Everton to look into alleged Pickford fight

Monday, 1 April, 2019 161comments  |  Jump to last
Everton say they are aware of an incident that occurred in Sunderland last night that appears to have involved Jordan Pickford.

The goalkeeper is thought to have been in the "Ps and Qs" bar where he was goaded by Newcastle United fans.

One video from the bar posted to Instagram show Pickford giving one fan the middle finger before posing for pictures with another patron while another clip taken later outside of the bar seems to show the 25-year-old involved in a scuffle before being restrained and pulled away by a group of men.

An Everton spokesman told the Liverpool Echo that, "the Club has been made aware of an alleged incident involving one of our players and we are looking into the matter."

A Northumbria Police spokesperson was quoted by the Sunderland Echo as saying: "At 12:19am today, police received a report of a disturbance involving a large group of individuals on Tunstall Road, Sunderland.

"Enquiries are ongoing to determine the circumstances surrounding the incident and locate those involved."


Reader Comments (161)

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Gerry Quinn
1 Posted 01/04/2019 at 20:00:27
Rob Marsh
2 Posted 01/04/2019 at 20:14:01

No one was fatally injured, a very minor scuffle and both parties went away and sobered up.

This kind of thing has been going on forever outside pubs, haven't the police got anything better to do? They should go and arrest some peadophiles or heroin dealers.

Kase Chow
3 Posted 01/04/2019 at 20:24:21
C’mon Jordan, you must know you can’t go out clubbing son

It’s one of the sacrifices you make for getting £60K+ a week.

Now grow up a bit pls

Stephen Brown
4 Posted 01/04/2019 at 20:26:00
Got a lot to thank his mates for there! They realised what was happening and pulled him away!
Michael Lynch
5 Posted 01/04/2019 at 20:28:12
Not a good look really is it? Pissed outside a night club doing the old "hold me back hold me back" bollocks. Someone needs to have a strong word with that lad. It's not like the old days, with Psycho and the rest getting off their cakes in nightclubs every night, these days the players train like athletes and earn like bankers. Go play in the Sunday league if you're going to act like a twat.
Kieran jones
6 Posted 01/04/2019 at 20:33:01
Or people who cant spell Rob Marsh!
Peter Warren
7 Posted 01/04/2019 at 20:44:13
Issue that bothers me is stupidity. If you’re an Everton player don’t go to a nightclub. Don’t go to a bar. Don’t go to bongos bingo.

If anybody gives you stick turn the other cheek, if you struggle with that walk away. Giving someone finger for calling him butter fingers, is he 5 years old? Get over it and grow up.

James Marshall
8 Posted 01/04/2019 at 20:48:09
Don't be ridiculous - you can't stop players going out and having a beer, they're young men. Young men with money as well so of course they're going to go out and have a bevvie like everyone else.

Saying they should stay at home is nonsense.

I've seen the video and people were clearly winding him up, calling him butterfingers and mouthing off giving him shit and he stood up for himself.

It might not be PC in the modern game, and maybe never was but you can't just blame Pickford for a load of mouthy dickheads giving him shit in a bar.

Joey Crawley
9 Posted 01/04/2019 at 20:48:52
Howaaay Jordan man, you canny go Pickfordin naah fights outasidey thee nightclubs like at youuuur age ya naah like. Tooo many alcopops like and your doin a merry dance with some smaaag like lad from down byker way like. I dinny think think he looks to Pickford fights like but he’s a safe pair of hands so top of the pops to you lad!
Tony Abrahams
10 Posted 01/04/2019 at 20:49:22
“That’s Life”
Benjamin Dyke
11 Posted 01/04/2019 at 20:58:34
As long as he channels that aggression in to not repeating the mistakes that have led to him being top of the mistakes that lead to goals chart (9) then he'll be alright. Otherwise he's just a daft, overpaid plonker in the making.
Joe McMahon
12 Posted 01/04/2019 at 21:00:31
Not really a fight, but he needs to learn to ignore them and walk away, he's high profile and privileged.
Mike Gaynes
13 Posted 01/04/2019 at 21:02:13
Sorry, James #8, but he's not "everyone else." People winding him up is no excuse, because that's what people are going to do if they're drunk and you're a rich and famous footballer. If you're not grown up enough to avoid those situations, you're not grown up enough to "go out and have a bevvie like everyone else."
James Marshall
14 Posted 01/04/2019 at 21:07:32
You're welcome to your opinion, Mike. I'll graciously continue to disagree with you on it though.

I made a lot of mistakes as a younger man, and did things I wouldn't dream of doing nowadays. You can say he isn't being a grown up, but that's because he isn't a grown up, he's a young man being provoked in a pub after a few beers.

You're right it's not an excuse, but shit like this happens now and always did, he hasn't killed anyone, and it was a little scuffle if anything. I think people these days are all too keen and all too quick to get stuck into people in the public eye.

Jay Wood

15 Posted 01/04/2019 at 21:11:38

As for those advocating high profile footballers should lead the life of monastic monks, why?

Some trigger happy judgements being passed on here on two incidents that don't amount to more than 20 seconds and to which nobody knows the full details.

The first inside the night club shows him relaxed, happy to pose for photos, being heckled by one mouthy prat (who may even be the person filming the scene in the first place, looking for a reaction).

The second - unless you've led very sheltered lives - is something that happens outside drinking establishments every night of the week.

Does anyone commentating so far know the details? How much provocation Jordan received? For how long? The nature of the provocation? If Jordan was bevvied?

Some are so quick to judge and condemn, based on nothing but their own prejudices and flakey moral indignation.

Jim Bennings
16 Posted 01/04/2019 at 21:12:14
The thing that concerns me with Pickford is he needs to start remembering he is an Everton player not a Sunderland fan, at least not until he’s ended his career when he can then go about doing as he pleases.

It’s not a good reputation the fella is bringing himself, he’s just become a father and yet he’s involved in some pissed up fracas in Sunderland, Jordan you are not a Sunderland fan whilst you pull on the Everton shirt right mate, you are an Everton fan and you commit fully to Everton FC.

Silva needs to quickly pull this shit into line, too many daft incidents like this and it derails our momentum.

It’s not about leading a sheltered life, it’s about acting as a role model and a professional and Pickford dicking about like he has done too many times already this season is a pain in the arse that we don’t need.

John Pierce
17 Posted 01/04/2019 at 21:17:50
If you put yourself in a situation that gives even the slightest opportunity for this to happen then you’ve set yourself up for failure.

In light of what happened at Newcastle and what are, now fairly hollow words from him following it, this seems even poorer judgement on his part.

Brian Williams
18 Posted 01/04/2019 at 21:19:35
You don't tend to see premier league footballers in the types of bars/pubs where this sort of thing happens. They "tend" to frequent up market, selective and somewhat exclusive places to avoid such occurrences.

When they do mix with the "man on the street" there's always a chance that this sort of thing can happen. (Ask Ross Barkley.) Yeh they can go wherever they like but if they go to places where "lads" go to get bevvied then they leave themselves open.

He should have more sense and be more selective because that's what is required and expected from a highly paid international football star! Thing is, the ability to play footy at the highest level doesn't guarantee having the highest level of common fucking sense.

He's done nothing "wrong" as such but, in his shoes, you have to pick where you go and who you mix with carefully.

Why? Because that's the world today, unfortunately.

Stephen Davies
19 Posted 01/04/2019 at 21:21:01
Type or paste your comment here. PLEASE capitalise initial letters of proper names and use proper grammar. No txt-speak; all-lowercase posts are likely to be deleted
Geoff Lambert
20 Posted 01/04/2019 at 21:23:27
With James and Jay on this one, He is a footballer not a member of the fucking royal family, If he wants to go out with his mates for a few drinks why not? To many snowflakes about these days.
Andy Crooks
21 Posted 01/04/2019 at 21:28:16
Man in his twenties with a few quid goes out with his mates, has a few drinks and gets in a row. What is the world coming to?

When I was Jordan's age, I would have been at home playing Scrabble with my parents on our return from church.

Justin Doone
22 Posted 01/04/2019 at 21:31:10
It could have happened anywhere but he can't react in a physical manor just because of a few stupid comments from people.

He doesn't seem to have learnt after his messing around at the Newcastle game which may have contributed to his poor display and us throwing away a 2-0 lead.

I suggested then and still do that he needs to grow up and be more mature and professional in the way he conducts himself.

I don't think this is such a big deal but it's another negative story highlighting his mental weakness. Can you imagine the Newcastle fans next season!

