The real problem is at the top

by   |   13/11/2022  141 Comments  [Jump to last]

This is a collection of posts that have appeared since the dismal double defeat to Bournemouth last week, espousing the theory that the real problem is at the very top of Everton Football Club – admittedly a perennially recurrent theme, although strangely it only gains momentum when we lose, but fades into the background during those all-too-rare good times when we fashion a win. 

Themes range from the incompetence of Farhad Moshiri as owner, and the seemingly immovable continuous presence of Bill Kenwright as Chairman overseeing years and years of painful decline, to the bizarrely constituted Board of Directors that appears now to be nothing more than a Management Committee of corporate executives who share a distinctive lack of professionalism and qualifications to perform their acquired roles.

The conversation develops towards rumours of takeover, which many would welcome as a way of refreshing the stagnant thinking and poorly implemented actions that have brought us to this point. 


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Reader Comments (141)

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Brian Wilkinson
1 Posted 14/11/2022 at 12:26:19
Lee, this has been going on since 2011 when Blue Union marched upon Goodison, 11 years ago… it has nothing at all to do with every time we have a couple of bad results.

Nothing has been mentioned until after the transfer window closed, and is only being mentioned now because we have a 6-week break to try and do something about it.

We have always said having a protest is not right on a matchday.

If you're sick of it, think how a lot feel, who have had to put up with over 20 years of the Chairman.

Anyone who has the backing for the chairman then that's down to each individual, but at the same time, so has the individuals who are sick and tired of our current board, and these next 6 weeks, where it will not affect the team, is the ideal opportunity to voice our opinion.

Those who back Bill, that's your choice, will get nothing but respect for your choice, but at the same time, respect should also be shown for those who have had enough, not just after a few bad results but well over 11 years.

As for who will we blame when Bill has gone, Derek, that's a long time off yet, he has more chance of remaining at our club up to his King's personal birthday card, than a cockroach surviving a nuclear blast.

Raymond Fox
2 Posted 14/11/2022 at 13:11:22
If you take any notice of betting odds, Forest, Bournemouth, Wolves and Southampton are rated more likely to be relegated than us!

I notice there's been no mention of our Director of Football, Kevin Thelwell – in the main probably because there has been some good signings made in defence. But, on the other hand, there has also been the obvious lack of quality signings up front.

Who is actually responsible for signings, the Director of Football, the manager, or the board, or all three? Where does the buck stop?

Bill Gall
3 Posted 14/11/2022 at 13:21:51

I fully agree with your position on Bill Kenwright. But who is responsible for that?

If you owned a company with 95% of the shares and you were aware of the downward position the club was going in, would you not, after changing numerous managers, look at upper management?

And that is why I believe it is Moshiri who is to blame for not solving the problem after firing different managers.

It may not be Kenwright but something is not right at the club and, as owner, he should be solving it.

Barry Hesketh
4 Posted 14/11/2022 at 13:26:55

I get your drift, as on this site and many others, there are a small minority of Evertonians who have an axe to grind with Bill Kenwright, and they often come to the fore when results on the pitch are poor.

However, this isn't new, it's been going on for over a decade if not longer – why should this be the case? I'd argue that Everton's performances on the pitch have been fairly poor for a large portion of Bill's tenure; even with good results, the football has often been nothing to write home about. The financial fortunes of the club haven't covered the leadership of the club in glory either.

How often should fans remain silent when this or that star player is sold to be replaced by a lesser player or, in some cases, not replaced at all? How many seasons should we endure a lack of goals in the team?
How many seasons should we accept that Everton FC will be unable to adequately compete, due to a lack of quality or a lack of players committed to the cause? How often should we have to concern ourselves with the possible relegation of our club to the Football League?

Of course the various managers and coaches, not to mention the players, have a huge responsibility and the tactics employed by many of the managers have been rightly questioned by fans, but the over-arching issue has been and remains the competence of the board and its leadership.

Whether a change in that area will bring about an upturn in fortunes on the pitch is open to debate, but after 10 – or perhaps even 20 years of mostly failure, surely it could be argued that a change in that area of the club is long overdue?

I do think the football management side by various managers has been woeful, and nobody has managed to create a true team spirit within the camp, regardless of the personnel within the squad. Perhaps, that's just the nature of the beast these days as most professional players appear to be more interested in their own individual fortunes, rather than that of the club that employs them.

As fans we can only hope that things will improve, but they won't improve on their own and it's up to Bill Kenwright and the rest to ensure that standards are set and met. But those standards have to align with the fans' ideas of what an Everton team should look like. I'm not certain that has been the case for far too long and that's one of the reasons that I believe Bill has to step down for the good of Everton Football Club and its supporters.

Bill doesn't make saves, he doesn't score goals, he doesn't even win tackles – actually, he should allocate himself a squad number given those attributes – but what he is supposed to be is an Evertonian and how he can bear watching the decline of his club perplexes me, whether, he has had a hand in that decline or not.

No amount of demonstrations will remove any member of the board if that member wants to remain in place. We can scream and shout and stamp our feet but, until the likes of Bill realise that they are and have been contributing to the cycle of decline, then, unfortunately, we are stuck with the current board unless and until the club finds itself with new ownership.

Brian Murray
5 Posted 14/11/2022 at 13:36:06

No-one has an axe to grind with him. I don't know the fella personally, it's the catalogue of decisions he's made for decades with not one about the well-being of the club.

His stipulation (which is no secret) that he remains as chairman when he was approached by the likes of sheikh Mansoor is disgusting. These are not opinions but fact. All he's interested in is A big day out at the opening of the new Everton Stadium – no matter what league we are playing in.

Get it in your deluded head that he adores your tunnel ignorance which gives him more oxygen until a slight upturn in team results and it all goes quiet for him again, Wake up and demand better.

Barry Hesketh
6 Posted 14/11/2022 at 13:44:45

Get it in your deluded head that he adores your tunnel ignorance which gives him more oxygen until a slight upturn in team results and it all goes quiet for him again, Wake up and demand better.

If that comment was aimed at my post, I think you should, if you haven't already, read the full post. I am saying similar to you but trying to be as diplomatic as possible in the way I've stated it.

I'm actually furious as to the state of the club and its performances on the field, and have been since at least 2012, perhaps since 2002, but I also know that pitchforks and torches won't work because, if nothing else, Mr Kenwright has the hide of a Rhino and he will only be removed of his own volition — or by God's will.

Dave Abrahams
7 Posted 14/11/2022 at 13:56:37

Yes, I think the owner should have replaced Kenwright the day after he took possession of the club, which was when he had the majority of shares.

It seems amazing to me that Kenwright bought the club originally owning a very small amount of shares and then there is a history of how he acquired the rest of his shares, enough for him to amass an enormous profit when he finally sold them.

I have always believed that Mr Moshiri was the messenger for Mr Usmanov who stayed in the background but was the real money man behind the buying of Everton, certainly when he realised there was no way he could buy Arsenal.

The war in Ukraine has put an end to his involvement with Everton. Maybe it can be revived when this war is over and all the Russian money that has been in England and London for donkey's years will be allowed to flourish again… we can dream!!

Certainly Kenwright has looked after his own interests very well since he took over Everton, while Everton FC have sunk alarmingly over the same period, on and off the field.

We saw him fleetingly in those “Good times” but never in the many bad times. As Colin Fitzgerald described him, in that post that was shown yesterday, he is a complete phoney and was shown to be with the many examples that Colin illustrated.

Danny O’Neill
8 Posted 14/11/2022 at 14:05:44
That's when it should have happened, Dave Abrahams, at the very least. Moshiri should have brought in his own people, competent inrunning a modern football club. Not left Steptoe and Son in charge.

Apologising for the countless time. Still raw and feeling Everton pain. At least I've got several weeks to recover and regroup.

