The Revolving Door

We are structurally disordered and that can only produce confusion throughout, including the selection of the manager.

We are a badly run club.

There are basic problems at Everton which are likely to undermine the efforts of any manager we appoint. One of the biggest is our tendency to sell our best players at the drop of a hat. Selling Gana when the Board knew that Zouma was leaving is a prime example. It was simply a very bad choice that clearly gave a massive risk of defensive instability, which we’ve subsequently seen.

Similarly, before Silva came here, the willingness to sell Lukaku before securing an equivalent or better replacement was clearly a high risk decision in favour of a profit. And the subsequent failure to sign an experienced good striker only highlights the problem more.

This characteristic of Everton is nothing new, and in my memory dates back to the selling of Alan Ball in 1971. Alan Ball, Gary Linekar, Wayne Rooney, Romelu Lukalu, Gana Gueye, all examples of letting pivotal players go at crucial points, to make a big impact elsewhere.

All clubs sell good players, but top clubs don’t do so when those players are in their prime and pivotal to success and there is no adequate replacement.

Add this feature to the bad luck we’ve had with injuries and terrible officiating, and it’s very difficult to see any new manager producing the sustained momentum we need for success.

The sad thing is most Blues are very quick to loudly support the team if there is a sense of hope. Sure, some regular posters on TW don't seem to have that, but thankfully the majority are a much louder voice.

So, if and when, they sack Silva, don't do a Moyes or similar. Then hopes really do get dashed for a true majority of fans who love the club.

I’ve nothing personal against Moyes at all but it’s a monumental step backwards.

Silva is getting the same treatment from the fans that Allardyce, Koeman and Martinez received but Moyes would not be a popular appointment in any way shape or form and I can say it would be almost a certainty that in four months time he himself would be on the end of similar irate supporters fumes.

The only men that fans probably would tolerate a while longer would be a chance on someone like Arteta or a Pochettino (ok maybe dream land but still).

Moyes, Hughes, anyone of that ilk, it’s not going to end well mark my words and sacking Silva to make that kind of appointment is the sign of madness.

Also to appoint Moyes would just be Groundhog Day following the sacking of Koeman and appointing Sam Allardyce, can this club really take a step back two years?

Silva is on borrowed time but come on Moshiri, nearly 4 years in, it’s time now to start getting it right eh?

The rollercoaster ride of the last five years where new managers are appointed and sacked on more lows than highs where fans continually expect a new manager to be the next messiah is hard to swallow, as it has been so long since performances have been consistent and a high league position solid. It pains me to point at Koop and Liverpool as an example of where we would like to be.

Without the revolving door, we may of found ourselves in league two, so it’s a necessary evil, that helps us maintain our place in the top flight.

It all looks like an overall lack of REAL ambition, which contrasts with all the talk from Everton. The Board talks the talk but fails to walk the walk, and this has been so for a long time.

The dithering I think comes from a disjointed board, different and conflicting opinions on what to do, who to approach. Moshiri is craving stability and success but when it comes to making the big decsions he hasn't personally got the football acumen required.

He is relying on his board to direct him. But they always disagree. Kenwright now will be full on to bring Moyes back under the guise of a temporary appointment. Brands and others will be saying different.

Marco Silva was seemingly a done deal before Brands got here, so I don't know how much to attribute his appointment to Brands, if at all.

I would suggest to Farhad not to listen to Bill Kenwright but to take final counsel from Brands. He needs to trust someone to make the best call for the club, and that man has to be Marcel Brands.

Silva has to go now, we all agree on that. Too many mistakes with selections and stubbornly playing 4-2-3-1 every week. But if we had signed a proven striker, we wouldn’t be in this position. A goal scorer can mask a myriad of problems. We have missed Lukaku enormously just for his goals. I don’t think there is too much between us and Leicester, but they have Vardy up front.

Mosh it is a brave and indeed prudent man who can admit he was wrong ( especially in a decision made in a field were said man has no clue !!)

Any decision is better than none, Every manager is a gambe

ACT NOW

Where does DBB fit in? Does she take charge when the absentee bosses are, well, absent...are they all singing from the same sheet...do they even have a sheet.

Same for the football, are Brands and Silva compatible. Who has the final say. Who does what? Is Brands giving him the correct tools to do the job...what ever the job is...and who sets that?

I'm not sure the revolving door is revolving fast enough. They need to wind it up to supersonic speeds so it spews a few more besides Silva out the door.

As always with the County Rd (very, very) Casuals - more questions than answer

I find myself writing that last line more and more and its not getting any better.

His last appointments have been a joke and asking Magic Marcel to bring a Dutch genius in will be more catastrophe. Them hyped up Dutchmen are the funniest genius of them all.

Hows is it every time he pulls on his "blue" jersey every word from his mouth is like a steaming turd, How can you trust anybody who would spit in a childs face because the RS lost to act any better than the biased thug that he is - Shocking

This is the medias wider agenda for me to set our low standards for us, Not that Bill needs much help, Tossers

Brands /Moshiri big failure is that nothing has changed on the internal football side of the Club. If a new Manager comes through the revolving door the atmosphere will not change in the Club and the same underlying issues will remain.

