Silva: Everton players aren't consistently motivated

Monday, 4 February, 2019 329comments  |  Jump to last
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Marco Silva has intimated that his players are falling short in their obligation to be motivated to perform on a weekly basis and that is being reflected in the team's poor results of late.

Everton lost for the sixth time in nine Premier League games on Saturday as they were out-played by Wolves at Goodison Park and went down to a 3-1 defeat that, coming on the heels of the FA Cup exit at Millwall, has sharpened the focus on both the players and the manager once more.

The Portuguese says he accepts that he is bound to come under scrutiny when things are not going his team's way but he also challenged his charges to be more proactive during matches to rectify losing situations as a collective.

“For me, motivation is [an] obligation,” Silva said in The Guardian. “When you are professional and working in a club like Everton, the obligation is to be motivated, to be focused. You can perform well and you can have a fantastic afternoon, and everything comes good to you but if not then the players are on the pitch and they have to solve the problem in that moment with our plan.

“When you come one Sunday with it all and then the next Saturday it's not there any more, then to me that is where the obligation is: you have to be consistent. And I agree, we are not being consistent during this season. We are paying a lot because of that.”

The question has been raised by supporters who have only seen his largely dispassionate disposition when facing the media whether Silva shows more emotion and frustration with his players behind closed doors.

He kept the team in the dressing room longer than usual on Saturday and he told The Guardian's Andy Hunter that the players know how he feels about a sequence of form since early December that effectively ended their season before the end of January.

“I am not here to be nice,” he explained. “If the truth is needed, if I have to blame I will do that because they have to listen to the truth. I didn't like this performance in some moments, more because at important moments we made mistakes. Then they have to listen.

“I understand that [I will be criticised as manager]. I am not here to find excuses or whine about something; of course I understand there will be questions about me.

“When everything goes well they say good things about the manager and when something is wrong it is normal as well that the manager gets pressure. It is a normal question when you have this type of job.”

Quotes sourced from The Guardian


Reader Comments (329)

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Richard Lyons
1 Posted 04/02/2019 at 06:16:22
They still won’t sack him.
Andy Riley
2 Posted 04/02/2019 at 06:28:47
Sounds like he knows this is the beginning of the end and he'll be gone either in the next week or by the end of the season.
Christopher Morris
3 Posted 04/02/2019 at 06:28:57
I'm in despair. The Telegraph article puts the whole sorry mess in perspective too. What Silva has to accept though is he is not blameless in that he's playing the same formation week in week out, his substitutions are always like for like and if that doesn't work hoy on another striker (Who can't score) to create this kamikaze football, which we saw vs Hudds at West Ham home early season too let's not forget.

The man seems decent enough as a bloke but clearly can't get his message across. Sack him or not, it doesn't really matter as Pep would struggle with this lot. We are a shambles and it's painful.

We have no choice but to go back to some kind of 'Dogs of War' type football until the season is over, get some passion and commitment in our play, meanwhile Mr Brands it's time for you to earn you brass feller.

Team vs Man City (If Fit - 5 across the middle and fight)

Pickford

Kenny
Jags
Zouma
Baines

Lookman
McCarthy
Ghana
Davies
Richarlison

Tosun

Brian Porter
4 Posted 04/02/2019 at 06:39:52
Surely as the manager, coach, whatever, it is Silva's job to ensure the players are sufficiently motivated to do their jobs to the best of their abilities? He can't just expect them to be motivated if he's just sitting back and leaving them to get on with it.

It reminds me of a situation I faced over 30 years ago. At the time, I was a manager for a well known retail chain. I was asked to move to the northeast of Scotland to take over an ailing branch.

On my first day, I found a group of staff, all experienced and competent but after individual talks with each of them I learned that the previous manager had done little or nothing to motivate them to do better in their jobs. He'd been happy to sit in his office, drawing a great monthly wage while leaving his deputy and the staff to do their own thing. It was a rudderless ship, going nowhere fast. No wonder he'd been sacked!

Within three months, I had turned things round and the branch regularly featured in the Top 6 performers out of 132 branches, never missing a weekly target. I had no secret or magic formula. I just rolled up my sleeves, showed the staff I could do their jobs too, and motivated them to take a pride in their work and their branch. In short, the same staff that had been hopelessly failing to achieve the basics suddenly became a top performing branch, and I hadn't brought in any new staff.

Surely Silva should be able to get a performance from a group of highly paid professionals but he has to take responsibility for being the motivator-in-chief. He has to make them want to do it for him as well as for themselves. He needs to be a leader, something I suspect he is seriously lacking in.

He might have a good 'football brain' maybe, maybe not, but if the man doesn't possess real leadership qualities then I'm afraid he's never going to cut it as a Premier League manager or head coach.

Alan J Thompson
5 Posted 04/02/2019 at 06:46:52
Just a suggestion: drop those players whose only consistency is inconsistency. I'm sure the message will get across after one or two have been taken aside and told why they've been dropped. I wouldn't call that not being nice, I'd call that part of doing your job, of which there's not much evidence at the moment.
Kunal Desai
6 Posted 04/02/2019 at 07:18:58
I said on another thread, the basics are not drilled into the players and that does cost anything. Being motivated is one of them. Just look at the demeanour of this chap — it's like he's been living in a morgue, where is his enthusiasm there isn't any.

Wreckless spending, enticing average players to the club by throwing in amazing sweeteners as salaries. Why would the likes of Schneiderlin want to leave? No wonder these players are happy to sit on there and collect a wedge. Motivated? meh!

Jeff Spiers
7 Posted 04/02/2019 at 07:19:09
Brian @4.

Get your self to Finch Farm and sort out that shambles!!

Tony Abrahams
8 Posted 04/02/2019 at 07:29:24
I like Silva but it's just not working so it's obvious he's got to change to keep his job.

I said on TW a while ago that I would sooner have a coach who would stick to his beliefs and wouldn't change but life is not like that. The players hold to much power and they can just throw the towel in whenever they are not happy with something.

Silva needs a leader or two, and he needs to change in the short-term to get the fans back on-side, so I would go along with what Christopher @3 says because that's the only way this is going to change.

Paul Hewitt
9 Posted 04/02/2019 at 07:31:21
So the players aren't motivated. Stop paying them then. Bet that gets them motivated.
Christopher Marston
10 Posted 04/02/2019 at 07:34:11
They're not motivated because they know there's fuck all to aim for when they play the ball forwards. We've no striker!!!!!! What is the effing point when you've got no-one to put the ball in the net?

Majorly flawed recruitment process. The money Everton has spent and wasted is a crime and serious questions need to be asked. £27M for Tosun? £20M for Walcott? £49M for Sigurdsson? £27M for Mina? Shocking!!

John Keating
11 Posted 04/02/2019 at 07:36:06
Everything Silva said about the players is correct. How can experienced professional play so bad week after week?

However, he appears to be trying to absolve himself from the fiasco. He is the one being paid a fortune to motivate them if they can't do it themselves. He is the one giving them absolute shit tactics that are failing week after week and helping to drain what little confidence these wasters have.

We are playing the present Champions on Wednesday surely that in itself, in normal circumstances, would be enough to motivate them. What is the point of players being fully motivated, if the tactics invite disaster and more importantly, everyone and their dogs can see it except the guy making them.

Don't keep telling us what's wrong, Marco — just fucking fix it!!!

Derek Knox
12 Posted 04/02/2019 at 07:47:37
It's like the Captain of a sinking ship blaming everything on the rats! Never in any way shape or form, admitting that he is King Rat.

I wish he would put his knitting down and grow a pair, but I am afraid that is all too late. I still hope he will walk, and not subject everyone to more ridicule and shame on our once great Club.

Christopher Timmins
13 Posted 04/02/2019 at 07:49:50
Coming out in public with comments, although obviously true, about a lack of motivation appears to suggest that he has lost the dressing room. Either he goes or the non-motivated ones are moved on and replacements found.
Annika Herbert
14 Posted 04/02/2019 at 07:54:52
Same old, same old. . . let's sack the manager and start all over again. Then, after 6 months of the new guy, the next witch hunt can begin!!
David Hallwood
15 Posted 04/02/2019 at 07:55:17
Inconsistent? No we're not. We've been gash since the derby, with the exception of the Burnley game.

That points to consistently terrible! There's also been a high level of consistency in defending set-pieces.

Sam Hoare
16 Posted 04/02/2019 at 07:55:28
Players certainly have to accept responsibility. We’ve been poor under 5 consecutive managers. That’s no coincidence.

Managers cannot legislate for Baines giving away that needless penalty against Wolves, or Pickford and Zouma running into each other against Spurs.

Of course the manager is responsible as well but the players should take a good look at themselves.

Philip Jeffries
17 Posted 04/02/2019 at 07:56:27
I just get the feeling that Silva will resign if we get a few hammerings by some decent teams coming to Goodison in the next few weeks, starting midweek against Man City. Imagine the atmosphere if we get humiliated in the derby or Man Utd run riot?

I genuinely hope he turns it around but, like Martinez, he appears to be stubborn and refuses to change to address defensive flaws. The next few weeks will be the making or breaking of Moshiri's captains pick.

Peter Gorman
18 Posted 04/02/2019 at 08:08:43
As much as it pains some to admit, we've not had a team since Moyes. He wouldn't accept anything less than graft.

The whispers on here were that old Bobby became a pushover as he tried to be everyone's mate. Koeman was never at work long enough to motivate anyone and who cares what Fat Sam thought?

To an extent I feel for Silva in so much as this group of players is the biggest bunch of lazy, selfish pricks we've had the misfortune to sign. However, the buck stops with him and, if he can't motivate them, remove the worst and recruit better characters, then he is no good to us.

Derek Knox
19 Posted 04/02/2019 at 08:09:07
Annika @14, the Managers that have been previously dispensed with, and deservedly so, should not have been appointed in the first place. I am just hoping, as I'm sure everyone else is, that the next appointment is the correct one.

I also think it is no coincidence that Marcel Brands has been elevated to Board level, as previously they couldn't spot a good Manager between them!

Trevor Peers
20 Posted 04/02/2019 at 08:22:58
Mourinho came out with the same crock of shite before he left. Unfortunately, once you start blaming the players, it means you're on the way out.

The manager's job is to motivate and give confidence; once he fails, it's time to go. It may be unfair but that's certainly the way it is.

Jerome Shields
21 Posted 04/02/2019 at 08:24:53
There has been a motivation problem at Everton football from top to bottom for years. The Board culture that got us here is still in place, supported by Moshiri's money.

The backroom staff are still in place, with still no evidence of input. There is a nice comfortable network of staff, not playing and non-playing, at the core of the Club who are a bad influence. They would demotivate Zidane.

Non-playing players are still there, on good contracts. Niasse didn't raise a chirp about not being selected. Young players are wanting away. Brands has been promoted to the Board on the evidence of half a season and one transfer window.

Survival in the Premier League is a good season and has been for some time.

The Manager seemed to hit on the right tactics before Xmas, even though he had failed to address obvious weaknesses. Once the opposition teams, starting with Newcastle, worked out the tactics to beat Everton, he did nothing to change them, just changed players. Everton are nearly back to the same team as the start of the season.

The whole lot has got me demotivated myself. There is no 3-year plan. They must be playing cards at any meeting to do with planning. Of course, they are all getting a fry-up. Remember Koeman's big move was to get them to arrive for work on time.

Marco, Why do you not tell the whole truth? You are surrounded by a bunch of tossers and you are the only one who may get the sack, with a couple of million in compensation. Don't worry — Everton are still paying Koeman. . .

Laurie Hartley
22 Posted 04/02/2019 at 08:26:18
I would call the bogey man.

Sorry, fellas, that's the best I could come up with by way of a solution.


Mal van Schaick
23 Posted 04/02/2019 at 08:30:12
So, if the problem is players not being consistently motivated, then it's either the players or the manager that have to go.

Removing the manager and keeping the players will mean that the problem remains.

The answer is get to summer, clear out players and get players in that are motivated and do want to play consistently. At least then, Silva would be given a fair chance to show that he can manage.

Tony Abrahams
24 Posted 04/02/2019 at 08:33:31
Agree Trevor, but let's see how Man Utd finish the season, because at the end of the day Jose Mouriniho is a proven winner.

I don't go to finch farm but I know that if the players down tools and look disinterested, then they are a major part of the problem, and if this happens then any manager is finished, just like Mouriniho was, the minute he looked like he'd lost the dressing room.

It's seems different at Everton; we never hear about players going to see the manager to convince him to change, but I suppose only people that really want to win would do this?

Martin Berry
25 Posted 04/02/2019 at 08:49:18
It's a bad sign when you openly criticize the players; we have seen this many times and we have seen how it all falls apart and ends up. The Manager has to take the biggest part of the responsibility, he is a "Manager" but his formations and tactics are not working.

What surprises me is that we have had hardly any injuries of note so he has had a full complement yet we are still awful. Set pieces, zonal marking, being overrun in midfield are just some of the problems of his own making.

I think he is on borrowed time and has been found out early. I do not like sacking Managers and hope we have a good summer in the market, but that will not change the team's performances due to his tactics.

Eddie Dunn
26 Posted 04/02/2019 at 09:12:50
Part of our problem is that our young players like Davies, Calvert-Lewin, Lookman, Kenny, and Richarlison lack the confidence to ask anything of the coach. Our older heads who we would expect to keep the standard up and question the manager (as in the past) like Baines, Coleman and Jags are all in the twilight of their careers and thus have less influence on future matters.

Then there are the Silva & Brands signings: Mina, Gomes, Richarlison, Bernard, and Digne. These guys know they are his picks and expect to be played no matter what. The loanees also fit into this category.

Then there remains the likes of Tosun, Walcott, Gueye, Schniederlin, and Keane . These players are no longer good enough (Walcott, Schniederlin)) or are out of their depth(Tosun, Keane). Gueye would like to play in Paris.

Pickford is the England World Cup hero and has probably been suffering from delusions of grandeur, but he will settle down to being a good keeper.

So there is the first team squad, full of misfits (on the way out), loanees (no vested interest in us), rookies (no confidence to question things) and those not good enough, (just glad to have a Premier League paycheque. Silva has a job on his hands to motivate this lot. It's a shambles on the pitch and off it.

Paul Mackay
27 Posted 04/02/2019 at 09:18:56
When he talks I have no idea what he is saying, I know English is his second language but its just riddles. I just don’t understand what point he is trying to make. Must be confusing for the non- Portuguese speaking players too.
Noleen Daya
28 Posted 04/02/2019 at 09:20:18
Firstly, Mourinho as a potential manager has come up a few times on this forum. I'm gobsmacked. He is an embarrassment to any club in my opinion.

Winner or not, do we really want a manager insulting our players in the press and having hissy fits with his "third season syndrome"? I for one wouldn't touch him with a 10-foot pole!

Secondly, it is hell watching our team demise into further nothingness week after week, but I think Silva has a point. These players aren't kids. They get paid handsomely and should WANT to go out there and perform – if for no one else, then the fans.

I'm not happy with Silva at this point and am one of those who doubted his ability to take this team forward, but I don't think he's a total disaster – not yet anyway.

Quite frankly, most of the players are just NOT GOOD ENOUGH! They are Championship players. Everything at our club since Moshiri took over has been a total shambles and has left us in the dwang big time. I'm expecting it to be like this for a few years still. All we can do now is to not let it get worse.

Thirdly, I said for most of last year we should get Moyes back. He might not have the glamour of the more modern managers but he could get his teams to perform, and took no crap from any player. I think, with the money we have available now, he might well have proven that he can put together a team with a combination of flare and good old hard work.

We cut our noses to spite our faces by not getting him back in my opinion. Another year of Silva's reign might produce a turnaround of results but if it doesn't, well... say no more!

James Marshall
29 Posted 04/02/2019 at 09:29:32
My feeling is that Silva is just not a very good manager. Without wishing to sound all 'told you so', I never rated him before and didn't feel he was the right appointment in the first place.

His teams have always conceded goals and that hasn't changed. The set-piece defending is still terrible, and he's another one that just refuses to change the system even though it clearly doesn't work.

His teams are rigid, his subs offer nothing but the same, like-for-like, so nothing changes.

He's Martinez Mk II.

Derek Thomas
30 Posted 04/02/2019 at 09:30:23
Eddie @ 26; think you've nailed it there, add to that the fact that they get paid no matter what...

Pull your guts out for £70k, or can't even get on the bench and you're sitting in the stands because your face doesn't fit with the manager... still gets you your £70k.

Fran Mitchell
31 Posted 04/02/2019 at 09:36:43
Expect his sacking after the Man City hammering.
Sam Hoare
32 Posted 04/02/2019 at 09:38:40
I don't think having a pop at the players always turns out badly. Sarri said Hazard needed to do more last week. And he did with two goals this weekend.

Sometimes it is helpful. If you hear it every week, á la Mourinho, then I think it becomes damaging but I think this is one of the first time Silva has a had a direct go. And I think it is warranted.

Chris Watts
33 Posted 04/02/2019 at 09:39:40
Those of us who have enjoyed the way we were playing and could see improvement in the first 10 games must be getting worried now; this is turning into a critical downturn.

What is strange is that we finished 8th in what seemed like the worst most disjointed season ever. The additions have all been good since the summer; it is mind boggling to think we're playing worse.

Silva must take responsibility for this. The fact we never come back after being a goal down is telling. I would love to know what the hell is going on.

I agree with one of the posters above regarding the lack of strikers and effect on morale. In fact, made the same point around Christmas.

Having a great striker means all the work of the other players is capitalised on plus they know he's likely to nick a goal in unexpected circumstances, eg, Vardy against us. It must be soul-destroying to see so many chances missed, the rest of the players must despair knowing there is no-one to bang the goals in. I wonder if this has caused the heads to drop? Doesn't explain our form going off the cliff, however.

ps: Batshuayi looked good for Palace

Darren Bailey
34 Posted 04/02/2019 at 09:42:02
Isn't the manager supposed to be the one to motivate the players, week-in & week-out? It's a fundamental part of their job to make sure the players are always up for it and if he can't do that then I'm sorry but on your bike. Can you imagine a Man Utd side under Fergie playing the way we do? Jesus Christ, forget the hairdryer —he'd blow their heads clean off!!

The last three managers we've had have been shocking. None of them have come across as having any passion or being up to the job. I've said it before that the best football we played was Martinez's first season when he had the foundations of the solid, organised, tight side left over from Moyes mixed in with his own fluid football. His problem was when he abandoned the Moyes core of that side and went all out Martinez. If he'd stuck with what he had that first season it's possible he'd still be our manager.

I'm not saying Moyes is the answer (far from it) but what I'm saying is he didn't take any crap and made sure the team were motivated, organised and solid and that's what we need back.

I'd love for Silva to be the man to do it as I don't want us to have to change things yet again but unfortunately I can't see that happening. Sacking him is more money down the drain. What's the answer? I have no idea...

We have so much deadwood in this squad it's unbelievable. We can't even get rid of the players we don't want not alone the players that are actually currently playing so poorly in the first team. To be honest, I don't think anyone on here would bat an eyelid if we sacked the whole lot of them and started again. I always worried about losing players (Stones, Barkley, Lukaku, Deulofeu) but quite frankly I don't' care who leaves these days.

If and it's a big 'if', Silva left, I'd like someone like Conte or Mancini. Someone with a bit of passion.

Dick Fearon
35 Posted 04/02/2019 at 09:42:06
Is there anything in the player contracts that stipulate the number of hours per day they must be in attendance?

I was thinking that players lacking in motivation or particular techniques could be ordered to put in extra hours while the rest go home.

Mike Doyle
36 Posted 04/02/2019 at 09:53:50
While a return for Moyes wouldn't be the top of most people's list, I think most would agree that he generally delivered a hard-working, well-organised, motivated team who played much better football than we've seen in recent years (especially the games since the Derby which have been as bad as the stuff served up by Big Sam last year).

The complete lack of effort in the second half on Saturday (Gomes & Kenny aside) was painful to watch.

Wolves appear to have achieved a Moyes-type solution – without spending a fortune. Their most expensive signing is Adama Traore (£18M).

Frank Sheppard
37 Posted 04/02/2019 at 09:56:48
If his team talks are as unclear as the quotes in this article, then that might explain many of our performances. Worryingly, we are not “inconsistent” any more — we are consistent in our underwhelming mediocrity.
Phil Sammon
38 Posted 04/02/2019 at 09:57:53
There aren’t enough hours in the day, Dick.
John Hall
39 Posted 04/02/2019 at 09:59:41
I agree with you James – Martinez Mk II. Blames everybody but himself, when we keeр losing he never changes anything.

Far too рredictable in everything he does; how the oррosition managers must love рlaying Everton. Nobody comes to watch us before рlaying us – 10 minutes to take notes is all you need! Have we really become so bad?

Brian Patrick
40 Posted 04/02/2019 at 10:20:37
There is an underlying lack of motivation at the whole club; it seeps through to the playing staff and they can't take the club seriously. Read Gerard's article about Mishiri's reign, a real eye-opener.

Kenwright, Barrett-Baxendale, Big Dunc – would you want these three running your business? I don't blame Silva, it's been the same for years.

But we have ‘Care in the Community'... oh, I mean EitC... so that's great!

[Loads pistol... bang!]

Fran Mitchell
41 Posted 04/02/2019 at 10:22:45
"(...)So when you are talking to me about ambition or motivation or focus, then to me that is the obligation of the player(...)"

So Silva believes neither he nor any of his coaching staff should be motivating his players as, in his opinion, they should already be sufficiently motivated.

I guess he thinks they should naturally know how to defend corners too, thus his refusal to work on this part of the game.

Barring a miracle against Man City, don't expect him to see out the month.

Brian Patrick
42 Posted 04/02/2019 at 10:23:18
Bielsa and a transfer kitty of £300M is needed. I don't want Cocu but I fear he will be the new manager for next season.
Derek Taylor
43 Posted 04/02/2019 at 10:27:16
I opined on a thread yesterday that Moshiri would not sanction funds for the recent window because the emphasis is now on conserving funds for Bramley-Moore Dock stadium. That is undoubtedly the case, although it could well be a convenient cover because he has lost faith in his manager... so no more 'spends' for him.

