Everton squander a winning position for one more point

Anyway, pleased to see Warrington and Mills on the bench and I hope they get some more minutes in.

There is more than one way of winning a game of footy.

I would have put Onana up top today and kept Davies in but what do I know?

Utft coyb.

I was trying to get a ticket for today, but no luck… so will have it on the radio whilst fitting my kitchen.

Yeah, Mike, hopefully Onana keeps a cool head

And so we go with 5-5-0. If Brentford hit their stride, we are in for a walloping, and rightly so.

What team would you have picked?

I don't see that we have a lot of options.

Who has he left out from bench options?

I know Rondon was poor during the week, but he's the only striker in the squad, should start. Hope I'm wrong, but hard to see where goals will come from.

Not being negative, Allan back on the bench – I don't understand why he didn't get match fitness against Fleetwood.

Well, I would've thought, after taking him there, an out-and-out striker in Tom Cannon.

I know we're limited in options going forward that's not what I'm saying, just looked at bench and thought if we're losing 1 or 2 nil, I cannot see anyone on that bench changing the game for us.

Very defensive bench.

I know you don't have forwards, Frank, but you should be able to do better than this.

I'd be inclined to roll the dice too but, that being said, the likes of Brent who've watched him a lot aren't exactly effusive in their praise.

Presumably Frank has a pretty good idea of his strengths and weaknesses so I suspect our hopeful outlook is countered by hard realities as to his ability at this point.

The problem is the lack of midfield with the 5-man defence. There is no budging from this tactic... Lampard will die on this particular sword.

Hopefully we can overcome that particular handicap and win. I predict plenty of long-range shots... Hopefully a couple hit the back of the net.

Let's go.

I must admit not seen a lot but, when I see Coleman on the bench, I just think him, Simms, Dobbin would be an option if we're behind until hopefully we get some more offensive players in.

Hopefully today they've been told to fire the crosses in hard and low and we may just get something from one of them.

Whatever, any win would be great and a Gordon goal or assist would be the icing on the cake.

COYBLUES!

I suppose there is some sort of a chance that the three wingers might pay off one week or somebody has had shooting on sight practice through the week but doesn't fill me with hope.

Awful decision-making in letting so many go on loan, and we are so light up top. Back five again! Frank is lost.

Talk about giving players a chance...

Why the fuck is he persisting with a formation and line-up that does not work? This stupidity and stubbornness will cost him, and us, dearly.

Maybe try another song?

Interesting Onana gets a start (Davies coming in as a sub second half), hoping he will get playing more as an attacking midfielder.

The wandering Angus, Iowbi is now Everton's pivotal midfielder. Can Gray, Gordon and McNeil engage more in their forward roles supported by play from midfield and link up from runners arising from there?

Surely practising this, week-in & week-out on the training ground, will finally click with these players.

Keep tempting fate, mate, and we can thrash them.

I was gonna ask if it was deflected?

That's true… but a goal for them could easily see it become 1-1.

How is Gordon playing?

Tarkowski and Coady only a slight improvement on Keane and Godfrey.

Our problem is you need to lead games to learn how to lead in games. If you added up the minutes we were in the lead since last year, it probably comes to about an hour in total.

He's a grumpy fucker, isn't he? He's very critical of Everton, although honestly there's much to be critical of.

How good is Iwobi?

I love Onana, but he needs to take note of the ground Iwobi covers and show for the ball more.

I'd say we've been more than a bit shaky at the back, but you and Jamie have this guy nailed. He literally has nothing positive to say about anybody or anything.

3 points, couldn't care less about the performance!!!

Onana and Iwobi working very well together. Nice crisp simple passing and mostly forward.

All the offensive line having a decent game including the wing backs who are much further forward.

Centre-halves are worrying. Utter confusion with the 3 centre-halves. Take one off, for Christ's sake, or move Coady forward.

Horrible looking fixture on Tuesday night and then we'll probably get bounced next Saturday so holding on for this win is crucial.

Nice touch at the end there though to set up that very late attack.

Best I've seen this formation work .

Iwobi again looking like the Nigerian David Silva ..

Onana settling well...

McNeil's best 45 yet.

The mistakes at the back will happen, when you think only one of them has been here longer than 8 months...

Positive play on the front foot.

Iwobi and Onana look a good pair in midfield and Gordon showing a lot more confidence.

Here's hoping we can step up defensively for the next 45 minutes but a second goal would be a bonus.

We found touch on kicking off which seemed to set the standard.

McNeil is rubbish, was Holgate actually on the pitch for most of that half? And it took 15 minutes for somebody to tell Onana that we are the team in blue and we're kicking the opposite way that he is.

Our defending is rubbish but the long ball over the top to the three wingers seems our best bet, well it's paid off so far. I really can't see Lampard knowing how to improve on it.

Re Gary Birtles, it's crazy that he got 2 European Cup medals. Probably gone to his head.

How can you make a comment like that on Gordon and Iwobi when you have missed most of the first half?

Onana showing the odd bit of promise. Green shoots.

And Gordon showing why Chelsea want him.

Keep it going, boys!

Looking very poor at the back. If their luck changes in the second half and we don't sort our back three out, we will concede a couple here.

Iwobi person of the match so far. What!!

Onano playing it safe as a holding midfielder.

Back a bit shaky. But Everton more composed at the end of the half.

Hope they can with stand the initial Brentford onslaught after the break.

As least Frank has the option of Rondon to strength the Everton shape and keep Brentford from pushing forward and supporting their midfield in the second half, as they will try to do.

Failed miserably at United but comments like he was Messi and Beckenbeur rolled into one.

We are riding our luck but it can be expected with basically a whole new defence.

Tarkowski and Coady are good at making those long passes over the slow defense with a high line. We got Anthony and Demarai with Mykolenko and Patterson going down there so we should get another goal.

Btw, Brooks is not a good ref, typical homer seeking home grounds affection. He is allowing them to play hard but if we try the same, it's a yellow card.

Needs reminding there are 2 teams...

I wonder what comes next ?

Top players are playing 70 games a season, ours are doing 25 tops. Pro rata, they're the best laid footballers in football.

Gray should have done better there.

Bill can stick his good times up his fat arse.

All close scores today.

Frank left the subs too late.

We are dreadful!

Sorry state of affairs.

But COYB

We are so shite and have spunked money on bang average players and are still doing it now but still do not learn any lessons.

Just away?

We won't get another point for a long long time. Fuckin garbage.

None of them have a fucking clue what they're at in that daft fucking system and it just invites the opposition on.

Lampard is a coward.

The club is (has been) run in such an amateurish way. On the pitch, we scream third-rate. Collectively.

I'll not be satisfied until the likes of Kenwright are out of this club.

We've got fucking Bill Kenwright and his fucking cronies. What do you expect?

Who comes in?

People on here need to grow up.

It's just a shit one.

"Must admit the doubts are creeping in" — don't go overboard, mate.

We've got to be better and show more fight for it.