If being dropped for a few games this season teaches him a lesson that may benefit him for the future then I welcome it whilst at the same time affording Stek a few farewell games.

Jim Bennings
23 Posted 01/04/2019 at 21:35:59
He’s not the average man in his 20’s though thats just it.

He’s paid a kings ransom (like every Premier League player nowadays) and that kings ransom is paid by Everton Football Club and Pickford has an obligation to this club, not getting pissed in public watching Sunderland.

It’s about how you conduct yourself, would Nigel Martyn or Neville Southall be seen doing this?

And it’s accumulating with Pickfords madcap behaviour that makes it more prominent, had it been a one-off you could let it pass but he needs to really start waking up and smelling the coffee.

Brian Williams
24 Posted 01/04/2019 at 21:36:52
The Daily Star (spits) are referring to it was a wild street fight ffs!

Obviously never been in Birkenhead town centre late on a Friday night!

Stephen Davies
25 Posted 01/04/2019 at 21:41:49
Geoff & Jay
No one is advocating that he live like a hermit.
This is bad judgement...Sunderland drinking centre is only small, word will be round that hes out..there will be some around who will want to wind him up..this incident ( and the Newcastle game) shows he can easily be wound up...hes now an instant target should he go out again. . What if his punches had connected? and what if it had been more serious? ( assaulting someone..which this is..for being wound up maybe mitigation but its no excuse)
Hes now left himself open to any idiot..( the vids will now be viral).they don't have to do anything but provoke...you cant guarantee it wont happen again in the same circumstances...in fact I will wager it likely will...but the outcome may not be the same. And believe me the Old Bill & the CPS will just love that..( in fact the vid of him swinging punches may well be used as an example of previous behaviour now its in the public domain) .
If you want to go for a drink chose carefully where you go and chose your company wisely.

Andy Crooks
26 Posted 01/04/2019 at 21:46:54
Brian W, Spot on. I have never been to Birkenhead but I like the sound of it!

By the way, Brian, hope you are up for a beer on Easter Sunday?

Brian Williams
27 Posted 01/04/2019 at 21:49:23
Andy. Yes indeed mate. I'll be there ........wherever "there" turns out to be. 😁

After church of course!

Btw, lads and lasses, you do know this story is an April Fool one, don't you?

Jerome Shields
28 Posted 01/04/2019 at 21:54:38
His agent should make sure that their are people there to manage the situation, should anything happen. Pickford retaliating with gestures and sorting things out on the pavement isn't great.

As my late mother would have said ‘What were you doing there in the first place?‘

John Pierce
29 Posted 01/04/2019 at 21:56:42
The lads hands are his assets, why would you ever risk them?
Justin Doone
30 Posted 01/04/2019 at 21:57:18
On the drinking front if I was a professional athlete I wouldn't drink. Maybe in the off season or if I won a trophy but other than that no chance. I know not everyone is a disciplined as that and that's there choice, it doesn't mean it's a good choice.

As a goalkeeper he may not need to be as athletic in some areas as others but if he were to through a punch or get hurt defending himself the chances of injury to his hands is high and like many other people are his trade tools which could be very costly.

Also I get it he's young, but he's not a kid. He knows right from wrong, good decisions from bad. If he wants to smoke, drink, do drugs its his choice. But as an Everton player I don't want our players doing such stupid things. We know it goes on and there are many recent examples of ex-Everton players being foolish.

I can't stop them, I just don't want them being disrespectful to the club. We need a new keeper, the Q is are we looking for a number one or two?

Jim Bennings
31 Posted 01/04/2019 at 22:00:55
John 29

That’s a very valid point about a goalkeepers hands being his main asset.

What if Pickford had took a swing and cracked his knuckles or broken a finger, or even fell awkwardly (he was pissed after all) and broke his wrist ect ect?

That would rule him out of the remainder of the season and all because of a piss up.

Personally I’d rather leave that kind of behaviour to the likes of Slippy G or Rooney when he was a liability with his off-field antics.

Rob Halligan
32 Posted 01/04/2019 at 22:03:57
Everyone seems to think that Pickford was pissed. Looking at the drink he's holding, it looks to me like a blackcurrant and soda or lemonade. Of course, we don't know what he's had prior, but don't be assuming that he's pissed.
Jamie Crowley
33 Posted 01/04/2019 at 22:08:40
Some of the comments are pure gold.

Andy Crooks and Joey Crawley (you're spellin' your name wrong son!) take a bow.

Scrabble after Church. Too funny.

Two things in my mind are certain.

1. Jordan shouldn't have been out that late, and if he is he simply can't react to any cat-calling.

2. Jordan should not be allowed anywhere near Newcastle! He can't keep his head with the Barcodes fans!

Love the boy, gets way too much shit on TW, but he does need to exercise better judgement.

He's a boy FFS. Who amongst us wasn't doing the same damn thing at that age? I think he should get a slap on the wrist, a stern talking to, and leave it at that.

I have an inexplicable longing for younger years all of a sudden.

Jamie Crowley
34 Posted 01/04/2019 at 22:11:07
I just read Brian Williams @24 -

Is this actually and April Fool's thing?

I hate April Fools. Immature and childish. Bah Humbug.

Brian Williams
35 Posted 01/04/2019 at 22:14:53
Jamie #34.

Sorry, mate, it's not........ just me being a knob, lol!

Rob Halligan
36 Posted 01/04/2019 at 22:16:51
Anyway, could have been worse, could have been one of ours picking up prozzies and driving her car home for a quickie oh shit it was.

Or maybe it could have been one of ours taking a smack in some club in Slater street, accused of knocking off some lads girlfriend.

Oh shit, that was one of ours as well. 😥😥

Stan Schofield
37 Posted 01/04/2019 at 22:21:32
Big deal, he was in a bit of a fight with a few other blokes, but nobody was injured.

At least he wasn't a gobshite and didn't gob on a teenage girl.

The world of 'journalism' really is shite.

Don Alexander
38 Posted 01/04/2019 at 22:23:21
Cripes chaps, the word "butterfingers" was used! What's a young man to do when confronted with that level of degradation when he's nowhere near Paris or a terminal tango?!!

Neil Lawson
39 Posted 01/04/2019 at 22:32:04
Threw a couple of punches...... .but missed. Went to catch a couple of crosses .......... but missed. Yes, his hands are crucial ..........just needs to learn how and when to use them appropriately and effectively.
Kieran Kinsella
40 Posted 01/04/2019 at 22:39:55
People know they can bait him as seen in the Newcastle game. So you get some chancer mouthing off hoping he gets a reaction so it will be all over the tabloids. Since JP cannot seem to control himself when mocked, he probably should be home playing scrabble. I know when I was in Uni we would sometimes see the likes of Giggsy at the Hacienda in Manchester and someone (usually a student) would always mouth off but he would just shrug it off or take his posse and go some place else.
Jerome Shields
41 Posted 01/04/2019 at 22:44:41
Just seen the video of the instance. Doesn't look great. Pickford looks a bit of a header.

He looks to have initiated the physical altercation, no matter how he was provoked. The perpetrators got the reaction they wanted.

Lucky there where people to get him away, it could have ended far worse. The venue did provide adequate people to manage, but they ended up managing Pickford.

Everton are in a awkward situation. They will have to take action. Southgate won't be happy either.

Kieran Kinsella
42 Posted 01/04/2019 at 22:51:12
Another thing I noticed:

The Daily Mirror "Jordan Pickford involved in "pub fight"

The Sun "Jordan Pickford involved in vicious pub brawl after booze binge."

The former, with the quotation marks implies the incident is alleged and offers no comment on his prior actions or the intensity of the fight. The latter states that he was drunk after a "binge" and that not only was there definitely a fight, but it was "vicious." Just compare with this other Sun headline "Dele Alli filmed berating staff" The use of berating implies he was scolding them and in the absence of other info you get the inference he was entitled to do so. My point being, here as ever we have The Sun showing their anti-northern bias by spinning two minor incidents

Stephen Davies
43 Posted 01/04/2019 at 22:56:47
Kieran #42
What it shows is that if you are a 'high profile' figure and you allow yourself to be put in these sutuations then you are at the total mercy of this kind of reporting ( with no say in the matter whatsoever)...no one said life was fair.
Mike Gaynes
44 Posted 01/04/2019 at 23:17:30
James #14, you're right of course, but he's not some dumb kid, he's 25 and expected to behave as a responsible professional in whom a great deal of time and trouble has been invested, and on whom a great deal depends. I've thrown more than a few punches in my life, but the world wasn't watching and I wasn't endangering my employer's success by busting my hand.

