It Ain’t Over

by   |   15/01/2023  67 Comments  [Jump to last]

This has been my worst week after 40 years of supporting Everton and I’ve heard my seniors say similar. Another defeat against a bottom side, an out of touch letter from the owner, fans forums cancelled due to threats from fellow fans, allegations of headlocks, director boycotts, fans chasing young players out of Goodison, Frank Lampard finally losing the faith of his last loyalists. 

On ToffeeWeb, wise sages like Colin Glassar are accepting the “inevitable.” Optimists like Sean Kelly say they can’t go on. I personally and surprisingly found myself agreeing with posts from both Ian Edwards and Darren Hind. The world has gone mad.

But while many of us don’t have the energy or emotional strength to find hope, we have to. Relegation from TV money alone would immediately be cut in half if we are relegated. Bear in mind we can’t even sign players with 100% of that money. If we go down it’s the end of Everton as we know it. None of us even Sean can really switch off and none of us should accept relegation as the\inevitable as it could end us.

So what can we do? We can keep the pressure on the board in a peaceful manner. We can stop getting sidetracked and turning on FAB, Fans Forum or anyone else who has an even worse idea than we do for the next manager. We can encourage the likes of Rob Halligan, Neil Copeland and Danny O’Neill so they remain positive in the hope that maybe their energy at away games can raise some life among these useless sods. We can try and learn from John McFarlane by keeping perspective and negative emotions in check. And accept that, like poor old Lyndon and Michael who run this site through wind, rain or shine that we have to keep the faith.

Article continues below video content

Soren Moyer is talking of needing 8 more wins but right now the trajectory to safety is 30 points and a marginally better goal difference. In theory, 5 wins could be enough. Put another way – we could lose the next dozen in a row and still survive. Pearson did it at Leicester City, Bryan Robson did it West Bromwich Albion. We can’t control what we can’t control but, if we accept relegation, then you know the players and board will happily throw the towel in. They can afford to do that as they’ll go elsewhere. We can’t because Everton has touched us. 

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Reader Comments (67)

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James Flynn
1 Posted 15/01/2023 at 17:42:24
I'm optimistic as soon as Lampard is gone. He's no big-league manager.
Shane Corcoran
2 Posted 15/01/2023 at 18:01:12
The fact that, the day after the Southampton defeat, there isn’t a sniff of a rumour of any changes, be it manager or incoming players, doesn’t help in the optimism stakes.

We won’t get out of this without at least one of these changing.

Kevin Molloy
3 Posted 15/01/2023 at 18:05:51
it's interesting watching Lampard at the moment. One clear message has been transmitted, that's for sure. He aint gonna quit. His latest statements seem like he's begging for the chop. 'everyone knows I'm not the best coach in the world, but Ill never stop trying'. he's even got his uncle in the press saying how much he worries for him. But he wants his ten big ones, and then what, a cruise with Christine for a couple of months and back on the pundits couch to way lyrical about Chels.
Kieran Kinsella
4 Posted 15/01/2023 at 18:24:13

Yeah after everything I woke up today expecting some kind of news of something!

Barry Rathbone
5 Posted 15/01/2023 at 18:46:58
The trouble is we exist in a perfect storm and unless the good lord himself lends a hand we're gone.

Years of calamitous transfers have finally produced what genuinely looks like the worst team in the division led by a front man without the necessary finance posturing about an ill timed new stadium whilst blaming fans.

From the outside it must be a hoot watching Carry on Everton.

Rob Halligan
6 Posted 15/01/2023 at 18:47:54
Kieran, it’s never over till it’s over. The fat lady is in a deep sleep at the moment, nowhere near ready to start singing. We are one point from safety, two off the teams in 14th, 15th and 16th place. It’s one lousy game from climbing out of the bottom three, depending on results going our way, of course.

If you remember the thread I posted before Christmas, “Be a fan of another club for a day”, I said, or asked, could anybody see the bottom three at the time, Forest, Southampton and Wolves, suddenly finding this upturn in form and pulling away from relegation? None of those three could score goals, and were conceding goals for fun. Forest and wolves have found the magic formula to somehow win a game or two, but are still deep in the relegation battle. Southampton had lost their previous six league games before yesterday, so let’s see if their next three or four opponents are as generous as we were yesterday, or whether they can go on a long unbeaten run?

All it takes is one lousy win to get the confidence back, and find an improvement in form. If that’s with Lampard, or anybody else, we don’t know but for now, me, Danny and Neil, along with the thousands and thousands of other blues up and down the country, and world wide, need to get behind the team and try again to push us to safety.

Anyone who has already thrown in the towel, don’t let that door smack you on the arse as you walk away.