Unless things get desperate – we need only half-a-dozen points to be safe – I suspect Moshiri will hope to get to season's end before he effects a change of manager. Silva will have to suffer for his wages!

Tony Everan
44 Posted 04/02/2019 at 10:32:13
Is Marco motivated enough to motivate the players?

A massive and arguably the most important job of being a manager is having the ability to motivate... by whatever means.

Take a look at Tottenham, Pochettino has them players fired up week in week out, organised and gratfting as a team. Even without Kane and Dele Alli, the manager wont let them slacken off.

What Marco is saying is an admission that he is failing on the most important part of being a manager.

Take a look at Man Utd's players the last 2 months, now they are motivated, they have the wind in their sails and are unbeatable. 2 months ago they were worse than us.

There must be some inherent discord in the changing room, big disagreements on playing style, team set-up, systems and zonal marking.

Marco is having none of it and the disharmony and failure to understand the instructions in the dynamics of each real-time Premier League game is causing a failure of trust.

The manager is not for turning, the players are confused and exasperated by it all, and the fans have had enough.

Mr Brands needs to get in there and sort it out. Bang Heads!

James Marshall
45 Posted 04/02/2019 at 10:48:56
Is our upcoming defeat against Man City on telly on Wednesday?
Danny Broderick
46 Posted 04/02/2019 at 10:52:34
Let's see a reaction from the manager first. The first thing you do if your team is conceding too many goals is shore up the team a bit. This 4-2-3-1 isn't working. He should name a 4-5-1 against Man City. Three centre-mids and the wingers expected to get up and down.

He should also sort out defending set-pieces. We had Jonjoe Kenny up against Harry Maguire at set-pieces against Leicester. If he insists on zonal marking, we should at least man-mark the opposition's main men. It's not rocket science.

Sam Hoare
47 Posted 04/02/2019 at 10:53:15
I feel its worth pointing out that we are still in 9th. And, although that is not good enough, it is probably only 2 places off good enough. Alot of the hyperbole (I saw someone say this is ten times worse than Koeman for example) would have you believe we were in the relegation places.

The form is very concerning and the performances have not been good but still we are 1 point off 8th, which would represent stasis from last season.

Moving up the ladder in this league is very tough. Even the likes of Sarri, Emery and Pellegrini are all struggling with it this season and they all have more settled teams than us.

I'm not suggesting Silva should stay necessarily, his results over the next two months will decide that, but only that advancing is hard, hard work. Since Martinez's first season, 5 managers have failed to do it. Some of the best performing managers in the Premier League this season – Klopp, Guardiola, Howe, Espirito Santo, Pochettino etc – have had their teams for more than a year at least. Stability breed success. Not always of course, look at Martinez, but often. At some point, we will have to give a manager more time – even if they are really struggling.

For me, it's all about the roots of progress. I saw some in Silva's first few months here. There have been little sign of them since the derby. Time will tell if he can rediscover them.

James Marshall
48 Posted 04/02/2019 at 10:59:54
That's a fair point, Sam. We do need stability and chopping & changing managers every year sets us back every time. I think Moshiri will give Silva time and he won't be sacked anytime soon. I'd also like to be proven wrong and Silva to turn us into a decent outfit.

We just have to suck it & see for the time being.

Tony Everan
49 Posted 04/02/2019 at 11:06:41
Sam, I desperately want him to stay and be successful. I wanted him as manager and I still believe he has the time and resilience to turn this slump around.

He is young and hungry, Everton is the perfect club for him to prove he is a top manager. It's all still up for grabs for him.

The 'roots of progress' are all important. It has come down to whether he has the ability to change what is not working. Continuing with a blinkered approach that is failing week after week will lead to his early demise.

Len Hawkins
50 Posted 04/02/2019 at 11:08:14
This is the time for the Board to start taking some responsibility. Firstly the whole playing, managing and training staff should be assembled.

The Financial Director, Club Solicitor and the Owner at a table with all the contracts and a shredder, the message given is that all wages stop until the lot of them start to show motivation and pride in working for Everton Football Club Co Ltd — any one of them who refuses should be thanked for their services and handed their contract to place through the shredder.

Obviously, the tearful clown of a Chairman should be nowhere near this meeting. Players have too much power and little or no pride... "mercenaries" is too good a word for these thieves.

Jason Broome
51 Posted 04/02/2019 at 11:12:52
Mourinho, Sarri... and now Silva.

When will managers learn? Never publicly criticize your players!!! If you think they weren't motivated before, they surely won't be now.

As mentioned above, I also think he knows this is the end and he, like the other two, is absolving himself by blame-shifting.

Eddie Dunn
52 Posted 04/02/2019 at 11:13:14
The more I look at that side and the coaching staff, the more I suspect that there is a big problem in communication. Silva can speak English, but he retreats to saying simple things – he lacks the vocabulary to get through the complex instructions. I see Duncan sitting in amongst them and wonder if they understand a word he says.

I look at Coleman and every time he has the ball at his feet looking for movement ahead he resorts to a little hand gesture almost appealing for some intelligent play. I suspect there is a Portuguese/Brazillian clique and then the rest. The old lags like Jagielka are now firmly in the past. Baines and Coleman are hanging on by their fingertips. The young bucks Calvert-Lewin and Davies are no longer in their little comfort zone.

It looks like a disparate bunch: Lookman, still fed-up that he didn't get the German move, pissed-off that Walcott gets in before him. Zouma hoping to impress his paymasters back at the Bridge. Gomes wondering why he is expected to run so much more in such a cold place.

It looks like lots of them are unhappy, lost, bewildered even. The tactics must be doing the defender's heads-in.

One day we may find out... when Baines writes his autobiography, but it's plain as day that things just ain't right behind the scenes.

Dermot Byrne
53 Posted 04/02/2019 at 11:13:15
Love it, Len.
John Hammond
54 Posted 04/02/2019 at 11:13:52
There's no way Moshiri will sack him unless we drop like a stone towards the relegation zone.

A core of this squad have not been good enough for the last few seasons and motivation always seems to crop up, no matter who the manager is, so what does that tell us?

Silva's tactics and defensive failures have compounded the situation so it's no surprise we're in the position we are. I'm against sacking now and, if we can somehow recover to have a decent end to the season, then I'd like to see what we do in the summer.

Sam Hoare
55 Posted 04/02/2019 at 11:20:40
Tony @49, the blinkered approach thing is difficult. Of course, it's incredibly frustrating seeing the same approach trotted out week after week to no avail, almost as frustrating as seeing fans on here using that Einstein (or Mark Twain) quote every week too!

However, Klopp had a system he wanted to implement at the RS. The first season, it did not work well. They finished 8th and there were plenty of fans calling for his head. Second and third season it worked a lot better. Fourth season and they sadly have a great shot at winning the Premier League. He persevered with the same philosophy until the players (and the squad he could assemble) could make it work.

I'm not suggesting that Silva is the next Klopp. The best managers even if they have a 'philosophy' have to be flexible within that if things are truly broken. (I do believe Silva has tinkered with our marking and that we are not doing purely zonal marking like we were at the start of the season.)

But some of the best managers will persevere with their systems even when results go against them. They believe that, when the players get it right, the club will prosper. The difficulty is when to give them that time and when not. Which brings us back to the roots of progress.

Jason Broome
56 Posted 04/02/2019 at 11:22:22
Just a thought.

Wouldn't it be ironic if Cardiff City stayed up due to a newly motivated and invigorated Niasse??

Daniel A Johnson
57 Posted 04/02/2019 at 11:26:59
Bravo, SIlva, for calling out the players. They have been under-performing for years now under successive managers.

Well done!

Simon Smith
58 Posted 04/02/2019 at 11:44:08
Silva needs to change up and quick.

We have a successful U23 squad there who he could start cherry-picking from.

Lookman when played looks motivated, certainly more motivated than Walcott. Kenny currently looks a better fit than Coleman. Baningime looked a viable option before being loaned out, McCarthy has always worked hard when played no matter who has managed us. Bernard works his socks off every time I see him.

Maybe Silva should pick a team with more youth so he can motivate them:

Pickford
Kenny Keane Mina or Zouma Digne
Davies Gana
Lookman Bernard
Calvert-Lewin Richarlison

Michael Lynch
59 Posted 04/02/2019 at 11:44:28
Either we've been conned blind by every club for every player we've signed in the last two years, or we have a reasonably able bunch of players. My guess is the latter.

Somewhere amongst the group is a team that can perform on the pitch, but our manager seems unable to get a tune out of them.

And it will cost far less and be far less disruptive to sack one more manager than to try to move on a dozen underperforming, overpaid players. So Silva will go.

Michael Lynch
60 Posted 04/02/2019 at 11:51:21
Sam @55 – Klopp finished 8th in his first season, but took the club to a European final and a domestic final. He clearly had a style that could succeed, and he's been tweaking the playing staff ever since to get to where they are now.

Silva is a million miles from where Klopp was in that first season. Make that a billion miles.

Nicholas Ryan
61 Posted 04/02/2019 at 11:51:54
If the Chief Executive of a company says: "My staff are not motivated," wouldn't the response be: "Well, you'd better resign, 'cos it's your job to motivate them!"
Dave Abrahams
62 Posted 04/02/2019 at 11:58:54
I think the manager and the players should both have a good look at themselves and talk it out in a gloves-off meeting. Let them clear the air – what they understand and more importantly what they don't, give their say-so on what playing plans should be – because there doesn't look like there is any plan or system getting played at the moment.

Let's be honest, a lot of the players seemed to be going through the motions on Saturday, apart from, to me, Kenny, Gomes and Zouma. Some looked scared, some looked terrified, they just seemed resigned to losing.

We only need a few points to be safe, we need some fight and players fighting to get them. There just doesn't seem any real interest in any teamwork or camaraderie in this squad.

Cardiff City look like they are too far behind us to catch us, well they are fighting for a lad who never even played for them and they have a man who will not accept any slackers in his team, what are our players fighting for and who is behind them to make them fight?

Mr Brands should get this part of the club sorted out, and very quickly, or there could be dire consequences in the very near future.

Paul Newton
63 Posted 04/02/2019 at 12:05:00
Two things:

As Director of Football, Marcel Brands has an obligation to get to the bottom of whatever is behind the problems and SORT IT OUT!!! No matter what the consequences, we can't go on like this and — if his job title means anything — he has to act.

Secondly, some on here have been calling for the return of David Moyes. I never thought I would say this but, as bad goes to worse on a weekly basis, it's an idea that is becoming increasingly attractive.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

64 Posted 04/02/2019 at 12:16:52
This is a dangerous slippery slope Marco Silva is on now. There may be total legitimacy in what he says but, by increasingly repeating in public that his team lack motivation, he not only puts the spotlight on the players, but also himself, from the called-out players themselves, the fans and the board.

His job title is 'manager' (noun); the verb is 'to manage'. It befalls to him to manage the situation and ensure the players are motivated more than he claims.

If, as he says, he believes his players are not consistently or sufficiently motivated to play at their optimum every week, then why has he – by and large – continued to select the same starting XI for consecutive games?

Shouldn't he be sending a message to those he believes are not applying themselves correctly by dropping them for someone who will?

This situation isn't new for our fans. Many have called down the years for more narks, more winners, to be recruited, rather than the 'after you, Cedric' type player that has been on show at Everton for too long.

Now I never EVER want David Moyes back at Everton in any capacity, but whatever else you can say about him, he did two things very well on his watch:

1) He mostly recruited well, did his due diligence and ensured any incoming player was a good fit in the changing room and would scrap on the pitch with the rest of the team.

2) When the team hit a wobbly patch, he would go back to basics to ensure results – as ugly as they might be – came in any way.

He did all this on considerably less funds than afforded to our managers since Moshiri came on board.

I said in the Wolves match-day thread at the final whistle we have too many fireflies in our team. They flicker and fade, flicker and fade, but ultimately fail to illuminate. We need more fire-spitting dragons in the team, like Jonjoe Kenny played when he came on.

Kenny shamed all of his more senior team mates with his performance and clearly is not intimidated by reputations the way he berates them in-game.

Silva's goal for Everton may be an honourable one: to get us playing like Man City or Barcelona. We won't make a quantum leap to achieve that in a single season.We won't achieve that by buying our way to the top. Moshiri is not in the same bracket as the likes of City or PSG.

But we have spunked an unprecedented wad on mediocrity that has not improved the squad in three years. The model under Moshiri to date – sell your best young talent and replace them with poorer players (or in Lukaku's case, not replace them at all); change your manager once (even twice) a year – is not sustainable.

We need some continuity and stability at the club before we can mount a more sustained challenge on the top four places. This comes from having a safe pair of hands in the manager's chair.

No True Blue Evertonian would wish for Marco Silva to fail. If he is a success, the club is a success. However, you would need the patience and fortitude of the Buddha not to be concerned with the mess currently on show at Goodison Park.

The Board cannot remain passive and indifferent to performances and results. And it is those things that will determine Marco Silva's future at Everton. It all rests in his very own hands.

Jon Withey
65 Posted 04/02/2019 at 12:18:20
Sorry to see this rot in the club – but it started by throwing huge money at average players and then hoping a magic manager could sort it out.

It's getting bad-tempered now – that doesn't tend to end well (Mourinho).

To be fair to Moyes, at West Ham he seemed to turn it around, including getting the best out of Arnautovic.

I do think Digne, Richarlison, Gomes, Zouma, Bernard and even Mina are better players than we got last time around – but they seem to be sinking into a similar malaise – we are just so porous in midfield and at the back.

Colin Malone
66 Posted 04/02/2019 at 12:18:54
If I was a good car mechanic and my boss told me to polish the cars instead of being a mechanic, my motivation would drop.

I haven't seen Gylfi Sigurdsson have a great game in the Number 10 position. I've seen him have great game against Burnley, in a deeper role alongside Gomes.

Marco Silva, if you don't change your playing formation, because at this time you have not got the players to play it, there's only one way you're going and that's out the door.

Ernie Baywood
67 Posted 04/02/2019 at 12:21:01
Marcel Brands needs to step up here. There are plenty of problems on the playing side, so just pick one and try to fix it.

Tell Silva he's getting a defensive coach and there needs to be changes in how we defend set pieces.

That one change might just represent progress.

Because it's pointless turning up if we can't defend.

Tony Abrahams
68 Posted 04/02/2019 at 12:21:52
Mouriniho slagged his players off, they got him the sack.

Sarri has just slagged his players off, they won the next game 5-0.

Silva, has now slagged his players off, and I wonder which way it will go?

Fran Mitchell
69 Posted 04/02/2019 at 12:37:05
Sam, plenty of fans calling for Klopp's head? I don't remember that tbh. I may live abroad, but my family is 90% red and they loved him. They loved the style, true energy and had faith it'd come good.

They had concerns about the defense (which was a problem stemming from the Rodgers' years), and if the players could physically sustain Klopp's style over a season. But he was clearly attempting to implement a certain style, and he does have a charisma that you can imagine motivates the players.

Silva, however, has no set style that I can see; he 'wants the team to play attractive, attacking football' – what is that other than generic trifle??

I don't see any 'plays', any sort of system to try and break teams. The players just waltz onto the pitch seemingly without any idea as to what they are meant to be doing.

When we go behind, there is no response. And I've lost count of the times he has made the same desperate substitution of 'striker on for defender' like a kid playing Fifa, ending games with a ridiculous 3-3-4 or 3-2-5 formation that succeeds in nothing.

He has shown zero tactical adeptness, zero flexibility on how teams start, zero skills in motivation, nothing to suggest he can get us out of this malaise.

Stability means having a good manager for a long time... Silva, I doubt is that.

Ray Roche
70 Posted 04/02/2019 at 12:48:34
Fran, to be fair to Sam, there were RS fans on the Radio Merseyside phone-ins calling for Klippetty's head at one time; apparently, he was another Brenda.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

71 Posted 04/02/2019 at 12:49:52
I would like to make another observation on Marco Silva, this time in his defence.

Increasingly, as appears in this thread, some posters are starting to mock and sneer at his English. His English is perfectly understandable, even though he isn't as fluent as some more able 'João Foreigner' coaches.

Being bilingual myself in English and Portuguese, I can recognize when he speaks 'Portugles' – a form of English influenced by Portuguese grammar and vocabulary. It does not make him incomprehensible.

I'm guessing he has plateaued in his English ability, but for sure he is already far more competent in a second language than the overwhelming majority of Brits will ever be.

There is plenty to critique about Silva without resorting to that low blow about his English skills.

Chris Gould
72 Posted 04/02/2019 at 12:50:46
Sam at various,

I am in complete agreement with your viewpoint, but it will become increasingly difficult for Silva to get the time if he continues to lose the fanbase. Moshiri will have to hold his nerve against growing unrest. I hope he does.

I said in August that Silva gets a free hit from me this season as long as we aren't drawn into a relegation battle. He picked up the reins at a time when we are in a mess on and off the field. No top class winning manager will come to us with our current financial situation. We have to sell a lot of players before we even consider spending big again.

Your comparisons with Klopp's early league form are valid, but will be dismissed by the many who already smell blood. A malaise has set in, and Silva needs to find the answers to get the players out of their slumber.

The players also need to be told in no uncertain terms that the manager is here to stay and not going anywhere. Brands and Moshiri need to make it clear to them that they are all playing for their futures under Silva.

We all saw some very good performances against Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea, and Liverpool. Not enough points, but there was progress and an effort to win. What has changed so dramatically?

The players have lost confidence and belief. Maybe in themselves, maybe the manager, but the club need to make a stand and force the players to look at themselves rather than simply sack the manager.

Whatever Silva was doing before the derby was beginning to work. I doubt he has changed his approach or effort, but the players have stopped believing. They need a rocket up their arses and the manager needs full and committed backing.

The Einstein quote that Sam refers to can also be applied to the decision to sack another manager so quickly. It seldom works. There's sometimes a little bounce with players trying to impress, and then the players resort to type, and the team is no better off.

I think the braver decision is to hold your nerve and give the man your support.


Sam Hoare
73 Posted 04/02/2019 at 12:51:57
Michael @60 finals or no, Klopp won nothing and came 8th, which is pretty poor for them. ‘Billions of miles' = more hyperbole. Not helpful.

Fran @69 I know plenty of kopites who wanted him out. Especially after bad results. There were signs of things to come though, flashes of cohesion.

I think I (and some others) saw some these signs up until Pickford's derby howler. But there have been none since. If they do not return, then Silva will likely be gone.

Mike Corcoran
74 Posted 04/02/2019 at 12:58:41
Just think... if we had got Silva when we first approached him, we might well have been relegated.
Tony Everan
75 Posted 04/02/2019 at 13:00:22
The shit has been spraying from the fan since Lukaku was sold for £80 million and we got Wayne Rooney back on a free to replace him.

We failed miserably then with Koeman & Walsh. They let down the club and Moshiri.

When we sold Lukaku we should have been looking to the stars and getting the best possible replacement in. Koeman and Walsh tried to do it with fancy midfielders and No 10s, which has backfired spectacularly, the unprecedented madness of that period is still producing aftershocks, it has shaken our club to the core.

Then with bullshit panic buying Walcott and Tosun in January just compounded it.

I fear whatever manager comes in will be struggling because of it all. Especially now that the cash has been spunked, a direct replacement for Lukaku and his 25 goals per season is off the agenda.

Sam Hoare
76 Posted 04/02/2019 at 13:01:58
Chris @72, I'm in complete agreement.
Steavey Buckley
77 Posted 04/02/2019 at 13:24:03
The persons who left Everton in a precarious position are Koeman & Walsh — their disastrous buying spree, followed by Allardyce's decision to buy 2 players who have flunked instead of buying a proper striker.

Everton just don't have a striker who worries the opposition and knocks in half-chances. Everton have tried Niasse, Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison and Tosun, but all have failed.

That is the main reason why Everton have failed since Lukaku went. Goals create confidence and belief. Not just knocking the ball around.

John Keating
78 Posted 04/02/2019 at 13:26:07
Chris 72, good post.

The only thing I would like to mention is that if we were to wait until we were drawn into a relegation battle, in my opinion, it would be too late. With the attitude of the players we would likely have, to be in that situation, I very much doubt they would have the bottle to get us out of trouble.

If, and I think it's a big 'if', unless things improve dramatically this season, the Board keep Silva on next season, he should be on a short leash. If, half-a-dozen games in, we are in the sort of run we are presently in, then he would have to go.

Liam Reilly
79 Posted 04/02/2019 at 13:27:10
If the answer to the question is "David Moyes"; then the question shouldn't have anything to do with Everton!

The football on offer up until the 93rd minute an Anfield was promising. The side played well at Chelsea, Arsenal & Man Utd, where with a bit of luck and some better refereeing may have provided a better return, but football is a confidence game and many of this side were here last year and are now littered with nerves.

Whereas earlier in the season, the midfield were confident and showing for the ball and Richarlison was frightening full backs; now its difficult to see anyone look or run into space when we have the ball. It's all too slow again and that's in the players' heads; with the fear of making a mistake.

This was evident for Wolves' third goal when Coleman was gesturing for some movement; eventually pressed into playing a loose pass to Lookman who was dispossessed and they ran up and scored.

That said, the manager has to take some responsibility for the shambolic defending of set pieces. Again on Saturday, Coleman was mismatched against their tallest player who was 1-2 in the box facing the ball; so all Mouthino had to do was clear Coleman's head and it's a free header.

I'd give him the season; then he can have no complaints if it's still poor. He needs to gel the dressing room together and maybe reintroduce McCarthy and even Schneiderlin (needs must - and who by the way didn't start this season too poorly) and I think young Beni would've been an option also, before being loaned out.

A couple of good results would change the atmosphere just as a couple of bad ones turned the season; starting against Man City on Wednesday — and there's also the matter of a derby coming up where Silva can re-endear himself to the faithful.

Andrew McLawrence
80 Posted 04/02/2019 at 13:28:55
Just asking as I'm not sure what the answer to this question is but, as a fan base, are we too hard and demanding on the players, manager and the club in general? Do we in some small way contribute to the lack of motivation by being too critical?

Do other struggling clubs rip the hell out of their club on social media to the same level we do? Maybe it's just how it is these days.

