Planning permission for Bramley-Moore Dock expected in October

Friday, 24 July, 2020 148comments  |  Jump to last

According to a Liverpool City Region Combined Authority document, Everton are expected to get the green light for their new dockside stadium in the autumn.

The Liverpool Echo have published details of the LCRBA's post-COVID-19 Economic Recovery Plan of which the Blues' proposed stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock is a major component.

Metro Mayor Steve Rotheram has apparently been expounding to Government in Westminster the benefits of the new ground which is anticipated to provide a significant boost to the local ecomomy and create around 15,000 jobs.

Prime minister, Boris Johnson has indicated that his government would “build, build, build” as part of the UK's efforts to recover from the economic impacts of the coronavirus pandemic and, as such, Everton's Bramley-Moore Dock stadium and the Goodison Legacy Project are likely to be viewed favourably in Westminster.

The stadium's completion is expected to kickstart the wider regeneration of the northern "Ten Streets" area across Regent Road from the docks.

Everton submitted a planning application for the 52,888-seater stadium last December and were told that a decision on both BMD and the proposed redevelopment of the Goodison Park site would be delivered by the Council this year.

The Authority's document states that, “Planning consent is anticipated to be awarded in October 2020.

“Final contractual arrangements will be finalised in Q4 2020 with construction starting shortly thereafter.

“The stadium build is anticipated to be around 3 years.”

The report also makes mention of Everton's plans to fund the stadium's construction which is estimated at around £500m:

“There are significant abnormal costs associated with the complex, brownfield site, including land remediation/restoration and the need to preserve historic dock features.

“The site contains three separate listed structures that will be protected or enhanced through the redevelopment.

“The club will finance the overwhelming majority of development using private finance, raised from commercial sources and existing club investors.

“Final negotiations are underway.”

 

Reader Comments (148)

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Colin Glassar
1 Posted 24/07/2020 at 06:50:40
After another absolutely awful season, finally a bit of good news.

I'll still only believe it when I see it though.

Tony Hill
2 Posted 24/07/2020 at 07:04:37
Yes, I believe now that this is going to happen and it's excellent news. It's going to to be a superb stadium which will be a big boost for the area and for Blues everywhere.

Very cheering.

Steve Carse
4 Posted 24/07/2020 at 07:09:14
Good news indeed... but, with all the uncertainties surrounding football, I wonder if the statement about construction starting shortly after the permission is given might be a bit outdated.
Sam Hoare
5 Posted 24/07/2020 at 07:14:39
Good stuff! Look forward to seeing the first spade in the earth.
Eric Myles
6 Posted 24/07/2020 at 07:37:36
Financing from existing club investors! Maybe Bill has ringfenced some of the profit he made from his share sales to invest in BMD?
Brent Stephens
7 Posted 24/07/2020 at 07:40:09
Good. And good to see all the positive reaction so far!
Christy Ring
8 Posted 24/07/2020 at 07:41:05
Great news, looking forward to a state-of-the-art stadium in Liverpool and sicken the redshite.
Barry Rathbone
9 Posted 24/07/2020 at 07:56:15
I'm terrified of replacing Goodison, the downturn in fortunes of clubs building a new stadium cannot be ignored. Spurs are already showing signs of the curse with Pochettino falling from grace and footballing penury imminent with Covid.

And the design – don't get me started. It's like a huge air conditioning pipe exhausting over the Mersey.

Gerry Quinn
10 Posted 24/07/2020 at 08:06:38
Cheer up, Barry – you sound like the Entertainments Officer from the "Marie Celeste"!
Derek Knox
11 Posted 24/07/2020 at 08:21:24
Barry @9, I like the design, you suggest it "looks like an air conditioning exhausting over the Mersey" but I suppose we all have different tastes and opinions, which is healthy.

I believe there were certain parameters for the architects to adhere to, concerning the height of the structure etc, plus it had to conform to a design in keeping with it being a Unesco Heritage Site too.

Martin Berry
12 Posted 24/07/2020 at 08:25:52
Everton were never going to set themselves up for failure on this project, having gone this far and for it not too happen would be a PR disaster and embarrassment if they did not deliver.

With the plans in place and the operations moving to the Liver Building, everything is in place to drive the project through.

Exciting times as the stadium will happen and be an iconic statement for Everton and the area.

Steve Ferns
13 Posted 24/07/2020 at 08:28:06
I think Kenwright is currently pumping iron in his private gym, ready for the photo opp as the guy to put the spade in the ground.
Martin Mason
14 Posted 24/07/2020 at 08:30:44
What an amazing milestone for the club that will be.
Darren Hind
15 Posted 24/07/2020 at 08:34:38
Barry,

There is evidence to support your theory. I know you will be thinking about all titles Arsenal won before they went to The Emirates, West Ham fans looking back at Upton Park with a dewy-eyed nostalgia... etc etc...

But there is something radically wrong at our club. There isn't one of us who hasn't got a theory as to what it is... But the bottom line is nobody seems to be able to solve whatever problems are preventing us from shaking ourselves from seemingly eternal mediocrity.

Much as I have loved the old lady and the memories which I will always cherish, my overwhelming feeling is if ever a club needed to start afresh...

The Kopites are desperate for this not to happen. There's a fucking good reason for that.

Martin Mason
16 Posted 24/07/2020 at 08:40:57
Darren, surely a man with your vast knowledge and understanding of the game and commerce in general would be able to identify what was radically wrong with the club and let those idiots who are currently running the club know what they need to do?
John Raftery
17 Posted 24/07/2020 at 08:44:07
Originally, planning approval was expected to be granted in the summer. Now that it has slipped to mid-autumn and the build is expected to take three years, I assume we will not be moving into Bramley-Moore Dock until the start of the 2024-25 season.
Tony Abrahams
18 Posted 24/07/2020 at 08:51:35
I've heard he's ring-fenced about 㿞k, for a statue of himself, Eric.

Although it might only be a rumour, because he's hoping after the magnificent job he's done over the years, managing to keep plucky little Everton in the big league, that the fans are probably going to have a whip-round to raise the money!

Alan McGuffog
19 Posted 24/07/2020 at 08:54:58
I'd hate to see a downturn in our fortunes. Imagine we may not win any silverware for 25 years. Scary.
Paul Ellam
20 Posted 24/07/2020 at 08:55:44
Great news after another below-average season. I would feel loads better if we had a piece of silverware to show off as well.

If only our Board would treat the cup competitions with a bit of respect and value them as most fans do. Still, we're still in the Premier League – and that's all that matters to some.

Darren Hind
21 Posted 24/07/2020 at 08:57:58
I do know, Martin. It's trying to find the words to explain it to people like you which I find exhausting.
Ray Roche
22 Posted 24/07/2020 at 08:59:43
Good news and, as Darren says, if it pisses the RS off, it's worth every penny. I just hope it's finished in time for the old boys on here to enjoy it.

Jonathan Tasker must be suicidal.

Joe McMahon
23 Posted 24/07/2020 at 09:01:21
Barry, Goodison hasn't seen any glory days for decades, apart from the last day of the season to stay up.