Eddie Dunn
7 Posted 15/01/2023 at 18:58:06
It is possible to get points and get out of the mire but it needs change and Lampard needs removing. The man is staying put because it is his rep on the line(and his pay-off). His future depends on him displaying to all and sundry that he has been dealt a hand that nobody could win with.
Eventually he will blame the owner, the board and the players who just aint good enough, but he won't blame himself.
If he had any dignity or self -respect he would resign.
I hate him for making us go through even more of his poor management.
He stinks. The owner stinks and Kenwright stinks.
The first thing we need to do is remove this parasite.
I said this at Christmas -it's such a shame we didn't sack him during the WC.
Brian Williams
8 Posted 15/01/2023 at 19:21:42
I really wish I could concur with the title of the piece but as much as I try, I can't.
I think it IS over.
I think we're witnessing the death of our once great club and I think relegation is a certainty.

Peter Mills
9 Posted 15/01/2023 at 19:41:46
If it's “stick or twist”, I would be inclined to “stick” at present.

I fully understand the clamour for change, but this season is far from over. Let Frank Lampard deal with the players one to one. Let Paul Clement, who has a reputation for being a very defensive coach, be one for the next 19 games.

Play ugly, very ugly, home and away, and aim for just over a point a game. Tell the fans that is the plan. Start at West Ham, go for a point, then do the same against Arsenal.

We can do this.

Tony Hill
10 Posted 15/01/2023 at 19:45:40
Peter @9, yes, I think so. And we can.
Andy Crooks
11 Posted 15/01/2023 at 19:50:20
I agree that we can do it, Pete, but not with Frank. He and his team look shell shocked.

We need a new coach bounce, an angry man who will not countenance "crisis club Everton" talk. But we can get out of this, I am confident of it. Saturday was the dark before dawn. Keep the faith.

Dave Abrahams
12 Posted 15/01/2023 at 20:06:02
I think it could be possible to escape relegation but doubt it completely if Lampard and his coaches are allowed to carry on.

As much as I respect Peter @(9) there has been no inclination by Frank and Co that they are going to change their tactics – even less that they know how to.

I will continue to support the team but, unless they change the manager, I think there is less than an even money chance we will survive.

The inertia shown by this board and owner was bad enough but the fight by them against the fans has made matters much worse.

Tony Hill
13 Posted 15/01/2023 at 20:36:01
I wonder what coaching could prevent the regular sloppiness of our players - not just at the moment but down the years? When it matters, we flinch. That's down to an entire climate of failure which is at the heart of this club.

If I were to identify our besetting problem (a problem which is at work much more widely in society) it would be sentimentality. It is false and corrosive and in Kenwright and Barrett-Baxendale we have its perfect, self-serving practitioners. But this is the work of 50 years despite the '80s blip.

Where is this coach who is going to rip it all up? I think we've made a start in our recovery by unnerving the disgusting limpets on the Board but goodness knows if we're going to escape again by the skin of our teeth.

I still think Lampard can do it. He was ruined yesterday by dreadful defending and by the stupidity of Gordon and Pickford. He's ultimately responsible, of course, but I don't see any Messiah waiting to step in.

Neil Copeland
14 Posted 15/01/2023 at 20:37:37
There are still 19 games, half a season to go so it is absolutely not over.

Every game is winnable albeit some are much more difficult than others. If we can get a result at City away then we can get one anywhere.

To me, the biggest issue now is the manager and coaching staff. What has happened to us defensively? Earlier in the season, one goal at home against Wolves and Southampton would have been enough for at least a point in each game. The players look confused and there is no plan B.

A real concern I think is that The Board and Moshiri will dig their heels in over Frank because the fans have pissed them off big time. Hopefully, common sense will prevail but I am not convinced. If we relieve Frank in the next day or so, it will still leave a week or so for a new man to identify a couple of recruits. If not, then who knows….

However, good health allowing, I will never stop watching the blues, can’t imagine life without them. I try not get on the players backs during a game but it doesn’t mean I won’t call them out if it’s justified. To me, supporting Everton means just that - providing vocal backing and encouragement to the best of my ability,

Our support is fantastic when it is in full voice, there is nothing quite like it.

So come on lads and lasses, don’t give up and show the players our support because we stand no chance without it regardless of who the board, owner, manager, coaches and players are.

Oh, and I got a ticket for West Ham and the train is only £48 return from Crewe to Euston.

Plus the red wine has worn off!


Ernie Baywood
15 Posted 15/01/2023 at 20:59:44
I was against sacking Frank. For me, the only hope was transfers and togetherness. It's looking like we'll go into the second half of the season with neither.

Losing games. Squad not good enough. Players being abused by fans in their cars. The club accusing fans of assaulting the CEO.

