top 4, then we should always be looking to upgrade on our players. The players themselves must know that. I think the likes of Digne and Gomes and Richarlison are a cut above what we've had in recent seasons – Mina hopefully will prove to be the same – and to continue that progress, nobody's place is safe.

Seaumus is certainly approaching the Autumn of his career, and it would be wise to be looking to the future sooner than we did with Baines.

He is a top top human being and not a bad footballer and, like he said, he is a committed Evertonian who I can tell you is desperate to win a trophy – not even for himself but for the fans – believe me!

I hope we get to see the sheer joy on this man's face if it ever happens!

If a player has bad form (and every player does), shouting at them is likely to put them off their game even more. And I don't believe that having paid money to watch them entitles anyone to openly criticise them. You don't have to go to the match, but if you do go then you should act responsibly.

I believe we have a responsibility to encourage them; otherwise why are we supporters? And I don't give a shit about how much money they earn (some people call it 'obscene', but they need to get a grip on reality, and reserve the term 'obscene' for more important things in life).

If Seamus hadn't been criticised, he might have responded differently to his goal. If folks don't want a player to respond like that, don't criticise the player in the first place. Tackle the 'problem' at source.

There is no doubt a fully tuned Seamus Coleman is what every Everton fan wants. He is an irreplaceable asset and embodies the spirit of the club.

As I said when his form wasn't great, it was concerning but he's still the best option we have at right back and that's no disrespect to Kenny but he doesn't offer what a fit and enduring Seamus does.

If Coleman gets back to full form, then we all know we have a hell of a player there.

I posted on his return from his horrific injury that he should not have played the full 90 minutes, but some TW's said Sam and the medical team know what they are doing! Well, I disagreed then and still do.

How many players with lesser (serious) injuries complete 90 minutes on their return? Any bets on none?

There needs to be a back up in case of injury, but hopefully whoever it is will have a long wait.

Seamus Coleman – 11 out of 10 in my book.

I'm reminded of the time that Peter Kavanagh was on the receiving end of some stick from a section of the fans, and his reply was "What do you expect for a thousand pounds?"

For the benefit of younger supporters, Peter Kavanagh was a left winger who was signed from Romford in 1961 for £1,000, his Everton career lasted four months and consisted of six appearances. His team-mates at the time included Alex Parker, Jimmy Gabriel, Brian Labone, Bobby Collins, Alex Young, and Roy Vernon.

I've not read every post on the site, it must be said, but I can't recall reading any criticism of Seamus's iffy performances that didn't fall well within the range of acceptable personal opinion.

I also criticised Theo for leaving Seamus exposed against Man Utd and for that I don't apologise.

He made himself look a right twat but he fortunately scored the rebound, otherwise he would have been ridiculed for weeks.

Keep on plugging away, Coleman, celebrate any way you want fella

I never once gave him a hard time for it as some were, he didn't deserve it for so many reasons, so it shocked me to see some fans laying into him who can't have a clue what he's done for us over the years or have very short memories.

He's a legend and always will be so – don't forget that over a few bad games. He obviously felt he was letting us down with his performances of late, hence the celebrations after his goal at the weekend which showed us he ain't going anywhere anytime soon without a fight!

In my opinion, Seamus, Jagielka and Baines should be given the benefit of the doubt on almost any performance as they've served the club unbelievably well.

Seamus has to accept criticism when he's poor, it's part n parcel of being a well paid professional footballer.

Against man u he was run ragged by Martial, but Silva has to accept some blame, he didn't fix the problem. Myself, I'd have subbed him for Mina and put Zouma across to full-back, see how that worked. Easy in hindsight, I admit.

I believe Coleman has at least 3 good years left in him.

Seamus is a fan favourite, and has been since breaking into the first team eight years ago, but that does not make him immune to criticism. In his interview Seamus criticised himself for being "not good enough" in a few games this season, so anyone (myself included) who suggested he was below his own levels were obviously not that far off the mark. The stress fracture of his foot probably had an impact on his recent form, fitness and confidence – hopefully he'll be back to his very best form for the foreseeable future.

