The Revolving Door

There has been huge reluctance to usher in further instability at Everton by removing Marco Silva and triggering yet another change in manager but if the Director of Football model works as intended, it need not be all that disruptive

Lyndon Lloyd 26/11/2019 158comments  |  Jump to last
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For a club that has known very little stability since David Moyes packed his bags for Old Trafford six years ago, the thought of changing managers at Everton once again has not been an appealing one. Setting aside David Unsworth's caretaker tenure, should Marco Silva be sacked in the coming days, his successor would be the Blues’ fifth managerial appointment since 2013. Not anywhere near Watford or Chelsea levels of turnover but in keeping with the current environment of frequent hiring and firing in the uber-competitive Premier League.

Fans, pundits and coaches alike have lamented this culture of chopping and changing at England’s top-flight clubs and it is true that few managers get the time they might need to really get their arms around a project and build the team they want. Sometimes it’s down to a lack of patience on the part of the club ownership, but the basic pre-requisite for retaining the faith of the hierarchy must be forward progress and evidence that the manager not only acknowledges the fundamental problems that need to be addressed but is willing to make them.

Roberto Martinez struggled through two seasons of stubborn refusal to change his methods at Goodison Park and his players’ confidence in him had evaporated by the final few games of a tenure that had spectacularly unravelled from his impressive first campaign in charge. Farhad Moshiri was left with no option but to let him go.

Similarly, the longer Ronald Koeman remained in the job, the less of a fit he felt at Finch Farm. Displaying a similar reluctance to change the way his team played and lacking a genuine affinity with his players, results got so bad in the autumn of 2017 that, again, the Board had little choice but to sack him. Koeman might only have been given nine Premier League games in a season disrupted by Europa League qualification but he was a coach who didn’t seem interested in putting in the hours needed at the training ground to find solutions.

Sam Allardyce, meanwhile, was only ever intended to be an unpalatable stop-gap while Moshiri waited for Silva to become available. Unfortunately, his pursuit of the Portuguese looks to have been an ill-advised gamble; his faith in the comparatively young coach with a reputation for meticulous preparation and burning ambition to succeed misplaced given how Silva’s reign has now unravelled.

There is no doubt that Silva has been unlucky and suffered unwanted setbacks — Yerry Mina, André Gomes, Jean-Philippe Gbamin and Bernard’s respective time at Goodison has been disrupted by injury, two of them serious and long-term while refereeing injustice; his midfield linchpin Idrissa Gueye was sold to Paris St Germain while a concerted effort to sign Kurt Zouma was scuppered by Chelsea’s transfer ban; and refereeing injustice at the hands of VAR has intervened this season to undercut his efforts to gain some momentum after a seriously disappointing start to 2019-20 — but by the same token, the former Estoril boss hasn’t helped himself at all.

He has exhibited maddening inconsistency with his choice of strikers, an annoying and unwarranted deference to some of the older, best-paid members of the squad, and a general tendency to fall back on tired strategies, formation and personnel combinations that have left patience and support for him in very short supply. Everton have regressed to an alarming degree under him and not wanting to prolong a pattern of instability in the dugout, admit that you made a bad appointment, or enhance a reputation as a sacking club is no reason to persist with a failing tenure. As Oliver Kay wrote in a column for The Athletic recently, “time is not the answer if the wrong man is in charge.” No one wants a revolving door at their football club but, as Arsenal, West Ham and Watford might also be about to find out, sometimes it’s better to keep looking for the right man in the hope you’ll one day find him.

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While Leicester’s unexpected title triumph in 2016 is held up as the quintessential example of what can be achieved against all odds, the Foxes’ experience over the past five years can also be instructive as far as Everton’s current dilemma is concerned. Over a similar five-year time span, Leicester have had four different managers, including one interim appointment in the form of Craig Shakespeare, their version of the Allardyce stop-gap.

That churn in managers didn’t stop them from sacking Claude Puel after a run of similarly awful results to the one currently overseen by Silva and installing Brendan Rodgers in his place. Despite only being in the position since February, the ex-Liverpool boss is presiding over a team that has, thanks to some canny summer recruitment, an identity, a playing system, a cohesiveness and a sense of purpose that is wholly absent at Goodison Park. They’re also second in the league after 13 matches. The experience at the King Power Stadium suggests that if — and it’s a big “if” — Everton’s hierarchy can identify the right, viable candidate, it’s not inconceivable that he could get things moving in the right direction in fairly short order given the foundation he would inherit.

Blues fans have expressed huge reluctance to usher in further instability by removing Silva but recent results and performances, in particular, have foisted that decision on the Everton Board who are expected to act, if not this week then perhaps before the next home game against Chelsea on 7th December. It need not be all that disruptive, however, and it can’t be worse than the current drift towards the relegation zone. With finances likely to be tight, any new manager’s initial brief will probably be to find order from the players available which, once a couple of them are back fit again, isn’t as massive a task as Silva’s methods are making it out to be. The DoF is supposed to handle recruitment anyway, negating the notion that the new man would want to effect a wholesale rebuild to bring in "his" men.

There is talent in this Everton team that is being mis-managed. It should, on paper, be the seventh- or eighth-best team in the Premier League; in the poor and unpredictable Premier League of 2019-20, it should be in the top five before you even begin the discussion over where the Blues might be had Brands and Silva signed a reliable goalscorer and a top-class centre back after it became clear that Chelsea weren’t going to sell Zouma.

Furthermore, there does seem to be a good spirit in the camp between the players themselves (even if there have been rumours that they can split off into factions based on language), and if there is major dissatisfaction with the manager or a sense that Silva has “lost the dressing room”, there hasn’t been much evidence of it. Rather, the players are generally being let down by a failed system and suspect tactics and have been struggling for motivation on the pitch as a result.

In theory, the director of football model that Moshiri has instituted at Everton should make the process of swapping out managers — i.e. changing the person occupying the “head coach” role — a comparatively easy one, certainly more so than under the old model where the manager was responsible for everything from team selection, tactics and coaching to recruitment policy and the overall academy strategy.

It does rely on the new manager adhering to the same ethos and playing style as the DoF, though, and that should preclude a dead-end appointment like Moyes or Mark Hughs. If the fundamentals of a system and style are in place across all levels of the club then it should be a case of selecting the right coach who is willing to easily step into that framework. That continuity from the academy through the Under-23s to the first team doesn’t quite exist yet at Finch Farm but the fact that it’s still in development under Brands is perhaps another reason why changing managers and getting a better head coach now is all the more prudent in terms of Everton’s medium- to long-term future.

The more time moves on past last Saturday without a decision from the club’s hierarchy, the greater the sense that Brands and Moshiri haven’t actually been laying the groundwork for Silva’s succession despite the writing on the wall having been there since the early part of the season. That, more than the need to make the change in the first place, could be the more disruptive aspect of the current situation than the sacking of the present manager itself.

As Daniel Levy just showed at Tottenham, disruption can be minimised by a swift appointment but the paucity of viable options in Everton’s “league” is likely to be the stumbling block that has Moshiri caught between a rock and a hard place. Hand Silva his P45 now and risk another power vacuum like the one that existed between Koeman and Allardyce or hold fire and risk prolonging an uneasy spell with the Portuguese coach in limbo facing a gruelling run of December games.


Reader Comments (158)

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Tony Hill
1 Posted 26/11/2019 at 07:34:11
I do not trust the Board to get it right. The Moshiri/Kenwright mix hasn't worked. There is no decisive, intelligent control.

We are structurally disordered and that can only produce confusion throughout, including the selection of the manager.

We are a badly run club.


Stan Schofield
2 Posted 26/11/2019 at 07:47:38
It’s fine in principle to change the manager again. It would probably produce a positive short-term effect of better performances and results. But in the longer term there’s every likelihood we’d have a recurrence of the same issues.

There are basic problems at Everton which are likely to undermine the efforts of any manager we appoint. One of the biggest is our tendency to sell our best players at the drop of a hat. Selling Gana when the Board knew that Zouma was leaving is a prime example. It was simply a very bad choice that clearly gave a massive risk of defensive instability, which we’ve subsequently seen.

Similarly, before Silva came here, the willingness to sell Lukaku before securing an equivalent or better replacement was clearly a high risk decision in favour of a profit. And the subsequent failure to sign an experienced good striker only highlights the problem more.

This characteristic of Everton is nothing new, and in my memory dates back to the selling of Alan Ball in 1971. Alan Ball, Gary Linekar, Wayne Rooney, Romelu Lukalu, Gana Gueye, all examples of letting pivotal players go at crucial points, to make a big impact elsewhere.

All clubs sell good players, but top clubs don’t do so when those players are in their prime and pivotal to success and there is no adequate replacement.

Add this feature to the bad luck we’ve had with injuries and terrible officiating, and it’s very difficult to see any new manager producing the sustained momentum we need for success.

Dermot Byrne
3 Posted 26/11/2019 at 08:01:14
Stan#2: I think you make a good point. It does have a sense that we sell without a backup plan. And I get the sense that you rarely hear a player saying that they really want to stay at Everton when these rumours start. That seems to reflect a lack of club spirit and there seems to be a little of the commitment as shown in the film about Kendall and his team. Maybe just sign of the times. Or sign of times at our club.

The sad thing is most Blues are very quick to loudly support the team if there is a sense of hope. Sure, some regular posters on TW don't seem to have that, but thankfully the majority are a much louder voice.

So, if and when, they sack Silva, don't do a Moyes or similar. Then hopes really do get dashed for a true majority of fans who love the club.

Jim Bennings
4 Posted 26/11/2019 at 08:06:13
We would be completely insane to sack Silva and appoint Moyes.

I’ve nothing personal against Moyes at all but it’s a monumental step backwards.

Silva is getting the same treatment from the fans that Allardyce, Koeman and Martinez received but Moyes would not be a popular appointment in any way shape or form and I can say it would be almost a certainty that in four months time he himself would be on the end of similar irate supporters fumes.

The only men that fans probably would tolerate a while longer would be a chance on someone like Arteta or a Pochettino (ok maybe dream land but still).

Moyes, Hughes, anyone of that ilk, it’s not going to end well mark my words and sacking Silva to make that kind of appointment is the sign of madness.

Also to appoint Moyes would just be Groundhog Day following the sacking of Koeman and appointing Sam Allardyce, can this club really take a step back two years?

Silva is on borrowed time but come on Moshiri, nearly 4 years in, it’s time now to start getting it right eh?