I don't really see the way back from here. I'm pretty sure this is how our top flight stay ends.

Then I think that's cowardly. We've got a fight on our hands and we're throwing in the towel. We may well need to sack Frank – not because there's necessarily anyone better or because the players aren't putting in a shift for him – but because there needs to be something or someone to get behind.

I'm just not sure who that is. None of the names bandied around have felt right. Who is our version of 1994-95 Joe Royle? He changed the feeling in the club, made the players feel 10 foot tall. Found a way to play with what he had and added what he needed.

But with the club in the position it's been in for so long, we don't really have a legend in waiting. We don't produce them anymore. There's one that gets talked about... but he's probably not ready, or maybe even not legendary enough.

But we might now need to do it. What is there to lose?

Danny O’Neill
16 Posted 15/01/2023 at 21:37:51
I liked that Kieran. Really good read and spoke from the heart.

Dave Abrahams as always, words of wisdom.

Neil and Rob, see you there. Just look after me in that fans' zone although I'm a notorious away fan groupie so be warned! We'll be fine, last time out we were a few doors down from the Blind Beggar and mixed well!!

Peter Mills and Andy Crooks, that's the spirit we need.

Here we go as they say.

Spiirit. Forever.

Danny Baily
17 Posted 15/01/2023 at 21:43:15
It is over in all likelihood. And that changes how we go about the rest of the season.

While we stood a reasonable chance of avoiding the drop (before Brighton and Southampton), I'd have brought in a new manager. But now, there's not much we could realistically expect to gain from pressing the panic button.

We should stay the course, give it our best shot and plan for the future accordingly.

Neil Copeland
18 Posted 15/01/2023 at 21:49:22
Danny#16, look forward to it!
Tony Abrahams
19 Posted 15/01/2023 at 21:52:30
Those kids who have let themselves and our club down were making a very pertinent point imo. I’m not condoning them, although I believe some of them (not all of them) are just unfortunate enough, not to have had enough experience to know they have played right into Bill Kenwright’s hands (some people will find it easy to jump on this, and say I’m accepting this ridiculous behavior- I’m not) but imo, the ‘main point was’ was they were asking two Everton players to speak to them.

The Colombian got out and spoke, but the kid from Walton, refused to do this because he was apparently looked terrified, and the media, have jumped on this, along with loads of our neighbours from across the park.

Moshiri spoke bollocks, whilst the board never turned up, and it’s quite possible they have even unashamedly hid behind a premeditated lie? It’s a fifty/ fifty at best with no footage or reporting of the incident to Merseyside police imo.

The fans need answers, and nobody is giving them any, so isn’t it possible that instead of giving another false rallying cry, the players and manager could invite a few sensible and passionate fans into finch farm this week?

The trust between the board and the fans has now been totally broken, but someone, somewhere, needs to have the wit and the wisdom, to try and heal the wounds, that Saturday’s no show, has helped turn into a very frustrating open wound.

If they continue to stay moot, and bury their heads in the sand, whilst continuing to tell us nothing, then without a meeting of some sort between the two most important groups in the football club, (the players and the fans) how can Everton survive in the Premier league this season?

Some People will say Moshiri is the most important person inside our football club, but if he continues to do nothing, then he simply can’t save us. THE FANS, THE PLAYERS AND THE MANAGER, DEFINITELY NEED TO GET TOGETHER AND TALK.

Tony Abrahams
20 Posted 15/01/2023 at 22:01:01
Have Everton been getting worse season on season, or was it just that the divisive appointment of Benitez, was just a step to far?

I ask because when Alan Stubbs left Everton, (because the peoples chairman - but only if you do as you’re told - allegedly put a horrible clause in his contract) then we had an absolutely shocking start to the season, but then we suddenly started to improve once Stubbs returned.

Has Duncan Ferguson been missed in a similar way, or am I just clutching at straws?

I think if you don’t clutch at straws, sometimes, then you’re either very lucky, or have never been prepared to try anything for something you love, so that’s why I’m clutching at straws.

Paul Birmingham
21 Posted 15/01/2023 at 22:02:01
There’s half the seasons to play for, and there’s great stakes, the future of EFC, could be in the balance.

So, clear mindedness and and perspective, required at a Finch Farm, and all Evertonians together, can be a force of Nature, unstoppable.

Everton are in Shit Creek, but not for the first time, but all the teams from 13 th position are in the mixer, and can slip in the relegation zone.

True grit is needed, which in some players of the squad, still needs to be found, but there’s everything to play for and plenty of points on the park to be won, and focus on the task at hand.

Discipline, belief, and luck, and guts.

Beat West Ham, or take a point, it’s a start, and any thing is possible.

