Government wants more time to review Bramley-Moore Dock Stadium

The Government have been granted more time to make a decision so it will now be after tomorrow’s deadline before we get a yes or no.

From the red rag:

"The government has asked for more time to consider Everton's planning application for a new stadium at Bramley-Moore dock - with the anticipated 21-day scrutiny period since Liverpool City council's approval of the plans passing tomorrow.

"Neither the City Council nor Everton have been surprised by the request, given the scale and complexity of the project.

"And neither party is concerned by the instruction.

"A spokesperson for Liverpool City Council said: “Liverpool City Council has been informed by the Department of Housing, Communities and Local Government that the Secretary of State has requested more time to consider the resolution to approve Everton Football Club’s planning application to build a new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock. This instruction has been accepted in accordance with national planning law.

"The request is standard practice for a project of this size and falls under Article 31 of the Town and Country Planning (Development Management Procedure) (England) Order 2015. The Echo understands the council was expecting such a request.

"There is no guidance on how much longer central government intend to scrutinise the plans but they are mindful of Everton's ambitions to have the stadium ready for the 2024/25 season".

How much time though? A week? A month? A year? Indefinitely? This will help regenerate a large part of the city and they need more time?

Don't worry folks, this is with Honest Bob Jenrick. Nothing suss at all.

Haha called this a month ago. Joke.

Graeme, most people called this a month ago.

We need a quick whip round for Tory Party funds.

All together now: 1-2-3 ‘Everton that’.

Seriously though, 2020 and 2021 is showing up just how corrupt the governing infrastructure is from council to parliament. There’s greasing the wheel and then there’s out right bribery.

Unsworths fault.

Davies should have done better

DCL will only appear there if we’re in the championship

Kenwright has spent the money on his mortgage

It will never happen.

Now come on,lads.
The Minister has obviously had to deal with this pandemic, get his vaccinations, feel crap for a day or two and then worry about clots. No, not the people working in his department and where is the PPE coming from?
Anyone might think there's no foundation to this delay...well, no foundations just yet. I mean, it's not as though this government has had delays before. oh, hang on.

If the government are asking for more time, can we refuse their helpful request?

How about they thank Everton and all involved in this brilliant project and agree to share some of the costs or at least loan us the funds at an agreeably low rate?

Could this possibly be to buy a little extra time for government to work out how official's, their families, friends and associates can make money from it by setting up companies that are imperative to oversee that the new "freeports" aka FEEports are correctly managed?

Still on track, another 3.5 years.

I expect syphoning off public money takes up a lot of time for the tory fuckwads, so giving them some more time to decide makes sense.

Just tell them to do one and go ahead and start building. I doubt there's ever been a Tory minister stepped foot in Liverpool since Michael Heseltine in the '80s, who to be fair, has been the only Tory minister who cared about the city.

Nothing to get in a froth about. Such a request is a normal occurrence from a Secretary of State if it is a complex application and the delay has no effect on the final decision. The SoS also does not have to say how long he will take to decide on the call in, but at least the need for a quick decision has been recognised. So it's still wait and see which is frustrating, but given the UNESCO status of the dock a quick decision was never on the cards. Balance of benefits versus impacts is in our favour so I'm hopeful of no call in. Always better to travel hopefully!

Build it and they will come. I agree with Rob, tell the tories to piss off and declare an independent scouse republic!! Build baby, build.

I’m sure there will be “Plenty of Experts” on here who can answer me this question, but what exactly has this Robert Jenrick been doing for the last three weeks? Has the application just been laying on his desk while he swanned off to his property he owns in Hertfordshire, breaking COVID rules in the process (Again) to suddenly remember about the application?

Standard planning stuff that always seems to just crawl along. Or, alternatively, a huge conspiracy between Crooked Fat Joe, BoysPen Bullshit Bill, and That Tory Bastard Scum Down South to fleece us.

It's whatever you want it to be really. Personally, I'll probably go for the standard planning stuff.

Hi Rob. The Government are currently changing the planning system, changing planning policies and issuing lots of new guidance plus the dozens of call in referrals that arrive every week. His civil servants take care of all this and, with the Tory cuts, there aren't many of those left, so everything is taking even longer than normal.

Government always tells councils to hurry up, but does its own work at a snail's pace. You don't think ministers do any actual work do you? Money for old rope, and planning is a cushy number compared to other ministerial jobs.

Kevin, you forgot to blame Pickford.

So normalized now are government machinations, who could judge what is the position. Could be a simple backlog, time needed to gather more information etc. Hell, they might even be refining and firming up the evidence to support the positive decision they've already made.

Pete # 18. Cheers Pete. Naturally I didn't expect Jenrick to be doing all the donkey work, he probably doesn't know his arse from his elbow. It was more what has been going on in the three weeks by all those who work for him?

Jenrick is just waiting for a social-distancing laws to relax so he can attend a private dinner and receive some brown envelopes. Allegedly.

Rob #20 our new stadium has just joined the massive backlog of stuff they already had. They're probably working on stuff they got a year ago! Only the simple stuff ever gets a quick decision.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Robert Jenrick, wasn't he during the first serious lockdown, after telling everyone to ' stay at home ' caught doing something like a 340 mile round trip from London to Shrewsbury?