Everton will be back to the same now familiar situation as today within two years. Moshiri /Brands realise this , but there are no signs they have worked out why. Hence the eerie silence.

How do they keep their existing development plan on track?????

Not ideal to take someone on the back of failure but 2 years ago he was a very highly rated coach that many would have had near the top of our lists. He's won alot of trophies and his work at Sevilla especially was exceptional.

After his struggles at Arsenal he could very much be in our league and presumably would be desperate to show that he can succeed in the PL? Just a thought.

I can't believe Brands is anything more than head of player recruitment. If he is in charge of hiring and firing managers then expect our next manager to arrive injured and unable to coach for the first 6 weeks.

Brands as Director of Football and as a Board member to boot, is turning into a enigma.

The weepy fella with 5% can nostalgically look back at the glory days when we managed a regular top half finish and zero trophies. The rest of us won’t.

out of the blue question but are you the Jerome I went the Spurs games with a couple years ago? Koeman first game in charge.

Silva has proved in his time here that he sets his teams up to play better against a better standard of opposition. If he’s in charge throughout December then it might not be as bad as we fear.

However - regardless of results I would sack him before any easy looking games (might be difficult on the back of a couple of wins) as he has proved time and time again that he just does not learn against these teams.

It would take an owner with some balls to say “you’ve done well in December against the best, but you’re going anyway”.

The longer the incompetence continues, the nearer our wonderful Club and fanbase are getting to the edge of that dreaded abyss.

What really beggars belief, and apologies to anyone reading, if I am repeating myself, is that Moshiri purportedly was our 'Fairy Godfather', which we had craved for so long.

Collectively rubbing our hands and expectancy levels at an all time high, in a relatively short space of time has turned from a dream to a nightmare.

How can someone who is a billionaire, and let's be honest, knew very little about Football, be so easily duped into squandering millions?

He didn't become a billionaire through unsound decisions and dodgy or poor/risky investments, whatever the commodity, the principle is surely the same.

If it is an area that can yield huge benefits, but you have very little knowledge about; surely you employ expert advisors in that field, not a lucky Theatre Impresario who has been lucky to, initially purchase a major share, then get a place on the Board of his boyhood Club. (oh those days in the boy's pen)

I just hope upon hope that some sanity in decision making, is made in the not too distant future, before we get to that point of no return.

Someone suggested a poll for us to vote on, who we TW, think would be the best fit as our next Manager, while I appreciate there would be a diversity of opinions, some 'totally illogical Captain' and assuming the majority agreed on a particular Candidate.

Maybe that could be somehow could be conveyed to the Board, who probably, in all reality would not directly act upon it, but at least we would have had our say!

If he’s done his job properly Brands should have a short wish list of managers who could replace Silva. The availability of these managers is the difficult call at the present time, locked in to contracts themselves and put those issues together with our dreadful fixture list ahead of us and who will want to come. I’m absolutely sure Moyes wouldn’t be on that list. If Brands advice isn’t being listened to or followed or in the case of a Moyes appointment totally disregarded then Brands will quite rightly question his role at the club.

Terrible dilemma we’ve got ourselves in - compare it with the CEO of Spurs, Daniel Levy who managed the whole transaction within 24 hours and ensured Mourinho had West Ham and Olympiacos as first easy fixture to warm the fans to Mourinho. Well planned and executed, Everton !!, not even a plan ready

No I wasn't at the Tottenham. We are bound to let sometime, we are use to share offering over years and will continue to do so.

We don't know who's been approached or sounded out. Surely though the structure is Brands will make the recommendations and Moshiri decides after consulting Bill. It was easier for Spurs as their no 1 target was out of work so could be approached freely and quickly. After the Watford/Silva debacle I bet were being much more careful and discreet with our plotting/recruitment.

Such a massive shame for SIlva that after beating Southampton away we tripped up at home against Norwich. But that sums up Silva's reign he has an innate ability to constantly dig himself and his team into unnecessary holes.

I think Silva will be gone after the Merseyside derby. He's shown nothing but inconsistency and his team a total lack of fight.

Should a successor (whoever it maybe) be appointed immediately, he would struggle to acclimatise to Finch Farm, get to know the players, implement his tactics, take a few Training sessions etc, in such a short space of time.

Let alone achieve any points, unless he had Hogwarts Training, or was a fully paid up member of the Magic Circle.

We all want some form of action or at least a sign of positivity/information update from the Board, (chance would indeed be a fine thing) but the situation could still be rescued by a competent Coach.

Sorry to bring up contracts again, but surely if you have failed to deliver, miserably and dramatically, midway through a 3 year contract you are in breach, and therefore NOT entitled to any Compensation.

I can't imagine these contracts (but who knows for sure?) are simple ones, but in any walk of life or profession, apart from a severance of a few weeks pay, I can't think of any other situation where incompetence is rewarded in Millions.