Hopefully the wrath of the football, Gods, is nigh, and Everton’s fortunes on and off the park, will turn, starting this week.

It’s a funny old game, but the season is there to play for.

“Whats Our Name?”

Neil Copeland
22 Posted 15/01/2023 at 22:04:18
Tony, I think you raise a really good point. The opposition to your idea would be based upon the lack of trust. In other words, how do the club identify fans that they can trust to behave after Saturday (in their opinion)?

Assuming that problem can be bridged, such a meeting could pay huge dividends. Whatever happens, the bond between players and dabs needs to be restored quickly.

Paul Smith
23 Posted 15/01/2023 at 22:06:32
Half a season to go and there’s no point bringing in a new manager ? 2 wins from 13th. Yes, seems fanciful from here but there’s every chance we can survive with a fresh pair of eyes at the helm. There’s clearly very little for transfers after another £260 million added to BMD so change the manager, it might cost less (unsure how much to pay Frank & Ashley off) and give us a lift. Clearly the board are going nowhere and will be back in their seats soon enough even after their deceit and propaganda. Nothing will change under Lampard we will go down. He hasn’t the ability, he’s shown that.
Kieran Kinsella
24 Posted 15/01/2023 at 22:10:03

To your point I wonder if and when the board will sit with FAB after last week’s meetings? And what impact yesterdays results, protest, allegations might have?

Tony Abrahams
25 Posted 15/01/2023 at 22:10:40
I know I’m the person who has made this point Neil, but it’s probably the best and only way to try and mend bridges right now. If we don’t try and mend these bridges then we are quite simply fucked, so maybe leave it up to people like Jimmy Martin and Tony Sage, (two scouse kit men) to inform the manager, of sensible, passionate Evertonians, that they can vouch for and also trust, whilst knowing that only good can come out of it?
Neil Copeland
26 Posted 15/01/2023 at 22:20:24
Tony, that’s a good suggestion. Agree totally that such a meeting would pay back in spades.

Given the current climate would Moshiri and The Board view it as the manager, players and fans joining forces against them? My point being that it may have to be sold to The Board in such a way that it comes across as their idea? Perhaps that is where the FAB could help?

Tony Abrahams
27 Posted 15/01/2023 at 22:21:21
Kieran I’m at the point where I genuinely don’t give a fuck for this board, and it was clear from day one why they appointed this FAB group imo, mate.

Maybe I’m being a bit militant, but I believe only good can eventually come out of honesty, and my true feelings are that the board have scored the biggest own goal imaginable by not turning up on Saturday, but they weren’t missed, because they have never been good enough for Everton football club anyway, imo. Except Sharp, the footballer, not the member of the board.

It’s down to the players and the fans now, and the players have got to be convinced that the fans are just desperate, because I’m sure this is something they already know, deep down🤞

If what Neil says is true, and it does make loads of sense, let’s get that fabulous FAB, involved immediately!!

Danny Baily
28 Posted 15/01/2023 at 22:22:26
Paul 23, we're two wins from 13th that will take us months to come by. Leeds next month is realistically our earliest shot at 3 points. I'm not against changing the manager; prior to the Southampton match I was desperate for us to do so. But the risk/reward balance of hitting the panic button has shifted now the winnable games have run low.
Jim Lloyd
29 Posted 15/01/2023 at 22:29:33
We haven't got a say in whether it's keep Frank for ???? or sack him. We can undermine the manager and his staff and the team, or support them, As much as Moshiri said it was us who decided fates of managers, it's that shower sitting in the Board's seasts who do that.
Half a season to go. We don't know if we have any money to buy the standard of players we need. do we sack our current management team, after buying (hoefully) and selling some players Although they say it was us who wanted rid or wanted in, It's the Board.

The best thing, the only thing, we can do, is support this team, the manager and his team.
Tony, that's a good idea and one worth having a go at. Do you know Jimmy Martin and Tony Sage? If you do, would you have a quiet word and see if there's any mileage in the idea Basicall, the manager needs help. He won't get it from the Board. Jim Wilson mentioned Joe Royle, but someone pointed out he's with Oldham. at present.
I think the idea of a new manager and some fresh players is up inthe air because the club might be unable to buy until they sell.
We need action mnow, and ytour idea is the best that I've heard.