Yet again, we have hung on. We haven't created anything and we are playing 5 at the back all the time.

It's really, really, really poor and predictable. Doing my head in now.

1 point away seems fair though, if not the posts save us a few times.

Alvin Martin reckons Brentford could have had six today. Six! This is not good enough, Frank. I am sick of trying to hold on for a one-all draw like grim death against mediocre shite whilst other teams canter to victories.

We make everything look so fucking difficult.

Hopefully Maupay can hit the ground running and we can sort out our lot in the next 2 days before we play Leeds.

What happens to Gordon now?

We have another game on Wednesday, so why not more substitutions? Most of our bench were defensive-minded anyway...

I fucking hate this system!

I saw the game, we were on top; second half, we sat back and were in desparate need of a lift. But that's my fault? I think not.

I think that's Lampard. I'm not having a go at Lampard but he needed to make changes and he didn't so we paid the price. End of.

We remain fundamentally weak. I didn't think we had any truly impressive performers today.

Brentford came out playing the long ball and neither side seemed to have any creativity until Everton decided to sit back. If that's the best in-game management that Lampard has to offer, then he should go now.

His substitutions were all wrong. Onana should have stayed on and McNeil, who had done nothing, should have been taken off and rather than Keane, Coleman should have been on.

An awful display but seemed to be right in line with the manager's thinking!

Stupidly late subs when you want to break up the game and have to protect a lead.

3 points today would have been great at this time next week cos 3 points from these 3 games is the most we could expect, and most Toffees would be happy with that return.

Sat back shitting themselves, hoping for a breakaway goal, trying to keep the mighty Brentford at bay. No power, no identity, no belief, no anything.

That second half was unacceptable, this five at the back crap, and we can barely defend anywhere forward of the box.

Very poor, looks essentially the same as most of the last 6 years. The loser culture remains intact.

That is the problem with having so many experts on ToffeeWeb.

He seems to set up well, then fades – subs are reactive rather than proactive though, a problem we've had for years.

Not sure Brentford didn't have four instances of substitutions though, instead of the permitted three occasions?

From Thursday though, we shall see. Think changing again this season though is premier league suicide.

These next few days are big for Everton FC.

It involves starting out playing in half the field, then retreating to the penalty area for the second half, and finally being defeated.

Do you not think we were lucky to get a point??

Lampard at fault again.

Lampard is looking more and more clueless as time goes on. I seriously doubt his ability to manage a game.

We weren't defeated though.

I did think Vinagre looked a lot better than Mykolenko, and Onana will be a force for us once he gets up to the pace of the Premier League.

Lampard's substitutions were puzzling.

Some really poor defending when faced with the high press by other teams.

Will be interesting how we play with an actual striker on Tuesday, I think we've a half-decent team once that's sorted.

nb: If this was Gordon's farewell performance, he put in one hell of a shift!

We got one well-taken goal, and everything else was well saved by their goalie.

We might well have won it, but a result based on anything but unbelievably bad finishing by Brentford would have seen them out of sight.

We had our chances and would have been nice to hold on but Brentford will rue hitting the woodwork 4 times. Lady Luck was with us for a change.

Couple of good incomings this week and I will be feeling a bit better.

It is what Everton do routinely, so we should not be surprised.

It won't be from the next three; by the end of September, this club will be rock bottom.

Can't score goals, can't defend under any kind of pressure even with three big grocks in defence.

Mykolenko needs dropping for Vinagre, as he simply offers zilcho going forward and doesn't stop crosses.

Patterson can't defend either.

Pretty much the relegation battle that we all expect is already starting to emerge loud and clear.

Maupay is gonna have to be something special to offer some kind of dynamic to this side.

I'm waiting until Wednesday anyway to "judge Moshiri after the window closes".

I'm not expecting much.

If you want to defend that display to the point of criticizing others that don't like seeing negative crap, then fair enough. I don't know what you personally would call poor football, but I wouldn't want to watch it.

The loss of that goal to Brentford was on the cards for the whole second half, and we just carried on exactly the same for 45 minutes just waiting for it to happen. It was dire.

How long will they stick with it? We lose too much in midfield every time, end up on the back foot and create little. Especially via the wingback route - which is why we are playing this god damned system!

The next big hope is going to be the new midfielder bought will sort it all out.

Only hope we have is not to get it to the last game of the season for survival.

I'd like to see Coleman for Patterson and Vinagre for Mykolenko against Liverpool.

I agree overall, but it wasn't a penalty because the ball hits his knee or thigh first.

Very happy with a point given our current squad. Trying to remain patient.

Are we going back in for Brereton Diaz so we don't have to keep pulling Rondon out whilst waiting for the fella who's spent 12 months injured?

Four days will tell us much, stay with this squad and I think it's us, Bournemouth and one other for relegation this season.

Lampard didn't get his substitutes right – Davies should have come on as an extra midfielder, not to replace Onana, and Rondon should have come on earlier.

As for some of the histrionic comments on here? Go and have a lie down.

That, surely, was Rondon's last appearance. But then again, I made the mistake of thinking that last season.

McNeil is admittedly beginning to worry me, but I'll give him him another 10 games or so to prove he's not yet more deadwood.

We only really create a persistent threat with four at the back and an extra man in midfield.

Because of that, we have no one in midfield and so Picckford launches long balls to our 3 front players that can't head a ball between them.

I can't see Maupay making a difference to that either.
We play nice football but sit back far too much because of this negative system.

Pickford also looked like his old erratic self and needs to calm down. We also seem to be giving the opposition way too much space because we drop deep.

Early days with a new team but Frank has a few things to sort out before our next game as it is quickly getting worrying without a win so far.

Maupay should make a huge difference to this team to give us balance and a target – looking forward to seeing him.

Gutted winning for so long... but it probably flattered us.

Keep them coming, boys n girls. Leeds up next. Got no chance of a point there or on Saturday. Just my opinion though. COYB...

Lampard needs help in his game management.

He needs to drop this 5 at the back and get back to a back 4.

This next few days is massive now for Everton FC.

They have got to get the transfers right and done. The bench was awful.

Maupay simply has to start, no matter what.

We created fuck-all again there today.

He was too busy staying back waiting to defend the next Brentford attack, not what the wingback role is supposed to be when in possession.

Post 415
‘Maupay should make a huge difference.'

ToffeeWeb, eh?

Again, this one's on Frank. 10-man defence plus goalie. Against this Brentford? Our front man hovering between the centre circle and the penalty circle.

A Moyes team playing this kind of shit had me shitting myself.
Frank hasn't the nouse nor the players to do it. Brentford looked vulnerable when our ball players moved forward, when we put a high field press on them.

This is not going to cut it I'm afraid. Exceptionally worried. We're losing points to indifferent teams.

Everton forced deep, under pressure as a result. Cracking under pressure from a corner.

Your only post at 16:45, after they score, dreadful display, and Lampard out, pathetic.

