We are making a rod for our own back by banging on about Kirkby being outside the city. Ask someone from anywhere else in the UK where Kirkby is and they will answer ?in Liverpool?. Note not even ?in Merseyside? but in Liverpool. It?s a bureaucratic distinction that is meaningless as far as ordinary people are concerned. Kirkby was built to re-house the people of Liverpool after the war. People from Kirkby, and Knowsley in general (like my family), are Scousers, regardless of a political boundary.
Should the move go ahead, of course Red Shite will tease that there?s only one team in the city but we could have laughed that off with along with all the other bollocks they come out with. Except that now we?ve made such a fuss about it, we?re setting ourselves up for the jibe.
Alternative sites are being hastily come up with but they cannot overcome our chronic lack of funds. We don?t have a sugar daddy, but what we do have is a very powerful friend in Terry Leahy. The boss of the UK?s flagship company is a die-hard blue.
Before these proposals, there were (rightly) questions about how we were able to exploit this good fortune. Sir Terry was too busy to take a seat on the Board but agreed to act as an advisor. What fruit this relationship has borne ? a potential new stadium that WE CAN ACTUALLY AFFORD.
Theoretically, we could be in the new stadium in three years' time ? but what if we reject this opportunity? Time passes whilst an alternative is hatched from scratch. In the meantime, we struggle on with our piss-poor restricted views whilst countless other clubs move forward with their corporate boxes and expanded/new stadiums.
We are still one of the biggest clubs in the country but because of the past. Memories fade.
We all felt so betrayed by Rooney?s departure ? I?m not saying he would have stayed if we had the promise of a new ground but say James Vaughan bangs in 20 goals this or next season. Or Arteta continues to improve. It's gonna be a lot easier for them to say "No" to a 'bigger club' if they know they will be playing in front of 50,000 in a great stadium week-in, week-out if they stay. We can't rely on ever dimming memories for ever to attract and keep top players: Arteta in Kirkby or Kilbane in Goodison ? tough one that.
None of the alternatives have what Kirkby has got ? Tesco. The firm?s investment and spending power effectively gives us £75M towards the stadium. After all the false dawns and various Billy Bullshit investments that haven?t materialised, here is £75M coming our way, with no dodgy foreign investor or massive debt attached, and we are planning on saying ?no thanks? just because it moves us a few miles across the wrong side of ?border? thought up by the boundary commission? This is madness.
This is a massive opportunity for our club to move forward and we should grab it. If we don?t we will regret it and for once we will not be able to blame the Chairman or the Board or the Club ? it is in our hands. We know our history but we also need a future.
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1 Posted 30/07/2007 at 22:51:55
Football is increasingly international - look at any team in the premiership. Something has to give a club its identity and home location is still the main basis: see how we deride the RS for their support in Somerset or Norway. I bet most people in Woolwich (South London) don’t support Arsenal (north London) now simply because the Arse used to be based there 80-odd years ago. Moving from the city that is our home will chop off our roots: we won’t expire immediately but will wither away in time. I wil be voting NO.
2 Posted 30/07/2007 at 22:54:36
3 Posted 30/07/2007 at 23:17:13
Nice article, but "playing in front of 50,000 in a great stadium week in week out"?
Our current average is just over 36,000.
I have two questions:
Where are the extra 14,000 per game coming from?
You may have read that the proposed per-seat cost of building is less than £2,000, around half of current and recent projects elsewhere, so why do you think it will be a great stadium?
4 Posted 30/07/2007 at 23:17:02
The overwhelming opposition to moving out of the City makes me very sad. I bet once the No vote is in, LCC will spend years before finally failing to come up with an alternative, whilst EFC go into terminal financial decline. But hey, at least we’ll decline within the Liverpool boundary.
5 Posted 30/07/2007 at 23:21:28
6 Posted 30/07/2007 at 23:25:01
7 Posted 30/07/2007 at 23:18:41
8 Posted 30/07/2007 at 23:37:45
’Where are the extra 14,000 per game coming from?’
Dunno, the same place Man City attracted 14000 new fans from?
They averaged less than us at Maine Road, were far less successful and attractive as us, and were suddenly average 47k in their first season at Eastlands.
9 Posted 30/07/2007 at 23:35:17
I have read MBE’s "analysis" of ground moves, which is so flawed as to be ridiculous.
He cites Southampton as pre-move 15,000, post move 30,000. That’s because The Dell could only hold 15,000. There were a lot more fans wanting to go every week, which is why they built a new stadium.
Of the others, by the third season after the move, their attendances were/are running at approx 60% of capacity, even where that has been some modicum of success (Sunderland winning the Championship, for example).