Brian Wilkinson
9 Posted 14/11/2022 at 14:20:19
Not sure if there are any shareholders on here, but if so, they were denied an Annual General Meeting from 2007 right up to 2014 with Bill scrapping them due to fans' questions at the meetings.

They were reinstated again but talk now of scraping them again and instead having a Fans Advisory Board they can talk to instead.

Jay Harris
10 Posted 14/11/2022 at 14:24:34
Barry is right. No matter what our thoughts are on Kenwright and the Board, nothing will change. Moshiri has totally lost interest apart from trying not to lose his shirt and joins the ranks of many who have been conned by Kenwright.

We showed as supporters last season that we can win points for the team and I believe this is the only way forward with hopefully a decent window and the return of Calvert-Lewin in January.

I say this because I live in hope that Moshiri will find a buyer who will complete the "Strategic Review" and come to the same conclusion as us that Everton FC deserves a much better Board of Directors than Bullshit Bill and his acolytes but, in the meantime, we must ensure Premier League survival.

Bill Gall
11 Posted 14/11/2022 at 14:34:48

Sorry, I don't believe Kenwright was in any position to demand terms to someone who wished to become owner of Everton by becoming the major shareholder.

In 2016, Kenwright was the owner with 26% of shares, that made him the major shareholder. All anyone had to do to become the major shareholder was buy more than 26% of the shares, and at that time Robert Earl had 24% that Moshiri bought (price was unknown) and also Jon Wood had 19%. That would have given Moshiri or anyone else who wanted to become the major shareholder 43% of shares to become the majority shareholder.

Kenwright did sell some of his shares to Moshiri but not all of them. Others who sold shares were Arthur Abercrombie, and the bulk of Lord Granchester.

As I stated before that it may not be Kenwright but something is not right at the club and Moshiri as owner, after going through numerous managers, should be finding out where the problem is and doing something about it.

As for the sheikh, he came over looking to buy a football club, what one would you have bought?

(a) A club with a 100-year-old stadium needing repairs and no room to expand; or
(b) a club with a new ground and room for expansion.

As I keep saying, I believe Kenwright should be removed but I blame Moshiri as owner for not doing it.

Brian Murray
12 Posted 14/11/2022 at 16:13:59

Pitchforks, as you call it, worked perfectly well and saved them shower at Anfield when they were on their knees... now look at them.

So yes, it can work if we rid ourselves of apologists talking about the last 6 years — it's three, yes, three friggin decades!!!

Darren Hind
13 Posted 14/11/2022 at 19:13:49

Hang in there. Chrimbo may just be coming a bit early this year.

Rob Halligan
14 Posted 14/11/2022 at 19:45:41
Darren, have you heard something akin to what Tony Abrahams has posted on the Blue Till We Die thread?
Dale Self
15 Posted 14/11/2022 at 20:02:42
Good work, Rob, that caught my eye as well.
Neil Copeland
16 Posted 14/11/2022 at 20:09:29
Darren and Tony A have started something now. I am already preparing to say my prayers before bed tonight...
Rob Halligan
17 Posted 14/11/2022 at 20:25:12
FFS Dale, I'm checking out every news outlet now, trying to find something.

So far I've seen we're getting Jadon Sancho on loan from Man Utd and Vitor Pereira is being lined up again after he was sacked from his club in Brazil.

Neil Copeland
18 Posted 14/11/2022 at 20:32:41
Rob, ha ha, I have just been doing similar after typing in BK rumours!
Tony Abrahams
19 Posted 14/11/2022 at 20:43:00
I don't expect we will hear anything for a couple of weeks, Rob, and that's if there is anything to hear, mate. 👍
Neil Copeland
20 Posted 14/11/2022 at 20:52:17
Tony, that's okay, I can handle a couple of weeks of praying.

Small price to pay when you go through everything that we do as Evertonians.

Michael Kenrick
21 Posted 14/11/2022 at 20:52:50

Some interesting numbers you are listing there. The ones I have are similar... that is until we get to Kenwright selling his shares for £175M.

That seems way too high to me. I think it's closer to £36M – still one helluva hefty wedge!

I'd be very curious to know where you got that figure from?

Rob Halligan
22 Posted 14/11/2022 at 20:56:23
Tony, I’m sure there’s cryptic clues in your posts.
Tony Abrahams
23 Posted 14/11/2022 at 21:11:17
No real clues, Rob. I just heard rumours of a takeover, but with nothing in, or expected in the news for a couple of weeks at least, I've just gone back to dreaming. I thought after the week us Evertonian's have had, I'd try and help a few more have some nice thoughts!

Out of all the things that Bill Kenwright has done at Everton, selling two training grounds, and choosing to rent one at a massive cost to the club, is something that will forever make me feel sick. He hocked us up to the hills, but made sure he made an absolute fortune for himself. That's some Evertonian, that! 🤑

Don Alexander
24 Posted 14/11/2022 at 21:30:46
Brian, just read the clip you enclosed from Newcastle United fans.

Thanks for including it because I can now identify at least one other useless, smug, greedy, self-serving, lying bastard of an owner of a failing club who, according to Kenwright, must surely have used to phone him up for advice on how to "get it right".

Step forward Mike Ashley, the horrible disciple of our very own Judas!

Ian Riley
25 Posted 14/11/2022 at 22:50:42
The reality is dealing with matters on the pitch. Relegation cannot happen. An experienced manager to keep us up is required. Simply we are more attractive with a new stadium and a Premier League flag above it for new owners.

Mr Kenwright is going nowhere so pointless wasted energy discussing it. Frank must be set free! See the bigger picture! Players aren't doing their job for whatever reason. The slide from last season is continuing. If we don't hit the ground running from 26 December, then when does Frank go?

I'm more concerned than ever about relegation in all the years supporting this club. Statistically from last season and points tally this, indicates relegation is coming. Hopefully someone around the table is seeing this!

Don Alexander
26 Posted 14/11/2022 at 23:05:59

So effectively you'd once again entirely emulate the hugely ineffective, worsening by the season, massively expensive serial cock-ups implemented by Mr Kenwright (and please tell you were being sardonic in terming him that) and the oligarch puppet subjecting us to him would you?

Nick Page
27 Posted 14/11/2022 at 23:11:21
The Kenwrights have been busy popping up on message boards again I see. Most of them are called Ian, weirdly.
Brian Murray
28 Posted 15/11/2022 at 05:47:45
Ian Riley.

Wouldn't it have been magical if the Kopites had that defeatist shrug of shoulders that is the usual Everton fan response when the two Yanks nearly destroyed them?

It can and should be the first priority — never mind the manager.

Darren Hind
29 Posted 15/11/2022 at 05:58:08

As you know, this city is one huge conveyor belt for rumour. Half a million trained ears reside here and they can dismiss a rumour as 'shite' in a heartbeat, but as you also know, these rumours often have legs and are miles ahead of the newspapers.

In town yesterday, among people who take this club very seriously, I heard the same things as Tony seems to have been hearing. I didn't hear the word 'shite' once.

I don't want to put too much up here for fear of raising hope and making a complete Cheshire cat of myself in the process. But, like Neil, I too had the prayer mat out last night.

Brian Murray
30 Posted 15/11/2022 at 06:12:06
Rob, amen to that brother
Danny O’Neill
31 Posted 15/11/2022 at 06:26:48
Darren. Please. Today has now just got longer!!!
Jim Lloyd
32 Posted 15/11/2022 at 07:19:47
Darren, Tony,

If there's anything in the "rumours" you mention, I don't want to get my hopes up... but too late! I won't smile too much, but at least my scowl's going.

I think a takeover or buy-in, is a matter of time. I just hope it gets rid of Mr Kenwright and gives our club a chance to rise again.