Mike Gaynes is spot on, some people wait until we concede, before they make a comment.

Disappointed to concede so late, but would have taken a point from the off, considering they're last home game was 4-0 against Man Utd.

‘Straightforward penalty'

Ridiculous statement.

2 points out of 12. Calm down.

The back 5 thing is frustrating. Now that we have signed a striker, Frank's biggest challenges are making a back 5 work and making zonal defending work at set-pieces.

Neither look right.

It could be his undoing.

Next three games will be grim.

Sorry. Typo there. Championship rather!

I would have put Warrington on instead of Davies. I can see improvement but there are mistakes that Frank keeps making that can be avoided.

Kenwright Out!

Why didn't Frank stop the momentum and bring in some fresh blood? Everton began looking increasingly disorganized.

Instead, he makes a bloody substitution after they get their equalizer.

The ball hit Iwobi's leg (thigh?) and shot upwards where it hit his hand which was in the air just above his head. It was probably unintentional, but Iwobi certainly controlled the ball and benefitted.

His hand was in a very odd location ("unnatural") and if it had been done by a Brentford player, I'd be claiming a "stonewall" or "nailed-on" penalty (I don't understand those terms, but they seem to be the usual terms in football).

Suggesting it was a penalty certainly wasn't "ridiculous". It was marginal either way at best.

I think we can have 5 substitutions now? Which is why it's so mind-boggling that we (again) failed to put fresh legs on early enough to make any difference.

And it's only four days until the next game, when we'll probably field a side containing very much the same starting players...

I'm almost starting to wonder if Frank remembers himself to be so tireless that he never needed any rest between games at all... ;P

Is Haaland for sale?

As usual we paid the price late on.

What do you expect playing over-lapping full-backs (wingbacks) and three wingers, who the hell are they supposed to be supplying?

It doesn't seem to be a difficult question.

Why not McNeil off instead of Onana?

Franks subs have zero imagination.

He is entirely predictable.

Bets are off. The starting formation will be the same, that is what is practised on the training ground, week-in and week-out. Frank wants to play through the opposition defence rather than apply the high press.

He does not see the value of having a centre-forward to keep shape by leading the line to prevent the opposition defensive line from pushing up to support their midfield and attack either.

Frank's second-half substitutions, both in timing and in the case of some personnel, made no sense to me at all.

On a positive, that was an unexpected point today.

Why didn't they sign Maupay before noon yesterday so he was available today? Oh, I forgot – it's Everton and we are run by cretins.

Clearly there are issues. The full-backs are not quite working and obviously game management can improve. I think that's the 3rd time we've conceded in the last 15 minutes in 4 games. Need to be more resilient.

There do seem a few positive things brewing but I worry they will ferment too slowly. Let's see what players we have by next weekend. Maupay will help (a bit) but he's not gonna fix the whole thing.

"Shocking decision to bring Davies on for Onana."

When the exact opposite happened last week, people were saying that was also a shocking decision. It seems like Frank is damned either way.

We could all see the goal coming, the defending was fucking awful, thank fuck Brentford had an off day!

McNeil cost £20 million, he ain't worth it!

Positive was Gordon's goal which might add another few million if he goes, which I don't think will happen.

Only real pace in the position comes from Godfrey who is out of commission and is too weak in the position to play in a 2.

Lampard would prefer to play a 4, but can't with the squad he has. Doesn't mean to say that Tarkowski and Coady weren't good business.

We don't have a midfield and, even if we did, they can only pass to the three wingers.

The whole thing needs rethinking, wingbacks and at most one winger and the desperately needed strikers.

Do we have anyone in midfield who can create and chip in with a goal now and then because I've not seen him but I have seen more long ball than quality football.

Whether he makes a difference or not, I was merely pointing out the contrary opinions in consecutive posts. Typical ToffeeWeb!

Charles@436

The ball was much too close to be considered handball when it travelled inches from his thigh to his arm.

I believe he will have a stronger midfield and can change the system and play four at the back and three in midfield, and make us more offensive with Calvert-Lewin and maybe Maupay upfront.

Mykolenko is a lot more effective in a back four, in my opinion.

Sorry, everybody was shit, Lampard out, Board out, negative rubbish, relegation battle, etc.

So a draw is quite good in a bottom-of-the-league fighting relegation sorta way.

Let's get that 4th from bottom spot consolidated

But, on the face of it, a draw away at in-form Brentford seems a decent result with no striker. I'll watch the highlights later and read the comments in the meantime.

I predicted at the start of the season we'd have 3 points by mid-Sepember, prove me wrong Everton.

Gordon playing like he's realised he's a £50M player. He was excellent. Everyone else, bar Pickford, was poor. As long as Davies is able to get in the squad, we know we are nowhere near good enough.

Danny O'Neill might see that as a good omen for the FA Cup?

They weren't contrasting views.

My point was long balls kicked up the pitch by Pickford will have the same effect with Maupay there, ie. give the ball to the opposition.I did not say he wouldn't make a difference to our effectiveness up front.

I was complaining about the negativity of 5 at the back and launching long balls to McNeil, Gordon and Gray.

One says he isn't tall enough and another that he isn't quick enough... I wonder what you make of McNeil?

It seems a lot have the violin but only know the one tune.

Do us a favour: watch the game (not MotD), come back, and then add some educated comment.

Ooooh, a point at Brentford, good point.

Bog off.

Lampard has 2 right backs, 2 left backs and 4 central defenders so he can play 4 at the back very easily.

He chooses not to because Clement is a negative tactical poison at every club he has been at.

Great game, pity to spoil it by reading some of the comments.

We need some new supporters — not a new board.

I agree, every player at most clubs has been brought up on playing a back 4, it's a back 5 that confuses them.

"We need some new supporters – not a new board."

What a ridiculous remark.

Wouldn't it be nice to prioritise goals and playmakers just for a (one-off) season.

Punches out rather than catching, seems to be very highly strung in games which does not help our backs.

Maybe a bigger keeper would command his area better and sort out our corners.

The players are better than that circus at the back today. That's on the manager and the way he has us set up.

It's bloody Brentford, not Arsenal! Man Utd were crap on the day and Brentford were fired up! What about comparing their win against shite or their win today at the south coast!!? Is it something we can pull off with the way we are playing? Not a chance in hell!

We were lucky today to get away with a point. That's all. Please watch the whole of the second half again and tell me honestly that, based on that, we are good enough to get to the 40 points mark this season.

It's so frustrating that some are trying to give it a positive spin. No wonder we are where we are!!!

I've said all summer we are a 12th to 14th club. Once we get another striker and some legs in midfield, we will be okay-ish.

We should change it up depending on who we are playing.
Tarkowski and Coady should be solid enough and allow extra player in midfield.

We are Everton, for fuck's sake!

“We need some new supporters not a new board.”

ToffeeWeb, stop tittering at the back of the class.
And you lot in the middle. And at the front.

No, I'm not tittering, Kenrick Minor. It's indigestion. Really!