Pete Clarke
30 Posted 15/01/2023 at 22:52:30
It’s a scary scenario that we are headed into with relegation, a poor team, no funds and above all else an owner and board who have caused it all. Worse still they have tried to put the scrutiny on to the supporters so we now have total communication breakdown too.
The owner needs to wake up though and try to resolve this because Everton supporters will be here long after he’s disappeared from our history so he has to make some decisions very soon as we are getting close to meltdown.
There’s no simple way out of this mess but my feelings are that Lampard can’t be shifted because of money related issues and the board don’t know what the best thing to do is. They, just like us will hope that a win comes soon to relieve the pressure. We’ve lost to the other teams around us and now it’s West Ham with an under fire Davy Moyes up next. The irony of defeat to this mans team does not bear thinking about but on the other hand a win would give us all a much needed lift in spirits.
We clearly need some luck to go our way on the pitch and that’s what I’m clinging to for this weekend but the mess at the top will require a lot more than luck to resolve.
Neil Copeland
31 Posted 15/01/2023 at 22:56:03
Tony #27, I looked up the FAB email address and have just sent a message to Jaz Bal with the suggestion. Worth a try.
Tom Bowers
32 Posted 15/01/2023 at 23:10:58
None of us really know the answer to what has been happening this season. Suffice it to say the warning signs were there last season for everyone to see especially the board and very little has been done to stop the rot from carrying over.

Sure Lampard had to be given every chance to get his act together for this season but the selling of Richarlison was the first sign that they need to act positively and they didn't.

Who's idea was it to bring in Maupay and keep Rondon for as long as they did. We can all blame injuries to certain players but that doesn't wash with me as all clubs have their injury woes.

They apparently had the chance to cash in big for Gordon who really wasn't that impressive but they didn't.

All eyes seem to be focused on the new stadium rather than the squad.

Okay so hindsight is 20/20 but now they know the situation and have to act accordingly before other teams around us start to pull away.

What is the board doing -- nada. Not even a sniff of new players nor a manager who can get them motivated even after getting ahead in a game against similar opposition.

The West Ham game smacks of another weekend of woe for us faithful.

Pete Clarke
33 Posted 15/01/2023 at 23:17:11
I agree on the coaching being poor but with that, it also looks like a lot of our players are not for learning.

DCL attacks the ball way too early and is already on his way down when the ball arrives at his space. Gordon actually cowers from any aerial challenges as does Doucouré.

Mykolenko very rarely gets a ball over in the short space of time allowed him and Gray way too often tries to do too much rather than pass.

These are all basic coaching things and it's clear the players aren't being told or they simply don't have the intelligence to carry out orders.

Pickford also needs to arrange his defense better. Coaches are paid to get this through to the players but are clearly failing to do so.

Eric Myles
34 Posted 15/01/2023 at 23:28:52
Neil #22,

The board have already identified a group of fans that they can trust, they're called the Fans Advisory Board, what's left of them.

Neil Copeland
35 Posted 15/01/2023 at 23:36:08
Eric #34,

I am not sure the fans trust them though. But I agree it could be very difficult to set up in any other capacity than the FAB.

The feedback from Kieran and James who attended the zoom meetings was positive overall though.

Brendan McLaughlin
36 Posted 15/01/2023 at 23:45:52
Fans and players meeting FFS!

For the Catholics amongst us (no offence to any who aren't) there's a novena (BTW for those who are going to Hell... it involves a lot of praying) called the Nine Tuesdays.

I've more faith in that than Fat Frank...

Ernie Baywood
37 Posted 15/01/2023 at 23:58:55
I'm an atheist who is now open to divine intervention.

Things only Everton can do to you.

Kieran Kinsella
38 Posted 15/01/2023 at 23:59:28

I was skeptical before the call but changed my mind. Plus some of these “hand-picked” individuals quit in frustration at Moshiri.

For all the abuse FAB have taken, they could easily have walked away – after all, what's in it for them? Nothing – other than trying to improve the club we all support.

Brendan McLaughlin
39 Posted 16/01/2023 at 00:15:31
Ernie #37

If your Tuesdays are pretty free I can send you a link

Ed Prytherch
40 Posted 16/01/2023 at 00:24:20
That's a good one, Ernie.
Tony Everan
41 Posted 16/01/2023 at 07:03:14
No need for prayers, divine intervention, Hail Mary's or sniffing the Pope's socks etc.

Mr Moshiri needs to look at the cold hard facts and act accordingly to address the glaring and obvious problems in a pragmatic and professional manner.

Get an experienced manager in who can organise the players and execute a simple clear plan. One the players can understand.

Get two players in who can score goals. Wide, CF, AM, does it matter?

If Mr Moshiri chooses to do nothing, then I'll join in the prayers. Any discarded, holy, Pope socks on eBay?

Tony Abrahams
42 Posted 16/01/2023 at 08:05:42
Brendan, I know you are not a local, and I’m not trying to dig you out for this, but if you had witnessed the scenes at the end of Saturday’s match, you would appreciate how bad it is, and I’m not talking about a few stupid teenagers out on the streets.