Derek Knox
33 Posted 15/11/2022 at 07:20:42

You didn't hear the word 'shite' once! At least you were drinking in Blue pubs with no representatives of Mordor there then. I know Liverpool too, as well, and as you so rightly say, there is often some substance to rumours going round, but also there are Chinese Whispers, where the communication of such rumours get slightly embellished, or lose the initial thread.

Having said that, we have suffered long enough as loyal Blues, mostly at the behest of that despicable twat Kenwright, who has prevaricated more than Pinocchio, and there has been no Jiminy Cricket on his shoulder. Let's just hope your prayer mat was facing in the right direction when you supplicated to the Blue Football Gods.

Tony Abrahams
34 Posted 15/11/2022 at 07:43:14
Getting Kenwright out of the premises (hopefully kicking and screaming) will be a whole lot easier than getting him out of our football club, Jim.

I'm glad your scowl is going, mate, but for me, I have nothing but complete disdain for the man. It borders on a 20-year prison sentence if I'm being completely honest, but he's already taken away around 23 years of real Evertonian life (competing to win).

Hopefully, when we get to Bramley-Moore Dock, this man's curse will be nowhere near our new home… Please, please, please, please, please.

Tony Abrahams
35 Posted 15/11/2022 at 07:47:41
I never heard about any of these rumours in a pub, Derek!
Jim Lloyd
36 Posted 15/11/2022 at 08:08:49
Absolutely agree, Tony. I think this man has "guided" Everton Football Club from being a power in football to the verge of ruination, and a bit of a laughing stock. I saw a great side in the sixties, another great side in the eighties.

But since this cowboy's been the Chairman, I've seen us travelling down a one-way street. King's Dock, Destination Kirkby, selling all our assets, and telling us Phillip Green was a friend of Everton!

Disdain is a good word, Tony.

Brian Murray
37 Posted 15/11/2022 at 08:08:49
How can a man have no conscience after dictating a way of life to a whole fanbase, because that's what he has done.

Back in the day, some will remember Peter Swales of Man City. Also deluded but he loved the club but just wasn't very good at business and money decisions – just like this buffoon.

The difference is, if a Sheikh Mansoor type offered to buy the club, he would've gladly stepped aside knowing his time was up and he would think of the welfare of his club first before his ego.

Brian Murray
38 Posted 15/11/2022 at 11:14:38

Were you expecting Bill with his thumb out at The Rocket with his belongings on the end of a stick on the way back to the Smoke?

Might not be as easy as that but hopefully soon, eh. Time to get our club back.

Rob Halligan
39 Posted 15/11/2022 at 11:38:03
I’m also hearing that we could be looking for a new CEO very very soon!
Tony Abrahams
40 Posted 15/11/2022 at 14:42:25
Denise, is doing well if she’s found a new job Rob, considering she’s only been looking for alternative employment for at least a year.
Dave Abrahams
41 Posted 15/11/2022 at 20:31:15
Michael. O/P, It’s Brazenly not Bizarrely in your middle paragraph.
Tony Abrahams
44 Posted 16/11/2022 at 08:27:20
I think the more people get away with, then the more ‘brazen' they become, Dave. I'm sure even Bill Kenwright himself must think it's ‘bizarre' with some of the things he's got away with, since he got his dirty paws on our football club?

I've stated it many times, but the managed decline of Everton, overseen by our current chairman, is a job that any bitter Liverpudlian would be very, very proud of.

Matt Henderson
45 Posted 16/11/2022 at 08:41:49
We need more than just getting Kenwright or the Board out, we need to make sure we get some decent appointments in.

Even if Bill won't leave, surely he, the Board and the owner can see things haven't exactly been going well on or off the pitch for a number of years so what would there be to lose by adding some quality talent to senior management — people with demonstrable experience at a successful club or large organisation.

So, if Bill won't leave, just get some new faces in to help! The reason why he doesn't can only be down to the fact he is worried it would dilute his power and/or show up the incompetence that exists. Best to conduct a review of yourselves so you can control the message and ensure no blame is put on your door and continue to sack or blame managers (that you appointed!) to fool some deluded fans, though thankfully a shrinking number, that it is not Senior Management that are the main issue.

This is why no one can argue that Bill wants what is best for Everton; if he did, he would be adding people to Senior Management with the requisite expertise to improve things and that may mean he loses some power.

Go and hire the Brighton CEO for a start! Now! And let him restructure the top of the Club as we have tried the manager changes enough now to work out further changes on that front don't make much difference.

Danny O’Neill
46 Posted 16/11/2022 at 09:17:26
Matt, I always respect others' views. But I'll always challenge them as well.

If Bill was as big an Evertonian as he claims (and I'm starting to doubt that as the years go by), then he would have realised that he should have handed over the keys to the Kingdom years ago.

I've always said, if you want an emotional fool to run Everton Football Club, then appoint me. But I am not up to the job and even if somehow I'd have been privileged enough to have the honour bestowed on me, once I realised that after years of continuous failure, I would have sadly, but gladly walked away and gone back to being a supporter and left it to someone more competent.

I can't comprehend why the CEO of Brighton would want to leave a well run club to walk into our shit show and work for Kenwright under an increasingly dumb-dee-do owner.

We need real change at the top to turn this club upside down, empty the moths out of the pockets, rid of the old regime and capitalise on the opportunity we have in the new stadium. Forget players and managers, right now, that is probably our only selling point and shining light.

I thought I was claiming down after last week. Obviously I'm not. Going to be a long month until they cure me with a win.

Jim Lloyd
47 Posted 16/11/2022 at 09:59:48
Yes Matt. A sensible and heartfelt post in a cry from the heart vein. What we need and what we get though, are two vastly different things. There is a hell of a difference between the two. Most of us go along with you on what's missing in our club.

Unfortunately, we have a Chairman who, for quarter of a century or more has riveted himself into this club we love and like a bloody rivet, is extremely hard to get out. Paul Gregg and his Missus helped Kenwright to take over the club; and some versions have it that Paul Greggs Missus helped him buy the shares. True or not, the point is Boys Pen Billy has remained Chairman since that fateful day they took over.

Not just a lot of water has passed under the bridge, poor old Everton Football Club has almost drowned!n Now I'm not a business type, that knows the structure of a company; but I'd have thought A Chairman should shoulder a little bit of responsibility over a quarter of a Century, for what's gone on. A CEO should, perhaps, have a smidgeons of it too, for what is happening now and in the past.

I seem to remember when last remonstrated at by fans, his immortal rallying cry was "Well, we've had some good times!"

As I said, I'm not up in the business world but I would think that a Chairman's role was to ensure that the company was run well, successful and profitable. Would call the directors and CEO to account if they weren't fullfilling their role in contributing to those aims of the company.

But, ultimately, the Chairman carries the can, so I believe! Well a thicko like me can dimly envisage that we're not well run, we're definitely not successful and profitable...don't make me laugh! Now what Mr Moshiri thinks, and why he thinks it, I don't know. My own uneducated gues is that there was a deal made when he took over, that he can't/won't get out of.

Now thare's a massive discussion among us Blues about whether we should keep or sack the manager, whether we need better players or not. Should the Director of football be binned and probably the coaching staff along with him. All etremely emotional and important questions on which our future in the Premiership could depend.

I mean, what more do us peasants want??? The Chairman and CEO have led a major Strategy Review which, as far as I can see has achieved Eff All!

I can only reckon that a successfully run company would not still have a Chairman who has led us from disaster to disaster and to us now facing relegation...yet again. So Kenwright and his chosen CEO should not be at this club

Now every one who posts will have their own view about our position and what we'd like to see happen.

My view that if we got Bielsa or another manager equally thought to pull us away from the great whirlpool we heading towards, would be like the very last throw of the dice. Well, I think there's a couple of problems. It isn;t which manager we'd like to see here, or which players he'd pick to help save us. The probem is

Have we got a pot to piss in?