Brian #18, spot on. As usual. Hope you and Andy and the rest of the gang have a great time on Sunday. I'll be wishin' I was wi' yer.

Jamie #34, hate to break it to you, but these ARE your younger years.

Rob #36, ya broke me up. As usual. Perfect post.

John #29, given the way he punches, his hands were in no danger.

Stephen #43, right on. The press are going to exaggerate the incident. The sun is going to rise in the east. That's the way things are. If you're world famous and you don't want the press to write shite about your pub scrap, don't get into a pub scrap.

Michael Lynch
45 Posted 01/04/2019 at 23:23:53
I love the folks on here saying "when I were a lad I had a few scrapes, give him a break". Yeah right, cos at his age you were an internationally acclaimed athlete earning millions of quid a year, saving penalties in the world cup. It doesn't matter if billy the binman goes out on a Saturday and gets in a ruck, nobody cares. But he's got a gold-plated career that most would kill for. He's got a huge talent and he's worked his balls off to get where he is. He needs to use his fucking loaf. Sure, he can do what the fuck he likes, but only a massive bellend would be out on the town in Newcastle in his position.

Like Stephen @43 says - no one said life was fair. Absolutely, it's not fair that he can't go out on the town like the rest of us at his age, but it's also not fair that he's earning more than a dozen brain surgeons for catching a leather balloon.

Steve Carse
46 Posted 01/04/2019 at 23:43:01
Pickford is a working class boy who's made good. He has clearly retained an edge to his character, shaped partly no doubt by his upbringing in a tough environment and also by his footballing allegiance. I can only presume that those who are castigating the lad are not the same fans who bemoan the absence of characters in the modern game?
John Pierce
47 Posted 01/04/2019 at 23:47:37
Mike, I’d prefer him to catch the lad’s head, drop to his knees and smother him. But keepers these days, can’t catch a cold.

Some work to do there at FF.

Paul McGinty
48 Posted 01/04/2019 at 00:00:41
No competition for his place so teflon.
Hooefully Everton have some form of clause in the player contracts covering this type of stuff. Really unprofessional in my opinion .
Don Alexander
49 Posted 01/04/2019 at 00:05:52
Jordan is a very young 'keeper. To put that into some sort of context Nev, and that's "our" Nev, the greatest 'keeper I've ever seen, was older than Jordan before he even began to win trophies with us. He played for more than a decade after that, with huge distinction. He's rightly a legend, but would that have been the case had he, a 25 year-old former binman, been subjected to the 24/7 close scrutiny of today's world?
Eddie Dunn
50 Posted 02/04/2019 at 00:32:28
Neil- lovely stuff mate!
Dan Parker
51 Posted 02/04/2019 at 01:30:48
He’s a young lad, I see the press is already jumping on the trial by social media bandwagon
Steve Ferns
52 Posted 02/04/2019 at 02:24:18
As I mentioned elsewhere, we don’t know what happened. So I’d agree with Jay Wood. I’d also say Mike Gaynes has a point, Pickford is on too much money to just say boys will be boys. He shouldn’t live like a monk, but on over £6m a year, he should make sacrifices. That’s what the wage is for. He has plenty of time to be a boy after he hangs up his gloves.

All that said, stern word for the lad and a warning that he’s almost crossed a line and needs to make some changes. No need to go any further than that.

Ian Linn
53 Posted 02/04/2019 at 02:49:59
It could have been a whole lot worse, there is potential here for a lesson learned and a change in behavior, call it good, move on.
Kristian Boyce
54 Posted 02/04/2019 at 03:07:21
From the reports I’ve read was that it went from friendly banter between him and a few Newcastle fans, to then some pretty disgusting abuse of his missus.

He did what probably most of us would have done if we were in that situation. It doesn’t matter if you earn £6m a year or £20k, if you and your loved ones are verbally abused, you are going to stand up for yourself.

I find it amusing that some people are criticizing him going out and being in a pub, something what ‘regular’ people do. But then on the other hand, players get criticized for being out of touch with the fans due to the huge wealth that they have and some of the extravagant lifestyles they live.

Nicholas Ryan
55 Posted 02/04/2019 at 03:09:52
Several posters are saying: 'he shouldn't be out in Newcastle' …. he wasn't. The police announcement says ' a disturbance on Tunstall Road, Sunderland...'. But, never let the facts get in the way of a good rant.
Paul Columb
56 Posted 02/04/2019 at 04:03:07
Much ado about nothing for me. If everyone didn’t have a movie camera in their pocket and the ability to broadcast sweet nothings to the bored masses within seconds, it’s likely this would have floated under the radar. Club will fine him for being a muppet and done deal.
Tony Rice
57 Posted 02/04/2019 at 04:05:38
By the looks of the video .His punching off the field needs as much work as his on field punches
Mark Andersson
58 Posted 02/04/2019 at 04:16:04
laugh of the day was a leather balloon...

Typical English player shows no professionalism for his club or country..

At 25 I was married with 2 kids playing in the toughest pubs in Liverpool been heckled every time I went on stage... not once did I get into a fight coz I was mature enough to walk away...

Pickford should apologize to his bosses for bringing bad publicity to our club

Jay Harris
59 Posted 02/04/2019 at 05:12:41
It is also alleged that Pickford was with Rooney the night he picked up miss "tattletail".

It is also being reported that JP only became incensed when whoever the pricks were aimed abuse at his missus who was there with him and some friends.

My first point is we don't know the facts and this is already trial by media. The lad may have just been doing some socialising and was baited by some geordie pricks.

However I do have some concerns about Pickfords lifestyle choices and it may go some way to explaining his erratic and unforced errors when under pressure in certain games.

The game is no longer "Lets have a few beers after the game". it is now a game for the serious athlete who knows he has to stay in peak condition and you cannot maintain full fitness and concentration consistently if you don't.

Peter Warren
60 Posted 02/04/2019 at 06:47:05
Can’t believe people sticking up for Pickford. Don’t know facts etc. Not saying he started the fight just that he’s stupid and put himself in problematic position. If he had bust his hand and was out injured would people be so understanding that’ he’s only 25?

Let’s give an example, Ross Barkley was out in Birkenhead, someone shouted butter feet and he gave someone finger and then got involved in fracas. I would imagine everybody would say stupid prick. I don’t see difference here.

Speaking about Ross Barkley, since Bongos Bingo incident and moving to Chelsea, he’s gone up a level and was excellent against us at Goodison and simply clapped the ground when subbed - that’s the way to deal with getting stick.

David Midgley
61 Posted 02/04/2019 at 06:53:39
Kieran #42 .

The Sun, are bound to big it up after the total eclipse o f the Sun on Merseyside .
Anthony A Hughes
62 Posted 02/04/2019 at 07:19:24
In this day and age he's lucky one if the dickheads didn't stick a knife in him. Be more selective with your social life Jordan, you're a married man with a family. If anything think of them before everything else.
Gerry Quinn
63 Posted 02/04/2019 at 07:42:12
Anthony, 62, SPOT ON, lad
Martin Berry
64 Posted 02/04/2019 at 08:51:16
When are footballers ever going to learn ?
When your in the public eye and especially in a sport were there is rivalry your asking for trouble in a place like this.
It could be that he is without blame but thats not the issue
By all means have your release but be careful where you do it, a bar packed full of young men with booze inside them is not the place.
You have to shake your head and wonder.
Ray Roche
65 Posted 02/04/2019 at 08:58:09
And the shithouse BBC are even mentioning it on the morning news. “Everton are investigating etc.”
What a dickhead.
David Graves
66 Posted 02/04/2019 at 09:01:07
Just watched the video and it's obvious that he is not too short to be an international pub brawler.
Gary Edwards
67 Posted 02/04/2019 at 09:06:01
If we get a decent offer for him . sell him. He's not THAT good, certainly not as good as he seems to think he is and if selling him would allow us to buy a decent replacement (a proper professional with a mature. stable personality) with a few bob to spare IMO it's a no brainer.
Derek Knox
68 Posted 02/04/2019 at 09:39:09
Several observations, if he was only drinking soft drinks, they must be a lot stronger in that area, than they are anywhere else.

He should be a lot less susceptible to being wound up, at his age, and must get it most weeks from opposition fans, so should ignore, rather than rise to the challenge from intoxicated barcodes.