He said his elderly parents were ill and he had to take groceries to them. What? It was of course all swept under the carpet, with a Ministerial/Old Boys nod and a smack with a feather duster on the back of the legs.

Synonymously around the time that Dominic Cummings made the now famous sojourn to Barnard Castle, incurring an Optician's visit before returning to the well deserved flak it merited at the time.

Again, with reference to the aforementioned Robert Jenrick, again involved in a Planning Application U Turn, in favour of one of his Donors or Personal Private Investments to have Millionaire's Luxury Homes built, in a scheme that had been designated/earmarked for Affordable Homes in the London Area? So, we are expected or trust him to make a decision?

Best of luck on that one. One Rule for them, another for us Orcs and Trolls!

The cynic in me imagines that the final go ahead will fit neatly in line with the May elections - & dockside photo opportunities to match!

Standard Government process and bureaucracy. It has to go through the process and the civil service doesn't move quickly.

It's happening, we just have to go through the teeth pulling process first.

I'm also confident about this. Due process being seen to operate for a major development. It's the waiting that kills you, though.

I'm also confident about this. Due process being seen to operate for a major development. It's the waiting that kills you, though.

Oops!

Now this decision has been made by the government, a decision I suspect fully anticipated by Moshiri and the board I feel the stakes will now be raised. Moshiri, Usmanov and co are very well versed in government 'ways' and will now be on the front foot to get the application moving quickly in the right direction. There is too much at stake, both M and U are in this for the rewards of opening up the northern docks, many millions if not billions are the reward, steel, communications construction etc. Johnson has in a way already ' shot himself in the foot' by publicly stating that Britain will build, build build out of the lockdown/ recession. I'm sure a few delicate phone calls / meetings will be taking place in the coming days and weeks with the grown ups in government to sort the problem out. Jenrick and the planning department are doing what is expected but money, job creation, redevelopment of a waste land and further development of the northern docks will see BMD approved. Imagine the flack and ridicule if Johnson and his government turn down the opportunity to create jobs and redevlop a much needed part of the North West also the expansion of the Freeport concessions will also be s huge factor.

Gerard #29 " Imagine the flack and ridicule if Johnson and his government turn down the opportunity to create jobs and redevlop a much needed part of the North West."

Approval possibly timed to give maximum positive impact for the government in the May local elections?

Whilst Moshiri has previously shown naivety in his footballing decisions and in particular managerial appointments, I do not doubt his ability in business operations.

I'd be amazed if he had gone this far with an understanding it could fall through. I think he would have pulled the plug long ago if that were the case.

I don’t see any problem with this at all.
After few weeks delay it will approved.

I agree Danny. Moshiri might be a neophyte when it comes to football but he will have definitely worked out, on his abacus, how much of a killing he can make by investing early, and investing big.

If the Freeport, the skyscrapers (Manhattan on the Mersey), the cruise ships, the clubs, shopping and cultural centres start to be built, Moshiri’s investments could be worth billions!!

Liverpool (as a city) could bury Manchester once and for all, and even compete with London as an attractive destination for the best players in the world.

The world is our oyster. We just need this Tory sod to get his finger out of his arse.

Does this mean it’s been called in ?

Paul, I think that's a yes

Link

I suspect the reason for more time being required is that Jenrick is weighing up the pros and cons of calling the application in.It will be sat with some official to compile a report with recommendations.
The problem with the application has always been is it sits in the buffer zone of a World Heritage Site. There is undoubtedly an argument to make that economic benefit outweighs any harm and one of course the Council has supported.
However because that argument is there to be made to the contrary even if the application does not get called in, it could still be challenged in the Courts and UNESCO have deep pockets.

Brent

That’s a no. They are still considering wether to call it in

Thanks, Graham.

Paul #34 No its not called in. Just the usual Government delay in making a big decision. Some poor sod has got to read 1,200 pages of documentation and then write a long report which the minister will read at his leisure. I think the May election thing is a good shout. Good way to big themselves up and get Northern votes, they hope.

Brent, I can’t see BMD being mentioned on that link.

Derek # 23

No wrongdoing was intended in any of those unfortunate incidents. "Honest" Robert Jenrick is as straight as they come (by Conservative Party standards).

What intrigues me is the statement that he, and his department, 'requested' more time. Does this mean Everton or LCC could have turned down the request?

Paul #34 and Brent #35

It hasn't been called in. No decision has been made. It's simply a request for more time to examine what is a huge project of over 200 pages.

Colin, the link was just to point to the decision-making process. As Graham implies, this is where we might go after Jenrick has given it some thought.

Understood, Brent.

This is just an expected extension on the statute minimum time planning applications have to be considered by.

It is a totally normal practise - certainly in a project as large and as sensitive as BMD (1200 pages of detailed submission to consider, opposed by World Heritage).

Being called in is another animal altogether and would mitigate considerable delay or even refusal, as those who remember Everton's Kirkby stadium proposal will recall.