Jim Lloyd
48 Posted 16/11/2022 at 10:08:04
ps: Matt,

"No one can argue that Bill wants what is best for Everton."

I agree with you that Kenwright wants what is best fo Everton. But unfortunately, that comes second to:

"Bill wants what is best for Bill" first. Always has.

Brendan McLaughlin
49 Posted 16/11/2022 at 10:46:50
Matt #45

I remember reading an article on Moshiri around the time he first bought into Everton. He stated that his role and that of the Chairman was to appoint the best manager available and back them financially.

I imagine if you were to ask him what has gone wrong at Everton during his time here... he'd be of the view that we (or he, if he's being really honest) got it badly wrong on the choice of managers.

I really don't think even at this stage Moshiri believes that the solution to our problems lies in Boardroom changes.

Barry Rathbone
50 Posted 16/11/2022 at 11:17:38
I'm afraid the real problem is far more prosaic – we don't have the money to compete at the standard we yearn to return to.

In hindsight, the money of Moshiri was at best a facilitator of upper-mid-table existence; at worst, a drift into relegation scraps.

If we have a takeover of Newcastle Utd, Man City or Chelsea proportions, things will improve, whether Kenwright or Coco the clown is in charge.

Success in togger boils down to one thing – huge, humungous amounts of money.

Jim Lloyd
51 Posted 16/11/2022 at 11:52:57
Spot on, Barry. I wonder if we've missed the boat (or boats) eg Sheikh Mansoor.

Hopefully Moshiri is looking for a takeover but, he's indicated he's only after investment. I suppose we'll have to wait and see.

Meanwhile, we'll do well not to sink.

Len Hawkins
52 Posted 16/11/2022 at 12:29:52
I don't believe in ghosts but I wish Sir John Moores would appear at the end of Kenwrights bed and ask him how he could sit on the board as a sham Chairman and aid and abet the owner in the job of taking us from Mersey Millionaires to Mersey Minus Millionaires.
His knowledge of running a football club, for which the owner kept him in his position for, is shown to be absolute manure.
Sir John please somehow get a taxi for Kenwright I'll pay the fare.
Brian Murray
53 Posted 16/11/2022 at 12:39:43
I'm sure the haunting footage of Bill with his arm draped over Moshiri like a cheap suit minutes after a Lukaku double had knocked Chelsea out the cup still haunts me.

From that moment you just knew he had him hooked until half a billion times later and counting. Wake up, mate, before it's too late.

Dennis Stevens
54 Posted 16/11/2022 at 13:18:00
Although finance is a key factor, the simple truth is that badly run football clubs rarely achieve success & never sustain it. Sadly, Everton has been a badly run club for a very long time. This has never been more apparent than over the last few years when the money was there to make some real progress, only to see it frittered away on a rapid succession of managers & a truckload of over-priced, over-paid, under-performing players.
Matt Henderson
55 Posted 16/11/2022 at 14:50:26
Danny at 46,

I agree with you and don't think I've articulated myself well. When I say no one can argue Bill wants what is best for Everton I mean I don't think he does want what's best for Everton when he sits at the top and makes no changes even though we have been a poorly performing club in every way possible for years. Bill is more concerned with Bill and staying in place then improving Everton.

And I agree we need to be rid of the Board entirely but unfortunately I can't see that happening but I can't understand why they just don't add to the Board at least which brings me back to the point they won't add to the Board because the Board are more concerned about looking after themselves (concerned with losing power) then improving the club by hiring expertise at the top.

Barry at 50 - you are right that we probably could not compare to Man City etc in wealth but surely we all agree that we have spent enough money that we should be in a much better position than we are now if it had been spent even slightly wisely. So real success does depend on money but being as bad as we are, and after spending the money we have, means there is much bigger problems at play. And even with Newcastle, FFP means you still need to spend well and cannot just spunk money and hope it eventually works

Rob Jones
56 Posted 17/11/2022 at 20:45:47
Whether Bill wants what's best for Everton is beyond our ability to know. What is abundantly clear is that Bill cares more about Bill than he does about Everton, or what the marks who buy tickets or merchandise think of him.

It's depressing to realise that nothing short of an act of God will remove him.

He's sat back and watched us shrivel to nothing, and even now, he'd rather watch us die than hand over the kingdom to somebody who might raise us back to something resembling self-respect, much less a club that can compete.

He'd rather live in shit than be seen holding a shovel.

Danny Baily
57 Posted 17/11/2022 at 21:25:47
Rob 56,

Some good news for you: Bill Kenwright has little or nothing to do with the running of the club these days. Removing him would make little or no difference.

Barry Hesketh
58 Posted 17/11/2022 at 21:33:39
Danny @57,

I wonder why he gets paid by the club to be a director, perhaps it was for this unforgettable football achievement in his profile as displayed on the official Everton website, much of which is taken up with his achievements in his day job.

Our People - Bill Kenwright

He was appointed chairman in place of Sir Phillip Carter in the summer of 2004 and just a year after taking that post he saw the Blues secure a place in the Champions League qualifiers under the guidance of manager David Moyes, ending a near-10 year wait for a return to European competition.

Brendan McLaughlin
59 Posted 17/11/2022 at 21:35:47
Sssh FFS, Danny #57,

When that gets out... ToffeeWeb will fold!

Brendan McLaughlin
60 Posted 17/11/2022 at 21:43:22
Barry #58,

It's been reported and generally accepted that he doesn't get paid.

Derek Thomas
61 Posted 17/11/2022 at 21:57:17
Danny B @ 57;

Well somebody (I presume) is running the business side and somebody the football side...

Barrett-Baxendale and Thelwell? How far back we can blame them is moot.

But somebody (more like a couple of somebodies) have been signing off on the key decisions of say - the last 10 years... and the 10 years before.

Brendan McLaughlin
62 Posted 17/11/2022 at 22:02:52
Derek #61,

Which key decisions?

Barry Rathbone
63 Posted 17/11/2022 at 22:13:01
Matt Henderson @55,,

The bigger problem you allude to is Moshiri.

Affluent by mere mortal standards but not by elite footy standards and hampered by being absolutely clueless in matters football.

He needs to sell up pronto.

Dave Abrahams
64 Posted 17/11/2022 at 22:14:40
Brendan (60),

In the past, it was often stated that Kenwright never took a penny out of the club, which I took with a large dose of salt.

In the past couple of years, it has been stated that the Everton Board was one of the highest paid in the Premier League, which seems a lot more believable, and some figures of the sum were printed in a thread on ToffeeWeb pretty recently.

Brendan McLaughlin
65 Posted 17/11/2022 at 22:30:07
Yes Dave #64,

But it doesn't necessarily follow that Blue Bill was paid.

Barry Hesketh
66 Posted 17/11/2022 at 22:37:28
How many people serve on the Board of Directors?

Is it just the four: Bill, Graeme Sharp, Denise Barrett-Baxendale and Grant Ingles?

With an absentee owner and a Chairman in name only, the club is obviously in good hands.

Brendan McLaughlin
67 Posted 17/11/2022 at 22:42:39
Well Barry #66,

They appointed Frank Lampard. Did they get it wrong?

Barry Hesketh
68 Posted 17/11/2022 at 22:47:11
Brendan @67,

As sombody said in reference to the Chinese Revolution "It's much too early to say!"

Pete Clarke
69 Posted 17/11/2022 at 22:59:45
The records may well not show much pay for Kenwright but he will be getting lots of money via other avenues from his accountant boss who really knows how to make money disappear.

We should all forget the stadium for a while and wake up to the reality of who's running and ruining our club.

I would go as far as to say that the biggest achievement of the current owner and chairman was to entice Ancelotti to Goodison but adversely, that once Ancelotti had cottoned on to how stupid these two are, he did not want his reputation destroyed by them and opted out.