Wayne Condon
5 Posted 26/11/2019 at 08:06:55
The biggest mistake the Board could make at this time is to appoint another " stop gap " manager ( Moyes/Hughes - WTF ! ). Silva is a massive problem but, looked at dispassionately ( hard to do I know ) I think it is better to stick with him until the "right" replacement is available. What prospective manager, other than the desperate, is going to come to EFC right now ?
Eddie Dunn
6 Posted 26/11/2019 at 08:10:31
Lyndon the DOF shoud indeed make any transition more straightforward than in similar previous cases but could the hiatus be not down to Brands not having a successor in mind, but down to the Board dithering.
The stakes are high for those who have invested a great deal of money in the club and those with a vested interest of realising a long term profit with the building of the new ground and the likely increase in our profile in the game.
Once again the need to stay in the PL with it's financial rewards is making the decision more likely to be deferred in the vain hope of a sudden turn around.
A couple of wins and 6 points takes you right up the table. This Board only seem to act when they can smell the Championship down the corridor. They are poor poker players. They panicked with Big Sam, they got caught out tapping-up Silva and then had to wait for him to come.
It is hardly the story of cunning and stealth that we witnessed at Spurs.
Brands is on the Board and is DOF. I wonder who he wants(if anybody) and I wonder who would like to sit on his fat hands another couple of weeks. After all, they might have to pull their fingers out and do some work instead of planning which concrete island in the Gulf to spend Christmas on.
Kunal Desai
7 Posted 26/11/2019 at 08:14:06
I have accepted for some time that Everton are no longer a big club. The culture and mentality adds to the small time in the way they go about their business. Its been like that for decades.
We over achieved for a decade under Moyes and since he left we have regressed. Other clubs have overtaken Everton as a successful business and it I feel this is just the start with the likes of Leicester and Wolves finishing above us and maybe a few more, not just for one season but consistently for seasons to come.
Everton have always had a hint of Aston Villa in them falling away into the abyss. I genuinely do think that time is drawing nearer.
Mal van Schaick
8 Posted 26/11/2019 at 08:38:15
Silvas inconsistency of choice of players and tactics leading to poor results is a hallmark of him not knowing what he is doing.

The rollercoaster ride of the last five years where new managers are appointed and sacked on more lows than highs where fans continually expect a new manager to be the next messiah is hard to swallow, as it has been so long since performances have been consistent and a high league position solid. It pains me to point at Koop and Liverpool as an example of where we would like to be.

Without the revolving door, we may of found ourselves in league two, so it’s a necessary evil, that helps us maintain our place in the top flight.

Stan Schofield
9 Posted 26/11/2019 at 08:49:06
Dermot@3: In the cases of Ball and Linekar, both apparently wanted to stay at Everton. At both times, we were a top team, but the Club’s apparent enthusiasm to sell these top players without adequate replacements was remarkable. Of course, in the case of Lukaku and Gana, we were no longer a top club, they wanted to leave, but Everton could have chosen to keep them because they were still in contract. But they sold them without adequate replacements.

It all looks like an overall lack of REAL ambition, which contrasts with all the talk from Everton. The Board talks the talk but fails to walk the walk, and this has been so for a long time.

Tony Everan
10 Posted 26/11/2019 at 09:06:16
Top class Lyndon, thanks,

The dithering I think comes from a disjointed board, different and conflicting opinions on what to do, who to approach. Moshiri is craving stability and success but when it comes to making the big decsions he hasn't personally got the football acumen required.

He is relying on his board to direct him. But they always disagree. Kenwright now will be full on to bring Moyes back under the guise of a temporary appointment. Brands and others will be saying different.

Marco Silva was seemingly a done deal before Brands got here, so I don't know how much to attribute his appointment to Brands, if at all.

I would suggest to Farhad not to listen to Bill Kenwright but to take final counsel from Brands. He needs to trust someone to make the best call for the club, and that man has to be Marcel Brands.

Danny Broderick
11 Posted 26/11/2019 at 09:08:15
Why isn’t anyone asking questions of Brands? Silva was quoted in the press over the summer stating that we needed a striker. The fact that we have ended up with Kean and Silva isn’t giving him a go makes me think either Silva doesn’t fancy him, or he thinks he’s not ready. Where is the proven striker that we have needed since Lukaku left?

Silva has to go now, we all agree on that. Too many mistakes with selections and stubbornly playing 4-2-3-1 every week. But if we had signed a proven striker, we wouldn’t be in this position. A goal scorer can mask a myriad of problems. We have missed Lukaku enormously just for his goals. I don’t think there is too much between us and Leicester, but they have Vardy up front.

Stan Schofield
12 Posted 26/11/2019 at 09:24:38
Danny@11: Some of the previous posts are asking questions of the Board, and therefore questions of Brands since he’s a Board member. It is possible that Brands is just one voice on the Board who has been out-voiced by the rest, but we don’t really know.
Terry Farrell
13 Posted 26/11/2019 at 09:47:47
Well summed up Lyndon and Jim agree with your comments. Moyes Hughes and anyone of that ilk would be a disaster and retrograde step. I wanted Silva to have more time and a 1 in 2 striker would have made a massive difference as I think at times we play some good stuff. Does feel like the wheels have come off now though. Certainly wouldn't want to see brands fired
Anthony Murphy
14 Posted 26/11/2019 at 09:55:25
Danny, I think you are right. The board are not singing from the same hymn sheet. The same was true when Allardyce was appointed - hence taking so long back then to sort it out. One thing they probably all do agree on is that Silva’s time is up. The fly in the ointment being Moshiri who hand picked Silva and we all know the lengths he went to to secure his services. Personally I reckon Brands has named his man, but he isn’t available until the summer. I therefore think the board are considering an interim measure, but if not Moyes or the risk of passing this mess on to the inexperienced Unsworth, then who?
Paul A Smith
15 Posted 26/11/2019 at 10:19:04
Danny you are right mate but it's an unpopular opinion. However if you took a paint brush from a painter and asked him to do it with a hair brush, or even just to do your doors whilst relieving his best brush of a few Bristles, you would be spot on and everyone would agree.

Jer Kiernan
16 Posted 26/11/2019 at 10:23:54
Whoever gets the job we need to act NOW, Arsenal and WHU may well be looking for a new manager soon if we wait, As much as it pains me to say we would be very much the "ugly" sister in that 3 some

Mosh it is a brave and indeed prudent man who can admit he was wrong ( especially in a decision made in a field were said man has no clue !!)

Any decision is better than none, Every manager is a gambe

ACT NOW

Derek Thomas
17 Posted 26/11/2019 at 10:24:00
Too many chiefs? Moshiri or Kewright, who's in charge of what and when? Or do they take turns?

Where does DBB fit in? Does she take charge when the absentee bosses are, well, absent...are they all singing from the same sheet...do they even have a sheet.

Same for the football, are Brands and Silva compatible. Who has the final say. Who does what? Is Brands giving him the correct tools to do the job...what ever the job is...and who sets that?

I'm not sure the revolving door is revolving fast enough. They need to wind it up to supersonic speeds so it spews a few more besides Silva out the door.

As always with the County Rd (very, very) Casuals - more questions than answer

I find myself writing that last line more and more and its not getting any better.

Paul A Smith
18 Posted 26/11/2019 at 10:27:43
If this idiot board is split in 2 on manager decisions like the press like to make out, probably bullshit but if its split I know I won't be siding with Moshiri.

His last appointments have been a joke and asking Magic Marcel to bring a Dutch genius in will be more catastrophe. Them hyped up Dutchmen are the funniest genius of them all.

Derek Thomas
19 Posted 26/11/2019 at 10:35:55
I never thought I'd say this, but I wish the International Break was still on. We'd be spared this farce of making ourselves a bigger laughing stock.
Derek Taylor
20 Posted 26/11/2019 at 10:45:51
My fear is that the DoF may be consulted but the DECISON will be made as between Moshiri and Kenwright. Of course, we'll be able to spot a Kenwright man a mile off but unable to do anything about it !
Jer Kiernan
21 Posted 26/11/2019 at 10:51:32
To note that W*nk3r Carragher is online stating that the "loads" of Everton fans he knows don't want Moyes fair enough then I quote " They don’t want Eddie Howe. There’s talk of Mark Hughes. ??? WTF

Hows is it every time he pulls on his "blue" jersey every word from his mouth is like a steaming turd, How can you trust anybody who would spit in a childs face because the RS lost to act any better than the biased thug that he is - Shocking

This is the medias wider agenda for me to set our low standards for us, Not that Bill needs much help, Tossers

Jerome Shields
22 Posted 26/11/2019 at 10:51:57
The problem with the revolving door it allows the Manager to leave, but it has little affect on the atmosphere inside the Club.

Brands /Moshiri big failure is that nothing has changed on the internal football side of the Club. If a new Manager comes through the revolving door the atmosphere will not change in the Club and the same underlying issues will remain.

Everton will be back to the same now familiar situation as today within two years. Moshiri /Brands realise this , but there are no signs they have worked out why. Hence the eerie silence.

How do they keep their existing development plan on track?????

Eddie Dunn
23 Posted 26/11/2019 at 10:52:51
Derek, I wonder if that will be the case. Moyes apart, Kenwright might fancy Arteta or Cahill in some capacity. There might even be a Moyes/Cahill combo. I could imagine Bill getting enthusiastic over our talented ex-players returning to save us. can I hear music?
Sam Hoare
24 Posted 26/11/2019 at 10:53:06
Would anyone take Emery?

Not ideal to take someone on the back of failure but 2 years ago he was a very highly rated coach that many would have had near the top of our lists. He's won alot of trophies and his work at Sevilla especially was exceptional.

After his struggles at Arsenal he could very much be in our league and presumably would be desperate to show that he can succeed in the PL? Just a thought.

David Pearl
25 Posted 26/11/2019 at 10:54:07
If Silva hasn't been replaced by tomorrow then whats the plan? One more game or two? Are we going to let Silva get sacked after a heavy derby defeat or are we going to change things now and stop that from happening?

I can't believe Brands is anything more than head of player recruitment. If he is in charge of hiring and firing managers then expect our next manager to arrive injured and unable to coach for the first 6 weeks.

Ian Pilkington
26 Posted 26/11/2019 at 10:57:21
Another great article Lyndon, agree totally.
Peter Neilson
27 Posted 26/11/2019 at 10:57:39
Derek (20) yes that’s exactly what it looks like. Brands isn’t calling the shots over the replacement. There is now paralysis as Moshiri and Kenwright can’t agree. After initially being edged out Kenwright is very influential again.
Jerome Shields
28 Posted 26/11/2019 at 10:59:00
David #25

Brands as Director of Football and as a Board member to boot, is turning into a enigma.

Steve Brown
29 Posted 26/11/2019 at 11:00:41
The man with 73% of shares will decide after consulting his DoF... hopefully!

The weepy fella with 5% can nostalgically look back at the glory days when we managed a regular top half finish and zero trophies. The rest of us won’t.

David Pearl
30 Posted 26/11/2019 at 11:13:53
Jerome,

out of the blue question but are you the Jerome I went the Spurs games with a couple years ago? Koeman first game in charge.