In other news - and it's not great news for Saturday - Jordan Pickford has been ruled out for the cup quarter final v City with an abdominal muscle injury.

Pickford Out v City

Olsen still injured? Could we be relying on Virginia?

There is no problem in this delay, as what is being requested is for a building permit for a football stadium. Why the stadium design may be excepted, the government will want to know how it affects the surrounding areas and what the finances for any regeneration of the area,s are available. This is the part why Liverpool City Council had to pass the project as most probably they may be responsible for some of the cost with a government assistant program.

Jay, # 44. I've been told Olsen is back in training, so hopefully will be ok for Saturday. The club website lists his injury as "Unknown", that's what made me think was he absent from the Burnley game due to his house being burgled? Talking of the cup game, just watching man city in the CL game. Whilst I have no problems with them winning the competition, I hope half their team get crocked tonight. 🙏🙏🙏

Update.......and Kevin De Bruyne scores a screamer!!

That's good news on Olsen Rob.

I do think the young keeper done well against Burnley so given he was thrown in at the deep end so to speak.

Reassuring to hear Olsen is back in training Rob.

As for this 'Whilst I have no problems with them winning the competition, I hope half their team get crocked tonight'.

Like to double up on the number of injuries Rob?

City's BENCH tonight:

Aké, Sterling, Gabriel Jesus, Agüero, Zinchenko, Steffen, Laporte, Torres, Mendy, Fernandinho, Carson, García.

Best not put up our bench by comparison in the last 3-4 games.

Thumping goal by KdB. Lovely no look pass by Foden in setting up Gundogan for the 2nd.

There for the taking on Saturday. (Cough!).

Thanks guys, I can see the Cumbrian coal mine and other much smaller projects than ours have been called in, which is slightly concerning, but fingers crossed.

FFS Jay, that bench alone could probably win the Champions league! 😬😬

Just a thought, but had the city of Liverpool won the bid to hold the commonwealth games, where would a new stadium have been built, and if it was still to be at BMD, would the government have been so slow to approve it, would they have had any intention of "Calling it in", or am I totally barking up the wrong tree and misunderstanding this whole thing?

Rob 51

It’s all about the detail in any planning application and how it fulfils planning guidelines. As BMD is in the buffer zone it had extra hurdles to get over to get permission. Therefore a delay is not surprising once the initial permission has been granted. That doesn’t necessarily mean it will get called in and in fact a detailed analysis at this stage may be helpful should the application get challenged in the Supreme Court which is not an unfeasible outcome.
Personally I don’t see a scenario where there isn’t either a calling in or further legal challenge despite the optimism of many posters.

No, you have a point Rob. In that scenario it becomes a top down UK Government initiative, so it is almost imposed on the local Government.

As it stands, even though this Government I suspect is supportive given it's "levelling up" ticket, we have to go through the process of local Government justifying to central Government why it's a good idea.

Jay (BRZ), if we pretend we are Everton 1987 and they are City 1987, they are there for the taking!!

It is unlikely that a decision will be made before the 6th May due to the local elections for councillors and the elected Mayor. It may be seen as information influencing the elections so 'purdah' is likely to apply for the period 6 weeks before the elections (from 25 March).

Mike (54) The convention in respect of national civil service activities is for a three week purdah ahead of local elections. There is potentially a window between Easter and the start of that three week purdah for the Secretary of State to make an announcement.

He must be a red shite supporter or on John Henry’s payroll 🤷🏼‍♂️😡

Nothing to worry about, even the Chairman of the Northern Powerhouse said it was a no brainer to be passed. The Govt will just do things by the book to avoid any backlash from those opposed to the project.

Paul@49

The proposed metallurgical coal mine at Whitehaven has been called in due the Government paying undue attention to a campaign of half truths and outright lies by by environmental activists. The vast majority of local people and Copeland Council desperately want it to go ahead

Historic England and UNESCO appear to be the only serious objectors to BMD and seem certain to be overruled.

John #55.

Hopefully it is that timescale applied in this case even though it is a local scheme with the initial decisions made locally.

Jenrick was just on BBC Breakfast - getting quizzed about the possible delay in vaccine supply and then about the problem of homelessness. Funnily enough, Charlie State didn't ask him about BMD - it's hardly top of the priority list.
As others have said, a report will be in the bowels of his department somewhere and will no doubt emerge just before the the May local elections.

Just a thought but recently Boris was telling us he wanted the uk to go for a World Cup

If this is true then another brand new stadium already built would only strengthen his bid

Jenrick was also just on R4 Today programme talking about the proposed new coal mine off the Cumbria coast.

Paraphrasing only slightly, he said: "Where there are environmental concerns, two valid reasons for going ahead would be:
(i) If the (environmental) concern can be mitigated
(ii) If the economic benefits to the local community outweigh any other concern

If you subsitute Environment for Heritage, then BMD should sail through, except that Jenrick and his mates are at best incompetent and at worst corrupt.

He also said the external inquiry into the Cumbrian mine would not report until the end of this year.

Dave@62. I think the issue with coal mine is more that fact that this has become a little bit of embarrassment with the UK hosting a Global conference on environmental issues later in the year.