Maybe I'm being a bit cynical there but that's about my feelings on these two clowns and the quicker they leave this club then the better we will all feel.

Don Alexander
70 Posted 17/11/2022 at 23:09:30
Threads on Moshiri and Kenwright go on and on – with good reason given their lamentable performance and the clear and present, enduring danger to our Premier League existence (and "existence" is what it's always been) under those two.

Meanwhile, way more threads (admittedly to which I've contributed) go on and on about the inadequacies of managers, players, systems, and recruiting whilst rarely citing "The real problem at the top".

Just as in North Korea, I think there's no point in people whinging on TW about the horrible impoverishment of their lives, because every one of those sorry buggers in North Korea who're intelligent enough surely know that their horrible impoverishment is thrust upon them by the immovable self-serving shit-house at the top.

Are us Toffees so identically minded – or do we want to try to save our club by trying to oust Kenwright as a minimum?

Andy McGuffog
71 Posted 17/11/2022 at 23:25:33
It was actually Zhou Enlai in reference to the French Revolution.
Brendan McLaughlin
72 Posted 17/11/2022 at 23:53:52
Course it was, Andy #71.

Burning for you, Barry #68.

Stephen Davies
73 Posted 18/11/2022 at 01:33:36
Danny #57,

Who negotiated with Daniel Levy for the transfer of Dele Alli?

Dave Abrahams
74 Posted 18/11/2022 at 13:22:50
Brendan (65), “but it doesn't necessarily follow that Blue Bill was paid.”

I doubt it also means that he does the job for nothing. If he does, it will be the first time he's worked “buckshe” since he was a snivelling milk monitor at school and you just know he was one of them – he's got a perfect snivelling milk monitor's face.

Clive Rogers
75 Posted 18/11/2022 at 14:14:24
Danny, 57,

If the chairman is not running the club, then who is? It can't be Moshiri as he never comes near anymore.

Michael Kenrick
76 Posted 18/11/2022 at 21:48:32
Danny @57,

Sorry I'm a bit late getting to this one.

Bill Kenwright has little or nothing to do with the running of the club these days.

I think it's more likely that Bill Kenwright, as Chairman of the Board of Directors since 2004, has maintained his overall role throughout this astounding period of our progressive decline. (Although I'm not just saying this because I want him to be blamed for it – however guilty he may be of all he is accused.)

The role may have changed somewhat (a) as the traditional non-executive directors (Abercrombie, Woods) progressively left the Board, and executive directors (Wyness, Elstone, Barrett-Baxendale and more – all with fulltime jobs inside the company) were appointed, and (b) when Moshiri became owner.

Earlier in this period, as a more traditional board that was there primarily for oversight, they would meet very rarely, and they would be unpaid, as recorded in the Annual Accounts. Most of the current board (except Kenwright) work day jobs in the EFC, and get paid handsomely, as recorded in the Annual Accounts.

I believe this is probably the main reason why Director Remuneration at EFC is one of the highest in the Premier League but I know nothing of the boards of other clubs and their make-up.

It probably means the Board is now more like a senior management committee, and it may meet more frequently in view of the much more direct involvement of most board members at least with the day-to-day running of the club.

As a result, Kenwright might be more involved than he was during the "good times" but he has always worked in London at his main job running his theatrical production company, and so the time he spends 'running EFC' is likely pretty limited – that's what the rest of them are supposedly doing.

Brendan McLaughlin
77 Posted 18/11/2022 at 22:06:24
Sobering post, Michael #76

The fixation with Blue Bill is understandable but so, so much wasted vitriol.

Kunal Desai
78 Posted 18/11/2022 at 22:52:33
Lost opportunity when the protests stopped soon after we escaped relegation. Momentum should have continued throughout the summer but typically it all died down and went away when in reality these people responsible for this club surviving by a hair's breadth should have been chased out of the city.

Second time around, we might not be so lucky… and the protests then will be all too late and in vain.

Brendan McLaughlin
79 Posted 18/11/2022 at 23:01:14
Kunal #78,

Protests... plural?

Tom Bowers
80 Posted 18/11/2022 at 23:16:25
Most of us fans are not aware of the everyday dealings at the board level unless they are privileged shareholders.

However, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that the big guns are doing a lousy job with the outlook still looking bleak.

Most of us believe that finance (or lack of it) is the biggest problem and I just wonder if the emphasis on the new stadium is a contributing factor.

We have seen some pretty lousy squads and performances over the years but I suspect we are in for some more before the season ends.

Lampard may continue to shuffle the pack and still come up with a lousy hand unless action is taken to help him.

I am not in agreement with sending the team all the way to Australia for meaningless games when they need to be fit and fresh for the next game on Boxing Day.

Paul Birmingham
81 Posted 18/11/2022 at 23:49:47
Respectfully, facts, in terms of protests.

The single protest on Saturday, 23 July 2022, was done in good order, and was the only event this calendar year, in my understanding. There was a good turnout by Evertonians, and the community was in tune, in terms of the rationale for the protest march.

Those actions would never please all, but would please some, and are done in the genuine interests of EFC.

Some on TW condoned that protest march, and it is respected, but as all views on TW are respected, it was done then, and perhaps if needed, whenever needed, just to show that EFC is a religion, and then there's faith, and shows Evertonians live, breathe, and die the Club.

In real time, this World Cup dwell time is now critical to save this season, as the rot is sadly moving in, and I also reckon this Summer more talent in the U18s & U21s could go too, unless a change of faith and belief is shown by the managers and coaching staffs.

Only at Everton.

Everton Blue Blood is like volcanic lava, it is for eternity.


“What's Our Name?”

All ToffeeWebbers, have a great weekend.

Pete Clarke
82 Posted 18/11/2022 at 00:09:57
Imagine Everton as a ship.

Moshiri decided to buy himself this historically beautiful ship. He knows nothing about sailing and has no intention of getting on board very much but he buys the ship and is therefore the captain.

He is very warmed by the previous owner and asks him to continue on as Helmsman and for him to arrange the crews. The Helmsman himself explains that, as much as he loves the ship, he himself does not intend to spend much time aboard running the ship and that he too knows little about being a skipper.

So the ship sets off regardless without any proper command and it stops at various ports to change the chief's mate and a few able (and unable) seaman, then continues on its journey to nowhere and is ultimately lost at sea.

Those with better knowledge of Maritime life will know the chain of commands better than I do but I know, without skilled people at the helm, then this ship would eventually sink.

Brendan McLaughlin
83 Posted 19/11/2022 at 00:21:31
A ship... For fuck's sake!

Taxi for Pete!

Pete Clarke
84 Posted 19/11/2022 at 01:07:26
Talking of ships...

The captain of this lugger
He was a dirty bugger
He isn't fit
To shovel shit
From one place to another
James Flynn
85 Posted 19/11/2022 at 02:42:17
Pete Clarke (82) - Good stuff.
Brian Murray
86 Posted 19/11/2022 at 05:54:26
Paul @81,

The contrast of the protest march across the park was night and day when they was on their knees. Seen the footage and theirs was a lot more fierce and straight to the point.

Ours (I was there) was too nice and even the message got a bit blurred with Sky honing in on Moshiri and the last 6 years when it was about 27 years, with that lip-service Fan Advisory Board fella standing by the Liver Buildings, telling Sky he's happy with the board.

Still, if at first you don't succeed…

Darren Hind
87 Posted 19/11/2022 at 07:30:18

You give the Gobshites too much credit mate.

The Royal Bank of Scotland had far more to do with the sale of LFC than anything they did.

You have to bear in mind that they are a global brand, whether we like it or not, and were attracting offers of around £500M from DCI over 10 years ago – a figure greedy Hicks famously dismissed as derisory.