In the Blue corner, weighing in at...…………….. !

Where was VAR when you need it?

Lee Brownlie
69 Posted 02/04/2019 at 09:49:09
This was a scene out of 'The Likely Lads' wasnt it??.. A couple of gobshite - 'well ard' haha - Newcastle fans giving it 'Bu'ahh fingaz!!' ffs.
Russell Smith
70 Posted 02/04/2019 at 10:09:49
The only blip in our run of games since the 17day break was against Newcastle when Pickford got baited by the crowd and started reacting to it at every opportunity. With this incident now furthering the perception that he is easy to wind up just imagine the stick he will take at every away ground we visit. As this report appears to suggest he was rising to insults thrown at his missus expect every other team to be calling her out at every game. If he has the same "hulk" reaction to this baiting we can expect a few more error prone performances.
John McFarlane Snr
71 Posted 02/04/2019 at 10:09:50
Hi Derek [68], if, as reported, the incident took place in Sunderland, it's more likely to have been disgruntled Sunderland fans, who may regard him as a traitor, as so many Evertonians did with Wayne Rooney and Ross Barkley.
Danny Broderick
72 Posted 02/04/2019 at 10:24:53
A lot of holier than thou people on here. What exactly has he done wrong? Got into a row and been pulled away by his mates. It’s hardly the crime of the century. Or is it because he was having drinks a week before our next game?

We are all too quick to berate footballers for the money they earn, the fact that they are out of touch with the working man etc. We can’t then have a go when one of them is acting like a normal lad, going back home for mother’s day and then having a few drinks in the evening with his mates.

P.S. How did newspapers fill their columns before camera phones were invented?

Lee Brownlie
73 Posted 02/04/2019 at 10:36:47
Gary (#67): 'He's not that good'

BS.. Saved us plenty of points, helped England 'big time' to the WC semis.

Sorry to spoil such subjective - and, as ALWAYS, totally needless - snidery with facts, but there you go.

Yes, he needs to 'grow up a bit'.. me an'all when I was 25.. not you I take it, though, no?.. but I really don't get where such out and out SNIDE comments about our own players, especially the - simply and verifiably - better ones, are supposed to get us.. not at all.

Bill Watson
74 Posted 02/04/2019 at 11:32:05
What a non story and what sanctimonious drivel by some on this thread.

Pickford showed an error of judgement by going out for a drink where he was likely to get baited, he rose to it and someone filmed it.
It was handbags all round, nobody was injured and the police aren't taking action.

He should be fined for bringing the club into disrepute and told to grow up. End of!

Sell him? Ok, so who would you bring in?

James Hughes
75 Posted 02/04/2019 at 11:45:50
Allegedly one of the insults thrown at JP was he was called butterfingers. wow brutal stuff !!

He tried to defend himself and fight his corner, but he's not very good at defending from corners.

James Lauwervine
76 Posted 02/04/2019 at 12:25:08
The usual judgmental stuff here from the Jump To Conclusions gang, thankfully interspersed with the odd rational comment. Cheap unamusing digs at our players are nothing new on TW threads and remain completely tedious. Pickford may need to grow up a bit but so do many on here.
Brian Harrison
77 Posted 02/04/2019 at 12:50:18
He must know being a local Sunderland lad that this pub would also have Newcastle fans there as well. Now its only 2 weeks ago he was taunting the Newcastle fans during our game with them. So the chances are that you will always come across someone who would take umbrage and look to cause trouble.

Never see young boxers or athletes in pubs drinking, but seems to be something that is accepted for footballers to drink. You only have to read the auto biographies of ex players were they talk about drinking cultures at their clubs. Although its mainly British players not other nationalities who join this drinking culture.

Daniel A Johnson
78 Posted 02/04/2019 at 13:02:28
Pickfords a working class lad, Sunderland Fan and still has mates/family in the area, so fair play if he wants to watch Sunderland at Wembley with his mates in a pub over a few jars. In some ways its a a good sign of his character that hes not forgotten his local roots.

Yeah hes a target in that environment, but for me thats more to do with the inbred Geordies who baited him in the first place.

Paul Birmingham
79 Posted 02/04/2019 at 13:02:54
I was no Saint, in younger days, but as you grow up you learn to spot the signs and get wise.

Such is life these days and for high profile athletes it’s the chance that such actions could always happen. But he plays for EFC, and by association, his and the clubs reputation can, will be tarnished.

The media circus always are ready to milk these situations. Hopefully MS, will read Harry Cattericks, judgement book, and lessons will be learned.

Times have changed, and it’s very sad that people can’t go out for a social drink, with out the chance of confrontation.

JP is entitled to socialise but also perhaps after this scuffle, he will realise what’s priority, and there’s the establishments to go with lower risk, but in this day and age, they’ll always be some AH, who’ll go for confrontation, where ever you are, as a top athlete.

I hope this incident won’t impact his on field performances for the first team.

Stephen Davies
80 Posted 02/04/2019 at 13:05:51
Danny #72
'What exactly has he done wrong'?
Nothing really..just committing an Assault Sec 5 Public Order . Breach of the Peace.Possibly D&D but lets not split hairs.
Craig Walker
81 Posted 02/04/2019 at 13:10:03
I agree with everything Jim Bennings has said already. The guy acts like a Sunderland fan too often for me. He helped in the capitulation at St James' Park because the home fans got to him. The problem I have with Pickford is that he's nowhere near as good as he thinks he is. He needs bringing back down to Earth a bit. I've still not forgiven him for that howler in December.
Joe McMahon
82 Posted 02/04/2019 at 13:15:15
Daniel, using the inbred slur is a bit harsh, there are many areas Inc the not so posh areas of Liverpool where the family tree goes round in a circle.
Daniel A Johnson
83 Posted 02/04/2019 at 13:16:56
Acting like a Sunderland Fan? Well he is a fan, a boyhood die hard fan. I don't have a problem with that.

If I was good enough to be a footballer and got signed by a team like Derby County say, you could bet 100% I would still be cheering on EFC on the TV or any other time for that matter.

I'm sure there are other players who support tams they don't play for.

Tony J Williams
84 Posted 02/04/2019 at 13:53:22
He without sin cast the first stone and all that shite

Non-issue if it hadn't been for the usual gawkers filming it on their phones.

Move on to our next game...

Paul Kelly
85 Posted 02/04/2019 at 14:08:54
Should of drawn a six yard box around him, he'd of got near no-one.
James Lauwervine
86 Posted 02/04/2019 at 14:35:20
Stephen 80, are you serious? D&D? Presumably quoting section 5 means you've read it, but I suspect not. How ridiculously officious you sound.
Paul 85, not only is your post yet another tiresome unfunny dig but it is 'should HAVE' and 'he'd HAVE'. And whilst I'm at it, it's 'no one' and 'six-yard box'.
Craig 81, I've never seen anything Jim Bennings has ever posted that I've agreed with, but each to their own.
It feels to me that some people on here are just waiting for any chance to criticise, condemn and judge.
Dale Rose
87 Posted 02/04/2019 at 14:36:37
At the risk of being racist and judgemental I would think that your average barcoder would have to Google butter fingers.
Neil Copeland
88 Posted 02/04/2019 at 14:37:10
Thankfully Marco Silva has the defence drilled in zonal marking. Man to man marking skills may have resulted in a much uglier outcome.
Jim Harrison
89 Posted 02/04/2019 at 14:41:04
Have to say, when Barkley went out. Nd got in a bit of trouble I thought, why go out where you know you may get hassle? Same goes for Pickford.

You know the score, it must be a bit shitty to not be able to just go out with your mates, but pretty sure the other side of being a pro football player makes up for it!!

Hopefully nothing will come of it. He is just a young guy out and about. If he was a brickie or a plumber (honersble teades, no disrespect) no one would give a toss. He isn’t, so there will be a lot of focus on him

David Connor
90 Posted 02/04/2019 at 14:53:23
Having seen the video footage, the club has to take action against him as he has seriously brought the clubs good name into question. Footballers these days are role models for youngsters today more than ever and need to live their life accordingly.

Having said that, he is only a young working-class lad and he has put himself in a very risky situation. He needs to be dragged into Silva's office and fined a months wages minimum and he may well think twice before he goes on the piss again with his mates.

He is gonna get loads of stick from opposing fans every game from now till the end of the season and will almost certainly affect his game as we seen at Newcastle. How that effects the team now remains to be seen.but it could cost us a place in europe. He isn't the brightest star in the sky though and one word sums him up: Dickhead.