So approval will be pushed back into the cupboard until that has gone away.

Our lovely neighbours would’ve found out the names and addresses of the naysayers by now and would’ve knocked on a few doors to encourage them to “reconsider” their opposition to BMD.

Agree Andrew but it was still good to hear Jenrick be so explicit about economic benefit trumping objections given what BMD will do for Liverpool and boost the government's so called Levelling Up agenda. Stop laughing at the back !

Liverpool Chamber of Commerce have now thrown their weight behind the bid;

https://www.insidermedia.com/news/north-west/chamber-urges-jenrick-to-back-everton-fc-stadium

What else does Jenrick need to persuade him of the ‘economic benefits’?

Mike @66.
Maybe an offer from Usmanov to buy a £10k table at the next Tory fundraiser.
It certainly worked for "Dirty Dick" Desmond.

Dave 67, that would probably do it. Mike 66, maybe the ghost of Maggie thatcher whispering in his ear, “remember, these people are our enemies”?

If jenrick not a football lover ( probably rugger ) I bet he thought such a prestigious money spinner like bmd is the new home of Liverpool fc. Lots of noses put out of joint already at the loft conversion over the park already!!

I keep on looking at photos of the new stadium (a beaut) and I keep asking myself, what’s stopping people from jumping into the surrounding water?

Colin (70)

A small fence and common sense. So expect it to happen every match day! :)

Colin #68 - let’s hope Michael Heseltine is whispering in his other ear. He had no doubts that the revitalisation of Liverpool depended upon the revival of the waterfront. This is what he said when he arrived in the 1980s;
“Alone, every night … I would stand with a glass of wine, looking out at the magnificent view over the river, and ask myself what had gone wrong for this great English city. The Mersey, its lifeblood, flowed as majestically as ever down from the hills. Its monumental Georgian and Victorian buildings, created with such pride, still dominated the skyline. The Liver Building itself, the epicentre of a trading system that had reached out to the four corners of the earth, stood defiant and from my perspective very alone…everything had gone wrong.“

I'd say when Everton win the league, those pictures of people diving into the water will just make our new stadium even “more iconic!”

People jumping into the water, or football supporters throwing each other in?

Colin @ 70, people can jump into the water from Otterspool to Bramley-Moore so no need to worry.

A piece doing the rounds today saying the £30 Million offer for naming rights from Uncle Usmanov will rise to £200 Million, over a 10-year period, should we be granted the stadium.

Make no mistake, if not for FFP, Usmanov would be our owner by now; keeping outside the club allows him to plough money into the club without FFP restrictions.

£200M? That's nothing to Usmanov, its like the Evertonian who donated a fiver to the kopite go fund me page, so he could enter his donor name as... Kopites R Gobshites.

Has to keep it realistic, no doubt he could sponsor the stadium for £500 Million and above, but FFP would be straight in investigating and dictating the going rate.

The big boys bought and bought, then, when they had enough, FFP then drew the drawbridge up for the also-rans to compete, to ensure the darlings qualified for the Champions League each season.

As long as they keep getting extra spending for Champions League qualification, they will remain there season after season, unless one starts to fall down the ladder, then they will use the performances over so many seasons in the Competition, to ensure they still have a place.

The also-rans do not have a chance, unless FFP is changed.

Like many of the more senior ToffeeWeb community my aim was to hang on long enough to attend the first game at BMD. With the subsequent delays I've amended my aim to living long enough to see work start.
With the latest delay I've left a note with my Will wishing my ashes to be part of the dock infill.

LOL Bill

I’m a bit that way myself. Wanting to take my sons and grandson together as often as I can.

Agree with Brian#78
Financial Fair Play is the perfect example of an oxymoron; all about finance and fuck all to do with fairness.

As if to prove the point - this just popped up on Four Four Two;
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/evertons-long-wait-for-silverware-is-far-from-unique-as-footballs-superpowers-continue-to-dominate

Bill @ 79,

I'm fairly sure I'll still be around when the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock opens... but will I be fit enough to get there?!

And hopefully a few boss concerts in the summer to enjoy as well, Chris W. Who wouldn't want to play at Bramley-Moore Dock during those long and beautiful summer nights, I'd say!

Tony, its crazy to think that both the Rolling Stones and Bowie played at Maine Rd years ago. Sadly, by the time the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock is built, the Rolling Stones will have probably stopped Rolling.

Doubt it, Joe, the Stones will still be playing for another 20 years yet :-)

Is this news that the government will be taking over the council something we should be concerned about?

Anthony @ 89, I was thinking that myself. I doubt there is any wrong doing by EFC or Peel and the club aren't taking funding from LCC ( as was previously proposed ). LCC's only involvement has been in the planning application process.
I'm sure the government intervention will add to delays though.

Well now we have Jedinak and the Tory Mafia taking over the city, so maybe they've manufactured this to be conveniently situated for a few backhanders.

With all the billions of taxpayers cash they've thrown abroad to their mates for dodgy PPE, they may need to put something back in the kitty, and we could benefit, as Bramley-Moore Dock will be a cash injection for the treasury and the City Region.