The shite were drowning. The stadium in Stanley Park dead in the water. They were being auctioned and the RBS were heavily involved. The mighty dollar triumphed over Arab oil money on this occasion. They were getting sold. with or without the Sons of Bitch... I mean Shankly.

I don't really take that much interest in the shite normally, but I remember coming on here and gloating the shite had gone from the Yank frying pan into the Yank fire. Our man in Florida (Crowley) warned me that this crew were serious people. He gave me a bit of background and I started digging.

I support protest, I welcome anything which may help tip the balance, and in our case, it may, but it didn't in their case. The Kopites may kid themselves that they brought about change of ownership but, in reality, they had fuck-all to do with it.

Brian Murray
88 Posted 19/11/2022 at 07:56:47

It was more a general opinion but, like yourself, I don't normally bother about what they are doing or their politics running the club. I don't know the tipping point when our fans are going from staying passive, with the odd glory night 3 points, to saying "Enough is enough".

I'm more in the Big Nev stable and my idea and standards of Everton is a million miles away from the chairman's.

Danny O’Neill
89 Posted 19/11/2022 at 08:03:38
Great balanced debate, Brian and Darren, by two great Evertonians.

I'll add balance.

I'm a foolish optimist. I don't mind admitting that. I get told it often enough by the family.

I agree that ultimately, it's the banks and the men in grey suits that make decisions.

But I also concur that once the natives get restless, it makes the banks and men in grey suits think about their decisions.

Christine Foster
90 Posted 19/11/2022 at 08:35:29
The response to the threat of relegation was in itself a protest, a movement of the fans determined to drag a team off the floor and keep them in the Premier League despite the appalling mismanagement that resulted in the most serious threat of relegation that we have known for a generation.

All this should have shamed the board; however, perversely it served to promote the fans and club to the media, no doubt to the relief and satisfaction of the board.

The lines drawn between the running of the club, and that of the team, always appeared to many as tram lines, both needed but rarely interacting, but that has gone awry because of decisions made that directly impacted on player management and recruitment. Dabbling... play things, an absence of care, and an arrogance of power.

The lack of professional accountability is limitless. Token board with an absence of accountability because two men ultimately decide what they want, not what the club necessarily needs.

John Keating
91 Posted 19/11/2022 at 08:48:03
Many posters seem to think that Kenwright is only hanging around until the stadium is finished.

Unfortunately it's not true.

It appears Dan Meis's primary remit was to ensure a projector was strategically placed so that a permanent digital avatar – a la the recent ABBA concerts – could be projected onto a throne in the Directors Box.

We, our kids, our grandkids will be gazing on this clown day and night 24 hours a day – unless the lecky prices dictate otherwise – forever!

Brian Murray
92 Posted 19/11/2022 at 09:04:14
Off the subject of the chairman because it just depresses me but more to do with the new stadium. Did you all see the World Cup drones above the fan zone in the shape of the World Cup and various other shakes like shaking hands etc that could move about. You probably know where I’m going with this as in our crest above bmd could float about in the night sky as far as anfield and beyond. Anything to rub their nose in it as they grapple with their loft conversion plans.
Danny O’Neill
93 Posted 19/11/2022 at 09:09:39
You say it in the word you use twice Christine.


And your last sentence. What the club needs.

If you're not accountable and you are self-serving, you won't deliver what is needed. You will just seek self-preservation for what you personally want.

I'm in a fairly senior position, but I don't care for myself. I care for the success of the organisation. And most importantly, the people who work for me and the organisation.

If for one minute I thought I was failing them, I'd walk. And it wouldn't take two decades to make that decision.

Nick Page
94 Posted 19/11/2022 at 09:28:23
Nail on head, Danny. SELF PRESERVATION. This is all Kenwright has ever been concerned with which is why the odious prick surrounds himself with sycophants and yes men.
Barry Rathbone
95 Posted 19/11/2022 at 09:44:57
There is an argument for Bill Kenwright being the greatest chairman in English footy and those saying otherwise could be classed as bullying, short sighted and strange.

We don't have anything like the wherewithal of Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs yet we join them as one of only 6 clubs not relegated from the Prem. In addition, the wheels have only really come off since Bill's "final say" was bought by Moshiri.

If circumstances are considered carefully I'm sure his critics would concede they are being far from fair and may have to consider sending him a letter of apology.

Being fair minded myself my conscience is clear, thanks Bill

Dave Abrahams
96 Posted 19/11/2022 at 09:49:09
Brendan McLaughlin ( various), you seem to take a light hearted approach to the Kenwright situation, if you don’t mind me asking, what are your real feelings, if any,about the way he has run the club and more personal, are you a resident of Merseyside? That last question might explain quite a bit of your feelings towards the situation.
Nick Page
97 Posted 19/11/2022 at 09:52:32
Barry Rathbone, hahahahahaha well done on creating the most ridiculous, infantile and moronic post in the history of ToffeeWeb. Bellend
Dave Abrahams
98 Posted 19/11/2022 at 09:56:17
Barry (96),

Looking at a lot of the sentences handed out daily by Crown Court judge,s you wouldn't look out of place sitting in judgement with them, and the very lenient sentences they pass out.

Nick Page
99 Posted 19/11/2022 at 09:56:52
Dave @96.

Judging by his posts, McLaughlin is most likely a Kenwright plant from the club or a member of family on here to sow discord amongst the sick and tired fanbase. No one with a functioning brain cell left in their head can defend what he's done to this football club.

Danny O’Neill
100 Posted 19/11/2022 at 10:04:05
It depends on how you view history, Barry.

I like to think of football as having existed before the Premier League. Otherwise, we've never won a title and even that lot have only won one. Man Utd only 13 of their proud 20. Only 13!!!!

We can twist stats and adjust time to make them fit. In my living memory, and if I'm not mistaken, only 3 clubs have not been relegated from the top flight.

Everton being one of them. The other two being Liverpool and Arsenal.

Brendan McLaughlin
101 Posted 19/11/2022 at 10:19:12
Congratulations, Nick #99

Barry's (95) record for "the most ridiculous, infantile and moronic post in the history of ToffeeWeb" didn't last long.

Barry Rathbone
102 Posted 19/11/2022 at 10:23:53
Danny @100,

But was Blue Bill the Chairman then?

Strip out the emotive "we are a big club" banner and consider the reality of his tenure when gauges beyond fanbase size demonstrate we are NOT a big club by modern standards.

In which case, remaining in the Premier League whilst peers such as Villa, Newcastle, Sunderland etc dropped down to the Football League has to be viewed as an achievement.

Derek Thomas
103 Posted 19/11/2022 at 10:27:02
Brenden @ 62;

Hobnobs or Bourbons for morning tea, you know those real key decisions.

Nick Page
104 Posted 19/11/2022 at 10:39:19
How’s Uncle Bill doing Brendan? Can you please tell him to fuck off, there’s a good little troll.
Jeff Armstrong
105 Posted 19/11/2022 at 10:51:02
Danny @100,

I think you need to review your relegation “stats” – they make no sense.

Brian Harrison
106 Posted 19/11/2022 at 10:53:13
Danny @100,

The only club never to be relegated from the top tier is Arsenal but it was all about money as to how they got promoted to the top tier and not what they did on the field. Everton have the 2nd longest unbroken spell in the top tier, just behind Arsenal. Liverpool were promoted from the 2nd Division I think season 1959-60.

In my lifetime, we have only ever had one great owner and that was Sir John Moores who, although being a Salford boy who started his Littlewoods pools business selling coupons outside Old Trafford, quickly became an adopted Scouser.

He also employed thousands of local people in his pools business and then ventured into clothing via Littlewoods stores which were ran by him and his brother Cecil.

Sir John knew what it took to build a successful business and transferred that determination into making Everton the success it was under his stewardship. I am sure he must be turning in his grave seeing how the club has fallen to where we are now.