We need this more than any other club, we have a lot of catching up to do. Cheer up, man!

Rob Halligan
24 Posted 24/07/2020 at 09:06:24
Ray, I've just got out of bed, made a cup of coffee and read your last sentence. I've nearly choked with laughter and got coffee all down me front. Hilarious!!
Martin Mason
25 Posted 24/07/2020 at 09:06:47
Why are some fans obsessed with winning silverware? Genuine question btw. I believe it's a very small component of how "successful" a club is.

Most clubs now have zero possibility of winning silverware and that includes Everton. For me, success will be improving our league position consistently, playing football that is good to watch, performing well against the teams who have the resources to be successful, that we continue to develop young talent and that we compete well for all competitions.

If we win silverware, then that isn't the highest level of success for me: only the icing on the cake.

Len Hawkins
26 Posted 24/07/2020 at 09:16:47
Alan McGuffog, brilliant – Everton have got the downturn out of the way before moving to a new stadium. What foresight and ingenuity by the Board! As soon as the stadium opens, we will hit the ground running.

As for the bogs, will they have hand-dryers or roller towels? And as a tribute to Bill Kewright, all toilet rolls will have a portrait of him on each sheet. It will make a change from Gerrard.

Nick Page
27 Posted 24/07/2020 at 09:24:14
The Bill Kenwright Memorial Stadium
Terence Leong
28 Posted 24/07/2020 at 09:25:15
@Martin (#25), I understand where you are coming from, as in that a team could be winning a trophy and then go down to the tubes, because of mis-management (think Portsmouth after they won the FA Cup in 2008). Likewise, how we have missed out on capitalizing on the successes of the mid-80s.

But the fact remains, winning silverware is an important indicator, and helps the club (fans, players and all other stakeholders) build on things. So, it's not merely the icing on the cake.

When we look at Arsenal, I think it's a travesty that Wenger didn't get a chance to build after their 2004 'Invincibles' season. Because the club was more concerned about generating revenue, and expected Wenger to keep pulling out bargains. Which he did for more than a decade:

To continually under-spend vis-a-vis the other competitors (Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool and then Man City).

To achieve top 4 almost every year since 2004 till he retired.

Is that success? Perhaps so, in so many aspects – the club is well managed, supported, blah blah. But now, it's gonna take forever for them to rebuild.

So, while winning isn't everything and the only thing – like what you've mentioned, there are only a few trophies available – but progress must be towards winning something as often as possible (even Sir Alex Ferguson only expected the club to aim to win something each season, as opposed to the Premier League or Champions League etc).

Ray Roche
29 Posted 24/07/2020 at 09:28:44
Rob@24.

Just got out of bed??? Lazy get!
😁

John Keating
30 Posted 24/07/2020 at 09:29:34
Tony @18,

I would imagine he'll be hoping our “lovable rogues” neighbours will damage the Dixie statue. He can just lop Dixie's head off and replace it with his own.

Just think, future generations will be taught that this was the World's Greatest Evertonian on the way to the Boys Pen, aged 70-odd, with a ball for a half-time kick about with his mates!

Steve Harris
31 Posted 24/07/2020 at 09:30:10
Bloody hell, Martin!

If we can't obsess about winning a trophy, then we might as well fucking just give up!! As unlikely as that seems at the moment, surely that dream is the only thing that keeps us going??

John Zapa
32 Posted 24/07/2020 at 09:30:17
My expectations for the coming seasons:

1: TV revenue will be reduced in the next 3-year deal.

2: Most clubs will reduce ticket prices to encourage fans to return; most will struggle to be at 80% attendance capacity for a season average.

3: Overall sponsorship revenue for football clubs will be reduced.

4: Premier League prize money will be reduced, reflecting the league's reduced income.

These are the main sources of revenue for football clubs. If this happens, and the indications are leading to this, which brings me to the main point, the financial feasibility of the new stadium.

𧺬M+ to build, with approximately 㿅M/year repayments for 25 years. The club is currently running at a loss and will have a significant loss for the 3rd year running. It makes absolutely no sense for any loss-making business to spend an absolute fortune, when future revenues are likely to drop, and take such a burden and risk. I hope I'm wrong about my predictions but I just cannot see any business case for this stadium.

Tony Shelby
33 Posted 24/07/2020 at 09:33:22
If we're going to finish mid-table whilst playing mediocre football, I'd rather we did it in a state-of-the-art, riverside stadium that makes the Redshite sick to their stomachs.

Joe McMahon
34 Posted 24/07/2020 at 09:41:38
Gotta be better than tarting up Bullens again with sandpaper, blue paint and your own air freshener for the lovely toilets. Those toilets remind me of the Reading festival in the 80s.
Mick Conalty
35 Posted 24/07/2020 at 09:45:30
We have got the Liver Building and Bramley-Moore Dock. Now we need to take the rest of the Waterfront and turn it Blue.

The R/S might have the arse licking media. But we will have the City.


Dave Abrahams
36 Posted 24/07/2020 at 09:46:00
Darren (21), loved that comment.

I bet when Martin Mason enters a room, he sucks all the oxygen out of it.

Tony Abrahams
37 Posted 24/07/2020 at 09:49:25
Seriously though, John K, my son's mate has just lost his father way too young, and after the funeral, they put his flowers next to the Dixie-Dean statue. After the flare was found on the statue, they went and had a look: flowers strewn everywhere, and scorch marks all over the statue.

I'm not blaming Liverpool fans but whoever is doing stuff like this needs to be put in stocks in Stanley Park, because things like this only start tit for tat, and the respect levels of each respective fan base are already on the floor.

Our song has always been “We shall not be moved”; we've stood the test of time on both sides of the fence, and if it amazes me, a dyed in the wool toffee, the support Everton still receive, then what must it do to outsiders?

Speak for yourself “Mad Martin” aka The Duke!

John Cook
38 Posted 24/07/2020 at 09:51:18
This new stadium is a legacy for future Evertonians. The thought of staying at Goodison Park for another 20+ years is scary to me.

I'm 69 next birthday and have, like many fans, seen the good times and bad since 1960. However, we have a lot more fans that haven't seen any success and turn up every week in what has become a shithouse of a ground with a quick paint job done every year.

Yes, we old 'uns can wallow in the nostalgia of great nights at Goodison but many fans can't. I for one cannot wait for the new ground and the heralding of a new chapter for this great club. It represents our birthright and a legacy for all future Evertonians.

I'm not that brilliant with words these days, like Darren or John Daley, but I hope you get my point.

Christine Foster
39 Posted 24/07/2020 at 10:00:05
Martin, do you ever dream? In your pragmatic world, you are happy to settle for mediocrity? Presumably just happy to finish 6th every year?

But then I suspect you loved David Moyes, because we did enough to be best of the rest? Worshipped Kenwright for doing a wonderful job and worry that Carlos Ancelotti will only bring hope to the fore and disaster will inevitably result in relegation?