Rumours are starting to circulate via Twitter that BMD has been put on hold for the foreseeable future. Maybe some of you have already seen it, but treat it with the contempt it deserves, and just laugh at it, cos it's a load of bollocks, no doubt started by some RS.

The Labour Leader of Liverpool Council arrested on corruption charges. The Labour Party ordered to return cash donated by an Everton director. The Government delaying permission to the Bramley-Moore Dock development and now taking over the running of Liverpool City Council.

Should I be worried? I hope I am conflating these stories erroneously.

It is no surprise, given that Liverpool City Council is rotten to the core.

"Communities Secretary Robert Jenrick has confirmed he has received a report from local government inspectors investigating financial irregularities in the awarding of building contracts in the city."

CONFIRMED: Communities Secretary Robert Jenrick has received Max Caller's governance inspection report into Liverpool City Council. As per @christopherhope.

‘Next steps will be set out shortly'. These could include commissioners being sent in to run the council.

Read the Echo this morning about the biggest crook in the North West: Elliot Lawless. Finally, the truth is coming out – he has had his media puppets writing wonderful articles about him being the saviour of developments such as Aura, Residence and Infinity, when all three have been placed into administration.

Any building, planning, regeneration plans, etc will come under absolute scrutiny. Time to get completely rid of this Labour-run council, which is destroying our city and giving it a terrible name worldwide.

We're doomed, I say... doooomed!

Sean,

Do you live in Liverpool?

As far as I can see, any concerns seem to be about contracts awarded by the Council, and developments involving them. Neither seems to to have anything to do with BMD. In fact the decision not to have them involved in anything to do with the financing, looks extremely prudent.

Tony A, yes, I’d forgotten about the potential concerts. A great thought. I’ll have to think about who I’d like to see live there. Most of my lot are knocking on a bit or knocking on Heavens door!, from the inside! Loads of ramps and wheelchair access, and that’s just the stage!

Ah, so the pristine Robert Jenrick is going to cash for favours irregularities in Liverpool? The irony..

Robert Jenrick: What did housing secretary do and why are there calls for him to quit?

"Time to get completely rid of this Labour-run council, which is destroying our city and giving it a terrible name worldwide."

As an alternative, Sean? We could ask an organisation that is rife with corruption to oversee it all. One that gets its friends to form a company dealing with health issues, PPE etc.

Then, despite said company not having a single day's experience in past dealing with PPE and only being formed 44 days ago, awards them a contract to supply PPE for £250 million?

How about Dido Harding being awarded 6-figure contracts to fight Covid despite no prior experience? Her husband, John Penrose, was awarded the anti-corruption post by the Tories. Whether he had a look at his missus getting a fortune is open to debate.

Matt Hancock awarded a PPE contract for tens of millions to the lad who managed his local pub. The list of corruption is obvious.

Any investigatons of this conniving? Behave yourself. Not a chance of that happening.

And now Regeneration chief Nick Kavanagh has been kicked out (arrested December 2019). Appropriate names, "Nick" and "Lawless".

He may end up in the same court as the Conservative cabinet ministers caught fraudulently handing out public funding to thier cronies, Sean. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that but you never know...

Methinks Sean might be a Tory!

Shhhhhh.

From de wirrel

Why is Sean a Tory or from the Wirral? You may as well call him a red shite for good measure.

There has been a serious lack of development in Liverpool for a long time. We can't just blame government managed decline. Planning in Liverpool has been under a cloud since the days of Derek Hatton.

The comparison with Manchester is night and day. Similar sized cities, one is forward thinking and full of development whilst the other can't build a hospital or only has local shady businessmen pulling strings.

Whilst I agree that involving Jenrick is like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire, it doesn't surprise me that the new stadium project at Bramley-Moore Dock should come under closer scrutiny.

Thomas @102,

I knew Kenwright must have entrusted Stringer Bell and Avon Barksdale with that "ring-fenced" stadium money.

Planning in Liverpool has been under a cloud since the days of Derek Hatton."

Can you explain that please?

,"Planning in Liverpool has been under a cloud since the days of Derek Hatton."

Can you explain that please ,,michael.kenrick@gmail.com,1,13:48:55,,109.249.181.53,ok,23848,03/23/2021 13:48:55,Tomrichards2@outlook.com,reader,,,no 1141882,40592,toffeeweb,23/03/2021,Bill Gall,gallw@bellaliant.net,"My only interaction with the Everton youth system was in the '60s.

We had a young 16-year-old player named Norman Whitehead who was on Everton's books. Norman was a bit of a rebel off the pitch but showed his ability on the pitch. The coaches who ran the youth teams tried to change him, first by putting him in the B teams and then not playing him. He tried to get away, but whomever (I can't remember who was in charge at that time) would not let him go.

What we done was to get a reporter from the Express (the name H Potter sticks in my mind) and a father of one of our other players, Mr Early, who worked at Everton as a steward, to meet with the head of the academy. Harry Catterick was manager at that time but never bothered with anyone below the reserves.