Paul Cherrington
91 Posted 02/04/2019 at 14:55:05
Sorry, I just don't get this attitude that because someone is earning a lot of money and doing a job we'd all love, that he should just accept people goading him and going out of their way to verbally abuse him. no-one should be expected to put up with that – what job they do and how much they earn does not come into it.

Good on Pickford I say – why should he not be able to go out with friends or family on– his time off for a drink if he likes? why should he be a prisoner in his own home because large sections of modern society don't know how to behave properly? he did exactly the right thing – maybe those thugs purposely causing trouble will think twice next time.

at the end of the day, he did not start the trouble and was just defending himself from people behaving aggressively towards him which he has every right to do. all this turn the other cheek stuff is nonsense. would you do that if you were out with your family and a bunch of strangers started slagging you off about your work in front of everyone? of course not, you would stick up for yourself as Pickford rightfully did.

if those Newcastle fans had left him alone instead of purposely starting trouble to record on their phones, then none of it would have happened. Blame them – not one of our players.

Jay Wood

92 Posted 02/04/2019 at 14:55:13
Peter @ 60 (and 7).

"Can’t believe people sticking up for Pickford."

Sadly, I can believe sanctimonious, quick-to-judge-without-a-shred-of-evidence posts and posters such as yours.

We "don’t know facts" (your words) of this incident. Yet it didn't stop the morally outraged wading right in, not even bothering in getting the basic 'known facts' right from the online reports and brief grainy mobile phone footage.

In this thread you have some calling him out for going out in 'enemy territory' in Newcastle, when all reports clearly state he was at a club/pub in Sunderland.

In the 10 second video inside the club, in spite of being heckled by a provocateur (possibly even the person filming the scene), Jordan is relaxed and obligingly poses for photos. Horror of horrors, he smiles ruefully at his abuser and gives him the finger.

How very dare he!

He doesn't look pissed. We have absolutely no idea what his tipple was.

Then there is the 26 second video outside the club, shot from distance behind many people. The 'frontline' confrontation doesn't last even 10 seconds and even then there appears to be already a bevy of - mates? club doormen? - between him and the target of his ire.

Quite clearly, there is a woman with long blonde hair with Jordan's entourage - his wife? How many on here stopped to consider she may have been the target of abuse that Jordan reacted to?

Then there is the actual police report of the incident that occurred at 12:19am (Monday). Not an excessively late hour for a night out on a Sunday evening.

Let's pad out the 'known'. He is a Sunderland lad (and fan), born and bred. Yet even that is bizarrely listed as some kind of 'crime' by some in this thread.

He recently became a father. His partner is not some money-digging WAG, but his childhood sweetheart. Sunday was Mother's Day. Sunderland also played a cup final at Wembley.

How outrageous that both Jordan, his missus and their infant child should return to spend the day in their home town with family and friends.

How irresponsible that the parents left their infant in the hands of doting grandparents whilst they went out to socialise with friends, watching Sunderland play a game of footy on telly in a bar.

Look, I 'get' the argument that high profile sports people have a duty to look after themselves with a healthy diet and lifestyle.

I 'get' that, unfortunately, they cannot lead 'normal' lives and go out to shop and socialise - whatever, whenever and wherever they want.

I 'get' there will always be brain-dead idiots looking to provoke an incident, ever-ready to record events on their smartphones so they can flog the footage to the tabloids.

What I don't get is that on the one hand today's modern players are criticized for having no comprehension of the 'real world', hiding (as it is presumed) behind their high-walled mansions, rather than 'live among the people' as many a former player did as portrayed by Becky Tallentire's wonderful series 'Real Footballers' Wives'. But when they do do something normal - go out with mates to watch a footy game on telly in a bar - they get labelled irresponsible.

What I also don't get is the many, MANY unsubstantiated posts in this thread that leap to the conclusion he was pissed, easily provoked, and the aggressor.

If he was easily provoked as claimed by some, the fuse took a long time to burn down. Presuming Jordan and his group stayed out from the time the Sunderland game kicked off to the time of the reported incident (OUTSIDE the bar on leaving), doing some basic maths that was around 8 hours before something 'kicked off'.

Yet on the basis of some very flimsy and unsubstantiated evidence - fabircated, even - some want him sold, brought down a peg or two, read the riot act.

I'll repeat my closing words from my original post in this thread:

Some are so quick to judge and condemn, based on nothing but their own prejudices and flakey moral indignation.

Rob Halligan
93 Posted 02/04/2019 at 15:01:33
Well said Jay. As I said last night, looking at what Pickford is drinking in that video clip looks no more than a blackcurrant and soda or lemonade. What he's had prior to that nobody knows, but to automatically assume he's pissed is outrageous. People can go to a pub and drink soft drinks only you know.

Stephen Davies
94 Posted 02/04/2019 at 15:10:29
James #86
Officious?..No not really...the question was 'what has he done...'
I merely pointed out the obvious what he had done or do you believe that he hadnt done what I pointed out or it didnt happen?
Yep Ive read Sec 5 POA. Its all there to read on tinternet...have a decko yourself and if he you think that if a little old lady was nearby and she wouldnt be alarmed by the behaviour she witnessed then you should be a defence lawyer.
Rob Halligan
95 Posted 02/04/2019 at 15:12:16
One other thing, would Pickford not have been driving down to Liverpool early Monday morning for training, or were the squad given a day off?

If he had to drive down, then he couldn't afford to be pissed and risk causing any accidents and / or losing his licence.

Daniel A Johnson
96 Posted 02/04/2019 at 15:22:08
If Carragher can keep his job on prime time sky sports after gobbing in a female teenagers face which is clearly caught on camera without provocation.

Then pickford having a few bevvies and flipping the bird can be excused surely.

Jay Harris
97 Posted 02/04/2019 at 15:24:57
Besides what Jay said which is a lot of commonsense I see that the Daily Mail are advertsing that they are offering money for "interesting" video clips.

Is it any wonder they are called the "gutter" press.

Gone are the days of real journalists.

Fran Mitchell
98 Posted 02/04/2019 at 15:29:40
Pickford went the pub and had some dick shouted and pickford argues back.

Absurd, sell him? not a chance, sent him to Prison I reckon. 40 years, no parole.

Would somebody please think of the children

Don Alexander
99 Posted 02/04/2019 at 15:44:48
Well at least it solves the conundrum of what Duncan Ferguson does actually coach!

I'll get my coat.

John Pierce
100 Posted 02/04/2019 at 15:47:13
Gamebot ruins thread. Shock.
Mike Gaynes
101 Posted 02/04/2019 at 15:48:13
Gary #67, I would say you must be kidding, but I know you're not. Sell him? Ridiculous.

Daniel A. #78, no doubt, but their names aren't all over the world media.

Rob #93, bang on -- and refreshingly succinct.

John McFarlane Snr
102 Posted 02/04/2019 at 15:49:45
Hi Jay [92], I agree with your well-presented post; footballers and other celebrities should be able to lead normal lives... but, in the case of footballers, I believe that the problem lies mainly with we, the supporters – I use the word 'we' loosely because it's only a section of supporters who fall into this category.

I'm of an age when players travelled to games by tram, but unfortunately I never had the pleasure of their company, because I lived within walking distance of the ground.

If my son was a noted professional footballer on Merseyside, I would advise him to find a country pub on the outskirts of the city where the chance of unpleasant incidents would be minimised. Any player representing Everton or Liverpool, and socialising locally, runs the risk of being tormented by one set of supporters for autographs, or suffering verbal or physical abuse from supporters of their rivals. It's a sad indictment of today's society.

Kieran Kinsella
103 Posted 02/04/2019 at 16:26:26
Rob 93

Blackcurrant? Maybe. But there were a bunch of Sunderland lads when I worked a bar in Manchester while at Uni. Their drink of choice was a nasty concoction called "Snakebite and black." Half a pint of cider, half of pint of the cheapest lager we had (usually Harp) and a shot of blackcurrant juice which gave it that purple look. Obviously, I have no way of knowing what he was drinking but that was the first thing that came to mind when I saw the pictures.

Stan Schofield
104 Posted 02/04/2019 at 16:42:17
Jay@92: Good post.

So far as I can see, there's nothing new with this incident, it's always happened and probably always will, but will be more rapidly and intensely commented on these days because of mobile phone videos and all that paraphernalia.