I agree we all measure success slightly differently, but to me, winning with style is what I expect. Silverware is a measure of quality, not of long-term sustainability. Without the desire or passion to achieve one might not bother to get out of bed.

Steve Brown
40 Posted 24/07/2020 at 10:00:10
Darren is right, there is a correlation between the benefits of the new stadium to Everton and the anxiety it is causing the red shite. They hate the idea and I love watching their evident deep discomfort.

They can't even whinge about it being funded by Liverpool City Council because it looks increasingly like private investment. By the time it is completed, Klopp will be about to return to Germany and they can begin their natural decline.

Brian Murray
41 Posted 24/07/2020 at 10:06:16
Tony Abrahams @37,

You say you're not blaming the Liverpool fans for targeting an Everton statue. I suppose the blue Liver Building and the Rupert's Tower on Everton Brow was just random vandalism?

Jeez, get a grip, man... it was all targeted for a reason. Outraged by everything – ashamed of nothing. You know who stands by that motto, matey.

Brian Harrison
42 Posted 24/07/2020 at 10:09:31
Other than Farhad walking away, I can't see the new stadium not being built. Yes, as many have pointed out, there will be less money from Sky and sponsors but for us not to build the new stadium would be the ultimate betrayal of our fans.

We haven't had much to cheer us over the last few decades, and at least with the prospect of a new stadium, it gives us some hope that things will get better.

Trevor Powell
43 Posted 24/07/2020 at 10:26:47
Is this the time for Usmanov to step in?

Can ToffeeWeb organise a poll for who should turn the first spade over? Colin Harvey would be my vote straight off the top of my head! Perhaps Big Nev or even Kevin Ratcliffe?

My long shot bet would be Brett Angell or Per Krøldrup!!!!

Paul Ellam
44 Posted 24/07/2020 at 10:28:21
Martin @25,

Winning silverware is the goal to what all clubs aspire to, surely? Everything you list as what you want the club to do leads to it. That's the end product. If you play good football, beat teams and challenge for cups you will eventually win something.

That's what I want – to compete to win. It's what defines a club – how many trophies they win equates to how successful that club is.

It's also what keeps a club relevant. Look at Arsenal and Liverpool for examples. They haven't won 1 title between them (until this year) since 2004 but have won numerous other cups. You're right that only a tiny amount of clubs can win the league title but they proved that, if you keep winning other trophies, the club stays in the spotlight. And that in turn means more people buy into the club, with sponsorship, fan revenue, player interest etc.

I would argue that winning a trophy is the highest priority for any club and, despite the Premier League era media convincing us that top 10 is a good season, is basically what all footballers want to do and be able to look back on when they have retired.

Martin Mason
45 Posted 24/07/2020 at 10:31:01
Christine @69,

Acceptance of mediocrity by some fans is a total myth. Tell me, what do I do that is acceptance of mediocrity? What do you do to not accept mediocrity?

Irrational negativity and constant complaining are not doing something about mediocrity, they are a weakness in supporters. Define mediocrity as applied to a Limited Company Soccer Club when so-called mediocrity is mostly just a signal of limited resources?

As I ask Darren, what would you do about it given that you have no influence in the running of the club? With this ground issue and the effort being put into turning the club around, I see nothing but positivity; the only negative is the temporary difficulties we have due to past mistakes. The important thing is that the club has learned from these mistakes.

Paul Ellam
46 Posted 24/07/2020 at 10:31:24
John @38,

Totally agree with you! I cannot wait to get in a new stadium and breathe life into this once great club.

I'm fed up of watching repeats of the '80s team. I want to watch repeats of a successful club now, and in the future.

Ken Kneale
47 Posted 24/07/2020 at 10:34:51
Martin – have you forgotten the motto of the club? Everton are what they are by striving to be the very best – it is the lapsing of those standards by those charged with running the club over the past 30 years that has led us to the precipice we now hover over – the sooner we get back to competing for and winning trophies the better for me.

I, like many, think that there is a disease running through the club at many levels; we need to get the "best of the rest" rubbish mentality that has pervaded the identity of the club in the Moyes & Kenwright era kicked out of the club, along with those that have profited handsomely from such mentality without giving very much if anything back in return.

Martin Mason
48 Posted 24/07/2020 at 10:41:39
Ken @47,

Our motto is absolutely meaningless as it is an impossibility for it to be delivered. It is nothing more than an aspiration and a millstone around the neck of the club.

Patrick McFarlane
49 Posted 24/07/2020 at 10:42:33
Martin has a point to some extent as there are a limited number of trophies to be won each season; however, at this point in time, I would be satisfied with Everton actually competing for those few prizes.

Mostly the club has exited the cups as soon as it meets a top club and, for most of the last 30 years, the club hasn't had any real impact at the top end of the league, never mind being considered as 'dark horses' for the title itself; that has to change and soon.

We all hope that the new stadium can be the catalyst for such a transformation. As ever, the situation with the stadium won't be enough on its own to provide the success we all crave but, with good governance and good fortune, it can only help.

Christine Foster
50 Posted 24/07/2020 at 10:55:46
Martin, to paraphrase your expectations, silverware is a myth, and for a club like Everton, they should measure success by knowing their place?

Sorry, I do not accept that as any measure of success but as an acceptance of mediocrity: not bad, not great but happy to be in the middle. That's what we have had for two decades. In what way would you deem that being successful?

Perhaps on a returns basis for the directors, it's been very successful... but, for a fan, for the players, for the future? Mediocrity is the antithesis of hope.

,
Jerome Shields
51 Posted 24/07/2020 at 11:05:52
Darren #15,

The Stadium will go ahead full steam, because it is one of the main ways of really growing Moshiri's investment. The other way is to develop a winning team. As you are aware, I think the main problem is at Finch Farm and it will be interesting to see what impact Ancelotti will have through his management and personal staff input on the current regime.

You did throw down the gauntlet to me some months back to prove my theory and I have been researching since. What I have found so far is that Finch Farm is a complex organisation, with some of the best facilities in the Premier League, and possibly Europe, according to Ancelotti. It has been built on the foundations of the famed School of Science and is a dominant force in the culture of Everton.

The analysis of what goes on there is complex and requires a lot of comparative analysis with other clubs. On top of this, within the organisation there has been changes in staff which appear to be the result of a power play between different interested parties in the club.

I still have a lot of research to do to prove my hypothesis.

Joe McMahon
52 Posted 24/07/2020 at 11:09:06
Ken, the club motto hasn't been relevant to anything on or off the pitch for over 30 years, a pitiful record against out neighbours alone speaks volumes.

I'm hoping to see Everton play in the champions league at this stadium before I'm 60. I'm 50 now, so it's not a huge ask. surely.

Derek Knox
53 Posted 24/07/2020 at 11:44:53
I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday, who is originally from Ireland and is a Wolves supporter, and he reminded me that it wasn't that long ago when they had a succession of managers and didn't seem to be going anywhere.

Look at them now; admittedly, they have a rich benefactor, and have made a very astute appointment with Nuño Espirito Santo. He has transformed them with some good buys – and without paying silly money either.

