Dead Man Walking

Farhad Moshiri and the Board may have resisted any knee-jerk impulse to fire Marco Silva and appoint an unpopular interim coach like two years ago but it still leaves the Portuguese hanging by a thread for at least the next two games. Barring a miraculous run of results, the hierarchy will surely act but they must use any time in the interim to find the right successor.

Lyndon Lloyd 28/11/2019 208comments  |  Jump to last

The only way Everton could be in worse shape heading into the toughest stretch of fixtures of the season would be if they were in Watford’s position on the bottom of the Premier League. As it is, they are only four points above the drop zone and after facing Leicester, Liverpool, Chelsea, Manchester United and Arsenal, there’s a very good chance that the Blues could be sitting in the bottom three come Christmas.

It’s hardly the ideal situation for the club to find itself in at a time when their manager looks to have lost the faith of everyone concerned. Everton’s failure to do what was expected after the 2-0 defeat to Norwich last Saturday and relieve Marco Silva of his duties means that the Portuguese will take charge of Sunday’s daunting trip to the King Power Stadium and, in all likelihood, the Anfield derby three days later.

There’s a silver lining there in that Farhad Moshiri and the Board have resisted any knee-jerk impulse to fire the manager and either leave the team in David Unsworth’s temporary care like they did two years ago or appoint an unpopular interim coach like they did with Sam Allardyce once it became clear that Unsworth couldn’t adequately steady the ship. For now, that has ruled out the return of David Moyes which will be of comfort to a good many fans but it still leaves Silva as “dead man walking” through at least the next two games.

The criticism levelled at the hierarchy, of course, is that they have thrown Silva to the wolves and effectively written off the Leicester and Liverpool matches rather than hand any new hire a baptism by fire. The odds are stacked against the Portuguese — his side wouldn’t have been given much of a chance by pundits at the best of times but with confidence low after the debacle against the Canaries, Everton could be on a hiding to nothing — but it needn’t be regarded as mission impossible.

Silva’s teams have shown an ability to get something from games against the top sides before, with the more open playing style favoured by these teams more conducive to the kind of fast transitions and counter-attacking style he favours. The Toffees won away at Leicester last season, could have been a goal up at Anfield last term before Jordan Pickford’s error gifted Divock Origi his goal and vanquished all three of Chelsea, Arsenal and United in the final weeks of 2018-19.

Those were different times, though, when Kurt Zouma was on top form, Idrissa Gueye was patrolling in front of the back four, André Gomes was fit and Gylfi Sigurdsson was producing goals. Now, Silva presides over a team that is missing three of those players plus two other central midfielders because of injury (Sigurdsson, meanwhile, has become a passenger) and is short of confidence at both ends of the pitch. It will be a massive ask for them to repeat the form they showed in these matches last season.

Nevertheless, despite evidence to the contrary for much of the campaign, this is a squad that has talent in some key areas and with the right team selection and system, Silva can put himself in the best position to perhaps eke something out of one or both of the next two away assignments. Drop Sigurdsson, deploy Alex Iwobi in the No 10 role and leave him there; move Cenk Tosun back to the bench and use your most effective goalscorer, Richarlison, in the central striking role or play him just off Dominic Calvert-Lewin to avoid the latter being as isolated as he so often has been up front.

If Bernard is fit, so much the better as that will allow the manager to ditch Theo Walcott as well and while he won’t have any option in defensive midfield other than to use Morgan Schneiderlin (even Beni Baningime is ruled out now after limping out of the U21s’ defeat to Fleetwood), he can at least instruct the Frenchman to sit in front of the back four and just do the basics, track runners, and let Tom Davies to the box-to-box work.

The best-case scenario now is that Silva somehow inspires a couple of decent performances and results from the next two games to calm Evertonian nerves in terms of arresting the drift towards the bottom three while restoring some faith in the players. That would establish a platform of confidence to take into the home game against Chelsea, the cup quarter final against Leicester and League fixtures against two sides — United and Arsenal — that aren’t exactly firing on all cylinders themselves. Who knows, maybe Silva could stumble along and do enough by New Year to buy the Board time to line up his replacement and possibly wait until the summer to do it?

What that won’t and shouldn’t do is change anything in terms of the bigger picture. The Board must remain steadfast in the near certainty at this point that the club needs a different man as head coach. Unless he is able to engineer over the next few months a run of truly unexpected performances and results underpinned by consistent line-ups and an identifiable system that gets the most out of the squad at his disposal, Silva must be replaced. Moshiri and co. must be ruthless in that respect and use any time the current boss can give them to identify, interview and hire the best candidate they can to take Everton forward.

How difficult and uncomfortable it ends up being for Silva in the meantime will be unfortunate. It’s hard to feel any animosity for someone who seems to be a genuinely decent man who, away from the cameras, is more engaging and charismatic then his public persona would suggest, who has been afflicted by some pretty bad luck in his time at the helm but has simply been exposed as not up to the job he has been asked to do.

Football is a cruel mistress, though, and there can be no room for sentiment or weakness; Everton have to get this right now. Make the change, secure the best man they can attract to the job and hopefully get things moving in the right direction again as we look ahead to moving to the new stadium in a few years’ time.

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Brian Porter
1 Posted 28/11/2019 at 06:27:08
So the indecisiveness continues as we lurch from crisis to disaster. Delaying the inevitable is never a positive sign and Silva should have been dismissed way back after the Burnley game.

While a professionally, well-run club like Tottenham acted with speed and decisiveness in dispensing with the services of a manager who had just taken them to the Champions League final, Moshiri and his board of dithering amateurish followers leave us looking like a joke club, the laughing stock of the Premier League.

If we are in the bottom three by Christmas no-one will be surprised and if Silva is then sacked, what new manager will want to come in with the remit of avoiding relegation?

We are without doubt a club in crisis, being blindly led by the nose towards a yawning precipice, all because Moshiri doesn't want to admit he made a monumental blunder in head-hunting one of the worst managers in my memory after 60 years of supporting this once great club. I could cry when I see the state of my beloved Everton today, and the incomptents running it.

Jerome Shields
2 Posted 28/11/2019 at 06:55:52
I agree with the first post. The incompetence is staggering and Silva has been hung out to dry. It's obvious that a decision regarding the Manager's job, simply does not want to be taken or can't be taken.

The speculation regarding future Managers is just heresay. Actual candidates for the job are non existence, bar a few with mercenary intentions.

Pouchettino is the only potential Manager available and He will be hopeful that his record will attract the interest of Clubs who are in the mix for trophies. Though no-one is appearing to be knocking down his door at the moment. I suspect he wanted out earlier, but takers where in surprisingly short supply.

So Everton could be going forward in the immediate future aimlessly, with Silva in a Unsworth type situation.

The overall Management of Everton is pretty hopeless.

Jack Convery
3 Posted 28/11/2019 at 07:18:55
Schneiderlin couldn't track a runner bean.
David Thomas
4 Posted 28/11/2019 at 07:26:46
Is anyone really surprised with any of this.

Is this not simply how Everton have been managed for the last 30 years.

We simply don’t have the people at the top of the club who can be decisive and make the correct calls at the correct time.

We all saw how Spurs did their business last week yet I doubt any of us expected Everton to do the job so professionally.

We seem to stumble from one bad decision to another and I can’t see this cycle ever ending.

Dave McDowell
5 Posted 28/11/2019 at 07:31:29
Lyndon I don't see any benefit of playing Schneiderlin, the guy is total passenger far more than Sigurdsson.

At least Gylfi has a game changing moment in him, Schneiderlin is not only a liability with his ineffectiveness in his "defined role" but his lack of impetus affects the team in transition.

At least with Sigurdson in the deeper role we would have some creativity in a match we are probably going to lose anyway. He would for sure be more involved than the no mans land he finds himself in recent matches, and this quarter back role will give him more space to play.

I would play Sigurdsson as deep seated MF with Iwobi as AMF.

Note I state AMF as this obsession with the (for us mythical) number 10 role is laughable.

So move to a 442, so midfield of Bernard (who brought the best out of Digne), Sigurdsson, Iwobi, Walcott and Richarlson & DCL up top.

Plus it might give us move defensive solidity with the two banks of 4 and importantly it would force Leicester defensively to actually have to turn up for work instead of the free pass we have been giving opposition defenses by playing one attacker.

We don't have the players to play 433, and 4231 or whatever it is we are purporting to play, has clearly failed.

If Silva sticks with his same format that clearly fails he deserves no sympathy if any if left for him as it is.

Back to basics, lets get a draw or snatch a win and get the hell out of Dodge.

Tony Hill
6 Posted 28/11/2019 at 07:39:43
We will be horribly overrun in midfield in our next two games, I'm afraid. Of course, we must hope against hope.

As for the bigger picture, we have a Board unfit for purpose.

Hard to be optimistic. We need something or someone to come out of nowhere. And we need to buy a goal scorer in January.

James Hughes
7 Posted 28/11/2019 at 07:40:24
Our recruitment since Dour dave left has been bewildering to say the least.

Roberto was head scrathing but he did play wonderful football for most of a season. Then the reasons he got Wigan relegated become glaringly obvious.
Koeman never looked like he wanted to be here and why we chased him was a mystery.
Allardyce was and still is an insult to this club that claimed to be the soccer school of science.
Silva, well it has been said about him and even this happy clapper has had enough of him. Please get rid of him (The man will probably get a result on the 4th and will be forgotten.)

Whoever we get next wll be an indication of where we are headng. At the risk of sounding irrational or lacking in the grey matter, as some of the all knowing sages claim to be on here.
No way in a million years, for the love of all things Everton does TGT walk back in or the ex RS Rafa allowed in our dugout.

John Keating
8 Posted 28/11/2019 at 07:47:25
Personally I think Silva should have been binned weeks ago.
So we kept him on, however, after the disgraceful effort against Norwich, that should have been it.

I appreciate Lyndon's point about getting someone in after consideration rather than knee jerk. However I think every day he stays is another disaster.

In a way had Silva been binned at the weekend it possibly could have focused the players and made them realise the implications of their cowardly performances.

I agree he is a dead man walking but I think he should have walked a while ago.

Difficult to know who to replace him with. The latest name is this guy from South America, the David Essex lookalike.
After being told by our resident experts that old guys are out of touch, that their time has come and gone, Mourinho included in that list by the way. I find it strange an old foreigner most of us haven't heard of, does he even speak English? it now being mentioned.

An interim appointment for me.

Gary Willock
9 Posted 28/11/2019 at 07:48:59
“fast transitions and counter-attacking style he favours.” - eh?

If that’s true, and I’m not sure I agree, why would you play a spine of Mina, Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson and Tosun?

It’s equivalent of saying I favour warm holidays, and then going to Greenland in your speedos.

4-3-3 please:

Coleman Keane Mina Digne
Davies Iwobi Bernard
Kean DCL Richie

Clive Rogers
10 Posted 28/11/2019 at 07:50:49
I have no faith in the board to appoint the right man to save us and by the time they have made up their minds it may be too late anyway. Surely they must realise that relegation is is possible if not probable for a team that leaks goals, can’t create and can’t score.
Eddie Dunn
11 Posted 28/11/2019 at 08:02:32
Lyndon I agree with nearly all you say in your very well balanced article. I too have wondered if we could scrape a couple of decent results from the next two games, increasing confidence before the other fixtures, which are less daunting. My only difference is I wouldn't start Schneiderlin. The guy looked scared against Norwich, and doesn't really offer anything to the team. I watched on two occasions when he had opportunity to play a quick forward pass from the left to put us on the counter attack, but on both counts he played it backwards to Pickford or square to the centre back.

He is a fish out of water, looks bereft of confidence. I suspect he is playing to orders but like Dave McDowell @5, I would rather withdraw Sigurdsson to the holding role. His range of passing and awareness is superior.

I fully expect Coleman to be reinstated at right back, and his cameo off the bench suggests the rest has done him good.

This group has previously managed to raise their game for the bigger sides, so there is hope but long term I'm in full agreement with you that Silva's time is up. Even if we limp through to May and achieve mid table respectability, he has demonstrated his shortcomings in Groundhog Day style, seemingly to learn from his mistakes one week, only to make the same errors all over again a week later.

His tenure will be remembered as one of intransigence as he attempted to impose his dogmatic ideas on a group of players who are simply not equipped to it or can see the flaws in it. True, he has been let down by the loss of Gueye and failure to land a striker and injuries to key plsyers but all teams have similar problems and coaches are there to find a way through them.
It has been painfull to watch his postmatch interviews as well as his team, which apart from the odd 10 minute flash, has played some drab stuff.

It is incredible that many of us already feel like we just have to endure another 5 months of this season before we can dream again.
Steven Astley
12 Posted 28/11/2019 at 08:23:25
Yet more waffle, stating the obvious. What is the point?
Bill Fairfield
13 Posted 28/11/2019 at 08:35:02
Schniederlin tracking back and picking up the runners gives me nightmares,Todd Cantwells goal is a very good example of how pathetic he is
Rory Grant
14 Posted 28/11/2019 at 08:35:58
Complete lack of risk-analysis, risk-management and on top of it, decision-making by the club owners is scaring.
That Silva might not be capable was evident already last season and, especially in comparison to Spurs, this indecisive dithering is painful to follow.
There is definitely a point of no return in all this. A point where our worst fears can become a reality.
Fran Mitchell
15 Posted 28/11/2019 at 08:48:20
The board should have been sounding out replacements as soon as it became clear that Silva had blown the golden opportunity that was our relatively comfortable starting fixtures.

That was proof that he was not the man to take us forward.

For the board to have done nothing, and waited, basically, for us tonne in a relegation battle before acting, is a crime.

6/7 games ago, with our squad, finances and upcoming fixtures, a new manager could have arrived with the task of 'get us into the top 6:7' - now the task will be 'save us from relegation'

This will change dramatically the profile of manager we can attract.

And if the club still hasn't made contact with potential candidates, preferably one earmarked candidate, then they all deserve sacking.

Steven Astley
16 Posted 28/11/2019 at 08:48:28
Title of article is bang out of order.
Kevin Prytherch
17 Posted 28/11/2019 at 08:55:01
Schneiderlin tracking back when the other team is countering is pointless. He’s a waste of space when we are chasing a game / being the attacking team. He is out of his depth and has no clue what he is doing, he’s a liability, leaves gaping holes in midfield and frequently gets caught in no mans land - not really joining the attack or preventing the opposition from scoring.

That said - when we play the better teams he does still have a role to play. He is positionally disciplined (or lazy, depends on how you look at it) and doesn’t veer much from the space in front of the defence. That space is where the likes of Maddison and Tielmans like to play. Although he might not do much, that extra body limits the space on offer. Also, when we play the better teams we revert to a 4-4-2 defensively (unless Iwobi plays wide, then it’s a 4-3-2 + wherever Iwobi fancies playing) meaning that Schneiderlin is afforded plenty of cover in midfield. He also recycles the ball well.

I’ll be going against the grain here, but I believe that Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin struggle against the poorer teams but play better against the better teams. Therefore the only changes I would make for the Leicester game are Coleman returning (experience and better defensively) and DCL returning (him and Sigurdsson do well in pressing the opposition).