Even when I was a kid, not many footballers would choose to spend much time in the centre of a city where they play, choosing instead to live and socialise in places like Formby, which seemed very posh to me at the time. These days, they're likely to reside in places like Knutsford, where it's again upmarket.

Overall, I'm not convinced that much has changed since the 70s. Yes, nowadays they're mega rich, but even back then the top players were relatively rich compared with ordinary match-going supporters, and they all seemed to drive fancy cars when nobody I knew had a car.

All I'm saying here is, no big surprises, nothing new under the sun (or The Sun), and it looks fairly trivial. But the media deal mainly in trivia, so expect Pickford to be hanged, drawn and quartered.

Roger Helm
105 Posted 02/04/2019 at 17:16:05
Looked a bit like handbags to me, not like the Ben Stokes incident. But this is how young men with not much in the way of brains or education like to relax. I hope he is more careful in the future in his choice of venue, or at least has a good minder with him, as if he comes across someone with a knife, it could be career over.
Alan McGuffog
106 Posted 02/04/2019 at 17:20:33
Point is, times and habits have changed. In the fifties and sixties players ( from both sides of the park)would socialise in pubs in Maghull and Formby and such.They would be regulars and would, largely, be left alone. Indeed unless my memory is playing tricks, the Liverpool team even featured in a TV add, something like “ look in at your local” to encourage people to visit the boozer
Should the players want a more “ bachanallian “ night out there were a number of members only clubs in town or over the water that they would frequent.
By en large they did not hang out in shitty bars with equally shitty punters .
Someone needs to have a quiet word.
Fran Mitchell
107 Posted 02/04/2019 at 17:21:16
Roger: never been to a pub? Too educated to drink with the proles?

Let me guess, we like our footballers to drink in 'wine bars' on the top floor of Brunei-owned hotels with decent members of society

Bill Gienapp
108 Posted 02/04/2019 at 17:57:56
I wonder if those advocating the sale of Pickford and bemoaning his error-strewn performances routinely costing us points are aware that he currently has the fourth most clean sheets in the league - more than De Gea, Lloris, Schmeichel, Patricio, Foster, Leno, etc...

Obviously he has his flaws and there are areas of his game he needs to work on, but I'm glad we have him.

Peter Warren
109 Posted 02/04/2019 at 18:11:42
Bill didn’t realise that, I am surprised.
Peter Warren
110 Posted 02/04/2019 at 18:19:53
Jay - stand by my comment he is stupid being out in a club / bar at midnight. Why go to a bar or club at that time, there’s a high risk of trouble for anybody yet alone a premier league footballer.

I never commented he as the aggressor / agitator, he may also be right to defend himself / his wife if that’s the case. However, he’s put himself in a situation because of stupidity. What’s it going to take for footballers to learn, Gerrard could have gone to jail for his incident in southport.

Happy for someone to explain to me why it isn’t stupid.

Jay Wood

111 Posted 02/04/2019 at 18:40:24
Clearly Peter, if you continue to insist that anyone being out beyond midnight is an act of stupidity and high risk, then nothing anyone can say to you will convince you otherwise.
Darren Hind
112 Posted 02/04/2019 at 18:46:35
Shrugs shoulders

Not a fuck given

Stan Schofield
113 Posted 02/04/2019 at 18:47:57
Peter@110: It's quite an assertion to say there's a high risk of trouble. To have any idea of the actual risk, as opposed to an imagined risk, you'd need to look at the relative frequency of trouble occurring in relation to the overall frequency of such visits. Now, I don't know what that actual risk would be, but I would not wager any money on it being high.
Brian Williams
114 Posted 02/04/2019 at 18:56:13
Gerrard should have gone to jail for his incident. Fucking stitch-up that was.
Rob Halligan
115 Posted 02/04/2019 at 19:04:19
Is right Brian. The DJ basher was caught bang to rights and yet walked away scott free.
Brian Williams
116 Posted 02/04/2019 at 19:16:34
Yeh, Rob, because a deal was done with the CPS that all his mates –and there was a load of em – agreed to plead guilty so he could walk.

Disgusting, bearing in mind the footage available clearly shows what happened.

Neil Copeland
117 Posted 02/04/2019 at 19:39:58
Brian, I bet the CPS deal with his mates cost a few bob.
Tommy Surgenor
118 Posted 02/04/2019 at 19:46:29
Jay Wood 92. I for one really appreciate your input on this website.

I find (more often than not) that I agree whole heartedly with your opinion. Often to the point that I don’t feel the need to post ‘cause you have said everything I want to say in a far more articulate manner than I ever could!

Yet again you are bang on point with this topic.

Stephen Davies
119 Posted 02/04/2019 at 19:55:07
Stan #113
The risk would be very difficult to guage as you would first have to establish how many premieeship footballers frequent thar location during late night hrs.
Neil Copeland
120 Posted 02/04/2019 at 19:55:23
Getting back to Jordan; perhaps the club he went to has a decent reputation and he has been numerous times without issues.

To me Jordan comes across as a larger than life type who will attract attention. So, ignoring the fact that he is a top premier league player who also plays for his country, he may get some provocation from others regardless. It may be that he normally handles those situations very well but as John #102 states above he would be well advised to visit places away from his home town.

Someone at the club needs to have a quiet word and remind him that for someone in the public eye, throwing punches for whatever reason is not acceptable.

Stan Schofield
121 Posted 02/04/2019 at 20:01:55
Stephen@119: Exactly, that would be part of the relative frequency estimation, and underlines why it's quite an assertion to say that the risk is high.
Brian Williams
122 Posted 02/04/2019 at 20:05:27
Neil #117.

Oh he paid all their fines .........and more!

Brian Williams
123 Posted 02/04/2019 at 20:09:55
Roger Helm
124 Posted 02/04/2019 at 20:20:13
Fran, if you had been out in Doncaster (or any other town) centre on a Saturday night you would know what I mean. You have to be pretty careful about who you make eye contact with, which is what I do.

It would be nice if our footballers could relax sipping Chateau Latour listening to Bach's St Matthew Passion but I can't see it happening, can you? So these incidents will probably go on occurring.

Mike Gaynes
125 Posted 02/04/2019 at 20:23:24
Bill #108, yep, and he's also joint 6th in saves, joint 7th in goals against average, 8th in save percentage, and joint leader in pen saves with three. Top half in everything. And he's also younger than any of the top keepers ranked ahead of him in those categories, with the exception of Kepa at Chelsea.

Yes, he's had his blunders, but they all have. Overall a pretty good season. Worth keeping this keeper for many years to come IMO.

But this was still a pretty dumb thing to do.

Paul Hughes
126 Posted 02/04/2019 at 20:28:41
As it happens, I live a few hundred yards away from Paul Scholes, and have done for the past 20 years. Never seen him being an arse in any of the many local pubs, although occasionally bumped into him in Tesco's doing his shopping. Now he is probably an exceptional case, but it shows it can be done, while living pretty close to all your old mates.
Mike Gaynes
127 Posted 02/04/2019 at 20:31:44
Brian #123, first time the words "sensible" and "Joey Barton" have co-existed on the same page, but you're right, that's a good article. Thanks.
Brian Williams
128 Posted 02/04/2019 at 21:12:18
Mike #127.
Mike, I was gonna say the very same thing when I put the link up but it was too much typing on my phone....

Great minds, eh?

Stephen Davies
129 Posted 02/04/2019 at 22:19:36
#Neil # 120
I worked in Sunderland for a number if years.
Sunderland City Centre is very small...in fact I wouldnt call it a City centre..think on the lines of Birkenhead sizeish without the posh places to go a little further afield.
There are no upmarket places in Sunderland...if a footballer is out there, word will get round very quickly and whoever wants to find you will easily find you quickly.
Neil Copeland
130 Posted 02/04/2019 at 23:03:42
Stephen #129, cheers a bit of inside info helps. Sounds like he has been a bit naive then and hopefully learns from it.
Steve Ferns
131 Posted 02/04/2019 at 23:06:39
At Pickford’s age I had embarked on my career proper. I was all to aware that one silly incident could cost me said career, and I had spent a lot of time, and a considerable amount of money to throw it away on a stupid drunken night out. That’s what uni was all about, and by 24/5 I made sacrifices as I looked to make headway in my career. Working in Liverpool, living in the city centre, I knew I was vulnerable in the city, so if went out in the city I made sure to always avoid all trouble. I did so very easily.