If the same thing happened to Everton, and there’s no reason why it wouldn’t, the average would be 30,000. There is certainly no evidence to suggest we could sustain a significant increase on current averages after the initial novelty period wears off, and there is no evidence from the club that any proper research has been done on this subject.
10 Posted 30/07/2007 at 23:41:18
The bottom line is a stadium anywhere else is not going to attract the same level of support from Tesco, if any.
We simply don’t have the resources to move anywhere else, and staying put isn’t an option.
I really hope people vote with their head’s and not their hearts...
11 Posted 30/07/2007 at 23:43:26
What was their average last season?
39,000 - pretty much what they used to get at Maine Road.
Don’t look at the novelty period. This move is supposed to be to sustain the club long term, and the figures don’t stack up.
12 Posted 30/07/2007 at 23:54:01
also note increased capacity we didnt fill could go to away fans or create further subsidsed ticket categories and prices. Right now our average is about 36.000 no? the same as the unrestricted views.
13 Posted 31/07/2007 at 00:06:54
Many of the responses I have seen to anti-Kirkby posters have been along the lines of "not being a true supporter if you won’t go to Kirkby".
Are you seriously telling me that a true supporter who wants to see the team is put off going by an obstructed view?
If all I could get was an obstructed view, I might not be too pleased, but it would never stop me going.
I notice that the latest propaganda on the official site has now put the obstructed views at 10,000. Given that Wyness himself said on July 18th that we have 4,000, doesn’t the lack of consistent information and constant spin worry you? How can you trust some figures, and not others?
14 Posted 30/07/2007 at 23:41:58
I live in the US, have never been to Goodison, but will certainly go there soon. I realize that it may be my one and only trip to this magnificent stadium with its history and atmosphere, but living in the US, I also understand that clubs are about much more than their stadiums.
What we all want is for Everton to progress and thrive. It?s already doing that on the pitch and I?m constantly in awe of the love and high standards that its supporters hold for it and of the atmosphere at Goodison that comes through loud and clear on the TV.
But the key to that support is the love of the club and its performance on the pitch. It needs to progress now and not be left behind. Standing still isn?t an option in today?s EPL. We can break into a "Big Five" or "Big Six" if we keep playing the way we have been recently and if we come up with good financial options that are currently available to us in the Kirkby proposal.
The Kirkby option offers an attractive (not beautiful, not magnificent) stadium paid for by a supportive corporate parent that will invest in the team. It?s the best option available to the team, especially compared to the eleventh hour proposals now being floated.
Michael, are you and the other opponents of Kirkby seriously telling us that you won?t support Everton after they move just four miles down the road outside of town? Don?t you and the other supporters of this club love your team enough to go that distance? Won?t the atmosphere at a Kirkby stadium be as good, if not better, than at any other alternative location within Liverpool city limits? Is it farfetched to think that the existing fans will all go to games at a Kirkby stadium while some newer fans, perhaps not diehards, but corporate types or those attracted to the team?s success on the pitch, will now go to Everton games because of the attractive new facilities?
These types of major changes to stadium locations aren?t just traumatic in England. We have them in the U.S. and doubtless in other areas of Europe. But a move four miles down the road is really a relatively small relocation to most of the world and one that most clubs would take in stride given the timely benefits that will accrue with the Kirkby option.
I urge my fellow Everton supporters to seize this imperfect but best opportunity while we have it and not to lose it based on notable but less significant drawbacks.
15 Posted 31/07/2007 at 00:23:06
16 Posted 31/07/2007 at 00:25:56
17 Posted 31/07/2007 at 00:13:55
18 Posted 31/07/2007 at 00:43:43
19 Posted 31/07/2007 at 01:17:07
We have to grasp this opportunity now because if we don’t the spectre of Speke or even frigging Cronton (remember that?) may come back to haunt us as expensive alternatives a few years down the line - don’t even mention that tiny site at Scottie Road.
A world class 50-60,000 stadium is within our grasp for literally peanuts and we must grab it now.
20 Posted 31/07/2007 at 02:00:25
Visit the place before slagging it off.
21 Posted 31/07/2007 at 02:37:42
Been supporting the blues since I was 10 and that was in 1985. I managed to get further my education in Sheffield in 90s and still able to go to Goodison on quite a number of occasions. I have memories of Goodison and I make sure I always get the seat behind the goal at Glawdys Street. That said, I will still want Everton to move forward. We have no money, so unless LCC can prove that toe loop works, come up with a design and costing in the next few days; I’m quite okay with Kirkby. And I as a foreigner know that Kirkby is full of hospitable Liverpudlians.