I'm sure Paul the Esk knows a lot more than mere mortals like myself, in this area, and it may be worth an article on it's own, to enlighten us bewildered fans as to the vagueries and mysteries in general, as to how they are written up.

Fred Karno's !

The only question mark is against his big name signings, but to be honest I'd rather he focus on getting the best out of the guys he has at his disposal now. Plus he has Brands to sign the players.

Get him in now - it's a no-brainer

I always found it was better to focus on what we do know in these critical times.

Tim Wardrop, its a no brainer if you want another Silva, another Martinez, another manager that throws discipline into the bin and favours the possesion and pressing style with poor players. Eddie Howe should be perfect.

*car won't start*

Brands: Farhad, there's no gas in the car.

Kenwright (with full gas cans in each hand): Farhad, I've got gas.

Moshiri: Marcel, give the keys to Bill, he's driving.

/end scene

Maybe a start to Iwobe and Kean will energize the team somewhat but so far under Silva neither has done the business.

It remains therefore a waiting game until the window opens to see if some class additions can be made because by that time I can see them in the bottom three.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bill-kenwright-regains-influence-at-everton-but-owners-criticism-of-marco-silva-is-unhelpful-ft6kgnwtd

It is a "no-brainer" for those of us that have one that is, I have been on championing Eddie's cause the last 2/3 days and funny how everybody that says NO to Eddie cant/never provide a viable alternative ? who has actually worked in PL and sustained success over a long period , Is so easy to be a nay-sayer , the work he has done at B/mouth has been nothing short of miraculous, Name me a manger who could get b/mouth into the Top four ( not gona happen)

Thats the posters who don't want Moyes (no comment) or even worse have a Sado masochist fetish with the RS which infers that the only manager (in a world full of them) we can get in, is THEIR most successful cast off ???

I can only think there is some weird psychologial shit going on here as his recent record stinks and hes won fckal in the last 10 years and is a hasbeen

Eddies the Man :)

If Moshiri is interfering or not letting Brands do what he was brought to the club for then we are doomed.

Leaving the poor lad in charge when he knows he’s getting sacked is a new low for the club. Why should he or the players put any effort into a lost cause?

We feel paralyzed and completely unprepared for this outcome.

Since Saturday, in keeping with the mood of the Evertonian diaspora, you've been delivering a new article on THE topic every 12 hours.

What Everton reduces you to, eh?

Evidently, like the rest of us, you are experiencing the roller-coaster of emotions all the fun of the Everton fair never fails to deliver.

Sadness. Frustration. Bewilderment. Exasperation. Anger. And everything in between.

It's coming up to four years since Moshiri took over the reins at Everton and for all the cosmetic changes, we still appear to be as dysfunctional a club as ever.

He SEEMS genuine in wanting to revive Everton's fortunes.

He personally cleared the club debt. Set up a more advantageous lender. Funded unheard of spending sprees. Is being meticulous in preparing the new stadium project. Bought the Liver Building and centred Everton's administration there. Reshaped the board 18 months ago. Hired a DoF with excellent credentials. Has not been shy in changing managers.

And yet...here we are, 3 days after Saturday's horror show v Norwich, and not one official whisper from the club on what is now a crisis.

Now some may interpret that as a positive. That there has not been any 'vote of confidence in the manager' club statement. Surely, if there was ROCK SOLID belief in the manager from the owner or the board, they would have issued such a statement by now.

But no. They have been as silent as the Sphinx.

And whilst (as reflected on these very pages) there has been lots of rumour and speculation, the one and only possible utterance we have heard from the decision makers was the reported comment from Moshiri as he was leaving his seat at the final whistle when confronted by angry fans: "We will have better days."

Even if that was genuinely uttered or not, it's not a lot to go on. Whether he believes those better days will be with or without Silva is open to interpretation.

Having been promoted to the board, Brands as DoF is surely the designated specialist on purely footballing matters, such as player and manager recruitment.

There is ample evidence he is meticulous in his methods with regard to player recruitment, even though he doesn't or can't always land every desired target. I have to assume he has a database of potential replacement managers to call on if needed.

If this isn't the case, then for me he is being negligent in a critical area of his remit.

Now Moshiri as the man picking up the tab in compensation to a dismissed manager and paying the salary of the incoming manager of COURSE has a major voice in this. But I would hope that is primarily restricted to the finances, rather than the footballing side of things.

A good leader, having appointed good section managers beneath him, should largely heed and accept recommendations they make. He should not be swayed or influenced by a token former company 'president' whose shareholding is now minimal and who is basically retained as a nostalgic link to the past, wheeled out for a photo opp or glib quote now and again.

To their credit, Everton has always been good at keeping stum and surprising us with unexpected deals for incoming players.

Maybe, just maybe, they are working like crazy behind the scenes and negotiating with Silva's replacement as we speak.

Equally likely, for some (to me) unfathomable reason the boardroom is split on whether to retain or dismiss Silva and stalemate and indecision has resulted.

Either way for me, everyone needs clarity on this, not least the players who face a very challenging December. If they intend to stick with Silva, fine! Come out and say it! If they are working to replace him, the silence is more understandable.