Roman Sidey
18 Posted 28/11/2019 at 08:55:39
I had this momentary fear that what the board is doing is delaying the sacking by a couple of weeks so that their replacement (which will probably be David "If you're not 35 you're playing on the wing" "fucking" Moyes) is met with a little less vitriol - starving dogs will eat what you throw them and all that.

Whomever they bring in is going to struggle until they can bring in:
- A goalkeeper who can kick to a team mate.
- A decent right-back
- Two decent centre-halves
- A decent holding-midfielder
- A decent striker who is actually schooled in the lost art of scoring goals
- A decent assistant coach
- A decent 1st team coach

That's a very long list but all of those things need checking off if this team is going to match it with anyone in the top half.

Kim Vivian
19 Posted 28/11/2019 at 08:59:03
Steven (16) I'm inclined to agree. I winced a bit when I read that this morning.
Derek Thomas
20 Posted 28/11/2019 at 08:59:26
Yeah Steve Astley; should have 'Walking the Blue Mile' at the end of it.

John Coffey himself would have a hard job resurecting this team. It makes me want to eff and blind like the governors wife.

Redemption is a long way off.

Jim Bennings
21 Posted 28/11/2019 at 09:03:55
I said about four weeks ago that the silence from our board and the people at the top at Everton was deafening.

When Silva was under pressure in October after the Burnley loss not one person at the club came out and made a reassuring statement that he was staying in the job for the duration of his contract.

What kind of atmosphere is this for the manager to work in, regardless of if he’s any good or not?

As it is now, we punish Silva by giving him two games in which we have no chance of winning and very little chance of even drawing.

I’ve said before that I don’t blame the manager for this situation.

Yes he’s out of his depth at Everton but he’s not the one who brought himself here and he’s also not the one who’s keeping himself in the job.

This I’m afraid is yet again all down to poor management on the boards behalf, we have been here before with the boardroom at this club, it’s the only place I look for blame and answers.

Roman Sidey
22 Posted 28/11/2019 at 09:07:10
Fran, bang on. With the fixture list in the opening 13 matches, they really should be on about 25-27 points.
Frank Sheppard
23 Posted 28/11/2019 at 09:22:34
A good article in my opinion, if anything a bit generous to Silva. Difficult to see where/how we can get any points in the foreseeable future, with the bottom 3 looking like a certainty. In the words of D-Rean, “ the only Way is up”, but that didn’t work for Blair & New Labour. What a disastrous mess we are in.
Jim Bennings
24 Posted 28/11/2019 at 09:36:03
The same board that is screwing Silva over right now instead of putting him (and us) out of our misery.

The same board that headhunted Marco Silva himself for almost a year prior to appointing him.

The same board that sat on its hands for more than a month and screwed with David Unsworth’s head instead of sacking Koeman and having a instant replacement (Spurs Mourinho appointment springs to mind).

The same board that were bent over the barrel by Sam Allardyce giving him a longer contract than planned in a complete and utter panic move, then having to pay him off handsomely.

The same board that sat by and watched Koeman and Walsh steer a rudderless ship into the iceberg during summer 2017.

The same board that sold Romelu Lukaku, knowing that he was a large percentage of our goals for three seasons, and have still to this day failed to find an adequate replacement for him.

So can we honestly put our hand on our hearts and say that we expect this board to get the removal of Marco Silva and the replacement of him spot on?

Tony Abrahams
25 Posted 28/11/2019 at 09:43:45
Sad state of affairs, but if he’s staying for Sunday’s game, everyone has to get behind Silva, or at least behind his team. I hate picking teams, (so why fuckin do it then?) but we have got to be hard to beat in the next three games, whoever is in charge of the team.

Pickford, Coleman, Mina, Holgate, Keane and Digne, would be my back five, six even. I’m praying for Delph to be fit to partner Davies, with Richarlison and DCL, either side of them and I’d try Moise Kean up front.

If no Delph, I’d play Sigurdsson, and I might also be tempted to play Iwobi, as a false nine, instead of Kean, because he has played wide midfield before (but lacks desire in this position imo) and can therefore interchange with either Lewin or Richarlison.

Just be hard to beat, get players closer to each other, and find a system that might help the players, especially if Lyndon’s title is true, because with nothing to lose, he might just gain a stay of execution if he can find a way to make better use of what he’s got, instead of playing players he doesn’t really rate, and sulking on the sidelines?

Jerome Shields
26 Posted 28/11/2019 at 09:54:39
I know hope springs eternal, but before you can recruit a Manager or player they need to be interested applying for the job.

Silva was the only Candidate available when the last Manager was replaced and Brands had a meeting with him, one week before his own contract started, so employment interviews had been conducted by others, who may have given consideration to Brands
opinion. Others potential Managers where approached, but where not interested.

It's same problem this time, but no preparation contacts have been made, after the last time maybe it was not thought worthwhile to do so.

The dilemma is finding a suitable interested Candidate or hoping Silva can get his act together, now that Finch Farm is back from their International break Holiday.

In regard to Everton we are all guilty of the same thing, having expectations beyond actual reality.

Sam Hoare
27 Posted 28/11/2019 at 09:56:31
Spurs are in a different position to us in that they are a much more attractive proposition for most managers and were fortunate that there was high class manager who has a fondness for London and was imminently available. It sounds like he had made himself availble to them for a while before as he turned down other jobs expecting that Poch may leave for Madrid. It was an open goal of sorts.

Our situation is not comparable. We don't have an available, high class manager who is ready and keen to step in. We have David Moyes. Or Mark Hughes.

Picking a new manager (be it interim or permanent) is obviously a huge decision for any football club and doing one mid-season comes with many complications, especially with the fixture run we have coming.

I'd rather make a good decision than a quick one. This will be Brands' first time to actually choose a manager. Let's see how it goes.

Steve Brown
28 Posted 28/11/2019 at 10:03:41
The slow pace could be because Moshiri and the board still hope that Silva can turn it around (I don't by the way before people get steamed up!). They will wait to see if he can navigate a set of results in the next 2-3 fixtures that means they can persevere with him until the end of the season.

The cost of removing the manager will take the bill for sacking the last 4 managers to over 25 million. The squad will be turned over again with a significant investment required which FFS rules will make difficult. Most importantly, the emerging short-list of Moyes, Howe or Arteta as managerial replacements is completely underwhelming.

If the board plan to launch a proper search now, it must be a carefully considered process as we cannot afford to make another mistake and waste 2-3 years. My personal view is that the board will need to act as Silva has not been thinking clearly all season and defeats by Leicester and Liverpool will bring it to a conclusion.

Neil Wood
29 Posted 28/11/2019 at 10:04:31

Coleman Holgate Mina Digne



Richarlison Kean Gordon

Steve Ferns
30 Posted 28/11/2019 at 10:20:41
Tony, Moise Kean won't be playing. He "liked" an Instagram post of Everton fans chanting your getting sacked in the morning. There's no way Silva will suddenly start him after that. More likely we will see Calvert-Lewin back in.

As Lyndon says Silva is hanging by a thread, so if he's doomed anyway, why not go out fighting? I'd go for an attacking team and take the game to Leicester with a high press:

Sidibe Mina Holgate Digne
Iwobi Sigurdsson
Richarlison Calvert-Lewin Bernard

Assuming Bernard is fit. I wouldn't play Delph unless he is 100%. If Bernard is not 100% Richarlison on the other side and use Walcott. I'd give Digne the armband over Sigurdsson, and Sigurdsson would need to show a reaction from last weekend and only gets in the side as it's him or Schneiderlin. I'd be demanding full throttle, maximum tempo football.

John Pickles
31 Posted 28/11/2019 at 10:20:58
I think everyone knows he's leaving, it's just whether it's before or after a replacement is found. A hard or soft Brexit (without many remainers) if you like.
Steve Ferns
32 Posted 28/11/2019 at 10:21:46
Neil, did you see Gordon get easily contained by League One Fleetwood?
Niall McIlhone
33 Posted 28/11/2019 at 10:32:04
I had high hopes that the Silva appointment would be an antidote to the dour Koeman and the execrable Allardyce percentage game, but Marco has failed, and failed badly at Everton. In fact, I feel that following the inexcusable showing on Saturday, he should have resigned, or the " mutual consent" trope could have been put out by the club, with a confidential settlement, not costing the club the entirety of his contract.

That would have allowed Silva at least some dignity, but managers rarely resign any more, especially in the Premier League where one big contract settlement will set a failed manager up for life? Managers have agents too, and Everton FC have sadly allowed themselves to become a money tree in paying off failures.

Get anybody in who can keep us up this season, even Moyes if he will accept a six month contract then Mosiri needs to do a root and branch restructuring of the dysfunctional board to offer fans hope of a better future at BMD.
Jim Bennings
34 Posted 28/11/2019 at 10:43:06
Whilst the absence of Schneiderlin satisfies ones thoughts, the inclusion of Coleman, Delph and Sigurdsson, three players whose legs have gone, doesn’t exactly bring a freshness.

Sidibe has done nothing to warrant being dropped for the underperforming Seamus Coleman, a player that has not been right now for a good year, and Coleman brings nothing in the way of forward running.

I’d be inclined to go with

Digne (must get his form sorted)
Sigurdsson (good for a goal)

I’d bring Kean (Moise) on with at least half an hour left if (as expected) we are chasing the game.

Richarlison really needs to start playing more centrally than hugging the wing, he’s useless out there and he’s our most clinical finisher.

Gary Willock
35 Posted 28/11/2019 at 10:51:42
Steve@32 - Messi was "contained" in roughly 50% of the games he played for Barca youth not sure that it should result in him not being given a go in favour of headless theo (who has been 'contained' plenty of times too).
Steve Ferns
36 Posted 28/11/2019 at 10:53:42
Yeah Jim, Richarlison needs to play more centrally, and should be looking to link up with Calvert-Lewin and moving into the space DCL creates when he drops deep to win a header or moves the ball out wide.And I agree on only playing one of Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin and Delph.
Jimmy Hogan
37 Posted 28/11/2019 at 10:55:01
Comparing our situation to the Spurs one is niaive. Firstly, Spurs still have a chance to win the Champions League, so they are an extremely attractive proposition to the top tier of managers. Secondly, Levy was able to sound out Mourinho and agree terms with him BEFORE sacking Pochettino and ensure that no void was created. I think we have to get real. We are not considered by non-Evertonians to be the equal of the Sky Six. We are viewed as one of the rest, no more no less. We are not an attractive proposition to the very best managers and I'm sure that is why the board is stalling on this.

We will either have to appoint someone from the second tier of managers (if any are available), or try to persuade someone like Mikel Arteta that now is the right time to make that move into management. I have no way of knowing this, but my hunch tells me that Arteta will see out this season with City and try to win the Champions League. I hope I'm wrong. Given that we only seem to win trophies when an ex Everton player is manager, I would love to see Arteta as manager and us having a real crack at the League Cup this season. UTFT.
Steve Ferns
38 Posted 28/11/2019 at 10:56:34
Gary, did you see the game? People are clamouring for a player they have seen a couple of clips of. I really rate the kid and think he will be a special player, but he is not ready. He had a poor game against Fleetwood. He wasn't just contained, but he was unable to do anything with the ball when he got it. The last thing we should do now is give him a start. He needs to be handled carefully.
Len Hawkins
39 Posted 28/11/2019 at 10:57:25
A few years ago two mates of mine bought a boat it looked good but once out of the water and a look over by a boat builder they were advised to get some petrol and a box of matches and set fire to it. It is a sorry state of affairs but that boat is now Everton FC it is rotten to the core Kenwright has finally brought this once great club to a rot infested pile of scrap 30 years of absolute dross no ambition not a ruthless streak in anyone at the club and a coaches room all teary eyed with the fat one of years gone by.

It is like a nursing home for failed Everton players and the sooner the petrol and matches are bought the better. If Usmanov is in the background why isn't he kicking Moshiri's backside and telling him to ship the dross out of the club because obviously no one else is giving him advice that works.
Rick Tarleton
40 Posted 28/11/2019 at 10:59:03
Your articles in recent weeks have shown great football acumen, Lyndon. I feel that the next two games have two possible scenarios. One, that we lose heavily to two of the top teams, the Liverpool game, of course, carries a lot of emotional baggage for most of us. Then Silva I suspect will no longer be walking. Or two, we get better than expected results and Silva keeps walking, probably until the next crisis.

I can't see a lot of good in the present Everton team, we have an unbalanced midfield, a ponderous defence and an attack without an obvious leader. Many of our players are talented and could go to good teams and fit in, but amongst our squad they are inadequate, because there simply isn't a team in terms of both the set-up and the ethos.

I want to see Silva go, but I've felt like that about all the managers of my lifetime except Catterick and Kendall Mark 1. The last cohort since Royle have been particularly disastrous. I've no strong feelings about who should succeed Silva. Arteta may be a mark 2 Guardiola, Howe might become even better with the backing of a bigger club, Dyche or Wilder may transfer their work ethic to our players, but there are no guarantees and I feel as pessimistic about Everton's future as I have ever done since I first saw them in 1953-4 in the old second division.
Tony Hill
41 Posted 28/11/2019 at 11:16:22
Steve @30, Kean's action as you correctly describe it was idiotic and treacherous, even in a 19 year old, and says a great deal about the player. It also, I fear, says a great deal about the mood in the team.
Brian Williams
42 Posted 28/11/2019 at 11:19:15
I wonder if the "just sack him now" brigade are the very ones who would be screaming their heads off for sacking him without having a replacement ready.

It's a precarious position we're in and the board have to try and get it right (don't laugh). Having said that they're wrong whatever they do in some people's eyes.

If the board are keeping him there for a modicum of stability until they can get an agreement with a very desirable manager then it's worth doing.

We'll just have to wait and see, which I know will piss of those of the Twatter, Facefook, and Instagram legions who need to know and need to know now!
Brian Williams
43 Posted 28/11/2019 at 11:23:18
"Dead man waking"

Definition (according to the Collins dictionary: informal

Any person in a doomed or untenable situation, especially one about to lose his or her job.

What's wrong with that Steven?

Pat Kelly
44 Posted 28/11/2019 at 11:32:05
We are in freefall. I don't expect any points from the next four games. We don't score and can't defend. This is now an existential threat to our PL survival.

Moshiri must rue the day he took a gamble on a business he knew nothing about. He has made some very costly errors, chiefly leaving an incompetent Board in charge. Maybe Brands can save the day by finding a suitably qualified manager. But then he hasn't found a suitable striker or CB.

Ciaran O'Brien
45 Posted 28/11/2019 at 11:36:48
I really wanted Marco to succeed. I really did l, even though I had reservations about his credentials for the job. I’m sick of the club having no plan and hiring and sacking managers on a whim and blowing a fortune in doing so.
If as expected, Silva loses his job over the next couple of weeks, we can’t appoint an interim manager. We need a new guy in who can build hopefully build something good over the next few seasons or so. Otherwise it’s just paying a fortune to someone who might only be in the job for six months. Look at the Red Shite, Klopp hired almost straight away after Rodgers got the chop with a long term plan in view and they’re unfortunately are seeing the benefits.