After a discussion that involved threats of articles in the press, we got Norman released. He was playing for Skelmersdale after that, and I remember he got a trial with Rochdale. I went up with him to Rochdale and he played for the reserves and they won 3-1. they signed him on after that. I don't know much about his career after that as I moved to Canada, but he was a good player.

Kieran #104, I like it, “from de Wire” is much better.

What's with the finger-pointing over people's political preferences and where they're from?

I'm from the Wirral and I believe my season ticket cost the same as someone from Liverpool, or anywhere else for that matter.

What's the problem?

No problem at all, Brian.

Posters gave the ruling political party in Liverpool a bit of stick. I supported the Labour party. Nothing to see, move on.

Nothing wrong with the Wirral, Bri. I’ve been to Birkenhead a few times.

Thomas 105.

The same people, Hatton included get asked regularly to help with enquiries over a number of years to do with property dealing within the city. That is widely reported in the media.

Maybe there is just a load of smoke and no fire or maybe it's a witch hunt. I look at the likes of Manchester, the big business and development it attracts then look at Liverpool.

Rob,

Not sure who you are talking about there.
Any chance of any names?

One question I would ask.
Have there been any charges brought against the people you speak of?

I see Man City have said they are installing 5,620 standing area seats for next season. I wonder whether Everton will now install them into our new stadium.
I know the club said that they have the availability to increase the capacity by installing safe standing areas, would seem madness not to incorporate them permanently into our new stadium. I think that would take up our capacity to around the 60,000 many fans wanted.

My fear commercially in the short term anyway is that steel has risen 40% since Jauary 1st due to a mix of Covid/Brexit. I wonder how that will play out longer term?

Come on Phil someone will have a mate who knows where you can get steel cash in hand and deliver it in their old wagon.

Aye, Len - Moshiri's probably got a warehouse full, covered by the largest sheet of tarpaulin in the world!

Thomas @ 108 and others.
" nothing to see here move on"
" has any charges been made?"
You seem to be strangely untroubled by these events for a Labour supporter of this city.
Yes, the Tory government have many skeletons in their collective cupboard but I think you have to face up to this absolute unprecedented embarrassment for the city of Liverpool and the Labour party.
Someone mentioned Everton not going with the LCC loan idea to fund the stadium was prudent ( I think was the term used) to me it is ominous in hindsight.
Maybe Evertons hierarchy seen what was going on, the idea was certainly off the table quickly without much talk about why.
I like all of us here hope this doesn't stop the progress of BMD that would be another embarrassing calamity.
Oh and I'm from Liverpool and a Labour supporter for the record.

Billy,

I am indeed untroubled by "these events"

Seen the character assasinations through the media many times.
A tiny percentage of media coverage when the person is released without charge compared to the front page headlines when they are first brought in.

NONE of the people mentioned have been charged with anything.
Innocent until proved guilty.

Private money funding the stadium. Not council funding.

Don't know if anybody has posted this link yet but here's the report today on Liverpool City Council from the Secretary of State for (Poor) Housing, (Abandoned) Communities and Local Govt.

Link

And here's the letter to LCC Chief Exec:
Link

Billy,

It was me who used the word prudent to describe the decision not to take up the Council’s offer of finance.

Since these issues were first raised in 2019, I’d be astonished if nobody at Everton had not been aware of the undercurrents. If we’d taken them up on the offer, that might have been ominous.

And as Thomas has said, since that time no charges have yet been made, but as far as I can see, this has less to do with personalities than with culture, management and business practices, or lack thereof. Which doesn’t mean it isn’t dodgy, or perhaps allows dodginess to go on.

An article in the Echo now about this and its effect on BMD, which is pretty superficial.
,

Thomas @117
I wish I could share your optimism, the fact is there will be now be Government officials in place for 3 years " monitoring " how this council is run.
You surely have to see the seriousness of the situation, the credibility damaged.
While I share your belief in innocent until proven guilty, how does a leader of a City the size of Liverpool find himself embroiled in this investigation?
That in itself tells you that something stinks here far more than your average " media propaganda ".
I am fully aware that Everton intend to finance this privately Thomas, my point was how the win/win situation of the LCC loan was dropped so quickly without much debate. I mentioned it was ominous in retrospect.
What put them off?, did they know about a Police investigation? or did they know about what the Pilice were investigating?

Billy.

They hate this city with a passion.
Brought about by our general refusal to stick to the status quo.

They hate our elected representatives as well.

Away from that.
See Ricky Tomlinson got cleared from the character assassination that saw him go to prison 50 years ago.
Just the 50 years it took to clear them. On the same evidence available 50 years ago

Thomas@ 122
I think we have a lot in common but we will have to disagree on this one.
I went to see Ricky Tomlinson speak about the stitch up that left him and others in prison for simply striking at numerous sites.
I hope it gives him some satisfaction because I honestly don't know how you would feel in the circumstances.
Without being morbid at least he is alive to see it.

