Ancelotti: Zero chance of Holgate leaving Everton

Now £60m plus Stones that’s a different matter.

Oooof. As predicted by a few on TW when they first saw Mason play; he is the better boy from Barnsley.

I'd pass on this

Holgate showing a lot of good quality now after a bit of a so so start. Becoming more reliable. I would be happy with him and Mina as firs choice next season with some quality back up, as long as we can get the defensive mid I place ahead of them

If City truly want him this will prevent the lad from accepting new terms now and ensure we sell our latest top player for chicken feed as we did last summer.

But hey ho it's better to tie overage cast offs like Scneids and Bolasie and young players like Pennington who have no chance of making it to long term contracts.

We need a heart on sleeve defender, this was something that even hit me even more when we tossed away those late goals against Newcastle when they were bombarding us with high balls, our two central defenders Mina and Holgate were missing presumed dead in the face of the onslaught.

I think Holgate next to a Terry Butcher type defender might work, but to sit here and say I’m really convinced about Holgate (or Mina or Keane ) for that matter would be wrong, none are great at what their first job should be.

I therefore also think that with Gomes now fit again, in the summer we will try to recruit a new CH and another creative CMF the same interchangeable role.

I think that Michael Keane may well then be sold.

I am sure that Ancellotti has no intention of selling Richarlison, Holgate, SCL, Gomes, Davies or any of our future stars.

It saddens me to say it because when he first came to light I said he reminded me of Beckenbauer, and with the ball he still can, but Der Kaiser hardly ever made a mistake and was well capable of "looking after himself", and others.

He seems to me to be a lad too much in love with himself but he's still fairly young (25) so he still has time to reach the heights albeit I have way more faith in Mason.

I meant I'd definitely pass on any deal regarding Holgate.

I would imagine if any are sold without that being the wish of Ancelotti, then I think Moshiri might be looking for another manager. As for Stones coming back I always say whether it be a player or a manager never go back it very rarely works out. Plus what will that say to our young aspiring lads in the Under 23 set up, the chances of making the first team are slim or non existent.

The reason Barca were linked with the astronomical sum for Richarlison was because he had just signed a long term contract and so that reflected in the proposed fee.

We will not be financially recompensed should there be an element of truth in the reports.

Yes exactly, Brian, this wouldn't fit in with the explicit strategy that Carlo and Brands have set out. Unless the lad were top drawer.

Paul #21 I wouldn't go as far as calling him a bag of shite, as you say (I thought he was an exciting signing when we got him), but the fawning over, and predictions about, Stones from some of our fans when he was with us were also OTT and ultimately misplaced. Predictions of certain success or failure can come back to bite you. A pity it hasn't worked out for the lad as he would have wanted.

I hope!

It could be a ploy from Holgate's camp or it could be fake news but it highlights our vulnerability and it should have been sorted now as Mason is an established first-team regular.

Strong terms mate. You are right though, he was never the player some made him out to be.

Zouma on the other hand is on less than half of that...

On a separate issue, I see Barkley could be offloaded by Chelsea in the summer. He’s 26 now, it says. Has he reached his potential yet do you think? At least they should get more back for him than they paid us.

But as Conor points out, it would be wise to tie Holgate down to an improved and extended contract now.

Interest in the lad will only grow if he continues in the rich vein of form he is in. It will increase further if he makes the England Euro squad and gets game time.

The most negligent Everton has ever been in this respect was letting 18-year-old Wayne Rooney go off to Euro 2004 where he announced himself to the world, with just one year left on his contract.

When the inevitable interest came, Everton was in no position to retain him or bargain for a better deal. Promises of making him the highest paid footballer in Everton's history and making him captain came too late.

I hope Brands is very much onto this and that we will see the announcement of extended contracts for both Mason and Dom before much longer.

I agree with all the points you make, we must be a bit more savvy and get players tied down sooner.

Jay, I have more confidence in DCL signing an extension than I do Mason. Just a feeling.

Mason Holgate is a player I have enjoyed improve a lot this year, he is getting better and will improve further, keep him. Same goes for Dominic Calvert-Lewin. As for Richarlison he is on his way to be a world class game changing player, keep him in a blue shirt for at least the next 2 or 3 years . JJK and Tom will enter the fray too. Mina is still very young and most of us feel Anthony Gordon is going to make an impact.

This is the nucleus of a blossoming young team that will only get better. It has proper quality that puts us in with a good shout next season to achieve top 4 and win a trophy.