John Raftery
31 Posted 26/11/2019 at 11:21:12
If the Board get this appointment wrong we will be having the same discussion before the end of January. A new manager will need to deliver points within the first few fixtures. If he starts with a couple of defeats, the fans will turn against him, the players will lose faith and the Board will get twitchy. We are seeing that happen at Watford who will shortly be looking for their third manager this season. Even a team in good form would find it difficult to win points at Leicester and the other place. That is why I can understand why the Board are holding fire until those matches are out of the way.
Kevin Prytherch
32 Posted 26/11/2019 at 11:22:00
I know it’s been mentioned (and scoffed at) on other threads...

Silva has proved in his time here that he sets his teams up to play better against a better standard of opposition. If he’s in charge throughout December then it might not be as bad as we fear.

However - regardless of results I would sack him before any easy looking games (might be difficult on the back of a couple of wins) as he has proved time and time again that he just does not learn against these teams.

It would take an owner with some balls to say “you’ve done well in December against the best, but you’re going anyway”.

Clive Rogers
33 Posted 26/11/2019 at 11:40:19
Peter, 27, if as you say, Kenwright is very influential again, we are screwed. We might as well give up.
Derek Knox
34 Posted 26/11/2019 at 11:41:45
Another very candid but sadly true article Lyndon, you seem to be working overtime in producing all these, at a time which is so frustrating for fans, and even more maddeningly a recurrent situation, which the fans have had no part whatsoever in it's making.

The longer the incompetence continues, the nearer our wonderful Club and fanbase are getting to the edge of that dreaded abyss.

What really beggars belief, and apologies to anyone reading, if I am repeating myself, is that Moshiri purportedly was our 'Fairy Godfather', which we had craved for so long.

Collectively rubbing our hands and expectancy levels at an all time high, in a relatively short space of time has turned from a dream to a nightmare.

How can someone who is a billionaire, and let's be honest, knew very little about Football, be so easily duped into squandering millions?

He didn't become a billionaire through unsound decisions and dodgy or poor/risky investments, whatever the commodity, the principle is surely the same.

If it is an area that can yield huge benefits, but you have very little knowledge about; surely you employ expert advisors in that field, not a lucky Theatre Impresario who has been lucky to, initially purchase a major share, then get a place on the Board of his boyhood Club. (oh those days in the boy's pen)

I just hope upon hope that some sanity in decision making, is made in the not too distant future, before we get to that point of no return.

Someone suggested a poll for us to vote on, who we TW, think would be the best fit as our next Manager, while I appreciate there would be a diversity of opinions, some 'totally illogical Captain' and assuming the majority agreed on a particular Candidate.

Maybe that could be somehow could be conveyed to the Board, who probably, in all reality would not directly act upon it, but at least we would have had our say!

Danny Broderick
35 Posted 26/11/2019 at 11:57:44
Am I right in thinking that Phillip Cocu (Derby County manager) was the manager of PSV when Brands was there? I’ve not seen him linked, but I would imagine if Brands was involved in choosing a replacement for Silva, Cocu’s name might come up. I think PSV won the league a couple of times with those 2 in charge. I don’t know the first thing about Cocu other than that. Derby are in the middle of the Championship, so he appears to have made no more than an average start at Derby...
Tom Bowers
36 Posted 26/11/2019 at 12:00:25
So Silva's record for the same timeline is almost a carbon copy Of Koeman's so why hasn't Silva gotten the axe yet considering everyone out there knows it's coming.
How can he be kept in charge for the next game if the board are considering a new guy and have told everyone ? Go figure !!
Mike Oates
37 Posted 26/11/2019 at 12:05:11
Difficult times ahead, sacking Silva and hiring Moyes ( assuming Kenwright gets his way) could well lead to Brands resigning if he’s not in agreement, which I don’t elieve he will be.

If he’s done his job properly Brands should have a short wish list of managers who could replace Silva. The availability of these managers is the difficult call at the present time, locked in to contracts themselves and put those issues together with our dreadful fixture list ahead of us and who will want to come. I’m absolutely sure Moyes wouldn’t be on that list. If Brands advice isn’t being listened to or followed or in the case of a Moyes appointment totally disregarded then Brands will quite rightly question his role at the club.

Terrible dilemma we’ve got ourselves in - compare it with the CEO of Spurs, Daniel Levy who managed the whole transaction within 24 hours and ensured Mourinho had West Ham and Olympiacos as first easy fixture to warm the fans to Mourinho. Well planned and executed, Everton !!, not even a plan ready

Jerome Shields
38 Posted 26/11/2019 at 12:11:43
David #30

No I wasn't at the Tottenham. We are bound to let sometime, we are use to share offering over years and will continue to do so.

Daniel A Johnson
39 Posted 26/11/2019 at 12:11:45
If they don't have a replacement then don't sack...…….that's the lesson Moshiri learned from sacking Koeman.

We don't know who's been approached or sounded out. Surely though the structure is Brands will make the recommendations and Moshiri decides after consulting Bill. It was easier for Spurs as their no 1 target was out of work so could be approached freely and quickly. After the Watford/Silva debacle I bet were being much more careful and discreet with our plotting/recruitment.

Such a massive shame for SIlva that after beating Southampton away we tripped up at home against Norwich. But that sums up Silva's reign he has an innate ability to constantly dig himself and his team into unnecessary holes.

I think Silva will be gone after the Merseyside derby. He's shown nothing but inconsistency and his team a total lack of fight.

David Pearl
40 Posted 26/11/2019 at 12:13:21
Mike, you can’t be that sure that Brands wouldn’t think Moyes is exactly what we need right now. Moshiri... hasn’t he picked the last 3 managers. He should go retire to a beach somewhere and just leave Bill his check book. I’d have more faith in Bill picking the next manager than Mosh. Has any proof been uncovered that Moshiri has a clue what he’s doing. People can spout all the want about BK. If Arteta isn’t available till summer just get Moyes in till summer so we can get rid of the worst manager we’ve had in recent memory.
Iain Latchford
41 Posted 26/11/2019 at 12:18:53
It looks to me like they are going to hang Silva out to dry. I think they are almost accepting defeats against Leicester and the RS, then a new manager will be appointed. I've no doubt the search is already on. It should have been weeks ago to be honest.
Derek Knox
42 Posted 26/11/2019 at 12:42:56
Iain, and others if we have to endure two matches, with little chance of picking up any points, then so be it.

Should a successor (whoever it maybe) be appointed immediately, he would struggle to acclimatise to Finch Farm, get to know the players, implement his tactics, take a few Training sessions etc, in such a short space of time.

Let alone achieve any points, unless he had Hogwarts Training, or was a fully paid up member of the Magic Circle.

We all want some form of action or at least a sign of positivity/information update from the Board, (chance would indeed be a fine thing) but the situation could still be rescued by a competent Coach.

Sorry to bring up contracts again, but surely if you have failed to deliver, miserably and dramatically, midway through a 3 year contract you are in breach, and therefore NOT entitled to any Compensation.

I can't imagine these contracts (but who knows for sure?) are simple ones, but in any walk of life or profession, apart from a severance of a few weeks pay, I can't think of any other situation where incompetence is rewarded in Millions.

I'm sure Paul the Esk knows a lot more than mere mortals like myself, in this area, and it may be worth an article on it's own, to enlighten us bewildered fans as to the vagueries and mysteries in general, as to how they are written up.

Matt Butlin
43 Posted 26/11/2019 at 12:51:43
I think the long and short of it is (given our form) whoever is the manager against Leicester and the RS, we're going to lose. It wouldn't make any sense to subject a new manager to unnecessary loses when you can lump it on the bloke you're going to get rid of and further strengthen your case. For me, we need someone who gives the players a clear picture of what their individual role is and how that contributes to the team overall (I know it's obvious but it's not happening at the minute). I don't think Eddie Howe would be a bad choice but he'd need time. Chris Wilder though, he strikes me as someone who could come in and organise us straight away and add a bit of desire that's missing. Plus over time, get us playing with a bit of swagger that everyone wants to see. He's Sheffield through and through... but money talks.
Jamie Crowley
44 Posted 26/11/2019 at 12:59:58
Good Morning. I see he's still here. Lovely. Have a nice day.
Derek Taylor
45 Posted 26/11/2019 at 13:14:33
SSN confirms, 'We are informed that Silva will remain in post whilst the Board considers the situation.' In other words, Moshiri and Kenwright haven't got a clue what to do as they are at odds with each other !

Fred Karno's !

Pat Kelly
46 Posted 26/11/2019 at 13:17:29
He's not going anywhere for the moment. It's going to have to get worse before it gets better. The Board have postponed the difficult decision until it becomes critical.
Tim Wardrop
47 Posted 26/11/2019 at 13:17:32
Just get Eddie Howe in. The job he's done at Bournemouth is incredible. Modern, visionary, highly respected by players and peers. And he's an Evertonian.

The only question mark is against his big name signings, but to be honest I'd rather he focus on getting the best out of the guys he has at his disposal now. Plus he has Brands to sign the players.

Get him in now - it's a no-brainer

Raymond Fox
48 Posted 26/11/2019 at 13:19:20
Who's to blame when results are poor, is it the manager, is it the players, is it bad luck?
Its very difficult to determine, each of us can probably come up with a different answer.
The manager is almost always the fall guy, but theres so many factors involved.
In our managers case, its the same man that was in charge of the team when they were beating almost every one in sight at the end of last season.
So whats changed, the players he has to pick from has, who do you blame for that? Him, Brands, Moshiri, take your pick.
We don't know the ins and outs inside the club so its only guesswork, but in my book Brands hasn't covered himself in glory, far from it.
Paul A Smith
49 Posted 26/11/2019 at 13:24:43
I wonder how many people there really is pretending to know what role Kenwright plays? Possibly the same amount of people that pretend to know Duncan Fergusons job description.

I always found it was better to focus on what we do know in these critical times.

Tim Wardrop, its a no brainer if you want another Silva, another Martinez, another manager that throws discipline into the bin and favours the possesion and pressing style with poor players. Eddie Howe should be perfect.

Mark Guglielmo
50 Posted 26/11/2019 at 13:34:35
Moshiri: Here's the keys to the car, Marcel, go win the race.

*car won't start*

Brands: Farhad, there's no gas in the car.

Kenwright (with full gas cans in each hand): Farhad, I've got gas.

Moshiri: Marcel, give the keys to Bill, he's driving.