I don’t particularly want Moyes back after the way he left us and his subsequent failures since but if he is hired it can’t be on an interim basis. Plus his sides mostly lack any flair and our mostly negative.

Arteta would be an interesting choice but a huge gamble in that he’s never been the main man before but you never know. Our three greatest managers were ex players so perhaps history could repeat itself.

Howe maybe is ready for the step in but I fear about his defensive organisation since his Bournemouth side tend to leak goals and his big money signings like Lerma and Ibe have been average to disappointing.

No to Hughes, god forbid and Rafa. Rafa is on 12 mill a year in China and hasn’t been top class in a job since Napoli plus he called us a small club when he was with the Shite.

It’s highly unlikely that Poch or Allegri will come in since they’ll want gigs at top teams but there’s no harm in pitching ourselves to them. There’s no point in not trying.

Jesus is an interesting choice in that he has won lots in Portugal, Saudi Arabia and Brazil but has never managed in a top league. His sides do play good football and he himself is a bit Mental but maybe that’s what we need. Every team is a reflection of their manager and his sides are high octane and attractive to watch.

My point is if Silva goes or not, we need stability. We are starting to dangerously look like Villa and the Barcodes where they have both been relegated in the last 10 years. That would ruin the new stadium prospects and our future.

The board need to grow a set of balls and start running Everton like a proper modern club. We live too much in the past which gets you nowhere.

Niall McIlhone
46 Posted 28/11/2019 at 11:38:33
I, for one Brian(42), have not a clue what's going on or how high Mr Moshiri is aiming. I know nobody at Finch Farm, and the only professional sports journo I know is a Man United fan who says Everton FC have always been something of an anachronism in terms of media relations in the Premier League era! Make of that what you will.

As for social media, by and large, it's an utter waste of time IMHO and sometimes very damaging(Kean)

I guess what I'm saying is-you are right, but this Everton story is a panto that just keeps on giving, and the uncertainty is just giving rival fans (most notably the RS trolls) plenty of oxygen to have a go at the club -and us as fans.

Wheeling out the emotionally charged piece with Gomes and the fan letters stinks of Bill Kenwright to me: maybe I'm wrong, but Everton do have a tendency to look for "Disney moments" every time there's failure in the air (which is often).
Ryan Holroyd
47 Posted 28/11/2019 at 11:55:21
I feel abit for Silva.

He's not good enough and way out his depth.

But he's been massively let down by the recruitment side. Brands' signings this summer have been a disaster,coupled with siggurdson legs completely going. Richarlison has struggled for goals too.

You can't compare Everton to Spurs and do people really think spurs haven't been talking to Jose weeks before they signed him up.

Ryan Holroyd
48 Posted 28/11/2019 at 11:57:05
Spot On Brian Williams.
Derek Knox
49 Posted 28/11/2019 at 12:01:33
All this talk of the players being behind Silva, and the actions of Moise Kean which has been doing the rounds, surely makes a mockery of that.

Maybe Moise's actions were a trifle silly on his part, being fairly high profile, but it also goes to show how dangerous that Social Media Shit really is.

People post seemingly innocently, without realising the World and his wife are scrutinising every word. Getting back to Moise, I can understand his frustration, been bought for £29M (which is a lot for a teenager) and Silva rarely plays the lad. Another reason Silva has to go.

Steve Ferns
50 Posted 28/11/2019 at 12:05:02
Derek, so if one guy is behaving in such a way, then that means the rest of the players are not fully behind him?
Tony Everan
52 Posted 28/11/2019 at 12:13:35
It is amazing he his still here, as Brain #1 says, we were all waiting for a reaction in the Burnley game 6 weeks ago after losing 3 on the trot. What we got was more of the same disorganised football. There was nothing there , no reaction , I thought his time was up.

He must have some feline cat blood running through his veins how he escapes the reaper.

Lyndon's suggestion of a more 4-4-2 type of formation with DCL and Richie playing as a complementing pair is well worth a try. Some of us have been advoctiong this for many months to no avail. We just wait and hope and then get more of the same 4-2-3-1 and the same players in it, and the same results.

He has amazingly been given a lifeline. Win at Leicester and draw at Anfield [ or vice versa ] and he may get a reprieve.

Wasn't there a film ''Return of the Living Dead'' ?

Steve Ferns
53 Posted 28/11/2019 at 12:21:24
Tony, we play:
Sunday - Leicester (away)
Wednesday - The RS (away)
Saturday - Chelsea (home)

There's no time to sack Silva and get a new manager in. If he's still here for Leicester, which now looks certain, then he will still be here for Chelsea. Of course, if things go drastically wrong, then we could sack him and give it to Unsworth for a couple of games.

There is a gap between Chelsea (Saturday) to Man Utd (the following Sunday) and if he's going to get the boot then this is the most logical time to do it. After that the games come thick and fast, with the next break being after New Year's Day, where we have 10 days without a PL game, but there will be an FA Cup game on Saturday 4th Jan.

Anthony A Hughes
54 Posted 28/11/2019 at 12:22:19
I agree on the recruitment in the summer. The main areas of the team which needed improving weren't
Centre forward and centre half was a necessity. Iwobi stank of a panic buy, the strange chasing of Zaha, Sidibe was crocked and Delph is never going to play a full season.
Anthony A Hughes
55 Posted 28/11/2019 at 12:23:25
I agree on the recruitment in the summer. The main areas of the team which needed improving weren't.

Centre forward and centre half was a necessity. Iwobi stank of a panic buy, the strange chasing of Zaha, Sidibe was crocked and Delph is never going to play a full season.
Jay Wood

56 Posted 28/11/2019 at 12:29:11
Hang about!

For those of you across the spectrum of opinion saying that Moise Kean's reported liking of a Tweet of Everton fans singing 'You're getting sacked in the morning' is proof positive that:

1) He is a treacherous little shite
2) He is a spoilt brat
3) It is confirmation that Silva has lost the support of ALL the players

It may be NONE of those things.

There are a whole host of possible - and less malignant - reasons.

Celebrities, and that includes PL footballers, have their social media accounts managed by 3rd-party people. Faux pas and mistakes on what gets liked, shared, posted DO happen.

Even if the player himself liked the Tweet, that is not evidence of guilt. His English is not the best. He sees (possibly) a shaky video with poor audio of Evertonians singing and - without understanding the content - innovcently likes it.

Haven't we got more than enough to concern ourselves with rather than angsting over and leaping to extremely speculative conclusions on a 'like' on Twatternet?

Steve Ferns
57 Posted 28/11/2019 at 12:31:02
Jay, it was Instagram and you can see other stuff he liked. Of course Kean will tell Silva he did not realise what he did, but I'd be astounded if Kean starts on Sunday, but not just for that reason.
Mike Doyle
58 Posted 28/11/2019 at 12:37:25
Niall #46. Spot on. EFC continues to be the panto that keeps on giving.
Before they became wealthy, former BBC 'personality' (now disgraced) Stuart Hall used to refer to Man City as "The Theatre of Comedy". Plainly we have adopted their mantle - only it doesn't seem that funny.

The only thing I've got wrong this week was the teary Andre Gomes video. I was expecting our Chief Exec (Little Miss Dynamite) to announce another EiTC initiative - such as Unsie and his U23s on another sleep out.

Tony Everan
59 Posted 28/11/2019 at 12:40:12
Steve, I agree, the best strategy to have at the moment is keeping him in until next Sunday. Who knows what will happen in those 8 days ?

What results are good enough for a reprieve ? 5 points plus from those games ?...a win at Anfield ?. a draw against Leicester and and a win at home to Chelsea ?

If we lose 2 then win at home against Chelsea then there maybe some feelgood juices flowing keeping him here longer.

The penny may drop with regards to personnel and formations and things could start to turn around . Moshiri is loathe to sack him mid season and is craving some stability , even if it is until the summer.

Daniel A Johnson
60 Posted 28/11/2019 at 12:42:27
Is there a Premiership club that is more poorly run than us? I can probably think of Newcastle Utd and Watford and that's it.

Is anyone surprised at the state of the club considering the way its run at the top?

I actually feel sorry for Marco Silva its not his fault he's not been sacked. The hierarchy are hanging him out to dry and its a disgrace. What must the players also be thinking?

Jay Wood

61 Posted 28/11/2019 at 12:47:28
For those saying it is unreasonable to compare the decisive actions of Spurs to the dithering nature of the Everton board due to the former's current status, I don't think it is as you are not take into consideration where the respective clubs were just 5 short seasons ago.

In Martinez's 1st season we finished above Spurs in 5th. They were 6th. Poch was appointed at Spurs that summer and their finishing positions under him since were 5th-3rd-2nd-3rd-4th, compared to Everton's 11th-11th (both Martinez)-7th (Koeman)-8th (Dog's Dinner)-8th (Silva).

In those years they have become regularly CL qualifiers, climaxing in reaching the final last year. But because they have high ambitions AND a plan, it wasn't enough to save Poch's job in the wake of an exceedingly poor 2019 in the PL.

Together with the state-of-the-art stadium they are now housed in, all of that wasn't down to chance that last week they were in a position to attract such a high-profile manager as Jose Mourinho.

IMO then, it is perfectly justifiable to contrast two very similar clubs and where they were 5 years ago, to where they are now, and how they are conducting their business.

I know which model I prefer.

Steve Ferns
62 Posted 28/11/2019 at 12:48:13
Tony, if he got 5 points, we'd be in around 10th and Moshiri will give him until the window opens, as he's supposedly promised him (before the Norwich debacle).
Jerome Shields
63 Posted 28/11/2019 at 12:48:35
Actually Gareth Barry is looking increasingly are best midfielder for years in retrospect.
Dave Evans
64 Posted 28/11/2019 at 12:50:30
Lots of posts saying this is all very bad and has been for a while ( As if the rest of us don't know}.
Not too many opinions on who to replace Silva. Here's a list-

Poch - Probably won't come here without a kings ransom per year. Then probably still won't come.
Wenger and Benitez - Stop mentioning them. They are moving countries and taking up new lucrative jobs,
Moyes interim - Stand by for posters saying they don't support Everton anymore and dramatic ripping up of season tickets.
Arteta, Cahill combinations - Even if they are an available option, apparently they are considered too risky or a continuation of the culture of Kenwright's Everton old boys network.
Dyche, Wilder, Howe etc - Considered by many as not good enough. Not in line with high aspirations. Nil Satis Nisi Optimun and all that.
Ancelotti - see one of the above
Some, unheard of by many, achieving manager from the Dutch, European or South American leagues - Too much of a gamble. The premier league has eaten many a good manager from other leagues for breakfast.

My opinion is we get rid of Silva if he does not beat Leicester and the R.S.
Then, who ever of the above or other we decide upon, we set them a one or two season target. If they don't achieve it we get rid quickly and hire someone else. We keep doing this 'spinning of the wheel' until we get a manager who moves us forward.
A manager who proves he can coach, improve and motivate players. One who can give us the aggressive, quick and flexible football we as fans deserve to see.

Steve Ferns
65 Posted 28/11/2019 at 12:51:40
Jay, but don't fall into the trap of Mourinho being appointed in 12 hours. They announced it 12 hours after the sacking, but the sacking was only confirmed once the appointment was completed. Don't forget Mourinho was offered a job in france (Lyon) and their President said Mourinho turned it down as he had accepted a job in the Premier League, and this was back on 10th October. These things take a lot longer than we imagine they do.
Ken Kneale
66 Posted 28/11/2019 at 13:07:49
Jay You could have added in that one of the Clubs at the start of the Premier league was 2nd in the overall title winning and points gained for the top league with an unparalleled football heritage in top flight football and a 'who -is-who- of British football greats amongst it former players over that period. For good measure add in firsts such as stadium development and design, undersoil heating and hosting world cup semi finals. Finish off with a reputation for winning by playing fluent attractive football. But then I suppose there is no need. The Kenwright era has consigned us and such matters to the recycle bin and rewritten history with Everton as a small club playing the underdog. Like you, I know which I prefer.
Steven Astley
67 Posted 28/11/2019 at 13:12:03
Brian, because it is lacking in class and to be quite honest, quite immature.
But ok, you choose to refer to Google and the Collins Dictionary (!!!) But we all know where the phrase originates. I don't really need to explain further, do I?
Daniel A Johnson
68 Posted 28/11/2019 at 13:18:30
Steven 67 think you're going way OTT with this.

its just a coin of phrase that has many applicable uses. It doesn't mean SIlva is actually walking the Green Mile after being fed his last supper and given his last rites.

Jim Bennings
69 Posted 28/11/2019 at 13:25:23
Are people actually mentioning outcomes “IF” we win at Anfield?

There’s more chance of me waking up on Mars tomorrow than us beating them anywhere, let alone Anfield. (Martin Atkinson is on VAR you know?).

I still stand by what I said, the board are hanging Silva out to dry by keeping him on for Sunday.

So we lose Sunday, another defeat everyone blames the gaffer so what happens next?

Keep him on for the expected loss at Anfield and then make ourselves look even more ridiculous by sacking him after two games we were unlikely to get anything from anyway?

Or sack him on Monday, 48 hours before the biggest game of our season so far and then cluelessly stick one of the coaches in charge for the derby ( I very much doubt we’d go back to Unsworth not would he be too quick in taking it) after what happened last time.

If our board were going to act then it had to be this week, the stay of execution is nothing more than that, execution for Marco Silva.

Can anyone imagine if we lose both these away games and Silva is still here at home to Chelsea next Saturday?

The atmosphere will be toxic.

Is that fair on the man really?

He came to the club, he tried, he’s failed because for whatever reason he’s not been up to it, been let down by players, let down by Brands and has not shown he can work in difficult circumstances.

Jay Wood

70 Posted 28/11/2019 at 13:27:12
Meanwhile, here in Brazil on Jesus Jorge watch, Flamengo played their 35th league game of the season last night, having binged and partied through Sunday and Monday.

They played lowly Ceara, a team in danger of relegation. It did not start well for the 'Mengo. Gabigol was absent due to suspension. They looked listless and less incisive than normal and went a goal down from a poorly defended goal on 27 minutes.

Jesus did a 'Silva-on-Moise' move, only earlier! He started our one-time target Renier Jesus, but on 37 minutes Jorge had seen enough and yanked him off and replaced him with another promising youngster, Vitinho.

JJ had been going ape-shit on the touchline. At one point, the ref came over to tell him to keep in his technical area because he was not just going out of it laterally, but encroaching on the pitch itself as the game was in play! JJ raised his hand in acknowledgment and shook the ref's hand.

He obviously got into the team at half-time because they were a team transformed 2nd half. Ceara had comfortably kept them at arm's length in the 1st half. In the second, they barely ever got beyond the centre circle of their own half.

Jesus basically went three at the back, one deeper sitting midfielder, two attacking midfielders and four up top. It was just wave after wave of attacks on the Ceara goal.

It took a while, but on 65 minutes Bruno Henrique finally equalised. He scored two more on 74 and 85 minutes to complete a hat-trick. That puts him on 21 goals for the league season, just one behind Gabigol's 22. Tasty numbers, right?