The thing about Sir John Moores was he could easily have had his chauffeur drop him outside the entrance to Goodison, but he always got his driver to drop him off 100 yards from the entrance so he could hear the views of the fans.

We now have an owner who hasn't attended a game for a long time – never mind walk alongside fans to hear their views. He even conducts AGMs via video calls.

Brendan McLaughlin
107 Posted 19/11/2022 at 11:06:29
Nick #104

Like your enthusiasm but you're already the record holder by a considerable distance... so you can rest easy on your laurels, probably for quite some time.

Danny O’Neill
108 Posted 19/11/2022 at 11:15:36
I was born in 1971. Since then I think only Everton, Liverpool and Arsenal have never been relegated from the top flight at some point. I said in my lifetime. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Brian, that's one of those interesting pub quiz moments. Arsenal indeed have the longest unbroken spell in the top flight. We have the most seasons. There was a while when Coventry City were in 3rd place, ahead of Liverpool if I recollect correctly.

Didn't Arsenal also carry out a then controversial move from Woolwich in South East London to park themselves in North London? In the scheme of things today, not a seemingly significant move, but back in those days, that was akin to Everton moving to Kirkby.

Reading through history, Sir John appears to have been an astute businessman and operator. He acted swiftly when he needed to by all accounts and wasn't afraid to make decisions.

Darren Hind
109 Posted 19/11/2022 at 11:28:25

A few years back (cant remember what season) I went to Villa park for a night game. You may well have been there.

It was a boring game, so boring that I can only remember a half chance we had which was missed by young Chadwick.

Anyway, to the point; The Villa fans had completely had enough of their then Owner/Chairman Doug Ellis. They had organised a protest. We didnt know about this, we had our own problems,

At the allocated time a few of them stood up. then, within seconds, like a static Mexican wave, what seemed like the whole of Villa park was on its feet.

The Evertonians were surprised, but the Villa players were visibly shaken. They simply went to fuck. We enjoyed what seemed like a sustained period of almost total possession. Needless to say, we still didnt fucking score.

I think I've spoken about this on TW before, so I'm not sure what I'm posting it again for.

I guess there is a few points I want to make here.

Ellis had seen the club as English and European Champions, Yet he still wasnt afforded the same grace as win-fuck-all Kenwright has been - He must have killed a fucking priest or something.

The during-match protest had a visibly detrimental effect on the Villa team so in a sense it kinda back fired. It put me off in ground protests forever.

The Brummies did not have the benefit of Snapchat or Whatsap, but were still able to galvanise the troops.

They eventually got their way, but there are real lessons to be learned from their mistakes.

Never protest during a match - But if you do make sure we are playing somebody shite.

Never do anything which will harm the team.

Never allow your club to be sold to a twat with a name like Randy. Thats just asking for trouble

Danny O’Neill
110 Posted 19/11/2022 at 11:39:07
Random one here, Darren.

I was once on exercise with a US colleague in China Lake, California, a training area that is the size of Wales. He was called Randy and his surname was Coffee. Yes, Randy Coffee. The most bizarre named person I've ever met, but a good guy to work alongside.

As I've mentioned many times, some of the other half's family are Villa supporters. Not Brummies, they're Black Country (Dudley). I also have a lot of friends who are Villains.

It still grates that Mr Ellis named a stand after himself whilst still a living mortal.

Now there is a thought.

Michael Kenrick
111 Posted 19/11/2022 at 11:41:43

I was initially struggling to see how you had earned your new accolades from Mr Page but I see you have made the odd and generally subtle – but nonetheless exceedingly dangerous – appeal to sanity here and there.

In the interests of fan unity that Tony Abrahams often espouses, I must humbly request that you refrain from upsetting the more rabid members of our flock.

Steavey Buckley
112 Posted 19/11/2022 at 11:50:24
Everton's main problems they are not creating and scoring goals. Fix those problems and the fans are more than happy.
Michael Kenrick
113 Posted 19/11/2022 at 12:01:35
Those bizarre nicknames our American cousins are fond of include 'Chip' and 'Chuck'.

I honestly had trouble making eye-contact with the guy I worked with whose handle was 'Chip'.

From solitary 'French Fry' to the idea that he was keen on woodwork in his spare time, I really struggled to concentrate.

And yes, I guess 'Chuck' has increasingly made inroads on the right side of the pond but it still grates. King Chuck III? Please, no.

Dave Abrahams
114 Posted 19/11/2022 at 12:46:24
Brian (106),

A good post about John Moores and he deserved every bit of praise he got as Everton's owner. He put them back on top and we didn't look out of place until ill health possessed him and Harry Catterick and we slipped down the ladder.

As you say, he was always approachable and interested in what fans had to say. I think his family after he passed away would have nothing to do with Kenwright. Maybe as down-to-earth and sensible people, they could smell a bullshitter as soon as they opened their mouths.

As I said, Brian, a good post. Just one thing: Liverpool got promoted in 1961-62. For eight long delirious and delightful years, they were in the Second Division, never forget that, Brian!!

Jeff Armstrong
115 Posted 19/11/2022 at 13:09:15
Apologies Danny 108, I didn’t realise you meant since 71.
Danny O’Neill
116 Posted 19/11/2022 at 13:20:03
No need to apologies, Jeff. I just always like to clarify. Especially being the 51-year-old youngster I am!!
Stephen Vincent
117 Posted 19/11/2022 at 13:35:40
Danny, I think Arsenal finished in the relegation positions in 1914 and should have gone down to the old Division 2. After the War the First Division was expanded and Arsenal got a reprieve.

There was a really good article about it a while ago on ToffeeWeb: Was 'Honest John' really honest?

Brian Murray
118 Posted 19/11/2022 at 13:41:45
No shame coming a close second in the top flight to a club like Arsenal who had a touch of class about them. Maybe it was the Highbury marble halls or just my soft spot for 1989 Michael Thomas last second title winner.

It's all up for grabs nowwwww (Brian Moore) – beautiful.

Ed Prytherch
119 Posted 19/11/2022 at 14:03:28

You didn't say what time of the year you were in China Lake but if it was mid summer then you must be a tough fucker.

As for names, I coached a boy named Dwight House and we had a woman named Queen Elizabeth in the chem lab at Work.

Brian Harrison
121 Posted 19/11/2022 at 16:54:33
Dave @114,

Yes of course the other lot got promoted 1961-62. My memory's nowhere near as good as yours, Dave.

Jay Harris
122 Posted 19/11/2022 at 17:08:14
Talking about names that make you CHUCKle I was at school with a lad called Robert Kidd and of course every time they had a roll call R.Kidd got a bunch of laughs. The other great name was Brendan McNutt.
Tony Abrahams
123 Posted 19/11/2022 at 17:22:38
Michael @111,

I'm disappointed in you here mate, because I'd say it was ‘literally' impossible to create real unity whilst Bill Kenwright is at our club!

Brian Murray
124 Posted 19/11/2022 at 17:31:49
Nothing rabid about wanting better for Everton Football Club.
Joe McMahon
125 Posted 19/11/2022 at 17:55:25
Brian @124, it certainly isn't. It's just incredible that a club that was once one of the contenders has gone so many years without any success.

I really don't know why Kenwright, amongst much of the shit he spouts, states we've had some “good times”, nevermind "what would Everdon do"!

John Keating
126 Posted 19/11/2022 at 19:00:47
Danny 110,

Met a Yank years ago-pre Iraq and all that shit – good lad to be out with. In fact thankfully he was my bessie. Any issues, he would just start caressing his 12-inch commando knife.

Well, I think that was what he caressed as his name was Randy Dick! Couldn't make it up!