I understand the protective nature of some fans when it comes to their favoured players, but seeing some of the negative comments that our young players like Calvert-Lewin and Davies have received makes me wonder why some well-placed questions about Seamus have been met with such derision.

I saved the thread for later as I couldn't bring myself to comment. Actually, tuned out of ToffeeWeb for a while afterwards.

Brian Murray
25/08/2018 : 18:13:15
Duncan McDine. You can't think of a worse performance from the £60k fella, I could rattle off more than I care to remember and can ask why you love the guy? At a push, it's because he has Mick Lyons type passion for the club and promises "Defo next game... yada yada." The likes of him are a cancer to this club. A loser who would shit himself if he ever came within 10 mins of winning a derby never mind a cup.

We've seen ridiculous criticism before, such as with the likes of Stones and Barkley, and we're seeing it again with Calvert-Lewin, Davies and Lookman, and no doubt it'll happen again with almost any player who hits a bad spell of form.

Perhaps the message is to be as patient with the players as we've had to be with the entire Club over the last couple of decades, cut them some slack, and get behind them. We're supporters at the end of the day, and there's a difference between 'reasonable assessment' of a player and ridiculous and overt criticism.

Wow! That has to be Tony Marsh in disguise.

As a club, we need to move forward and acquiring a new right-back who will be playing for the clubs for 6-7 years is a priority. We have to drop the sentiment if we want to move forward; that doesn't mean forgetting past heroes, it means making space for new ones to emerge.

In this very thread the criticism of Coleman is described as 'disgraceful'. I personally didn't think anybody had been pointing out his errors out of animosity, but on the match-day thread we had several comments siding with the player vs the 'boo-boys' as if it is very much a need to prove affection.

I guess my point (if I even have one) is a call to a bit more moderation. Good players can play poorly and poor players can play well and it isn't a sin to recognise or opine that a player is off form or not very good.

I thought Schneiderlin was garbage last season and I came to detest the man, but I honestly thought he has played well starting under Silva (though not everyone agrees) and had no qualms saying so. Doesn't do anything to invalidate my previous criticism.

I think my point might actually be to direct our passion for the club at the club instead of each other. Maybe. I don't know.

There seems to be a 'macho' culture at play where players are considered to be letting the side down if they are not 100% fit. It's also the case at Ireland level with the Roy Keane outbursts at injuries to Walters and Arter.

The most recent instance of this was criticism aimed at Michael Keane last season, as he played on through a horrific almost career-ending injury. Seamus was diagnosed with a stress fracture in his foot after a game vs Wales that he finished. He was not good in the Bournemouth match in which, early on, he took a full-blooded studs in foot challenge (from Charlie Daniels I think). This could have been the root cause of the foot problem he had, playing one game v Huddersfield before going on national duty.

Maybe the Keane macho culture at play 'encouraged' Seamus to take a chance. Maybe I'm wrong and he just got injured in the Wales game but I have my doubts. Osman and Cahill speak of playing through injuries with pain-killing injections.

Fans don't know of these injuries and criticise what they see, a player not performing at 100%.

I don't think anyone is claiming that any player is above criticism, just that criticism doesn't need to be so hostile. Objective observation is part and parcel, but some of the stuff that people say on these thread goes way beyond that.

Calvert-Lewin gets far too much stick. Comments along the lines of "never going to be a premier league level player"

I love that he gave a bit back. Emotionally charged and motivated.

Early days, but Silva & Brands do look to be changing the attitude of the players now, though, because, in answer to my own question, I think it's getting easier by the week to identify with loads of our current squad.

I just happen to agree strongly with Colin G that Everton should always be looking to improve, if that happens to mean dropping or replacing even long-standing loyal servants, so be it.

We as a club have suffered enough due to pussy-footing around all luvvy duvvy and giving contract extensions willy-nilly.

We should always be on the lookout for the next weak link's replacement and forward planning is what our new management are all about.

I am sure all those in the firing line will be treated with the utmost sensitivity, not alas, as was the case with Distin!!