Don Alexander
81 Posted 04/02/2019 at 13:35:36
The squad is shite. Those playing under Moyes have faded with age and injury. Those signed by Martinez comprised the entire spine of a team he'd just got relegated plus Lukaku, a bloke still without the cojones to put a shift in.

Koeman signed over-priced blokes in a bid to achieve a quick fix but the three positions he rightly identified as in need of reinforcement went unanswered by Moshiri and/or the board, thus we and everyone else knew we had easily targeted weaknesses at centre-forward, centre-half and left-back. We're still as weak in all three areas and that should be where the boardroom step forward to take some responsibility.

I know it's easy for the likes of me to spend Moshiri's money but until Brands arrived it'd have been hard to do worse than he has. That said, I still have a little hope that Brands can find a lion-heart or three this summer so that we can begin to coalesce into a competitive eleven.

This season is dead. Next season seems scary.

Tom Bowers
82 Posted 04/02/2019 at 13:36:01
Chris, I do agree somewhat with your take on this matter but we are all pissed that the are not just performing badly but they don't seem to show any evidence in any position that there may be a light at the end of the tunnel.

Yes, Silva to be fair like any other new manager needs time to formulate his own squad and strategies but there should by now be something to show he is on the right track and instead it appears he has no answer whatsoever.

The big question is how long can you give him?

It's obvious that management do not want to embarrass themselves by sacking him too early after the cock-ups with Koeman and Allardyce, although many of us didn't expect much from Big Sam.

The season has been a big bust like so many in recent years and the only saving grace to remember might be an unlikely good performance against RS, however, we had that in the last one until the 96th minute and the Blues were arguably playing better then.

At the moment, every game is a mountain to climb and Silva has to be able to show something different to convince us he has a future.

Craig Walker
83 Posted 04/02/2019 at 13:46:40
Sam, you are right that we are only 2 places off being in an acceptable position. However, 2 or 3 places lower than we are now and we'll be 11th or 12th.

On current form, you would have to say that it is our start to the season where we got points on the board which is why we are currently 9th. If we drop 2 or 3 places then we'll be finishing where Roberto finished during his last two campaigns (11th and 12th).

I see City hammering us and I can only see Watford dishing out more misery on us. We won't still be 9th after those two matches.

There was an article on TW when Koeman and Walsh started splashing the cash asking "Would Moshiri be happy with another 7th placed finish?" I don't remember who wrote it but I remember thinking that even though we'd spent a fortune, I still didn't see us being able to match the usual top 6 sides.

The consensus was that he wouldn't be happy, given the investment at the time in Sigurdsson, Rooney, Keane, Pickford, Klaassen, Sandro etc. With hindsight, I don't think anyone could have predicted just how atrocious last season would turn out.

This season is worse than last in my opinion. We've thrown more good money after bad since, experienced dour football during Allardyce's reign and we now look as bad as I can remember. There are problems all over the pitch and it's fruitless listing them all.

If Martinez was sacked whilst finishing 11th and 12th, performing okay in Europe in one of those seasons and getting us to two domestic cup semi-finals in the other then I don't see how Silva can retain his job.

We were given a footballing lesson on our home turf on Saturday by a newly promoted team. I think he has to go now and we need to think very carefully about our next manager. He has to have experience and be at Goodison for the long-term.

Raymond Fox
84 Posted 04/02/2019 at 13:55:43
You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

We don't know what Silva is like in the dressing room so we really can't say he's failing there. He's calling them out now!

Premier League players especially have been spoiled since kids and get paid ridiculous amounts of money each week; is it too much to ask for 90 mins of maximum effort?

How many of our managers have got to the point were some of the players have taken their foot off the peddle? Everyone since Moyes.

Even Alex Ferguson said before he retired, that hairdryer tellings off don't work any more because you're now dealing with players who are millionaires and they know there's plenty more to come whatever happens.

Our main problem is we have a squad that is a level below the best and we keep buying the same class of player and then asking our managers to produce performances like the top 6 can.

Give Silva till the end of the season, because there's no way we are going down, then assess the situation.

Sam Hoare
85 Posted 04/02/2019 at 13:57:16
Craig @83, I think it's pretty unlikely they'll sack him before the end of the season. If we finish the season lower than 11th, I think he'll be lucky to survive the summer.

For me in a way whether we are 8th or 13th doesn't matter hugely. It's the performances, it's Silvas ability or inability to get us out of this rut. It's wether we can see a coherent plan and team taking shape.

If we are playing as poorly in the final month of the season as we have in the last month, then I shall most likely be on the Silva Out bandwagon.

Eddie Dunn
86 Posted 04/02/2019 at 13:59:16
Once more, just wait until we have played home to Man City, then travelled to Watford (who will be out to get Silva sacked). If the team can come out of those two difficult fixtures with some credit, then they might buy their coach time. With Liverpool on the horizon ready to humiliate us it is imperative that he motivates his team for these games.

I hope once more to see cohesive play, solid defending and points on the board. However, I have hoped in vain all season...

So why should playing the champions, followed a good team ready to seek revenge on the manager that gave up on them, and ten our biggest rivals going to their first title in 29 years — bring anything other than crushing disappointment?

John Daley
87 Posted 04/02/2019 at 14:03:56
A manager hanging players out to dry in public these days is the equivalent of him picking up a brush and painting a huge target on his own back.

The intent is obviously that criticism will serve as a sting to pride and provoke a positive response from his men, but the mindset of the modern player has fundamentally changed since figures like Ferguson, or Moyes, could crack the whip, and it's now more likely to lead to mass mutterings of "prick", a deeper retreat into self-doubt and a further loss of faith in the fella in charge who the squad probably believe should be fronting up and shouldering full responsibility himself.

Quite simply, grit and an inbuilt desire to scrap for everything and anything is not a given any more. Many players plying their trade today have been heavily sheltered and protected ever since they first showed some above average ability with a ball at their feet.

They have been told continually how talented they are, become accustomed to the finest facilities, have had their kit laid out for them, their game time dictated, their diet monitored, their rough edges chipped away, a potentially prosperous future planned out for them if they can just tow the line, conform and approach the game professionally instead of like a pack of footie-obsessed kids desperate for a kickabout.

They have never had their knees grazed from going arse over tit on glass-littered gravel, or literally been battered all over the place by bigger lads who legend has it 'have had their hole and everything', never played from first light to last in tatty PE plimsols with the sole hanging off so it flaps about more than Roger Lukaku's lips during the last days of a rubbish transfer window, or seen their plazzy ball fly over the wall of local mentalist Mad Martin, who likes to mooch about in his dead mum's arl clothes and washes his mullet in custard, only for it to reappear in the back street 30 seconds later, landing with a loud but lifeless 'plop' after being brutally punctured by a big fuck off Rambo knife.

Given the mass seeping through of footballers whose grounding in the game has been more 'structured' than 'street', it should not be surprising that those who have never had to struggle and scrap for every little thing are slightly at a loss what to do when some fucker starts laying into them and everything goes to shit.

Wider societal changes, not confined to the sphere of football, have also thrown something of a spanner in the works when it comes to motivating a group of young pros. It is becoming ever harder to instil a team ethic, to get younger players to understand and accept they are merely part of the all-important whole. The all-encompassing cult of social media has given rise to an entire generation in which individualism is inordinately celebrated and collectivism is for quilts.

Players acting the big-time bellend, posting updates and selfies of themselves in the changing room, under accounts like @therealbillybinliner... before they've even banged in their first league goal, never mind landed a bloody trophy... and fretting more about their fucking Fifa stats for the coming season than they do about making sure their focus is steadfastly set on securing victory for those who stump up their vast salary.

Any manager now needs to get his men to buy into what he and the club are trying to achieve but, for them to do so, he at first needs to offer them a crumb, a chink of light, some slither of evidence that his preferred system and methods can go some way toward actually helping them, as individuals at first and then by extension the team, attain the plaudits and success they so desire. Silva has not really shown them anything of note to date.

At the moment, they more likely feel he is setting them up to fail with his strict adherence to a defensive set up that is leaving them a soft target every time someone simply twats one into the box from a set-piece.

Clive Rogers
88 Posted 04/02/2019 at 14:09:53
We have bought really badly in the last few windows, starting with Koeman and Walsh, followed by Allardyce, and latterly by Silva and Brands.

None of the following should have been signed: Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Walcott, Tosun, Mina, Bernard. All of them, for different reasons, are not suitable for the Premier League.

This is compounded by the youngsters Lookman and Calvert-Lewin also proving not to be good enough. Even Brands seems to have not been aware of the quality required for the Premier League.

Jerome Shields
89 Posted 04/02/2019 at 14:25:59
I just had a terrible thought: Moyes could be our next Manager.

Moyes kept them all in the way they were accustomed to, even had pundits praising him, and the fans where easy peasy, fed with the "People's Club" sop. Ambition Everton could never afford.

I wish I had roared off the roof tops during his time. He is the only one that can get the status quo back for the hangers-on that absolutely dominate Everton Football Club.

Iain Johnston
90 Posted 04/02/2019 at 14:34:48
It's cheaper to pay off crap managers and maintain a nice comfy mid table position than it is to recruit and pay top level footballers.

Many are calling for another ex player in a similar way to Howard mkI or Royle. difference is both had managerial knowledge and enjoyed success under Catterick.

Our shortlist should Silva be sacked will be either Hughton or Phil Neville. The club won't even bother approaching anyone high profile giving them the option to say no anyway.

Sam Hoare
91 Posted 04/02/2019 at 14:37:22
Interesting that in our last 7 league matches or so it has been when we have had most possession we have struggled.

We had significantly (at least 10%) more possession against Wolves, Southampton, Leicester and Brighton and lost all those matches whilst having less or similar possession to our opponents against Burnley, Huddersfield and Bournemouth.

Less passing it around and more getting it forward quickly I think! Get the likes of Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison and Lookman running the channels rather than dropping deep looking for possession.

I wonder how many of our goals conceded are from turnovers when we are in possession, like Wolves' crucial 3rd goal on the weekend?

Jeff Spiers
92 Posted 04/02/2019 at 14:43:52
John D @87. Everything you say is fact. Right to the core. Will done, mate.
Tony Abrahams
93 Posted 04/02/2019 at 14:48:17
Good post John@87, especially with your description of the modern footballer.

Silva has decided to do what he’s done, probably because I think his head was gone after Saturday, and he might have even felt that this was the last throw of the dice, with the way things are going right now.

Most people don’t really understand what application is until it’s too late, but if you can do something one week but not the next, then unless the standard of the opposition improves (Millwall-3 set-pieces, 3 goals) then it’s definitely on the players to find more application, to improve the consistency?

If the players are not happy with certain things, then now the manager has criticised them publicly, I hope the changing room, finds a few men, to sort it out with the manager, rather than shrugs its shoulders “again” because they don’t really feel like it’s really that much of “there” problem?

Peter Jansson
94 Posted 04/02/2019 at 14:56:09
This higlights that Silva does not know what he is doing.

The players are not motivated??

It is your job Marco Silva to motivate the players, noone else, that is your job.

If you don't understand this or are unable to motivate the players you are the wrong man to be our manager!

Period.

Pete Clarke
95 Posted 04/02/2019 at 15:02:05
Silva, for me, is one game away from the sack because, if his team manages to beat Man City, then he has to go.
John Wilson
96 Posted 04/02/2019 at 15:12:52
Stop being so simplistic.

Everton are a progressive team and want European, ie Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, fast-flowing, attractive football. The Premier League have evolved and Everton are trying to get in on that evolution of 'attractive football.' Hence they brought in Silva.

Allardyce's football, Moyes etc...is a relic in the adoption of modern European evolving football for the new Premier League. Man City and Liverpool have created the standard. It's now, accept and apply or fall behind.

It's therefore not about finding a replacement for Silva but finding a solution in Everton to match the modern football. It is psychology to an extent but it is also Everton's batch of Premier League players who have no fight; this is evident if you watch Championship games. I even watched Palma vs Juventus and the way the weaker team battled against the best team really does speak volumes.

European and South American football has largely changed the Premier League landscape. It requires the aggression of the Championship, but also the sophisticated, attractive fast-flowing football from said international countries.

Jimmy Hogan
97 Posted 04/02/2019 at 15:33:35
My guess is that it is a lack of leadership, both on and off the field. As someone else has pointed out here, Silva needs to grow a pair. He also needs to find a captain made of steel and a couple more leaders on the field, all of whom will shout at and "motivate" those other players we have who are either lazy, or whose heads drop the moment we go behind.

Ooh, I managed to get "moment" in there.

John Wilson
98 Posted 04/02/2019 at 15:36:16
"Moment"... is how Portuguese or South American managers speak.
Steavey Buckley
99 Posted 04/02/2019 at 15:36:22
If players on £50,000+ plus a week can't be bothered and Silva can't motivate them, he should resign or sell and fine players who are not motivated. In the real world, firms will sack or suspend workers if they are not motivated to work.
Paul Cherrington
100 Posted 04/02/2019 at 15:38:29
And yet, the new Man Utd manager walks in and motivates his expensive stars instantly. as did the guy at Southampton.

The difference is that they are good managers – Silva is not. If he cannot do the basics of motivating his players, then he really should go.

Paul Le Marinel
101 Posted 04/02/2019 at 15:46:34
Being critical of the players publically, is certainly not going to boost the morale of the team and neither is it going to bring the right mentality.

Marco Silva should be taking responsibility for our poor run of form of late, as he is the manager and chooses the team selection and decides on the tactics for approaching every game.

We are looking far from our best and it's up to him to find a way to get the players motivated if we are going to perform like a proper team and start winning games and not throw away silly points.

But granted, the players have to show hunger, determination, pride and play their hardest on the pitch, giving their best effort in trying to win games and if they don't play in the way that the manager has instructed them to, then they are partly to blame.

I think back to when we played at Anfield and I thought that was the strongest we had performed in a long time at that stage, as we played some good solid football, looked like a proper team and but for Jordan Pickford's moment of goalkeeping madness, we would have mostly certainly gained a point, but I thought we were capable of winning that game as we certainly had our chances.

In going forwards from that game, we should have maintained that level of performance as I really do think that, if we had, then we would be in such a far better position than what we are at present.

The fact that it's all gone downhill since then has been very disappointing and frustrating, as we have not been playing anywhere near our best and going out in the FA Cup against Millwall, signing no players in the January transfer window and then losing against Wolves, is hardly steering the club in the right direction.

There's very little in the way of team stability at present. It gives cause for a lot of concern and I'm not sure that Marco Silva is the right man for the job. If he is not capable of turning things around, then surely he will be told to go in the summer, if not before.

Len Hawkins
102 Posted 04/02/2019 at 15:49:06
Some great thoughts on what is wrong but, without a brutal cull, there seems no way forward. Do you bring in experienced top players who cost megabucks or do you buy promise, like Kendall did, and let them blend in with the good players, Trevor Stephen, Kevin Sheedy, Alan Harper et a?

The problem is, if we have any good players, they are playing like shite, so how can you introduce promising players to get better?

Mrs Moshiri probably wants a holiday or a new kitchen... how must she feel watching the bank balance diminish on worthless crap which, unless they pull their tripes out and prove they are not shite, then the slope is getting steeper and ever more slippery.

Peter Jansson
103 Posted 04/02/2019 at 15:53:54
Maybe the motivation factor also is in the backroom staff. Maybe there are no motivators in the backroom staff either.

Maybe this is an important factor to why players move backwards at our club?

Is Duncan Ferguson a motivator?

Jay Harris
104 Posted 04/02/2019 at 15:57:13
I can't believe the number of posters looking for excuses for Silva. His track record says it all and we are just following his track record. Record number of goals shifted by three teams Everton, Watford and Hull.

I said recently we needed some inspiration not just for the players but the crowd need lifting too. Moyes, for all the flack he gets, did that instantly and on a zero budget.

Man management is not rocket science and neither is creating the harmony of team work. Silva seems incapable of doing this. For me he cant even inspire himself.

No matter what we think of the players most half decent managers would get a tune out of them and don't forget Silva has bought 6 players of his own choosing in. Players don't deliberately play badly and most would be looking for a framework of team spirit to work within.

To me its about partnerships – Pienaar and Baines, Lukaku and Barkley or Delofeu, Jagielka and Lescott etc but I do not see any players working together in Silva's side.

Instead of going on expensive Jollies to Dubai make each and every one of them stand up and sing a song in front of their teammates. That should break the ice if nothing else.

However, Silva is a busted flush and I don't think there is any way back from this.

Grant Rorrison
105 Posted 04/02/2019 at 15:59:15
Pete 95. Haha.
Bill Rodgers
106 Posted 04/02/2019 at 16:01:17
If Silva said with conviction that the problems are deep-seated and long-standing, it will take more than one season to fix, and there will be ups and downs along the way, but I know the route and all we need is patience – then the fans would be behind him and we would tolerate the inevitable mishaps as part of the transition.

But he does not say that. He says that the players lack "motivation". That is not a problem – it's a complete disaster. It shows that the relationships within the squad are dysfunctional and there is no plan underway to fix it.

Henry McDonald
107 Posted 04/02/2019 at 16:03:10
Great piece by top journalist and colleague, Andy Hunter, and usual cracking analysis by Lyndon. To be fair, Silva is right to say that there are players that lack motivation and fight.

If he wanted to win fans over, he should be far more strident in bollocking the shirkers out. Not pointed or personal but a lot more direct in his criticism. We want them to be ashamed of themselves.

Soren Moyer
108 Posted 04/02/2019 at 16:06:04
So. Who should motivate them? Us?
Andrew Clare
109 Posted 04/02/2019 at 16:08:27
Maybe the days of team talks and great motivational speeches pre-match and at half-time are long gone.

Managing a football team is now far more sophisticated and it's more about application rather than inspiration.

Chris Green
110 Posted 04/02/2019 at 16:15:32
I think the thing that frustrates me, is not necessarily that they aren't motivated. They are paid ludicrous wages to do something most people pay to do. The thing the annoys me is their inability to do basic things right!

Robbie Savage on TalkSport Saturday evening, was asking an Everton fan... so what you would do different? The guy didn't really answer.. but my first thought was...

I'd get the defenders to bloody defend!? Watching their biggest attacker win a free header from a free-kick that should be simple to defend, while Keane and Zouma were literally standing and watching, is one of the most infuriating thing I have ever watched!!

I mean.. they are defenders and not one moved to their biggest aerial threat. That is what I would change.

Tony Abrahams
111 Posted 04/02/2019 at 16:16:42
Good points Jay H, I was getting told the other day that Pickford was saying that not only is the atmosphere at Goodison shite, but it’s the exact same in the changing room, every day.
Simon Dalzell
112 Posted 04/02/2019 at 16:16:50
A very damning admission. Basically nailing his own coffin. Not motivated?! What chance have we got without this most basic requirement?? You wouldn't admit to this. He has to go now!!
John Keating
113 Posted 04/02/2019 at 16:16:52
Andrew, there must be something he says because after our usual crap first half we come out, run about for 5 minutes passing to each other, then back to normal.

A 15-minute break to get 5 minutes of effort.

Maybe we need a 135-minute half-time?

Even mentioning this subject should be embarrassing for him.

James Hughes
114 Posted 04/02/2019 at 16:35:12
I think FIFA & UEFA and not just us need to have a good hard look at player contracts. They way they are awarded and the role of agents.

I believe if any club tries to transfer a player then the club must pay the contract in full, if said player has not asked to leave. So they basically get paid twice for the same day. Very wrong!

The club finds it hard to dismiss a player unless they kill the Queen. Otherwise they can do what they want (Premier League only).

Getting a player to put a shift in can depend on what side of the bed they got out of. Look at recent comments from Mourinho & Sarri... motivating a player is difficult. Eden Hazard even had an interview stating he will do what he likes, motivation comes from him not the manager. This all equals very rich and very pampered players if my musings are correct.

I would now ask our American bruvvas to share their opinion. Is it the same over there with their major sports? does the NFL, NBA etc accept this attitude from contracted players? Or do they have the ability to say to players "Start playing or hit the road"? I would love to know


Pete Clarke
115 Posted 04/02/2019 at 16:37:07
He looks lost. Caught in the headlights of an oncoming truck!

I am one for giving people a go but something that he said a few months ago really got under my skin.

We were going quite well ( before the derby) and he was obviously feeling cocky and said something like “We all move on to better things in life at some point” when responding to a question from the press.

He has not got the tactical acumen to get the players at his disposal to do a good job which is obvious when looking at our defensive record. We get overrun in midfield constantly and for me his formations and slow build up means he cares too much about the opposition and is not confident in his own players.

Imagine if he was at Bournemouth with the players Eddie Howe has.

There is always the danger of confidence hitting rock bottom and us getting dragged into the danger zone and Man City may kick us when we're down tomorrow.

Some of the players are not helping him for sure. I would drop Richarlison just on the basis of being a little tart and let them all know that they are fighting for their wages from here on.

It's time for him to grow a pair and do something to justify Moshiri's reason for bringing him in.

Tony Hill
116 Posted 04/02/2019 at 16:37:09
Tony @111, if that's right about the dressing room, then Silva is indeed finished. What a mess.
Jay Harris
117 Posted 04/02/2019 at 16:44:59
Tony #111,

That just confirms what I have been thinking for a while.

We need a strong character who will shake the lot of them up and recreate that togetherness. Silva is obviously not the man.

Craig Walker
118 Posted 04/02/2019 at 16:47:08
Pete @95. Superb!
Simon Jones
119 Posted 04/02/2019 at 16:48:51
Solskjaer has motivated the very same players that the big name manager claimed he couldn't, or fell out with.

Perhaps the problem with Silva is that he doesn't "get" the club and has a lack of vision for the players? The much-maligned David Moyes certainly understood what we were about as a club and a group of fans. I sometimes wonder how well he'd do with this group of (probably) better players than he had at his disposal.

I also think we miss having a real nark in the side, a player who everyone else hates, but all Blues love. I don't see anyone having a good snarl anymore since Rooney left.

James Marshall
120 Posted 04/02/2019 at 16:54:31
Pete @95

I agree. If this team beats Man City on Wednesday, Silva should resign.