I know a point at Brentford shouldn't be considered a good result but could easily have been 3-1 or 4-1 the hit the woodwork 3 times or was it 4???

I still think our personnel would suit 4 at the back. Now we have Onana, he can sit, the wingers can play on the wing, full-backs can defend or overlap when going forward.

There were times today when McNeil was our striker and looks like he's not enjoying it. Though he did have a decent first half.

We could do away with Holgate, play 4-1-4-1. Square pegs in square holes.

“Didn't watch the game.”

You often say that.

Yeah, Mike? Unlike you sunshine who thinks that he has got to be here and on every Forum and has a 'yes man' remark about every fucking thing – while 'a few who were not posting the whole day until it happened (?)" were quietly taking in all the bullshit that is thrown up 'by those that were here all day posting'.

Meanwhile, back in deepest Louisianna...

I wish I shared your optimism! This is dire stuff. And McNeil looks like someone we'll have trouble offloading.

That's no excuse. I am at work and managed to comment based upon reading the informed and entirely cohesive comments from everyone on here.

Started the game well. Looked lost second half, but it's not his game. He's a "dribble, beat a man, and get a cross in" guy. I hope he's just settling and we see more from him.

He will be the one who loses out if Maupay starts against Leeds, unless we go to 4 at the back, which I hope we do because Keane is a liability.

I'll judge Lampard, and the team, in a few months time once he has his squad together. If we can get Gana back, then a midfield trio of Gueye, Iwobi (can't believe I'm writing that) and Onana will be strong to beat.

I'm in awe of you, Kieran. 😉

Lucky you, any jobs going? lol

Supporter -– a person who gives encouragement and approval to someone or something:

Not applicable to a minority of people on TW who slag the team and club however they do. These people are fans not supporters and are not needed by the club. Not only not needed but a millstone around the neck of the club.

"Need some new supporters" not a new board"

Always suspected you are a club plant, you've just strengthened my suspicion!!

That would mean dropping this insane 5-man back line, Colin. There's no evidence that's happening any time soon.

We are at the beginning of another major overhaul and only 4 games into the new season. We've been involved in every game and are edging nearer to winning games.

If we're in the Bottom 3 halfway through the season, then I'll be more worried. Some people would advocate changing managers every other week, it's ridiculous.

For once, Lady Luck smiled on us on a few occasions.

Got be happy with a point.

The millstone around the neck of this club is not on this forum.

If you are happy with the team selection, tactics and game management today, I am pleased for you but please don't tell fellow Evertonians they are a millstone around the neck of the club because they have a different opinion to you.

I suggest that the answer is a very scary one, and very clarifying.

I do believe Frank's favourite formation would be 4-3-3. I just don't think he's had the midfield to play it. He got burnt trying it when he first arrived and we took a few beatings. But I think now's the time for change.

If Holgate is injured and Maupay can play, let's have a go.
I'd rather us get beat trying to win the match than trying to keep it nil-nil and nick one, when inevitably we lose or draw anyway.

I back Frank, I just think he has to try something else now. I don't think he would get much stick for trying. Oh, he gets stick anyway, so nothing to lose.

He will revert to a back 3 when he has the right players. You are spot on.

Did I say that I was happy with any aspects of today's game? Did I say that it was this forum that was the problem? No, I said a minority on this forum were a problem.

If I had to differentiate, it is between fans and supporters. Fans scream when they don't get the success they demand and believe is theirs by right; supporters get behind the club and support them in achieving that success together.

I'm a supporter, you have to decide where you are on the spectrum.

I agree. I don't think he's entrenched in a back five. I think it's pragmatic based on what he has seen this team do. Better players should free us up a bit.

Our strength is the width we could have. We have 2 energetic young fullbacks willing to get forward, 2 really good wide men (3 if McNeil comes good). Let's play to their strengths, especially when we have Maupay or Calvert-Lewinin there.

It's just my opinion, I'm sure others have their own

Still, we allowed them too many attempts at our goal!

With some lucky blah-blah, we might have secured more than a point And with a little bit of luck, they would not have scored at all...

Hmm, we got a point! Hopefully well get more to fill positions we'll need filled before the transfer window smashes down...

What I did see of it was two teams equally matched with both of them clueless up front. Brentford you would expect to see near the bottom of the Premier League but for Everton just not acceptable.

Increasingly worried about Frank who may have a playing record to match the best but in managerial skills (selection, set-up, substitutions) could learn a lot from Mike Walker!

What should we do about it? Nothing. Kenwright will be told to do the dirty work if we are anywhere near the drop zone at Christmas.

I hope you're right. I fear I am though.

Not a word or comment when we were 1-up, also the comments that we'd get zero points from today, and now expecting no points from our next 2 games, so much for optimism.

Everybody has a right to raise an opinion but they have a responsibility to not post nonsense as many do.

I think we have still got a few square pegs, one being Mykolenko, playing as a wingback, another is playing without a centre-forward, and I would also prefer to see us change from playing three central defenders and two central midfielders, to the other way around.

I think McNeil would be better playing in front of a fullback, and although he might be better floating, I also think Gordon, or Gray, would also be better suited to playing with a fullback behind them.

I'm hoping Gueye, or Billy Gilmore, will come in this week to shore up our midfield and allow us to play with three in there,. I'm not sure if Coady can play in a back four, although I'm certain this is the system that will get the most out of Tarkowski?

I didn't even realize we had Liverpool next week, but maybe it's because this summer has sucked the Evertonian life out of me. I think we have got a big few days coming up now, it'll be intriguing to see what happens next.

For all his faults, Lampard obviously doesn't want to work with quite a few of this squad, and still needs some more and better players to work with.

The last thing we need to do is replace the tiny little glimmer of quality we have with three or four bums for £10-15 million. We're already loaded up with deadbeats, we don't need any more.

Anthony Gordon, for a man who is probably going to have big money move, was committed and you could see why he is attracting interest. Before today, I thought he was another of our vastly over-rated prospects like Sterling who does not always seem to be able to strike the ball cleanly and hard.

I hope Maupay turns out to be like the horrible nuisance that played against us and does not prove to be like David Speedie when he moved to Liverpool and leave those attributes admired most at his former club.

If the manager had had more effective options available on the bench to freshen up the attack after an hour or so this was a game we might well have won. Faced with little attacking threat to worry them Brentford could afford to push men high up the field thereby increasing the pressure on the back line in the latter stages of the game.

Notwithstanding the paucity of options available to him, I felt Frank might have used his substitutes earlier. McNeil ought to have been withdrawn for Davies halfway through the second half. An extra pair of legs to share the workload in midfield perhaps would have helped Onana and Iwobi gain control when possession was constantly being lost from long clearances up to fatigued and outmuscled front players.

With eight of the squad having joined since January we are in a period of transition with younger players requiring time to settle in and a manager still embedding his preferred system. Two draws and two defeats is not a great start but I think results will improve in the coming weeks.