So we are now to be governed for 3 years by a Tory party who handed PPE contracts to friends who had no previous knowledge of medical supplies. They have had 2 senior civil servants walk away albeit with large pay offs from the public purse because of the bullying nature of the Home Secretary. Jenrick somehow got massive payments to his constituency which was supposed to go to the poorest councils, despite his constituency being 145 on the list. The Conservatives in Scotland couldn't wait to bring a no confidence vote in Sturgeon, claiming she had misled parliament, they obviously don't listen to their own serial liar Boris Johnson.

Also find it rather strange that when questioned the Chief of Police for Liverpool said they had decided not to try and get a court to extend Andersons bail, because Kavanagh had been removed from his post and that Jenrick was about to put Liverpool under Government control. What relevance does that have to Andersons bail. I have no idea whether Anderson is guilty of any of the charges levelled against him, but to have this countries most corrupt politicians be making decisions for our City is a joke.

Thomas, re Ricky Tomlinson - that was a shocking case. A good little book by Jim Arnison (The Shrewsbury Three) who I heard speak at a local Labour Party meeting a few years ago. In 1972 building workers (incl Ricky) go to Shrewsbury, collected by coach from various points across North Wales, to a picket site in Shrewsbury. Picket there for the day, friendly banter with a couple of coppers, coach drops them off home at the end of the day. No trouble, no arrests. Nothing. Months later, 24 arrested, trumped up charges of conspiracy to intimidate, etc. Ricky one of those prosecuted. Prison sentences involved. Official Secrets Act used to keep certain information being made public. Almost 50 years later...convictions quashed. 50 years later!!

Poachers turned gamekeepers Brian.

A disgrace Brent.

Another victim of the Economic League organisation.

Brian #124 amen to that!!

Thomas, rumour has it that the Special Branch was in cahoots with the Economic League. Trade unionists blackballed by employers on the basis of hearsay provided by the League. John Mann, Labour MP had a job offer withdrawn when his name was found to be on the list.

I bet I was on the list!

Me too Brent.

Qualifications were you had to be a trade union member.
And.. . .

Mr Jenrick said the "Best Value inspection", commissioned in December, had found "multiple apparent failures" and a "deeply concerning picture of mismanagement" in some functions at the Labour-run authority

"Multiple apparent failures"

What does that mean?

"A deeply concerning mis management."

Pardon?

They throw these cover all statements out then leave it to the publics imagination

Thomas,

The report was prepared by a consultant, and that is typical consultant- speak. After the lawyers have vetted it.

If he is any good, and none of us know that, you can bet your life there will possibly be all sorts of shit behind the headlines they’ve made public. I doubt it’s even legal at this stage, to be too explicit, before they’ve dug into it

I hate this government and all it stands for, but even this grisly gang wouldn’t manufacture this with everything else they’re fucking up.

Although frankly, nothing would surprise me.

Trial by media is a reflection of the state we are in as a nation.
"it must be true, it was in the echo/mail etc.
It must be true it was on the telly"

If they have justifiable charges ready. Charge them.

Until that day arrives they will remain innocent.

Totally agree with all of that Thomas.

Main victims either way? People of Liverpool

The fact the police fucked up by destroying witness evidence doesn't mean Tomlinson wasn't involved in alleged offences it just means it was a fucked up prosecution like OJ in the states.

Not a "clearance" of his name in my book the gobshite has always been a nasty little extremist and archetypal professional scouse stereotype. The stereotype that has caused this city so much trouble over the years

Tomlinson couldn't lie straight in bed

Barry,

Didnt Ricky donate £1 million to Alder Hey Childrens Hospital?

Barry #133 "Not a "clearance" of his name in my book the gobshite has always been a nasty little extremist and archetypal professional scouse stereotype. The stereotype that has caused this city so much trouble over the years".

I see you offer no evidence of his guilt in this case.

Thomas

Just googled his worth apparently it's in the $20 million bracket and bear in mind charitable gifts are tax deductable. I think once past your first million with everything paid for and the dough still rolling in you're looking for ways to get rid of your loot.

Not that it has any bearing on his activist tendencies

Brent

Why on earth should I?

How much did you donate Barry?

Tax deductable of course

Thomas

Not really any of your business is it?

I would be surprised if you did, Barry.

Is Rickys business any of yours Barry?

Brent

Which matters to me exactly why???

Thomas

He makes his money from public appearances it's like someone saying those lads in blue you support are private geezers so stop opining about them.

You haven't thought this through

Barry @133
Where do I start with that post?
The police managed to put 3 of them in prison with their fucked up evidence.
I'd say that was a result for them twats, OJ Simpson murdered and mutilated 2 people.
Excellent comparison.
Anyway up the Blues!! I better try and get this back football related.
Any ideas for the name of our potential new stadium??? The Joe Anderson ground???

Keep on debate Barry.

No deflection please.

You think you can accuse him and slag him because he is a public figure?

Billy

You just confirmed my police fucked up the prosecution notion but carry on..

You also demonstrated your bizarre hatred of law enforcers who on the whole protect the freedom you are now benefitting from by venting unfettered opinion.

The new ground should be called "z cars" (joke - the attraction of a police reference tho, lol)

Thomas

I just demolished this obscure line of yours by referencing you opining about Everton players it isn't deflection it is holing waffle below the water line.