Brian Harrison
121 Posted 04/02/2019 at 16:55:45
What Silva has said is no way what Mourhino and Sarri did they criticized individual players, that is what players won't accept. Silva didn't criticize an individual he said the team lacked motivation.

I see some are saying we need a strong captain, the days of a captain going round rallying his players has long gone. Probably Roy Keane at Man Utd was the last one to do that. So maybe those calling for leaders on the pitch can tell me one of any team that has this sort of player? These days these multi millionaires just wouldn't tolerate it, and anybody who did mouth off at his fellow players would get short shrift.

The team are not playing well, that's obvious, and Silva must take a lot of the blame, but let's not forget that 2 World class coaches in Mourhino and Conte couldn't get a song out of their sides the season before being sacked.

I think Sarri is having the same problem that Conte had, when players for whatever reason stop giving their best for whatever reason it's always the manager who gets the sack. So Silva probably knows following the comments from Moshiri at the AGM, if things don't improve he Moshiri the most patient of owners, and it could end in him being sacked.

So let's assume that Silva is sacked at the end of the season and walks away with another £10 million, who would be next on the managerial merry go round that Everton have become. That would be 4 managers in just over 4 years sacked by Moshiri, so only those that fancied a £10 million pay off after 6-18 months would be interested.

But someone who wanted to build a club wouldn't touch us with a barge pole. We are not a big enough club to be able to appoint a top manager, so we would be back to what we have always done gamble on another manager who has won nothing of note but might be alright with a few bob to spend.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

122 Posted 04/02/2019 at 17:01:28
John's post @ 87 makes for an entertaining read and there may be a modicum of truth in some of what he writes.

But to me it reads like an 'awl fellahs' take on modern society and the perceived ills of social media.

We are talking primarily football here, rather than wider society, but there are evidently plenty of players and clubs who do not fit John's stereotype of John's 'yoof of today', or even young adults.

Believe me, the majority of South American – certainly Brazilian – footballers come from the favellas (city 'slum' areas). They grow up with the sight and sound of full-blown heavy weaponry gun turf wars between rival drug traffickers.

A victory in life for their parents is that their children are not killed before their teens, or they avoid being recruited at young as 6-7-8-years-old to be drug mules.

Whilst I can agree to a degree that some young footballers are too molly-coddled, they are the ones likely to fall by the wayside. It is those with not just ability, but with a snarling dog in them that are more likely to make the grade.

And in recent years, we simply have not recruited enough of that type of player. It is something Brands needs to prioritize this summer.

John Boon
123 Posted 04/02/2019 at 17:01:49
I wonder if the players ever read TW posts. That alone should get the players motivated. However, to echo what has been said in 90% of the posts, it is up to the manager to motivate players and get the best out of them. We don't need him to admit to the most ardent fans that he is unable to get the best out of each player and to unite them as a team. We can all see that.

We have become so reliant on Foreign managers that we tend to presume that they will be good and successful in the Premier League. That is absolute nonsense.

Many have not been a success and language may have contributed to the problems they faced. Some overcome it with emotion and a clear knowledge of tactics and game strategy. I just don't find Silva the least bit motivating with his monotone voice and passionless disposition.

Our last British manager was Allardyce and I would rather eat glass than have him back. Moyes, despite what some have indicated, did motivate the players and we played far better than any time since. He also didn't have the money to spend like our last three stooges.

He actually ruined himself by going to Manchester United. Since then he has lost any reputation he had and probably doesn't have the confidence to manage a football team. I certainly wouldn't want him to return to us.

The present situation at Everton is so complex and nobody seems to have a clue as to what we should do next. Most of us probably post merely to vent as a method of self therapy. However, I would be very happy to see us play well so that such therapy would not be needed.

Having supported my beloved Blues for over 70 years I think I need a break from football. But then I have my wife who couldn't care less about Everton say to me, "Is that all you ever think about... Stupid Football?

Michael Kenrick
124 Posted 04/02/2019 at 17:03:29
For fear of poking the bear, I think Jay (#71) you are reacting a little off-base with regard to what is a very reasonable observation about Silva, the (non-)communicator. And it is absolutely down to limited skills with the English language. That's not a "low blow" as you call it — just a fact, unfortunately.

There are nuances of emphasis, structures of verbal complexity in trying to get your ideas across, ability to illustrate in the vernacular, and a huge barrier in terms of doing this when there is the slightest feeling of resentment or lack of appreciation on the part of the recipients.

Despite your claim, I am quite sure this is a factor — only magnified when we are not playing well and the team are, according the manager, not implementing his instructions correctly. And it may be far worse with his foreign coaches, who we have no knowledge of.

Eddie Dunn
125 Posted 04/02/2019 at 17:34:37
I mentioned similar points myself, Michael – the communication is key and unlike Big Sam who arrived with Shakespeare and Sammy the Seal, we know nothing of Silva's crew.

We know little enough at the best of times but now we are really in the dark. Are there any Portuguese Blues out there who could enlighten us?

Ian Lloyd
126 Posted 04/02/2019 at 17:35:42
Anyone just watched Sky Sports with Tosun talking about scoring goals?!?!?

Then Sky put up a touch stats from Tosun on Saturday and he didn't touch the ball once in the Wolves penalty box for the entire game!

That must be a world record!

Embarrassing! Just like the entire club!

Paul Birmingham
127 Posted 04/02/2019 at 17:36:19
Performance = Motivation x Ability. These factors against the current squad would raise serious doubts and it doesn't need Einstein, to work out there's less than a handful who try their best. Compared to other clubs, even beneath us, there's a massive and noticeable lack of everything.

It's down to the first team manager and coaches to take a look at themselves. This raises huge questions about the chemistry of this squad. Clearly and backed factually by performances and results, they are taking the piss out of the Everton motto.

There's a rot set in, and in my view massive issues down the line for the aspirations of Everton Football Club.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

128 Posted 04/02/2019 at 17:44:03
Michael @124.

It's a multi-lingual game these days. Ideally, the 'lingua-franca' at an English-based Premier League club should, of course, be English. I have heard Silva say he wants the likes of Richarlison, Bernard and Mina to learn English.

Pep Guardiola is a manager who insists all new players quickly get up to speed with English at Man City. I don't know how strictly the 'Learn English' mantra is applied at Everton.

Whatever. With the finances available, plus the technology and interpreters also available, there are ways and means around 'language barriers' at Premier League football clubs.

Your words (and the posts of others) portray Silva as a grunting incomprehensible Neanderthal when he speaks English. He isn't. That is the only point I called out in my earlier post.

Whether he is an effective communicator in getting his ideas across in his mother tongue or a second language, we are not privy to. That's another discussion altogether, far removed from the single point I made in the post you challenge.

Darren Hind
129 Posted 04/02/2019 at 17:47:58
If we beat Man City, his troubles are over... for a few weeks.
David Connor
130 Posted 04/02/2019 at 17:53:28
Silva needs to have some English lessons to get his points across. His grasp of the English langrage is shocking. That maybe part of the problem.

Or maybe it's just that the players are shit... Probably because they are shit.

Eddie Dunn
131 Posted 04/02/2019 at 18:02:10
Darren... If.
Brian Wilkinson
132 Posted 04/02/2019 at 18:11:39
Chris @3, that is the same team I would pick as well, Jagielka to do as it says on the tin, simple basic defending, throwing yourself towards the ball instead of stood with your arms behind your back.

McCarthy in from the start instead of the bench.

Same every week, go a goal down, then attacking subs made with no chance of McCarthy coming on. Get the guy on from the start, at least then we will have someone who will get stuck in.

Rob Marsh
133 Posted 04/02/2019 at 18:13:24
I agree with many of the sentiments on here, zonal marking, sometimes his tactics; he's also I believe played favourites with his team.

Baines didn't do to badly at all against Huddersfield, he had plenty of energy and was looking to exploit them, Silva should have been interchanging these two to keep Digne honest and give Baines a chance to use his experience. With an injury, he should never have been played against Wolves. There's other positions this could have happened to also.

Now, onto motivation, I actually feel some pity for Silva on this point. These colossally overpaid pampered prima donnas will compared to previous generations throw in the towel much earlier.

I don't think the colour of the Jersey makes any difference anymore, they know their agent will spread roumors of dissatisfaction and find them a new club. They simply fight up to a point that is way below what would've been the norm in the past and order their agent to find a new club.

I'll give Silva a pass on this one.

He does though now have to start getting his personnel right, stop using zonal marking and try different tactics, this might just get the players moving again?

Tom Bowers
135 Posted 04/02/2019 at 18:24:26
Well, one thing's for sure, he has a mass of problems to iron out before next season if he's still around.

Just seems to most of us that, compared to the Martinez tenure and even last season, that things are so much worse despite some big additions which have not managed to gel into a competitive outfit.

On current form, it's highly unlikely there will be any pickins' from the Man City game or the Liverpool game and a lot of the other games are going to be real struggles.

Rob Marsh
136 Posted 04/02/2019 at 18:29:41
Tom #135

If I offered you 0-2 for the City game and 0-0/0-1 for the derby, would you take them now?

This is where my confidence levels are at the moment.

Brian Wilkinson
137 Posted 04/02/2019 at 18:32:09
So players are not motivated? Is it no wonder if they know they are still going to be picked, regardless of the previous result, same formation, same tactics?

Even if they are dropped, do you think they care, still picking up Their huge wages every week.

People say the old days were the best when they played with passion and for the club. Those days your wages were dependent on appearance, win bonus, and the size of attendance to top up your bonus.

Players have got it easy these days, a guaranteed salary whether you play or not, a big signing on fee for signing for a new club, big fat wage, even if you do not make it on the bench.

Pure greed is killing our game, gone are the days when players busted a gut for our football club. Whoever comes in, should Silva depart, will get the same effort after a few games, from a large part of the players we have.

Until a lot of this squad is gone, expect the same from whoever takes the realms in the future.

We have a manager who will not scrap the Zonal marking, will not make changes to the team, and a team who do not give a toss about Everton Football Club, the fans or results with the exception of a few of the squad.

They, between them, have ripped the heart out of our football club, they owe the supporters big time. Whether we get that for the remainder of the season, depends if the players read ToffeeWeb, and care enough to give us Evertonians what we deserve, or at least expect: passion, effort and 100%, that is all we ask.

Surely the players and the manager owe us at least that.

Paul Jeronovich
138 Posted 04/02/2019 at 18:35:11
Get Moyes back in to turn this shit show around. We need basic organisation with a bit of flair and the ability to grind out a result. <:P>I've never left so many matches as early as I have under Silva, once we go behind there is no fight or comeback. I'm sick of it.
Paul Burns
139 Posted 04/02/2019 at 18:36:21
There is something seriously wrong and poisonous with every single aspect of the way the club is run and managed and it's up to us fans to force a change because both local and national media are not the slightest bit interested in even reporting on us fairly.

How do we begin to put a stop to the basket case that Everton has become (within the law)?

Rob Marsh
140 Posted 04/02/2019 at 18:43:15
Paul Jeronovich #138

We'll will stay up (fingers/toes crossed) and there's no urgency on that score. David Moyes has done nothing since leaving to suggest he's learnt anything new or improved.

I'm surprised how many have called for him, I doubt he'll even be considered in the clubs due diligence (providing Kenwright doesn't do it).

Ross Edwards
141 Posted 04/02/2019 at 18:47:03
The players are a disgrace. As much as it is Silva's job to get something out of them their lack of effort or passion is shocking. They downed tools for Martinez, Koeman and now it seems they can't be arsed with Silva.

I wasn't Moyes's biggest fan but at least in those days we had players that would actually put a shift in and try. These days they roll over at the first sign of difficulty. They'd better had show up in the next 5 home games to up otherwise they will all be humiliations.

A club full of timid losers and no leaders. So depressing.

Richard Mason
142 Posted 04/02/2019 at 18:49:57
Drop players who are not motivated, give the likes of McCarthy a run, and other players who are not getting a chance, that's the whole idea of having competition for places in the team.

In my opinion, a player should be motivated to step out on to that pitch every week, regardless of what the manager says.

Clive Rogers
143 Posted 04/02/2019 at 18:52:21
Kenwright left the club a complete and utter mess. Moshiri has said so himself, saying the finances were a shambles and the club itself more of a museum.

It is ridiculous that that clown is still our chairman after 20 years of decline. He is now just a figurehead, but that is not what EFC needs. Rather an energetic forward-thinking young motivator who will set an example.

Kenwright is now a symbol of our decline, a hanger-on and an icon of everything that has gone wrong in 25 years.

Jimmy Hogan
144 Posted 04/02/2019 at 19:05:28
Moyes is finished as a top flight manager. Any reference to him can only be historical. Yet... I wish we had his defensive discipline, his ability to spot a lower league player who would improve us, the team spirit he engendered.

It's beginning to look like a golden era. Thank God I'm old enough to remember the real golden eras.

Rob Marsh
145 Posted 04/02/2019 at 19:10:22
Jimmy Hogan #144

Totally agree with all you've said there.

It's just sad he tainted things with the way he left us.

Anthony Murphy
146 Posted 04/02/2019 at 19:21:51
Some great posts here...

The modern footballer does not take well to public criticism via the manager. Okay, Sarri got a reaction at the weekend but that was against a very poor Huddersfield.

Silva must be really naive to take this stance with a game against the current Premier League Champions in 2 days. A massacre at Goodison Park on Wednesday is not at all impossible. What then?

Dermot Byrne
147 Posted 04/02/2019 at 19:23:19
Playing away from Goodison for a few now. Probably a blessing for everyone apart from our fantastic away fans. And whilst I think about it, probably them too as at least they can be one block rather than dotted around amongst the chill of Goodison.
John McFarlane Snr
148 Posted 04/02/2019 at 19:26:45
Hi Dave [62] I have read every post on this thread, and I think that your approach would make the most sense.

We as supporters can make as much of a fuss as we like and not change anything, the only people who can bring about the necessary changes are the manager and the players.

If the tactics are not suited to the players, then the thing to do is to change the tactics; now that the transfer window is closed, there is no alternative. If things are as bad in the dressing room as some are suggesting, then the problem needs to be addressed immediately.

Dave Williams
149 Posted 04/02/2019 at 19:27:57
I've not had time yet to read the rest of the thread, after tea!

This was unbelievable to hear a manager say that about his players and calls into question the research done into players before buying them, the coaching they receive every day and the managers inability to motivate them.

After this he will surely be gone if we don't show some effort against Man City, get hammered and then lose at Watford. The team on Wednesday has to be made up of players who will fight and be tight on the pitch and not give them loads of space:

Pickford
Kenny Jagielka Zouma Digne
Davies Gana Gomes McCarthy Bernard
Richarlison or Calvert-Lewin

If Jagielka is fit, he will organise them. Jonjoe plays well with Tom beside him. Man City won't kick us so see how fit James is. Bernard is feisty and will work hard.

If Silva can't get them up for this after what he has said then god help him and us as it will be a very painful evening.

Steve Ferns
150 Posted 04/02/2019 at 19:29:48
Dave, Sarri did it too. His side then won 5-0. Silva is challenging the players by calling them out. He’s mentioned no names, and it’ll be interesting to see if there’s any big changes as a result.
John Keating
151 Posted 04/02/2019 at 19:32:35
The only way of getting rid of The Worlds Greatest Evertonian is to charge everyone, directors, ex-players and all other hangers-on to see the game.

Let him buy a season ticket or go through StubHub... I doubt we'd never see him again.

Dave Williams
152 Posted 04/02/2019 at 19:34:56
Hi Steve, agreed. It's possibly the only thing he can think of and it will be fascinating to see if it has any effect.

If it doesn't, has he anywhere else to go?

Neil Copeland
153 Posted 04/02/2019 at 19:46:23
This could be a pivotal moment for Silva and may go either way. Although I have lost confidence in him and would welcome Benitez, I still want him to succeed and surprise us all.

As others have already pointed out, he has been careful not to mention any names and this may just be a touch of genius from him. There again, if it is the tactics that are de-motivating the players, then this may be disastrous.

Either way, we will at least get some idea on Wednesday. Speaking of Wednesday, I have no idea why but I think we will get something from the game. Yes, I know I am completely off my head for saying it but the feeling is what it is.

Jerome Shields
154 Posted 04/02/2019 at 19:54:09
Dave #62.

I agree, in the short-term, your suggestion is the best way forward. Getting clear of relegation is the priority. But Moshiri will need to initiate changes, both on and off the pitch if Everton are to get on track.

It also looks that during the Summer he is going to have to provide funds. A self-funding transfer policy may not be an alternative with the surplus players Everton have. Regulations permitting that funds can be provided.

What Moshiri, advised by Brands, does or can do on the team management is anybody's guess. It may be that Silva had come out with the above statement knowing Brands has a similar opinion.

Joe McMahon
155 Posted 04/02/2019 at 19:58:27
Steve, Chelsea were at home to Huddersfield, a bit of a difference. Chelsea still have some very good players; Everton have maybe two at best.
Sean Kelly
156 Posted 04/02/2019 at 20:02:50
That's your job, you twat.
Mike Allen
157 Posted 04/02/2019 at 20:06:30
This will have to be the last straw if he is now turning on his players. We the fans can see most of the players are not motivated. He has a vast backroom of hangers-on to cover every aspect of the game, even motivation.

Yet the manager stands there, looking glum or maybe thoughtful, but at no time does he look to be motivating or geeing up his players; he looks out of his depth.

How embarrassing to see the ground empty out way before the final whistle. I just hope they can get motivated to turn up for the next game.

Steve Ferns
159 Posted 04/02/2019 at 20:29:07
Dave, the biggest problem is he keeps setting us like Sporting and Olympiacos. In other words like the better side expected to win. Why oh why doesn't he do himself a favour and think of us as the underdogs and set us up like he did Estoril?

Estoril won many games 1-0. He proved he could defend. No need to learn new tricks, just go back to his early playbooks and try that.

I think he could also have success simply by dropping the No 10 and dropping in a Number 6 behind where Davies and Gomes were, that would push our high line deeper.

We'd have one more man behind the ball in attack and we'd be a little less effective but we'd be more solid (particularly shape) on losing the ball.

What concerns me most is the team always plays very different after half time and at the start. Then Silva's instructions are forgotten and they do what they want.

ToffeeWeb hasn't reported all of what Silva said. He talked a lot about pressure. The pressure has gotten to the players. Everton is too big a club for some of them. I don't agree that we're too big for some, but clearly there's a lot feeling the pressure. Silva must be one of them too.

Dave Williams
160 Posted 04/02/2019 at 20:48:00
Steve,

I am also advocating scrapping the number 10. We struggled all last season trying Rooney and Sigurdsson and we didn't find any fluency and Siggy has been anonymous in most of our recent games – yes, he is a goal threat but we end up playing effectively with ten men and that goes down to nine if Walcott plays (he is surely one of the unmotivated players).

We need more energy and effort, so play Tom and Gana with Gomes in the middle and I would include McCarthy if he is fit enough to play.

As you say, get back to basics and a start is eleven players who will put in maximum effort and not give Man City time on the ball. The team would still have some creativity and we might actually see some if the players are tight and vibrant.

Keith Monaghan
161 Posted 04/02/2019 at 20:48:01
Our club has been full of a soft mentality easily accepting failure for years, making it a push-over for those wanting a lucrative easy ride.

It started with the way BK let Moyes mess us around for the last several months of his tenure, kidding us he'd stay when his mentor at Old Trafford was telling him not to sign the contract on offer.

We then appointed a proven Premier League failure on the basis of his team making a mockery of us in the FA Cup at Goodison - he gave us 1 good season, but signed a couple of decent players (Barry & Lukaku) along with mediocrity like McCarthy ( his 1st season was good) & 2 other ex-Wigan failures. He failed to see baines & Jags needed to be phased out by the end of his first season, and persisted in over-rating the (now) Chelsea bench-warmer Barkley, who Kenwright also allowed to shaft us.

Then add to this selling Lukaku cheaply to his masters at OldT in order to re-sign a foul-mouthed, washed up & unfit Rooney, on stupidly high wages. That move alone (never wanted by RK no matter what he had to say publicly) made us a laughing stock and ensured RK would fail - a wasted season.

Meanwhile we continue to have ineffective hangers on in the football staff, notably Dunc, and more recently added to by recruiting Jeffers - how great is our youth set up, no wonder we fail to develop decent young players.

Moshiri needs to get rid of BK as a matter of urgency & allow Brands to sort out the backroom set up.

Sacking Silva, as many on here are calling for, will solve nothing - it will only encourage lazy, uncommitted players to flourish. We may need to replace Silva, but lets not kid ourselves, he inherited a right mess which won't be sorted out quickly in terms of getting to where we want to be.


Rob Marsh
162 Posted 04/02/2019 at 20:48:52
Watching WHU v RS

When facing corners and in swinging free kicks they're as bad as we are at handling them.

How are they top of the league?

Neil Wood
163 Posted 04/02/2019 at 20:51:24
People talk about the manager being a fraud but despite any of that these guys get paid tens of thousands of pounds a week to play a game they love playing.

I spent today dealing with a fatal road traffic collision, two burglaries and a shoplifter who chose to spit at me whilst using pretty much every expletive known to mankind towards me.
Now I’m not looking for sob stories at all but I get paid a year what some of these guys earn between Monday morning and Wednesday evening... so let’s say three or four training sessions max.

To then have the nerve not to give anything but 100% is sickening to me as a fan and a human being and they should hang there head in shame.

People are in awe of players like Richarlison who a few weeks ago gave his shirt to a fan... fuck off. It’s a £50 shirt that the club buys for fuck all and he gets for nowt so don’t say it’s a lovely gesture it should be done every week without fail by every player.

I know I’m on my high horse a bit it’s been a tough old day but it just frustrates the bones of me seeing the tippy tappy bullshit churned out.

Watch 75% of our passes. Just watch. Just an observation but they always seem to be behind the man, never for people to progress with the ball always stalling or going slightly backwards. I have noticed it massively this last few months and watched other teams.