22 Posted 31/07/2007 at 02:34:16
23 Posted 31/07/2007 at 03:13:12
but, it’s all relative....remember if Everton were a NFL team they would be holding some city for ransom and threatening to move somewhere else to get a new stadium.. Be thankful it doesn’t work like that...
24 Posted 31/07/2007 at 03:22:57
25 Posted 31/07/2007 at 03:28:18
To all those who oppose moving a couple of miles outside the current Liverpool boundary do you realise that when Everton moved to Goodison it was also outside the boundary of Liverpool at the time? Should we have never moved to Goodison? The answer is no, at the time we had to move to the best available site for the future of the club. Same applies now.
26 Posted 31/07/2007 at 06:41:37
27 Posted 31/07/2007 at 07:22:39
Now it’s quite the opposite, we rushed through all the preliminary stages within eight months but is it any better only because it has been quicker?
You see, my problem is that I’m feeling being held at ransom. It’s a typical Tesco thing isn’t it? Aggressive business, choose us now or rust in peace.
It’s absolutely subjective but I don’t like deals without alternatives, it’s that simple. What I’d like to see is having at least two sites (ideally three or four) being explored as to logistic and financial feasibility and then the club having a decision (ballot or no ballot) afterwards.
My bitter experience is that you always have to pay the price somewhere for exclusivity. Just look at the PL TV deals: over the years Sky had exclusive rights, we got decent money, but now they’ve been forced to flog it and see what’s happened. That’s the difference between exclusive deals and market prices.
I’m not against Kirkby in particular, I’m against any deal with no alternatives.
28 Posted 31/07/2007 at 07:44:35
29 Posted 31/07/2007 at 08:21:15
30 Posted 31/07/2007 at 08:38:54
History. History. I hear this all the time.
Sadly for 30 odd years this has been the case and it is getting more and more the case.
Burnley. Blackpool. Preston. Sheffield Wed. History.
31 Posted 31/07/2007 at 09:25:59
32 Posted 31/07/2007 at 09:34:47
33 Posted 31/07/2007 at 09:49:50
What do they think of Aintree?
Some of the logic expressed at times on here would make you think that the Grand National is a Southport race not a Liverpool race due to both being in Sefton.
34 Posted 31/07/2007 at 09:54:01
So Alan by the same token, as we are nearer to areas of outer Liverpool and Knowsley and Lancashire will all the Liverpool fans in Kirkby etc start supporting us? I’d suspect not and niether will it be the case the other way about.
35 Posted 31/07/2007 at 09:47:57
In the early 1980s when we struggled in front of small crowds and Liverpool seemed to win the championship, or the cup, or the European Cup virtually every year - that’s when I feared for our future because I couldn’t see why any young kid would support us. Thankfully they did and I’m sure the still will, even if we move to Kirkby.
And if Liverpool had decided to move to Kirkby - and they did look at the idea - do you think their fans would talk about surrendering the city to us, or be worried that young scousers would desert them for us?
What we need is a successful team, and although Kirkby is not the ideal solution, it’s the best offer at this time and I don’t see how we can afford to turn it down.
36 Posted 31/07/2007 at 10:04:32
37 Posted 31/07/2007 at 10:26:52
If the deal was so good why has Wyness had to constantly change his story and move the goalposts?
If there really were no other options available why was an exclusivity arrangement necessary in the first place?
Tesco are not stupid - something you can’t say about the board and some fans.
This will cost us more than you all realise in terms of money, fans and eventually stature. We are already falling from our previously lofty position - Kirkby will be like tying an extra weight to our feet and increasing the rate of descent.
38 Posted 31/07/2007 at 10:52:47
How far exactly is this new ground from this arbitrary Liverpool borough border anyway ?, 1.5 miles, surely this is a small compromise to getting a brand new stadium on the cheap and within 3 years...its hardly doing a Wimbledon and moving 70 miles....that could put us in Leeds?and look what has happened there !!!!
39 Posted 31/07/2007 at 10:52:34
Absolutely ridiculous statement! So you’re saying whatever percentage votes for a move against relocating,that they’re all gobshites dressed as blues. As a serious matter for the future of our club,keep your outlandish statements to a red site and give us proper blues a place where we can have a serious discussion. Pleb
40 Posted 31/07/2007 at 10:41:29
What I want to point out is when somebody tells me not to look a gift horse in the mouth, Troy comes to my mind.
I can’t help but ask the question: have Tesco become the megacorp they are by giving generous gifts to football clubs in need of quick cash for a new stadium?