Jim Jennings
54 Posted 24/07/2020 at 12:01:23
“Why are some fans obsessed with winning silverware?”

Great question.

I mean why do all those Olympians obsess with standing on the podium, with a medal draped around their neck?

And why do those boxers obsess with getting that shitty belt wrapped around their waist?

Why do those NFL players obsess with having those tacky SuperBowl rings on their fingers?

And don't get me started on their fans!!!

Ken Kneale
55 Posted 24/07/2020 at 12:02:35
Martin – glad you were not around at the inception of Everton FC in 1878 – we would still be playing Sunday league.
Jason Li
56 Posted 24/07/2020 at 12:10:10
Let's get the stadium built. Once it's built, everyone will say it was necessary, no regrets etc.

Moshiri has shown his hand with Carlo that the playing side is a priority. I can see 3 major priorities: the playing side, stadium, and commercial revenue. We're doing all three, with capable people managing each project.

By the way, Carlo has agreed to 2 youth signings in his squad which will form the team for years to come, with Branthwaite already impressing. I've not seen the new left-back yet, but Carlo thinks he's not far off in an interview. That's 2 out of 11 sorted already within 6 months. He has Gordon and Kean to work on who already exist in the squad as youth players, so could be 4 out of 11 sorted in time for the new stadium.

You could count Richarlison in this as he's still very young, and I still think Dowell has a chance as a right midfielder who comes in on the left, or come off the bench if he's the top of 3 central midfielders in a game as a Number 10.

Trophies and a new stadium coming soon?

Stephen Vincent
57 Posted 24/07/2020 at 12:10:41
Mottos and mission statements are merely aspirational sentiments. The trouble is we haven't aspired to NSNO for 25 years.

When we played Watford all those years ago, there was an atmosphere, an expectation on Wembley Way; we knew we had won before kick off. Watford were just happy to be there.

37 years on, are we really in danger of becoming Watford, just glad of a day out?

Paul Hewitt
58 Posted 24/07/2020 at 12:28:01
I've seen plenty of projects get planning permission, then nothing.

Let's wait a see...

Martin Mason
59 Posted 24/07/2020 at 12:56:35
Jim @54,

Have you ever seen their fans doing that? You're not walking the walk, remember, just watching somebody else walk who takes all of the risk and bears all of the costs? You're comparing apples with oranges too – you can't compare man against man sport with competition between many high turnover Limited Companies.

I disagree that sportsmen only care about the medals around their necks, that is absolute rubbish. I ran, sailed and rowed and, like the vast majority, I knew that I wasn't going to get a medal, the excellence was always doing better than you had a right to expect.

Only football fans demand and expect trophies and have no other criteria of success.

Martin Mason
60 Posted 24/07/2020 at 13:08:45
Christine #@50,

I neither stated any of that nor at any time implied it.

Limited Company Directors making money from their risk and investment? Well knock me down with a feather; that is their absolute right and completely legal. Remember that they take the risk and do all of the work.

Everton are in no way mediocre as a club: nationally and worldwide they are in the top flight. That is mediocrity only if you make ridiculous comparisons against clubs who over the same time period have had far more resources.

Christine, please answer my question: What do I do to accept this so-called mediocrity and what do you do to not accept it? This club is doing nearly everything right now and is going places. Why is it only our own fans that are irrationally negative and expectant of immediate success along the way when success is the goal – not the beginning?

Patrick McFarlane
61 Posted 24/07/2020 at 13:18:24
I agree, Stephen #57, I bet few of us could recite the mottos of the silver-laden clubs... come to think of it, I'm not sure they even have them.
Billy Roberts
62 Posted 24/07/2020 at 13:52:18
Martin @59 & 60,

Can I suggest a few things:

It is not just football fans that expect trophies. How about Rugby League fans? Rugby Union fans? County cricket fans? Ice hockey fans? Baseball fans?

You ask how we reject mediocrity? Thousands of us completed a survey which left the club, city council, architect etc in no doubt that Goodison was no longer acceptable. To many, I'm sure Goodison is a fantastic stadium... to us, it no longer is. We rejected mediocrity.

You seem to think it's only Everton fans who have this unrealistic mindset; you must be kidding. I will name just one of many clubs who you may also consider have ideas bigger than their boots: West Ham Utd.

I'm glad the vast majority of our fans want what our neighbours achieve regularly. Anything less is unthinkable.

You seem to think fans wanting something can't manifest into anything... a groundswell of opinion will change things most definitely. Look again at Liverpool and how their fans rejected their previous owners.

You talk as if it's a deep philosophical question... it isn't; it's football. We want good football and we love trophies even more, not stability for 30 years.

Jim Jennings
63 Posted 24/07/2020 at 13:59:09
Martin,

Do you think NFL is a one-on-one sport? Or not big business?

At what level did you row? Professional? Olympic? If not, then it's a dumb comparison since you were a mere amateur without ambition of success or without fans cheering you on for the glory of silverware.

Ian Horan
64 Posted 24/07/2020 at 14:02:21
Any acknowledgement of Bill Kenwright should be built at the EitC legacy at Goodison Park seeing he is so sentimental about Goodison, he held us in 20 years of purgatory whilst 90% of teams benefited from the Sky gravy train and new owners' opportunities (not investment so he could continue playing with his beloved trainset).
Brian Murray
65 Posted 24/07/2020 at 14:14:36
I remember the New York Mayor getting the Hudson River dyed bottle green on St Paddy's Day. We should do the same to the Mersey as we have the blue Liver Buildings. Small victories, I know, but it really grates some Scandinavians I could mention.
Kieran Kinsella
66 Posted 24/07/2020 at 14:21:21
Martin Mason,

I think you're losing it. Try and remember this sequence of words: person, woman, man, camera, TV...

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

67 Posted 24/07/2020 at 14:31:59
Personally, I'm not surprised that planning permission is likely to be granted soon.

The club has been extremely thorough in its preparation to ensure as smooth a passage as possible for the new stadium application.

I can understand the continued cynicism from some, given the escapades of other Everton stadium projects in the last 20 years, wanting to see the first spade in the ground at Bramley-Moore Dock before believing it.

But metaphorically, very, very clearly Farhad Moshiri and his team have done a great deal of spade work already at no little cost to his purse.

It was one of the first things he mentioned on taking control of Everton. He repeats the importance of Everton locating to a new stadium at every opportunity.

The meticulous public surveys, comparative studies of possible stadium locations, the detailed reports on BMD to ensure a stadium build could comply with all legislation, and much more besides, cannot be denied.

It has also been conducted in a totally transparent way. Quite simply, Farhad Moshiri has to deliver on this project or his ownership of our football club will be a failure and leave us in an extremely precarious position.

Any Evertonian wishing it to fail, just to be proven 'right', needs to think of just how stark things will be for us if this stadium build is not seen through to conclusion.

Kevin Molloy
68 Posted 24/07/2020 at 14:34:28
I don't think it much matters what the mayor says, the planning decision will be a distinct process divorced from any political announcements or other palaver.