Onwards and upwards - COYBs.

The guy can do no wrong in my eyes.

Cup your hands to your ears all day long, Seamus!

Legend. And for all the right reasons.

Some of the criticism of Coleman has been in this counter-productive category, despite other criticism being entirely reasonable and what we might expect from balanced discussion. The people guilty of counter-productive criticism have no need to apologise, but they do need to stop it.

People can't be forced not to offer ridiculous counter-productive criticism (and neither should they be forced), but we might hope (and perhaps expect) them to think twice, to show some self-restraint and discipline, and ultimately show some responsibility (as opposed to exercising their 'rights') given the aim that we as supporters all have, of getting the best out of our players where we can have an effect.

Colin #35, I don't disagree with much you've written except for the word "crap", which I think was never justified for Seamus. And as for Walcott, I think Seamus scorching him a couple of weeks ago for his lack of effort on that Martial goal had the desired effect. Theo made some bad mistakes on Saturday, but his effort to exert defensive pressure was relentless – and effective. He strangled Brighton's defenders on the ball and forced a number of turnovers.

Frank #46, I held fire on Schneiderlin (once one of my favorites) for a long time, expecting him to come public at some point about some injury or other that had held him back last season. It never happened, and when I came to the ultimate conclusion that he had just blown off mentally, I didn't hold back. I don't regret it. And I still don't enjoy seeing him in the lineup.

Seamus still requires time to get back to his best. At least v Brighton he was beginning to get there again. If he can remain fit, and therefore get fitter, he will soon be galloping down the wing again, knocking in the great crosses, making his tackles – and chipping in with the goals.

And if he doesn't (he will) – I still love the guy.

Seamus was obviously wounded by some comments he read. Evertonians don't write off their own.

There are tons of bedroom 'journalists' out there writing crap on official fan like websites – and some of the shite I've read on these is truly pathetic. They're not sports writers – they're spotty kids with no mates pretending to be 'in the know' journos.

Sic: 1 + 1 = 3.

Bull.

If you want facts — Seamus Coleman is an Everton great. And that's present tense folks.

It also lacks foresight. Failing to recognise that some players could develop with age or under new systems. Like Davies, Calvert-Lewin and that Chelsea player Barkley.

We fans can and should criticise all we like. This club means a lot to us. But if criticisms are just a relentless conveyor belt of 'crap player of the week' then other fans will point it out or worse take the piss out of the mob-handed naivety.

By the way... Tom Davies – top drawer box-to-box England player at 25. Gamble responsibly.

Great spectacle (on TV) – good commentating, entertaining, competitive, feisty but fair, good officiating and a good crowd. What's not to like?

I actually think, if football didn't exist, Seamus might have played Rugby League.

No explanation needed, "60 Grand, 60 Grand, Seamus Coleman!!!!!!

It was ironic that the whole crowd was delighted that we scored, but also that he scored, and he decided to make his point. I am sure he was simply emotional, after the long recovery, the highs of his first game followed by the other injury and somewhat indifferent form since.

He wears his heart on his sleeve, and that is probably why he is loved by us, but I think criticism of his form was justified and like all the others, he has to take the rough with the smooth.

Incidentally, I don't recall a huge fuss when Oviedo was moved on. He bust his leg playing for us, not an International, so you could argue he was even more deserving of some patience.

Football is a ruthless business.

Seamus is definitely not in the latter category. I’ve moaned about him recently because he’s set the bar so high for himself and his performances have dipped. I honestly hope he’s now back to his best.

I can't imagine anything so dispiriting as reading the kind of stuff some people print about players, just imagine how you would feel if you were subjected, day-in and day-out, to the kind of routine abuse that now seems prevalent on social media.

If players under perform, how about creative criticism for a change.

And Ron, you're right, but I sometimes see far worse stick elsewhere.

He reacted the way he did on Saturday because he cares, and cares very deeply about the club he plays for and the fans who support it.