It’s not just footballers who have to make sacrifices. Others do too. The difference being Pickford earns more in a week than I made in the first four years of my career. Yet I understood the big picture and had that dedication to my career that led me to mature. Pickford is paid a lot of money to compensate him for these sacrifices. He can revel in whatever he wants after his career is over. He can even have a few nights out in the summer.

Alcohol has a devastating effect on your body and your joints. It can worsen niggling injuries and slow recovery. It’s not good for a footballer.

If I was his manager, England and Everton, I’d have a word. Nothing more than that. He’s not done this before. Perhaps this was his chance to celebrate the birth of his child, perhaps this was authorised. Perhaps he was not intoxicated (appearances can be deceiving). However, he still put himself in a position that someone of dedication like Cristiano Ronaldo would not do. If he wants to be the very best he can be, then he would not drink. I can say hand on heart that if I was him, I would most certainly not drink a drop in season. I would also be speaking to a sleeping coach and trying to ensure that I was asleep by key times, following the lead of Cristiano and other top players. The top players are the most dedicated. Pickford has done nothing wrong (subject to the police investigation saying otherwise), but he has shown that he is not as dedicated to his career as I would expect him to be. And if I was his manager I would feel very let down.

Brian Williams
132 Posted 02/04/2019 at 23:17:04
Steve #131.
Steve, difference between you and your "average" footballer (not skillwise average) is that to do what you do requires a high level of intelligence (though I bet some of your clients accuse you otherwise) and being a very good footballer... er, doesn't.
Defence rests, m'lud!
Steve Carse
133 Posted 02/04/2019 at 23:17:12
Kieran (103), top prize to you for the most outstanding bit of guesswork.
Alan (106), you and I have hung around enough shitty bars in our time to know that they will likely contain shitty punters, but from my very infrequent visits to non-shitty bars/clubs I can report that they come complete with shitty punters too.
Steve Ferns
134 Posted 02/04/2019 at 23:24:17
Brian, Cristiano Ronaldo is not the sharpest tool in the box, academically speaking. However, he lives his life like a Robot (weird child conceptions aside). He’s got to where he has on dedication. His talent is no where near as natural as his great rival. Cristiano is not a one off, many others follow this lead.

Wenger started a revolution at Arsenal that went to extremes with the likes of Anelka (Muslim) and Vieira who never drank. I believe Bergkamp was the same and they set the culture for that club after the George Graham boys were eased out.

So, it doesn’t matter about intelligence. It’s about dedication. Clearly, Pickford doesn’t want to reach the very top enough, otherwise this would not have crossed his mind. Instead he would be in bed after consulting his sleeping chart and ensuring sleep pattern so to have Maximum energy for Sunday, knowing that earning £6m a year is more than enough compensation for this level of dedication.

Steve Ferns
135 Posted 02/04/2019 at 23:38:51
Just to explain the sleep point. For me, Pickford seems to have an issue with concentration. He’s made more errors that led to a goal than any other player since 2016, as per the BBC graphic on MOTD2 on Sunday night. Concentration is most certainly linked to sleep. If I was Pickfords manager, and without this latest incident, I would have been ensuring that he spoke to a sleep expert, if he did not already do so.

To fully understand the issues of sleep, football and Cristiano Ronaldo, you may with to read this article which I found very interesting at the time, and think it’s something that Everton should be exploring to the fullest. Note Man united have been at it for years.

Guardion Article on the man who taught Cristiano Ronaldo how to sleep

Dick Fearon
136 Posted 02/04/2019 at 23:50:33
In the 60s I would see Players of the two clubs supping a pint or four in Maghull pubs. Yet I stress, only in the off-season.

When a derby was due I noticed a kind of tension in their relationships. On one occasion in a local betting shop Yeats and Pickering had to be separated by their respective teammates.

Paul Bernard
137 Posted 02/04/2019 at 23:58:18
JP is a ‘professional footballer' keyword being professional. Unfortunately for players, going out on the ale is not a good idea. So many now trade pints in the pub with the lads for wine with a meal with the family.

Footballers are paid handsomely for their status. They are not only judged by their footballing ability but also their habits, work in the community, even go as far as saying their families are often reported on (Rooney, Becks, Ronaldo) to name a few.

What the fans do by goading him isn't fair or right, but JP has to realise that earning great sums of money in the public eye comes with sacrifices. When you are doing well there will always be the minority that want to drag you down. It is often best to stay in or pick your drinking venues wisely.

Mike Gaynes
138 Posted 03/04/2019 at 00:51:09
Steve, just a couple notes on your posts -- Messi is actually much more the ascetic than Cristiano, because he never goes out. Total homebody known for sleeping 10-11 hours at a time.

And Everton have a long-term commitment to sleep therapy -- for the fans at Goodison. Plenty of time for everyone to stack lots of zzzz's during most games over the past two years. So we have a well-rested and high-performing fan base.

Mark Andersson
139 Posted 03/04/2019 at 03:24:57
Mike Gaynes 138 Brilliant made me smile...
Billy Roberts
140 Posted 03/04/2019 at 06:48:05
Advising Jordan Pickford to follow Ronaldo's example? This was the same footballer who has recently been going through a very messy legal wrangle with a model he copped of with in a nightclub wasn't it ? Or was it a church I can't remember.
Nicolas Anelka has been used as another shining example, what a surly unlikeable shit that was, but he never once drunk an evil blackcurrant and cider snakebite so he's sound.
I havn't seen the film and have no wish to so maybe I'm way off the mark but it sounds like the biggest problem here is the Geordie who is abusing him. Of course like society in general let's ignore him as if he doesn't exist and castigate the person he provokes, as supporters of EFC and all its players maybe we should give Jordan the benefit of the doubt and not the pricks giving him stick and the pricks with their phones in the air, Maybe going for a drink in your 1 club home town on the surface
didn't appear too irresponsible to Jordan Pickford and his wife / friends.
Bob Parrington
141 Posted 03/04/2019 at 07:03:45
Mark Anderson - I'll second that!
Neil Copeland
142 Posted 03/04/2019 at 08:58:32
Billy #140, I think Cristiano and his friend must have been playing scrabble together.
Peter Warren
143 Posted 03/04/2019 at 09:09:54
Ok Jay, you’re right, it was improbable to predict trouble in the pub where Pickford was full of people having drank all day watching Sunderland, I mean who could have predicted a England and premier league star would have been given stick and got in a bit of bother.
Peter Thistle
144 Posted 03/04/2019 at 13:01:31
No crime was comitted, a minor scuffle between a few drunk people. Nobody got hurt so what's the big deal ? Hate it when the police get involved in nothing fights that are forgotten about the next day. Stupid world we live in.
Jay Wood

145 Posted 03/04/2019 at 13:25:45
Peter @ 143.

The devil is in the detail. @ 110 you said:

"he is stupid being out in a club / bar at midnight. Why go to a bar or club at that time, there’s a high risk of trouble for anybody yet alone a premier league footballer."

Your latest post rather confirms how I responded, that if you continue to insist that anyone being out beyond midnight is an act of stupidity and high risk, then nothing anyone can say to you will convince you otherwise.

Read Stan Schofield's posts for clarification as to why that is rather an inflated claim that goes way beyond taking issue with the Jordan Pickford incident.

BTW, more detail is shared today that Jordan ignored personal taunts towards himself all night long. The incident outside the bar was provoked by some charmer calling his partner a 'fat c**t'.

You hold fast to your 'moral values' Peter. I'll stick with mine, ta very much.

Paul Bernard
146 Posted 03/04/2019 at 14:10:30
Jay @145, I don't think peter is saying that all people who drink at certain times or at certain venues are stupid.

I think what he is trying to say is that if you do go out late at night or stay out until late, then you run the risk of being dragged into one form or drama or another.

JP has a responsibility through his career to avoid being dragged into said drama. What apparently was said to his bird is bang out of order and understandable for JP to be upset, but he gets paid handsomely to sacrifice certain aspects we all take for granted like having a pint in the local.

Billy Roberts
147 Posted 03/04/2019 at 14:20:26
Peter Warren 143, as a football fan did you ever go to a home or away game where there may have been potential for trouble??
Or did you sensibly only go to the safe ones, not being a stupid person and all?
Some of us like to decide for ourselves where we would like to go and when, maybe Jordan's wife wanted to go ? Imagine that.
As I mentioned previously some people just don't want to identify the real problem, and that is the abusive idiot, let us make it a stupid decision for him to make when he decides to start goading and abusing people.
Famous or not.
Jay Wood

148 Posted 03/04/2019 at 14:53:55
Paul @ 146.

I have to say to you also: the devil is in the detail.