The kid Vitorinho added a fourth in injury time to further vindicate Jorge's pro-active changes.

After 9 games before Jorge Jesus arrived, Flamengo was 8 points adrift of the leaders with a modest:
P 9 W 5 D 2 L 2 F 15 A 9 Pts 17 record.

In the 26 games under Jesus it reads:
W 21 D 4 L 1 F 62 A 22 Pts 67 out of a possible 78.

They are 16 points clear of the 2nd and 3rd placed teams - an upswing of 24 points. Again, tasty numbers.

Jorge Jesus said pre-match he won't allow any cruising to the end of the season, that he wants to break all the records that are in their reach. The players repeated the same post-match, repeating was has became a Jorge Jesus catchphrase from this season: "Ate o fim." "Until the end." Basically, no surrender until the final whistle as demonstrated in the Libertadores final on Saturday.

The championship trophy was presented to them last night. And the sweetest sound to me was hearing the 70,000 crowd singing, in anticipation of the upcoming World Club Championship:

"O Liverpool pode esperar, sua hora vai chegar!"

"Liverpool you can wait - your hour is coming soon!"

Here's hoping on that front.

Jay Wood

71 Posted 28/11/2019 at 13:39:06
Steve @ 65.

"Jay, but don't fall into the trap of Mourinho being appointed in 12 hours."

Do you believe me to be so naive, Steve?

You serve to reinforce the point I'm making. Spurs were not blinded by the considerable achievement of reaching the CL final. They noted the dreadful PL form in 2019 and the inability to win on the road, whereas up to January they had already registered ELEVEN away wins last season, only one since - the weekend game v WHU under Mourinho.

They recognized there was a problem. They decided on the kind of profile they wanted as a replacement manager and went LARGE. No thought of caretaker managers, or looking backward to previous incumbents, or lower league managers with potential, or recruiting in-house like us.

Of COURSE there were meetings and discussions well before the 12 hour window in which Poch was sacked and Mourinho appointed. All exceedingly slick and professional.

They showed how a professionally run and competent club deal with the inevitable that all clubs face.

It's not a description you can apply to Everton without bursting out laughing.

Jay Wood

72 Posted 28/11/2019 at 13:44:06
Steven Astley @ various.

"I don't really need to explain further, do I?"

To be frank Steven, you haven't explained ANYTHING other than to take sly pops at Lyndon without engaging in the content or topics.

Each to their own, 'n all that.

Steve Ferns
73 Posted 28/11/2019 at 13:46:39
Jay, you'll also know that Pochettino was openly criticising Spurs from the summer. He was playing a dangerous game and trying to use the fans against the board. Once results dipped, Levy was always going to get rid of Pochettino. I think he would have been doing it since the summer. Levy was waiting for the right set of circumstances to get rid without causing problems amongst the fan base.

Thanks for the match report. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Very well written. I expect a full one for the World Club Cup Final.

Jay Wood

74 Posted 28/11/2019 at 13:59:48
Steve, even my Spurs mates who wanted Poch to stay and - comically! - overnight until the next morning stated "anyone but Mourinho!", acknowledged the Argentinian did not box clever over the summer, least of all in trying to take on Levy.

They both agreed there is only ever one winner in a slugfest with Levy, and it's never the other guy!

They still heavily sympathized with Poch because he had a point. In the last few transfer windows they have not moved on players they needed too and have barely recruited the players that were required to freshen up the squad. That's down to Levy.

That said, it is telling that the likes of Vertongen and Alderwereld are now both talking of staying under JM, possibly hinting that there was some sort of rift under Poch as some media outlets reported.

Back to Everton, I tried to watch the U21s v Fleetwood but couldn't find anything. It sounds as if you did and that sadly, Anthony Gordon wasn't at the races.

No need to expose the lad prematurely then, least of all in the current hiatus.

David Pearl
75 Posted 28/11/2019 at 14:01:54
I have no problem with Walcott or Schneiderlin... or Tosun and Sigurdsson. What l do have a problem with is making sure the front 3 are at the front and not running back down the wings. Keep them up top and close to the central forward. Simple. Let the forwards play as forwards. Let the Number 10 do the box-to-box work. We have much better players than those teams around us so let them play.

I'd also bring Coleman back in. He's a better player than Sidibe. Baines is also being wasted. I agree though, as we don't seem to have the kind of midfielder than can put his foot on the ball and create from the back then we have use the energy of our players instead to play on the front foot. The guide of Bernard has been missed. But it's age old conundrum of not knowing our best 11 or best formation. Obviously Silva thinks it's 4-2-3-1.

I'm thinking however that he will play 4-1-4-1 these next two games. Maybe even a 5-4-1 and look to counter. Anyway we needs us a circus mouse.

Daniel A Johnson
76 Posted 28/11/2019 at 14:02:09
Shameful to think the club are going to let Silva walk out at Anfield only to be ridiculed and shouted at by them idiots when the inevitable cricket score line happens.

Getting sacked in the morning will be chanted for the last 20 minutes from all sides, I can guarantee.

Ray Roche
77 Posted 28/11/2019 at 14:27:26
Daniel, your last paragraph. I hope we’re a better set of fans than to treat a man, albeit an incompetent one, like that at their place. I would feel ashamed even more than usual if we behaved like that.
Steve Ferns
78 Posted 28/11/2019 at 14:42:20
Jay the entire u21 side looked rubbish, except for Oumar Niasse who led a resurgence late in the first half. Antony Evans was alright but kept drifting out of the game, and he grazed the outside of the post with a free-kick. Baningime was not having a good game, but he kept running and battling, but he took a few knocks and was forced off. Which he will be devastated about because if he had had a good game then he could have had a shout at the first team place. Our impressive 16 year old, Tyler Onyango, came on for him, but had a game to forget and got subbed off.

Gordon was well contained. Clearly identified as the Everton dangerman and only once did he get the ball in a dangerous area but his shot wasn't good enough. Other than that he was anonymous.

Here's the highlights: Link

Sam Hoare
79 Posted 28/11/2019 at 15:01:02
Jay, no doubt that Spurs's board have done a considerably better job than Everton over the last 5 years when we were in a more similar position.

But at this particular point in time we are a long way apart. They are a considerably more attractive proposition in terms of finances, squad, geography, profile etc.

This is why I don't think its fair to compare their sacking of poch and getting of Mourinho to our predicament. We don't have such an illustrious manager waiting in the wings.

Daniel A Johnson
80 Posted 28/11/2019 at 15:04:46
Ray 77,

I'm sure our away fans wont in nay shape or form but you know what's coming from them lot at Anfield, any excuse to have a laugh at our expense.

Its going to be100% cringe and embarrassing for us all.

Neil Lawson
82 Posted 28/11/2019 at 15:19:18
Yes. Schnederlin in a deep sitting role. Sitting deep in the dugout.
Bobby Mallon
83 Posted 28/11/2019 at 15:31:19
My team going forward:


Gary Willock
84 Posted 28/11/2019 at 15:34:30

No, I didn’t see the Fleetwood match, but I’ve seen the lad on several occasions in the last year and believe he is a talent. Compared to Theo, who has had one good game all year, I think he’s worth a shot. We’ll only know when he’s actually given one, but using one game as some kind of evidence he shouldn’t be given a shot is nuts. Everyone has a stinker sometimes.

Bobby Mallon
85 Posted 28/11/2019 at 15:35:32
I put Lössl in because I think Pickford needs a talking to. Every time we get a goal kick, we may as well just give the opposition a throw-in in their half.
Ray Roche
86 Posted 28/11/2019 at 15:36:42
Daniel A Johnson @80,

I know what you mean Daniel, a more odious bunch you'd hard pushed to find. I'd like to watch the derby but I think I'll be washing my hair that night.

Jay Wood

87 Posted 28/11/2019 at 15:39:05
Sam @ 79.

Your 1st and last paragraphs serve to reinforce the very point I'm making.

Namely, we were on equal footing with them 5 years ago, but Spurs had a vision and plan in place which unquestionably they are achieving, whereas Everton's 5 year plan appears to have been written on the back of an envelope that got thrown out with the rubbish.

A direct consequence of the contrasting models is that they ARE in a position today where they can recruit a triple AAA+ manager, whilst we go digging up the corpse of an co-manager to 'caretake' us.

Ed Prytherch
88 Posted 28/11/2019 at 15:44:02
If Silva's reprieve is just for one game before Duncan is named interim manager then I have no doubt that he will have the boys fired up for the shite.
Kim Vivian
89 Posted 28/11/2019 at 15:55:27
Is this world club thing going to be available to watch over here, does anybody know?
John P McFarlane
90 Posted 28/11/2019 at 16:13:25
Kim 89 You'll be pleased to know that the BBC in their quest to annoy Evertonians on a daily basis have decided to show every game from the tournament live, but I'm not sure if it's on mainstream or via internet or red button. I note that Jorge Jesus is contracted with his club until May 2020, therefore I expect the return of David Moyes is looking more likely by the day, harrumph.
John P McFarlane
91 Posted 28/11/2019 at 16:19:10
Jay 87 At what point in Everton's history did the club's hierarchy appoint a AAA+ manager - Catterick and or Kendall perhaps but neither had a proven track record prior to arriving and both had previous links with the club as players. Apparently Moshiri isn't keen on Moyes as he wants somebody who will excite the fans, I wish him all the best in achieving that feat.

Ray Roche
92 Posted 28/11/2019 at 16:19:48

Moyes is allegedly saying that he's only interested in a "long term contract".

Just as I'm only interested in banging Katy Perry senseless and I imagine I'll have as much success as that dinosaur does in blagging a contract far beyond his capabilities.

Ray Roche
93 Posted 28/11/2019 at 16:23:09

To be fair, Catterick got Sheffield Wednesday promoted in 1959, took them to a semi final in '60 and got them to runners up behind the great Spurs double winning side. And then did wonders at Everton. He certainly had something about him.

Andrew James
94 Posted 28/11/2019 at 16:28:41

BBC have just announced they're showing the matches.

Jay Wood

Thanks for the detailed report about Flamengo. A few things that I have been wondering about the best South American leagues given that so many of their best players come to Europe - how would you compare them to European leagues in terms of quality?

When I was watching the match on Saturday, the tempo did seem slower than the Premier League (admittedly most leagues are) although it was more open. Is that the case in your opinion?

I suppose these questions come to mind because it seems to me that South American players need to come to Europe quite young like Suarez or Richarlison to adapt. With Funes Mori, we brought him over in his mid-20's from River Plate so you'd have expected him to be a super star for us but it never happened.

Forgive my ignorance as I rarely see the club matches like your good self.

Mike Gaynes
95 Posted 28/11/2019 at 16:45:36
Mr. McFarlane, nice to see you posting here, sir! Been a while.

John P McFarlane
96 Posted 28/11/2019 at 16:46:38
Ray @93, I hadn't realised that the Catt with Sheff Wed had finished runners-up to the great Spurs team - although he had joined Everton with a couple of games remaining. Did he join Everton following the Owls' defeat at Spurs which meant they couldn't win the title?

John P McFarlane
97 Posted 28/11/2019 at 16:47:25
Cheers Mike - I hope you are keeping well too.
James Hughes
98 Posted 28/11/2019 at 16:53:43
Ray can you be more careful in future with your mobile number please.
That bloody Katy Perry won't stop calling and will not accept I am not Ray. She's keen on a date and will even go halves on the bill.

I think you got a couple of numbers in the wrong order mate. Good luck :0
Kim Vivian
99 Posted 28/11/2019 at 17:13:10
Thanks John and James.

Next question - and it shows my reason for my last question (I'm not interested in watching the RS)...
Has this Gorge Jesus thing actually got legs? Or has everyone (media included) got carried away off the back of Jay's flamboyant acclamation of the man. He's certainly piqued my interest.

Andrew James
100 Posted 28/11/2019 at 17:22:39
The problem we have is our structure. How is Brands meant to tell Moshiri to let Silva go when two or three of our major squad gaps haven't been plugged by Brands over 3 transfer windows?

This is why it got very dangerous for Koeman when we couldn't distinguish who was signed by who. When it looked like he wanted Davy Klaassen and Nikola Vlasic - that arguably they were his choices and not those of Walsh - he couldn't distance himself from the crazy recruitment. Silva is still able to.

We're in a silly situation where the DOF structure has meant that insufficient recruitment limits the tools the coach has to work with. To compound that, ironically, the club cannot then replace the coach because the DOF hasn't got anyone else lined up. So who is more to blame for the current malaise?

I like Brands and respect his achievements in the Netherlands yet the only excuses I can give him is that he didn't choose Silva and has had to balance the books that were mishandled before he came in.

It's maddening. Those who like Silva will - if he goes - point to what might have been had he been given an established striker or centre half. Those judging Brands cannot truly know his value until we get a coach he picks and after several windows to bring balance to the squad that was so poorly managed in 2017.

It only emphasises that if you have a plan, stick to it. Don't say you're doing one thing and then interfere and compromise it so it becomes a free for all and there's no accountability.

Andrew James
101 Posted 28/11/2019 at 17:40:17

It terms of feasibility, getting JJ in appears, in theory, not to be that far fetched. He apparently wants to return to Europe and we're of the sort of size and possess the resources to attract him.

But I don't buy it. He's got no Premier League experience, has had more clubs than a golf caddy and is volatile.

Unless that's the new approach. We've tried dour, we've tried blind optimism, perhaps now we're after a lunatic in the dugout.

Bill Watson
102 Posted 28/11/2019 at 17:52:51
John #91

Catterick was certainly a highly rated manager and, as Ray pointed out, his Sheff Wed side finished runners up to the great 'Spurs double winning team.

I think it was the following season (when Harry was Everton manager) that they beat us 0-4 at Goodison with Tony Kay bossing the midfield (for them) and being roundly booed everytime he touched the ball

When Carey was sacked I think Everton were about 5th in the table but that wasn't considered good enough by John Moores. How times have changed!

The 'Spurs management change was very reminiscent of when Catterick was appointed. No messing about; dismiss the incumbent and almost immediately announce his successor.

Paul Hewitt
103 Posted 28/11/2019 at 17:54:13
Well I'm totally behind Moise Kean if he did like that tweet. Giving Silva one more minute, never mind one more games as manager of this club is crazy.
Jay Wood

104 Posted 28/11/2019 at 18:12:42
Andrew @ 94.

In answer to your questions, it's not easy to make a direct comparison on the quality of the respective leagues. What I will say is that they are extremely competitive.

This is all the more so when, as you may have seen on Saturday, the two competing teams are from Brazil and Argentina. In any sporting event between the two nations, the rivalry is intense and absolutely no quarter is asked for or given on either side.

Did you notice, for example, how many 'blood injuries' occurred in Saturday's final, to head, nose and mouth? That is pretty commonplace. And the attitude amongst defenders in domestic leagues is pretty much 'maybe the ball or the man may get past me, but never both together!'

It may go some way to explaining why South Americans are regarded as serial divers. It's about self-protection as much as anything else, riding the inevitable foul that is coming your way.