It may yet come to pass that we will be the proud exception that proves the rule. Only the chances seem slimmer than Beattie scoring a hat-trick against Werder Bremen.
I don’t want to persuade anyone to vote this or that way. Tesco may well be the only viable option in our situation. But to think that we are being given a gift we won’t have to repay is simply silly. We’ll obviously pay dearly for both scenarios. I wish I knew which one would be dearer.
41 Posted 31/07/2007 at 11:01:12
We will regret it for a VERY long time if we turn this down in favour of pipedreams and mirages.
42 Posted 31/07/2007 at 11:28:53
I am 100% against the move to Kirkby. I must’ve mistakenly paid hundreds of pounds every year for the last 24 years for my season tickets.
Very careless for a red who is in fact someone so biased a blue that he won’t even drive past their ground, never mind go in it.
43 Posted 31/07/2007 at 10:41:23
What will keep fans following Everton? Success and good players, NOTHING ELSE!
44 Posted 31/07/2007 at 11:27:35
The reason for alienation for some fans?, well Chris Roberts and Alan Rodgers sum it up quite well. The future of the club is reliant on future generations of fans filling it. To wrench the club away from it’s traditional support base and just expect there to be no long term impact on attendances is madness
Like it or not, people choose to support football teams for emotive/tribal reasons. Kids growing up in the centre of Liverpool in the future would find only one club in the city. A kid in a classroom electing to choose Everton would be castigated for choosing to affiliate to a club which is identified as not part of ’Liverpool’ in anyway. Sorry, but that just the way it will work
We currently get about 36k average attendance and the club is basing all it’s future projections and income streams on attendances in the order of 50-55k. This move will generate some natural wastage of fans as after the honeymoon period of having a new stadium certain supporters will choose not to go because of the extra inconvenience - that’s just a fact of life. I just haven’t seen anything to convince me where this extra 20k of support is going to come from, not to mention how additional corporate attendance will be persuaded to travel out to Kirkby rather than staying in the city centre. I don’t go with this idea either that there is a huge, untapped reservoir of support in the East Lancs area just waiting to be snapped up. As another person said, these families already have their own affiliations. It is not some new town scenario
I have just read the glossy brochure to be sent out to fans and it’s obvious that the reason for going ahead with this move is because we are getting it on the cheap and should bite Tesco’s hand off. It pays no consideration to the long term effects. I just a fear a situation where we are getting 30,000 odd support or less and unable to do any of the things financially that the whole scheme was designed for. Then we would seriously be up shit creek
45 Posted 31/07/2007 at 11:48:50
46 Posted 31/07/2007 at 11:34:09
47 Posted 31/07/2007 at 12:09:54
I think you misunderstand me I don’t think that we’ll lose support by moving four miles. I was quoting an earlier poster who thought that and was running a counterpoint. Problem with this form is you can’t put things in italics etc.
48 Posted 31/07/2007 at 12:14:57
49 Posted 31/07/2007 at 11:17:54
Beware of Greeks (Tesco’s)bearing gifts. An allusion to the story of the wooden horse of Troy, used by the Greeks to trick their way into the city.
It is recorded in Virgil’s Aeneid, Book 2, 19 BC: "Do not trust the horse, Trojans(Evertonians). Whatever it is, I fear the Greeks (Tesco’s) even when they bring gifts."
Of course that English version is a translation. Another translation, by John Dryden, has "Trust not their presents, nor admit the horse."
The same thought was also recorded by Sophocles (496 - 406 BC), in Ajax:
Nought from the Greeks towards me hath sped well.
So now I find that ancient proverb true,
Foes’ gifts are no gifts: profit bring they none.
Tesco seek profit ruthlessly and don’t care whether it is at the expense of a third-world farmer, sweat-shop worker or an Evertonian. If we don’t very closely look this gift horse in the mouth to examine its worth then we will be left to look up its arse as it trots away to seek more profit to see what shit really comes out of it.
50 Posted 31/07/2007 at 12:44:33
51 Posted 31/07/2007 at 12:51:59
52 Posted 31/07/2007 at 12:46:13
People are talking about us not being able to fill a 50K Stadium but want to redevelop Goodison - do they want it to stay at 40K?
If we don’t fill the new ground, it doesnt matter because we’ve only had to shell out about £15m anyway (i.e. we won’t be in debt like some other teams 4 miles away will be). look at Arsenal. You’re not telling me that Wenger never wanted Eto’o or some other world class players but they are still paying for their new stadium.
53 Posted 31/07/2007 at 13:19:41
The fact remains - that until Everton start winning trophies our support will be around the 35k mark wherever we move to.