I don't think this statement enlightens us at all as to whether permission will be granted The person saying it is 'expected' to be granted has no influence over the planning decision.

Anthony Murphy
69 Posted 24/07/2020 at 14:34:53
Talking of silverware, it would be fitting if we could lift a trophy before we say goodbye to Goodison – great way to sign off and sets the tone for the future at Bramley-Moore Dock.

Brian Wilkinson
70 Posted 24/07/2020 at 14:52:08
Yes, the signing I was hoping for; if this happens, it will be a big step to trying to bridge the gap. Any signings this summer will be an added bonus.
Brian Wilkinson
71 Posted 24/07/2020 at 15:01:04
Should get uncle Bill to tap Paul McCartney up to play a concert to open the new stadium. He has done a concert at Anfield so owes us one.
Brian Wilkinson
72 Posted 24/07/2020 at 15:02:25
Do his Live And Let Die with fireworks blasting above the Mersey, but away from the Liver Buildings.
Brian Wilkinson
73 Posted 24/07/2020 at 15:03:47
With Usmanov sailing up the Mersey to the theme of Live And Let Die.
Derek Knox
74 Posted 24/07/2020 at 15:40:11
Or Brian, From Russia With Love! Back in the USSR! Goldfingers! Hey Big Spender, would equally do.
Tony Everan
75 Posted 24/07/2020 at 15:45:36
We are living in a magical time. This stadium will be our forever home and we will witness it rising from the semi-derelict docklands to become a shining jewel on the Royal Blue Mersey.

Alan McGuffog
76 Posted 24/07/2020 at 16:08:23
Bloody hell, Tony... very Woodstock!
Martin Mason
77 Posted 24/07/2020 at 16:38:28
An iconic riverside site like that, it is just amazing.
Brent Stephens
78 Posted 24/07/2020 at 16:42:28
Jay #67. I might have a bit of work I'll be doing Brazil-related. Looking for a bit of advice. Do you have an email address I can contact you on?
James Flynn
79 Posted 24/07/2020 at 16:59:10
Great and expected news.

I would say that this is behind the fair, "The stadium's completion is expected to kickstart the wider regeneration of the northern "Ten Streets" area across Regent Road from the docks."

The wider regeneration has been ongoing. It's already started. I think Moshiri just got in before the property values along there took off.

Bill Gall
80 Posted 24/07/2020 at 17:20:50
Barry,

As has been stated, the design of any building on the dock area was strictly governed under the Unesco Heritage Site regulations.

I understand we all have our own opinions, but replacing a stadium that was built in 1892 and by the time a new stadium is built it will be about 130 years old, any modern designed stadium will be a huge beneficial upgrade.

Bramley-Moore Dock will be the most modern stadium in the Premier League with one of the most spectacular designs. Definitely on my bucket list if I last that long, as my start of supporting Everton began in 1952 when, as a schoolboy, I played on Goodison Park and changed in the home dressing room.

Barry Rathbone
81 Posted 24/07/2020 at 18:42:12
Bill @80,

I hope you are right but I am more of a facts man these days and clubs building new stadiums have a horrendous record of initial and some long-term decline with relegation and administration figuring hugely. Best not to do the analysis actually – it is terrifying!!!

On the design, yes, it is subjective but imo this will age as well as 1960s high rise flats. Instead of majesty, we have a galvanised garden incinerator turned on its side and flattened.

Martin Mason
82 Posted 24/07/2020 at 18:44:59
We're going to be different, Barry; this is an amazing statement by the club. The key thing though: Does the new ground mean less on decent players? I don't think so. I'm proud to be part of this movement for the club.
Barry Rathbone
83 Posted 24/07/2020 at 18:57:03
Martin @82,

I endorse your positivity but this is modern Everton – a bastion of innovation and courage when the chips are down it is not.

The only predictable thing about this club is, when expectations rise, it collapses like a deck of cards. The way to stay positive is not check the facts, as I said – terrifying.

Rob Halligan
84 Posted 24/07/2020 at 19:01:55
Booked on a 10-night cruise sailing out of Liverpool next July, so naturally sailing back into Liverpool up the Mersey. Should be able to see the early building work on our return, and point out to any RS that's where the best stadium in England will be located, full of the best supporters on this planet!!
Billy Roberts
85 Posted 24/07/2020 at 19:45:07
Martin @82 – aren't you so glad the fans didn't accept Destination Kirkby etc?

You know... mediocrity.

Brent Stephens
86 Posted 24/07/2020 at 19:46:53
Rob, I envy you on that cruise. Smuggle me on?

Watched a programme on Liverpool last night. It showed the old liners and the latest big liners. As a teenager I had an invite to look round the Empress of Canada (I think it was). That was impressive so god knows what the latest ones are like. Monsters.

Gavin Johnson
87 Posted 24/07/2020 at 19:50:50
While it will be sad to leave Goodison Park it will be a great day getting the green light to build this elite stadium. I'm also going to really enjoy laughing in the face of some of the RS naysayers who are convinced that it won't go ahead.
Martin Mason
88 Posted 24/07/2020 at 19:52:18
Billy, the fans voted for Destination Kirkby and accepted it in a democratic vote. If you don't know that, then how can you understand the myth of Everton mediocrity? The planning committee stopped it. Back of the class mate, sorry.

Btw, what do you do to not accept our mythical mediocrity?

Rob Halligan
89 Posted 24/07/2020 at 19:55:52
Brent, I saw that programme, "The Mersey Then and Now". I'm sure one of the ex-dockers was standing in Bramley-Moore Dock – wasn't the water tower in the background? Anyway mate, nearer the departure date, I'll let you know the exact date we sail and you can hide in one of the lifeboats.
Martin Mason
90 Posted 24/07/2020 at 19:58:17
Barry @83,

Can you please explain what you mean in clear English with examples so I can respond? Please take care with what you think are facts – you can't invent them or believe that they correspond to your opinions.

Billy Roberts
91 Posted 24/07/2020 at 20:07:36
Martin @88,

Oh how I wish there was a myth of mediocrity. The last 30+ years tells me differently, I'm afraid.

Destination Kirkby was the only offer on the table but I've yet to meet one Evertonian who supported it? I suppose KEITC was just another load of Evertonians bitching about unrealistic aspirations?

It's nice of you to respond to me so why don't you come to the back of the class and answer the questions I asked you at #62? Oh come on... did you not notice that post?

C'mon, teacher's pet... come to the back of the class and give us your answers? And thank god the planning committee rejected this horrendous idea? Maybe they thought it was... mediocre. Did you support it by the way?

Brent Stephens
92 Posted 24/07/2020 at 20:07:48
Rob, I thought likewise that it might have been the tower by Bramley-Moore Dock.

I could hide in one of your suitcases, I'm small enough.

Martin Mason
93 Posted 24/07/2020 at 20:13:23
Billy @91,

You didn't ask me a question, you sprayed a load of waffle at me and that's why you got no answer.