Every player who plays for Everton FC has a duty to give of their best on the pitch, whether they are young lads breaking into the team, bargain buys like Seamus, or the most expensive signings ever. No player at Everton FC is immune from criticism; if they are playing below an accepted level or a level which they are capable of, then the supporters will have a go. Of course, some people over-react and say things that they wouldn't say to a player's face, but that is the world we presently live in – I'm not condoning it or defending it but it is the reality.

Another reality is that ordinary folk often have to put up with criticism in their daily lives, sometimes from workmates chasing bonusses or more usually supervisors and bosses always asking them to deliver more, regardless of their previous record or personal factors that may be at play. If those employees don't deliver the objectives set, they tend to see their hours of work cut or have their employment prematurely ended.

Footballers may be subject to unfair criticism and suffer abusive language from time to time, they are human and it obviously sometimes hurts them, but ask the ordinary person how they feel when they are mistreated in the workplace, such as the firemen and healthcare providers who are subjected to violence and threats on far too many occasions, compared to those experiences a professional footballer, even one that has suffered some abuse, has many reasons to be thankful.

Do you know what if anything was done by the moderators for such a vile post.

Brian Murray, if that's his real name, must have a serious personality disorder to post such an outrageous comment.

Missed it myself, as I would have made my views/feelings known at the time.

I concede I didn’t put my point across too well. It’s frustration with the old Everton – not the Marcel Brands version. Also, I concede that Seamus is the exception rather than the rule as in caring as a pro about the club.

Over 50 years through thick and mostly thin has made me loathe the mentality of the last 30 years but I can assure you I want the same as you all. Mainly for my grown-up kids who have hardly seen a derby win – never mind a trophy. Once again, no offense.

Let's hope you're doing that celebration more often, Seamus!

I think Seamus has attributes to be one of best captains ever, a fantastic player and great bloke.

Anyway, we are all blues and might not get our point across as eloquently as others. Here's to a Man City (or anyone) title win and 6-point derby season!! Enjoy your week.

Bet most of us feeling good with club moving in right direction?

It is also a long time since I went to a game where we have lost the lead but I was not at all bothered because I knew we were going to win. In fact, without getting too carried away, the last time I felt like that was the mid-eighties!

If my Seamus pulled that off, he'd definitely be getting a biscuit!

Quite seriously, though, I do not understand what all this fuss is about. I don't think I've seen a better servant to the Club in my short-ish time? Maybe Tim Cahill?

Coleman's reaction was probably 75% "Fuck ya!" and 25%, "Fuck you! I'm aware I've been poor but I bleed Blue!"

I just don't understand what the issue is with any of this, to be honest. I want my players to show emotion. Beats the listless shit we had to endure under Allardyce!

If that reaction had come from some player who's an ass of a human being, thinks he's too good for the Club, and is looking for a transfer while giving 50% effort? Well then light the fucker up!

But this is Seamus Coleman we are talking about here! Surely he's entitled to just about anything, never mind an emotional moment, all the while showing the heart, emotion, and spirit one would normally prefer from a player?

Thank You. Although I'd caution you to never use my name and the word "eloquently" ever again in the same sentence!

ps: Has anyone on here ever taken a penalty in a shoot-out? Doesn't matter if the crowd is one man and his dog, a stadium of 40,000, or a TV audience of millions, it is nerve-wracking.

He shot to the bottom right corner and guess what? I saved it! and turned round to his dad with the ball in one arm whilst giving a two finger salute with the other. My moment of football glory – very satisfying. We went in to lose the game 5-1!

Despite his protestations, I think Seamus really was having a go at his detractors on Saturday, but hopefully there won't be many of those from now on if he keeps putting in performances and goals like he did against Brighton. Keep it coming, Mr Coleman!

Seamus, may have just crossed the rubicon and found his natural psyche and dynamic again as a player in this game after that terrible injury, 18 months ago.

Long may this form last and, all considered, it's the minimum we need in every game. On balance, he's 30 but as we know no one lasts for ever and if there's any dealings in January 2019, I sense more outgoings than incomings,

The level of commitment shown will be needed by every players these comings weeks.