I’d play some of the real youngsters who have the desire to prove themselves. People like Adiniran who’s playing out of his skin in the youth ranks and the lad whose scoring shitloads. Give them
A run out and show the other mercenaries the U23’s

John Roberts
164 Posted 04/02/2019 at 20:51:34
Not replacing Lukaku has been our problem! Takes the pressure of the rest of the team!
Tony Everan
165 Posted 04/02/2019 at 20:52:17
Watching/supporting West Ham, they are set up well by Pellegrini and are fired up and fully motivated.

We need some of that, Silva should have a look at Pellegrini's midfield set up there.

Shame about the Ref and Linesmen in the game, they are a disgrace. VAR cant come soon enough.

Brent Stephens
166 Posted 04/02/2019 at 20:57:17
Shocking goal allowed for rs - offside country mile. Very impressed with WHU. Controlled football, movement, aggression. Deserved and well-worked equaliser.
Jason Wilkinson
167 Posted 04/02/2019 at 21:00:34
I'm trying to work out where Dumbasfuck F.C. are. The only way we will get rid of "The dead wood" as it were is to find a club as dumb as we are to sign these slackers in the first place.

Would Huddersfield, Fulham or Cardiff want Marco if he went to manage them for nothing? No I don't think they would swap either.

Rob Marsh
168 Posted 04/02/2019 at 21:02:09
Tony #165

Even with VAR if there's any luck going they'll get.

Just imagine a derby we're winning (I can only dream!) they score one but the ref not sure sends it VAR. Guess who the VAR official is? Mark (I love LFC) Clattenburg!

You know which way the decision goes.

Neil Copeland
169 Posted 04/02/2019 at 21:02:17
Neil #163, I hope you have s better day tomorrow.

I’ve noticed the number of passes made that are behind the man. It kills any momentum immediately and generally leads to us moving the call backwards or sideways at very best. The times we do pass into the players run often leads to a good move or chance. I was always taught to pass it ahead of the man, to me it is a very basic requirement. Sort it and we will improve when trying to move the ball forwards.

Keith Monaghan
170 Posted 04/02/2019 at 21:07:05
Neil @ 163.
You make some great points.

Spot on re the quality of passing - Baines and Coleman, as good as they were for us, have been a problem for 2-3 seasons, so often moving forward slowly, then checking inside & passing the ball backwards That & slow build-up play.

Then forward passes to players with a man with his back to the opposition goal and at least one opponent breathing down his neck - a big factor e.g. in the 3rd Wolves goal.
In this league, unless you've got top-notch players, tall full-backs are essential - how often in recent seasons have the opposition exploited this with their crossing to the back-post area? See Wolves' 2nd goal.

Zonal marking

Neil Wood
171 Posted 04/02/2019 at 21:07:19
Neil thanks pal!

It’s just something I notice with us all the time and it’s simple percentage things like this that can as you say just stop that flow and negate any momentum in an instant.

It’s not a difficult thing surely to god !

In such a fast paced league that vital time lost is imperative.

Brent Stephens
172 Posted 04/02/2019 at 21:16:54
Great game at WHU. Pelligrini has them playing well.
Anthony A Hughes
173 Posted 04/02/2019 at 21:19:31
It sad to see where we are when some of the comments on this thread involve lusting after Moyes to counting how many points we need to avoid relegation. What a fuck up of a season
Conor Skelly
174 Posted 04/02/2019 at 21:29:44
Far too many people prefixing all the reasons that Moyes is the stand-out candidate with "I never want Moyes back, but".

If he's the right man for the job then what exactly is the objection.

The Moyes hate-mob bemuse me. He was brilliant. So good he got the biggest job in football. Another thing about Moyes is when he spoke we listened. As for our current boss, well I didn't even read the OP, I know what he's going to say.

Rob Marsh
175 Posted 04/02/2019 at 21:40:57
Conor Skelly #174

What's Moyes achieved since he left us?

Andy Crooks
176 Posted 04/02/2019 at 21:44:18
Steve F, they aren't playing for him. He can try any system in the world but this sorry bunch seem, in my view, to think has not got it. He will be sacked, finished as a serious coach and you know what, I think it could have been so different. He was so close, so very close to what you, and I agreed with you, thought he could do. His boat has sailed. He is done and it is a fucking shame that the frauds who pull on the shirt and the charity cases appointed by Kenwright will be here after he has gone.
There is a stink about Everton, something is wrong and rotten.
Steve Ferns
177 Posted 04/02/2019 at 21:46:14
We’ll see Andy. I don’t believe Everton will sack him. If they do, it’s only going to be cocu. So if cocu gets another job he ain’t going anywhere.
Roger Helm
178 Posted 04/02/2019 at 21:46:41
For me it all starts with defence - if you keep clean sheets, the whole team is more confident. As it is, shipping 2-3 goals regularly means you are always playing catch-up. Even when you take a lead, there is no confidence you will win. That is what the glory days (compared to recent years) of Moyes was founded on.

Unfortunately, Silva seems to know little about defending. Rather than sacking him, the club should restrict him to the warm and fuzzy man-management stuff and hire a proper hard bastard ex-centre half coach to get some organisation and steel into our defenders. Other sports like rugby and American football have defensive coaches so why can't we?

Mike Jones
179 Posted 04/02/2019 at 21:57:44
Is it wrong of me to want Man City to hammer (no pun intended ) is on Wednesday
Danny Baily
180 Posted 04/02/2019 at 22:00:12
Roger 178, good idea. I'd suggest going further and effectively sideline him until he either gets good or clears off, most likely the latter.
Mike Jones
181 Posted 04/02/2019 at 22:03:30
*us
Anthony Murphy
182 Posted 04/02/2019 at 22:08:43
Conor, the Moyes debate fascinates me. I don’t want the guy back for a number of reasons, but what we will probably never know is whether he would have taken that elusive next step with money to spend. It’s typical Everton that after years of scratching about without a pot to piss in, we totally screw up when we finally get a few quid. Remember the window when we bought in Drenthe and the Straq?

Even after such a terrible run, I am of the opinion that we need to allow Silva to the end of the season at least. Let’s see what happens eh? If we fail to improve between now and then, I’m sure Brands will step in as his reputation is on the line too. I was so impressed with Silva in the week leading up to the Derby. In his press conferences, he refused to use their name and spoke with drive and confidence. He had us playing our best football that day in a derby for many years, so there is a small glimmer of hope still for me, but he’s slowly running out of excuses and time.

Tony Abrahams
183 Posted 04/02/2019 at 22:09:01
One blatant offside goal, nearly another with the last kick of the game, but still that lovely German bastard moans like fuck.

Give them what they want, or you won’t hear the last of it, so either way we aren’t going to hear the last of it, let’s just hope it’s going to be outrage.

Trevor Peers
184 Posted 04/02/2019 at 22:10:08
Let's not speculate too much who the next manager might be, we haven't dumped this one yet.

As for cocu the clown, I doubt it, he would do what Silva would do next season, relegate us. No more no-hopers or we're doomed.

Tom Bowers
185 Posted 04/02/2019 at 22:10:44
It never fails does it ????? More disgraceful officiating benefitting RS.
Linesman should be sacked for missing that one.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

186 Posted 04/02/2019 at 22:12:51
Mike Jones @ 179.

In answer to your question, 'Yis!'

I mean, 'Yus!'

Sorry, I mean 'Yes!'

It's hard enough getting a win any time without wishing a defeat - a heavy one at that - on us.

Conor Skelly
187 Posted 04/02/2019 at 22:15:18
Rob-125

I think he did well at West-ham and as another poster mentioned, brought players like Lanzini and Arnautavic out of their shell.

Other jobs he's had have been tough. He wasn't advanced enough for the quality expected at United. He failed to adapt and it didn't work out. He also inherited a dressing room full of aging serial winners who worshipped the man he replaced. It was a tough gig.

Sunderland as anyone who saw the recent documentary can attest to was a nightmare job.

Sociedad was always going to be a big ask but he kept them up and did ok with them for someone without the language.

What I know first hand (as a fan) is what he did at Everton. It was an incredible body of work that some fans dismiss for what seems like petty reasons but that usually have something to do with a knife, a gunfight and a bid for Baines.

Mike Jones
188 Posted 04/02/2019 at 22:17:17
Can’t agree with you Jay. Despite the pisstake.
Neil Copeland
189 Posted 04/02/2019 at 22:20:16
Mike, easiest 3 points we will get all season!
Steve Ferns
190 Posted 04/02/2019 at 22:24:10
Anthony, we do know. He went to Man Utd and failed to deal with the big stars. He also failed to handle the big star personalities at Everton. For example Ferguson (already an Everton "Legend"), van Der Meyde (Inter Milan), Drenthe (Real Madrid), and so on. Moyes could handle the players he made, like Pienaar, Cahill and so on.

Drenthe was talking about him recently, it sounds full of regret, but in reality it tells you Moyes was not cut out for the top jobs. He got us to where he could get clubs. All the money in the world wasn't enough for him, he couldn't manage Neymar, Cristiano (Ronaldo) Aveiro, or Paul Pogba.

But the argument is academic. In the same way Mourinho is not the Mourinho of old, so is Moyes not the Moyes of old. I watched a load of his press conferences at Sunderland in bemusement. I kept thinking, shut your mouth Moyes, why are you saying that? He was not acting like the Moyes I knew. He's done I'm afraid, that's why he's still out of work.

As for the future, look at the work of Paul the Esk, and the others at EBM, and consider that the stadium is coming, and that means austerity. If Silva is given his marching orders, then Brands will choose the successor, and if it's not his old mate Phillip Cocu, then it will be someone similar to what Silva was meant to be. We'll be looking for a young, hungry coach, ready for a long term project and willing to work within a budget and to develop young players, both from the academy, and those identified by the scouting team. The days of going from Moyes to Martinez to Koeman to Allardyce to Silva, i.e. from one extreme to the other are over. Brands will want a manager who fits the players he's assembled for the side. And I still think that's a good thing, for the long term stability of the club, and it should see us make steady progress back up the table.

Rob Marsh
191 Posted 04/02/2019 at 22:42:01
Conor #187

Yes he did ok at WHU, gave them a bit of shape and got them playing, I'll concede that, but they still wanted rid of him.

It's the overall that bothers me and I think he's looking a bit tired, like he needs the rest.

It's defintely not a hatred of Moyes I feel, if he had won something or got any of those teams in the top half of the table (not including Manu), I'd be giving him serious consideration again.

I also think his tacticts are a bit dated now, things have moved on, the mainly defensive game he plays would see us mid table, a manager now to do well in this league has to be able to play different formations from week to week. Is he that agile?

I just can't see any success with him, stability maybe, is that what we're after now?

Oliver Molloy
192 Posted 04/02/2019 at 22:43:11
Anyone hear what I heard today from a somebody.

Silva apparently lost the plot big time after the game on Saturday , calling out players saying he was fucked off protecting them from the "truth" and from now it will be different, presumably meaning he will now give his side of the story.

Brian Williams
193 Posted 04/02/2019 at 22:45:18
From a somebody???
Steve Ferns
194 Posted 04/02/2019 at 22:45:48
Rob, have you seen the motley crew at the Super Bowl on the BBC website? Vernon Kay, Sir David Brailsford (team sky cycling), Gareth Southgate, and then David Moyes and Roberto Martinez. Odd selection of people together for that event. He’s not looking tired there, but he certainly was at West Ham and Sunderland.
Brian Williams
195 Posted 04/02/2019 at 22:45:50
From a somebody???
Tom Bowers
196 Posted 04/02/2019 at 22:49:05
I suppose whatever happens we have to blame the RS.

Things weren't too bad until that 96th. minute of the RS game and since then it's been unbelievably poor apart from maybe the Burnley game when Burnley were having a really bad run.

Still, I would want Everton to beat City even if it helps RS unfortunately.

RS may just be starting an indifferent run and have injury problems so City could capitalize.

Oliver Molloy
197 Posted 04/02/2019 at 22:49:13
Yes Brian, from a somebody.
Jay Harris
198 Posted 04/02/2019 at 22:53:53
For those who say Moyes failed at United he still had a better record over the number of games he managed than Mourhino or Van Gaal despite Giggs and co undermining him at every step.

I can agree he blew it in the manner of his departure from us and subsequent actions but lets not forget what he did for the club while he was here.

Oliver Molloy
199 Posted 04/02/2019 at 22:59:19
Some people speaking about Weds game and hoping we lie down.

I'm sure that if Everton play well against City and "are up for it" then Goodison will get behind the team big time - Why ?, because I reckon that there is still a majority of fans wanting Silva to prove he is the man, and of course pure loyalty to the club will take over IF the players put in a performance.

Be prepared for us all to be shocked !!

Jay Harris
200 Posted 04/02/2019 at 23:01:35
Oliver, thats very concerning.

Now we have the manager off on one track, the players individually off on their own, Kenwright working his Machiavellian plot with his acolytes, DBB ensuring Eitc is running OK and Brands banging his head on the wall saying WTF have I agreed to.

Meanwhile Mosh is sitting tight on his wallet because he has heard about the back of Bill's sofa.

Pat Finegan
201 Posted 04/02/2019 at 23:02:06
James Hughes (114) It all depends on the collective bargaining agreement of the given league. The NBA, for example, is a lot more player friendly than the NFL. I'm going to attempt to answer for the 4 major American sports, namely basketball, [NFL] football, Baseball, and hockey 1) Do the contract rules in American sports allow for excessive player power? 2) Are players in those leagues often lazy? I'll reference individual players, so you can Google them if you're interested, instead of being overly detailed. That should keep this comment to a reasonable length.

In the NBA, as an example, Anthony Davis, of the New Orleans Pelicans, can request a trade, sit out, and pretty much get his way because of the way the salary rules are written and the middling position in the standings in which the Pelicans find themselves. If they lose Davis, they, in theory, get a higher draft pick to replace him. If they keep him, they're not going to win a championship because they don't have the players to do it. Realistically, if he doesn't want to stick around, there's no point keeping him. It's player power for sure, but the team gets a reasonably fair deal. As far as laziness in basketball, it's there, but it's mostly on defense. Less defense = more entertainment = spectators look the other way when there's a lack of effort. It's also hard to judge effort. A 5'10" athlete busting a gut looks way different from a 7'2" athlete busting a gut. The shear size of NBA players can make them look lazy when they're really trying their hardest.

In the NFL, Le'Veon Bell of the Pittsburgh Steelers requested a trade, sat out the entire year and lost his wages. Bell's case is really interesting. It looks, at first like a player being petulant and trying to get more money, but it actually underscores the difference between NFL and other sports, like football [British use of the word.] Bell was in the last year of his contract. (It is a bit more complicated than that. I'm simplifying for the purpose of discussion. Google his name if you're interested.) Bell is one of the top 2 players at his position and only 26 years old, so he is in line for a lucrative, long term contract. If he played in the last year of his contract and got a severe injury, he could have lost millions of dollars as no one wants to pay a large amount of money over 5 or 6 years to a guy coming off an injury. Severe injuries are fairly common in the NFL, so he was arguably better off sitting out an entire year, since his team didn't want to give him an extension. (Another name to Google if you're interested is Earl Thomas.) So the NFL has a problem with the way it does player contracts, but it's not really similar to English football, because injuries aren't as big a concern in English football. As far as laziness, the game doesn't allow for it. If you're lazy at NFL football, that's the exact same thing as being bad at it. You're not going to make it far in that game if you're unwilling to work and/or afraid of getting hurt.

In baseball, because of the way player development works in the sport, there are very few, if any, situations where a player wants to leave and the team is better off keeping him, even if he is a superstar. If a player wants to leave, it's usually because his team is bad (ex: Manny Machado.) As a general principle, cash turns into prospects (young, developing players in the lower (minor) leagues) and prospects turn into good players. When a team is bad, they can trade their good players for prospects and/or cash. Good teams will generally pay a fair price for the good player. I'm sure there is laziness in baseball, but the game has more to do with the effort you put in off the field than the effort you put in on it. You don't make contact with a 98 mph fastball by trying hard, you make contact with a 98 mph fastball by hitting off pitching machines in practice. You don't get to throw a 98 mph fastball by trying hard, you do so by doing the right excercises and drills in practice. Baseball skills aren't natural, they're earned through hard work. Lazy people can't develop their skills.

Hockey is just an insane sport. I love it, but it's crazy. You have to have a screw loose to be willing to play a sport where you dive on the ice to block a 100+ mph shot with your lightly padded body, get should checked into the boards on a regular basis, and get into literal fist fights on a regular basis (the standard penalty for getting in to a fist fight is that you have to sit out for 5 minutes.) If you're the type of person who chooses that sport as a kid, you're probably not the type of person to go missing when your team needs you. You're also probably not they type of person who's overly concerned about the amount of money you make. If you play hockey, you do it because you really love it, not for a paycheck.

The conclusion we can come to, if you've managed to read this whole comment, is that American sports, while they're not necessarily better overall, have a better way of naturally weeding the lazy, disinterested people out early on. From what I understand, the collective bargaining agreements that govern the leagues might not even be allowed under EU/UK law as they contain salary caps, but they allow for more of a balance between player power and club/league power.

I don't mean to derail the discussion too much, but if anyone has any additional input or questions about how collective bargaining and player development works in American sports, it could be an interesting discussion.

Brian Williams
202 Posted 04/02/2019 at 23:05:08
Oliver, what does that mean, "a somebody"?
Somebody at the club or what?
Drew O'Neall
203 Posted 04/02/2019 at 23:05:13
Steve 190

I like a lot of what you write because it’s obvious you put the time and effort in to creating your posts but I must challenge a couple of points here.

Moyes did not ‘make’ Stephen Pienaar. You know your football so I won’t bother to ram my point home with the supporting evidence.

Van Der Meyde was a drunk. He only came to Everton because we would have him.

Royston Drenthe was unmanageable by his manager’s prior to, and post, David Moyes.

As for all the money in the world not being enough for him, we were a Romelu Lukaku away from a champions league position finish in his final season (and others).

I also don’t think Mourinho isn’t ‘the Mourinho of old’. I think both Moyes and Mourinho are yesterday’s men. They could both relate to players from a certain generation but those personalities are now all but completely eradicated from the game.

I’ll be extreme to make the point, when you look for leaders in our team, these days you are turning to the likes of Coleman, Baines and people on here are even hoping Jagielka is fit for the weekend.

In Jagielka’s prime he wouldn’t be considered a player with outstanding leadership qualities of the likes of Ratcliffe or Dave Watson or Peter Reid but the likes of Jagielka and Cahill at Everton, and Terry and Lampard at Chelsea, remembered and experienced these real men of football and considered them examples.

These were the men to whom managers like Mourinho and Moyes could relate and hold up as standard bearers for their players to be measured against but players who would be measured against those standards no longer exist in the game.

The world has moved on. I concede your point about Moyes is valid but he hasn’t changed, nor has Mourinho and that’s their problem.

Chris Corn
204 Posted 04/02/2019 at 23:07:20
I never wanted Silva based on his record but I don't want another manager sacked. It is becoming a bad joke. A vicious circle. We are spending £750k a week on wages on players out the squad or on loan already. Sack him and we end up with a load more players a new man may not want.

People thinking we can tempt a world class coach without any incentive of European football are as deluded as those who think we can pluck a prolific striker out of thin air.

Ultimately we are in mid table with a bunch of teams who make up the numbers in the PL. All have had good and bad spells. West Ham have taken a good point tonight but their form across the season has been pretty similar to ours as their points reflect.

In my opinion, he needs to be given time.

John Keating
205 Posted 04/02/2019 at 23:09:18
Steve 190
Good post Steve and agree regarding a manager to fit the players

I appreciate Silva doesn’t have all his own players but any idea why he is failing so dramatically
I don’t think anyone suspected he was so stubborn and tactically niave

We all had hopes and at his appointment I believe everyone wanted him to succeed but he seems to done himself irreparable damage

Jamie Crowley
206 Posted 04/02/2019 at 23:17:56
Pat @ 201 -

That's an excellent synopsis of the 4 major sports and how salaries work.

And yes, you have to have a screw loose to play hockey. Further going off the rails, but I think many would find it interesting as it's not a "thing" obviously in the UK / Ireland:

It should be noted that hockey players are by far and away, the most down-to-earth players of all the major sports as well. Usually good dudes who just don't know anything but 100% effort and putting their bodies on the line.

If any Brit, Irishman, Scot, Aussie, whatever, were to watch a hockey game - especially in person - during the playoffs when it's win a 7 game series or go home, you'd be shell-shocked at the level of skill, and more importantly the raw desire to win.

It's absolutely insane. I've never heard a hockey fan question effort in the playoffs. A lack of effort doesn't exist. Your own players would beat the shit out of you if you coasted for even 10 seconds.

It is, in my opinion, the hardest championship to win in all - ALL - of sport. It takes gladiators to do it. You have to win 16 games in total in the playoffs to lift Lord Stanley's Cup. And you literally get the living tar beat out of you in the process.

I can not suggest watching playoff hockey enough. It's wonderful.

And you'll be flummoxed by the amount of effort the players give.

I've watched triple overtime games wondering, "How can they stand, never mind play at this level?"

Mike Gaynes
207 Posted 04/02/2019 at 23:24:55
Steve #190, agree with your description of who Brands would hire, and that Cocu would be a likely target. But like Drew I cannot agree that Moyes was in any way responsible for the crashing and burning of nut cases like Drenthe and VDM. And my opinion of Ferguson is well known -- he may have had the personality, but he was never, and is not, anything resembling a legend IMO.

Off topic, for those who are interested, this article in the Telegraph lists the current Prem refs and their proclivities to throw cards. It will come as a surprise to absolutely no one that Dean shoots players like Wyatt Earp, pulling twice as many reds as any other ref in the competition. Another interesting stat is that Fat Boy Mason has been given only 13 games this season, despite his seniority -- seems to be ticketed for retirement.