But I will repeat what I've said on other threads. A decision DOES need to be taken. You cannot determine that decision on the upcoming fixture list and think:

"No point in throwing a new man into that fixture list 'cos he'll have a baptism of fire and get off to a losing start."

Or alternatively, leaving Silva in situ to take the heat and further justify his dismissal with more defeats in the next 2-3 games.

Or more, putting in place a caretaker for 6 months with two-thirds of the season to play when we are only 5 points off 5th place. To do so is to passively sacrifice this season and our progress in two cup competitions.

There is a fair body of evidence now that Silva has not shown himself to be reliable or consistent enough in the performances and results his Everton team delivers.

For many it is no longer a question of if he should go, but rather when.

And when he does go, the board needs to be very careful in appointing a replacement that unites, rather than splits or alienates, the fan base from day one.

We sacked Martinez then replaced him with an inferior manager, then sacked Koeman for an even inferior manager. When I see the names put forward they just give me deja vu.

For me we either need to break the bank and get one of the few who would guarantee success i.e. Pochettino or a novice who could be special before he makes his mark.

That's why I nailed my colours to Arteta straight away because he may offer the chance of greatness, would unite the club and the players couldn't hide behind the man in the suit any longer as one clued in twebber had pointed out. I don't think our club will even consider the alternative option.

If we go into Sunday's game with Silva in charge it's not the end of the world if it results in the right course of action being subsequently taken. Who knows he might get a performance and it will allow him an opportunity to select a team that has a bit of pride and pace about it. I expect wholesale changes at the weekend no matter who is in charge.

The silence tells me that they're searching for/arguing over the next man, before they sack Silva.

I remember being regularly told on here during the Moyes years that all we needed was money, rather than my 'fancy' ideas of good management and recruitment.

When I lived in London, I used to do my Saturday punting at William Hill on Cricklewood Broadway. There was always a bloke in there handing a bundle of slips over the counter - he didn't know whether any of them had won. None of them ever did. Whenever I think of our club management I think of that bloke.

What he has achieved is admirable. Yet people portray the Cherries as an attacking side who play the "right way" (whatever that means but the media keep saying it).

My brother and I went to see them last season at Goodison and we were stunned at how much they foul, time waste and simulate. There was no free flowing attacking football. They looked just as defensive and negative as Palace or Brighton who are or were notorious for being compact and unambitious on the road.

As others point out, they go on losing streaks and when they concede goals, it can be heavy. They're now in their 5th season in the top flight and haven't really transitioned. There appears to be no commitment to going on a cup run and there's no pressure on Howe as they love him down there.

Maybe he could do much better with a bigger budget but I think trading a job with little pressure for us would be too much. He'd go from a job where he could probably survive relegation to one where we'd all be calling for his head for not taking the League Cup seriously or losing 3 on the bounce.

I find it interesting that southern sides like Brighton, Saints, West Ham and Palace have changed coaches annually yet none of them have ever seriously been in for Howe.

And remember, he has total control there. With us having Brands, it would be another obstacle.

I bet on line now... at least I now know if I've won.

"It looks like someone has jammed the revolving door, but they just haven’t pulled the trigger yet."

Why did 'The Godfather' tune just pop into my head as I read that, Tony?!

Is this the new Everton Way?

"Make him an offer he can't refuse...or his wife will be a widow and his children orphans".

I like it!

Keeping a small side up amounts to "success" from what you are saying on here, and numerous other threads.

Should EFC go the way AVFC it would probably be the most expensive side in football top flight history to go that way.

I have noticed many times on here that most people seem to think we'll comfortably avoid this fate, this time around, well if December goes against us?

There will be 26pts that will need to be found from 18 games and at the moment we are averaging 1.1 pts per game, we need to find 0.34 pts extra per game. It's a tiny number that has proven impossible for nearly all once in the bottom 3.

I sincerely hope my negative attitude on this is wrong and all the confident ones are right.

Culture change starts at the top and filters down, under Kenwright’s stewardship he steadied the ship but whilst he and his ethos remains, we may find ourselves having the same conversation in 12 months’ time post Silva.

A significantly more ruthless approach is required both on and off the pitch that’s more befitting of a modern day football club, but with Kenwright as confidant to Moshiri this won’t happen. For all the good work Bill has done now’s the time for him to let go of the reigns fully to allow a real step change in direction to occur - The Revolving Door needs more than one person to exit from it.

if you have a viable alternative I am waiting to hear it ? I have asked for it twice now ? Enlighten us please ?

If you gona say who it aint, You should also say who it am !!

So the point to this is how bad is enough? It's not good enough to me for people to say other clubs are just as bad, I'm not interested in other clubs, only Everton. For me, that 3 month run last season was unacceptable for Everton. We, as a club should never accept that kind of run whoever is manager. So after giving him the benefit of the doubt due to his first season, we finished ok. Expecting to carry on the decent form into the new season, we have been pretty awful. The loss of Gana and Zouma shouldn't have destabilised the team to this extent. He had all summer and preseason to work out a plan. It's been terrible and we are now nearly into December. Again this kind of run should never be acceptable as the level of performance and commitment or lack thereof shouldn't be acceptable but apparently is. Our standards are shocking and keep getting lower.