/end scene

Derek Knox
51 Posted 26/11/2019 at 13:38:27
Derek @ 45, did SSN disclose who was wearing the Ginger wig and the red nose, and who was wearing the harlequined suit and white face? 👓😋
Derek Knox
52 Posted 26/11/2019 at 13:43:10
Pat K @ 46, It's not easy making decisions being a Board member of a successful Club, however they are considerably more straightforward at an unsuccessful Club. (which used to be successful) :-)
Tom Bowers
53 Posted 26/11/2019 at 13:49:45
There is no sure fire solution in the short term even if Silva is replaced. Maybe the ''dressing room'' outlook may improve if indeed it needs improving but there certainly looks on the field that there is a huge lack of confidence.
Until Dec. 31st. Everton have a really tough program on paper and are still likely to be without several players who may or may not have made a difference in recent weeks.
The defence when needed was a big let down on Saturday and has been shown wanting in many games before that and one expects if not to score then at least get a draw but as shown in many games they can't even do that.

Maybe a start to Iwobe and Kean will energize the team somewhat but so far under Silva neither has done the business.

It remains therefore a waiting game until the window opens to see if some class additions can be made because by that time I can see them in the bottom three.

Peter Neilson
54 Posted 26/11/2019 at 13:53:28
Clive (33) this an an article that covers Kenwright regaining his influence:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bill-kenwright-regains-influence-at-everton-but-owners-criticism-of-marco-silva-is-unhelpful-ft6kgnwtd

Rick Tarleton
55 Posted 26/11/2019 at 13:58:33
Agree totally with your points, Lyndon and agree with Jim Bennings that Moyes is a massive step backward. Kendall who first time round was a great manager, couldn't do it in his later spells. Moyes was cowardly and timid first time round and after failing everywhere since, I can't see how he is even in the picture.
Whether a top class continental would move to Goodison is problematic to say the least. Howe has done an amazing job at Bournemouth, but that doesn't mean he could do the same job at Everton. I'd prefer him to Silva, Hughes, Moyes et alia. If he could get either or both of Ake and Wilson to sign for us I'd welcome him with open arms.
Interesting times, yet again, at Goodison.
Jer Kiernan
56 Posted 26/11/2019 at 14:08:37
@47 Tim

It is a "no-brainer" for those of us that have one that is, I have been on championing Eddie's cause the last 2/3 days and funny how everybody that says NO to Eddie cant/never provide a viable alternative ? who has actually worked in PL and sustained success over a long period , Is so easy to be a nay-sayer , the work he has done at B/mouth has been nothing short of miraculous, Name me a manger who could get b/mouth into the Top four ( not gona happen)

Thats the posters who don't want Moyes (no comment) or even worse have a Sado masochist fetish with the RS which infers that the only manager (in a world full of them) we can get in, is THEIR most successful cast off ???

I can only think there is some weird psychologial shit going on here as his recent record stinks and hes won fckal in the last 10 years and is a hasbeen

Eddies the Man :)

John Pierce
57 Posted 26/11/2019 at 14:15:00
The whole point of the system is to say the manager is the dispensable part of it.
If Brands hadn’t got a replacement or three in the pipeline then that’s not really good enough.
The signs were there last season, Brands had to think it was a possibility this season. If this is Brands as a DoF then perhaps he’s not the real deal.

If Moshiri is interfering or not letting Brands do what he was brought to the club for then we are doomed.

Leaving the poor lad in charge when he knows he’s getting sacked is a new low for the club. Why should he or the players put any effort into a lost cause?

We feel paralyzed and completely unprepared for this outcome.


Jay Wood
[BRZ]

58 Posted 26/11/2019 at 14:22:00
Lyndon, I feel your (and your keyboard's!) pain.

Since Saturday, in keeping with the mood of the Evertonian diaspora, you've been delivering a new article on THE topic every 12 hours.

What Everton reduces you to, eh?

Evidently, like the rest of us, you are experiencing the roller-coaster of emotions all the fun of the Everton fair never fails to deliver.

Sadness. Frustration. Bewilderment. Exasperation. Anger. And everything in between.

It's coming up to four years since Moshiri took over the reins at Everton and for all the cosmetic changes, we still appear to be as dysfunctional a club as ever.

He SEEMS genuine in wanting to revive Everton's fortunes.

He personally cleared the club debt. Set up a more advantageous lender. Funded unheard of spending sprees. Is being meticulous in preparing the new stadium project. Bought the Liver Building and centred Everton's administration there. Reshaped the board 18 months ago. Hired a DoF with excellent credentials. Has not been shy in changing managers.

And yet...here we are, 3 days after Saturday's horror show v Norwich, and not one official whisper from the club on what is now a crisis.

Now some may interpret that as a positive. That there has not been any 'vote of confidence in the manager' club statement. Surely, if there was ROCK SOLID belief in the manager from the owner or the board, they would have issued such a statement by now.

But no. They have been as silent as the Sphinx.

And whilst (as reflected on these very pages) there has been lots of rumour and speculation, the one and only possible utterance we have heard from the decision makers was the reported comment from Moshiri as he was leaving his seat at the final whistle when confronted by angry fans: "We will have better days."

Even if that was genuinely uttered or not, it's not a lot to go on. Whether he believes those better days will be with or without Silva is open to interpretation.

Having been promoted to the board, Brands as DoF is surely the designated specialist on purely footballing matters, such as player and manager recruitment.

There is ample evidence he is meticulous in his methods with regard to player recruitment, even though he doesn't or can't always land every desired target. I have to assume he has a database of potential replacement managers to call on if needed.

If this isn't the case, then for me he is being negligent in a critical area of his remit.

Now Moshiri as the man picking up the tab in compensation to a dismissed manager and paying the salary of the incoming manager of COURSE has a major voice in this. But I would hope that is primarily restricted to the finances, rather than the footballing side of things.

A good leader, having appointed good section managers beneath him, should largely heed and accept recommendations they make. He should not be swayed or influenced by a token former company 'president' whose shareholding is now minimal and who is basically retained as a nostalgic link to the past, wheeled out for a photo opp or glib quote now and again.

To their credit, Everton has always been good at keeping stum and surprising us with unexpected deals for incoming players.

Maybe, just maybe, they are working like crazy behind the scenes and negotiating with Silva's replacement as we speak.

Equally likely, for some (to me) unfathomable reason the boardroom is split on whether to retain or dismiss Silva and stalemate and indecision has resulted.

Either way for me, everyone needs clarity on this, not least the players who face a very challenging December. If they intend to stick with Silva, fine! Come out and say it! If they are working to replace him, the silence is more understandable.

But I will repeat what I've said on other threads. A decision DOES need to be taken. You cannot determine that decision on the upcoming fixture list and think:

"No point in throwing a new man into that fixture list 'cos he'll have a baptism of fire and get off to a losing start."

Or alternatively, leaving Silva in situ to take the heat and further justify his dismissal with more defeats in the next 2-3 games.

Or more, putting in place a caretaker for 6 months with two-thirds of the season to play when we are only 5 points off 5th place. To do so is to passively sacrifice this season and our progress in two cup competitions.

There is a fair body of evidence now that Silva has not shown himself to be reliable or consistent enough in the performances and results his Everton team delivers.

For many it is no longer a question of if he should go, but rather when.

And when he does go, the board needs to be very careful in appointing a replacement that unites, rather than splits or alienates, the fan base from day one.

Conor McCourt
59 Posted 26/11/2019 at 14:25:46
Paul A Smith- I'm totally with you in terms of this continual revolving door. It seems like we keep going for the latest flavoured ice cream who actually has less substance than the last.

We sacked Martinez then replaced him with an inferior manager, then sacked Koeman for an even inferior manager. When I see the names put forward they just give me deja vu.

For me we either need to break the bank and get one of the few who would guarantee success i.e. Pochettino or a novice who could be special before he makes his mark.

That's why I nailed my colours to Arteta straight away because he may offer the chance of greatness, would unite the club and the players couldn't hide behind the man in the suit any longer as one clued in twebber had pointed out. I don't think our club will even consider the alternative option.

Dave Abrahams
60 Posted 26/11/2019 at 14:46:17
Paul (49), in your post at (18) you seem to be happy for Kenwright to make the decision on our, possible, new manager, then at (49)you wonder how much people know what role Kenwright plays at the club now, do you know how much influence he has at the club? Enough to decide the new manager? Just guessing but it seems from your posts that you would be happy for Moyes to come back.
Tony Abrahams
61 Posted 26/11/2019 at 14:47:09
It looks like someone has jammed the revolving door, but they just haven’t pulled the trigger yet.
Bobby Mallon
62 Posted 26/11/2019 at 14:52:23
Danny Broderick
We got a striker ( who given the chance will be as good as any out there that age) but he won’t play him so please stop going on about getting a striker
Mark Guglielmo
63 Posted 26/11/2019 at 14:53:11
Dave @60, neither. It's Brands fault.
Kevin Molloy
64 Posted 26/11/2019 at 14:59:12
most evertonians seem to be ruling out the return of Moyes on general principle. Fair enough. As long as we realise that if it's left to Marcel, and he gets it wrong, we get relegated. And if we get relegated, well, I wouldn't bet the farm on us coming straight back up. I accept there is no guarantee Moyes would keep us up, but I think most know that he's the best equipped (and by far the cheapest) to do an emergency salvage job over the next six months. so this objection to him cos of playing style or the colour of his hair, could cost the club it's top flight status. Just sayin
Christopher Timmins
65 Posted 26/11/2019 at 14:59:50
Surely the Director of Football has to be key in what happens next. It's got to be his call. There has to be a synergy between him and the manager for whom he is buying players. The next man in the door has to be his choice.

If we go into Sunday's game with Silva in charge it's not the end of the world if it results in the right course of action being subsequently taken. Who knows he might get a performance and it will allow him an opportunity to select a team that has a bit of pride and pace about it. I expect wholesale changes at the weekend no matter who is in charge.

Paul Tran
66 Posted 26/11/2019 at 15:01:03
The silence makes the water slightly less muddy.

The silence tells me that they're searching for/arguing over the next man, before they sack Silva.

I remember being regularly told on here during the Moyes years that all we needed was money, rather than my 'fancy' ideas of good management and recruitment.

When I lived in London, I used to do my Saturday punting at William Hill on Cricklewood Broadway. There was always a bloke in there handing a bundle of slips over the counter - he didn't know whether any of them had won. None of them ever did. Whenever I think of our club management I think of that bloke.

Andrew James
67 Posted 26/11/2019 at 15:02:28
I'd say no to Eddie Howe. There is a popular opinion that he would never go North anyway hence the unsuccessful stint at Burnley.

What he has achieved is admirable. Yet people portray the Cherries as an attacking side who play the "right way" (whatever that means but the media keep saying it).

My brother and I went to see them last season at Goodison and we were stunned at how much they foul, time waste and simulate. There was no free flowing attacking football. They looked just as defensive and negative as Palace or Brighton who are or were notorious for being compact and unambitious on the road.

As others point out, they go on losing streaks and when they concede goals, it can be heavy. They're now in their 5th season in the top flight and haven't really transitioned. There appears to be no commitment to going on a cup run and there's no pressure on Howe as they love him down there.