Some team soon will get hammered; let's see what happens at Stamford Bridge next Sunday.

He may never get back to his best but whatever happens he will always be right up there with the very best Everton defenders, and a top top man.

Passion and pride are as important as ability.

They equalised but fish jokes continued as I think we also knew we would win.

Great day

Next may be good or shit but no-one can take from me a great day.

As you say. It is no big deal that a player with commitment like Seamus says 'eff yer' to his detractors. The event itself is no big deal.

Some posters, however, go further and point out his detractors are just plain wrong and were proved to be so.

Just as those who slagged off the ability of Stones, Gana and Barkley were wrong. As will be, in my opinion, the regular mob on the backs of youngsters Davies and Calvert-Lewin.

Anyway, just before the final whistle the opposition centre-forward, who I remember was (unlike me) a star footballer, got free of his marker and was racing towards my goal. He shoots, and I dived to my right, managing to tip his shot just outside the post. My team mates said great save!

The teacher said, "Schofield, you're in goal for the next match." We lost that one 6-0. I never played in goal again.

As regards to Seamus' reaction when he scored, he can do what he wants. He's a terrific human being. (Didn't he just give 5 grand to that Liverpool fan who was attacked outside Anfield before the Roma match?) He has, over the last 9 years, turned into the best right back in the Premier League.

Just my opinion – don't shoot me for it.

This bloke is a top, top professional supporters identify with, Evertonians or not. I wish there were many more of his type, and I'm pleased to now include Michael Keane as being of the right type given his recently disclosed injury history from last season. Those sort of players are needed in any successful club and they need to be heard in the dressing room and training ground, unlike Mirallas and Schneiderlin.

TBH, he would probably find it a bit soft in comparison to his first sport, Gaelic Football.

According to some reports, I believe if he hadn't made the switch to round ball football, Seamus would have carved out a career as a very good Gaelic Footballer.

Rugby (any code), Gaelic Football, Australian Rules.... HUGE respect for all of them.

Premier League prima donas need not apply.

This problem isn't unique to Everton – it is modern society. There seems to be an instant judgement on everything. Last week, Coleman was crap. Now everyone is confessing undying love for the guy.

The truth is that Coleman knew his form could be better, but he has always given 100%. Some people felt he should be doing more – he no doubt felt that he was doing all he could.

A bit of adversity can spur you on. I've not been critical of Coleman, as I feel he is our best option at right back. But regardless, you have to admire the lad's determination. Coleman is a spiky individual at times, having a go at teammates and opposition players if he feels it's needed. He was standing up for himself and having a pop back after scoring at the weekend. But we need more of that attitude, not less. How many times have we said we are too nice?

Coleman's form may have been patchy, but all we can ask is 100% effort, which Seamus gives every time he steps onto the pitch. Seamus Coleman is a proper Everton player.

Unless Seamus was getting noticeable stick from them, I was surprised for Seamus to do this... but, as most posters have said correctly, it was an emotional reaction and something we can all get over quick enough. I read Seamus's comments and that was enough for me.

As for posters being castigated for saying he wasn't very good one game or others saying he needs total support, I'd like to think that's the reason we love ToffeeWeb for the anonymity it provides to talk utter bollocks freely??

Must have been something in the water.

I got the last one! Hah!

Kendall brought in Van Den Hauwe to replace the talismanic (and excellent) Bailey in 1984. It was harsh... but it made us better... and winners. Watson in for Mountfield the following year. Lineker in for Gray/Heath. All fabulous players and great servants but we were able to upgrade and so did so.

Getting him in means that someone else's will need to go out - most likely on loan.

A possible plan could be to buy him from Palace & leave him at Palace on loan for a year or two. Win-win for both Palace and us.

Then, in a few years time, we can rotate Kenny and Wan-Bissaka.

You are a legend from you humble beginnings to soaring the heights to become the best right back in the Premier League. Put the last 2 seasons behind you and keep moving forward. We love ya, respect and kudos mate...

Most sensible comment on this thread.

Very well put, Danny #101!