So we drift along again, the board hoping a win somewhere will give them a chance to say the corner has been turned. It's a shite state of affairs now, even the gobshites have stopped thinking we are significant enough to take the piss out of, we are nothing but a laughing stock.

We wont get a top level manager now, we are too damaged I think. Maybe Arteta/Cahill team would be good for us. At least they will bring a bit of fire and pride to the shirt. As it stands it's just painful being a blue.

I'm trying to establish what you regard as "success"? Pulis achieved the same (probably more), than Howe has.

Just because the right candidate isn't currently available, it doesn't mean we should automatically appoint another one that isn't suitable. I don't understand why you can't see that.

That worked well at Sevilla, with an undertalented squad that always overachieved, but failed at PSG and now at Arsenal, where there's far more expensive talent that doesn't like to be shouted at. And some of his personnel decisions (Xhaka as captain? Really?) have been head-scratchers.

I think he'd get the best out of our current squad and certainly improve our performance and position, but he'd have a limited shelf life.

Why do you continue to insist anyone who says 'no' to Howe is obliged to put up a 'viable' alternative, as if failing to do so invalidates their opinion?

It's a complete non sequitur.

You have been given a number of 'viable' reasons why some posters are wary of him. You haven't made a very good case in support of him at all.

He seems a nice fellah. I understand he interviews well and was being seriously considered by Southampton, he impressed so much with his presentation, before they appointed Pochettino.

But you cannot glibly dismiss his truly awful defensive record in the PL as you did yesterday as being down to the 'open attacking game' he plays. It's not a credible counter-argument.

I see your Neil Warnock and raise you... Steve McClaren.

Showbiz impressario Bill Kenwright will provide the tune so long as someone else is paying in line with the past practice.

Derek @51. As in 'IT' our clowns aren't funny, they're very, very scary. Unless you are the rest of the football world, of course, which is finding them hilarious.

It's clearly evident that Morshiri doesn't want the full hands on role of chairman, and wants a football man in that job. This is the nightmare scenario that most of us envisioned. Bill got his wish of a wealthy investor, and he still has his hands on the reigns. I also have a feeling why Kenwright is still there is that the new stadium is more than likely to get the go ahead. Bill wants to be chairman seen leading the club into the 'promised land' and with all the drama and spectacle that goes online with it.

Say that though, I wouldn't be surprized that we'll see another large purchase of shares by Morshiri in the new year, and hopefully the removal of Kenwright as chairman. While Morshiri's managerial choices haven't been stellar, Brands was brought in to deal with that side. Once he's actually allowed to do that, I'm hoping for a complete change in fortune.

He's subjected to a torrent of media noise suggesting his imminent departure

Meanwhile the relentless silence from the Everton Board (not even the dreaded 'vote of confidence' ) is becoming more embarrassing with each day

... I was expecting news of an initiative from EiTC to distract us - but nothing!

We as supporters understand that this is a difficult decision to make but some of the names being thrown around are simply signs of grasping at straws.

If they are going to fire Silva make sure he is replaced by someone who understands the modern game,is more than capable of building a team, not afraid to use young players and have a good record of game management.

My understanding of the managerial position at Everton F.C. is the owner and board want to fire Silva but don't have a clue who they can get at the moment, and are just looking for someone till the end of this season.

My own opinion would be not to hire a previous manager who a large number of supporters do not want, as it took him a couple of seasons to get Everton in a respectful position and was not very complimentary to the club after he left.
I don't now if Hughes will except a temporary position till the end of the season, and the only thing that may happen is new managers usually change things around with favorable results.

The stark reality is Silva has left this club in the biggest mess it has ever been in, with the option of,
if the owner and board are truly, as they try to tell us,
ambitious, then they will either have to hire a temporary manager till the end of the season or keep
(i expect to get shot for saying this ) Silva and have a suitable manager lined up for next season.

To the owner. You became owner of Everton F.C. with a lot of exiting promises and to fulfill these promises takes a great deal of responsibility, one of these responsibilities it is ensure the correct knowledgeable people are in position to advise you on the playing side of the club.

The business side of the club appears to be run efficiently, but the playing side, whether you have been given the wrong information, or you have thought you new more than the personnel you hired, is letting the club down badly.
This is the area that needs the most attention, you need to listen to football people who have been involved in the playing coaching and management side of things not directors that just watch the game.

Take a look at the comments made by one of Everton F.C. great chairman Mr J. Moore as an example of leadership.