Lampard, looks out of his depth, but so are the people you half defend, even though you say you don’t like them. If the people with ulterior motives (imo) are out of their depth, who is going to replace a manager who is out of his depth?

If the manager is not going to get replaced, then somebody needs to speak to this squad, explain the fans feelings, and more importantly hear what the players have got to say in return.

I can’t see anything coming from it Neil, but it’s worth a try, especially because deep down the players and management, must already know that a lot of people simply live for Everton.

If around twenty teenagers can do more damage, than over 1000 people attending the training ground, to see off the team before a massive relegation battle, then we are finished.

Singing you’re not fit to wear the shirt, was definitely a lot more damaging to the players, I’m sure? and that’s why I’ve made what I think is a very logical suggestion, that is full of common sense? (I can’t pray, because I’d feel like a phoney, sorry Lord Jesus, I’m sure we’d like each other, but I don’t think I’m getting in!)

If you truly understood how bad the situation is, then I’m sure you would already have a few priests praying for us 24/7 Brendan, and you would have also got them to times those nine Tuesday’s by another nine!

Liverpool is a close nit city, as you well know Jim, and Tony Sage only comes from Walton, and knows loads of very loyal, passionate and very long serving genuine Evertonians.

Dave Abrahams
43 Posted 16/01/2023 at 10:05:26
Brendan (36), those novena’s bring back many memories for me, I used to go with me Nin every Tuesday night for novena’s to St. Anthony not long after the war, the Friary church would be packed out with people from different parishes and the crisps and sasparella she bought me afterwards were well worth waiting for, there are also plenty of other novena’s on a Tuesday, one to St.Martha sister of Lazarus.

I don’t think novena’s are meant for football fans because other team’s supporters go to novena’s as well.

I know your post, Brendan, was meant as a bit of fun and I enjoyed it.

Kim Vivian
44 Posted 16/01/2023 at 10:13:47
I haven't read all the above posts but as I am seeing it the problem with all this is if we can scrape to safety (and I think we just about can although my glass half full side and my glass half empty side are at odds with each other) is how do we go on and improve? We are hamstrung by PL financial regulations so I can only see a rinse and repeat scenario next season. No significant incomings while our main competition go on to improve.

Unless we can find someone who can genuinely conjure a silk purse from a sow's ear we are stuck broadly with the same group, potentially minus a couple of the better players (Pickford, Onana, DCL?) sold to raise beer money.

Should the worst happen, would the parachute payments if we went down, and a new set of rules, ease the financial constraints on the club? Of that I am unsure.

People talk about the players bottling it in the Championship but we have a squad that would, or should, without doubt be highly competitive in a pretty poor standard league. Christ - the whole squad are internationals of one description or another and include a world cup winner and goal scorer. Last years departures from the PL - Burnley riding high, and Watford and Norwich both in or near the play off positions. I know it's only half way through the season but it demonstrates the considerably poorer quality 'downstairs'.

I think I could easily accept a competitive season in the Championship rather than suffering another season like the last couple. Back in the 70s I used to go to Pompey in the old second division and the whole match going experience was just as enjoyable, notwithstanding I hardly ever get to a bloody home match these days (living closer to Paris than Liverpool).

Forget our enviable record of consecutive seasons in the top division which I think is clouding the judgement of some fans - it's going to fall sometime - it will be bitter, very bitter, but swallow the pill if we have to, and bounce back up. New stadium coming, potentially new owners, BK, Mosh etc gone and a whole fresh page.

Just don't inflict a third season like the last two on me.

Dave Abrahams
45 Posted 16/01/2023 at 10:22:35
I think we could all do with a good laugh, turn to grandoldteam website and click on to “ Appeal for Witnesses” guaranteed to give you a few.
Danny O’Neill
46 Posted 16/01/2023 at 10:31:56
You make a very salient point Tony regarding whether Everton supporters have got worse. I can only go off what I've seen and witnessed. Last season felt like a game of 2 halves. Well maybe 3.

To start with, it's happened, give it a go (for some, not all). Decent start.

Then it went south and the simmering resentment turned toxic as expected. But it was aimed at the manager.

Then we focussed our efforts on getting behind the team and were overcome with relief at dipping for the relegation line with a game to spare.

So in a way, the club / board got a free pass last season in my view as the supporters' focus was elsewhere, both in terms of anger and then cranking up the passion, if that makes sense.

This season, it seems to be increasingly targeted at the board, even from many who have not been very vocal at that part of the club. A lot of the frustration will inevitably be focussed on the team on the day and in the heat of the moment. Especially when key members of the board don't even turn up.

They must be blind or deaf. Or both. Maybe ignorant. Maybe just not bothered. Well I am and we are.