Great post.

"Seamus Coleman is a proper Everton player."

If Coleman has a point to make in response to supporters, good luck to him. The day players completely stop being human beings (won't be long now) is the day the game finally does die.

60 grand, 60 grand...

I appreciate you saving that disgusting comment about Seamus, which does highlight the extreme shite that some of our posters (it sickens me to say they are 'ours') feel justified in posting on this site. For that, there is no excuse — no amount of years as an Evertonian gives you a pass for calling Seamus Coleman – of all people – "a cancer on this club". Utterly despicable comment.

Regarding moderation of such comments, I was puzzled that I had not seen it previously... until I figured out it was actually from the Live Forum, where pretty much anything goes until flagged to us by readers like yourself. As it says at the top of that page: Contact us to report abusive conduct. We'd much rather you used that facility to alert us, and then stayed around to comment, rather than going AWOL yourself.

Such occurrences are thankfully rare, and we try to nip them in the bud. What is more difficult, however, is to embrace the diversity of valid critique, and prevent other fans from being offended by what is, for some at least, a reasonable level of player criticism when our stars are not performing to the required level.

We all resort to shorthand under the frustration that poor form inevitably creates. I know when I said Calvert-Lewin was "useless", that offended plenty of our kinder and more generous posters. The problem was, we were squandering precious chances and losing games because the lad just couldn't hit the ball properly. To that extent, he was useless in his primary role.

Does that mean he is always going to be useless? No. It allows room for improvement. Maroc Silva has used him a lot less since then, and I'm not sure what you need to do to get him a pair of proper shooting boots, but I guess that's the job for Silva and his coaches.

I'd certainly like to see less of the "should never play for us again", "will never make it in the Premier League" kind of predictive bullshit that really is unnecessary. But for many, unfortunately, that's how they quantify their player assessments.

Also proud of his donation to a Liverpool fan, though saddens me he feels the need to explain. Obviously he is above football rivalries when it comes to important issues. So proud he is one of us.

I hate seeing Schneiderlin anywhere near an Everton team because he just doesn't look like he cares and he has obviously got no good human traits when he doesn't even really break sweat to earn a ridiculous amount of money each week playing for a team most of us would play for for nothing.

But something does appear to be changing for me because the players we have signed really look like they want to be here. They laugh, they play for the jersey, they buy kids little gifts, they go and give their shirts to the fans after every game, and they genuinely look like they want to play for Everton. So big credit must go to Brands & Silva at the minute for this.

But a line has to be drawn somewhere. I have read and heard stuff that found the line, ignored it and went for the horizon. Less these days but there was an incident at Goodson where I reported it.

Hibbo and Ossie got some pretty bad abuse. And while I understand the sentiment that Colin and Brian put forward about always looking to improve the first team, thought as fans it okay for us to say player X needs replacing but if player B asks for a move to win stuff, all hell breaks loose about lack of loyalty.

But just on this, Seamus, Ossie, Hibbo, and even Gana who got a bit recently, don't pick themselves. Hibbo was a limited player, but he'd run through a brick wall for the club. Blaming him for not being a marauding goalscoring right-back though is just pointless.

I want players who give their all. If the time comes and they move on or are replaced, they still deserve respect. Some of the stuff about Jags was pretty grim, but he didn't pick himself. Players and player recruitment is a manager and board issue, there may be no room for sentiment when a new player comes in, but blaming the incumbent as he isn't as good as someone from another club who isn't even our player is just daft.

Like Baines and Digne, looks like Baines as first choice has ended. If Baines stays in a new role... great; if he moves or retires, it is his choice... but, if Baines is picked, he will do all he can, but yeah he isn't the same player now as 5 years ago.

Your post needs no explanation as such.

Such comments have no place wherever you may be and in whoever’s company you are in.

Perhaps I’m being a bit too sensitive, but I will guarantee you that every TW has first hand experience of or knows somebody close to them that has succumbed to that terrible disease.

End of.

I've had games literally ruined by some idiot next to me screaming and yelling at every tiny mistake. I've always felt it was indicative of someone very unhappy in their life, using football to vent their frustrations.