I am open also to a caretaker also depending on whom, if we can at least stay safe from the drop which is not a given, I posted on Arteta on another thread I just cannot see it,

As regards what I deem success I very much would see what Eddie has achieved in management at bmouth (taking all things into acount) as being worthy of a "crack" at a Top club,

Holding a clipboard and nodding at Pep not so much for me

@Jay

As discussed yesterday with yourself if you chose not to put forward a name that is fine ,you will agree though "somebody" has to be manager ? I am suggesting Eddie and trying to back that up with why, One of the main reasons is he is Viable option so am genuinely interested if somebody thinks NO to Eddie and comes up with reasons why not , they could use that minute to suggest somebody as we cannot leave the post vacant

if not willing to indulge is up to themselves but I wil continue to ask

He's a candidate for sure but certainly not the only one. He did a good job getting Bournemouth promoted and keeping them in the league but for the last two and half season they have not progressed beyond midtable (not talking about top 4) despite having big transfer spends and mid-table wages; so none of that shoestring mythology please.

In terms of alternatives many have been mentioned but here are my favourite 8: Arteta, Adi Hutter, Marco Rose, Gallardo, Ten hag, Marcelino, Wilder, Nagelsmann. Sure Howe might be on or around that list but he is certainly not the only candidate and i've not see him do much over the last 2 years to suggest he'd be a cert to lift us up the table.

Some things are clear;
- There's no available credible candidate other than Poch who is being apparently considered for Bayern so, realistically unlikely to happen
- Moshiri has been burnt before by relieving a Manager of his duties whilst having no alternative lined up; so he's obviously reluctant to pull that trigger also
- Moshiri has played the 'interim' Manager card before with Allardyce and it proved expensive having to pay for 18 months for a 6 months contract
- Does he really want to go after a Manager who is currently serving the PL or Championship and go through all the legal processes again?

So stick with Silva and hope he can turn things on their head like he did last season when few thought he could get the team playing well before he took are of United, Chelsea and Arsenal.

Hope lingers on anyway.

Marcelino is intriguing and available. Not really watched his sides so studiously but I've enjoyed watching them play. I think Silva's squad may be one he can work with without many changes and that would be a big plus. Being too like Silva would be a negative for many.

Arteta is certainly someone I can get behind.

What we really need is an English version of the young Mourhino or an experienced man who has the strength to tell the board and Brands how we need the playing side to run.

We should be looking at Poccettino, Ancelltoti, Ten Hag, NAgelsman, Marcelino etc as our "A" list.

We are acting like a championship side considering the likes of Hughes, Moyes etc. and to continue with Silva is an absolute disgrace and embarassment.

I don't believe we deserve any of this at all, if you look at the away and home support, week in, week out it is an almost undying, undeserved and misplaced loyalty in it's present state.

As I have said many a time, the Everton fanbase are pretty knowledgeable, but have had no say whatsoever in the present car crash state of affairs.

I would consider Wilder but my only fear is he may struggle with the "type" of player we have here, the guys he has at brammal lane are good in character

He sends out all the right noises though, and recently was quoted as saying about his players something like "I am not going to credit them for running about thats what we pay them for I will credit them for playing good football"

Ten Haag is not a goer for me he will have to many options
I am not Eddie Howe just being overly vocal on his possible appointment and have too much time on my hands this week, Sorry if I am swamping the forums

@Jay 98

Is funny but the guys you list was very much the type of arguement and list I was advocating when Koeman was fired ( I wanted us to aim high) but I have lowered my expectations i have to admit, As I said if you offer me Simeone or Eddie I would take Simeone but I am trying to be pragmatic also

Silva would not have lasted at B/mouth for more than a couple of seasons at best

The list of (reasonably appropriate) unemployed managers who could walk right in is something like: Marcelino, Allegri, Spaletti, Moyes, Hughes, Kovac, Blanc, Hughton, Quique Setien, Javi Gracia.

Think the only ones I'd like from that list are Marcelino or Allegri. Maybe Kovac.

Its only a few years since Spurs were below us but look at their ambition and then compare it to ours.

If you think like a small club and act like a small club then you will be a small club.

What makes you think Allegri would go down well? Don't you think he's quite negative and with our squad is likely to be even more so?

Hasn't the scathing criticism of Kovac put you off him?

Ultimately the fans want to see us getting points and results. I'm certainly not a massive Allegri fan but out of that list he'd be one of the better managers in my opinion.

I want to keep Silva, no surprise there, but if Brands was my man and told me a list of reasons why he had concluded Marco should be gone, I would sack him. Honestly, I would. You have to go with the expert here. If you don't then what's the point? How can non-football people know more than the football person, no matter how big a fan you are?

If we get a Top drawer manager Poch, Simeone, Ten Haag I will gladly put aside my opinions, my fear is Rafa or even worse Moyes ( but with a fans favourite Cahill, Arteta so as to deflect any criticism in a cynical ploy by BK )

But I would not be surprised if Eddie when he gets his opportunity at a Top club does not succeed

1- He is second in command to one of the greatest managers in history.It's not just his winning mentality but moreover his ability to change games, systems, to think outside the box which Arteta has a vital role in.
For the best part of two decades we complain about no plan b. At City they think of b,c and d in the one game.

2-We have tried the percentage football, the slow paced possession, park the bus, all with no success. At City they play with high intensity, high press football which I've no doubt Arteta would take here.