I am not calling Peter out for calling people 'stupid' because they drink at certain times or at certain venues.

I (and Stan Schofield) raise an eyebrow to the very sweeping claim he makes that 'there’s a high risk of trouble for anybody' who does so.

If you applied that 'logic' to the evolution and history of humankind, we'd still be cowering in caves by firelight 'cos we were afraid of what was beyond the cave's entrance in the dark of night.

Read my detailed post @ 92 that acknowledges the other points you make.

Paul Bernard
149 Posted 03/04/2019 at 15:41:29
Jay (148) I think he has a good point though. Going to venues were people consume alcohol does increase the chances of anybody (generally or famous) getting caught in some form of drama.
I don't think peter wanted to make a sweeping statement as such, but I'm sure statistically there is a higher risk of being dragged into drama when in pubs/clubs than there is in a quiet upmarket restaurant for example (im trying to think of ways for JP to go out for a drink with his missus).

Without us both getting bogged down by peter's opinion too much, its very unfortunate that footballers are expected to sacrifice their teenage years for the sport, although they do earn sums of money that most of us would give up alcohol for life for, never mind a decade long career.

What he does when he retires a multi millionaire at 40 is quite frankly nobody's business. Unfortunately football seems to have become a show-biz type profession.

Peter Warren
150 Posted 03/04/2019 at 21:30:43
Nothing to do with moral to do with stupidity and lack of professionalism.
Billy Roberts
151 Posted 03/04/2019 at 21:45:57
The problem I have with your argument Peter it is not Pickfords reaction you are saying is stupid it is his wild idea of going for a drink in his home town with friends and family, that is a 1 club home town, hes not walking around Newcastle with a Sunderland kit on with Pickford on the back, you never answered my question about your decisions about going into potential problem situations did you?
Maybe because you're an Evertonian you think you have the right to control the players comings and goings, you don't and no matter how much they are paid you wont.
Peter Warren
152 Posted 03/04/2019 at 22:56:36
Sorry Billy I never saw the question and apologies for long winded response. Yes I’ve been home and away games, and if “trouble game” I tended to go straight to game rather than pub or go to pub a bit away from the ground. I have been to away games numerous times with my black mate who has got abuse and argued with people but that’s a bit different.

I think the point however is that I’m not a superstar footballer nor professional athelete, Pickford is both. Going out for a meal, shopping whatever all fine. Being in a pub for several hours and then after midnight full of fans drinking all day, I don’t think professional.

I have no idea what went on, I never said him throwing a punch at someone wrong - the guy may well have deserved it. I thought putting finger up at someone was stupid when called a childish name / insult (although to be fair maybe it was a bit of banter and him joking with people). However I stand by my comment that he was stupid being there, no matter how much he wanted to be there (or his wife for someone said) or how much he loves Sunderland.

He is an Everton player, an English international, he’s 25, he’s under the spotlight more than he has ever been, he’s not a teenager and yes I expect more. I think someone said he was getting abuse for hours and just ignored it - why didn’t he go if that was the case? Not the wisest decision to stay somewhere you’re getting abuse.

People on here talking about what about the knobs giving him abuse. Of course everybody hates those people. But I’m interested in Pickford cos he’s our player and I love football and I’m on ToffeeWeb forum!

Leaving aside being in a bar in your hometown after midnight when he’s our keeper which many on this site seem fine with, does anybody think that may affect his ability to train / his performance. I don’t know if he as drinking but sleep is a massive thing - sports science gone about it for years - think I remember another keeper for us, Nigel Martyn saying how Moyes was big on it - this is years ago. Does Pickford want to be the best, does he want to be better than my favourite footballer Big Nev.

Am I wrong when I pay a fortune for footy, when I have supported Everton all my life, when Pickford is paid millions and having a shocking season to expect him not to be out in a pub at midnight and getting involved in altercations whether his fault or not? Perhaps I am wrong but I do expect it, when he’s finished do what he likes but whilst he’s an Everton player, I think we should all make demands on or our players, both in and off the field.

Billy Roberts
153 Posted 03/04/2019 at 23:23:17
Ok Peter, thanks for your reply, I do appreciate that you have taken time to explain your frustrations, you mentioned you went into situations with your black mate that could have or did lead to confrontation and that gets to heart of the matter, were you or your black mate "stupid " you both had responsibility's to your family to not get beaten up but decided quite rightly to plough on because it was just a civilised afternoon? Or should be, if a Goth gets his head kicked in a " normal bar" after 12 whose fault is it? Is it the Goth for being stupid?
I wont many any exceptions for thugs .
Peter Warren
154 Posted 03/04/2019 at 23:37:08
Yep I was stupid, not for being with my mate, but did loads of stupid stuff 21 ish and argued back with people when as wiser now would have dealt in different way. I never had my own family and generally once you do and probably with age, you stop being as macho if that’s the phrase.

I still think he’s stupid to have put himself in the situation. Maybe naieve might be a better word, inexperienced - nobody’s perfect but I am surprised that any Premier league footballer is still going to pubs / bars - particular at midnight.

Pickford does display this macho, this competitiveness, this sod younall attitude and this unerring faith in his ability. It’s probably helped him get to where he is. He also comes across as a real down to earth nice guy.

Southall I find really interesting and what separates top goalies and by that I mean truly world class and good keeper is then mind. Pickford needs to work on his mental side, particularly I would say his decision making (coming out against Spurs, did the same against Rondon few weeks ago and got away with it) loads of other instances this season and yes, decision to go out at weekend in my is indicative of his lack of judgment.

Peter Warren
155 Posted 03/04/2019 at 23:46:57
My simple point is

Premier league football star = in a pub = bad idea = pub in town centre = really bad idea = still in pub at midnight = really really bad idea.

Billy Roberts
156 Posted 04/04/2019 at 01:01:49
Ok Peter, thanks for your near Emc2 solution to people going the boozer = nirvana.
But you still keep missing the point that its the individuals responsibility to behave them selves, stop admonishing the victim of the abuse and save your tirade for the instigator
If we all keep this mantra/ attitude things will change.
Peter Warren
157 Posted 04/04/2019 at 07:32:15
Haha thanks Billy I do get your point but also, I do not know who the Instigator was, not much evidence I’ve seen. People assuming it wasn’t Pickford and I suspect they’re right. I’ve only heard on video childish comments like butterfingers etc.

Footballers have a lot of power and PR people. Could have easily leaked “he got a abused all day” “called his wife x” - Just like society as a whole some footballers will be thugs - for example Joey Barton was one. I actually don’t think Pickford is and certainly not accusing him of that.

The actual incident was nothing, storm in a tea cup but being there was an error of judgment / stupidity in my view, there could have been proper trouble, he could have bust his hand or been seriously injured.

I’ve commented far too much on it anyway and that’s it from me on the subject. Let’s hope he keeps his focus now as he has done in last two matches admirably, because he can be a great keeper for us if he applies himself correctly. COYB.

Derek Knox
158 Posted 04/04/2019 at 12:18:44
I suppose from a Goalkeeping perspective, we should be glad that he has been able to deal with a 'bouncer' in his area!
Paul Cherrington
159 Posted 04/04/2019 at 12:54:36
The point still remains that anyone, whatever job they do and however much they get paid, should be able to go out in public without getting verbal or physical abuse directed at them.

Whether being in a bar late at night is actually a good idea for a footballer on his time off is another argument entirely. we blame the victim too much in this country — if some idiot mouthing off gets a slap back from the person they are hassling then they deserve it.

We should actually be applauding the victim for standing up for themselves and not just taking abuse on the chin or shrugging it off. Especially, as new reports suggest, it was his wife that was getting called disgusting things by the thugs who started it. Why should he just laugh that off and let them get away with it?

Stan Schofield
160 Posted 05/04/2019 at 11:16:59
Peter@157: I agree that on the face of it, it doesn't seem a good idea for someone in his position to expose himself and his family to that kind of situation. You could say it's an 'unnecessary risk', but I don't think you could say it's a 'high risk'. Whether the risk is acceptable or not is up to the player, because they're adults.
Peter Warren
161 Posted 05/04/2019 at 23:10:28
Paul and Stan are both 100% correct.

My annoyance is take (perhaps) extreme examples of Messi and Ronaldo - would it happen to the

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