I prefer to see the supporter role as someone who encourages and hopefully motivates the players and team. Criticising will only make the player more edgy and prone to more errors.

I have sailed close to the wind on occasion in comments I have made. I received a ban; some justified, some not.

The comment you refer to is a disgrace.

I too have had an afternoon ruined by idiots slagging off their particular victim for 90 minutes. They are often too far away to put straight, or in a rough looking group.

It could be my age but I get annoyed at ignorant people at most public events, gigs being a prime example. Mobile phones, tall people arriving late and standing in front of the missus etc, etc.

It happens with all clubs of course. My mate (a Spurs STH) sat at Wembley for a final v Chelsea with his kids, where a fellow fan slagged the team off throughout the game calling them all Cunts. Eventually, a guy told him to stop and the bloke threatened to knock him out.

A nice day out ruined.

That’s a very fair point. Having more years of being Blue gives you a wider lens to be sure.

Regarding Brian -

Personal opinion:

There’s a host of comments on the Live Forum that are “controversial” or “push the limits” in my opinion.

Before a feeding frenzy kicks off (not that it is in this instance, but in general) I think persons should be granted a hell of a lot of leeway commenting during a match. There’s a lot of emotion wrapped up when you’re watching a game, it spills out onto the Forum, but isn’t that what makes the Live Forum so fantastic?

There have been plenty of times - more than I can count - where I type something out of frustration and think, “ya, probably shouldn’t have done that.”

It happens. But for me, it’s what makes the Live Forum great.

I think we should allow it in all its forms, and then not castigate too much if stated in “the heat of the moment.” General aggressive debate is wonderful. Crucifixtion for an opinion, no matter how “blinkered”, not so much.

Brian apologized. In my opinion he didn’t even have to.

Jamie Crowley, Free Speech Proponent.

There's always a balance between 'personal freedom' and 'civic responsibility', but sometimes the balance shifts too much in the direction of unfettered 'freedom'. I wouldn't want to take away anyone's right to be an idiot, but it would be nice to think less frequently "What an arsehole".

I remember encountering idiotic barracking of players at Goodison when I was a kid, even Alan Ball being subjected to it when he hit a bad spell of form. You think, "Put a sock in it, you idiot". Such people are just a pain in the arse, and really shouldn't be at the match.

I agree 100%. A much better take and a great point.

Football fans generally are over-sensitive hypocrites when in comes to dishing out abuse to players then erupting in outrage when they return the compliment. I remember a freezing boxing day match against Man City under Moyes, which I think we won 3-2. Fowler had been getting relentless stick during the game centred around the chant of 'smackhead'. He scored and smacked his head in celebration as he ran away, leading the Everton fans to go mad. For the only time in my entire life, I thought "Good on you, Fowler!"

A player like Coleman might have a dip in form, or even begin to decline before our eyes. It is not a drop in standards to remember everything they have done for the club before you open your mouth to shout abuse at a game or post offensive garbage on ToffeeWeb.

IT also annoyed me that the referee booked Fowler for that incident, don't they realise what is going on, you might say they are going by the letter of the law, but give common sense a go now and again.

Me too. But, like all free speech proponents, we have to respect the right of others to call our comments utter bollocks.

The red line – a difficult & moveable one – is aggression.

But I love it all most of the time!

Be assured I agree with you 100%.

Michael -

I don't see it as nonsense in the least. If Brian wants to say, "The likes of him are a cancer to this club. A loser who would shit himself if he ever came within 10 mins of winning a derby never mind a cup."

I've zero problem with that.

To be very, very clear, I don't agree with it in the least. As I've mentioned, I absolutely love Seamus Coleman and I personally believe the stick he's come in for is outrageous and "bollocks".

But if Brian wants to say it, I can't agree with your assessment that myself defending his right to state such tripe isn't his prerogative.

How is that apologist nonsense? I honestly don't understand your logic. I'm not apologizing for Brian, nor do I believe it's nonsense to have the opinion that he can state, or say whatever he wants.