Here's a cunning plan..

Don't sell our best players . buy other teams' best players instead, then we might win something for a change.

sorry missed out Moise Kean too, who is going to be explosive as he grows into the team.

Isn't it amazing how quickly that barrow turned into a bandwaggon.

"predictions about Stones from some of our fans when he was with us were also OTT and ultimately misplaced"

I had to read that twice to make sure it wasn't a typo... Then I saw the poster.

So let me get this straight; Stones didn't get hunted by the two most successful managers in this country since Ferguson retired? He didn't go and play for a top club?... He didn't win league titles and cups? He didn't win all those caps for England?

Stones is in his mid-twenties. If he can shake off the last 18 months of injuries, which have so frustrated Pep. He can go on to win even more. The people who correctly predicted all those things for him (those who can spot the blindingly obvious) may prove to be even righter than they were in the first place.

I can understand the fear some have that predictions may come back and bite them on the arse... Especially the ones who can't even get it right with the benefit of hindsight

He didn't want to stay, and I can't blame him, for the abuse he used to get. So I doubt he would be in a hurry to get back here.

"I think it's a rumour. If it's not a rumour, I can say Mason Holgate is an important part for the future of Everton and there is no possibility of him going to another club."

Talking of Stones, and the disparity in opinions on his ability, I think somewhere in the middle of the very strong-minded various opinions would be about right. Hopefully the lad gets his career back on track with a move.

With broad reference to posts over the course of Stones's career to date. He is not absolute shite, that's obvious. He is also not Bobby Moore reincarnated; that is even more obvious.

Crazy to think that 4 months ago we probably would have sold Holgate for £15-20m in a heartbeat. Have a good run of ten games or so in the Premier League in your early twenties and your value triples.

Still early days for Holgate but I love his composure. Needs to work on his positioning and concentration and then he could be the real deal with a good partner.

Also how about the wonderful erudite 'supporter' who yelled abuse at him pre-season after his transfer request, do you remember the clip? What was Stones? A fucking rat? yelled at him from yards away, for well over a minute. What a class supporter.

I will say again, he's better than Mina or Keane.

He is far too cocky for his own good and has been found out as more teams are adopting a pressing game in the last few years.

Yes Sam, and if Moshiri wasn’t here I’m pretty sure Bill would have sold him as well.

Sam, I’ve binged watched “ Traitors “. Was that you in it? Excellent series, hopefully door left open for another series.

At this point, he's about as useful as a knife at a gunfight. He's barely mobile, mentally broken, probably seriously needs to retire asap for his own health.

Guardiola has clearly lost faith in the player and it may be time for him to look elsewhere. He may not have scaled the heights many predicted but he is still a top Premier League centre-half and has plenty of time to rediscover his form.

He isn't the most physical and has always played his best beside a beast but, since Kompany has left, he hasn't had that.

Liverpool are about to win the title with... some lad anyone could have bought from Celtic, a left-back from Hull, dimwit Henderson from Sunderland, a winger from Southampton and some lad from Hoffenheim who is not quite a winger, not quite an attacking midfielder. Point is, we don't half turn our noses up at quality and potential on this site. Messi – too small, only done it at one club.

You're correct, it seems that some people castigate any player who happens to be in possession of a first-team Everton shirt, but as soon as they are released either temporarily or permanently, their stock rises exponentially.

Worse still those wearing red, regardless of talent or contribution to the other lot's cause are almost worshipped by some Evertonians. It's a funny old game.

Nail on the head.
Pep has a desperate injury list with centre backs this season. Has he called on Stones to help him out with the situation ?

It's not just this season either.
Have a look at the amount of league starts made by Stones each season since he left us.
Pep bought him.
Pep doesn't trust him.

He is a myth in my opinion.
A legend before he was a player.
He STILL isn't a top class player.
Pep playing his best defensive midfielder as a CB before Stones tells you what you need to know.

Like any footballer, he had his faults, his main failings, in my opinion, were over-confidence on occasion, and not realising that there were times when the best ball was the 'Welly' into Row Z.

I think the game that Paul [44] refers to was against Spurs a few seasons ago, when he dallied with the ball near the goal-line in the final minutes, but I don't think he lost possession.

The unknown is how much Stones' hard-partying ways and tabloid-worthy social adventures have impacted both his health and his play. He certainly hasn't spent all his time conditioning.

I see no chance he'd come back to Goodison with his tail tucked. I think he'd prefer anywhere else, including Europe, for his next employment.