Maybe he could do much better with a bigger budget but I think trading a job with little pressure for us would be too much. He'd go from a job where he could probably survive relegation to one where we'd all be calling for his head for not taking the League Cup seriously or losing 3 on the bounce.

I find it interesting that southern sides like Brighton, Saints, West Ham and Palace have changed coaches annually yet none of them have ever seriously been in for Howe.

And remember, he has total control there. With us having Brands, it would be another obstacle.

Darren Hind
68 Posted 26/11/2019 at 15:05:11
I've improved my gambling strategy since then Paul.

I bet on line now... at least I now know if I've won.

Lynn Maher
69 Posted 26/11/2019 at 15:08:07
After Saturdays debacle at Goodison Park, I thought I'd just taken part in a bush tucker trial.
I'm an Evertonian. Get me out of here!
PLEASE
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

70 Posted 26/11/2019 at 15:17:57
Tony @ 61.

"It looks like someone has jammed the revolving door, but they just haven’t pulled the trigger yet."

Why did 'The Godfather' tune just pop into my head as I read that, Tony?!

Is this the new Everton Way?

"Make him an offer he can't refuse...or his wife will be a widow and his children orphans".

I like it!

Iain Latchford
71 Posted 26/11/2019 at 15:23:32
Jer, What would you say about Tony Pulis? Would you have ever considered him for the Everton job in the past? Kept Stoke up for a good few years, and even got them to the FA Cup Final.

Keeping a small side up amounts to "success" from what you are saying on here, and numerous other threads.

Rob Marsh
72 Posted 26/11/2019 at 15:24:14
Kunal Desai # 7

Should EFC go the way AVFC it would probably be the most expensive side in football top flight history to go that way.

I have noticed many times on here that most people seem to think we'll comfortably avoid this fate, this time around, well if December goes against us?

There will be 26pts that will need to be found from 18 games and at the moment we are averaging 1.1 pts per game, we need to find 0.34 pts extra per game. It's a tiny number that has proven impossible for nearly all once in the bottom 3.

I sincerely hope my negative attitude on this is wrong and all the confident ones are right.

Steve Bolderson
73 Posted 26/11/2019 at 15:28:59
The long standing issue here is one of culture. Whilst our competitors have moved on realising the footballing world has changed Everton have remained static, if not regressed. The appointment of DBB to CEO was a mistake, without taking away any of the good work executed for Everton in the Community and her subsequent roles it smacks of Kenwright and his misguided sentiment which is prevalent throughout Everton Football Club. Romanticism has no place in the modern game however Everton continue to wallow in it and will continue to do so - whilst Kenwright is a shareholder he’ll have Moshiri’s ear. Re-signing Rooney case in point.

Culture change starts at the top and filters down, under Kenwright’s stewardship he steadied the ship but whilst he and his ethos remains, we may find ourselves having the same conversation in 12 months’ time post Silva.

A significantly more ruthless approach is required both on and off the pitch that’s more befitting of a modern day football club, but with Kenwright as confidant to Moshiri this won’t happen. For all the good work Bill has done now’s the time for him to let go of the reigns fully to allow a real step change in direction to occur - The Revolving Door needs more than one person to exit from it.

Jer Kiernan
74 Posted 26/11/2019 at 15:31:18
@Iain 71
I am going to assume to your credit you are not seriously suggesting Pulis but just trying to compare one aspect that himself and Eddie have in common, He plays anti-football is unapologetic about it and is a balding version of FS

if you have a viable alternative I am waiting to hear it ? I have asked for it twice now ? Enlighten us please ?

If you gona say who it aint, You should also say who it am !!

Paul Tran
75 Posted 26/11/2019 at 15:36:34
Improved betting strategy and less chance of death from passive smoking, Darren. Don't miss those days at all!
Dave Ganley
76 Posted 26/11/2019 at 15:37:03
Well according to the red echo Silva will be in charge at Leicester. Nobody likes the revolving door however the likes of Moyes, Hughes names being thrown about is depressing to say the least. I'm always surprised that there is never a contingency plan at Everton. I'm not quite sure why I'm surprised given how the club appears to lurch from one disaster to another but there you go. Surely at any top level club there will be a plan if things go belly up for a manager? Just something in the pipeline for an emergency? Evidently not. This run of results and performances haven't come out of the blue, everybody could see it coming even if we do hope for the best and see silver linings that aren't there. The board just seem so unprepared for it or at least appear that way. How many bad runs are acceptable? How many games is acceptable? Maybe it woykd just be best if the board came out and issued a statement saying what our ambitions are, because as it stands, it appears to be that so long as we stay in the league then that's ok. We don't appear to have any illusions of troubling the top 6 or so, we maybe hope for a cup run and strong finish when nothing is riding on it. That would be far more acceptable than leaving me with unjustified optimism every season whereby I think it's our season, again, before having my eternal dreams shattered by game 4 or 5. As it is, year after year successive boards have been content to drift along whilst supporters come full of optimism year after year. Yes I accept that I'm a sucker each year!

So the point to this is how bad is enough? It's not good enough to me for people to say other clubs are just as bad, I'm not interested in other clubs, only Everton. For me, that 3 month run last season was unacceptable for Everton. We, as a club should never accept that kind of run whoever is manager. So after giving him the benefit of the doubt due to his first season, we finished ok. Expecting to carry on the decent form into the new season, we have been pretty awful. The loss of Gana and Zouma shouldn't have destabilised the team to this extent. He had all summer and preseason to work out a plan. It's been terrible and we are now nearly into December. Again this kind of run should never be acceptable as the level of performance and commitment or lack thereof shouldn't be acceptable but apparently is. Our standards are shocking and keep getting lower.

So we drift along again, the board hoping a win somewhere will give them a chance to say the corner has been turned. It's a shite state of affairs now, even the gobshites have stopped thinking we are significant enough to take the piss out of, we are nothing but a laughing stock.

We wont get a top level manager now, we are too damaged I think. Maybe Arteta/Cahill team would be good for us. At least they will bring a bit of fire and pride to the shirt. As it stands it's just painful being a blue.

Iain Latchford
77 Posted 26/11/2019 at 15:37:23
Jer, I said yesterday I'd take Arteta, or a caretaker until the summer, when the right person may be available. Just because you don't agree that doesn't make you right.

I'm trying to establish what you regard as "success"? Pulis achieved the same (probably more), than Howe has.

Just because the right candidate isn't currently available, it doesn't mean we should automatically appoint another one that isn't suitable. I don't understand why you can't see that.

Rob Halligan
78 Posted 26/11/2019 at 15:37:48
I'm just waiting for someone to mention Neil Warnock (God help us) as he's now available after leaving Cardiff city a couple of weeks ago.
Rob Halligan
79 Posted 26/11/2019 at 15:39:38
By the way, that's not me mentioning Neil Warnock.
Kevin Molloy
80 Posted 26/11/2019 at 15:42:01
lightening the mood a little, after the reaction of the fans at the weekend, the players now know Marco is a busted flush, so the chances of him getting a tune out of them at Leicester is close to zero. So, we go into an Anfield Derby under lights with a sound thrashing just banked, and with the knowledge on both sides that we denied them their championship last year. It's gonna be an absolute bloodbath
Dave Abrahams
81 Posted 26/11/2019 at 15:45:12
Rob (79), Neil Warnock, the very poor man’s Sam Allardyce, If Neil gets the job he can take all the criticism in the world, just like water off a ducks back, one of the most disliked men in football, so I’ve been told by a few in the game.
Mike Gaynes
82 Posted 26/11/2019 at 15:46:04
Sam #24, yes, I'd take Emery in a minute, but with reservations as to how far he could take us. He's apparently quite autocratic in his dealings with players.

That worked well at Sevilla, with an undertalented squad that always overachieved, but failed at PSG and now at Arsenal, where there's far more expensive talent that doesn't like to be shouted at. And some of his personnel decisions (Xhaka as captain? Really?) have been head-scratchers.

I think he'd get the best out of our current squad and certainly improve our performance and position, but he'd have a limited shelf life.

James Hughes
83 Posted 26/11/2019 at 15:46:50
Rob, good of you to suggest Neil warnock :-)

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

84 Posted 26/11/2019 at 15:49:04
Genuinely curious, Jer.

Why do you continue to insist anyone who says 'no' to Howe is obliged to put up a 'viable' alternative, as if failing to do so invalidates their opinion?

It's a complete non sequitur.

You have been given a number of 'viable' reasons why some posters are wary of him. You haven't made a very good case in support of him at all.

He seems a nice fellah. I understand he interviews well and was being seriously considered by Southampton, he impressed so much with his presentation, before they appointed Pochettino.

But you cannot glibly dismiss his truly awful defensive record in the PL as you did yesterday as being down to the 'open attacking game' he plays. It's not a credible counter-argument.

Paul Jones
85 Posted 26/11/2019 at 15:52:54
Rob Hallghan

I see your Neil Warnock and raise you... Steve McClaren.

John Kavanagh
86 Posted 26/11/2019 at 15:53:47
Come Sunday I've a horrible feeling that our brilliant away support will be singing 'Your possibly getting sacked in the erm fullness of time - maybe next year'.

Showbiz impressario Bill Kenwright will provide the tune so long as someone else is paying in line with the past practice.

Derek @51. As in 'IT' our clowns aren't funny, they're very, very scary. Unless you are the rest of the football world, of course, which is finding them hilarious.

Paul Tran
87 Posted 26/11/2019 at 15:54:14
What about John Beck? Is he still around?
Paul Tran
88 Posted 26/11/2019 at 15:56:14
Top post, John. 'Sacked in the New Year' would fit the tune perfectly.
Kristian Boyce
89 Posted 26/11/2019 at 15:58:11
The Silva debacle is highlighting a just as serious issue of a complete split on a boardroom level. With Bill still lingering and making decisions whilst going back on his promise of less involvement, the club will never move forward. This is evident with Brands still not having full control on all football related matters. The rumoured names of Hughes and especially Moyes, and Kenwright still championing him in the press shows that Bill still doesn't want to relinquish control of decisions at the club.

It's clearly evident that Morshiri doesn't want the full hands on role of chairman, and wants a football man in that job. This is the nightmare scenario that most of us envisioned. Bill got his wish of a wealthy investor, and he still has his hands on the reigns. I also have a feeling why Kenwright is still there is that the new stadium is more than likely to get the go ahead. Bill wants to be chairman seen leading the club into the 'promised land' and with all the drama and spectacle that goes online with it.

Say that though, I wouldn't be surprized that we'll see another large purchase of shares by Morshiri in the new year, and hopefully the removal of Kenwright as chairman. While Morshiri's managerial choices haven't been stellar, Brands was brought in to deal with that side. Once he's actually allowed to do that, I'm hoping for a complete change in fortune.