I have read on here in recent weeks that futsal, first developed in Brazil, is directly responsible for the advent of 'simulation' amongst Latin American players. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Futsal, by its very rules, encourages the exact opposite. Following a foul, the wronged team has 4 seconds to restart, or the play gets turned over to the opposing team. So doing a Neymar death roll and delaying the restart penalizes your team.

A futsal ball is also smaller than a standard ball, filled with foam so it barely bounces. The result is that the most effective way to play with it is rapid ground passing.

Every day in Brazil I can see kids of all ages playing football with a futsal ball (or a homemade equivalent!) on the streets or wasteland, rather than use a standard ball, say, a British kid may get for Xmas.

Many a giant of world football - from Pele right through to modern-day CR7 and Messi - credit futsal with honing and improving their skills and technique which they later transferred to full-scale football.

It results in early development of technique, close ball skills, quick short passing (futsal is played in a confined space), positional and tactical awareness and ALWAYS being switched on to what is happening around you, due to the 4-second restart rule.

But back to the quality of the leagues. Based primarily on my experience of Brazilian league football, pretty much all professional players are technically gifted and sound on the ball, including goalkeepers!

Once a laughing stock and the position taken up by the least gifted player, you now have Brazilian guardians of the net at the likes of both City and Liverpool. The goalkeeper's of today play football in a manner unheard of even just 20 years ago. And that originates again from Latin America.

On the question of the tempo, as you yourself say, the PL is possibly an exception to even European leagues. Although transition from front to back can be razor sharp and rapid, that only occurs once the opportunity presents itself. Possession football most definitely rules in Latin America and it's probably a combination of two particular factors:

1) the higher technical skills with the ball at their feet by ALL players. They are happy to give and receive the ball in seemingly tight situations which would have a British crowd having a coronary and yelling 'Get rid! Welly it!'

2) the climate. Of course, north to south Latin America is huge and diverse, covering tropical to temperate climes, coastal to semi-desert, tropical rain forest to the high Andes. But when a Gringo like me struggles to simply cross the road in the heat of the day when they are playing a full-on game of footy, it's no wonder the tempo is different.

I don't agree with you that South American players necessarily need to go to Europe quite young to adapt. There are just too many factors to take into consideration as to if a player will make it or not.

I'm betting, for example, that Gabigol, who Inter Milan picked up aged just 20, but who has never been given a fair run in Europe, will have hugely benefitted from his two loan spells back in Brazil - top league scorer last season with 18 with Santos, current lead scorer with 22 with Flamengo this season - and now just turned 23 will eventually impress in Europe.

One more point. Football wages and contracts in Brazil. Many, many, MANY professional footballers barely make the minimum wage, that is IF the club even pays their wages. Plenty of stories of clubs simply not doing that.

The majority only get single season, or even rolling game-by-game contracts. Brazil's poor employment laws affords them little or no protection. For this very reason, huge numbers of Brazilian footballers ply their trade overseas.

We only hear about the mega-successes of, for example, Brazilian footballers. So it will possibly amaze you that a recent census revealed that no fewer than 10,000 Brazilians play professional football at some level all around the world.

I'll type out that number to confirm it: TEN THOUSAND!

Where I think Brazil lags behind Europe is in the quality of their top ranked coaches/managers, something the current Brazil manager Tite also bewails.

This is due to a combination of the hire and fire culture of Brazilian football. I believe I'm right in saying that this season alone, 17-18 of the Serie A 20 clubs have replaced their manager, some more than once! There is also not the structured progressive coaching qualifications in place that UEFA insists on, so any old Joe could 'coach' even a Serie A team.

Beyond the likes of the legendary Zagallo, Carlos Parreira, Felipe Scolari and maybe Dunga, how many Brazilian coaches can you recall who have succeeded outside of Brazil at club level? No, me neither.

I hope the above gives you a helpful insight on how I regard Latin American football compared to Europe.

John G Davies
105 Posted 28/11/2019 at 18:26:04
Bottom line is that they definitely will have been approaching potential new managers. The fact that Silva has not gone shows the board have not received positive response.

But what manager would want to take over given our next 4 or 5 fixtures? A new manager is more likely in January. Unless Marco can turn it around.

Stephen Waller
106 Posted 28/11/2019 at 18:37:28
David @4. I'm with you mate Rafa would do a great job. Silva is not only proving to be a poor manager hes also an unlucky one which is the worst possible combination in football at any level. If we stick with him we will definately be a championship team next season.
Drew O'Neall
107 Posted 28/11/2019 at 19:31:28
Fuck Schneiderlin! I’d rather put Baines (or anyone) in than have that vacuum in the team.
Tony Abrahams
108 Posted 28/11/2019 at 19:51:41
I can’t believe Baines hasn’t played for Everton this season, and like a horse that suddenly starts winning when it’s blinkered, then I’m hoping for the opposite in the case of Marco the isolator Silva.
David Pearl
109 Posted 28/11/2019 at 20:09:30

l've been saying that all season. Baines has had some minor injuries but, for the most part, is just wasting away. Digne doesn't have to play every minute.

Weird management style this Silver (only not spelt the same). So scared to change a winning. Of course if he changed his winning team for Norwich we would be all over that too. He can't win either way.

Tony Abrahams
110 Posted 28/11/2019 at 20:14:04
If I’d honestly sooner play with ten men than Schnederlin, then I’d play Baines on one leg David
David Pearl
111 Posted 28/11/2019 at 20:25:18
Martínez wanted to turn Baines into a midfielder to prolong his career. Why have him sign a contract then not give him a single minute, he deserves better. I’ve noticed city and the rs rotate their full backs. Then again they have a core bunch and a shape and playing style. We have kick and rush.
David Connor
112 Posted 28/11/2019 at 20:25:50
What a bloody joke. Typical Everton fucking around as usual. Will it ever change? Should have got shut at 5pm last Saturday... Amateurs.
Danny Baily
113 Posted 28/11/2019 at 20:48:42
Rafa has experience of the managing in the Championship. With a firm commitment he'd stay on should we get relegated then he's the standout candidate for the job.
Phil Sammon
114 Posted 28/11/2019 at 20:54:50
David 111

‘We have kick and rush.'

I wish we did, David! We have something more like ‘Pass and plod'.

Andrew James
115 Posted 28/11/2019 at 20:58:11

Putting it out there but given the injury crisis in the middle and potentially Gylfi having to drop back or Iwobi play in the No 10 instead of out wide, with Bernard injured, I'm not sure why we didn't play Baines on the left in front of Digne.

He was always better going forward so why not ask him to play as a left midfielder? Having two left footers coming down the left to either over lap or cross would have been an interesting idea.

I've always been intrigued by the Martinez suggestion that Baines could play in a Gareth Bale role but never really felt he was tall enough for that but I don't think playing him on the left side is all that unrealistic. It would have shown some outside the box thinking from our coach but never mind.

I am sure someone will tell me it's a terrible idea.

Bobby Mallon
116 Posted 28/11/2019 at 21:08:11
Lyndon we are only 4 points off 6th
Dave Williams
117 Posted 28/11/2019 at 21:14:02
Whilst I have never been a Silva fan, I can't help feeling for him at the moment. As the title of this thread suggests, he is on borrowed time now and his only hope of surviving is to conjure a couple of decent results and performances out of Leicester and Liverpool away.

What a crap position to be in, having to rely on such a bunch of wimps as our first team to save not only your job but probably your last chance of managing in England.

I cannot help but think he will stick with the terribly slow unit of Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin and Delph... in which case, we could get annihilated by both of the opposition.

He needs fighters and there aren't many. If only Duncan, Ebbrell and Unsy were available – that would give him a start. As it is, he has Seamus, Yerry, Lucas, Tom, Richi and Dom who will all give their maximum. Iwobi must play, as must Bernard if fit, and I'd play Delph alongside Tom if he is fit. Holgate is better suited to keeping watch on Vardy.

It doesn't look a bad team on paper and it will boil down to whether he can send them out hell-bent on saving his job and prepared to fight and scrap their way to at least a point.

The team he picks and how they apply themselves will tell us all we need to know about Silva – does he have it in him to gather himself and meet the challenge head-on or will these games be further embarrassment for our great club?

Tony Abrahams
118 Posted 28/11/2019 at 21:21:51
I never saw what Martinez, said about Baines playing midfield, Andrew, but he played there for a bit in one game, and he played forward, he played quick, and he's definitely always played for the Everton shirt, so it's a no-brainier to play Leighton over no heart, even if he hasn't even played one game all season up to now.
Mike Gaynes
119 Posted 28/11/2019 at 21:25:10
Dave #117, excellent summary.

Pat #44, you may not agree but I consider Yerry Mina a VERY worthy CB who will eventually become a mainstay for the club.

Andrew James
120 Posted 28/11/2019 at 21:43:43

I think it was halfway through Martinez's tenure when we still listened to what he was saying as opposed to weeping quietly in a corner as he told us about phenomenal moments.

He made the comparison with Lahm at Munich.

He's a tidy footballer who reads the game well, would give us another option at set pieces and his penalty taking is superior to the current incumbent.

I'm not saying he'd play every game, but I am disappointed Silva hasn't utilised the squad better instead of naming the same guys when they're not performing.

Drew O'Neall
121 Posted 28/11/2019 at 21:49:12
Iwobi has to play 10.

Schneiderlin has to remain out of the side and Davies has to play.

The front free has to be selected from (in this order); Richarlison, Bernard, Calvert-Lewin, Walcott, Kean.

Sidibe has to remain the right back.

The keeper, Mina and Digne pick themselves.

Apart from that, do what you want.

It’s so fucking simple and obvious, I don’t know how he could have got it so wrong last weekend.

Paul Birmingham
122 Posted 28/11/2019 at 21:51:28
Realistically I don’t see any change for a couple of weeks unless there’s an inside deal, for Silva to go, else as could happen starting Sunday we taken to the cleaners.

But perhaps on Sunday as being deemed to be slaughtered, the Everton team could turn up and play for their futures, as now that’s what they are doing and for their manager, and beat Leicester.

Ifs and ifs, and ifs. The club it seems in terms of football has no plan. At this rate we are becoming QPR mk2.

But we live in hope and it’s becoming a life time of for lorn hope. The city centres changing rapids, Old Nick is spawning and Everton, sadly in chronic decline, in that we have become barren, and perplexed at board level, at what to do.

I’d love to attend a board meeting and pre match team talk. What we see and the results to date, belies the fantastic Everton supporters.

This season has been the pits and we will need a miracle to avoid being the bottom three by NYD 2020.

Tony Abrahams
123 Posted 28/11/2019 at 21:56:15
Your last paragraph explains everything Andrew, and it's got that bad, some of us are even questioning if Silva is even interested in saving his job.
Andrew James
124 Posted 28/11/2019 at 21:57:21
Jay Wood

Thanks for that diligent explanation. Good point well made about Brazilian coaches.

The country that always astounds me is Uruguay. Such a talented pool of players from such a small population.

It's definitely on my bucket list to travel around South America and also see Everton de Vina Del Mar in Chile!

Mike Doyle
125 Posted 28/11/2019 at 22:55:33
As other posters have said, if this is the last throw of the dice for Silva you’d think he’d select those who will at least give it a go.
Assuming Vardy will play for Leicester then SIlva cannot afford to play Keane at the back.
I’d suggest Sidibe is a risk too as he strays too far forward and drifts out of position. Norwich recognised this so Leicester will know it.
Back 4 needs to be:
Seamus, Holgate, Mina, Digne
Like some other posters - if Beni isn’t fit I’d prefer Baines in midfield rather than Schniederlin beside Tom.
Tosun can’t function as a sole striker so DCL needs to come in.
Mark Guglielmo
126 Posted 28/11/2019 at 00:01:52
Ray @92 "Just as I'm only interested in banging Katy Perry senseless and I imagine I'll have as much success as that dinosaur does in blagging a contract far beyond his capabilities."

By far the best comment in the thread. I laughed my arse off, so thanks.

Since we're now down to debating how awful Kean is for liking a post on Instagram that was probably not even Kean himself doing it, the end times are nigh. And who said they'd rather play with 10 men than see Schneiderlin start? I want to subscribe to your newsletter.

Neil Wood
127 Posted 29/11/2019 at 00:35:30
Long shot maybe but has anyone got a spare for the Derby ? 07879551102

Thanks in hope!

Wayne Dinkelman
128 Posted 29/11/2019 at 01:41:25
As much as I think Silva needs to go, unfortunately I don't think it will solve the problems we face. In a day where players are on so much money that actually having that drive, that passion to put your body on the line to win that ball that starts the break away, that scores the goal or stops it is sadly missing. They know that all I have to do is turn up complete my stats allocation for the game so I've technically completed my job. If the manager isn't my cup of tea all I have to do is continue to play mute and eventually no matter how good the manager is he will eventually move on.

What needs to happen is Moshiri needs to walk into Finch Farm, tell every person there that this is Everton Football Club and if you aren't prepared to bleed for this badge then raise your hand now and we will move you on because this club needs to be more than completing your stats and turning up for your pay cheque. This club needs your fight, your determination, your heart and all the things that made you want to be a footballer when you were growing up. It should never just be your job, it should be your passion. NSNO
Christopher Timmins
129 Posted 29/11/2019 at 08:14:43
Steve Ferns has identified the most suitable and available candidate to take over after Silva in an article he wrote this week. Silva's treatment at this stage is disgusting, allowed to limp on with his departure a game or two away. Our new owner has a lot of money but little class judged by the manner in which he is handling this issue, a lack of class can also be applied to the rest of the board. If Silva's days are numbered then an in house candidate should have been found to take the team into the next three games while Brands finds a new manager.

I hope Brands is in Spain as I write taking care of business. I also hope we provide a shock result on Sunday and another one on Tuesday and that Silva leaves with a little dignity.

Given the choice between a loss on Tuesday and an immediate sacking over a victory on Tuesday and Silva's survival I want a win.

Brian Williams
130 Posted 29/11/2019 at 08:33:32
In all fairness Christopher the club hasn't said anything, to my knowledge, and the "treatment" of Silva is all down to the media, as it appera to be for the other contenders in "the sack race."
Again people appear to be taking what the media print as gospel and the club get the backlash.
Derek Taylor
131 Posted 29/11/2019 at 09:50:27
I have a sneaky feeling Silva is about to cloud the issue by winning three or four of the pre Xmas games. Of course he must win at Leicester to be here to do so but they are getting rather cocky and may just be caught on the hop.

I have to say that my enthusiasm to see Silva fired is somewhat reduced by my contempt for the judgement of those who will choose his replacement. I wouldn't trust them to deal with the appointment of a paper boy/girl. Would you ?

Pete Hughes
132 Posted 29/11/2019 at 10:15:21
Emery beats Silva to the job centre!
Ken Kneale
133 Posted 29/11/2019 at 10:16:00
Derek - I can visualise it now - having forgotten to deliver you paper all week but you finally get one through the letterbox, Kenwright does a media interview with the opening line, "What a papergirl"
Liam Reilly
134 Posted 29/11/2019 at 10:30:49
Don't know or understand why anybody would be enthused or want to see Silva sacked; surely it's better for everyone concerned that he gets a positive string of results against the so called best sides in the country over the next few weeks.