3-Born leader; was captain as a player and always produced when the pressure was on, I doubt that would change from the sidelines.

4-He gets us, he knew how and when to get Goodison rocking, he knows what we expect and what's unacceptable and he loves the club as you could see in an interview how hurt he was by the crowds reaction when he left. He talks about his career and achievement when at Arsenal but his love when he speaks of us.

5-The players won't be able to throw Arteta under the bus.

6- Unity of club: for too long we have been infighting and pulling in different directions. His appointment would see a level of goodwill and excitement and patience that we haven't seen before.

7-making players better: Guardiola credits him for the turnaround in Sterlings finishing. Could you imagine the player Iwobi Bernard or DCL would be if they could do the same

I was well glad to see Martinez go in the end after being one to be happy he was our manager. It ended bad but nobody can deny he achieved far more than Moshiri's choices?

Kenwright was a total soppy clown to me but I still remember the few good things that happened. The summer he got Barry and Lukaku for Martinez was probably our best window in the premiership.

This is all based on fans saying he is involved in choosing the manager etc. I don't believe he is but if the board is split, would I be silly to favour Moshiri's choice?

Or maybe the negotiations are taking longer than they thought, or they're just cocking them up, like they seem to with everything else?

Who knows? One thing I do know is - I want it to turn around so I have to support everyone involved until it changes and hope for the best.

Fair enough it was a bit harsh I retract and acknowledge he was a great player for us and as I recall had a few opportunities where he could have jumped ship and didnt

He will have learned a great deal from a great manager but I just don't feel the jump from 2nd to head coach has historically worked over a sustained period for many (Mourinho aside), I don't believe it just rubs off you either have it or not,

On the flip side I also feel Eddie deserves his chance he has had to earn it the hard way regards management and has served his apprentiship, I also really feel there is alot of goodwill for him in both the game and at our club so he will defo Unite us

Would prefer Mikel to spread his wings at a lower club before we take a punt

If we put in a manager with no experience and things go bad we could go down

Given that, what do you think Everton's chances are at changing Ajax's mind?

The reason why I asked if you would be happy for Kenwright to choose the new manager is that I find it amazing he still has any say in big decisions at Everton, never mind that he has the football savvy to make such a decision, the same could be said for Moshiri in relation to football savvy.

As for who makes that decision, only Brands, to my knowledge, has the football brain for that.

It wouldn't be extreme at all to think Moshiri talks to him on all matters as proper business practice but I think the Silva situation from start to finish shows you what voice matters most.

Its not extreme for them to all have different ideas of what we need either.
People all over the country think Kenwright and Moyes worked well together. I don't want the man near the dugout but I can see why Kenwright would. I just don't agree with it.

Moshiri may now feel in Brands he has a man more knowledged in the search for a coach so I wouldn't bank on Kenwrights influence being a problem. Plus he won't argue with Moshiri, I find that very unlikely?

The press will paint what they like, I don't believe much media but sky will always have someone close to Alan Myers that will be close to the truth.

Last years stories In the Silva chase were "Kenwright favours Dyche". So why any other board member would have even bothered arguing the toss when we knew months before, Silva was Moshiri's man it seems very unlikely?

Anyway, a year on their story is "Kenwright Favours Moyes", no mention of Dyche in Kenwrights favour now. Moyes TV work doing wonders for his managerial prospects it seems while Dyche working wonders at Burnley is meaningless in comparison.

What a load of bull they try to feed us.

True, but the secret is not to eat it, by all means chew it over, but definitely don't swallow it!

As for the media Paul, they have to make a living and most of them don’t really put a lot of effort into digging for a proper story or telling one, although I know one or two who were genuine people, but most of them or nearly all of them rely on contacts and pay for information, which ( sometimes) is close to the truth.

In theory I like Howe and considered him along with Rodgers when we appointed Marco but he does remind me of Roberto and I feel we need a more uniting voice, we need to evolve and not revolve.

I disagree that appointing Arteta would put us in danger of relegation as I feel we were always going to improve second half of the season after the window we had. We have also had VAR, poor management decisions and key injuries which haven't helped. I've no doubt Brands and Moshiri will want to back the new man in key areas in January where we failed in the summer as they may fear becoming the next under fire.

The reason why I feel it must be now to appoint Mikel as if he does go to a lower team and rip it up he would be Guardiolas heir apparent and we would have missed the boat.

We have continually went cheap and safe and got burnt...now is the time to be brave or bold...Arteta or Pochettino.

I have a gut feeling they are talking to a heavy hitter. I don’t think it will be Poch - suspect he will end up at United in the new year.

Mike Doyle # 91 - I have posted before that for anyone to get the sack is a serious business but this is the life football managers choose and they know that getting hired and fired is a big part of it. They are also very well rewarded for taking on that pressure so don’t feel too bad for Marco. He is young so if it happens he will get over it and pop up somewhere else to have another go.

As for who Moshiri is taking advice from (because he should be) I hope that this is the moment that Brands steps up to the plate and asserts his authority as DOF.

From what I have seen, heard and read about him in various interviews etc I don’t think he is a spin doctor.