The rejection was nothing to do with mediocrity – it was rejected because it was determined that sufficient retail capacity was available in Kirkby without the stadium complex.

Did I support it? I had no opinion, the club as a PLC decides what is best for it within the law and with the support of the majority of the fans. As a non-shareholding fan, I have no say.

Billy Roberts
94 Posted 24/07/2020 at 20:39:33
Martin @93,

So it was actually worse than mediocre, it was a non-starter. If Everton FC had not had mediocre aspirations at the time, they would have realised that, instead of trying to sell a complete turkey.

You said that only football fans had these crazy ideas of trophies. I gave you many examples.

You said that only Evertonians had these unrealistic aspirations... I gave you an example.

You suggested with a couple of posters that just disagreeing with the club's policy or ambitions wasn't enough and couldn't bring about any change?

You failed quite cowardly to answer any of my "waffle" so get to the back of the class, Mr Mediocre, I'm waiting for your answers.

Martin Mason
95 Posted 24/07/2020 at 20:46:24
Billy, you are a mediocre Everton fan.
Jay Harris
96 Posted 24/07/2020 at 20:46:28
Martin,

You know as well as the rest of us Destination Kirkby was sold as a pack of lies.

Example "Goodison will fail its next safety inspection" – quote by one "William Kenwright".

DK will have "state-of-the-art transport infrastructure" – Really!!

DK "will effectively be a free stadium paid for by Tesco" – a totally perplexed Tesco representative stated that was a total fabrication.

Billy Roberts
97 Posted 24/07/2020 at 20:53:17
Martin @95,

Oof, it's like getting mauled by a dead lamb, as someone you know once said.

Barry Rathbone
98 Posted 24/07/2020 at 21:52:03
Martin @90,

Sorry, I can't be bothered. No idea why you are so riled, quite emotional in fact.

Justin Doone
99 Posted 25/07/2020 at 00:17:58
In time for the 2024-25 season, let's hope we have a great team to match.
John Atkins
100 Posted 25/07/2020 at 00:58:51
Several weeks ago, I was convinced Covid-19 would scupper our plans for a new stadium due to a huge economic downturn. However, I've now got a strange feeling that this awful period will actually help us move forward and the project will actually happen.

There seems to be a keen proactiveness by the government (national and local) in wanting developments to kick-start a recovery and this is perfect for a huge economic benefit to the city... This really could be our time

I'm convinced that, without Covid-19, that shower across the park would have done all they could to stop us developing. I really do believe the stadium will happen, now that any red tape will be easier to cut.

Christine Foster
101 Posted 25/07/2020 at 05:19:47
Martin,

Whether you agree or not is immaterial. Everton Football Club – indeed, every professional football club – are not "just" a business, they are part of a community with a social responsibility too; they create hope and dreams and a sense of belonging.

Look at the RS fans over the past month, they have a belonging to a club that is working in line with its aspirations. Over the past 25 years, apart from "The People's Club," the fans have had nothing to believe in.

You speak of Limited Company directors making a profit – no problem with that whatsoever, but look at exactly who made profit out of the club. They looked to one expectation of lining their pockets, which they did, handsomely at the expense of aspiration. They engineered mediocrity through lack of investment, did they not?

As a fan you have a choice to accept it too; some do, some don't. Destination Kirkby was a case in point, you blithely blame the planning committee for its failure, but the reason it failed was because it was built on lies and deceit, which was the finding of the committee. As for a democratic vote in favour of it, the vote was based on promises that were known untruths.

What the fans did in persuing the club and its directors pressured them to change. In doing so, they exerted their voice in not accepting mediocrity. But if I remember correctly, you have always been on the side of Kenwright and Co in relation to his dealing, handling of Destination Kirkby etc.

But I digress; if we are to accept your view that we have no power or influence on the club, then what is the point of a community-based club?

Liam Reilly
102 Posted 25/07/2020 at 05:27:00
Great news on the Stadium, but I'd be very interested to see if the number of proposed seats is directly impacted by Covid-19.

If social distancing is the new normal, then there won't be 50,000 seats within the same space; or at the very least, there will have to be some kind of flexibility.

Or do investors just bet on it not being here in 3 years?

Strange times.

Brian Williams
103 Posted 25/07/2020 at 07:53:22
Liam, if social distancing is the "new normal" in 2023 then we're all fucked!
The stadium'll be built with the same proposed 52,888 capacity.
Martin Mason
104 Posted 25/07/2020 at 09:03:18
Everything that has happened to Everton FC before this current regeneration is irrelevant, including Destination Kirkby. It has no significance compared to the incredible things that are happening now.

The only negative thing and one that can't be solved quickly is squad weakness resulting from bad player purchases but that will be sorted out. A new riverside stadium? Absolutely amazing.

Steve Brown
105 Posted 25/07/2020 at 09:10:58
Martin @ 104, it isn't irrelevant to those who experienced it. And the fact that the guy responsible is still hanging around like a bad smell infuriates many supporters.
Mike Allison
106 Posted 25/07/2020 at 09:27:37
Steve, those supporters would just find something else to be infuriated by if he wasn't around. Kenwright is just a convenient target for some people's need to direct anger and frustration at something tangible.
Martin Mason
107 Posted 25/07/2020 at 09:31:40
Steve, how does Destination Kirkby affect the current development? What do you think of the concept that the guy responsible for Destination Kirkby (and it had its merits) is also responsible for the amazing things that are happening now? Credit where it's due surely?

Anyway, this isn't a Kenwright bashing Destination Kirkby thread, it is about what will be an amazing event in the club's history. We are going places even when that means carrying along a very small minority of irrationally negative fans who can't see past their noses to the future – only to imagined past wrongs that we should atone for forever. Not for me thanks, this is an amazing time.

Ken Kneale
108 Posted 25/07/2020 at 10:09:37
Martin, sadly it is not irrelevant – it has got us into the spiral of decline we are in in terms of football standing... and those that do not choose to learn from history tend to repeat the mistakes – that is certainly a worry with Everton FC.
Dave Abrahams
109 Posted 25/07/2020 at 10:12:34
Christine (101), good post, as usual.

Destination Kirkby was never going to happen, Evertonians fought it every step of the way because they knew it was going to put Everton back, way back to where they would never recover and be a top club again. An old lady, Everton fan, got on Radio Merseyside and explained point by point why the stadium would never be built there – this was 18 months before Everton lost the case.

After the case was lost, Kenwright issued a statement which included him saying he was glad that Everton were not going to Kirkby!!!

Kenwright is not a convenient target, he is a target because of the way he has misused his position of chairman over many issues, mostly for his own benefit.

Steve Brown
110 Posted 25/07/2020 at 10:22:25
Mike/ Martin, whether you agree with them or not, many Everton fans hold Kenwright primarily responsible for the failure of the past 30 years.

I am also very excited about the new stadium as it will be transformational for the club and the city – also, it is particularly enjoyable to see the unease it causes to the kopites. But is optimistic to assume that that fans will just forget and move on with a shrug and a smile.