We could go back further. For me, as I've said on many occasions, from since we last won the title. For others from since we won the title in 1970. Decades of being almost ordered to accept mediocracy as some form of success.

Well they picked the wrong club and support base for that. They can never take away our passion. The will never take our freedom or ability to speak out.

I'd best stop as I'm beginning to sound like an Evertonian William Wallace.

I like the suggestion of that meeting. The statements and actions of the past few weeks have been divisive and isolating. We need to lick and heal the wounds that have been opened. With the manager and the team.

I don't want to bash the FAB and their members as not being Evertonians and maybe I don't have the full visibility of what they do. But from my position it is living up to my early suspicions when it was announced.

Right now though, one win away from the league table looking very different. When Saturday comes as they say. I revert back to the title of this thread!! We're not done yet.

Steve Brown
47 Posted 16/01/2023 at 10:36:48
Come on, there are 19 games left to play and 7 poor teams in the division separated by 2 points. We were looking at 13th during half-time and we are second bottom at full-time - the margins are ultra thin.

My main hope is that there are a lot of team around us compared to last season.

There are big decisions needed in the next 2 weeks, chief among them being to sign a striker, winger and creative midfielder. Whoever is manager needs more attacking options

We are obviously limited by transfer budget, but probably more so now a reluctance to sign players on wages we cannot financially sustain if we are relegated. Hence, loan with an option to buy seems to be the approach. And it doesn’t seem to be working!

I don’t see the logic in committing £760 million to open a new stadium in 2 years, but refusing to spend £30-40 million now to secure survival. Make the decision if you are going to retain or sell our main asset (Pickford) and spend the money now.

Steve Brown
48 Posted 16/01/2023 at 10:40:20
Dave A, maybe Crimewatch will do a reconstruction as well.
Steve Brown
49 Posted 16/01/2023 at 10:42:50
Here’s the link:


Nick Page
50 Posted 16/01/2023 at 10:44:47
Dave A, Steve…some wag on Twitter suggested yesterday it was Bill who got Denise in a headlock…she was questioning the whereabouts of the Arteta money and he’d had enough. Hahahaha
Paul Cherrington
51 Posted 16/01/2023 at 10:47:12
It's true to say we're not done yet and that we technically have enough games left to save ourselves. The bigger issue though is do we really think it will happen with how the team is playing right now? Or with the current manager in charge?

If we cannot take victory in a must win home game against a bottom of the table side, then I really do wonder. Games in hand (like last season) or plenty of games left are only any good if you pick up points from them. I cannot see where then next win is coming from at the minute. We could have 30 games left and it wouldn't matter with how bad we are now.

Something has to change for us to pull out of this and make the most of the games which are left. It could be a new manager or the current one trying new players instead of the same old faces.

If Lampard wants to really push the boat out he could ask our midfield to track their runners now and then, make a proper effort to get back when the opposition break or stop giving the ball away in dangerous areas. Lost count of the points Gana has cost us this season alone because of that - but he still plays every game.

Tony Abrahams
52 Posted 16/01/2023 at 10:54:38
I heard crimewatch did a reconstruction last March Steve, but like the incident itself, this is only a rumour, up to now.
Clive Rogers
53 Posted 16/01/2023 at 11:01:43
Kim, the reality is that new owners want a PL club and won’t buy the club in our current position or if we are relegated. If we do go down it will be a disaster and we won’t bounce back up. Any decent players will leave and we will have massive debts. The new ground and it’s costs will be a millstone around our necks and will drag us down for years. The club has other debts already.
Gary Johnson
54 Posted 16/01/2023 at 11:32:01
To survive needs change. End of. We are not getting change. That is obvious. Ergo, it is over…..other than another miracle, but we are all out of luck
Martin Mason
55 Posted 16/01/2023 at 11:35:16
Gary, the fat lady hasn't sung yet mate, have faith. I'm an atheist but I'll reconsider it if a miracle happens and we stay up. But what then? Same next year.
Ian Pilkington
56 Posted 16/01/2023 at 11:50:32
Last summer Moshiri made a monumental mistake in not selling out to the Kaminski consortium, deciding instead to “seek investment”, the very term regularly used by Kenwright in the past to ensure he remained in control.
At the time I felt a deep despair as new owners would not only have guaranteed our survival in the PL with investment in new players, but also would have surely appointed a board capable of running a successful PL club, with the added bonus of ridding us of Kenwright.

It is hardly surprising that Frank’s signings have been underwhelming (Onana excluded) with the board restricting him to signing players either with transfer payments spread over 5 years or loanees and free transfers, despite the £60M (up front) sale of Richarlison and the release of several expensive players off the books.

No doubt Moshiri would love to sell out now but the Americans or any other potential buyers will be biding their time until PL safety is assured. Let’s hope that somehow we get there.