I for one - hope he does. He was let down in the summer by the selling of Gueye (remember that that guy that couldn't kick the ball forwards) lack of incoming central defender and a proven striker.

Stats show that we are creating a shit load of chances but no one is putting them away. We're facing fewer shots than most teams in the league but the ones we are facing seem to end up in the net.

The side clearly shows a serious lack of leadership on the field and that could well be Silva's undoing. We need a gritty annoying bastard' in the backs or middle of the park to keep the heads up and shout and moan as the lazy mother's in the team that won't pull their weight.

Stephen Brown
135 Posted 29/11/2019 at 10:32:34
I bet Arsenal appoint Arteta and he’s a rip roaring success!
Neil Wood
136 Posted 29/11/2019 at 10:33:04
Could we gamble on Emery?!?!?
Daniel A Johnson
137 Posted 29/11/2019 at 10:37:32
Getting to the stage where I'm sick of typing the same thing over and over.

Emery has gone, he was a bad fit at Arsenal just like SIlva is a bad fit with us.

They act we don't. Says it all really.

Out of Pochettino and Emery Silva is by far the worst of the 3 this year. Lets see who Arsenal go for.

David Pearl
138 Posted 29/11/2019 at 10:39:22
Neil, arsenal fans said he had no clue on formation & tactics... sounds familiar doesn’t it. No doubt for me that long term Arteta is the one. Arsenal could go for him and we will be left in limbo. It’s not doing my back any good.
Jer Kiernan
139 Posted 29/11/2019 at 10:42:30
As I said previous expect WHU to fire Pelligrini next week, We will be the "ugly sister" of that threesome, in the eyes of any prospective manager looking for a job

Shocking but not surprising, I also feel they (Arsenal) are going to punt on Eddie Howe which again will be an opportunity missed by an incompetant club management

Sam Hoare
140 Posted 29/11/2019 at 10:48:10
Man City sound pretty confident that Arteta will be staying with them for rest of the season. It could be that llunjberg gets a long stint at Arsenal with them getting a permanent manager next summer. Depends on who is available. I'd be surprised if they go for Howe. Espirito Santo looks a better bet.

Incidentally the architect of Emery's utlimate demise was Adi Hutter, the Eintracht manager who made some good subs and tactical shift to win the game after going behind last night. Sounds unfamiliar to an Everton fan! He's a manager i'd like for us, though may not be available till the summer.

Tony Everan
141 Posted 29/11/2019 at 10:53:20
Arteta and Cahill are very talented and interesting propositions, but getting someone in mid season with no managerial experience is just too risky. They would need a full pre-season to have a chance.

We need someone with calm, confident authority to sort it out. Someone with experience. nb [Not Moyes ]

Arsenal and West Ham managerless next week will now make our task harder.

The best option would be for Marco to win the next three on the bounce , then we can forget all about it , like it was a bad dream . Unfortunately this is the the land of the La's not La La land .

David Pearl
142 Posted 29/11/2019 at 10:54:48

Are you actually serious? Steve Ferns has identified what... who.... ??... has he told Moshiri?


We are no closer to progressing. That’s the point, to get better. We are not far away but we need a change to take us there. How can we continue to employ a manager that doesn’t have the ability to manage a game. He was never ever qualified. Don’t you think a man making millions a year should know wtf he’s doing?

As others have said we are going to be left behind again. Even if we beat Leicester and the rs l still want him gone. He isn’t good enough. The players don’t look as if they are being coached.

Jer Kiernan
143 Posted 29/11/2019 at 10:57:38
It is possible to win a game of football after conceeding the first goal ? are you sure ?

The question for me is WTF do the board think is going to happen with Silva he proved beyond doubt for me his out of his depth, if he gets a performance out of this lot in next few weeks will be from a place of pity , he has already lost their respect

I doubt very much the Aresnal /Spurs forums were full of fans concerning themselves with the possible "pay offs" for the respective managers, ,They failed get them out, its just about having the right attitude/standards set at the top of the club

Ajay Gopal
144 Posted 29/11/2019 at 11:06:03
It appears that Unai Emery at Arsenal and Pellegrini at West Ham will get the sack before Silva.

Somebody above has mentioned it, but I would play Holgate in Schneiderlin's role to provide more mobility, aggression and defensive solidity.
If Delph is still not fully fit, I wouldn't play him in the mid-field. Ditto Bernard.
I would go 4-3-3 and go with:

Coleman Keane Mina Digne
Davies Holgate Iwobi
Kean Richarlison DCL

If Delph is fit, go 4-4-2:

Coleman Keane Mina Digne
Davies Holgate Iwobi Delph
Richarlison DCL

With Coleman and Digne being told to primarily defend and cut out the crosses. Iwobi playing as an attacking mid-fielder, and Davies and Delph doing the running. Easy!

Daniel A Johnson
145 Posted 29/11/2019 at 11:13:45
If Delph is fit "IF".

He annoyed me with his I'm a winner bravado when he signed having played in less than 30% of Citys matches and being injured a lot.

He's a winner though that fella.

Andrew Dempsey
146 Posted 29/11/2019 at 11:25:21
I accept, you can’t be sure of a managers competence before you appoint them.
But now, we are approaching new levels of incompetence at our own board level.

The inability to sack someone who, everyone can see, needs sacking.
What does it matter what our run of games are? They are all just fixtures in the Premier League, tough matches all.
Fresh impetus and ideas are needed for these run of games, not more of the same 4231 with the same personnel.
It’s more than insulting, it’s a total lack of caring about the supporters who are going to Leicester and Anfield.
These games have been thrown away by the board (Brands is included in this) when they could have been used to generate some kind of change and excitement.
They’ll be forced to sack him on Thursday morning anyway, and if they don’t, we have to not show up on-masse to the Chelsea game, it’s the only language these people understand.
Hardly anyone showing up to Arsenal v Frankfurt is why their board pulled the trigger on Emery.

Liam Reilly
147 Posted 29/11/2019 at 11:25:43
Daniel... "He isn’t good enough. The players don’t look as if they are being coached."

How do we know that? From what I hear and read, they players all like and rate him as a coach.

To me, its the players who are a disgrace. Many of them on close to 100K a week and they're the ones who cross the white line.

Quotes from SAF:

“Every training session was about quality. We didn’t allow a lack of focus. It was about intensity, concentration, speed a high level of performance. That, we hoped, made our players improve with each session.

Fear has to come into it, but you can be too hard. If players are fearful all the time, they won’t perform well either. But I had to lift players’ expectations. They should never give in. I said that to them all the time: ‘If you give in once, you’ll give in twice.’ And the work ethic and energy I had seemed to spread throughout the club.”

“The goal was to evolve gradually, moving older players out and younger players in. It was mainly about two things: First, who did we have coming through and where did we see them in three years’ time, and second, were there signs that existing players were getting older?

I don't think the above is possible with the players Silva has at his disposal and he needs to move many of the senior players out and replace them/ He's currently missing come key components through lack of board action and injuries.

It took Ferguson 4 Seasons to win his first trophy. He was given time and patience. 2 of our former managers are now performing well for National Sides; Koeman has rejuvenated Holland.

I stand in the minority but I hope Silva is given the same.

Sam Hoare
148 Posted 29/11/2019 at 11:27:25
Jer, difficult to know what the board is thinking but I suspect Steve Fern's article is probably not far from the truth. I'd wager that they've not yet identified a replacement that they can agree on as a clear improvement on Silva; or if they have they may decide they don't want the new man in to have to kick off with 2 very tough matches and almost zero time for training.

Who knows? I'll be pretty surprised if Silva is still in the job come January. But then if he somehow manages to get 4 points in the next two games and follows that up with a few more wins he'll buy himself more time. Doesn't seem likely.

Brian Harrison
149 Posted 29/11/2019 at 11:28:04
Seems the silly season has come early this year, with the sackings of Pochettino and Emery, with the likelyhood of both Pellegrini and Silva also being sacked before the end of December. I can remember a lot of posters wanting us to appoint Emery before we appointed Silva, and I daresay most Evertonians would jump at the chance of us getting Pochettino.

I just wonder if we have now reached the stage of if you are not in the top 6 then your jobs on the line, and in Pochettions case getting a club into a Champions league spot 4 years running and even getting them to a final last year still didnt save him. I have to say I cant say who should be the next manager, now many can put forward suggestions but without any certainty of it being a success. I am sure non of the managers sacked so far will be out of work for long, if they choose to go back into management right away.
They may take 12 months out of the job, as just like unpicked players your stock as a player or as a manager seems to go up if you are not selected.

Sam Hoare
150 Posted 29/11/2019 at 11:35:06
Despite his failure at Arsenal Emery still has some pretty great spells on his CV, especially at Sevilla and Valencia.

He'd still be above the likes of Moyes and Hughes for me. And possibly above Howe (sorry Jer!). He left Arsenal with a win % of 55 which is not too horrendous.

Perhaps taking someone who has failed with one of our rivals does not feel that palatable but he could be one the better options available if you looks at the context of his whole managerial career. He's done better with good midtable teams to overperform (Almeria, Valencia, Sevilla) than at those expecting to challenge at the very top (Arsenal, PSG). Could be a good fit?

Christopher Timmins
151 Posted 29/11/2019 at 11:45:57
Unless I misread Steve's article he identified Marcelino Garcia as someone who is available and who a club of our size might be able to attract. He did a fantastic job at Valencia. It might be argued that he is too big a name for a club who have won nothing since 1994 and who may well spend the rest of the season in a battle for survival but I think we might be able to attract him.

Iain Latchford
152 Posted 29/11/2019 at 11:54:25
Arsenal will not appoint Eddie Howe as manager.
Mike Doyle
153 Posted 29/11/2019 at 12:03:30
Iain #152]. is that because they are looking at Mark Hughes instead?
Andrew Dempsey
154 Posted 29/11/2019 at 12:06:03
He’s a terrible communicator!
He can’t string a bloody sentence together! Emery that is. Silva isn’t far behind him.
This isn’t xenophobia, this is an essential part of a football managers job.
Maybe he could do this at Seville, in fact, he must have done. But, you can’t understand anything he’s saying over here.
This is also the problem, to a lesser extent, with Silva. It matters not what is on your CV. Can you manage Everton? That’s the question. And it’s one, at board level, we keep getting the answer wrong to over and over again.
Ray Smith
155 Posted 29/11/2019 at 12:08:26
I sincerely hope that the next Arsenal manager is not one of our targets to replace Silva!

Slow off the mark again!

Kevin Naylor
156 Posted 29/11/2019 at 12:11:41
Ray you just know he will be.
Len Hawkins
157 Posted 29/11/2019 at 12:16:00
I am sorry but perhaps I don't see what some people see in Howe he failed at Burnley went back to his comfort zone at Bournemouth who aren't ripping up trees as they shoot up the table and I think that mid table keeps him in work without breaking sweat. Don't forget only the best is good enough for Everton.

If a Prem manager is required really there is only one that realistically may be tempted to come (but I doubt he'd want to lower himself) is the Sheff Utd boss.

I think the club is on the brink and if it was put on the operating table and opened up there would be a great shaking of the surgeons head before sewing back up and saying there's F' ALL I can do.

I think Mosh should be looking at Levy and thinking Christ they really are a decisive ruthless club WHICH EVERTON SHOULD BE, no weeping everyone's friend cuddly fantasy chairman.
( in no way do I wish to cuddle him except in a strangle hold by the way)

Joe McMahon
158 Posted 29/11/2019 at 12:27:12
I wonder if Arsenal will now be linked to Moyes, Unsworth or Hughes? Nope so why should we!
Sam Hoare
159 Posted 29/11/2019 at 12:33:25
Andrew@154 how else are you meant work out who can manage Everton without looking at C.V.s? Of course it matters!

The communication thing may be a fair point but Emery speaks decent English doesn’t he? Not significantly worse than the likes of Pochettino or Guardiola. I guess you’d have to ask around at Arsenal to see if players had serious difficulty understanding him or his translators. If so then it’s a valid concern but to rule out anyone lacking perfect English would be to lose a lot of options!

Phil Martin
160 Posted 29/11/2019 at 12:34:02
All I know is is that I'm glad some of you guys are not running the club 🙂
Iain Johnston
161 Posted 29/11/2019 at 12:37:23
Andrew#154 Pochettino couldn't speak a word of English when he arrived in the U.K and the last few Chelsea managers with limited language skills haven't done too badly.

Maybe that's a good thing as judging by our most recent history, the fact that Martinez, Koeman & Silva can speak English didn't make a blind bit of difference.

What's the point of being able to speak the lingo when one of our most prize assets can't?

Arsenal's issues are in the boardroom, Kroenke's priority isn't on the pitch.

He's done no worse than Wenger in his last couple of seasons. I'd have Emery up here on the first Pendolino out of Euston.

Paul Tran
162 Posted 29/11/2019 at 12:41:24
Interesting thing regarding all of this is that when we got Silva, lots of people come on here upset that we didn't get Emery & Pellegrini. One sacked, one on the brink.

I'm a big critic of our regime, but London clubs in Europe with new stadia may find it easier to move quickly and attract better managers, while still getting it wrong.

Easy this football malarkey, isn't it?

Joe McMahon
163 Posted 29/11/2019 at 12:48:47
Paul @162, I agree, but I think Europe and stadium anywhere helps. Anfield is certainly not new but much better and modern facilities to attract managers, fans and media. Kings Dock would have changed us.
Paul Tran
164 Posted 29/11/2019 at 13:01:20
Problem is, Joe, we are perceived a small-time, small-minded club by the media and beyond. That's why we're lazily linked with the likes of Moyes & Hughes. That's partly why it takes longer & sometimes costs us more to get deals sorted. We have money, but very little reputation & clout.

So while I'm a critic of the board, I'm willing to be a bit more patient regarding finalising a new manager. I don't mind it taking longer, providing we get it right.

That's a huge if, mind!

Michael Lynch
165 Posted 29/11/2019 at 13:02:22
Surprised Emery has been binned before Silva. Pellegrini could be gone on Saturday night too if they get a hammering at Chelsea. I reckon that will pile pressure on the board to do something if we lose at Leicester on Sunday, but what it also tells you is how unpredicatable this management lark is. Who would have thought Spurs and Arsenal would both have sacked their supposedly world-class managers before Christmas?

Raymond Fox
166 Posted 29/11/2019 at 13:10:04
Liam # 147, we are both thinking along the same lines.

I've pounded on about it being more to do with the players than the managers for years since and including Martinez. Of course there are good and bad managers but usually it's the manager that carries the can when the team is performing badly, whatever is the root cause.

The problem is where do you proportion blame? Is it all his fault or is it every other facet of the club that's operating badly?

Its extremely difficult to determine, we have changed managers repeatedly but we have gone backwards or at best marked time.

What we don't need is Silva replaced by another average manager.

Gerry Ring
167 Posted 29/11/2019 at 13:29:13
Liam #147. Nowhere in Silva's background or career to date is there any evidence to suggest he can succeed. The opposite is the case.

We are now in the same predicament as the other clubs he has mismanaged, ie, staring regulation in the face!! Get rid ASAP!!!