John Kavanagh
90 Posted 26/11/2019 at 16:01:46
Paul @88. 'You're getting sacked maybe next week' will fit better with current tune if Blue Bill won't cough up.
Mike Doyle
91 Posted 26/11/2019 at 16:02:02
I'm starting to feel sorry for Marco.

He's subjected to a torrent of media noise suggesting his imminent departure

Meanwhile the relentless silence from the Everton Board (not even the dreaded 'vote of confidence' ) is becoming more embarrassing with each day

... I was expecting news of an initiative from EiTC to distract us - but nothing!

Bill Gall
92 Posted 26/11/2019 at 16:18:50
What a scary scenario, i read this morning that Moshiri and B.K. are deciding who to get as a manager. Moshiri is leaning towards M.Hughes, while keep it in the family B.K. want D.Moyes. What a sign of lack of ambition for Everton F.C. with this line of thinking I am surprised T.Pullis name hasn't cropped up.

We as supporters understand that this is a difficult decision to make but some of the names being thrown around are simply signs of grasping at straws.

If they are going to fire Silva make sure he is replaced by someone who understands the modern game,is more than capable of building a team, not afraid to use young players and have a good record of game management.

My understanding of the managerial position at Everton F.C. is the owner and board want to fire Silva but don't have a clue who they can get at the moment, and are just looking for someone till the end of this season.

My own opinion would be not to hire a previous manager who a large number of supporters do not want, as it took him a couple of seasons to get Everton in a respectful position and was not very complimentary to the club after he left.
I don't now if Hughes will except a temporary position till the end of the season, and the only thing that may happen is new managers usually change things around with favorable results.

The stark reality is Silva has left this club in the biggest mess it has ever been in, with the option of,
if the owner and board are truly, as they try to tell us,
ambitious, then they will either have to hire a temporary manager till the end of the season or keep
(i expect to get shot for saying this ) Silva and have a suitable manager lined up for next season.

To the owner. You became owner of Everton F.C. with a lot of exiting promises and to fulfill these promises takes a great deal of responsibility, one of these responsibilities it is ensure the correct knowledgeable people are in position to advise you on the playing side of the club.

The business side of the club appears to be run efficiently, but the playing side, whether you have been given the wrong information, or you have thought you new more than the personnel you hired, is letting the club down badly.
This is the area that needs the most attention, you need to listen to football people who have been involved in the playing coaching and management side of things not directors that just watch the game.

Take a look at the comments made by one of Everton F.C. great chairman Mr J. Moore as an example of leadership.

Jer Kiernan
93 Posted 26/11/2019 at 16:26:32
@ Iain
"Just because you don't agree that doesn't make you right." I never said I was right I am just debating the points, as are you with your comparison to Pulis etc etc

I am open also to a caretaker also depending on whom, if we can at least stay safe from the drop which is not a given, I posted on Arteta on another thread I just cannot see it,

As regards what I deem success I very much would see what Eddie has achieved in management at bmouth (taking all things into acount) as being worthy of a "crack" at a Top club,

Holding a clipboard and nodding at Pep not so much for me

@Jay

As discussed yesterday with yourself if you chose not to put forward a name that is fine ,you will agree though "somebody" has to be manager ? I am suggesting Eddie and trying to back that up with why, One of the main reasons is he is Viable option so am genuinely interested if somebody thinks NO to Eddie and comes up with reasons why not , they could use that minute to suggest somebody as we cannot leave the post vacant

if not willing to indulge is up to themselves but I wil continue to ask

Sam Hoare
94 Posted 26/11/2019 at 16:28:05
Jer Kiernan, are you actually Eddie Howe? Your insistence on him is hard to justify if not.

He's a candidate for sure but certainly not the only one. He did a good job getting Bournemouth promoted and keeping them in the league but for the last two and half season they have not progressed beyond midtable (not talking about top 4) despite having big transfer spends and mid-table wages; so none of that shoestring mythology please.

In terms of alternatives many have been mentioned but here are my favourite 8: Arteta, Adi Hutter, Marco Rose, Gallardo, Ten hag, Marcelino, Wilder, Nagelsmann. Sure Howe might be on or around that list but he is certainly not the only candidate and i've not see him do much over the last 2 years to suggest he'd be a cert to lift us up the table.

Liam Reilly
95 Posted 26/11/2019 at 16:30:23
I dunno where people (including Carragher) are getting this 'Boardroom Battle' nonsense from. Moshiri owns 75% of the club right; so there is no battle!

Some things are clear;
- There's no available credible candidate other than Poch who is being apparently considered for Bayern so, realistically unlikely to happen
- Moshiri has been burnt before by relieving a Manager of his duties whilst having no alternative lined up; so he's obviously reluctant to pull that trigger also
- Moshiri has played the 'interim' Manager card before with Allardyce and it proved expensive having to pay for 18 months for a 6 months contract
- Does he really want to go after a Manager who is currently serving the PL or Championship and go through all the legal processes again?

So stick with Silva and hope he can turn things on their head like he did last season when few thought he could get the team playing well before he took are of United, Chelsea and Arsenal.

Hope lingers on anyway.

Steve Ferns
96 Posted 26/11/2019 at 16:32:06
Sam, on your list, Ten Haag is head and shoulders above the rest, with a caveat that he's never really had to get in the trenches and that'd be the first thing he'd need to do at Everton. With how Ajax are going right now, I think he can't be persuaded by money as he is likely to get a big offer in the summer, come what may and may as well see his project through.

Marcelino is intriguing and available. Not really watched his sides so studiously but I've enjoyed watching them play. I think Silva's squad may be one he can work with without many changes and that would be a big plus. Being too like Silva would be a negative for many.

Arteta is certainly someone I can get behind.

Mike Doyle
97 Posted 26/11/2019 at 16:35:19
Liam, other than your first point I agree with your analysis.
The concern I guess is that if correct - and it's all about Moshiri - where does Marcel Brands fit in to the process?
Jay Harris
98 Posted 26/11/2019 at 16:36:59
Jer,
I have to say IMO Eddie Howe is an English version of Silva.

What we really need is an English version of the young Mourhino or an experienced man who has the strength to tell the board and Brands how we need the playing side to run.

We should be looking at Poccettino, Ancelltoti, Ten Hag, NAgelsman, Marcelino etc as our "A" list.

We are acting like a championship side considering the likes of Hughes, Moyes etc. and to continue with Silva is an absolute disgrace and embarassment.

Steve Ferns
99 Posted 26/11/2019 at 16:37:06
Mike, Brands should be front and centre and the likes of Kenwright should stay out of it. Moshiri should have the only say, and he should be going with the advice of Brands, whatever that is. Otherwise, what is the point of Brands being on the board?
Steve Ferns
100 Posted 26/11/2019 at 16:39:04
Jay, only Marcelino and Pochettino are available on your list. Ten Haag and Nagelsmann are unlikely to move until the summer. Probably next summer for Nagelsmann. Ancelotti is likely to be available in a few weeks if the Napoli situation worsens.
Derek Knox
101 Posted 26/11/2019 at 16:40:26
John @ 86, I know what you mean, I think the whole situation at Everton now from top to bottom is making us the fans, Coulrophobic.

I don't believe we deserve any of this at all, if you look at the away and home support, week in, week out it is an almost undying, undeserved and misplaced loyalty in it's present state.

As I have said many a time, the Everton fanbase are pretty knowledgeable, but have had no say whatsoever in the present car crash state of affairs.

Jer Kiernan
102 Posted 26/11/2019 at 16:50:17
@Sam 94

I would consider Wilder but my only fear is he may struggle with the "type" of player we have here, the guys he has at brammal lane are good in character

He sends out all the right noises though, and recently was quoted as saying about his players something like "I am not going to credit them for running about thats what we pay them for I will credit them for playing good football"

Ten Haag is not a goer for me he will have to many options
I am not Eddie Howe just being overly vocal on his possible appointment and have too much time on my hands this week, Sorry if I am swamping the forums

@Jay 98

Is funny but the guys you list was very much the type of arguement and list I was advocating when Koeman was fired ( I wanted us to aim high) but I have lowered my expectations i have to admit, As I said if you offer me Simeone or Eddie I would take Simeone but I am trying to be pragmatic also

Silva would not have lasted at B/mouth for more than a couple of seasons at best

Sam Hoare
103 Posted 26/11/2019 at 16:54:24
Steve@96, I suspect one of the reasons Brands and the board are hesitating is because there are not many obvious fits to slot in right away. Most on my list would probably not be available till next summer and that's why an interim manager may appeal. I think i'd prefer Nagelsmann to Ten Hag but both will probably have more glamourous suitors.

The list of (reasonably appropriate) unemployed managers who could walk right in is something like: Marcelino, Allegri, Spaletti, Moyes, Hughes, Kovac, Blanc, Hughton, Quique Setien, Javi Gracia.

Think the only ones I'd like from that list are Marcelino or Allegri. Maybe Kovac.

Jay Harris
104 Posted 26/11/2019 at 16:59:14
Jer,
I understand where youre coming from but my opinion is you have to aim high and do your best to persuade the best to come to you.

Its only a few years since Spurs were below us but look at their ambition and then compare it to ours.

If you think like a small club and act like a small club then you will be a small club.

Steve Ferns
105 Posted 26/11/2019 at 17:01:39
Do you think Nagelsmann will leave? I think he's likely to stay at Leipzig for 24 months at least. Unless it's to a massive club.

What makes you think Allegri would go down well? Don't you think he's quite negative and with our squad is likely to be even more so?

Hasn't the scathing criticism of Kovac put you off him?

Jay Harris
106 Posted 26/11/2019 at 17:02:19
Steve, totally agree with your point about Brands but how do you keep Kenwright out of the argument. He loves to control and manipulate.
Sam Hoare
107 Posted 26/11/2019 at 17:05:18
Steve, I'm not sure Allegri would go down well. But he's a good manager. I also think that the fans might prefer a manager who gets us organised now rather than someone who wants flair and goals. Difficult to predict.

Ultimately the fans want to see us getting points and results. I'm certainly not a massive Allegri fan but out of that list he'd be one of the better managers in my opinion.

Steve Ferns
108 Posted 26/11/2019 at 17:07:01
No idea Jay, never met the man. I think if I was Moshiri I would be able to control him in a boardroom situation, but I don't know what Moshiri is like a boardroom situation either. He must have a forceful personality to get where he is. I would be continually encouraging people to talk at appointed times and telling Kenwright we, the lay people, have to trust in the experts.

I want to keep Silva, no surprise there, but if Brands was my man and told me a list of reasons why he had concluded Marco should be gone, I would sack him. Honestly, I would. You have to go with the expert here. If you don't then what's the point? How can non-football people know more than the football person, no matter how big a fan you are?