Mike Allison
111 Posted 25/07/2020 at 10:24:25
I can't help thinking that the last 30 years might be a little bit more complex than one bloke.
Steve Brown
112 Posted 25/07/2020 at 10:28:30
Dave @ 109, quite correct.

Kenwright did not invest one penny of his own money into Everton but received £22.75 million when he sold his stake to Moshiri. Fair play to him I suppose.

But of course, to charecterise it as all for the love of the club is laughable.

Steve Brown
113 Posted 25/07/2020 at 10:31:08
Mike @ 111, that is probably true. But if you want to understand why any business is poorly run then look at the board. They set the strategy, the operating norms and the culture.
Martin Mason
114 Posted 25/07/2020 at 10:38:13
Steve @110,

An alternative view is that the last 30 years weren't a failure at all. For most of that time, we were trading while insolvent and the only measurement for success was continuing to survive as a club; that we survived at the top level was in itself a success.

There was zero chance that we could have had any success during that period because we did not have the resources to be successful. To blame this on one bogey man is just totally irrational.

We must also thank the guy for getting Moshiri on board, making the new stadium happen, and hiring of one of the game's top managers... but, for a small minority, Kenwright can have credit for nothing. He made 㿂M? I don't know but good luck to him, some class warriors would think this a sin but it shows how smart he is.

Ken @108, Destination Kirby was certainly not the event that caused decline at Everton, that is myth, sorry.

Dave Abrahams
115 Posted 25/07/2020 at 10:48:54
Steve (112),

Kenwright has sold two lots of shares to Mr Moshiri so he has made close to 㿙M out of Everton while Mr Moshiri was clearing all the debts acquired while the 'smart' Kenwright, according to Martin Mason, was chairman.

Anthony Murphy
116 Posted 25/07/2020 at 10:59:31
Re Destination Kirkby, we dodged a bullet no doubt, but I seem to remember the majority of STH voted for the move?
Tony Abrahams
117 Posted 25/07/2020 at 11:03:31
Brian @41, I definitely know it wasn't Evertonians. I also definitely think Evertonians would have stopped the fireworks getting fired at the Liver Building if we were celebrating anything.

But the Dixie statue and Rupert's Tower on Netherfield Road seem like random acts perpetrated by snides, and the reply from one of Bill Shankey's family definitely had too much class for whoever decided to scorch Dixie.

Four dead outside the Shankly hotel, is what my red mate texted me last night, the same fella told me only one can hit Manchester City's coach!

You don't have to tell me about Liverpudlians, mate, but it won't be long before the Merseyside derby is witnessing scenes like what happened in town last night, especially whilst little snides continue to do snide things.

Pete Hughes
118 Posted 25/07/2020 at 11:30:59
The more I read Martin Mason's posts, the more I am convinced he is a club plant!
Tony Hill
119 Posted 25/07/2020 at 11:35:05
I think we've got to stop gnawing away at ourselves. The new stadium – which, apart from anything else, should have a big weight of political backing after Covid-19 – is going to be part of the jolt we need.

We've made some very bad mistakes, but let's try and pull ourselves up now. I thought Ancelotti's calm words about next season were also promising. Sometimes things just come together for no apparent reason.

We've been waiting a long time, certainly, but we have to let go of old hurts and disappointments before we can be cured.

Darren Hind
120 Posted 25/07/2020 at 12:10:09
I've met a couple of Evertonians who are sceptical as to whether this stadium is going ahead. Even met a couple who are convinced it won't... but I don't think I have come across a single blue "wishing it to fail, just to be proved right".

Must be "Them" again.

Eric Myles
121 Posted 25/07/2020 at 14:12:02
"What do you think of the concept that the guy responsible for Destination Kirkby (and it had its merits) is also responsible for the amazing things that are happening now?"

I think that's complete bullshit, that's what I think. Kenwright has nothing to do with Moshiri building the Club a new stadium except for some reflected glory if we're unfortunate enough that he's still around at that time.

Eric Myles
122 Posted 25/07/2020 at 14:17:20
"We must also thank the guy for getting Moshiri on board, making the new stadium happen and hiring of one of the games top managers"

More Martian nonesense. Kenwright had nothing to do with any of those events.

Paul Hewitt
124 Posted 25/07/2020 at 16:37:43
Just to clear something up. Moshiri isn't putting his own money into Everton. He simple underwrites any money spent. He can call the debt in at any time. Last I saw, we owed Moshiri close to 𧷤 million.
Alan J Thompson
125 Posted 25/07/2020 at 16:50:28
Did the people next door have to protect any listed structures?
Brian Williams
126 Posted 25/07/2020 at 16:50:37
Eric #122,

I think you'll find Kenwright was responsible for bringing Moshiri onboard.

Mike Gaynes
127 Posted 25/07/2020 at 16:50:43
"Last I saw, we owed Moshiri close to 𧷤 million."

Paul... who's "we"?

Brian Williams
128 Posted 25/07/2020 at 16:56:10
Mike, it's quite normal for Evertonians – certainly the Brit ones – to refer to the club as "we."
Martin Mason
129 Posted 25/07/2020 at 17:11:27
Eric @122, as ex-owner and long-time CEO, he was responsible for all of those things. You are in denial.
Martin Mason
130 Posted 25/07/2020 at 17:16:41
Pete @118, another deluded one. Sorry although you do give me a laugh.
Patrick McFarlane
131 Posted 25/07/2020 at 17:19:18
Martin #129,

Bill Kenwright was Everton's long-time CEO??? I had my suspicions that Suntan Bob et al were merely puppets for the grandmaster but nice to see it confirmed in writing.

We can't blame Mr Kenwright for any of the issues that have beset the club during his period of power, but we can praise him for all of the 'successes'...???

Sounds a bit too much like North Korean type worship of the leader to me – we truly are The People's Club.

Martin Mason
132 Posted 25/07/2020 at 17:47:01
Patrick, the buck stops with him on everything but remember that many of the "issues" were pure EFC myths.

He ran the club in survival mode when we were in grave danger of being wound up; if he did some dodgy deals, then that is great. We just have to get out of this ridiculous mentality that he was the reason we had no success for 30 years, it is absolute nonsense.

He is probably past his sell-by date now but who can say? He may be doing a very good job; I suspect he is.

Paul Tran
133 Posted 25/07/2020 at 18:22:37
The stadium's going to be built, I just hope the world is healthy enough for us to be able to fill it by then!

People often look for turning points and the stadium is certainly being seen as one. For me, a good turning point right now would be the club being run like an aspiring business that demands excellence at every level. I'd certainly like to see the CEO talking about how we're going to change as a football team and business, rather than the (laudable) community/charity work.

When the team is successful and the club is profitable, we'll be able to do much more for the community. I wish we'd get the priorities in the right order.

Ken Kneale
134 Posted 25/07/2020 at 18:29:36
Martin – running in 'survivial' mode as you suggest for that length of time sounds like mismanagement. His 24 hours a day searching for investment took decades – it is clear he wanted someone who would still let him run the trainset.