Stephen Morgan
168 Posted 29/11/2019 at 13:35:39
What about considering a female manager? It would boost our profile and would be forward thinking. Shelly Kerr has done a fantastic job as Scotland manager, we could do worse.
Jer Kiernan
169 Posted 29/11/2019 at 13:35:58
Interesting to see if Arsenals board had a candidate lined up ? how long before they announce ?

I have to say I would have had Emery over Silva anyday last year and I am finding it hard to put my finger on what has gone wrong at Arsenal he has had decent backing

Funny though for Aresene just getting in Top 4 kept him in the job for the last 7 seasons he was there

If people thought before that Eddie Howe was not a high enough "profile" name (whatever the fck that means) we are now competing with Arse and WHU for a manager, As mentioned above here are 2 high "profile" names (ie Pellegrini and Emery) who are both for the chop in jobs in which they barely had time to take their jackets off

Maybe we need to appoint that great foreign master Eduardo Howeio, who won Copa del Libertitotos with Fannyboysrus fc (their first Copa in 50years) in Equador can barely utter a word of English but we can see how many times he scratches his eyebrows in post match interviews to know exactly what he is thinking !!!

Commnication is everything for me, both Klopp and Guardiola not only can speak the language but have an immense grasp of it, Often Klopp will indulge in plays on words etc etc, if you listen to any of Guardiolas famous speeches to Man City players you will hear somebody getting a message across on many different levels well beyond "you stand here" etc etc

Eddie has served his apprentiship, he deserves this chance, I am a firm believer if you do the right think, good things will happen . I have yet to be convinced that any other viable candidate is better suited to the role

Eduardo es el hombre ;)

Jim Bennings
170 Posted 29/11/2019 at 13:43:51
Arsenal though are very much like us in a way where they always seem to harbour quite a weak willed group of players.

You look at the Arsenal sides that were successful, they all had leaders of men on the pitch during those glory years.

Last time we won a trophy the squad was packed with hard characters that might sometimes have lacked top class talent but made up for it in abundance with strong minds.

Jay Wood

171 Posted 29/11/2019 at 13:52:18
The record's stu...stu...stuck!

In the four PL seasons under Eddie Howe, Bournemouth's record reads:

2015-16 - 16th, 42 pts, goals against 67 (2nd worst in the PL), -22 goals difference (3rd worst)

2016-17 - 9th, 46 points, goals against 67 (4th worst), -12 goals difference.

2017-18 - 12th, 44 points, goals against 61 (3rd worst), -16 goals difference.

2018-19 - 14th, 45 points, goals against 70 (3rd worst), -14 goals difference.

In the calendar year of 2019 Bournemouth has won just 3 home games in 16 attempts and in 31 PL games their goal difference reads F 44 A 50 - the fourth worst defensive record in 2019, only behind S'ton with 58 conceded (9 in a single game), Watford 57 (themselves the recipients of many a thumping this season), and Brighton 52.

As bad as we have been this season, Silva's Everton has the 4th meanest defence in the calendar year with 36, only bettered by City with 21 conceded, Liverpool 25 and Leicester 33.

But in his favour, Eddie's got lovely diction.

Daniel A Johnson
172 Posted 29/11/2019 at 13:55:46
Liam Reilly [147] I think you mean to refer to David Pearl [142]
Daniel A Johnson
173 Posted 29/11/2019 at 13:58:36
Not being Xenophobic but at interview it should have been clear that Emery struggled with English. But then again Pochettino needed a translator at Southampton. But after 18months Emery's basic English should have been better than it was. It just seemed he struggled to grasp English his interviews were pretty bad with circular answers that got nowhere.

Judging by stories of bad behaviour and players mocking Emery it sounds like they have a few bad eggs in situ there.

Daniel A Johnson
174 Posted 29/11/2019 at 14:01:50
I'm with Jay 100%, with Eddie Howe its a big no from me.

He is incapable of organising a defence in any shape or form. As Van Dyke has shown at Liverpool a good defence is the platform that you build on.

Steve Ferns
175 Posted 29/11/2019 at 14:06:07
Stephen, if you want to hire someone from the women's game, then why overlook our own Willie Kirk. He has flipped the table on it's head and taken Everton from relegation fodder to chasing the leaders at the top. Now, i'm not actually advocating for him, but if you want to suggest people from the women's game, then he should be ahead of anyone else.
Steve Ferns
176 Posted 29/11/2019 at 14:16:02
Gerry Ring: "Liam #147. No where in Silvas background or career to date is there any evidence to suggest he can succeed"

1. Estoril took them from relegation places after they sacked the manager to Champions in the same season.
2. Took them to a record 5th position in the top flight and European Football.
3. Improved on 5th to a record 4th position and ended Porto's 5 year unbeaten domestic home record as well as managing in the EL.
4. Won the Portuguese Cup with Sporting, their first trophy for 7 years.
5. Won the Greek league, breaking European wide records en route, and note they have not won the league for the last two seasons so they do not win it every season, and he also won at Arsenal with the current dodgy West Ham keeper in goal.
6. Took over Hull when they were bottom of the league with a 0.65 points per game average (24.7 points over 38 games) and improved it to 1.17 points per game average which would have been 44.5 points over 38 games.

There's your evidence Gerry.

Jer Kiernan
177 Posted 29/11/2019 at 14:32:39
@Jay 171
All of those stats can be turned anyway you wish they don't take into account the challenges involved in managing poxy B/mouth,but all of them stats are in the PL btw which is where we compete (unlike the clown act you recommended ) There are stats floating around that prove Silva is doing a great job I have seen them (love the way you quote "in the calendar year" for one stat,... ) !!!

I also find it amusing how you spent the whole of last week shooting down everybody elses suggestions and when pushed for your own were not forthcoming, actually stating is not your job to suggest anybody yourself "wont indulge in fantasy games " I think was the quote when pressed

You then "indulge" in writing an full page article promoting some buffoon who has won in Portugal (see Marco Silva) and some South American joke of a league, citing the fact that he dances about in the dugout as an attribute

To say you love the sound of your own voice would be an understatement. judging by the space you take up on this website , He is the only viable option for Everton and is the right fit and has pedigree in OUR league. And he is a true blue understands our club and fans and has perfect English

Give Klopp or Rogers bournemouth and see how they would fair

Eddies the man ;)

David Hayes
178 Posted 29/11/2019 at 14:36:36
So sad that it's come to this, the optimism of pre- season when the majority on here where proclaiming Brands as a genius and the board as saviours of our club. Short memories and armchair mangers we all become when things go wrong. One undeniable fact thats been a constant fact in Silva s. tenure is the ability to adapt a game plan or change tactics mid game, playing to the strengths we have to hurt the opposition he does not have or will ever learn. This is obvious from every game we have played. Let's pray we get out this appalling mess before it's too late.
Steve Ferns
179 Posted 29/11/2019 at 14:44:42
Jer, you're being a little harsh there. Jay didn't write an article and he was not promoting Jorge Jesus. Jesus is flavour of the month in Brazil winning the big one with Brazil's glamour club who have choked and not won this trophy for 30 years or so. And as result they're all trumpeting Jorge Jesus as a result. Jay merely reported on that and told the story of the man. He never said he was a great manager or that he was the right man for the job.

I'll tell you he's not. I think he has a lot of flaws. He is a very combustible character whose antics are great when you are winning, but if he came here and he was losing then he'd come across very badly.

He's a wild card though, and maybe that's exactly what Everton need, and Jorge Jesus at his best could defy the odds.

As for Eddie Howe, personally I'm undecided. I would probably lean to not hiring him. But my father wanted him instead of Silva, despite being a self-adopted son of Portugal. And he knew his football, and I have no doubt he would be championing Eddie if he was still around. My dad argued that Eddie's football suited better players and that his ideas would come across better at Everton.

Brian Mahoney
180 Posted 29/11/2019 at 14:47:37
I have just seen Arsenal's reason for sacking Emery."Results and performances have not been at the level required."
The same can be true of ourselves yet our bumbling board are willing to accept mediocrity.
Jer Kiernan
181 Posted 29/11/2019 at 14:55:07
@ Steve 179
The article didnt write itself, somebody sat down researched and typed it out, and is all positive c'mon there was a caveat at the top stating it was not an endorsement but it reads very much like an endorsement !!

I have yet to see any name mentioned who is a "viable" candidate that is better suited than "our" Eddie, I just feel because he is homegrown he gets fckal credit and is seen as not fashionable enough

He has earned it the hard way, has served his apprentiship and all I can see is "hasbeen" and "never beens" being mentioned

As discussed he is exactly what our club needs righ now, if he even got 25% more effective with Everton we would be knocking on the door of Top 4-6

It amazes me how easily some dismiss the work he has done with B/mouth over a SUSTAINED period, PLs longest serving manager counts for nothing it seems

It is the "right" thing to do, Stats are great but gut instinct is also a factor (probably what your old man was taping into) there are some things you cant factor with stats as proved above by Jay , That record is with B/mouth ffs not Spurs/ Aresenal is a great acheivement over sustained period but throws it out like is nothing ????

He is knocking on the door for years now , is time we gave him the chance to prove himself with better players

Steve Ferns
182 Posted 29/11/2019 at 15:04:55
Jer, it was a post in a thread, that was very well received and Lyndon or Michael gave it a thread of it's own as an article and at no stage does Jay say he wants him in charge. Jay's never been one to engage in speculation over the years, be it players or managers. Although, he's almost there in his wish for Everton to sign Gabriel Barbosa.
Jay Wood

183 Posted 29/11/2019 at 15:13:04
Oh, Jer. Bless!

You evidently struggle with counter opinions to your own and simple semantics. The devil is in the detail.

As CLEARLY stated in my original post in the Rumour Mill story about Jorge Jesus, and as CLEARLY stated in the introduction to the standalone thread that the EDITORS created (not me) from that self-same post, I haven't recommended or advocated for Jorge Jesus (or anyone else for that matter) to be our next manager, AT ALL!

All I did was offer a very detailed biog on the man as I know him well having lived in both Portugal and Brazil. In my posts I clearly stated that:

* it 'really wasn't a goer'
* probably, Portuguese media, like all football rumour mongerers, had just looked at the Silva-Everton-Jesus situation, joined the dots and fabricated the whole thing
* IF - a very big IF - there is anything in this and it comes to pass, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Jorge Jesus as some are (I'm guessing I can add you to that list of naysayers)
* it could prove to be a very interesting development indeed. Or...not!

I offered validated data showing Jorge Jesus as a serial winner, as someone who has got his clubs in 'lesser leagues' to continental finals and left it to others to formulate their opinions on what I presented of his record and his personality.

YOU, by contrast, have offered no such insight into Eddie Howe beyond repeating ad nauseum 'Yo da man, Eddie!'

If all the stats I've put up about Eddie Howe can be 'turned any way you wish', then do so. Glibly saying that the consistently poor defensive record of Bournemouth team is "yeah, well, it's 'cos his team plays open attacking football and they get thumped by better teams now and again, innit?" as you did on another thread, isn't a credible counter argument.

Eddie Howe is NOT as you claim "the only viable option for Everton", nor "the right fit", and he most certainly does NOT "have pedigree in [the Premier] league.

As for your concluding face-pulling ad hominem comment about how you perceive me, phtt! Grow up, and then some.

Jer Kiernan
184 Posted 29/11/2019 at 15:14:02
@Steve 183
Jay wrote it yes or no ??

And I quote from same article
"And you know what? The players LOVE him. What player doesn't like a manager who transforms them into Champions? "

"He is an exceedingly fit 65-year-old, younger than both Pellegrini and Hodgson who manage in the Premier League. "

"Every game, they sing for minutes on end “Ole, ole, ole, ole - Mister! Mister!” in homage to him."

"As a measure of his bottle, in the first league meeting between the two clubs at Benfica's stadium after the switch, watch the following video. He DELIBERATELY prowled his technical area for the full game, not once sitting down to shelter from all the debris and abuse the Benfica fans hurled at him.
His "don't take a backward step" message translated to his team on the field:"

Need I go on ??? this is glowing endoresement by Jay there is NOTHING negative in it, , Even the fact that he has pidgeon English at best is laughed off as being "beach "English

So sorry I think Jay is very much engaging in speculation but maybe not very quick to admit it, ,but like lightning when it comes to shooting down others suggestions


If Jorge Jesus is "not a goer" why bother write the article ? Is a glowing endorsement nothing negative and any possible negative is turned into a positive ,You are being disingenuous at best

In the same way I make it a thing that Eddie is handicapped in what he does at Bmouth you dismiss the same ,Give me a viable option as stated before "somebody" has to do the job at Everton ??

If Jorge is your vote that fine but please spare us all the cloak and dagger stuff, at least I am prepared to put my opinion out there in the open

btw its "Eddies the man" please pay attention :)

Stephen Meighan
185 Posted 29/11/2019 at 15:26:00
It's embarrassing being an Evertonian. Kenwright and his cronies have made us a laughing stock in this city.
Jer Kiernan
186 Posted 29/11/2019 at 15:26:38
@Jay 184,

Read the quotes from your OWN article that I list above, they have nothing to do with validated data, they are an impassioned plea on behalf of the guy. All emotion and no data, I am sorry.

If you want to push the guy, fair enough, but just state that is what you are going to do – otherwise, it is embarrassing for yourself and insulting to your fellow TWebbers.

Jay Wood

187 Posted 29/11/2019 at 15:44:46
Jer, why did I 'bother to write' about Jorge Jesus?' [with the unspoken implication that I am lobbying for him].

Ehrm...because there was a thread about him. Because I wanted to. And because I can (unless the TW posting guidelines have radically changed).

And NOTHING I wrote about him is fabricated. If YOU yourself are acknowledging the positives about Jorge Jesus, what's that telling you?

As for me engaging in some Machiavellian 'cloak and dagger stuff' and clandestinely promoting Jorge Jesus for our next manager.

Phttt! Again! If you are so familiar with my posting style as you wish to claim, then you know I'll give it to you or anyone straight. I don't resort to supposition, implication or deception to state what I think or feel.

If I genuinely believe, as you evidently do about Howe, that 'JJ yo da man!' I would be saying it loud, clear and unambiguously. I haven't and I won't.

My stated position from last week on who our next manager should be remains. I listed a template, a check list, by which we should be selecting our next manager by. The more boxes a candidate checks, the stronger his candidacy.

I know just one thing with 100% certainty. Whilst not fully convinced by any of the last four Everton managers at the time of their appointment - Martinez, Koeman, Allardyce and Silva - once in situ, they got my full support initially because that's who and what I am as an Everton supporter. Because if the manager does well, then Everton does well. And that's what I primarily want.

And that's EXACTLY the attitude I will apply to the next incumbent at EFC, be that Eddie Howe, Jorge Jesus or even the tactically astute ball boy Mourinho praised in mid-week.

Jer Kiernan
188 Posted 29/11/2019 at 15:58:11
Jay @188,

I know I saw your "checklist" and mentioned at the time it looked like a bit of a kop out to me, and I don't know how to hold up the candidates to it, to be honest.

