The aftermath of the Idrissa Gana Gueye-Michael Keane incident

Whatever happened to common sense. If we all acted within the letter of the law at all times then no one would be driving a car.

The man should have taken a moment, applied some discretion, issued a yellow to both players and the game continues.

The posters on here agreeing with the red, would have a different opinion if we had lost the game.

Schneiderlin springs to mind.

That was very odd.

And VAR, as usual, should be ashamed.

Maybe Tarkowski would have given Keane more than a slap if he had got there first!

I understand the referee has a difficult job and prefers the game to play within the laws, but in this unusual situation, a bit of common sense should have prevailed with a yellow given to both players as it takes 1 man to start an argument but 2 men to continue it.

Okay, I'm going!

Tarkowski was with Keane while Pickford and Ndiaye were “escorting” Gueye from the pitch.

Hopefully they can put it behind them as Gueye has been one of our most consistent players over the last few seasons and, despite some of the earlier comments, Keane has been our outstanding defender this season.

First: selecting Coleman to start; and then continuing him as captain. He should make it clear that, when the players are on the pitch, Tarkowski is captain. Off the pitch, Coleman can continue as Club Captain.

Tarkowski understandably has struggled for form a bit this season but he is a clear leader and seems to do a good job as captain; the Manager should in my view make this clear.

I'd be very torn as to who to drop for Branthwaite and, despite Keane's excellent form, I wouldn't automatically opt to leave Tarkowski out.

If we don't get a right-back in January, perhaps a back three is the answer?

Luckily it didn't cost the Blues the game. Well done to everyone for a great performance!

I'd bet an Oliver or Taylor would have told them to knock it off, maybe a yellow and leave it at that. Every game, every ref hears and sees teammates yelling and gesticulating at each other. It's part and parcel.

I love Idrissa. My favorite player. But that was a lay-off to no one. Keane was first, surprised and second, never going to race Fernandez to the ball. Never.

I don't recall ever seeing Gana display anger on the pitch like that. He was livid.

Still don't know why though...

I can't see how it's not violent conduct just because it was a teammate he slapped.

Harrington, sensing immortality, whipped that card out without any time to think and just as quickly adopted a Roman theatrical pose like one of those ancient nudes without balls.

There are couple of reports relating to the match on this very website by different authors and I think all have described it as a "slap".

It was a strange reaction over the incident.

I thought they must've set up an automatic link for it.

Thanks for spotting that. I'll put in a ticket.

But looking at the table we have moved up to take the Slot above Liverpool.

Idrissa Gueye received a round of applause from the Everton squad after apologising for his extraordinary red card in Monday's victory at Manchester United.

The midfielder became the first Premier League player to be dismissed for striking a teammate in 17 years when slapping Michael Keane at Old Trafford. Everton performed heroically with 10 men for 85 minutes, stoppage time included, to hand David Moyes his first win at Old Trafford as a visiting manager in 18 attempts and deliver only the club's second victory at United in 33 years.

Gueye did not get an opportunity to speak to Moyes or his teammates at half-time. Afterwards, with the away dressing room on a high following the 1-0 win, the Senegal international asked to address the entire group as well as Keane specifically.

Gueye apologised to the defender for slapping him across the face. Their heated 13th-minute altercation followed the midfielder's misplaced pass inside his own penalty area, which presented a chance to Bruno Fernandes.

He also apologised to the squad for leaving them with a monumental task at Old Trafford and thanked them for pulling it off. Gueye's words were warmly received by the squad, who gave him a round of applause.

Idrissa Gueye applauded by Everton teammates after apologising for Michael Keane slap

Assuming the reporting is true, then great. Technically an accurate red card but, for anyone with a brain, utterly stupid.

Glad the initial alarmist reports of rifts in camp etc seemingly untrue. Just an impassioned player made a shit pass, it backfired, he got embarrassed and freaked out on Keane.

Stupid, prideful and embarrassing... but a human failing he owned up to. End of story. No drama here. Move on tabloids. United camp at Goodison. UTFB.

If it's a pure Gueye stupid pass, I doubt he would react like this. It's not his first time to miscue a pass and cost a transtition or goal. And he did act like that in the past.

They must have drilled to pass in tight spaces when pressured. Gueye was just doing what's been practised because the pass was towards where the opening was. But Keane was not on the same page. And it makes the pass look completely stupid.

Gueye therefore got mad with Keane. But no matter what, it's never acceptable to slap someone. So I'm glad he apologised to everyone so all can move on.

We aren't at Goodison any more.

Winning 11-on-11 would have been memorable, but with 10... legend.

My son has just started secondary school and life has changed because certain kids now get a 5-minute early pass. He's tried it on saying he suffers from anxiety, but that was only going to work for so long because it doesn't take long for teachers to get to know you.

I said "Lad, if you let me slap you like Gueye slapped Keane, I'll get you an early pass."

"Will you, dad, please dad... "

I was sorry I opened my bloody mouth!

Not only did the opposing manager say he didn't think it was a sending-off offence, most of the pundits suggested a yellow card would have been sufficient.

And despite what Moyes says, I personally doubt that he, or any one at the club, likes to see that between team mates.

The ref should've given a yellow in my opinion but Gana deserves all the stick he gets for his stupidity. And it was a shit, panicky, "I don't want it, here you have it" pass in the first place -- not Keane's fault.