Your comments are an extremely objective assessment of the minority to which you refer.

The club is in an extremely precarious situation and surely encouragement of the playing squad and management is a prerequisite if another relegation battle is to be avoided

"everybody's entitled to their opinion. but if it doesn't accord with mine I'll whinge about it endlessly and accompany said whinging with my one-eyed definition of a supporter"

That's all he ever bloody well posts. Change the bloody record.

If Everton had hit the woodwork as often as Brentford did, I would be unhappy, but as it was them, I will say it was poor shooting, if you miss an opening 3 m wide and 2 m high.

I don't know when the last time was we had a goal scored from a corner but I still don't understand why a player is not on the post.

It's disappointing losing today but we have a new center-back pairing and defensive formation that will take a while to gel, if this is the formation that the manager wants.

It will be interesting to see what happens before the end of the season, but I still believe that Gordon will stay, they will improve the midfield defensively, and bring in a backup striker that can operate on the wing, similar to Richarlison.

Another hard one on Tuesday.

I do however reserve the right to comment on an Everton performance including team selection and tactics without being rubbished by fellow supporters.

Like many others, I am disgusted that a club like Everton finds itself in this position and Frank Lampard has my backing but, if I disagree with his team selection and/or tactics, I will say so – just as I would say it to his face.

It is more disgraceful for fellow supporters to call the likes of me non-supporters or kopites just for posting a view that does not fit their agenda.

Too late with the subs and far too long actually making them. NASA give their astronauts less instructions.

First half was okay. I don't like Pickford's long ball kick-outs. It seems to me an attempt to shore up a weak press. Even with a centre-forward, I doubt it would work.

Tactically, most of the second half was crying out for change. What was the point of the late substitutions?

The five at the back is a result of the backline being pushed back as there is no attempt to change tactics to relieve pressure on the forwards and midfield.

Totally agree.

There should have been some changes to help us cope with that, fresh legs, a slight change in formation to get some more control of midfield. We may still have conceded, who knows, but being a bit more proactive could've bagged us a win.

Even though it feels like a defeat, we can't get too down about it. There were some positives at times in the first half and Onana's run and superb pass in the second would have been dispatched by a natural striker.

Look how Haaland took his third goal, never in doubt from a similar but tougher position. That's the difference of not having a quality goalscorer. You forfeit points.

With the new signings that must be brought in, we will gradually improve.

It may get more messy in the coming weeks and I'm sure most fans will hold their nerve at the games, if not on here. Not sureMoshiri will though. We really need Maupay to hit the ground running and whoever else we get.

No matter if he doesn't have the right guys, but fresh legs are fresh legs! That's how Brentford outplayed us, in the end.

Frank talking about holding out post-match, what game was he watching? We were a shambles at the back.

McNeil has nice control and can turn a player to create space but seems to lack that final decision-making. Hopefully he improves that aspect of his game; otherwise, he'll be warming the bench.

Worst part of our display was the way we retreated and gave so much space to Barcelona, er, I mean Brentford. We allowed them to dominate us in the second half and that has to change against teams like that or we'll end up with 10 points at Christmas, if we are lucky.

Positives were Onana and Gordon and, with a bit more composure, I would have put Gray in there.

Tough game at Leeds but it's one that is in the winnable column.

Paterson was at fault against Forest too. Pickford seems in a manic spell.

Tarkowski seems to have struggled since Coady came. Maybe too many chiefs? Or being on the left?

Hopefully those two can forge a better partnership and Coleman can come back until Patterson gets up to speed.

The prior games, the defense was better than last season but today seemed to fall apart

His only way was the Chelsea way.

I've heard enough bullshit. Fuck off, Lampard.

I get your frustration because we've been tortured for two decades now.

In defense of Frank Lampard, he is still learning how to be a manager and this is a tough gig. He is also severely hamstrung by the people who run the club and it's they who need to fuck off to give us all a break and a clean start.

We really need to be patient with this new management team but it's not going to be easy. Yesterday was poor against very beatable opposition, yet we look short in midfield because we have new players in and our old ones are not good enough.

Not playing with a striker is negligent but, in between all of that, it's the owner and board who have left the new manager with just enough money to go scraping around looking for what quality is left out there with the few pennies they can give him. Any manager would struggle at this dysfunctional club.

I am hopeful he can turn us around on the pitch and as a club but working with Kenwright in your ear can't be easy.

Only for the post and worse finishing than us, we sneaked a point. Early days but Frank seems to be tactically following in the footsteps of our previous managers. And we all know where that ends...

We dominated the first 45 (besides the few times our own woodwork was rattled). Our passing has quickened, so has our pressing. Each of the new players had some moments of brilliance (yes, I'm including McNeil), and if we had an actual striker, I feel there was a second goal in us.

The negatives are that we don't have squad depth at the moment. You could see the players were tiring from the pressing game at the 65-minute mark but, with no-one able to come on and inject energy, there's nothing Lampard can really do.

Our bench was awful and it showed. Once we get Calvert-Lewin back, that puts two energy players in Maupay and McNeil on the bench to come on late and cause havoc.

With so many new players, it's going to take time for them all to gel, but I like a lot of what I saw and am willing to stay positive for the moment.

That was an unreasonable post to Colin Glasser. I know Colin can stand up for himself, but I too was unable to follow the game and therefore will not comment on it; so your comment applies to me as well.

Living in New Zealand and being a pensioner, I do not have access to much English Football news and so rely mainly on ToffeeWeb, Sky Sport , and BBC Sport.

From what I read, no way would I try to make an informed comment on a game I didn't see. For instance, on this very thread, Michael Kenrick stated that Tarkowski made the assist for Gordon's goal and many posters claimed that Tarkowski had a poor game.

Yet on both Sky and BBC I am informed that Coady made the assist - and Sky said that Tarkowski was the Man of the Match! There were other differences too, so how can you make an informed comment on what you read?

You can only comment on what you see yourself and even then it is just an opinion.

Sorry Kieran, you are one of my favourite posters but your comment to Colin was out of order – but as Dick Emery used to say... "But I Like You!"

General consensus is that we continue to look to be slowly improving. (I'm still not using the league table as a gauge right now, Michael!!)

To that end, I liked John Rafterty's balanced view @514. Admittedly, because it resonates with mine. But I do genuinely enjoy reading the views of others even when I don't agree with them. They give me food for thought as I consider myself open-minded.

Like many have said, if this discussion was being had in person over a drink I doubt some of the way the written word is interpreted would be taken the same way.

My son managed to watch some of it and concurred with the points about Onana impressing. Hopefully with increased game time, he's going to come good. Manage him and be patient with him.

The striker issue is the blatantly obvious issue and the do we or don't we stick with 3 at the back is another. If we do, Mykolenko on the left with Tarkowski on the right?

It's a point we didn't get at that ground last season and a low point. Like many, I saw the despair in the fans and anger at the end. From what I'm reading and hearing, that wasn't the case yesterday despite the disappointment of dropping 2 points in the closing minutes.