The article you wrote about Jesus was very much favourable in every aspect, if it was dispassionate then he obviously has no bad points at all but you are not recommending him so no point persisting with this

As regards supporting the manager, every Everton manager will start with a clean slate from me, whether I supported their appointment or not, up until they are hurting the club that I love. In Silva's case, this point was passed weeks ago.

At least that is something we can both agree on.

Brian Porter
189 Posted 29/11/2019 at 16:04:08
Arsenal have sacked Emery. How come the 'big' teams take decisive action when results are not what they expected while 'plucky little Everton' limp along with a lame duck manager sliding ever closer to the relegation zone?
I despair of our club, I really do.
Steve Ferns
190 Posted 29/11/2019 at 16:10:39
Jer, if you want to criticise Jorge Jesus why not do your homework instead of criticising Jay? for example you could look at his European Record. I'll summarise it for you and you can draw your own conclusions:


2009-10 – won Europa League group including Everton, losing to AEK. Beat Hertha in knockouts, squeezed past Marseilles, then smashed by Liverpool in the Quarters.

2010-11 – finished 3rd in Champions League group including Lyon, Schalke and Hopel Tel Aviv and even lost 3-0 to Tel Aviv. They then did well beating Stuttgart, PSG and PSV before being knocked out by Braga in the Semis which is not good for the Benfica manager.

2011-12 – 2nd in an easy Champions League group with Man Utd, Basel, and Romanians Otelul Galati. Then squeezed past Zenit (4-3 on aggregate), before losing home and away to Chelsea in the Quarters.

2012-13 – 3rd in a Champions League group with Barca, Celtic and Spartak. Before losing to Rafa's Chelsea in the Europa League final, beating Bayer Leverkusen, Bordeaux, Pardew's Newcastle, and Fenerbache.

2013-14 – 3rd in a Champions League group including PSG, Olympiacos, and Anderlecht. Then again making the Europa League final but losing to Emery's Seville. Beating Greeks PAOK, Tim Sherwood's Spurs, AZ Alkmaar and Juventus.

2014-15 – bottom of Champions League group including Monaco, Bayer, and Zent. So no Europa League either.

Sporting – directly succeeding Marco Silva:

2015-16 – 2nd in Europa League group with Lokomotiv, Bestikas, and Skenderbeu. Before Elimination in the next round with Bayern.

2016-17 – bottom of Champions League group with Dortmund, Real, and Legia Warsaw. So no Europa League.

2017-18 – 3rd in Champions League group with Barca, Juve, and Olympiacos (Silva just left for Hull). Into the Europa League where he beats Astana, Plzen, and loses to Atletico Madrid in the Quarters.

Andrew Dempsey
191 Posted 29/11/2019 at 16:23:38
My point wasn’t about language proficiency, it was about communication. Two different things.
Someone can use an interpreter and their own body language to communicate something effectively.
Someone can have perfect English, but not be able to effectively transmit their ideas to others.
Emery is boring, dull. The players are sick of him. He had no charisma, they’re not interested in anything he’s got to say. This is a big part of communication.
Pochettino is charismatic, so is Bielsa.
The way Emery speaks, you can’t really follow what he’s saying, it’s not really about language. He just seems like a nervous, uptight guy. I don’t like him.
They didn’t like him at PSG either.
He just seems utterly pathetic.
Michael Kenrick
192 Posted 29/11/2019 at 17:03:59
Jer (#187), what is the matter with you?

If you want to push the guy, fair enough, but just state that is what you are going to do – otherwise, it is embarrassing for yourself and insulting to your fellow TWebbers.

I think most people who read the Jorge Jesus article saw it primarily as informative, rather than a booster piece, but I guess you are free t place that spin on it from your perspective if you must.

It's the second bit that bugs me: why does Jay have to signal what he's doing? So you are somehow pre-warned to the intent of what you are reading?

And then, how on earth is this (a) embarrassing or (b) insulting?? What an earth is your problem???

This is a football discussion forum for Evertonians. We encourage discussion on topics of interest to them. We chose to 'boost' that post to article status for what we thought were pretty obvious reasons.

Martin Mason
193 Posted 29/11/2019 at 18:14:08
My bet is on Arsenal taking Pochetino. It would be a massive statement of intent if we did instead.
Jer Kiernan
194 Posted 29/11/2019 at 18:33:21
@Micheal 193

Okay, fair point: 'embarrssing' and 'insulting' are strong words to use. If I overstepped on that, I apologies and retract. (If that's all you have a problem with then ignore the rest of my post.)

However, during the week, Jay had no problem shooting down anybody else's suggestions for next manager (which is his right). But, when asked who he would have himself, he refused to partake "in a fanstasy game" as he was not on the board, so it was pointless and futile. Let's be honest – none of the discussions on here will have any relevance to the real world, which we all accept, but we partake anyways. That is fine... moving along

So I acknowledge his right not to put forward anybody, then I read that piece on Jesus and I am sorry but, if it had been written by Mammy Jesus herself, I doubt it could be any more glowing!!

So I feel Jay is being disingenuous as discussed above by putting up a strong impassioned case (see the quotes above I chose from his piece) –they are nothing to do with stats record etc, they are bigging this guy up, and absolutely doesn't look for one minute impartial as I said it appears he has no bad points. Whereas Steve has found plenty as above. If it was an informative piece, where are the negatives?

When I add a post which is nothing to do with him per se and he pipes in with his own 2 cents kicking off with "The record's stu...stu...stuck!" I will pull him up on it, And point what I see to be his hypocrisies.

The fact is, Eddie has his faults but is better than nobody.

Mike Gaynes
195 Posted 29/11/2019 at 18:40:25
Steve #191, where do you find the time for all that research?
Jay Wood

196 Posted 29/11/2019 at 19:05:50

As far as apologies and retractions go, that's a pretty poor effort Jer.

I took a scatter gun, shooting down people's manager nominees? Nope! Not so.

I categorically stated with reasons why Moyes should never again be employed in any capacity at Everton in the thread about Moyes and Hughes being considered.

In the Eddie Howe rumour thread I quoted the same stats as I did in post 171 above, ending that post with 'No ta, very much.'

Neither post was directed at any individual poster. I simply expressed my personal opinion. That's 'it'.

And don't come over all coy and innocent by stating your post @ 169 had "nothing to do with [me]" when the following (really poor) parody in that post most certainly DID have 'something to do' with me. I quote:

"Maybe we need to appoint that great foreign master Eduardo Howeio, who won Copa del Libertitotos with Fannyboysrus fc (their first Copa in 50 years) in Equador can barely utter a word of English but we can see how many times he scratches his eyebrows in post match interviews to know exactly what he is thinking !!!"

There's really not a lot going for any of your posts in recent days, is there Jer?

Mark Guglielmo
197 Posted 29/11/2019 at 19:07:16
I can only assume most of the comments in the last 2/3 of this thread were pre-presser?

Schneiderlin, Walcott, Delph all out. Coleman out until at least January.

All good news IMO. It forces some hands and puts better players in the starting XI. Though maybe Marco will still somehow get Schneiderlin in there Weekend At Bernie's-style.

Oh, and I can't find the confirmation, but word is Howe is out. He's not interested. And Moyes, lol. He wants 2 years at minimum? Awfully ballsy for a chronically unemployed & mediocre manager.

Joe Corgan
198 Posted 29/11/2019 at 19:14:47
Just thinking about it, at the moment we have Solskjaer in charge at Man Utd, Lampard at Chelsea and (temporarily at least) Ljungberg at Arsenal.

If nothing else, this might reflect that there really aren't as many top managers out there as we think. Even the biggest clubs are having to turn to old boys with little success behind them.

Is there anybody in Europe who has taken a mid-table club into the upper echelons and DOESN'T have a smear such as relegation on their CV? Is there anyone that's done it more than once?

Jer Kiernan
199 Posted 29/11/2019 at 19:28:46
@Jay 197

"As far as apologies and retractions go, that's a pretty poor effort Jer." --thats the best your going to get my friend, and probably more than you deserve

"In the Eddie Howe rumour thread I quoted the same stats as I did in post 171 above, ending that post with 'No ta, very much.'"----

Not the entire truth Jay yet again being disingenuos ( I think I really have the size of you even if Micheal doesnt !! ) what you actually said on the thread when I asked you to provide your alternative to Eddie was along these line:

"I dealt with that DUMB line of questioning on another thread"

As somebody else who was dumb, had obviously pulled you up on the blatant hypocrysy of sitting back saying no, sorry to all suggestions but providing no alternative and stating it was not your intention to put forward anybody which of course you didnt by the very "impartial" glowing diatribe on Jesus

And you werent suggesting for a minute that we hire him ( of course ) so there was no reason at all for you take umberage with my above post mocking what I percieve as a general obsession we on this side of the world have with "foreign" managers, if it resembled your post was more an inditment of how cliched said post was, Similar posts are 2 a penny when a big job in the PL becomes avaiable

See what I am gettin at Jay, I am not having it for a minute !!

This is going nowhere and putting extra work on the Mods who are busy enough for the week that is in it so I will move on from here, Let the posters read the above(if arsed) and your impatial diatribe on Jesus and make up their own mind it bothers me not

I suggest Eddie You suggest nobody is fine

Michael Kenrick
200 Posted 29/11/2019 at 19:30:19
Thanks for that, Jer (#195).

I still think you are ascribing far too much to Jay's posts (as he identifies above), but I have to accept you are not alone. Both Jay and Steve appear to be targetted more and more for their posts, which personally I find hard to understand.

Some people seem intimidated by the information and opinions they post, which I just find baffling. They are simply posters on a football forum, putting forward views which are invariably backed up by information they feel is compelling – and yet we are told they are "shouting down" other posters? If you don't agree with them, fine, but saying that is just ridiculous.

People are hammering them for what are essentially knowledgeable and informative posts which I feel duty bound as Editor to defend, because not only are they high-quality posts, that we seek to encourage, but they also do not contravene our Conditions of Use.

Note: this is not an endorsement of their content... although my footballing knowledge falls far short of what either of them can muster, which makes it hard to construct counterpoints to them. And maybe that's what frustrates others? Sorry, not me. And I have no sympathy with that.

Mark Guglielmo
201 Posted 29/11/2019 at 19:37:50
Joe @199, Marcelino did exactly that with Valencia. Took them from 12th to 4th & and a CL qualification in his first season ('17/'18) and won La Liga Manager of the Year. Kept them at 4th & a CL qualification in his second season, and added winning the Copa Del Rey, defeating a full-strength Barcelona side 1-2. He had a 49% and 50% win percentage in his 2 years.

And he's out of work right this very second, sacked in September probably because of them not getting out of the Group stage in the 2018/19 Champions League (tough group with Juventus & United).

I don't believe he's ever gotten a team relegated, but I'm not 100% certain.

Jer Kiernan
202 Posted 29/11/2019 at 19:40:23
Thanks for your time and input, I have disagreed with nearly everything Steve Fern has said on my time here and not had a problem with him.

It's the way Jay says what he does rubs me up the wrong way(and others obviously). I am indifferent to the content of his posts and find them middling at best and certainly not intimated by them. We are most likely both extremely stubborn characters – I know I am!

As above, I am calling off the dogs: you are very busy and could do without having to separate us pair.

"Although my footballing knowledge falls far short of what either of them can muster."

Also, don't sell yourself short – everybody's opinion has the same value.

Joe Corgan
203 Posted 29/11/2019 at 19:48:39
Mark 202: Marcelino should definitely be in running. Marcel and Marcelino! You’re right that he’s never been relegated. He’s had a few promotions in his career too. I believe he’s had a middling performance at a few clubs though, such as Zaragoza. Of course it’s difficult to judge someone’s historic performance on statistics alone.

He seems to be as good as a candidate as any.

Jay Wood

204 Posted 29/11/2019 at 20:18:49
Jer @ 200.

Der, Jer!

First, I'm not arsed one way or the other if you apologize or retract. I considered that part of your post was directed at Michael, not me. I can take the slings and arrows. You, as many have seen, go into meltdown and get personally abusive very quickly.

Second, in rushing to 'prove' (I really don't know what) you trip over yourself again by acknowledging that it was YOU that initiated the exchange with me after I posted my 'No ta, very much' post by asking me to provide an alternative to Howe.

And yes, I batted your request away because I considered it was, and remains, irrelevant. A person's opinion on rumoured managers (that's all I was commenting on) is not rendered invalid because they don't put up an alternative name as you demanded.

Of course, it suits you to fabricate that I am now being both hypocritical and disingenuous in offering the biog I did on Jorge Jesus, even though several times I repeated that I was not nominating him, nor endorsing him, to be our next manager.

It also suits you to attack me, the person, rather than engage in genuine debate about the respective qualities of, for example, Howe v Jesus.

I've offered a pretty comprehensive one on Jesus. You regard it as devious as it only talks up the positives.

So here's a suggestion for you Jer. If you are so keen on promoting Eddie Howe as the future Everton manager, I won't begrudge you not being transparent and honest as you demand of me by listing his failures and weaknesses.

Just give us the full-blown positive review of why he represents the 'only viable option' to Everton at this time as you claim.

Hint: saying he's done well at 'poxy Bournemouth', and arguing that 'he plays open attacking football so of course his team is going to get a pasting now and again' isn't going to be a winning one.

Jer Kiernan
205 Posted 29/11/2019 at 20:40:42
@ Jay

OK against all my better judgements, I will take you on your word that you are not promoting anybody for the current position and have no suggestion to offer( but only who should NOT be manager ) as I said last week pre the impartial (pro) Jesus article. This been the case there is nothing further to discuss.

Rob Halligan
206 Posted 29/11/2019 at 20:52:33
Steve Ferns and Jay Wood are being very thoughtful and doing plenty of research before they post. Most people on here just dive in saying "such a manager is shite" just because they have never heard of, or know very little about the manager in question. I would believe anything Steve and Jay say, probably before 99.9% of posters on here.
Gerry Ring
207 Posted 29/11/2019 at 21:23:17
I’ve heard enough of the defense of Silva. His managerial decisions are nothing short of horrendous since he took over at Everton. We’re staring relegation in the face and I don’t regard his “record” in Greece or Portugal of relevance given his worse than miserable record since coming to the Premiership. The next manager we appoint should be selected on his most recent record not on what he did 10 years ago. He bought a striker that he won’t play and is playing a midfielder who wouldn’t get his place in the Scottish 2nd division. Enough said.
Tony Hill
208 Posted 29/11/2019 at 22:00:52
I agree with that, Rob @207. People like Steve and Jay make the effort and put in the hard time. They're not everyone's cup of tea and often they're not mine but that's the point: they put themselves up to fuel debate and they're unafraid to have a voice.

Actually, I don't think there are many on here who are bland, come to think of it. Just different colours, sizes and styles.

Gerry Ring
209 Posted 29/11/2019 at 22:48:03
If Silva had done the level of research that Jay & Steve does, we mightn’t be in the shit we’re in!
Jay Tee
210 Posted 30/11/2019 at 14:59:19
I understand that the Board asked Guardiola, Klopp, Mourhino, Rodgers, Simeone and Allegri but they all laughed heartily and sang "You're going down, going down" repeatedly. I woke up then.

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