I am hoping we are in for a pleasant surprise. We could do with something to lift us.

What heavy hitter is your gut telling you? I'm intrigued to find out!

Rob H @127 if he saw that graffiti I should hope his only thought was "that's disgusting and I'm extremely disappointed in our fanbase."

Ray @128 some utter d-bag spraypainted "SILVA OUT" on the walls of Goodison.

The picture has been spread all over the internet. Just really poor taste.

Hope not, but I don’t think it’s impossible just yet that Moyes is totally out the equation.

He has spent a big chunk of his footballing life learning from two of the best in the business - Wenger and Guardiola.

They are also made of stern stuff where he comes from.

I signed DK!!

https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/moron-s-of-the-highest-order-goodison-graffiti.108718/

Do you condone 1) graffiti on the walls of Goodison, and/or 2) fuck Silva & his family because he's a bad manager?

As far as Poch and United is concerned - his buy out is £12m+. If United want him, they won’t let that get in the way.

Anthony # 133 - I am sure you will understand when I say I hope you are wrong.

Paul the point was a rather simple one that shouldn't require a teacher to explain. Silva is acutely aware of how the fans think, as you just noted. Piling on with a display of graffiti on Goodison is unnecessary and disgusting. Not sure why you think Silva or his family wouldn't have seen it given how quickly it spread on social media. You may not participate on those platforms but millions do.

To be replaced by someone far worse but a more popular choice at the time in Marco Silva. Just shows that some fans don't know football at all. And now they start again by writing people like Moyes off if they get the nod before a ball is kicked.

How abuot giving whoever the new guy is some support for a change and not only if fits some idealistic notion of an international playboy type who speaks 10 languages and has great hair while speaking English no-one can really understand and sends his team out to play the much-vaunted 'attacking' football? Why not prize someone who can get us results and get us up the table – however it happens?

The obsessed still say "that brand of football", that cheesey popular line, when they watched Koeman struggle with the same players and Allardyce was stuck with no full backs and Calvert Lewin up front, went to Anfield played 442 and got the best result we had there in ages.

It was an absolute disgrace how he was judged.

Absolute ridiculous. We've had players here that have been suspended by the club and jailed to go on and play for the club again.

Allardyce as arrogant as he is and as fat as he is, knows far more about modern coaching and sports science than most managers we could entice.

Because you are into this ipad generation of reinventors and blaggers, you begrudge a man a job because he got sacked by England.

This is why England or Everton will never have a United fanbase.

I don't particularly like Sam, but I thought he was hard done by with the England job

.

What iPad generation of reinventors and blaggers might this be then?

I know enough about employment law that you don't sack someone for being an odious, greedy, money-grabbing so and so, but I'm happy to dislike him for what he is.

If he'd taken the FA to a tribunal, he'd have won, but all that may have come out was what persuaded him to take the cash and move on.

You ban him from the game, I don't think there'd be many left.

I don't care if there wouldn't be many left. There is too much money in football and we need to make sure that those in positions of power are not corrupt.

Fair play to your efforts on any point you make because you try really hard but you love the tactics and modern coach jargon from what I can see.

The horrors at top of the league probably have less tactics than the other 19 teams put together and rely on fitness and commitment more than anything.

I am actually suprised but proud of a few people backtracking their empty Alllardyce quotes lately.

At this point its absolute ridiculous to refuse to believe he knew what was needed and what he was doing.

However when Allardyce got into us into a safe position he still continued to play the dire negative football he was mostly noted for. This despite his previous claims, that he could successfully manage any club inEurope given the chance.

This surely was his chance to prove he really was as good as his claims. Sam came for the money after getting Everton into a corner, by rejecting their initial offer, and getting a two year contract instead,fair do’s to him over that. In the last couple of months of his time at Everton he had ample games to prove his future worth to the Everton board, he made no effort to do this, going by the performances his tactics provided.

Sam got what he wanted out of Everton, two years excellent wages for around six months work, he was more than happy to walk away with that,no matter what he has said since, if anything.

Dave, that's on the money. We didn't need Allardyce, I neither like nor wanted Allardyce, but I wondered if he'd do more once we were officially 'safe'. He didn't. He always acted like we were in the bottom three. And we still got battered a few times despite his 'defensive nous'.

People just look silly when they blindly repeat what latest rubbish they have heard on the internet. The England thing was a complete set up by those who didn't want him in the job to get rid of him in my opinion.

In terms of the football being 'dire', I would far rather watch us play less tippy-tappy passes around our own area if it meant we actually did things like won games or moved up the table. I think it is pretty dire to watch us lose and play dreadfully with zero passion now with a far more attacking manager in the hot seat.

Mind you, I suppose the fans who claimed they would happily see us lose if it meant we played in a more attacking way will be happy. Not sure how happy they will be when we are doing it in the Championship but there you go. Philosophies mean nothing, idealism means nothing – winning and getting points does, even if you have to do it by actually tackling and defending well rather than worrying about how much our manager weighs or the fact we don't win 10-0 every game or have 50 shots on target.