Either way, don't sell Holgate.

I’d be surprised If he’s peaked, because I don’t think he’s got anywhere near to fulfilling his true potential, but I don’t think he can do that at City now, because he’s probably lost to much respect off his teammates, for decisions he’s made that have got nothing to do with football, and he now needs to find the mental strength to overcome this, because his talent has never been in doubt.

On a number of occasions, he has spoken about Stones becoming the very best, but he now seems to be expressing doubts about Stones's desire to get there. He appears to be labeling him a bit of a sick note.

When asked why Stones can barely play back-to-back games, he waved his and and said "injuries, injuries, injuries, injuries". Later, he is tackled by the BBC on the subject, and he was far less sympathetic.

"To reach his full potential, John has to play regularly. In the last 3½ seasons, he could not do it. He has to be fit. After 2-3 games, he fell down and can't play."

Unlike the philistines and the "avit" merchants on here, Pep recognises the sheer quality Stones possess... but he clearly has his doubts about his desire to become the best. He goes on, "He is still young and his future is ahead of him. It's in his hands and head to become one of the best. It depends on him."

There may be legs in this story. The Spanish Maestro is clearly having his patience tested.

Sounds like he doesnt belief Stones is as in love with the game as he should be

Yet when he picked the teenager Garcia ahead of Stones last month against Sheffield, afterwards Pep said of Garcia: "He never misses one game, he never fails. Always was perfect. He's a guy who doesn't make mistakes. He played 5-10 he was perfect, he didn't make a mistake. So so pleased."

That should have hit Stones right in the stones.

Regardless, you don't go back. John Stones lost it with EFC fans, many times but the Swansea game, for me exposed his level, nearly 4 years, ago.

I don't want him back, he had his chance, and Mason is our best defensive footballer.

No deal with Man City, in my view, it's not on the agenda, and Mason's career, is better with EFC.

City... in football terms, and history?

Djibril Sidibé – to buy or not to buy?

Pep, whichever way you try to present it, has effectively and rightly slaughtered Stones for his performances - albeit in weasel football-speak, which is the bane of "philistine" "avit" football fans I suppose, and even others with the loftier, nuanced aspirations you epitomise as it suits you on whatever day on whatever subject you address.

Pep is right, with the philistine avits, and Stones needs to pull his finger out.

Like you do.

With Sidibe, the issue is talent. He has bags of it, and those tackling and interception numbers just scream it, despite his positional disasters. To me, £12m is just a ridiculously low price tag for that kind of natural ability. If Carlo can teach him proper positioning and technique (much as Moyes did years ago with Coleman), then we've got a modern right-back at a bargain price. If not, he can either be converted to a defensive midfielder (his ball-winning numbers almost equal Gana's) or he can be sold a year from this summer for a handsome profit above £12m. Guaranteed.

Kenny is a different issue – a fierce homegrown warrior who succeeds beyond his talent, or lack thereof, and still just 23 and learning. If he can grow, he increases his value either as a player or a sale asset, and I see no reason not to give him that shot. I do not believe he will turn out to be a top Premier League right-back, but I'm nowhere near sure enough to ship him out.

My hunch remains as it has always been – that it'll be Seamus who moves on this summer, and Sidibe and Kenny who will be the right-backs next season. Our priority shouldn't be at positions we already have covered – not when we have an existential crisis in midfield. Our first three buys in July should be midfielders.

Read your post then read mine. See a difference?

I put up direct quotes from Guardiola. What he actually said – still up there. You on the other hand, try to rewrite the facts by telling us what he REALLY meant.

Your numerous Finch Farm comments and attacks on junior coaches have demonstrated your propensity to speak with authority about things you clearly know nothing about – although it is refreshing to see you give an opinion without blaming Franny Jeffers or John Ebbrell... or Uncle Bill.

Guardiola did not win all those trophies by engaging in your imaginary "weasel football-speak". If anything, he is famed for doing the opposite. He is ruthless.

Read the quotes again... slowly. The guy doesn't criticize the player's performance on the pitch. He questions his desire to get on the fucking pitch in the first place. If his performances were the issue, he wouldn't be so frustrated; he would simply leave him out all-together.

Get back to me when you have worked out the difference between adulation and recognition of a man's achievements.

Certainly RB is not the priority. I think CM and RM are the biggest issues though it’s possible we might buy a striker (Edouard) and move Richie to RM. I’d prefer to keep him up front.