We were dead certs to lose against Forest for some. Similarly yesterday for a few. Didn't happen. Leeds on Tuesday is winnable – a win is coming.

As for Liverpool next Sunday, that's going to be a 7:30 am kick-off for me. I usually like a drink when following or watching Everton. I guess with it being a church day, if it's good enough for Jesus and a Priest, I can break the rules and claim I'm still on UK time.

I'll probably need to in order to help with the celebrations.

I know that Frank is persisting with a particular system and bringing in suitable players that are robust and have the necessary skills for that system, but there are two problems.

Firstly, the pressing ability of the team and secondly the inability to change formation.

Somehow, long-ball kick-outs and 5 at the back is thought of as necessary to deal with pressure. Without any addressing of any pressure on forwards and midfield.

“I'm almost starting to wonder if Frank remembers himself to be so tireless that he never needed any rest between games at all... ;P”

I think Lampard was used to playing at least twice a week, every week, and winning loads of trophies at the same time! Perhaps he feels the same way I do, that the more you play, the fitter you get, and that all the whinging about too many games is a load of old bollocks! ;-)

Specialist training for next week – don't leave the back post unmarked.

Onana is awesome and will get better and better. Not sure we need to do the Gueye deal now and Alex Iwobi is transformed since Frank's arrival and a pleasure to watch now.

We need a back-up to Calvert-Lewin asap. Antony Gordon superb yesterday and I loved how coolly he took his goal.

I'll never be a fan of 5 at the back unless we win a trophy playing that way, our midfield always looks to be a man short.

Reckon we will get at least a point at Leeds, not looking ahead any further than that…

"Eddie Dunn #324/333

Your only post at 16:45, after they score, dreadful display, and Lampard out, pathetic.

Mike Gaynes is spot on, some people wait until we concede, before they make a comment.

Disappointed to concede so late, but would have taken a point from the off, considering they're last home game was 4-0 against Man Utd."

Wrong! Scroll back to around 35. You will see that I was pissed-off at Lampard's selection and five at the back again. I will continue to point the finger at Frank if I so wish. It's not me being negative – look at his record since he has been here. It's terrible.

The team play some pretty football at times, for sure... but he took off Onana when he should have taken off McNeil. He should have put Davies and Onana in the middle together. He should also have started with Rondon.

The defenders that we have are playing like gormless idiots. They have no cover in front of them and are playing far too deep. This is all down to the selection, and Frank is selecting. He has had loads of time, lots of chances. He is poor at his job.

We will go down this season if he continues in the post.

Mykolenko also doesn't look like a natural wingback, but could possibly play inside in a similar way that the player the Chelsea fans call Dave, has adapted, but I don't think that our back three have looked comfortable defensively, since Conor Coady has come into the team.

I think it's going to be a massive week in the transfer window. We definitely still need players, and I also think this will determine if we are going to struggle massively again, or suddenly begin to improve.🤞

Yesterday we were lucky to come away with a point. The formation is not suitable at the back. Mistakes happen due to players not comfortable for that role. Please sort this out Frank or move on. Relegation battle from August!

On one hand, I do feel there are some green shoots of optimism (certainly when you compare yesterday to our last match away vs Brentford). We are possibly just two new players (Gueye and Broja) and a fit Calvert-Lewin (back to training this week) away from having a relatively competitive team.

On the other hand, it looks horribly plausible that we may have 3 or so points after 7 games and there are clearly issues both old and new to resolve in this team.

Both the optimists and the pessimists have a solid case, I'd say. On balance ,I'd say it's still early days, let's see who comes in this week and what the team can manage in this tough little run we have coming.

Worth remembering that Newcastle didn't get their first win last season till they edged Burnley on the 4th December in their 15th match. And they ended up 7 points off Europe.

Not suggesting we should try and emulate that but, with Lampard implementing a new system and the board being perenially slow in delivering targets, this season was always likely to start slowly for us.

You can't put all the blame on Lampard – more the ineptitude of a dithering board and owner. Taking so long to get players in has been horrendous at best.

The sooner the new stadium is built and Moshiri sells up, the better. But we may have lost our Premier League status by then. All ifs and buts but a very real and scary possibility. What a shambles.

Regardless of who we bring in this week, we are going to struggle to stay in the Premier League. It seems inevitable to me looking at the fixture list that Frank will go this side of Christmas.

On the plus side, if well drilled, the squad that's left is absolutely capable of avoiding relegation.

The main thing is organising the 3 centre-halves. That will, I expect, be a problem all season. We seem to have lots of fairly average centre-backs but not convinced we've bought anyone as good as Mina when fit – and he's not exactly Rio Ferdinand.

Anyway, once the strikers get going, we should pick up points for a mid-table finish.

We don't have outstanding players.

Brentford should have beaten us.

I think you have hit the nail on the head over three centre-halves. From what I have seen, Tarkowski has regressed since being moved out of the middle on to the left. I think the powers that be have made a big mistake putting the left-footed and quick Branthwaite out on loan. No use crying over spilt milk.

As far as I can see, the manager is going to play 3 centre halves so, as many posters have suggested the answer looks to me, to be to move the left-footed Mykolenko into the left centre-back position and playing Vinagre, who is a left-footed wingback, as the left-back or whatever you call it these days.

Pickford
Patterson, Tarkowski, Coady, Mykolenko, Vinagre
Gordon, Iwobi, Gray
Maupay, Rondon (or Calvert-Lewin when he is available)

I think we may move to a back four when we bring in another midfielder (Gueye or similar), but not before. Lampard tried 4-3-3 when he came in and we got mullered. He can also only play a back four when Mina is fit to partner Tarkowski.

Alternatively, he might default to a proper 3-5-2 as you say. Currently, Patterson looks more comfortable as a wing-back and Mykolenko as a full-back.

Tarkowski looks comfortable in the middle of a back three and lost on the left, while Coady prefers a back three and Holgate does well on the right side of a three but not in a back four.

At the time when he played a back four, Lampard was called naive but I assume his sin for some now is to be over-pragmatic? That is despite the team lacking a single fit and experienced forward.

The trials of being a manager.

I don't think you can reasonably describe Branthwaite as quick! We really needed to keep one of Holgate or Godfrey fit as they are relatively pacey.

And both are crocked. We are just too quick to loan out good players knowing our injury pattern. Branthwaite or Keane, eh! Rondon or Simms. Onyango or McNeil, for that matter.

Just saying, sometimes you've got to be brave with the youth.

We've gone 27 years without a trophy, but the plus side is that we have got a squad that could easily avoid relegation. That shows me how easy it was for the charlatan to lower expectations and yet still make an absolute fortune out of Everton Football Club.

Maybe Lampard doesn't want to be on a road to nowhere? Is the only plus side I might be able to take but, until the club gets new owners, that's exactly where we are heading. I'm aware that the new ground should also be taken as a massive positive, or another of those on the plus sides, maybe?