Your inference critical opinion of public figures does not happen whilst posting on here is at best weird and at worst shows you don't pay attention.

Wakey wakey

Barry,

You can have a start on the replacement local conservative committee tomorrow Barry.
Working alongside the cavalry.
Report to Millenium House 8am.

(don't forget your knee pads)

It matters to neither of us, Barry.

Thomas

Absolutely no idea what you're on about but terrific to see your digging has stopped - what a monumental hole you were making

I know, me knees are killimg me.

Lends your knee pads

Brent

EXACTLY!! so why did you bring it up?

Thomas

No pads but I can get you a mini digger at very reasonable money 😜😜

Whats his name?

Barry - quite simple - I merely stated that you offered no evidence of his guilt - but that doesn't matter to me.

Barry @146
So if the Police hadn't fucked up the prosecution how many years would the defendants engaging in legal strike action have gotten ? 10years, hmmm
As for my " bizarre hatred of law enforcement " ? You're amazing Barry how you figured my whole opinion of the Police force by the use of one word
Twats,. yes the twats involved in putting people behind bars for no good reason.
That's a comment about the individuals involved not the whole institution.
As for them protecting the free world so I could vent my unfettered opinion ?
I will right a letter to the Chief of Police tomorrow thanking them for this.
And you can follow suit with your unfettered opinion displayed at post 133.
Funny you never mentioned your tasteless comparison with OJ Simpson on your response, can you clear up that comparison again.

Brent

When something doesn't matter to you the best policy is to just keep quiet and maybe boil a kettle and get the biccies out. Ginger nuts, fig rolls and chocolate chip cookies with a layer of chocolate on one side are my fave

Billy

Ok, see my above comment about biccies

No, Barry, both are possible.

The local constabulary will be paying you a visir if you get the ginger nuts out in public Barry

Brent

Indeed, but to link to Thomas point about my "nuts" - it is "possible" for me to whip them out in public but not advisable. Ditto some of your postings here

Barry (various), the police "fucking up" amounted to the deliberate destruction of statements from witnesses that made criminal conviction a non-starter had they been heard, as even in those days they should have been.

That's not "fucking up". It's "conspiracy to pervert the course of public justice" for which a life sentence can be imposed.

I'm not a Tomlinson fan either, at all, but he was grievously wronged by the powers-that-were whose conduct was wholly unlawful, rather like BoJo's been, several times, since lying his way to election.

Given I think BoJo's got as much credibility as a turd on my shoe though, I genuinely think we'll get quick permission to build BMD so that he can use it to rave on about how "kind" to the North he's been when the next election comes.

Don

"deliberate destruction of statements from witnesses that made criminal conviction a non-starter "

Can you cite copies of these statements for me to judge if you are talking fact or assertion pls?

Steady on Barry.

"whip them out in public"

I didnt post that.
You are overcome with enthusiasm.

Barry, it appears that the convictions were unsafe because of the destruction of the statements - not because of what might have been in them. The destruction of statements is the fact. Keep up.

Barry @163
Dont worry about it, have a biscuit
Haha, you crack me up your bonkers !!
First that brilliant joke about Z cars and then all that stuff about ginger biscuits and stuff brilliant.

Barry, the media across the board have reported their destruction to be the truth. Media lawyers would never permit such coverage unless the powers-that-be fully accepted this truth (they'd be trounced by those "powers" in court otherwise).

Therefore nobody can now provide copies of those statements.

Further, not only was Tomlinson grossly wronged in the first place but having to wait fifty years for exoneration shows that successive governments for five decades have continually behaved disgracefully towards justice.

Don

Not sure the media have said the "statements" categorically carried evidence exonerating the perps indeed if any of the witnesses have lasted the course how come they have not repeated such facts to the press or authorities?

Lots of inferences but nothing in the way of hard evidence to say these guys are innocent. Identifying a fucked up prosecution case is not the same thing as declaring someone innocent - hang them I say

Brent

You keep confirming my points but don't seem to realise it are you ok?

Barry, who KNOWS? That's the key issue.

If I'd made such a statement and then watched innocent people be convicted and imprisoned I'd like to think I'd try to be heard. That said, in Tomlinson's case PM Edward Heath had a secret unit engage with MI5 to do something severe about mass picketing, the like of which had been used in the '71 Miners' strike to damage the government massively.

The government then and now can use "D" notices (in their jargon) to repress the media on the grounds of alleged (but not explained) "national security". The media are careful not to broadcast untruthful material re the government. Before publication on anything relating to government/police conduct they always first ask the government/police for comment, to cover themselves. That's when the "D" notice is imposed.

Now I don't KNOW anything, of course.

But somebody/ies do! And that's the truth!!

I think if there has been something wrong with the way The Council have run the City then this Tory government are going the right way to get it right, using the old saying. “ Set a thief to catch a thief” Who knows more about that than many in this Tory cabinet.

None more so than Mr Jenrick, Dave.

Expected I suppose. The government just kicks it into the long grass. Happened before when Prescot refused permission at exactly this stage.

Don, exactly.

And Dave.