Your sight, and I love it. So make the rules and we'll all abide by them. And it's your opinion. So say whatever you like too. :0)

Free Speech is great, no?

One last thing.

Why are you "ashamed" of what I said? Have I embarrassed you, ToffeeWeb, Blues in general, by saying Brian has a right to say what he pleases?

Even if what Brian says itself is a bit embarrassing, garnering ashamed feelings, how is defending his right to state his opinion making you feel ashamed? I thought this was an open, albeit moderated, forum?

I will say if you're indeed "ashamed" of my defense of free speech, I will apologize. But I am truly befuddled why my saying a contributor can state an opinion, and should be free to do so, is something to be ashamed about?

It's the "ashamed" part of your comment that bothers me. And frankly hurts a bit. I'd never, ever do anything to make you or Lyndon "ashamed". And if I do, just let me know. I'll disappear.

Such is the respect I have for two fellows that run a fantastic site where some obscure American can talk about something he loves, with people who actually have a brain in the main and know their subject matter.

Just to clarify – were fans attending the game giving Coleman stick or do people imagine he reads what can barely be called criticism on TW?

The former would amaze me and no doubt justify the cupping of ears. The latter seems a bit fanciful and more like an excuse to crow a bit of one-up-man-ship on a fan forum.

You could just take your gut, own observations, and say when was the last time Seamus a match 'turner', or winner? How long since he had several good performances in a row? I cannot recall when he was at a high, consistent level. Maybe Bobby's first season.

Or we can be fairer about it and concede, he's 29/30, had an injury which you will never be 100% recovered from. His game is based on acceleration and dynamism, can he recapture that level? We ignored the conversation when it came to replacing Baines and that got us nowhere. The club should recognise when a player is on the decline, Seamus is not there yet but Brands I feel has it covered.

It wouldn't be out of line to say Seamus has more bad days than good in recent times, discussing or raising doubt over his place in the team and or a replacement as good as Digne is what the club should be about. Don't confuse the man with the player.

His performance Saturday was guilded by the goal. He did however attempt some trademark dribbling and got into positions to cross the ball. But once there, his crossing, bar the early pull back to Sigurdsson was dreadful, had he taken more care with his placement Everton would probably be go in at half time in a more comfortable position.

I also think his synergy with Walcott will ultimately cost one of them a place in the team. Both are instinctive players, good athletes however neither are particlarly cerebral. I think to get the best out of either it needs the balance of a player with more craft.

His reaction; good on him. I want my players to give it back to the crowd! Why not? So many footballers are anodyne, social media zombies who have little or no interest to engage with the life blood of the game; the fans.

Bottom line he knows he needs to improve and Everton need to look at a replacement in the near future, no harm in that.

You believe he has some right to use this forum to say whatever he thinks. Sorry, but No. You're befuddled because you think this about "free speech". It's not. That's why we ask people to use their real names and take personal responsibility for what they write on here.

That explains it.

TY Michael.

I'll drop the Free Speech banner.

Apologies. I thought this was more an open forum. You needn't worry about my decorum. I'll keep my opinions to myself regarding brazen comments, live forum or post.

Cheers.

Everybody here has the "right" to say what they think.

But nobody has the right to evade the consequences for what they post, whether it's being called "utterly despicable" or being banned for abusive conduct.

For the record, I think Brian's original comment was despicable, partly because of my admiration for Seamus and partly because I'm unusually sensitive to the use of the word "cancer." (Brian has since posted comments that I do not find at all despicable, although I may disagree.)

However, to me "abusive conduct" means abusive to another TW poster, not to the players, and bans are only for those who commit the former offense. (Nobody here misses a certain infamous college instructor...)

Jamie, please don't stop being brazen. I love your brazenness, even when I think you're being a bit obnoxious about it.

Michael, please don't stop managing this board to the very best of your ability. I respect the way you've grown in the role since the days when you and I went at each other in a pretty ugly fashion. We still disagree a lot, but we're both more grownup about it, and that's a good thing.