Name Games-Fouls-Yellows-Reds-Yellows per Game
M. Dean 19 414 81 9 4.26
C. Pawson 17 348 59 4 3.47
L. Mason 13 305 47 1 3.62
J. Moss 18 395 54 5 3.00
P. Tierney 17 362 60 1 3.53
K. Friend 17 376 58 1 3.41
L. Probert 11 241 33 3 3.00
S. Attwell 13 238 43 1 3.31
C. Kavanagh 15 293 47 1 3.13
M. Atkinson 20 432 62 1 3.10
A. Taylor 21 448 68 0 3.24
M. Oliver 20 425 57 5 2.85
A. Marriner 19 331 54 3 2.84

Mike Jones
208 Posted 04/02/2019 at 23:26:23
Can’t believe some of you want us (is, Jay) to beat Man City. You clearly don’t live in the city. Schadenfreude is alive and kicking in the Jones household. I suspect it can be found in many other households too. I’m hoping beyond hope that the RS fuckers do not win the league by any means. Ever. Reading the BBC it appears the rest of the country/world is coming on board with the same thought. It’s been a long time coming ; the myth is being exposed.
Oliver Molloy
209 Posted 04/02/2019 at 23:28:07
Ah now Brian...come on..

Do you think Mc Carthy might start this Weds night?

Jamie Crowley
210 Posted 04/02/2019 at 23:29:33
One last note on the hockey thing.

I really believe that's why I can get so passionate / pissed with "soccer." You see these guys not putting in an effort in soccer. It's maddening in the extreme. It turns me into "Captain Caps" on the Live Forum.

I grew up playing hockey. You just didn't coast. There was never, ever a thought in your head along the lines of, "Well, if I just pull it back a notch."

I still have a really, really hard time understanding the soccer mind. How can you go out on the pitch and put in a half-assed effort?

Were I a manager, and to be sure if I managed Everton we'd be relegated in a week but I digress, I'd never play a guy who went through the motions. I'd find 11 of the most driven mofo's with talent I could, and tell them to just go out there and tear it up.

It's why Millwall beat us. It's why we got knocked out of the League Cup (Silva deciding he didn't have to march out a squad that was our best on the night, he "gave up"). That drives me batshit crazy, is entirely unforgivable, and I can't understand how it's even remotely tolerated.

Off my high-horse.

Paul Jeronovich
211 Posted 04/02/2019 at 23:30:50
Regardless of what is said about Moyes he left us for a crack at the biggest club in the world. That is something you earn. Failure or not the way he managed us got him that top job.

No matter how opinion of him splits us, I don’t believe he would have blew Moshiri’s investment the way Koeman and Walsh did. We may not have been in the top six either but I bet we would be more united behind him as a fan base and would have enjoyed more good days than bad.

Peter Jansson
212 Posted 04/02/2019 at 23:35:11
Talking about hockey. I am from Sweden where hockey is like the national sport. Maybe football should experiment by taking ideas from hockey to make the game more exiting.

A regular penalty in hockey is 2 minutes. It does not sound much but one penalty change the whole game as it is impossible for any team to control the game 4 to 5.

With only 5 men on the pitch, playing 5 to 4 would be equal to play 10 to 8 in football.

What is interesting with this approach is that it makes the games more unpredictable. And it is not a severe damage if the referee makes a wrong desicion about a pentalty since there normally are about 5-6 penalties for each team in every game.

There are also penalties for 5 minutes and like a red card for the whole game. If the goalie makes a penalty normally another player can take the penalty for him.

If to try this in football, an idea could be having a player our for for example 5 minutes, 15 min or the whole game depending on the severity of the penalty.

Add Var and effective playtime football could be even more fun than today.

Chris Corn
213 Posted 04/02/2019 at 23:36:16
You've done well there Olivor Molloy, hanging out a tasty morsel of gossip to a hungry audience baying for blood, then going all coy as you don't want to compromise your source.

Always amazes me how 'somebody's', who will probably have signed some form of non disclosure agreement are prepared to jeopardize their career to give sensitive info to someone who goes straight on a fans forum and spills the beans.

However, as I have seen this ITK stuff numerous times when we are struggling under whatever manager, excuse me if I remain sceptical.

Mike Gaynes
214 Posted 04/02/2019 at 23:41:26
Pat #201, loved your rundown on US sports. Just a couple of quibbles: "Baseball skills aren't natural, they're earned through hard work." Not really. Baseball requires more natural skill (not raw physical talent, but precision skill) than any other sport. It's why the failure rate of "prospects" is so high, regardless of hard work. And in hockey, "fist fights on a regular basis" is no longer the case -- this season the rate is down to a fight every six games. The overwhelming majority of players will go through the entire season without having a single one.

Jamie #206, spot on re hockey players. When I was a sportscaster, they were always the best, most open and most articulate interviews -- striking because they are often the least educated of any "top sport" athletes.

Brian Williams
215 Posted 04/02/2019 at 23:41:47
Oliver. Ah I see. Players hairdressers sister in law........again!
Chris Hockenhull
216 Posted 04/02/2019 at 23:45:32
Mike Jones. 208. I first went to see Everton in November 1963. I am 63 this June. I have supported Everton all my sporting life..therefore I don't give a shit about other things and what ifs etc.Everton play a game?''simple then..I want them to WIN. I wonder why they call up bitter?. Coyb Wen night. Fuck them...they can screw up the title on their own. 3 pts to The Blues! Work it up them Blues.theb The Shite next too!


Oliver Molloy
217 Posted 04/02/2019 at 23:49:45
lol Brian, how did you find that out...

Well Chris,
Thank you for your under standing of the situation. I do believe this to be very true I can assure.
Two players in particular he apparently was quite nasty with, speaking in his native tongue.

We will see !

Eddie Dunn
218 Posted 04/02/2019 at 23:51:38
To write off Moyes and Maureen is close to ageism. They are not dinosaurs, and I would guess that either of them would get a better tune out of this squad than Silva.
Seriously, Pelligrini is still doing a good job and Moyes did okay at West Ham. These guys know the PL has changed, but football is a simple game and they all still know a lot more than us amateurs.
Indeed, many of the above comments would suggest that having an Iberian coach does not equall success.
I have a lot of admiration for what Warnock is doing at Cardiff. Now there is a place full of passion and committment.
There is much to be said for people who know thier trade.
I saw a documentary about knife makers in Japan. There was a "student " a British guy who had been an apprentice for 32 years. His knives sold for £18,000 each. He could make perhaps 10 -15 per year. The Master Knife maker was 82 years old. With his advancing years he could only make 6-8 knives per year. They sold for £40,000 each.
These were men who knew their craft.
In these days of instant gratification it is worth considering a manager who has worked for many years and it is worth considering players who have mastered their craft.
If they are only at the club for a short time, at least they can impart some wisdom.
Remember how well Gareth Barry would read a game. How he would pull someone down in just the right way to prevent a goal, before the card would be red.
How Andy Gray would take a run to the left of the box, taking the centre half wth him making space for Heath to run in to.
Enough of this trendy, under 40, slicked -back hair and good looks. Let's hear it for the balding, the wrinkled and the straight-talking over 60's coaches.
Chris Corn
219 Posted 04/02/2019 at 23:57:12
Sorry Oliver, you're opening line of 'Anyone hear what I heard...' leads me to believe you are just regurgitating gossip from The Winslow or some similar boozer and are not a trusted confidante of the alleged source. As you say though, we will see !
Andrew Laird
220 Posted 04/02/2019 at 23:58:59
It’s about time someone said the players were going through the motions, we have seen it for the last 3 seasons but good on Marco for digging them out and using the correct terminology instead of this “confidence” bullshit that Martinez, Koeman and then Unsworth all pedalled.

The only issue I have is that if he knows that some of them are shirking why is the match day squad pretty much the same EVERY bloody week!

After this rallying cry if he drastically alters personnel and or tactics/formation he might just win some of the crowd back.

Mike Jones
221 Posted 04/02/2019 at 00:00:01
Hi Chris. Yes, call me bitter. I want us to win everything. If we can't; and it's fairly clear at the moment that we can't, then I want the Shite to win nothing. We lost at home to Man City in March 2014 after Barkley scored first. I was happy. I bet you are today too even though it was an insignificant single result at the time for us. If we had won, the shite would have been champions. History wouldn't remember the single game which meant nothing to us but would have given them another title . and their shitty fans would be beating you and your family up with a shitty stick ever since.

So don't give me bollocks about being a bigger supporter than me. I love this club, but I'm happy to take a defeat for the bigger picture. Bitter? You bet I am but blame Emlyn Hughes for starting that when lots of blues congratulated them on their first European cup and got pissed on (by the way, look how they won that first one, with a bye first round). Come on City (or Spurs). I'd prefer City, because even though they've spent loads of money and their fans are gobshites, their players are sublime.
Justin Doone
222 Posted 04/02/2019 at 00:09:42
I love watching sport but trying to compare them is incredibly hard.

Individual sports like tennis, boxing, swimming IMO have the most dedicated sports people because they are on their own which in itself is tough but they are both incredibly physicaly and psychologically demanding.

They have to be incredibly fit and skilful and be 100% on it for hours at a time, day after day, week after week etc. But comparing the 3 of them only goes to prove how different they are.

Back to football, like most sports, once a player has 'made it' i.e. Long lucrative contract that's when the laziness label is more easily thrown around. But may like everyone else they sometimes have bad times, go off form and have other life issues to deal with.

But I think in most team sports it's easier to switch off and blame team mates for mistakes rather than admit their own failings. That's when a manager needs to earn his crust. Spot the under performing players and deal with it.

But in the USA they do have the draft system which changes the rules in having to nurture your own players from a young age. In some ways it's fairer but is also open to abuse and throwing up games to benefit the following season.

Football (euro style) is such a different beast. It's far more ingrained into our physci that it's unlike anything else. It simply can't be explained or compared.

It's not just the UK or Europeans. The South Americans, Africans and more commonly in Asia too, the terrible life effecting things that happen around the sport are sad and shocking.

It shouldn't be this way, but it is and has been for decades.

Jerome Shields
223 Posted 05/02/2019 at 00:13:57
Talk of extending Baines contract. Same old regime.
John Pierce
224 Posted 05/02/2019 at 00:14:32
JaC. I’ve become completely engrossed by NHL. My wife and I were full season holders at the Devils for three seasons. We now go 12 times year but with great seats. The full 41 home game thing was a commitment, especially a 7 game home stand!

The pure energy is intoxicating especially when you can feel the impact on the boards/glass.

Such skill and we were at both playoff games against the Lightning, it was 10-15% more intense.

The rest of the major sports are very disappointing products. Since I’ve been here I’ve watched NFL less and less as they destroy each other and the product with it.

Gaute Lie
225 Posted 05/02/2019 at 00:19:51
Bring a whip to training, Marco. Perhaps that would be a motivator.
John Pierce
226 Posted 05/02/2019 at 00:22:48
Tony 183. I watched the game start to finish. Observing Klopp harangue the referee at the end I thought what on earth do you have to be upset about?

The referee was lenient and the linos benevolent on multiple occasions. Keita and Mane could easily have been booked for breaking play down.

I felt sure Origi was going to score when he was offside by a continent or so.

Perhaps he is getting a little edgy?

Rob Marsh
228 Posted 05/02/2019 at 00:53:41
Some of them RS players were so far offside tonight, they were playing back in front of an empty Kop.
Rob Marsh
230 Posted 05/02/2019 at 01:09:32
Pat Finegan #201

Excellent post Pat!

I've read that the NBA is as corrupt as professional wrestling or your average MP.

They're (the refs) allowing the the big names in that sport to get away with allsorts of wrong doing on the court so they look good and the sponsorships keep coming.

Basically certain defenders and refs know not to interupt (or rather back off a bit) when a big name tries a spectacular play.

Don Alexander
231 Posted 05/02/2019 at 01:27:27
Billionaire buys the most consistent "premier league"/top level football club in English history, albeit now on hard times.

Billionaire re-employs the man who's overseen those hard times for twenty fucking years minimum to direct the billionaire in the best way to progress to the top of the heavily populated properly run clubs, within three years.

Three years later, having spent the equivalent of a quarter/sixth/eighth of the billionaire owner's money on players (and who the fuck knows what percentage, this guy is a billionaire accountant after all!) the billionaire owner sees his latest. fourth, manager, chosen by him personally, fail to cut the mustard into which the billionaire inserted him.He apparently inserted the manager before asking his subsequently appointed director of football for his opinion on who should be manager. Oh dear.

Regardless, as his realisation that his fourth manager was as useless as his first three in terms of achieving top four, the billionaire berates him, in effect, to the supporters at their annual "jamboree". His team play like planks in the next game, a recurring theme.

The game after that will be against the champions. Four other future matches at the billionaire's "fortress" are against teams always well above us in terms of recent seasons. The billionaire needs at least six more points from the possible 39 available to enable him to continue in the Premier League. What is he to do to remain loyal to his fortune?

His entire business plan in terms of screwing a mega-dividend out of the re-development of "Ten-Streets" is on the back of an alleged new football stadium, the plans for which remain as curious as the Turin Shroud.

His latest manager appointee is as apparently useless as his previous three.

The world in which such useless managers exist now realise that Everton is the very best place for a.n.other useless manage to be associated with. They're made for life, win lose or draw.

To them Moshiri = Personal Opulence. End of.

Nicholas Ryan
232 Posted 05/02/2019 at 01:50:44
Pete [95]. I had to read it 3 times, to get it... but now that I do; wonderful!
Steve Brown
233 Posted 05/02/2019 at 01:57:02
Great to see Kloppo losing the plot at the end of the West Ham game. Losing their bottle and who will they blame it on this time?
Pat Finegan
234 Posted 05/02/2019 at 02:21:05
Mike (214) with baseball, I oversimplified it for the purpose of discussion. Point is, that raw natural talent needs to be honed over years of youth baseball, then 4-5 levels of minor league ball before you even get a shot on the majors. That weeds out the guys who don't truly love the game and want to put the work in. Regarding hockey fights, the guys in the league now grew up watching hockey with fights on a regular basis and chose to play, not knowing that fights were going away.

My ultimate point is that, in football, it's a real challenge to figure out which players have the stomach for premier league level competition, in front of a crowd of people who live and die with the result of the match. Raw talent can get a footballer to a high level, but it doesn't win anything. We have tons of raw talent, but no one with the stomach to turn it in to wins. It's just not obvious in this sport who has the stomach for it.

I don't want Moyes back at all, but I will say that I think his most underappreciated trait was being able to spot the fiery attitude in a player and coax it out. Even in the average players, Neville, Heitinga, Hibbert, Stracqualursi, etc. Our next manager (I think Silva being let go at some point is a near certainty) needs to have the ability to see a player who has that elite desire to win.

Pat Finegan
235 Posted 05/02/2019 at 02:28:45
Rob (230) it's not as corrupt as it's sometimes made out to be. It's had its scandals, but it's not as if it's completely rigged. The biggest issue is the non-enforcement of the traveling rules. You have to dribble the ball in order to run with it. Once you pick it up, you get 2 steps before you have to shoot or pass, otherwise, it's called traveling. Guys are always taking 3 steps and it doesn't get called. Great sport though. Not as good as football, but worth watching.
John Pierce
236 Posted 05/02/2019 at 02:47:54
Pat some good chat going here. I might offer Moyes could spot a gritty character not because he was good at it, moreover he just had to look in the mirror.

A team is always the image of its manager. Moyes as a player, the man. Some talent, the rest was all blood and sweat.

Even players as gifted as Arteta and Pienaar we’re happy to throw in a shocker of a tackle under Moyes.

I actually believe they all have it in them but the manager’s example and personality is at odds with what he wants.
The result; a hesitant, introverted team with significant confidence issues.

People say it takes time to coach a team in your image, I’d argue this team reflects Silva quite accurately.

Alan J Thompson
237 Posted 05/02/2019 at 02:54:43
Paul(#211); I'm not sure Moyes "earned" the United job but got it in much the same way he got the Everton appointment. He was hired on the word of sacked Walter Smith, according to all reports, and another old friend of the family, Alex Ferguson, anointed him for the United job in much the same way as his mate Smith was hired as an assistant for a couple of months. Having said that, I think Moyes efforts at Everton are much underrated albeit we won nothing.
Jamie Crowley
238 Posted 05/02/2019 at 04:06:59
Having seen, in person (ahem. . . on TV) David Moyes' team take the pitch, I think there's a lot of romanticizing about his tenure.

It's understandable.

Moyes did have passionate teams. And as Sir John Pierce points out, it's to be applauded - the blood and guts effort we witnessed so often. There were many, many games where you'd question the lineups, the tactics, the player positions, but I rarely recall anyone questioning the effort.

But that passion instilled by Moyes aside, and yes we should look back on that with some degree of fondness, David Moyes is unequivocally NOT the way forward.

Today's footballer, and the Premier League in general, have moved on from that. Today's manager needs to motivate a la Pep Guardiola, and have a footballing brain to match.

We'll never have Pep. But we need someone like him.

Klopp too. For all his bullshit excuses (annoying in the extreme), and his bullshit antics (running on the pitch to hug his keeper), he's not sedentary on the sideline. He's "with" the players, encouraging them from the touchline. He puts in every tackle, pass, shot, etc., with his men "in spirit".

I see Silva not as emotionally involved. Not as able to inspire "in game" as some of his piers. And that concerns me.

Peter Mills
239 Posted 05/02/2019 at 07:08:51
I will be delighted if we can take a total of 3 points from our games against Man City and the rs, provided we take them in a very specific way.
Tony Abrahams
240 Posted 05/02/2019 at 08:14:13
I thought Gomes, had his best game for ages Oliver, so besides Richarlson, who else would have been getting screamed at in Portuguese?

I hope you’re right about Klopp, JP, but I just think he’s a bit of a crank. Everyone likes a happy crank, and most people are scared to upset them, because they know how bad a unhappy lunatic can become.

Daniel A Johnson
241 Posted 05/02/2019 at 08:25:24
Don't think just because a manager isn't jumping around on the touchline like a cat on a hot bricks, it suddenly makes him a bad manager.

The pantomime antics of Klopp and Guardiola have nothing to do with being a good coach. The reason why Klopp and Guardiola are doing well is £400M to £500M well spent.

If we had Kane, Aguero, Jesus, Salah or even Son up front we would be saying very different things about Marco Silva.

Look at the best of the rest, they even have Rashford, Lacazette, Aubamayang, Higuan, Hazard, Martial, & Lukaku up front.

Whats killed us this year is sloppy goals and our complete lack of a quality striker. Calvert-Lewin isn't good enough or ever will be and Tosun is championship class at best.

I'm 100% behind Marco calling out the players they have been shit houses for years. Also, what is this crisis we speak of? We are a few points off 7th which is where we should be. The quality players listed above underline why we won't get anywhere near the top 6 in the next 5 years

Liam Reilly
242 Posted 05/02/2019 at 08:46:26
Kloop needs to calm down or he's a heart attack waiting to happen. What's he got to moan about to the referee when his team are gifted an offside goal?

Hopefully we'll see tomorrow night who are the demotivated players as they are dropped from the teamsheet. Time for Silva to stand up, but I'm still one of the minority who's willing to give him time.

He needs a summer to get shot of the deadwood that's all too prevalent throughout the squad.

Eddie Dunn
243 Posted 05/02/2019 at 09:39:26
Tony #240. How true. I wrote last season on BBC website that I thought Klopp was a control freak, a horrible manipulator, and a bully. They (BBC) suspended my comment and sent me an email. The missus was very cross, as our BBC account is in her name!

I don't know if what I said was in any way libellous but they certainly didn't like it. At that time, the media were so in love with the lovable persona that he pretends to be.

Paul Cherrington
244 Posted 05/02/2019 at 09:57:11
If any Everton fan cannot appreciate what David Moyes did for the club, they are either blind or foolish. We could certainly use some of what he brought to the table now and the standards that were set during his tenure. He is the best modern manager we have had in the last 15 or 20 years and should be applauded for not only where he took us too but where he brought us from.

Before anyone starts talking about losing cup finals, poor European runs etc... at least he got us there in the first place. As we have seen since, it is not quite as easy as he made it look.

Brent Stephens
245 Posted 05/02/2019 at 10:26:27
Tony #240 is that why you don't upset Dave?!

I don't think a manager can be motivating his players during a game without being demonstrative on the line but Klopp really does get to me.

Rob Halligan
246 Posted 05/02/2019 at 10:33:26
Steve # 233. Klopp has come out and blamed it on the West Ham bubble machine.

Klopp said "At the start of each half they have this bubble machine. Bubbles get into the players eyes, making them sting, whilst some fall onto the pitch making it almost unplayable"

"It seemed forever blowing bubbles, so high into the sky, as I watched sullenly, my dreams fade and die. They were everywhere. Still, for a while, it was good to see those pretty bubbles in the air"

Dave Ganley
247 Posted 05/02/2019 at 10:34:50
Some interesting discussion going on.

Firstly Mike #221, I totally get where you're coming from. I live in the city and the RS are insufferable twats at the moment. I remember Hughes outside St George's Hall too.

However, I can never bring myself to wish Everton lose a game even though it may benefit them across the park. If we give it our best and we lose then fair enough, it's a bonus if we stick a dagger into the RS heart but to lie down? Not for me.

Steve #190, I tend to agree with quite a few of your points apart from the Van der Meyde and Drenthe ones. They were gamble buys in the hope that They would come good. They didn't so he didn't play them.

Moyes was in a pretty original position when he first came in that he could virtually work from a blank canvas due to us being that bad. He looked whom He could work with and got rid of the rest. The big thing about Moyes when he was with us was that for most part, if you didn't play like he wanted and have the right attitude then you didn't play and you would be phased out.

I remember Jesper Blonquvist being stroppy when he got subbed. Decent player on his day but I don't think he played again.

He did "make" players. I think the likes of Cahill Pienaar and the like bought into what he was doing and played accordingly. Moyes was the right man at the right time. He kick started us and made us competitive again. His flaws were obvious and even with the team he had around 2007 to 09, he still wouldn't have a go when we visited the top 4.

We were good enough to have won at those places at the time as seen when we took it to some of these teams at Goodison Park but away from home we just went ultra defensive trying to get a point. He deserves credit for what he did at Everton but is not the way forward.

Pat Finegan #201, thanks for that input,very interesting. One point I have to pick up on regarding NFL and player power or lack thereof is the Colin Kaepernick issue.

We all look at players and bemoan the amount of power players have yet, in my opinion, the one time that sporting icons take a stand against something important he gets hung out to dry.