No wonder we are at the lowest point in Everton FC history in terms of football standing. Your claims to the contrary are simply not credible and have a have little basis in fact.

Nicholas Ryan
136 Posted 25/07/2020 at 18:59:10
At last, the Arteta money being spent!!
Jay Harris
137 Posted 25/07/2020 at 19:23:38
Martin,

That is another Kenwright myth that he "saved us from being wound up".

The truth, if you look at the accounts, is that he inherited a net asset position (that is NOT in danger of being wound up) and – within 2 years of his True Blue Holdings takeover – had turned that into a net liability position.

Far from saving us, he mortgaged Goodison Park, sold off Bellefield and Old Roan training facilities, sold Rooney for 㿅M (a gift on the never-never) and any other assets he could find while raising unaccounted for "Other Costs" from ٟM a year to over 㿀M a year – then saying it was for lawnmowers for Finch Farm.

Another myth I would like to put to bed is that he DID NOT remortgage his house as he claimed at the time and has never put 1 penny of his own money into EFC – and still hasn't, despite making a fortune out of mugging Moshiri.

Kenwright DID NOT save EFC. He is responsible for its demise.

Jay Harris
138 Posted 25/07/2020 at 19:30:43
Paul #124.

That is so untrue. Moshiri cleared our debts that were costing up to 㾶M a year in interest and put money into player acquisition funds totalling around 𧸖M of his own money, interest free — something Kenwright hasn't offered to do despite making around 㿔M from shares he never paid for.

Paul Hewitt
139 Posted 25/07/2020 at 19:59:31
Jay @138. It's not untrue. Moshiri has put money in interest-free, unlike a bank. But we (Everton) still owe Moshiri the money back.
Ken Kneale
140 Posted 25/07/2020 at 21:38:05
Paul H – Maybe it is the way he is allowing nonentities and self-servers to spend the money then.

John Moores also lent money but it went on Roy Vernon, Alex Young, Tony Kay and Gordon West for instance, along with Bellfield redevelopment.

I don't see the spending spree of the last five years quite hitting the same mark. Moshiri needs to get some acumen and ability into the running of the club – and fast, as Paul Tran points out.

Andy Crooks
141 Posted 25/07/2020 at 22:24:09
Martin, I posted fairly recently that I was agreeing with a lot of the things you were posting. Also, I share your enjoyment of what will be something special for our club. I have always asked too, as you now do, how one who does not accept mediocrity displays this non acceptance. We are stuck with it, take it or leave it.

However, the disagreements we had over many years before you took a break from the site always came back to the same thing: emotional investment. You either do not get, or do, but dismiss this notion. I want Everton to win stuff. Why? Here's why:

The players and everyone working for our club and who has invested in our club want this.

I have friends with whom my only common link is Everton. When we celebrated a win together, it was not just because we had played nice football. It was because we looked like we might be building a side capable of winning a trophy and banking a memory to cherish for ever.

I don't live in Liverpool but Everton winning silverware would give me some bloody fine pub moments. I guess if I lived in the city, I could multiply that by ten.

It is for me, Martin, about aspiration, exhilaration and communal emotion. I know how illogical this is but the hope doesn't kill me, it makes my heart race.


Patrick Fennell
142 Posted 25/07/2020 at 22:48:42
Well... looks like I'm going to have to plan a trip to England in the next few years to see a match in Goodison before it's too late.
Martin Mason
143 Posted 26/07/2020 at 08:24:25
Andy @141, I share all of those feelings and aspirations and have done since first watching the team 60+years ago and the ultimate aspiration is to see us win something. The only difference between us perhaps is that I have many other measures of the club being successful in the knowledge that at times, such as now, we are just not in a position to win trophies. That doesn't mean that you are a pot hunter or that I accept mediocrity.

Over the years the importance of trophies has diminished a lot with the FA Cup and League Cup not being financially worth the effort for sides like Everton as it impairs doing well in the Premier League. Qualifying for Europe is real success but mainly for me it is for the team to improve and start to compete at the top level and give us the respect that the fans deserve.

Do I demand the ultimate success? Is demanding ever reasonable or even expecting it given that we are investing in a new ground too? Success will be a great performance this afternoon and hope for next season.

Best Wishes

Darren Hind
144 Posted 26/07/2020 at 13:46:29
Most people I know eat sleep and drink this club. They are fanatics who believe everything is possible and everything is achievable. To a man, they all believe we belong at the top. Illogical? maybe.

I suspect an enthusiast pursuing a hobby would find our current situation far easier to accept and would have tremendous difficulty trying to understand the desire which burns so strongly within the fanatic.

I guess everyone is entitled to support the club in whatever way they choose.

Heartbreak and disappointment are familiar emotions for those who want and expect our club to reach for the stars. The guy who is happy for his club to reach for the ceiling will undoubtedly find contentment far easier to come by.

Those who invest heart and soul will inevitably suffer more than their pragmatic counterparts. Especially when it's going completely Pete Tong. However, when their time does come, they will experience highs which are unattainable to the contented and easily pleased.

Martin Mason
145 Posted 26/07/2020 at 14:23:29
Darren, I agree entirely with those thoughts except the last sentence. I disagree that there are any Everton fans who are contented or easily pleased.

Everybody, especially those grounded in reality, want better. My point is that only the irrational demand or expect. Fanatics are irrational. Here's to this afternoon and a great performance.

Eric Myles
146 Posted 26/07/2020 at 14:47:29
Brian #126, what do you think is more likely:

The guy who found a buyer for the club in a bedsit in Salford brought Moshiri onboard?

Or

The guy that lent money to Kenwright and parks his yacht next door to Moshiri's in Monaco brought him onboard???

Paul Birmingham
147 Posted 26/07/2020 at 14:49:56
Inspiring, deep thoughts and feedback from all on this thread. Let's hope today is the end of the beginning and with a fine performance see off Bournemouth, and rebuild in mind, spirit, and players.

The Soul of Evertonians is immortal, better times will come.

Jonathan Tasker
148 Posted 26/07/2020 at 15:24:01
Ray @22,

I'm not.

Martin Mason
149 Posted 26/07/2020 at 15:39:44
Eric, the owner has to be given all credit. Are you incapable of doing this? I think so. You buy into the Buyer in a Salford bedsit myth so your credibility is suspect?
Eric Myles
150 Posted 27/07/2020 at 00:21:46
Martin, the owner delivering Bramley-Moore Dock stadium and who hired Ancelloti is Moshiri, so you are wrong to give Bill any credit for that.

As for the Salford bedsit myth, I know it was actually a 1 bedroom flat in Hong Kong.

Don Alexander
151 Posted 27/07/2020 at 00:51:29
The Bournemouth fiasco performance mirrors the King's Dock fiasco, and 'most everything in between including, to me, the likelihood of a much reduced Bramley-Moore Dock stadium.

Only one person is still at the heart of our club throughout that time, wholly unaccountable for our demise to mid-table "achievement" under his various staff appointees and acquisition of possibly the most football-naive owner in Premier League history.

Why does next season totally fail to excite me, I wonder?

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