Tony Everan
127 Posted 19/11/2022 at 19:15:10
A good friend of mine at Uni was the generous king of the god-like deities. His name was Indra Dan.

He got fed up because he was a pub landlord called Michael Jackson before he became a mature student and fancied a change.

Rob Halligan
128 Posted 19/11/2022 at 19:33:33
Seeing as we’re on funny names, without a word of a lie, my brother knew a girl called Pat Mycock.
Dave Abrahams
129 Posted 19/11/2022 at 20:32:24
Stephen (117), I think if you Google how Arsenal got into Division 1 after the First World War, it will be different to what you posted.

Arsenal were in Division 2 before and after the war, in fact they finished 6th, much later amended to 5th in the first season after the war. Then, as you say, Division 1 was extended to 22 teams and, after a bit of skullduggery, Arsenal were chosen instead of Wolves, Chelsea and Spurs who all finished above Arsenal that season.

That was one of the main reasons that Spurs fans really turned against Arsenal and still rant about it today.

Michael Kenrick
130 Posted 19/11/2022 at 20:33:29
It's a difficult one, Tony.

On the one hand, you'd think there would be enough evidence against the man such that he himself could be the unifying force in bringing together the fan base under a unique and imperative common purpose of getting rid.

But you and I know only too well that there is a strong element within the fanbase who have bought the line that he really is the World's Greatest Evertonian (apologies to other claimants) – so much so that even he could not achieve that simple feat of unifying the fans against him.

That's the trouble when you allow a collective of free-thinking Evertonians to assemble under one roof. If as some claim, it was a religion, then you might hope with reason that they should all cleave to a set of central tenets which define and underlie their faith. That they would come together to achieve Blue Heaven on earth.

But that's the problem. We're dealing with real people who all have their own thoughts and priorities and ideas about what is in the best interests of Everton Football Club. And to be honest, they seem to be all over the map.

Les Callan
131 Posted 19/11/2022 at 21:19:05
Dave @129.

If you go to the national football museum in Manchester, I think you'll find that Arsenal bought their way into the First Division at the expense of Barnsley.

Tony Abrahams
132 Posted 19/11/2022 at 21:38:37
I can’t argue with your last paragraph Michael@130, but after reading some of the posts on this thread, I would definitely question if some people are genuinely, being real.

I know I probably get up a few people’s noses on this website for constantly slagging Bill Kenwright, but this is because I believe the man has done a massive amount of damage to Everton football club, (and got himself extremely rich, in the process) and I can’t really understand how some people can’t or don’t want to see this.

Dave Abrahams
133 Posted 19/11/2022 at 21:43:59
Les (131),

Yes, that could judged to be correct in one way. Why I say Chelsea and Spurs were ahead of Arsenal was they were due to be relegated from the First Division having finished in the bottom two places but they would have stayed up and then the two top teams from the Second Division would have completed the newly expanded 22-team First Division.

Chelsea were allowed to stay in the First Division but not Spurs. The two teams who finished 1st and 2nd in the Second Division went up but Barnsley who finished 3rd were leapfrogged by Arsenal and so denied their promotion.

So as you say, Arsenal bought their way up.

Les Callan
134 Posted 19/11/2022 at 21:50:52
Thanks for that explanation, Dave.
Michael Kenrick
135 Posted 19/11/2022 at 21:51:37
Oh no, Tony, are some of these people not real?

That simple thought throws the entire thread into complete confusion for me now. We've already had Brendan unmasked as being a close relative of Bill Kenwright.

Let me guess: I think Danny is Kevin Sheedy's secret lovechild.

[1971: Sheedy would have only been 12... Hmmm... I might have to rethink this one.]

Tony Abrahams
136 Posted 19/11/2022 at 22:03:33
I'm not questioning if the people are real, Michael, I'm questioning if they are 'being real'!

That's twice you've disappointed me on this thread, Michael, but don't worry – I think I understand, and I'm certain it's because of the monotonous shite that you sometimes have to deal with? Mate!

Michael Kenrick
137 Posted 19/11/2022 at 22:13:31
Sorry, Tony, you know I tend toward the overly literal reading...

But when you say people are not being real, do you mean they are knowingly or deliberately writing stuff they do not believe?

I know there are some posters who deliberately try to wind-up other posters but that is usually pretty targeted and recognisable.

Or are you talking just about Kenwright, and saying that some people are not being genuine when posting about him?

Sean Kelly
138 Posted 19/11/2022 at 22:29:45
The main problems at this club emanate from the top. As with other clubs, they are the playthings of the owners and chairmen.

The difference between the Top 6 and us is the willingness of their owners to properly delegate their ambitions to proper professionals. We appoint past players and hangers-on resulting in no ambition, only nostalgia.

Tony Abrahams
139 Posted 20/11/2022 at 08:35:00
That's exactly what my thoughts are, Michael. It's been reported and generally accepted that Bill Kenwright doesn't get paid, (Brendan @60) is definitely something for the literals to ponder, but it's repetitive and boring, just like our football club has become.

Another thing that is repetitive and boring, is how many times, and how many people including myself, repeat what Bill Kenwright said about us having some "good times".

This comment alone should have been the straw that broke the camel's back, but for some unknown reason most Evertonians prefer to put their heads in the sand.

Jim Lloyd
140 Posted 20/11/2022 at 08:58:23
I'm not sure if Brendan is a pseudonym or not, but I'll take him as real. I just wonder why a poster decides to try (witty?) responses to other posters who are enjoined in a discussion about why the club has found itself in the position we are in?

It seems to me that we have had two Chairman in my lifetime, who have had dramatic effects on our Club, since I've been going the match.

One was Sir John who helped drag this club to League Championships, FA Cup Finals, robbed by Inter Milan and around regular Top Six; for 10 years or more.

The other Chairman, over more than quarter of a century, has dragged us unerringly towards relegation on several occasions. He may not have taken wages but, if I had £35 million out of my investment in the club, then I don't think I'd bother with wages either!

Brian Murray
142 Posted 20/11/2022 at 09:14:26

Didn't you know we are all extremists and should be happy just existing? We are being totally unreasonable asking anything of anyone on say TalkSport, BBC, the Echo or especially our boardroom.

Leave them to their fortnightly jollies at Goodison until the unthinkable happens in May, then wheel out Seamus and say we will be back.

Poisonous snake needs head cutting off but hey it's only been 6 years – not 27 apparently. As for the manager, another one over his head…

Danny O’Neill
143 Posted 20/11/2022 at 09:31:36
Some great names listed above. Gave me a few laughs.

Michael, I couldn't have been born of Kevin Sheedy. He walks on water and his feet wouldn't get wet in a puddle.

Jim Lloyd
144 Posted 20/11/2022 at 09:34:14
Aye, your right, Brian. I'm just off to the Car Bootie for me regular fix of junk collecting.

Before I go though, I agree with you that the BBC the Echo, and others, were screaming "Blue Murder" when the Devil Worshippers found themselves in trouble for being greedy. Yet our muted response to our situation sees the Echo, and BBC (if we're mentioned at all) it is reversed. We're asking too much from a game little club, to expect better than this tripe.

I think our manager might well be finding it too much, but I think it follows a pattern. All of our managers (except the one who buggered off as soon as possible) have found it too much to handle. Mainly because of the influence of certain board members (named Kenwright) who were proud of their negotiating skills. I'll be on again when I come back with the goodies (junk, in other words).

Brendan McLaughlin
145 Posted 20/11/2022 at 10:07:10
Hi Jim #140,

Thanks for the compliments... real and witty (?)

I wasn't aware there was a particular style one had to adopt when posting. I'm surprised Michael K hasn't already pulled me up on that by now.

I personally don't particularly enjoy long, forensic, monotonous posts but I welcome all contributions and would never critique another poster's style... content obviously is a different matter entirely.

ps: I promise to work harder on the witty (?)

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