Jer Kiernan
109 Posted 26/11/2019 at 17:11:36
@ Jay 104
Not going to argue with any of that if only the board would act same, My championing of Eddie probably comes from a reaction to some of the horror shows being mentioned this week

If we get a Top drawer manager Poch, Simeone, Ten Haag I will gladly put aside my opinions, my fear is Rafa or even worse Moyes ( but with a fans favourite Cahill, Arteta so as to deflect any criticism in a cynical ploy by BK )

But I would not be surprised if Eddie when he gets his opportunity at a Top club does not succeed

Conor McCourt
110 Posted 26/11/2019 at 17:14:01
Jer your dismissal of Arteta as a clipboard holder is very harsh. There are numerous reasons why I think he should be a serious candidate:

1- He is second in command to one of the greatest managers in history.It's not just his winning mentality but moreover his ability to change games, systems, to think outside the box which Arteta has a vital role in.
For the best part of two decades we complain about no plan b. At City they think of b,c and d in the one game.

2-We have tried the percentage football, the slow paced possession, park the bus, all with no success. At City they play with high intensity, high press football which I've no doubt Arteta would take here.

3-Born leader; was captain as a player and always produced when the pressure was on, I doubt that would change from the sidelines.

4-He gets us, he knew how and when to get Goodison rocking, he knows what we expect and what's unacceptable and he loves the club as you could see in an interview how hurt he was by the crowds reaction when he left. He talks about his career and achievement when at Arsenal but his love when he speaks of us.

5-The players won't be able to throw Arteta under the bus.

6- Unity of club: for too long we have been infighting and pulling in different directions. His appointment would see a level of goodwill and excitement and patience that we haven't seen before.

7-making players better: Guardiola credits him for the turnaround in Sterlings finishing. Could you imagine the player Iwobi Bernard or DCL would be if they could do the same

Paul A Smith
111 Posted 26/11/2019 at 17:15:50
Dave Abraham, it might look that way at a glance (and I don't want any of the former managers back) but tell me who has had more success with managers?

I was well glad to see Martinez go in the end after being one to be happy he was our manager. It ended bad but nobody can deny he achieved far more than Moshiri's choices?

Kenwright was a total soppy clown to me but I still remember the few good things that happened. The summer he got Barry and Lukaku for Martinez was probably our best window in the premiership.

This is all based on fans saying he is involved in choosing the manager etc. I don't believe he is but if the board is split, would I be silly to favour Moshiri's choice?

Paul Tran
112 Posted 26/11/2019 at 17:17:48
What a web of intrigue, eh Steve. Chairman finds a buyer but can't resist back seat driving. Owner finds a proven DoF, but remembers his last one so feels impelled to intervene. DoF beginning to realise what he's got himself into.

Or maybe the negotiations are taking longer than they thought, or they're just cocking them up, like they seem to with everything else?

Steve Ferns
113 Posted 26/11/2019 at 17:20:15
Paul, I think Moshiri does not want to sack Silva. He wants to give him more time. We'll never know what Brands thinks, but his opinion is the one to trust here.
Paul Tran
114 Posted 26/11/2019 at 17:31:24
Agreed Steve, I'm guessing Moshiri wants to give his man as long as possible, for pride & financial reasons. And Brands is the one looking for a much-needed replacement.

Paul A Smith
115 Posted 26/11/2019 at 17:51:04
Maybe if we are in the relegation zone his compensation is less?
Maybe Moshiri has said we feel you deserve a little more time because injuries have been bad on the team and you haven't had the players needed to move forward?
Maybe he said one more and you're off lad?

Who knows? One thing I do know is - I want it to turn around so I have to support everyone involved until it changes and hope for the best.

Jer Kiernan
116 Posted 26/11/2019 at 17:52:45
@Conor 110

Fair enough it was a bit harsh I retract and acknowledge he was a great player for us and as I recall had a few opportunities where he could have jumped ship and didnt

He will have learned a great deal from a great manager but I just don't feel the jump from 2nd to head coach has historically worked over a sustained period for many (Mourinho aside), I don't believe it just rubs off you either have it or not,

On the flip side I also feel Eddie deserves his chance he has had to earn it the hard way regards management and has served his apprentiship, I also really feel there is alot of goodwill for him in both the game and at our club so he will defo Unite us

Would prefer Mikel to spread his wings at a lower club before we take a punt

If we put in a manager with no experience and things go bad we could go down

Mark Guglielmo
117 Posted 26/11/2019 at 17:58:55
For the ten Heg shouts, let's see, Bayern Munich made a very serious inquiry the moment they parted ways with Kovac. Ajax said we aren't against it, but it will have to wait for summer. Bayern was perfectly content with that.

Given that, what do you think Everton's chances are at changing Ajax's mind?

Dave Abrahams
118 Posted 26/11/2019 at 18:16:04
Paul (111), I’d be appalled if I thought Moshiri was allowed to choose any of the managers, on his own knowledge of football, same applies to Kenwright, they must have asked or been given that advice by people close to them.

The reason why I asked if you would be happy for Kenwright to choose the new manager is that I find it amazing he still has any say in big decisions at Everton, never mind that he has the football savvy to make such a decision, the same could be said for Moshiri in relation to football savvy.

As for who makes that decision, only Brands, to my knowledge, has the football brain for that.

Dave Abrahams
119 Posted 26/11/2019 at 18:19:27
My last line in the above post (118) applies to those who presently sit on Everton’s board of directors.
Paul A Smith
120 Posted 26/11/2019 at 18:25:03
According to Sky just now Dave he doesn't mate but like I said I just like to focus on what I know or can prove.

It wouldn't be extreme at all to think Moshiri talks to him on all matters as proper business practice but I think the Silva situation from start to finish shows you what voice matters most.

Its not extreme for them to all have different ideas of what we need either.
People all over the country think Kenwright and Moyes worked well together. I don't want the man near the dugout but I can see why Kenwright would. I just don't agree with it.

Moshiri may now feel in Brands he has a man more knowledged in the search for a coach so I wouldn't bank on Kenwrights influence being a problem. Plus he won't argue with Moshiri, I find that very unlikely?

The press will paint what they like, I don't believe much media but sky will always have someone close to Alan Myers that will be close to the truth.

Paul A Smith
121 Posted 26/11/2019 at 18:43:05
The media love it and it bores me. There is always an assumed list of names. Them names need a little story to go with them.

Last years stories In the Silva chase were "Kenwright favours Dyche". So why any other board member would have even bothered arguing the toss when we knew months before, Silva was Moshiri's man it seems very unlikely?

Anyway, a year on their story is "Kenwright Favours Moyes", no mention of Dyche in Kenwrights favour now. Moyes TV work doing wonders for his managerial prospects it seems while Dyche working wonders at Burnley is meaningless in comparison.

What a load of bull they try to feed us.

Derek Knox
122 Posted 26/11/2019 at 18:50:18
Paul A S, " What a load of bull they try to feed us ".

True, but the secret is not to eat it, by all means chew it over, but definitely don't swallow it!

Paul A Smith
123 Posted 26/11/2019 at 19:45:19
Definately Derek. Do not digest.
Dave Abrahams
124 Posted 26/11/2019 at 19:47:03
Paul (120) I can understand Moshiri talking to Kenwright certainly, but when it comes to football, he should have learnt by now to turn a deaf ear, not that he knows a great deal himself, but should know who to listen to.

As for the media Paul, they have to make a living and most of them don’t really put a lot of effort into digging for a proper story or telling one, although I know one or two who were genuine people, but most of them or nearly all of them rely on contacts and pay for information, which ( sometimes) is close to the truth.

Conor McCourt
125 Posted 26/11/2019 at 19:48:27
Jed 116- the issue I have is with how we are appointing our managers. The successful with lower premier teams attitude hasn't borne fruit.

In theory I like Howe and considered him along with Rodgers when we appointed Marco but he does remind me of Roberto and I feel we need a more uniting voice, we need to evolve and not revolve.

I disagree that appointing Arteta would put us in danger of relegation as I feel we were always going to improve second half of the season after the window we had. We have also had VAR, poor management decisions and key injuries which haven't helped. I've no doubt Brands and Moshiri will want to back the new man in key areas in January where we failed in the summer as they may fear becoming the next under fire.

The reason why I feel it must be now to appoint Mikel as if he does go to a lower team and rip it up he would be Guardiolas heir apparent and we would have missed the boat.

We have continually went cheap and safe and got burnt...now is the time to be brave or bold...Arteta or Pochettino.

Laurie Hartley
126 Posted 26/11/2019 at 20:11:17
My view is that Moyes would be here by now if it was going to be him - so it is not going to happen (please). Hughes no way - not Moshiri’s cup of tea.

I have a gut feeling they are talking to a heavy hitter. I don’t think it will be Poch - suspect he will end up at United in the new year.

Mike Doyle # 91 - I have posted before that for anyone to get the sack is a serious business but this is the life football managers choose and they know that getting hired and fired is a big part of it. They are also very well rewarded for taking on that pressure so don’t feel too bad for Marco. He is young so if it happens he will get over it and pop up somewhere else to have another go.

As for who Moshiri is taking advice from (because he should be) I hope that this is the moment that Brands steps up to the plate and asserts his authority as DOF.

From what I have seen, heard and read about him in various interviews etc I don’t think he is a spin doctor.

I am hoping we are in for a pleasant surprise. We could do with something to lift us.


Rob Halligan
127 Posted 26/11/2019 at 20:16:04
Good post, Laurie. I read that Moshiri is not too keen on kenwrights love child, perhaps he saw the graffiti on the walls at Goodison yesterday.
Ray Roche
128 Posted 26/11/2019 at 20:20:12
Rob, Graffiti? What’s that about?
Mark Guglielmo
129 Posted 26/11/2019 at 20:22:51
Laurie @126 I can't confirm it, but I'm somewhat sure that Poch cannot go to another EPL team this season or he'd void his buyout.

What heavy hitter is your gut telling you? I'm intrigued to find out!

Rob H @127 if he saw that graffiti I should hope his only thought was "that's disgusting and I'm extremely disappointed in our fanbase."

Ray @128 some utter d-bag spraypainted "SILVA OUT" on the walls of Goodison.

Ray Roche
130 Posted 26/11/2019 at 20:24:17
Thanks Mark, I didn’t know that.
Derek Knox
131 Posted 26/11/2019 at 20:25:45
Rob, hope you didn't sign that graffiti mate. 👓😋
Mark Guglielmo
132 Posted 26/11/2019 at 20:26:14
You're welcome Rob, it really irked me. I don't like Silva either, but he's a human being in addition to a professional football manager (even if the latter is in question lol). He's got a family, etc.

The picture has been spread all over the internet. Just really poor taste.

Anthony Murphy
133 Posted 26/11/2019 at 20:27:18
True Laurie, or maybe what we are seeing is a compromise of sorts? Maybe Mosh has said ‘let’s give him 2 more games, if no improvement Bill, give your mate Moysie a bell’

Hope not, but I don’t think it’s impossible just yet that Moyes is totally out the equation.