And BTW - I'm a big fan of Gana Gueye and we'll miss him when he's gone for good.

This is plucky Everton, the Corinthians of the Premier League. You're surprised we've not appealed, really?

You don't, surely, expect us to function like Man City or Chelsea or Liverpool, do you?

What would Alan Ball think of it all?

If that was in the late 60s or 70s, you're right, Bally would've got away with nutting Keane. But it's not then and it's becoming a non-contact sport and refs are looking for any excuse, in my opinion, to maintain the Big 6.

I bet that would have been a yellow if it was at the other end between say, Casemiro and Maguire. But I still think Gana was a prick and it was his shit pass that caused it.

And make no mistake: he would have been going against the book to issue a yellow. Gana's slap was forceful enough to turn a big man's head and leave a mark that was still visible after the game.

Everybody's right that it would have been nothing 50 years ago, but the sport has changed. A lot.

Unlike senior refs who get games every week, young refs can lose assignments if they miss calls, so they're incentivised to stay within the lines (pun intended). This was Harrington's first assignment in four weeks, since a tense Wolves - Burnley game.

And given what the rules say, I doubt he ever gave a microsecond's thought to showing anything but red.

It's been accepted, apparently, by everyone in the club... so I think it is best to let sleeping dogs lie.

Completely agree, Dave. Let's assume the Guardian story is right, though Moyes post-match did say that Gana apologised at half-time, and the team applause that matches that brilliant collective display on the pitch should be the end of this story.

Agree, Mark, it would be daft to appeal and would not reflect well on us. We move on.

I find it difficult to believe that any ref would only have given a yellow to Gueye. If they had VAR, they would have invited them to go to the monitor and we all know how that generally pans out.

What is wrong is no common sense is allowed anymore, more's the pity. The ref could have said to Tarkowski "Sort them out or their both off" ... but he daren't.

Lots of folks here think it could have been a yellow, and I was guessing it might have been possible with a veteran ref who knew Gana's character from 8 Premier League seasons and might be willing to cut him a break. But I hadn't even considered VAR intervention.

Opinions obviously differ but on this thread most people seem to think:

A) It was a slap to the face and a red card was merited;

B) It was a slap to the face but given that it was two players from the same team, some discretion should have been allowed.

You're the only poster I can see playing down the actual physical contact.

But dear me, Brendan, do you really believe that Gana's action was violent?

For info, definition of “violent“: force intended to hurt, damage or kill someone.

I don't believe Keane was hurt or damaged, and he definitely wasn't killed.

And the book says a player who "deliberately strikes an opponent or any other person on the head or face with the hand or arm, is guilty of violent conduct unless the force used was negligible.”

Referees can't be in the business of determining the force by which one player strikes another's face. So basically if you strike someone on the face, unless it's clearly intentionally minor, it's a red card.

In his fulsome apology, Gana didn't attempt to downplay the slap. He didn't even trot out the old line..."I gave the referee a decision to make."

If a Man Utd player had struck an Everton player like that, I'd have wanted a red. I don't really get the argument that, because it's two players from the same team, different standards apply.

Who are you and what have you done with Paul (insert name here)??
😘

Dr Griffiths & Mr Ferry?

How about “ unless the force was negligible.”

As I said on another thread …….violent my arse.

Define negligible.

Keane didn't want to get his team mate sent off

"Define negiigible"...not slapping someone?

Gana just patted him on the cheek?

Negligible? Hard to be definitive...

So, in the moment, it becomes highly subjective. And the bloke with that responsibility is the referee. The whole incident was farcical enough in the extreme... but to have it then reviewed by VAR and the ref sent to the pitchside monitor would have made it even more ridiculous.

So to those who refer to the letter of the law and fall back on "He had no choice because he raised his hands to another player", fair enough.

Now let the referees start penalising wrestling matches at corners, players wasting time and (a particular bugbear of mine) players trying to place the ball outside the quadrant at corners.

The law is the law after all.

Referees young or old have the same common sense to use if they want to but this referee had it into his mind to go by the rules in case he was not used for future games and he thought about all of this in a microsecond to send Gana Gueye off, according to Mike @41.

Doesn't it depend on whether the VAR guys are giving him a chance to view something he didn't properly see first time?
I want any ref to stick to their initial decision unless they are shown ‘evidence' that overturns it.

So if a ref chose to use some discretion and dole out a yellow (or two) instead, having fully seen the slap, then I'd expect him to stick to his initial decision.

What makes me laugh is that these clowns think they are so accurate that those few centimetres matter. Deluded.

Following on from corner kicks mentioned by Les, why the hell does the taker always raise their arm.

Slaps or punches of such little force usually do nothing except make the person receiving it carry on moving forward.

A shove is the type of thing that would turn a person's face, but I'm certain that there's an obvious reason nobody has allegedly been sent off for this type of offence for 17 years.

It's gone, we got the 3 points, and hopefully the spirit that was shown is also going to help galvanise our squad. I just wonder who is going to help galvanise this website.

Poor old Michael Keane, he must have been in agony but even still had the courage to see out the whole of the second half Terry Butcher-like with such a visible injury.

That is what came up when I googled, negligible, and this is unfortunately how I'm sadly beginning to feel about ToffeeWeb, Paul.

What has the game become. As you say Derek what would Norman Hunter think of it.

In order to speed the game up. 😀