This season is different. Will there be an international break? And there is a break in November for the World Cup.

It really depends this week, since new players will buy time as they settle in. Also, with new introductions, it makes it harder for opposition teams to get a fix on Everton's play.

Frank has had a measure of luck so far and fan expectations are at the lowest I can remember. One win, deserving or not, can put Everton mid-table.

In a normal season, I would say you are right. The pressure will be after the World Cup. You also have the January Transfer Window to fog things up as well.

Like Tony, I absolutely feel, as an Everton Supporter from the 1960s, we are being forced to accept serial under-performance and survival objectives which were previously spun as ambition, but which are now being peddled to us barefaced.

We are staring at a relegation fight already in fucking august.

Playing 5 at the back and some of them out of position stinks of desperation and fear.

Yesterday, we had Rondon on the bench. We all know he's crap but he would have given something to think about instead of them being able to run at us in numbers.

It's a sad day when our manager thinks a draw at Brentford is a decent result. Instead of wasting £15 to 20 million on McNeil, we should have brought in a centre-forward. Starting a season dropping 10 points like we have against average opposition is crazy.

It's not all Franks's fault. He's dealing with 2 Snake Oil Salesmen upstairs. But Frank sets us up all wrong and it may be the sword that he falls on. I don't necessarily want him sacked but he needs to grow a pair and stop talking shite to his media buddies.

It's with a heavy heart that I agree with you but sometimes the stars are aligned and he has I think top-notch backroom staff to help him because their standards are so different to ours.

With this reset, we have to grow with a young manager who, as we know, makes rick after rick, especially his subs and his insistence on the balance of the back 4 or 5. Stick with him and sometimes life and football stumble onto a winning formula.

As one of the pessimists, I'm not sure we have much option but to sit tight and hope anyway.

I don't think we were lucky. Brentford squandered their chances thorough their own profligacy. We were not unlucky either. We had chances to put this to bed.

I'm still trying to understand why Gray came back to beat his man again after out-pacing him to race clear into the box for a one-on-one with the keeper. Fucking frustrating.

Positives? There were a couple. It was particularly pleasing to see the boy who can't shoot or score goals make the keeper work 2-3 times with shots from in and around the box – again.

The VAR relieved him of his goal at Villa, but he timed his run to perfection this time and finished decisively. Shove your £60M where the sun don't shine, Chelsea!

Couldn't be bothered to watch live if I'm being honest, made the decision not to as long as we're playing 5-5-0. Performance is irrelevant if we haven't got a striker. Can't really build any proper playing style. The first four games have basically been a write-off this season.

Early days but 10% of the season is now gone and we're averaging 0.5 points per game. Something needs to change fast. If Maupay and any other signings don't hit the ground running, Lampard will be gone in October, is my prediction.

This is beginning to remind me of the 2004-05 season where we only got 3 points from our opening 8 games – at least that time we had a reason after the Champions League knockout took the stuffing out of the players.

We really need the ball to stick up front, and we could do with someone who can dictate play, put their foot on the ball, and pick a pass. Who that is, god only knows... but we've got zero creativity at times.

We've had terrible luck with injuries to our defence so I've got a bit of sympathy with Lampard. Don't forget, this defence is brand new and will take time to gel.

This week, we need to get more goals into the team, a midfielder who can chip in, and definitely another forward. UTFT

I'm with you for the most part. I don't have much faith in Clement – he's a dour negative type. As for Cole, the jury is out.

I hope Lampard succeeds because we need to stop this tipsy-turbo roller-coaster ride we are on. Though I guess we won't push on until we get rid of the Snake Oil Salesmen.

We have young lads at full-back, 2 new centre-backs, a young new modern midfielder, and now a new striker. That's 6 new or young players to introduce and play them in a format that suits. A good percentage of the dross from the last 6 years have gone also.

There are 3 teams that have already lost more games than Everton, and 6 lost as many. Shall we assume they are all going to be relegated then?

Take a look at the table – our goals for is bad (no shit, Sherlock! no striker) but our goals against is not awful – 5 in 4 games, so if you want to do predictions that's about 50 in a season – nearly 20 better than last season already.

Once our 2 strikers start scoring, it will create more opportunities for our midfielders to score also, because teams will concentrate on our strikers instead.

Jesus, have a bit of patience, back the manager, he needs it and will appreciate it loads.

Yes, a lively match but I think Brentford really should have won by 2 or 3. Poor finishing and some bad luck with the woodwork... but we've all been there.

I actually thought that, for the first 25 minutes, Everton were playing well, moving it around with confidence and creating one or two chances. Then Gordon scored his well-taken goal and Everton seemed to go rather negative and unadventurous. This invited the Bees on to them and Pickford's goal led a charmed life.

Second half... same again. I think Brentford's subs made a big impact and a goal seemed inevitable given the amount of pressure. Both sides might think it 2 points dropped.

If Everton stick to playing football, they will be fine;, plenty of good players but, if they play as they did for the last 60 minutes, it might be a struggle.

Re Pickford: Why does such a good keeper feel he has to behave as he does?Tiresome is an understatement.

Finally, your travelling support was excellent, always behind the team.

Best of luck for the rest of the season.

I agree, we played well up until the opening goal but, after that, we did lead a Charmed Life. Always disappointing to lose a lead late in the game, though.

Good luck to you and Brentford for the season, mate.

How else could we have stuck with them all these barren years and watched all manner of bums put on the Royal Blue?

Yes, the defensive quality is still suspect and maybe they have been lucky only to have conceded 5 goals in 5 games (including Fleetwood) but they are a work in progress with all the new guys and not forgetting the injuries.

On the flip-side, I saw some good stuff yesterday on offence, particularly in the first half, and I was impressed with Onana and Iwobi.

Okay, the Bees could also have scored one or two and it's arguable that Frank's substitutions may have been off but it was a game they were 6 minutes away from winning.

I think that our fortunes may be changing with Maupay to show his worth, and provided that no more players get injured.

You sum up the game like the majority of Blues. Brentford, through poor finishing, failed to capitalise on the chances they created.

As you rightly point out, we became less adventurous as the game progressed and, in the end, there was only one team going to score — and it wasn't us.

Best of luck for the new season and how refreshing it is to hear from an opposition fan. I think it's always good to hear how opposition fans view the game.

Just a pity we haven't got a team to match our world-class supporters.

Well Calvert-Lewin reckons he is:-

Dominic Calvert-Lewin hails Jarrad Branthwaite's speed at Everton

However, I agree with you about Godfrey – he is the fastest player we have.

We stayed schtum (though inside I had a little hum).

Because I believe that anything can happen in a game of football, I have now adopted a 'Hopeful' outlook, and somehow victory tastes a little sweeter, and defeat doesn't hurt as much as it used to.

I'm no saint but I can claim that I've never slated an Everton player. Like everyone else, I feel joy or disappointment, and it's my belief that we win or lose as a team. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, and all I will say is "It suits me".