I get the point about not taking politics into the sporting arena but when all else fails, a sporting icon showing solidarity against social injustice then surely that's his right in a free society?

As far as Everton players not showing any kind of consistency with performance then Silva is right. Maybe it's the modern footballer, too much too soon, no incentive or desire apart from the big games. We are not the only team that displays this. Even Sarri was saying the same thing last weekend.

There appears to be only Man City and RS who seem to be getting a consistent tune out of the players. I guess this is one of the reasons Moyes name keeps popping up, he got consistency out of the Everton team during his reign. (I don't want him back by the way).

I think Silva's only way of stopping this kjnd of inconsistency is dropping some of these players. Some of the so-called big names are clearly not doing it and Richarlison is one of the worst at the moment. Contributing very little and becoming such an embarrassment with his theatrics. One on Saturday right in front of us, everybody around me were going mad with his pathetic attempt to get a free kick.

Until we make players earn their places then we will continually get this kind of inconsistency. Silva needs to start earning his pay. Drop the undroppable, what's the worst that can happen, we get beat again?

Jimmy Hogan
248 Posted 05/02/2019 at 11:25:20
Daniel #241, harsh but true. If we finish less than seventh, we've under performed. Higher than that and we've over performed.
Ray Robinson
249 Posted 05/02/2019 at 11:52:19
I haven't contributed on ToffeeWeb for a variety of reasons for quite some time now but one point makes me feel compelled to comment. For those of you who both criticise the lack of commitment and application of the players and who wish Everton to lose tomorrow night, don't you see the irony of the situation? If we the fans can't be arsed, why criticise the players when they can't be?

If Silva put out the youth team to ensure that we lost tomorrow, everyone would be calling for his head – and rightly so.

I don't want to see Liverpool win anything just as much as the next Blue, but I want Everton to win tomorrow night. There are 13 chances left for Liverpool to cock up in their own right – hopefully including defeat in the derby match.

Geoff Cadman
250 Posted 05/02/2019 at 11:58:28
A lot has been said about communication. I spent all my working life in a muti-national environment. When things were running smoothly, like this season before the derby, then fine. As soon as the shit hits the fan everybody panics in their own language.

How many foreign players did Moyes sign? How many of them had English as their first language, or had played in the UK for a number of years previously?

The only reason we finished 8th last season was the return of Jagielka and Baines. Previous to that, we had won 2 in 12.

Liam Heffernan
251 Posted 05/02/2019 at 12:08:18
Ray #249, I totally agree. We should always want our team to win. Let's forget the RS and focus on supporting our own. We can bicker/ debate but always back Everton in every game. COYB.
Brian Murray
252 Posted 05/02/2019 at 12:17:34
I totally get the contrasting belief over wanting a victory or not versus Man City has a lot to do if you live in the city and have to bump into them more.

C'mon City!

James Marshall
253 Posted 05/02/2019 at 12:26:44
It's an interesting point, but all football supporters have the right to an opinion - mine is that the bigger picture matters more, so I'd happily swallow a defeat against City if it sends them top of the league over those shites.

You can call me whatever you like for feeling that way, but anything to stop their bleating is alright by me, and we have very little to play for this season aside from mid table obscurity and losing to City holds no weight either way.

Silva won't lose any face over a loss to one of the best teams in Europe, and neither will our players. I won't watch willing us to lose as such because nearly 40 years of support has ingrained Everton into my soul, but I won't be even slightly irked if we lose.

I think we'll lose anyway.

Derek Taylor
254 Posted 05/02/2019 at 12:28:09
I never 'liked' Moyes, just as I didn't Catterick and a large number of others we've had as managers. But with those two, for the most part, I always felt we were in safe hands.

I can't say the same about any of the 'Johnnie Come Latelies' we've had in recent years as they've all seemed flawed from first minute to last.

Perhaps, though, the present incumbent will redeem himself with a stirring win tomorrow. Stranger things have happened !

Neil Copeland
255 Posted 05/02/2019 at 12:48:26
I think that for once the performance tomorrow is far more important than the result (to us that is). I can't bring myself to hope for a defeat in any game we play but accept that others see it differently.

Considering the lack of passion shown by a number of players I doubt very much if they will go out tomorrow intending to lose because it helps Man City in the title race. That is not say that they won't give up if we go 2 down.

As I said in an earlier post, I have a strange feeling about tomorrow and think we will get something from it.

Tony Everan
256 Posted 05/02/2019 at 12:53:59
James 253

I know where your coming from to think like that.

Personally, I would rather see some kind of cohesive and promising performance from us. I would like to see us play as a team compact and combative. Maybe we could even get behind the opposition defence for the first time since Shrove Tuesday.

Fuck Liverpool, if they win or if they don't. For me it is all about us, I want to see a better system, formation and understanding from the players and manager. I want us to take a small step to having a good run and creating some sort of stability for the club.

If we win and it kick starts us and offers us the first step on the path to success and managerial stability, that's got to be a good outcome, regardless of whether Liverpool win the Premier League.

For what it's worth, I don't think they have the squad to see the season out anyway.

Christopher Timmins
257 Posted 05/02/2019 at 12:58:40
Silva has been consistent in picking from a small pool of players during the season, if players are not motivated why is he not giving others an opportunity. I can't see why Jags is not getting more game time and the same goes for McCarthy.

Tom Bowers
258 Posted 05/02/2019 at 13:03:22
Tony, I am not sure it will kick-start Everton's season if by some miracle they win or just avoid defeat but it's hard to imagine getting anything from the game with Everton's innocuous offense.

Silva is blaming the players for not being motivated but whose responsibility is it and how many games this season have they shown that deficiency?

Something is ''rotten in Denmark'' (apologies to all Danes) as they say and the controlling factors at Goodison haven't figured it out yet.

How about ''the squad just isn't good enough'' and never will be as it stands.

Eddie Dunn
259 Posted 05/02/2019 at 13:37:11
I don't want Liverpool to win the league but I do want us to put in a shift tomorrow night. It is imperative that the team respond to the ridicule from certain sections of the media. Surely most players watch MotD and many British players must listen to 5Live and Talksport. All these platforms have had pundits berating our zonal system, and the fans have also been voicing their views on the phone-ins.

The players need to respond to their coach. Once again his selection will be interesting. Will he merely rearrange the deckchairs or will we see McCarthy, Gana or Schneiderlin in the line-up?

Also, will there be any noticeable change in how we set-up? We shall see.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

260 Posted 05/02/2019 at 13:48:35
Said my piece about the pros and cons of 'wishing' for a defeat against City on another thread.

Wholeheartedly against the very notion of wishing defeat on my own team, EVER!

On another story, anyone else seen this report on the Bolasie last day transfer to Anderlecht?

Link

The story's headline says it all: 'Everton did something wrong: crazy mishap at Goodison caused deadline day panic'.

At lunchtime that day, apparently, everything was seemingly in place. But then Anderlecht discovered some oversight at our end and the transfer went right down to the wire and looked as if it wasn't going through.

How close? This is the quote from Anderlecht:

"Everton did something wrong, and one minute before midnight the light was still red. Everyone was shaking. Crazy. Only 43 seconds before the market closed: green light. One minute later and we were empty-handed.”

Everton, that.

Oh! The report also mentions the good relationship with Marcel Brands smoothed the deal AND that Romelu Lukaku advised Bolasie Anderlecht would be good for him!

Simon Jones
261 Posted 05/02/2019 at 14:01:22
Discussing the RS game on here?

It's TOFFEEWEB, not RedShiteweb

Jerome Shields
262 Posted 05/02/2019 at 14:06:01
Don #231.

Your description is Everton in a nutshell. What's more, it is all set to continue.

Even Silva has a 3-year contract, which will mean he can walk away with a fortune, which he is never worth. Brands got promoted to the Board on half a season and one transfer window.

Moshiri needs the help of his Russian Friend. Moshiri will be faced with requirements for further funds this Summer for transfers, regulations permitting.

As far the new stadium is concerned, Moshiri, in my opinion, having been involved in large scale building projects, has not got a tight enough rein on Everton. When the finance is put in place for the stadium, he could find other demands could come to the fore, such is the Everton management.

The finance that Moshiri had made available for players has basically gone on tapping into the old boy network, contracts for staff, players and maintaining a backroom regime. Basically, the same regime as before. The culture of Everton is a sense of entitlement to this status quo. An extension of Baines's contract has been mooted, which was part and parcel of the old regime.

His Russian friend will point out the actual situation and his mismanagement of the Club takeover. If this does not happen, I doubt there will be a new stadium with the present management of Everton in place.

Derek Knox
263 Posted 05/02/2019 at 14:18:47
Jay @260,

Yes, I saw that the day after the window shut, typical Everton making a cock-up, but luckily as you say Marcel Brands was there to rescue the day. Cut it fine though!

Dave Abrahams
264 Posted 05/02/2019 at 14:36:26
Jay (260), “ Everton that” – exactly.

I believe Mrs Barrett-Baxendale is looking into it.

Trevor Peers
265 Posted 05/02/2019 at 14:46:13
Silva has been given the dreaded vote of confidence by Moshiri according to Sky Sports. Insisting 'You have to hold your nerve in this business' and Silva will continue to coach and develop our young players hoping they become stronger every year.

Good luck with that Mr Moshiri, shades of the Aston Villa situation when they kept faith with David O'Leary in my opinion, we all know what happened to them. Lerner lost patience with the project, stopped funding them and they got relegated.

Steve Ferns
266 Posted 05/02/2019 at 14:46:56
My criticism of Jose Mourinho is nothing to do with age. I have a Portuguese connection and spending a lot of time there from before he first came to these shores, he's someone I followed closely and admire immensely.

I would say that the single greatest managerial feat of 21st Century is Jose Mourinho winning the Champions League with Porto. No one else has come close to matching that, but perhaps Ranieri came close at Leicester. Jose proved it was no fluke by also winning the Super Liga 3 times and had immediately preceded the Champions League win with a UEFA Cup / Europa League win. Then he took his success to the big clubs at Chelsea, Inter and Real Madrid.

Many books have been written on him. I have read a couple. The thing that comes through is that his man-management skills are perhaps the greatest in football, and only Alex Ferguson can match him. I won't go into too much detail but Mourinho studied psychology and he incorporated this into football. He was able to utilise his knowledge of psychology to enhance his man-management skills.

The reason Jose Mourinho is not Jose Mourinho is that instead of having unparalleled man-management skills, he's actually been very poor in his man-management skills at Man Utd. He repeated called his players out over a number of months. Luke Shaw was being openly slaughtered in press conferences for almost the entire time he was there. This is not what Mourinho did at Porto or in his first stint at Chelsea. Terry and Lampard loved the guy. All the players did. The players at Man Utd despise him, so much so that they are suddenly winning game after game since he left and look completely different players. No doubt Solksjaer is a good coach (but spells at Cardiff and his second stint at Molde do not support this). Mourinho was not being Mourinho, for me.

The point about Moyes is similarly about him not doing what made him a very good manager. At Everton, we all know he made the astute "People's Club" comments, and tapped into the psyche of the club and this carried him through the difficult times (of which there were many over the first five years or so as we yo-yoed up and down the table between 4th and 17th). At Sunderland, Moyes came in and told the fans who Allardyce had just kept up that they were deep in a relegation scrap, before a ball was kicked. Signing the likes of Anichebe he kept making comments that were very un-Moyes like. He had a completely defeatist attitude. Everything he did at Sunderland was the opposite of what he had done at Everton. Moyes was a very good manager because he worked extremely hard. Even his detractors will concede that Moyes put the time and effort in. It just seemed to be a different story at Sunderland. It did not seem any better at West Ham. For me, Moyes was just not Moyes.

Have I said either are finished? No. Mourinho and Moyes both seem tired. Maybe a prolonged period out of football would be good for both to recharge their batteries, and to be ready to come back and work like they used. Nothing to do with age. I always think of Sarri as a "fresh" manager. He's 59. His ideas are different and still somewhat new, and he's only been in top level football a short time. So, I reject any notion of being ageist.

On the points of Van Der Meyde and Drenthe, I think they were not gambles they should not have taken. That's not my point. My point was that these were players with big reputations coming from big clubs (Inter and Real Madrid). Correct me if I'm wrong, but these two were the only players we got directly from big clubs who had been big stars, even if they were damaged by the time they came.

Pienaar was a rising star at Ajax. He did not do well at Dortmund and came to Everton with a relatively low profile considering the club he left. He built his reputation at Everton.

My observation is that when the players built their reputations at Everton, then they did well. If they already came with a big reputation, then Moyes struggled to handle them. Moyes inherited Duncan Ferguson. He struggled to handle him as well. The difference there was Duncan had nowhere else to go and so had to conform (into being a supersub). I put the "legend" in inverted commas as I also would reject the notion that he deserves the status I reserve to very few Evertonians and ones who mainly have a number of trophies in the bank.

Moyes would have spent Moshiri's money wisely, but give him all the money in the world, and I can't see him winning the league. I do believe he cannot handle players like Paul Pogba. It requires a special type of personality. I doubt Solkjaer would have handled him so well if it wasn't that he was at Man Utd where he has everyone's respect (for his playing career), that Pogba is a Utd fan and probably looked up to Solkjaer, and most importantly, that he was not Mourinho ands Pogba had a point to prove. Managers like Ancelotti and Zidane are great managers because they can handle these personalities, and do so well at it because of their own glittering player careers. People often forget Ancelotti was a great player who won a long list of the very highest honours as a player, probably because he is unrecognisable from the guy who lifted the European Cup as AC Milan captain in 1990 (for the second consecutive season).

Ray Robinson
267 Posted 05/02/2019 at 14:47:29
James #253, what is the "bigger picture" though, that is the question?

Aside from helping Man City to catch Liverpool, thereby denying the latter a trophy, it could also mean a) a pointless defeat because Liverpool blow up anyway b) another defeat on top of all the recent ones, the straw that breaks the camel's back and means we'll be hardpressed to gain another point this season c) the final nail in Silva's coffin which precipitates his sacking d) further disillusionment on the part of the fans with reduced season-ticket uptake e) reduced income from final Premier League position?

I'm certainly not sure that which "bigger picture" will prevail but I'm certainly still slightly concerned by b). Let's leave Liverpool to blow up of their own volition.

Daniel Johnson
268 Posted 05/02/2019 at 14:48:13
Our Strike force consists of Dominic Calvert-Lewin and Cenk Tosun! Compare that to any of the top 6: Kane, Aguero, Jesus, Salah, Son, Rashford, Lacazette, Aubameyang, Higuan, Hazard, Martial and Lukaku. Can we add our strikers to players of that calibre… lol – can we heck.

The complete lack of a quality striker has killed us completely. Calvert-Lewin and Tosun are not up to it nor ever will be. We are where we belong which is mid-table, a few points off 7th place.

The quality players listed above underline why we won't get anywhere near the top 6 in the next 5 years. How are we expected to gate-crash the top 6 and compete when our strike force belongs in the Championship? The gulf in class at the moment seems insurmountable.

To think a new manager can come in, wave a magic wand, and turn the likes of Calvert-Lewin, Tosun, Walcott and Co into world-class players is beyond a joke.

It's pie in the sky to think Marco in 2/3rds of a single season can turn this badly disjointed squad into a top 6 outfit. It's totally unrealistic as we are simply not good enough… so the fact that we have the majority now calling for Silva’s head baffles me.

Support the manager and, if the players can't or won't perform, then ship them out. Bravo to Silva for pointing the finger of blame at them.
Simon Jones
269 Posted 05/02/2019 at 15:04:49
Steve #266

I think what you are essentially saying is, "Round pegs fit round holes."

Trevor Peers
270 Posted 05/02/2019 at 15:11:35
Made an error in my post @265.

Lerner never hired O'Leary, it was Douglas Ellis in 2003, who then sold the club in 2006 to Randy Lerner. O'Leary had left by then by mutual consent.

Steve Ferns
271 Posted 05/02/2019 at 15:16:14
Trevor, wasn't it Tim Sherwood who took them down?
Trevor Peers
272 Posted 05/02/2019 at 15:31:52
Or was it Remi Garde? Steve, Lerner had O'Neill then Mcliesh followed by Paul Lambert. Sherwood was appointed in the 2014-15 season followed by Garde. And we think we've got problems haha.
Raymond Fox
273 Posted 05/02/2019 at 15:43:29
Daniel, I agree. We are 10/1 to win the City game, it shows how much our stock has fallen with neutral opinion.

I also can't see anything other than a Man City win unfortunately, they will surely have too much firepower for us to contain.

It's a match though that our players have a free shot because nobody expects us to get anything from the game. As I say, I think we will be beaten but I fancy we will see a decent performance from our team.

Eddie Dunn
274 Posted 05/02/2019 at 15:44:15
Daniel, it may be true that we have not replaced Lukaku and our strikeforce is of a lesser quality, but we have scored goals and Sigurdsson and Richarlison have both scored plenty.

Whilst it has obviously had an impact on us, the main reason for our downturn is our inability to defend. Set pieces are our Achilles heel and if we had Kane up top, we would still have a mountain to climb.

Tony Everan
275 Posted 05/02/2019 at 16:19:47
Daniel #268 and Eddie #274

It's a combination, our defending of set pieces is amateur standard, too easy for any premier league club. They have worked us out a long time ago, even the Millwall manager was well on top of it . He won the game by researching, practicing then exploiting our ever malfunctioning defence. If Millwall can do it any of the top 40 clubs can .

Until we can defend set pieces we won't be winning many games, whatever the opposition .

As Daniel says, the fact that we have not got a top class proven striker will limit us to 7th at best.

If a team does have an inspirational figure at no9, other players can magically raise their game. Say if we had Diego Costa playing up front, he would be demanding much more of the midfield and wide men. I think we have players who could rise to that expectation.

This shift in psychology can spread throughout the whole team and create a more passionate and driven performance.

Finding one that would actively want to come is tough, paying the price for him will be nose bleeding stuff and hoping he does this biz will turn everyone grey !

Mr Brands has got his work cut out, but the rewards for getting that inspirational player in will transform the club .

Jay Harris
276 Posted 05/02/2019 at 16:24:29
Trevor the only problem is we seem to be following the Aston Villa model especially with what Moshiri told Sky.

Young players should not be introduced to a poorly performing and heavily criticised team.

That kills their confidence and stunts their development.

Steve Ferns
277 Posted 05/02/2019 at 16:37:52
Does it really Jay? There's plenty of examples where teams are in a mess and the kids get played and from the ashes of a dying side, new players are forged.

Look at Spurs. Pochettino gets all the plaudits. He didn't bring through all the kids. Tim Sherwood did. They were playing poorly, and Sherwood was sacked. But Spurs owe him a lot. He was the one who got Kane firing, and he established a load of them. Some were not good enough, like Andros Townsend. But he was able to bring through the ones who were, and so Pochettino's job was easier.

Say we played Dennis Adeniran. He's 20. The pressure is off him. But the lad is full of confidence and he's playing well. He'll also be buzzing at making his debut. He can easily come through with no fear like Davies did that first season. A couple of well placed, but talented youngsters could really give this squad a lift. They lack energy at the moment. Youngsters have it in abundance.

Ellis Simms had a bad game for the U23s; otherwise, I'd be saying have him on the bench. He's a big lad for 18, he's quick and he's full of self-belief.

The other A, Korede Adedoyin, is also scoring loads, and from deep in midfield. He looks like he could step up. He needs U23 football first, but he's 18; we've played younger. Rooney skipped the U21s back in his day. Why not give these lads a go? It's best when they are riding the crest of the wave, when they are fearless, and when we have nothing to lose.

Frank Sheppard
278 Posted 05/02/2019 at 16:46:18
I agree a lot with Daniel 268, well said, a much needed dose of sensible observations and common sense.
Tony Hill
279 Posted 05/02/2019 at 17:05:40
If the players want to play for Silva, or enough of the players do, then he has a chance. If, as is suggested above, the atmosphere in the dressing room is dead then so is he sooner or later. Youth, tactics, votes of confidence etc. notwithstanding.

Incidentally, and worryingly, I understand that Baines played with injections on Saturday. I thought we left that behind with Keane last season.

Jay Harris
280 Posted 05/02/2019 at 17:14:44
Steve,

I don't recall Spurs being in a mess the way that we have been for the last few years especially since Levy has been in charge and apart from Kane what other great youth players came through.

Don Alexander
281 Posted 05/02/2019 at 17:34:40
Levy has been Spurs chairman nearly as long as our plonker. In that time he's hired and fired 12 managers and, from memory, has more than matched our league position most seasons.

They're not known for splashing out on signings either but they do have a scouting system that recognises real talent before they hit the heights. It's what happens when you get it right at chairman level.

Steve Ferns
282 Posted 05/02/2019 at 17:38:33
Jay: Harry Kane, Ryan Mason, Andros Townsend, Nabil Bentaleb and Danny Rose. Tim Sherwood also claims credit for developing Kyle Walker.
Steve Ferns
283 Posted 05/02/2019 at 17:46:01
Don, it’s rare to get a successful businessman who is a football man, and so can combine those two things and also have wealth and access to greater wealth (Joe Lewis) to enable him to showcase his talents in the way Levy has. It’s hard to name another Levy in the Premier League era.
Ian Bennett
284 Posted 05/02/2019 at 18:04:28
Surely just hire in someone to drill them on defending set-pieces and keeping a better shape.

I am not advocating a full-on Allardyce, but 14 goals conceded and we aren't even finished for the season is a joke – when we have the number of 6 foot plus players on the pitch.

It's clearly not working, so fix it and quick. Weir, Gough, Watson etc – someone brought in to fix something with a British mentality.

Steve Ferns
285 Posted 05/02/2019 at 18:05:29
Cartoon In today’s guardian is Everton flavoured.
Steve Ferns
286 Posted 05/02/2019 at 18:09:58
Ian, has it ever occurred to you that we are just as bad at man-to-man marking, and that we've assembled a squad that just cannot head the ball?

Mina aside, and I put him forwards only on the basis of the World Cup, we have Zouma who's decent in the air. Keane is poor for his height. Coleman, Baines, Kenny and Digne are small. Gomes is tall but not physical enough. Gueye and Davies are small. Sigurdsson is like Gomes but skinnier. Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin are decent but the latter is not often on the pitch. Walcott and Bernard should be on the halfway line. The keeper is a small keeper.