Laurie Hartley
134 Posted 26/11/2019 at 20:29:04
Conor # 125 - you are making a very good case for Arteta.

He has spent a big chunk of his footballing life learning from two of the best in the business - Wenger and Guardiola.

They are also made of stern stuff where he comes from.

Tony Abrahams
135 Posted 26/11/2019 at 20:32:24
Managers only get the sack if their team is not playing well, and with 28 minutes on the clock, Mourinho has already taken off a defensive midfielder with his team losing 2-0 on his home debut.

Rob Halligan
136 Posted 26/11/2019 at 20:32:46
Derek, as if I'd do that.

I signed DK!!

Joe McMahon
137 Posted 26/11/2019 at 20:34:15
Ive tried to insert the Graffit but can't get it to do. In a nutshell it only says what most of us think and Kenwright/Moshiri cannot ignore it.

https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/moron-s-of-the-highest-order-goodison-graffiti.108718/

Bill Gall
138 Posted 26/11/2019 at 20:42:57
I have to apologize, in my comments at #92 I left the s off the spelling of Mr J Moores. surprised no one pulled me up for it.
Ken Kneale
139 Posted 26/11/2019 at 22:19:47
Bill we knew who you meant. Mr John would have had rather a lot to say I suspect, very little of it complimentary. He was self made, knew how to run a business and insisted on proper practise and value for money in all aspects of operation whilst having a ruthless desire to succeed. Those qualities are not commonly associated with the regimes of the last 30 years.
Mark Guglielmo
140 Posted 26/11/2019 at 23:02:38
Joe @127. Preeeettttty sure they know what most supporters think.

Do you condone 1) graffiti on the walls of Goodison, and/or 2) fuck Silva & his family because he's a bad manager?

Laurie Hartley
141 Posted 27/11/2019 at 08:23:18
Mark # 129 - I haven’t got a clue who they might be talking to - pure speculation on my part. Having said that I wouldn’t be disappointed if it was Diego Simone. We need to learn how to defend.

As far as Poch and United is concerned - his buy out is £12m+. If United want him, they won’t let that get in the way.

Anthony # 133 - I am sure you will understand when I say I hope you are wrong.

Ray Roche
142 Posted 27/11/2019 at 08:34:57
Ken, Bill, I think he’d be more upset at being called “Mr” and not “Sir”!
Paul A Smith
143 Posted 27/11/2019 at 12:19:20
Mark, have a day off, mate – you're like a school teacher. I'm sure Silva is dead worried about Grafiti he won't even get to see, after having 15,000 of his own supporters chanting against him.
Mark Guglielmo
144 Posted 27/11/2019 at 14:30:22
Laurie, Simeone would be quite the coup! Though I believe he's the highest paid manager in the world not named Pep Guardiola.

Paul the point was a rather simple one that shouldn't require a teacher to explain. Silva is acutely aware of how the fans think, as you just noted. Piling on with a display of graffiti on Goodison is unnecessary and disgusting. Not sure why you think Silva or his family wouldn't have seen it given how quickly it spread on social media. You may not participate on those platforms but millions do.

Paul Cherrington
146 Posted 27/11/2019 at 16:38:57
The revolving door of managers should have stopped when we got Allardyce in – who at least knew how to make us hard to beat, got us defending well, and got us playing with some passion. He also got us well up the table from where we were when he took over. But oh no, those fans who wanted him out before a ball was kicked because of his weight or how he looks got their wish and he was gone.

To be replaced by someone far worse but a more popular choice at the time in Marco Silva. Just shows that some fans don't know football at all. And now they start again by writing people like Moyes off if they get the nod before a ball is kicked.

How abuot giving whoever the new guy is some support for a change and not only if fits some idealistic notion of an international playboy type who speaks 10 languages and has great hair while speaking English no-one can really understand and sends his team out to play the much-vaunted 'attacking' football? Why not prize someone who can get us results and get us up the table – however it happens?

Laurie Hartley
147 Posted 28/11/2019 at 08:08:15
Paul # 146 - your post merited a response. It looks like you have silenced us ( that is of course unless I am the only one who read it) ;)

Paul A Smith
148 Posted 28/11/2019 at 10:27:42
Paul is absolute spot on. Anyone arguing against is just a hater and nothing else. We see a lot of that here and the reasons to go with it are often nonsense.

The obsessed still say "that brand of football", that cheesey popular line, when they watched Koeman struggle with the same players and Allardyce was stuck with no full backs and Calvert Lewin up front, went to Anfield played 442 and got the best result we had there in ages.

It was an absolute disgrace how he was judged.

Steve Ferns
149 Posted 28/11/2019 at 10:38:29
Allardyce should have been banned from football when he was removed as England manager. How can he be unfit to be England manager but fit to manage other teams? The guy is an absolute disgrace and should never have had anything to do with Everton Football Club.
Trevor Peers
150 Posted 28/11/2019 at 10:54:13
Steve #149
Clough allegedly took bungs as did Redknapp, George Graham and a few others who got away unscathed, it was an OTT reaction to someone who at least knew what he's doing, even if it isn't very pretty.
Time should of been taken when Allardyce was in charge to get the right man, before we got rid. There's seems to a self destructive inverted snobbery about the club, A belief we belong at the top without earning the right to be there.
We have tried to modernize the club with a succession of second rate foreign managers, when only the best could come anywhere near achieving it. Maybe the best of British would be a better option for us at the moment, have a look at Leicester.
Paul A Smith
151 Posted 28/11/2019 at 13:08:02
Steve get a grip. Sacked by England so you shouldn't manage again?

Absolute ridiculous. We've had players here that have been suspended by the club and jailed to go on and play for the club again.

Allardyce as arrogant as he is and as fat as he is, knows far more about modern coaching and sports science than most managers we could entice.

Because you are into this ipad generation of reinventors and blaggers, you begrudge a man a job because he got sacked by England.

This is why England or Everton will never have a United fanbase.

Paul Tran
152 Posted 28/11/2019 at 13:14:47
Steve, I'll take issue with you here. Allardyce was trapped by a tabloid sting operation in which he said he was interested but wouldn't do anything until he ran it by the FA. My take was that some individuals in the FA didn't want him in the job and used this to oust him. I've seen lots do far worse than what he did and be glorified for it.

I don't particularly like Sam, but I thought he was hard done by with the England job


.

Steve Ferns
153 Posted 28/11/2019 at 13:20:13
Paul, take issue all you want but that man has a long history of corruption allegations and he couldn't even help himself when managing England, knowing full well he would be scrutinised like never before. I begrudge the man because he should have been from football a long time ago.

What iPad generation of reinventors and blaggers might this be then?

Paul Tran
154 Posted 28/11/2019 at 13:27:55
Steve, Ferguson, Clough, Graham, all got caught with their fingers in the till. No doubt many others with reputations for being a 'character' had them in the till as well. Allardyce is one in a line of many rich men whose sense of entitlement went out of control. Frankly, if I want unblemished moral characters, I won't look for them in football, which is in my view the most institutionally corrupt sport on the planet.

I know enough about employment law that you don't sack someone for being an odious, greedy, money-grabbing so and so, but I'm happy to dislike him for what he is.

If he'd taken the FA to a tribunal, he'd have won, but all that may have come out was what persuaded him to take the cash and move on.

You ban him from the game, I don't think there'd be many left.

Steve Ferns
155 Posted 28/11/2019 at 13:38:03
Paul, I know Clough was being investigated at the time his illness got worse, and therefore it was correct to stop the investigation. I would certainly have banned George Graham, Brian Clough and anyone else caught corrupting the game. I've never heard anything more than whispers regarding Ferguson.

I don't care if there wouldn't be many left. There is too much money in football and we need to make sure that those in positions of power are not corrupt.

Paul A Smith
156 Posted 28/11/2019 at 15:01:42
Steve I still remember you smitten with Walsh. Lashing out ludicrous claims like he discovered Drogba.

Fair play to your efforts on any point you make because you try really hard but you love the tactics and modern coach jargon from what I can see.

The horrors at top of the league probably have less tactics than the other 19 teams put together and rely on fitness and commitment more than anything.

I am actually suprised but proud of a few people backtracking their empty Alllardyce quotes lately.

At this point its absolute ridiculous to refuse to believe he knew what was needed and what he was doing.

Dave Abrahams
157 Posted 28/11/2019 at 15:51:00
Paul (148), regarding Sam Allardyce, I actually wanted Allardyce to come and manage Everton at the time he was appointed, particularly as he was bringing Sammie Lee with him, an excellent coach, in my opinion.

However when Allardyce got into us into a safe position he still continued to play the dire negative football he was mostly noted for. This despite his previous claims, that he could successfully manage any club inEurope given the chance.

This surely was his chance to prove he really was as good as his claims. Sam came for the money after getting Everton into a corner, by rejecting their initial offer, and getting a two year contract instead,fair do’s to him over that. In the last couple of months of his time at Everton he had ample games to prove his future worth to the Everton board, he made no effort to do this, going by the performances his tactics provided.

Sam got what he wanted out of Everton, two years excellent wages for around six months work, he was more than happy to walk away with that,no matter what he has said since, if anything.

Paul Tran
158 Posted 28/11/2019 at 16:58:13
Steve, I agree with you in principle on this. Allardyce was sacked for having a conversation with someone who happened to be a tabloid sting operator. I wouldn't single him out, now that I know you wouldn't, fair enough!

Dave, that's on the money. We didn't need Allardyce, I neither like nor wanted Allardyce, but I wondered if he'd do more once we were officially 'safe'. He didn't. He always acted like we were in the bottom three. And we still got battered a few times despite his 'defensive nous'.

Paul Cherrington
159 Posted 28/11/2019 at 17:15:06
Can we stop with the rehashing of false stories and false claims about Sam Allardyce? Let's be clear – he has never been found guilty of any of the allegations levelled against him and is such an innocent man. This ridiculous assertion that he is a crook despite never being found guilty in any court in the land is just that – ridiculous.

People just look silly when they blindly repeat what latest rubbish they have heard on the internet. The England thing was a complete set up by those who didn't want him in the job to get rid of him in my opinion.

In terms of the football being 'dire', I would far rather watch us play less tippy-tappy passes around our own area if it meant we actually did things like won games or moved up the table. I think it is pretty dire to watch us lose and play dreadfully with zero passion now with a far more attacking manager in the hot seat.

Mind you, I suppose the fans who claimed they would happily see us lose if it meant we played in a more attacking way will be happy. Not sure how happy they will be when we are doing it in the Championship but there you go. Philosophies mean nothing, idealism means nothing – winning and getting points does, even if you have to do it by actually tackling and defending well rather than worrying about how much our manager weighs or the fact we don't win 10-0 every game or have 50 shots on target.

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