It doesn't matter if Onana becomes a world beater, we just can't compete with only him and Iwobi in midfield, supported occasionally by two wingbacks who, when they go forward, leave huge gaps at the back, which will always be exploited by decent sides. Even Brentford yesterday ripped us apart on counter attack, primarly on Patterson's side as he pushed forward.

We need a true good No6 who covers left, right, centre whenever we spring foward. Neither Onana, Davies, Doucoure, can do it adequately and both Allan and Gomes have had their chances and failed big time.

Going to a 4-3-3 will give Lampard a headache, particularly in the two centre-half choices, but also who loses out upfront. I can only see Calvert-Lewin as a cert and then supported by one of "our" new frontmen – Maupay, Diaz, Broja??? – leaving one place left, Gordon, Gray, McNeil?? who knows.

But to get to this position of having choices all over, is a dream only at the moment.

Looking at our 5 games so far this season, I just can't see us getting to a mid-table safeness, never mind a Top 10 target. We desperately need far more quality in midfield and upfront.

I'd even go as far to say that selling Gordon and obtaining Gallacher and Broja in return, and then throwing in the separate purchase of Gueye, would leave us with a far more balanced squad.

Tell Gordon he's being sold to give his beloved Everton a chance to turn the disastrous riptide we've been in for last 20 years.

Spot on. Until such time, 4-5-1, that includes playing Allan. Davies or Allan is a no-brainer.

One big negative for me is, when I see Paul Clement giving out instructions on the byline. Gets me thinking: Who is running this miserable show?

I'm in my mid-70s but can't find it in me to be calm. I get infuriated by our team (and especially by those in the Boardroom) time after time after time. Too late to change now.

I also lose sight too easily of the fact that everyone on here is a proper Blue, without exception.

Things may yet turn out well for us. Let us pray to the God of Surprises.

On the other side, I agree that Vinagre should be selected with Mykolenko moving inside. I'd also consider a spot for Coleman who looked sharp the other night, albeit against Fleetwood. I think Seamus could prove a bonus in that sort of role, even if it's a more occasional thing.

I was being sarcastic and trying to highlight the point with all the conflicting views on here that it's impossible to know how the game went if (like me) you couldn't watch it.

Decent first half but overun in the second half.

Still need more players but unlucky with injuries again

All I know is we need points and I couldn't care less about performances. Wins bring confidence and performances improve.

Some people will say we were awfull yesterday and have no hope this season. Others will say good first half, we are 2 players away from Top 10. Reality is we are probably somewhere in the middle.

Imo, there are good players in this squad. There are players that are going to get better. There are players that are settling. What Frank has to do is get a system going that both defenders are happy playing and attackers are happy too.

At the moment, the defence looks shaky with gaps all over, which can be expected with what is basically 5 people who have played a few matches together, however they don't look comfortable playing this way.

Up front, they are being asked to play in unfamiliar positions albeit because we have no striker but they are not comfortable.

We have defenders being asked to play on the wing and wingers being asked to play up front. I hope the inclusion of Maupay and or the return of Calvert-Lewin changes things in Frank's mind that we can be braver and try to win games by being offensive – not nicking one and sitting back.

No Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin injury-prone, bought striker who doesn't score enough goals, and of course a seemingly clueless Thatcher-like manager.

If we had points on the board now before the harder games as a cushion, I would be more confident, but we have failed to do that and, unless we get 3 poins against Leeds, I can't see anything gained from Liverpool and Arsenal. I hope God is a blue.

I hope we get Gueye and an attacking midfielder before Thursday. Hopefully Frank can feel confident to change the system to 3 in midfield.

My reservation with 5 at the back, Tarkowski is a lot more comfortable in a back 4, Mykolenko is a lot more solid as a left back, and Patterson has repeatedly being caught out, too far forward, the balance isn't right, and we're on the back foot also.

If Gueye comes in, Frank can afford to play a more offensive formation.

We still need 36 to 40 points and, if we still have striker issues after the window closes, we won't get enough points.

Our players don't have the tactical nouse to play it. (I don't want him gone) but I think he will be sacked if we are still 17 come Xmas.

1. Pickford needs to start catching the ball,not punch it.
2. We need to scrap playing three at back,pronto.
3. Sack off zonal marking and go back to man to man.
4. Play a simple system like 4-4-2,after all,the REAL Boss used it,week in week out and we were very successful with it too.
5. Keep the back-passes to a bare minimum.
6. Don't sit too deep,as it only invites undue pressure.
7. Make Tarko the new Captain now.
8. Please sign two more Strikers and a attacking Midfielder by Thursday.
9. Start shooting from range,as other teams do.
10. Be much braver and take the game to the opposition...let them worry about us for a change!.

Frank is going to continue with the same system and fit the players that come into it.This is the system they practise on the training pitch and players selected and recruited are to fit into that system.The only possible change I can see is a Centre Forward starting.Both Chris Jones in charge of fitness and Frank explained this as the way that Everton would be prepared at the start of the season.

A perfect cross onto Harry Kane's head for the second goal, some excellent movement, and made a space for himself from which he was only denied by a superb save.

At one point Richarlison began a bit of keepy-uppy showboating and a Forest player just ran up and kicked him. Gobshite Carragher (that is his name isn't it?) thought that this was fine. But then I suppose if you were a shit player for a team noted for its ref-supported thuggery, skill would be something which would provoke you to violence. (And spitting at girls)

Arsenal 7-0 Everton

If that match hadn't been at Goodison we would have been relegated.

I said it before and will do so again, the fans more than Lampard ensured we stayed up.

Patterson and Mykolenko are very poor defenders never mind the currently misguided hope that they can maraud forward and supply any of our limp forwards. 4 at the back, a holding midfielder in front and some mobility and brains in the other 4 behind whoever is pretending to be a striker is the only way to move forward.

Thelwell and his philosophy is not suited to our personnel.

"Ooooh, a point at Brentford, good point."

Bog off. Who do you think Everton are these days? We are just as big as Brentford in footballing terms. We are miles away from ever getting into the Top 10 never mind Top 6.

We nearly got fucking relegated last season and this season we have sold our best player. You need to get real — Everton were once a great club; we are now just another team trying to stay in the money.

Pete @ 631, stop making so much sense.

"We nearly got fucking relegated last season and this season have sold our best player... Everton where once a great club; we are now just another team trying to stay in the money."

All of which says that a point at Brentford was a decent point. Unless you think we're a team bound for the Top 10.

You should have a pretty good rivalry for your new team with Could've Albion and Would've City. Both have huge followings from what I can ascertain.

Apparently we should've beaten Brentford away easily, despite them being a really well-coached side who hammered Man Utd in their last previous home game.

Bobby @ 632, you made your point well as far as I am concerned. Posters who are demanding Lampard be sacked are broadly the same lot who welcomed the hiring of Benitez. Who almost got us relegated.

Enough said.