Do you really think we'd not be conceding loads if we played man-to-man. Is it any wonder we don't score off set-pieces?

Neil Copeland
287 Posted 05/02/2019 at 18:12:15
Steve #285, brilliant! Thanks for sharing.
Dermot Byrne
288 Posted 05/02/2019 at 18:22:06
Lol Steve.
Jay Harris
289 Posted 05/02/2019 at 18:52:03
Steve,

You're clutching at straws there, mate.

Danny Rose was bought from Leeds and then spent 4 years out on loan before even being considered for the first team.

Kyle Walker (and the other Kyle) were well established at Sheffield United and ready to go straight in the first team. (Moyes tried to buy them).

Ryan Mason, Bentaleb and Andros Townshend could hardly be called Spurs Successes.

What I am talking about is genuine youth players not the likes of Lookman who was already successful at Charlton or Stones who was already successful at Barnsley.

As we both know there is a chasm between U23 and Premier League and only exceptional players like Rooney can make the jump without gradual development but I still maintain you cannot introduce too may kids into a struggling side and expect them to develop their potential.

Rob Marsh
290 Posted 05/02/2019 at 18:51:56
Mike Jones (#208),

The Schadenfreude (shameful joy) I suspect a very many of us are feeling, but many will not admit to, might in the long run have a useful outcome. If Liverpool did win the Premier League, try to imagine the celebrations this event would spark, we're talking about the equivalent of the Queen's 1977 Jubilee and all their previous Euro wins put together (and possibly the second coming of Christ) all rolled into one.

Despite what's happened on the pitch to EFC recently, I believe we are in a better position overall when viewed in the cold light of day, how much better we will find out next season. Having said we're in a better position, it is highly possible a Premier League title would distract many of the "don't know" kids about to choose a team, sending them to the dark side. Despite the sentiment "Blues are born and not manufactured", some do come to us later rather than at birth.

My own nephew, aged 7, is entirely surrounded by red munchkins in his class with not a single blue mate for comfort or support. It's not difficult to imagine the kind of pressure he's under. When I was his age, I had mates I could call upon for support and, at that period in our history, Liverpool were not as far ahead of us in terms of silverware as they are now. I've had a quiet and friendly chat with him and I feel he's not entirely happy and under some pressure.

If he, it pains me to say, drifted over to the other side based purely on peer pressure and just the basic human need to make friends, I would not apply any pressure on him to keep wearing that blue shirt with the name Richarlison on the back.

This is a real low point for me as blue, I'm suffering with what's happening on the pitch and have suffered in the past. I was unfortunately amongst a group of fervent kopites as a young lad and looking right down Souness's line of sight when he swivelled at Maine Road and volleyed one just inside the post past Neville.

These failures on the pitch, as far as I'm concerned – or rather, I've had to accept – are a part of being a Blue. The thought of my little playmate choosing another path, and it has to be said through no fault of his own, should it happen, will cut to the bone that bit more.

Ian Riley
291 Posted 05/02/2019 at 18:54:51
Motivation will take a team so far. Without quality this will limit a team from taking the next step. This is my belief when fellow supporter's want Jose has our manager. A top manager wants success but quality players to deliver.

I believe David Moyes could only take Everton so far. That extra quality may have had us more competitive for top four. Our method of selling top quality players must stop in the future. If the club are going to compete in the future then quality players must be brought in. I think the players are motivated but the quality to perform week in week out is difficult.

As we have seen teams like manchester city, united, liverpool, chelsea have a high number of players whom can change games. Sadly this squad is mid table. My expectation was mid table any more would have been an achievement.

However, Silva will only be able to use this excuse once. Motivation comes from the top. Players are millionaires, be creative in motivating them. If they can't get motivated, get rid. If not then bye Marco.

Steve Ferns
292 Posted 05/02/2019 at 19:09:53
Jay the list I gave was copied and pasted from an interview Sherwood gave. I'm not getting into a debate on that clown. The point is kids can come good in difficult times.

Times look like getting no better any time soon and haven't been good for a while. So, does that mean we don't blood any youngsters until they do?

Of course not. If they're good enough. You play them. We're top of both youth leagues, so give someone a chance.

Oliver Molloy
293 Posted 05/02/2019 at 19:12:09
Yes, Tony @ 240,

Keane and Sigurdsson with our Brazilian actor. I can't believe how many on here think that Everton won't win tomorrow night... Silva will be a genius again... lol

Derek Taylor
294 Posted 05/02/2019 at 19:13:52
David Moyes 'could only take his team so far' because he never had anything but minimal backing in the transfer market. Given the riches of Moshiri's reign, he would have spent the money wisely and would have had us as serious challengers for top four. And that's from someone who never liked him!
Craig Walker
295 Posted 05/02/2019 at 19:13:55
Rob @290. Brilliantly put. I have the same with my 8-year-old. His friends support the RS, Chelsea, Man Utd etc. He plays after school every Wednesday in an Everton shirt. He's been laughed at and at one point he said he didn't want to wear it.

Hard to tell him about history and what have you when we've never even beaten that lot in his lifetime. I can't bear the thought of them winning the league. I still feel sick when I think of the derby defeat and Klopp running on the pitch.

I love this club, even if I don't love the current players. Our ban from Europe still hurts. I don't mind if we lose tomorrow. I dread the thought of going to work with them gloating for a year. They are so miopic.

Today it was all about the referee (who gave them an offside goal) and how they've been unlucky with injuries (failing to mention Arnautovic, Yarmolenko, Nasri etc. who were injured for West Ham).

I don't begrudge Man City some success. They were in our boat for years having to watch the red half of the city rip into them. The fans followed them through some pretty dire times and teams. I wish it was us but it's not. I'll never want the RS to succeed. Bitter Blue? Maybe but I can't tolerate their arrogance.

Gordon Crawford
296 Posted 05/02/2019 at 19:16:17
Here here Craig.
Roger Helm
297 Posted 05/02/2019 at 19:22:51
Yes Derek, Moyesie must be spitting. His team had a good defence and a competitive and creative midfield, and the only thing lacking was a £40m 20+ goals per season centre forward. If Lukaku and Moshiri's money had been around then, I think we would have broken through the glass ceiling.
Jay Harris
298 Posted 05/02/2019 at 19:34:10
Steve,
Im sorry I didnt make my original point too well.

I am not saying don't give the youngsters a chance.

What I wanted to say is we cant make wholesale changes and bring a load of young inexperienced youth players in and expect them to end up a successful side like Villa did.

Ferguson is credited with building a good youth side at United but the truth is they bought up all the best young talent in the country and only developed one or two them selves.

The prem has got even stronger in the last few years such that Foden who is very highly rated cant even get a game for City.

Chris Leyland
299 Posted 05/02/2019 at 19:34:12
Craig and Rob - I echo your comments 100%. That lot winning the league will make life unbearable. Just the thought of their smug, arrogant faces if they win it makes me feel physically sick. Having to listen to them droaning on. The endless tv programmes that will be made.

From them clearing half a pitch of snow to cheat and try and beat Leicester to Klopp moaning about the officials last night in the context of the officials awarding them a clearly offside goal just sums them up to me. They are classless, clueless and hopefully remain trophy-less.

Alan McKie
300 Posted 05/02/2019 at 19:37:42
I have followed ToffeeWeb for many years but never registered until now.

It is down to the character of the player, whether he needs motivation or if he self-motivated. I pay £3 a session for walking football / 5 a side. We are all over 50, average age being 65. There is more fight and determination in our group of players than the load of so-called professionals we have on display.

Personal pride in your performance is paramount to any player recruitment in the future. I would happily go into the trenches with any of our group; not sure I would fancy that with most of our players.

Derek Taylor
301 Posted 05/02/2019 at 19:37:57
Sky running a poll on how many Evertonians hate RS more than they love Everton. Reds will be lining up to corrupt that poll. although I know of at least six of our tribe who see a City win as a step nearer Silva's demise so there are mixed agenda at work here, make no mistake!
Steve Ferns
302 Posted 05/02/2019 at 19:39:13
Ok Jay, you’re right that we can’t swap in more than a couple. If the things Marco Silva is implying are correct, then I hope he has the balls to go for it and select a kid straight from the youth setup.

We need a spark from somewhere. Why not the academy?

Eric Paul
303 Posted 05/02/2019 at 19:46:50
I've been a match going blue since 1969, so I've had my fill of that lot's success, so we need to beat Man City and the Red Shite.
Steavey Buckley
304 Posted 05/02/2019 at 19:47:59
Everton are really failing in the pressing game and closing players down.
Derek Taylor
305 Posted 05/02/2019 at 19:54:22
Steve, I know Silva is your hero but although he's been bragging how young his team is, he will continue to select it from the same 14 who have served us so badly to date. I know, in general, TWers can't tolerate the over 30s and are quick to write them off but, personally, since Peter Reid, I have never given it a thought.

We just want winners.

Mike Gaynes
306 Posted 05/02/2019 at 19:58:15
Rob #230 and Pat #235, no, no, no. There is nothing remotely resembling "corruption" in the NBA. Yes, star players do catch breaks from the officials as they do in all sports -- the strike zone is just a bit wider for the best baseball pitchers, and top boxers get some odd decisions -- but a preordained outcome like pro wrestling? Never. Couldn't happen.

What keeps it so honest? Oddly enough, sports betting and analytics. The former is a multi-billion-dollar industry in the US that today would be destroyed by even a whisper of fixing. And the latter leverages technologies that would make it virtually impossible to hide a "fix" involving players or referees. Odd patterns of errors would show up instantly. (The league owners themselves are something else altogether.)

Back on topic -- Steve #266, very thoughtful take and I think you're absolutely right.

Steve Ferns
307 Posted 05/02/2019 at 19:58:19
Nothing wrong with the over 30’s Derek. They just need to be as good as Gareth Barry and not past their best, which nearly all of our current crop of over 30’s are.

They also need to have the energy and stamina to run all game. Which James Milner does, and he’s over 30. Not one of our over 30’s can do that though.

Joe McMahon
308 Posted 05/02/2019 at 20:04:56
Steve @307, David Silva is also 33, the same age as Wayne Rooney.
Denis Richardson
309 Posted 05/02/2019 at 20:44:10
Derek, sorry but not having the old ‘Moyes would've won [somethimg] have he had money' mantra.

He had the biggest pot of gold at Man Utd and signed Fellaini! He was promptly sacked a few months later.

Also, whilst he didn't have hundreds of millions to spend on transfer fees, Everton still had a top 7/8 wage bill during his time. Which is a more accurate reflection of what budget he had to spend. I'll readily admit be brought in some decent players for low transfer fees but I certainly wouldn't have trusted him with a load of cash.

Krøldrup, Bilyaletdinov, Beattie ring any bells? I seem to remember he broke our transfer record 3 years on the trot from 2006 to 2009 and every time he did, the signing was questionable.

I am though grateful he took Fellaini off us for £24M – just shows how good he was with money!

Laurie Hartley
310 Posted 05/02/2019 at 20:56:46
Yes Steve # 285 - the mockers are coming out of the woodwork now. Made my blood boil that. I even had my ex boss messaging me the Times article about our situation from the Phillipines. He is a Man United fan.

The mockers would take great delight in rubbing our noses in it over the next five games.

I recall how the Leicester fans got right behind their team when they were threatened with relegation not so long ago with their “we are not going down” chant - despite the fact that at one stage it looked a certainty.

I hope our match going fans can find it in themselves to get behind the team and Marco Silva because despite my flippant remark above @ 22, I think our fans are the key to us getting out of this situation.

I called for Silva’s head after the Wolves game - I wish I hadn’t. I sincerely hope that I am completely wrong about him because the rest of the football world is rubbing their hands together at the prospect of us chucking him under the bus.

I am sure of Silva is doing his best and not just here for the money. Maybe those amongst us who have said the players are the ones who need geeing up are right and it is the manager who needs our support. If he is any good that will give him and the players a much needed lift.

There are 5 major battles coming up - time to close ranks and stand up to all of them. Everton and Evertonians must not be mocked.

Denver Daniels
311 Posted 05/02/2019 at 21:00:18
Yes, let's get Moyes back.

The serial loser who in 11 years in charge got us to one final. Whose sides routinely beat those below him but failed miserably when faced with stiffer opposition. Whose teams played great football some of the time but absolute rubbish most times. Who told us 7th was as good as it was going to get for plucky little Everton.

Everton 0 - 3 Wigan; FA Cup home quarter-final. David Mo a nutshell.

When the time came to stand up and be counted, he just wasn't up to the task.Why in the hell would you want someone back like that?

There's a word for that... it's called "settling".

Steve Ferns
312 Posted 05/02/2019 at 21:03:35
Can we also knock on the head the financial situation of the manager? Allardyce got £9M for 18 months (paid in full after 6). Silva is on a £9M contract over 36 months, £3M a year. Sure it's a lot of money, but he's on less than Koeman and Allardyce were per season.

I also believe Silva is here to forge a career. He can't do that with a failure. Where next, Portugal? UAE? USA? His career as a top-level manager would be over before it really began.

Neil Copeland
313 Posted 05/02/2019 at 21:07:35
Laurie #310, great post – inspiring even. You are not alone in feeling foolish, I was also calling for Marco's head and now feel that is a bit premature.

You are correct, he most definitely needs our support to stand any real chance of turning things around. It is pointless giving up on him so let's show our class by putting two fingers up to the rest of the football world and back him. You never know... it may just make a difference.

Rob Marsh
314 Posted 05/02/2019 at 21:08:02
Mike Gaynes #306,

I have to admit that my knowledge of the NBA is not gained through constant watching and interest in it, like I have for football. I'm happy to take your word that levels of corruption are not what they were.

There was one incident that was investigated by the FBI and definitely happened, during a game one of the big names made a play during a game that he dunked, this play had been outlawed in the off-season. A young inexperienced ref blew his whistle for the foul, the big time player his coach and the head ref ran upto this junior ref, the ref told the player you committed a foul, the player said: "Yes I did, but that rule only applies to others, not me!", the decision was then reversed by the senior ref.

This ref eventually went public with these kinds of decisions, it's a matter of public record now.

Dermot Byrne
315 Posted 05/02/2019 at 21:10:34
Derek #301:

"Sky running a poll on how many Evertonians hate RS more than they love Everton."

Interesting question regardless of corrupted poll or not.

I often think the venom gets in our way.

Billy Roberts
316 Posted 05/02/2019 at 21:12:56
Another word for that, Denver, is 'unsettling'.
Jason Wilkinson
317 Posted 05/02/2019 at 21:17:59
Ian Poulter once said he was as good as, if not better than Tiger Woods. Marco Silva could be a better coach/manager than Pep.

Like Poulter, there is very little evidence of the fact. One thing is certain though. The Silva, Brands and Moshiri plan must be given more than two-thirds of a season. I was at Goodison for that woeful game v Coventry under the management of Kendall Mk I.

As the cushions and season tickets rained down onto the pitch at full time we looked like a club in the wilderness. There are similarities with current performances and results.

We sacked Martinez, Koeman & Allardyce. Not because of bare results but more in keeping with Moshiri's vision of where they were leading us (nowhere fast) Martinez & Koeman both had satisfactory on their first end of term reports. Sam Allardyce had profit warning! the fans will walk away on his stint.

I get the feeling Moshiri will invest heavily in Brands & Silva and maybe just maybe with good fortune and some shrewd business Marco will go from zero to hero unlike Bobby M and Ginger Ron.

The players have been shite under the last four men tasked with bringing success on the pitch. Marco will get a "D" or "C–" at best for this season. Next season? The only way is upwards or out!

So glad we kept faith with Howard Kendall those many years ago.

Denver Daniels
318 Posted 05/02/2019 at 21:27:46
Yes, Billy, unsettling indeed. People seem to have short memories on here. Or maybe just selective ones.

What possible benefit would there be in bringing in someone whose greatest achievement was making Everton "competitive"?

Do we not actually want to win something? There is no upside. His body of work is there for all to see.

Tony Abrahams
319 Posted 05/02/2019 at 21:31:00
Love will always be stronger than hate and, as much as I hate Liverpool, I will always love Everton more!

Cheeky bastards whoever devised this poll, but you can bet your last penny, it will have something to do with some of the better red cunts who work for Sky TV.

Alls they had to do was ask Pinocchio, but I bet you he wants Everton to win tomorrow, which somehow makes them less bitter but, as we all know, a lot more fucking phoney.

Kieran Kinsella
320 Posted 05/02/2019 at 21:40:33
Mike @306,

Did you watch that series between Sacramento and Los Angeles Lakers in 2002? That is when I stopped watching the NBA. It was obviously a fix and years later the referee publicly admitted it.

Andy Crooks
321 Posted 05/02/2019 at 22:02:15
Steve Ferns, I was going to congratulate you on your post @ 266, I think. Then I have seen some top ones after. Your contribution to this thread has been top stuff.

A different point. A good friend and Irish Blue came in to my work today for a chat and a proper bitch about what is going wrong. He told me that he wanted a defeat tomorrow night and a heavy one. His first reason was to stop Liverpool winning the Premier League, the second was to get Silva gone.

I told him he was a shameless sack of shite who should never call himself a Blue again. He said he was a better blue than me and it was supporters like me who swallowed mediocrity who should be ashamed. Who is right?

Chris Hockenhull
322 Posted 05/02/2019 at 22:05:30
Andy... You are. Fuck them!

We are Evertonians... We support our team to win.

Billy Roberts
323 Posted 05/02/2019 at 22:13:19
I wouldn't worry too much, Denver, about the club reappointing Moyes, that really would be too retrograde and desperate. We have plenty to worry about at Everton but that I'm certain is not going to happen.

As for tomorrow night's game, I predict a hard fought-out draw or a plucky defeat. I can't see a win, whether we want one or not.

Rob Marsh
324 Posted 05/02/2019 at 22:16:55
Andy Crooks #321

If you take Nil Satis Nisi Optimum seriously you're both right and different sides of the same coin.

One of you is prepared to wait that bit longer for NSNO, the other isn't.

Billy Roberts
325 Posted 05/02/2019 at 22:21:45
I think the problem we have had for a while now is that Liverpool give us plenty of things to hate about them while Everton give us fuck all to love, it does start to warp your judgement.
Frank Wolfe
326 Posted 05/02/2019 at 22:23:25
Laurie (310) – 100% agree.

I don't think that chucking out yet another manager and hitting ctrl-alt-del again is going to work. Need to get behind the team & manager.

Rob Marsh
327 Posted 05/02/2019 at 22:43:25
Just had a look at the prem table, if Cardiff win their next two games we'll only be 5 pts away from death zone.

They have the Hammers and Brighton next, they should go into these thinking they can win them, which is something we can't say.

If Cardiff take 6pts from that lot, the solids will well and truly hit the fan!

I'm feeling unusually optimistic tonight.

Eddie Dunn
328 Posted 05/02/2019 at 22:43:52
Whatever the result ToffeeWeb will be overflowing with comment tomorrow night. Please may it be in celebration of an Everton win.
Steve Ferns
329 Posted 05/02/2019 at 22:50:51
Andy, "We don't care what the Redshite say, what the fuck do we care?"

It's not we care about the redshite say, so let's hope we lose to ruin their season. It's a load of crap. I will never accept any argument that a good Evertonian hates Liverpool. If you really hate the Red Shite that much, then I feel sorry for you. Something obviously happened to make you that bitter and twisted.

We all remember that horrible game in May 2005. I remember watching that one in town. I was with a couple of Red mates, and I saw some other blues in there. Everyone knew I was blue, not because I was celebrating the Milan goals, but because the other blues (acquaintances and work colleagues) who were kept coming up to me. It was a really horrible atmosphere by half time, and I decided that game was over, and I best go home before I end up getting my head kicked in. I was then shocked to see what happened next.

No, not the comeback. I was called by one of these "better" blues to come out into town for the "party". One of these better blues who cheered every AC Milan goal, and will no doubt be cheering City on tomorrow, he was now swinging off a lamppost on Bold Street singing "that horrible song" and draped in a Liverpool Scarf.

I saw a load of these blues that night doing similar things. Sure it was probably the ale, and getting carried away on the emotions and wanting to be part of one of those special nights people my age have never seen, well maybe I did as I was at the Munich game, but as a 6 year old, my memory is limited and I went home straight after the game, I had school the next day.

You'll never see me wanting Everton to lose. I am not bitter towards the Reds, but unlike those self-proclaimed "better" Evertonians, you'll never see me draped in a kopite scarf singing "the song that shall not be named" on Bold Street. And if any of you guys read this site, I still have the photos to prove it.

Paul Smith
330 Posted 05/02/2019 at 23:19:01
Got the shit kicked out of me daily for being a blue. Bitter, me ? Too fuckin right!
Bobby Thomas
331 Posted 05/02/2019 at 00:03:36
Despite the initial and genuine improvement, over the last two months the performances have become increasingly ragged. The side is currently not tactically or mentally in any condition to win football matches. However I still believe there is a strong case to stick by a manager and stop that bunch of shitehawkes in the dressing room wagging the dog any longer.

However, if the wheels totally come off and we can't get a win and Silva has to go as it just needs ending - and based on the deteriorating form, performances & upcoming fixtures that's a possibility - then Billy @ #323 I guarantee you Kenwright will be pushing for the return of the Moyesiah, temporarily or otherwise.

Jay Harris
332 Posted 05/02/2019 at 04:38:35
I always want us to win and have done for 60 odd years but as for Marco Silva any comparison with Kendall is purely convenient.

The better comparison is Martinez and we have never recovered from all the good he dismantled at the club.

Marco's record is nothing short of shambolic. You can defend him all you like with what he inherited and we are in transition but I see absolute zero improvement week on week despite him being allowed to bring 6 players of his choosing in.

Billy Roberts
333 Posted 06/02/2019 at 06:40:33
If Moshiri is still listening to Kenwright rather than Brands Bobby then we really are in trouble.
Speaking of the old drama Queen, he's been very quiet lately hasn't he? What is his job at Everton again?

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