I’m not so sure we’d definitely make profit on Sidibe. He’ll be 28 by the time we buy him and not that many clubs want 29/30 year old RBs with suspect positioning, especially if he plays less next year. £12m is a decent price certainly but my worry is you just have to replace him 2 or 3 years down the line whereas someone like Digne is a better full-back, will last much longer, potentially earn a big profit and only cost £6m more.

As for Kenny, I’ve always liked him but I’m afraid he doesn’t possess the physical attributes I’m looking for in a modern full back. He could be an excellent back up but I’m not sure he’d want that and if Schalke offer £15m plus sell on I’d let him go.

It depends what is out there but given how much Ancelloti uses the full backs I think we need a RB who matches Digne and that means aiming a bit higher; either coming Summer or the one after. Aarons would be great but there are a few talented young RBs out there.

I agree with the author that we should sell Kenny and be looking at Aaron's with Seamus as back up. He was excellent again last night against Leicester and what I like about him was that he went bonkers at his team mates deep in injury time so obviously has a bit of back bone as well as his obvious talents.

The RB position is a tricky one. If we pass on Sidibe (and personally I think we should) then I would try to sell Coleman (as much as it pains me to say) I think the MLS would be a great destination for him, he isn't getting any younger and loyalty doesn't buy us trophies.

I know you like your transfer gossip like me (Robert Tressell posted an interesting comment on another thread querying if this is because it's been the only thing to shout about/bring excitement for the past years, I concur!) but who would you like to sign as a replacement RB to battle it out with Kenny next season?

I like Atal at Nice, Arrons of Norwich and maybe the young lad at PSV – Dumfries (I think) who I believe is well thought of. I never thought I'd hear myself say it but even if we manage to offload Cenk to Palace or whoever I don't think we need to buy a striker, of course we need to buy a quality RM for that to be the case and keep Richarlison up top. Kean and a few run-outs for Simms should be ample cover.

Allan has been excellent for the last few seasons but there are some signs of his form/ability just waning a little. His athleticism is a big part of his game and at 29 I'd be looking younger unless the price was very reasonable (which would surprise me). Doucore is also a very good player but similarly i'd prefer someone early 20s who'd be a bit cheaper and expect lower wages (FFP will be a big consideration this summer). Sangare is my pick but the likes of Phillips, Bellingham, Soumare, Owusu, Nkunku, Koopmeiners, Zakaria, Zielinksi, Florentino all offer various possibilities. Perhaps Buendia could play in the middle with Gbamin, he certainly makes alot of tackles!

At right back I think Aarons is the obvious pick and would hopefully not be crazy expensive in terms of fee or wages. Atal looks a top class players and will have suitors i'm sure. Klostermann at Leipzig is a good player and I like Maehle at Genk and Dest at Ajax as well as Dumfries who Brands must know well from PSV.

I agree we don't need a striker though the Edouard rumours are interesting. Think he's a really promising, creative forward who would partner either DCL or Kean well and Richie could then add more goals from the midfield that way potentially?

Also, would you take Lukaku back? For me, he has done as much at Everton as Stones did, before he left for Man City.

He will want Italian-style defensive discipline and organisation as his foundation stone. Sidibé has his qualities but his defensive discipline line and positional seance is sometime too wayward.

He will be commissioning reports on Kenny and will make a decision as to whether he is good enough to be No 1 RB. Seamus could be kept as backup.

If not we will be in the market for one.

A defence of Digne, Mina, Holgate and Kenny looks solid to me – with Holgate being the pick of the bunch. And because I'm old-fashioned, it does make a difference to me that the team has a solid base of English local and northern lads.

As for Stones, he did let his ego get in his own way when playing for us. There is nothing wrong with putting the ball in Row Z. I think that he had his mind on trying to show the suitors how clever he was. I think he is one of those guys who has bags of ability but suffered from that problem of a man with all of the "tools", who didn't always know which one to use at any particular time.

I have seen players at my lowly level make exactly the same mistakes. When you have a trick up your sleeve, or the ability to pass, dribble or jink your way out of trouble, you can go for the wrong option.

Being good at football at any level is about learning to make the right choices. Experience usually improves such decision-making, and I reckon that, today, John is a much better player than the lad who left us.

I would welcome him back. The fact that he and Holgate can both play out from the back is not a bad thing – they would soon learn when and who.

I wonder if we could tempt him to come back under Carlo? Perhaps our coach's tender approach would bring him back to his best.