Dave Lynch
57 Posted 16/01/2023 at 11:58:13
The fat lady hasn't sang yet but she's gargling in the wings.

Another 3 consecutive defeats and the viking hat will be on to lament our relegation.

Gary Johnson
58 Posted 16/01/2023 at 11:59:06
Martin - any miracle will need to come in next two weeks, and even then it’s after Wolves got Cunha, Leeds got Rutter and Bournemouth today singed Dango.

Can’t see any reason for thinking we can catch, let alone get back above these teams other than blind faith.

Ray Jacques
59 Posted 16/01/2023 at 12:30:07
In past years of struggle and even in good campaigns, our home form has been the foundation of the results. We have been chronic away from home for twenty years.

We have lost four home games in a row, three against teams in and around and even beneath us. The Leicester game scared me as it was plain to see how much better they were than us.

Yet people still don't want a change??

We are sleepwalking to relegation and something needs to happen now whilst there are plenty of games to turn it around.

We all know the players are not good enough technically, physically or mentally. Therefore clever tactics, organisation and a system of playing are our only hope of staying up, neither appear to be applied under Frank.

Someone at the club take control and sort it out now please.

Tony Abrahams
60 Posted 16/01/2023 at 12:37:35
This ties in with what I heard yesterday Clive. I heard there won’t be any sale before May, and after hearing that these Americans, don’t really understand the concept of relegation, I’m just hoping they don’t walk away if the unthinkable happens.

If we get new owners, I won’t mind if go down, just as long as they can take the hit of course. I believe it would be better to reset our team, with a season in the championship, and we might even win the FA Cup, once the curse is removed.

Daniel A Johnson
61 Posted 16/01/2023 at 12:48:35
Key to our survival is the removal of Lampard. Out of his depth and at this stage a complete liability.

We keep Frank we go down.

Clive Rogers
62 Posted 16/01/2023 at 13:14:18
Tony, they will walk away. They want PL football and the tv money etc. The big problem would be the debt. With £760M for the ground plus existing debts I can see the total being over £1 billion. The new ground needs PL money to pay it off. In the championship the debt will drag us down further.
Tony Abrahams
63 Posted 16/01/2023 at 15:07:24
How many years again, did Bill Kenwright search high and low 24/7 for the right investors?
Rob Jones
64 Posted 16/01/2023 at 15:48:56

It isn't over?

The useless prick hasn't been fired, our rivals are all strengthening, and we've wasted two months when the squad should have been streamlined and a new manager brought in.

Dave Williams
65 Posted 17/01/2023 at 10:24:09
Of course it's not over. There's half the season to go but something has to change to give some impetus. A change of manager would help as Frank seems clueless now and his comment about not being the best manager in the world sounds like a man who has no more to give.

Years ago, we looked doomed… then Kevin Campbell arrived, a player most of us had forgotten about when he left Arsenal but his goals saved us.

Years later, a maverick Frenchman rocked up – Mick Madar – again someone I certainly had never heard of, career ruined by a bad injury – and he scored a few goals (and pissed a number of his colleagues off) before disappearing without trace.

But those goals helped us to scrape by along with five or six goals from a youngster who Kendall said wasn't mature enough to play that level (he was probably right) but those goals helped to keep us up. Kendall played another obscure player in Gareth Farrelly in that vital last match against Coventry and, blow me, the lad scored a screamer (albeit mis-hit) and we survived.

Our history since the 1990s is littered with instances of us being in danger before someone obscure turns up and helps us to safety, most never to be heard of again.

This is why Frank, if he stays, has to roll the dice and see if Simms can score goals at this level, see if Price or Mills can give midfield the energy and zest which we lack, and dispense with the players who aren't putting it all on the line.

We just need something or someone to spark us into life and the supporters are first in line. Drop the defeatist attitude – moan about it if it happens – but for now, get behind the team like our away fans do and drive them on. History has shown what can happen!

Raymond Fox
66 Posted 17/01/2023 at 13:45:58
Looking at the fixtures to come with my optimistic hat on I can see us getting 5 wins and 6 draws = 36pts, if that will be enough to stay up your guess is as good as mine.
I know, its impossible to predict consistantly well match results. There's always daft ones, winning when no one thinks you can and vice versa.

We were doing reasonably well up to the Leicester game on the 5th Nov. and then the wheels have come off big time apart from the draw at City.

If we can find one or two good additions I think that would be enough to give us a fighting chance to beat the drop.

John Ellison
67 Posted 22/01/2023 at 16:43:04
It’s clear Everton are a poor side right now but come on, they are also one of the unluckiest teams I’ve seen. No excuse I know but it must be said…

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