54 Posted 31/07/2007 at 12:55:24
55 Posted 31/07/2007 at 13:35:56
56 Posted 31/07/2007 at 12:37:00
so at the end of the day it has to be Kirkby
57 Posted 31/07/2007 at 13:27:20
The big problem I have with it though is the lack of information on which to base our decision. Let’s face it, the vast majority of those who will soon be putting an x in one of the boxes will do so without a true idea of what the ACTUAL cost will be to the club should we move, nor of the true feasibility of our "other options" (assuming of course that they do exist). Sure, lots has been written on both sides, but partly because of the relative silence of the club on this, it’s close to impossible to separate the cold hard facts from the conjecture / pipe dreams.
Personally, I would never choose to make an important decision like this without first making sure I had done everything possible to ensure my choice was an informed one. How can we then be essentially expected to make this decision for the club?
I think the poster who suggested lobbying for a delay to the vote while alternatives are explored more fully has hit the nail on the head. Otherwise, as far as I can see, it’s just going to be emotionally fuelled guesswork for most of us.
58 Posted 31/07/2007 at 14:09:03
Partnership with a bully might be beneficial but more often than not it isn’t.
It’s not a zero sum game, it’s true. We have much more to lose than what they can gain. If their expectations aren’t fulfilled, we could easily find ourselves dumped from "our" shiny new stadium.
59 Posted 31/07/2007 at 14:01:07
At the moment it is very simple, match ends, then either walk into town or get a taxi. Brilliant, and the city is still growing! It’s the biggest regeneration project in Europe. Furthermore i take my business clients to Goodison for meetings but if it’s in Kirby I won’t bother at it’s not cost effective to travel from the city. I’ll just hire somewhere closer like a function suite in a hotel.
60 Posted 31/07/2007 at 14:43:59
The difference between us and the team 4 miles away is that they will be able to fill their stadium.
They have a massive waiting list, we don’t have any waiting list.
Let’s for one minute think about buisness for corporate boxes.
You have a choice of going to the other place. Well within reach of the city and all it’s amenities or off to Kirkby to the Tesco dome in the middle of nowhere.
where as an outside buisness would you go?
The city is expanding and it’s regeneration will never reach that far out.
I have said before on this site that Tesco are not in this out of the goodness of their heart.
Anyone who thinks that is a deluded fool.
Bu know what ? I’m fed up with it now and couldn’t give a shit anymore.
If we move and go under,what the hell. Because you see. Everybody has their opinions and feelings about the move, mine will be caution and regret if it happens.
I know i won’t go to the new stadium because it won’t feel right and doesn’t feel right.
It won’t stop me being a blue. I will always be a blue, just a none match going blue.
But these are MY! personal feelings.
So at least respect them on that basis.
61 Posted 31/07/2007 at 15:40:46
Has that affected them, I won’t even insult you by giving an answer to that one........
62 Posted 31/07/2007 at 15:52:10
63 Posted 31/07/2007 at 16:26:25
Accepting your argument that kids will follow their parents teams, why does it make a difference that, according to Wyness, we will get new support; "Kirkby will bring 4 million households within 45 minutes drive".
Firstly, I’d dispute that figure - that would be about a third of the poplulation of the UK.
But in any event, those 4 million must already be with 1 hour of Goodison. Won’t they already have other teams to support, and why will our moving to Kirkby change them, if it won’t change the existing Everton supporters?
If they’re only an hour away, why don’t they come now?
64 Posted 31/07/2007 at 16:27:14
My brother is a planning lawyer working on several regeneration projects for 2008. After the completion of the work late 2007, Liverpool will not be eligable for anymore public or european grants for new projects, they will all have to be privately funded.
Thats not to say that LCC can not fund a project or donate land - they just wont be able to access any regeneration grants.
65 Posted 31/07/2007 at 16:26:58
*He cites Southampton as pre-move 15,000, post move 30,000. That?s because The Dell could only hold 15,000. There were a lot more fans wanting to go every week, which is why they built a new stadium*
I say everton pre-move 37,000 average post move 47-50,000 average because goodison only has 37,000 unobstructed views, prob more fans wanting to go but not paying for obstructed views which is another reason to build our new stadium.
Billysea, i live in fazakerley in "the city of liverpool", the proposed ground is 10min drive from me?? what does it matter how close to city centre, its in liverpool, sod the "boundaries" that some jobs worth has put in!
Why would a guy who is an avid efc fan wanna shack us/bully us?? as been said, dont have someone coming into buy us, own us decide what we do, who we buy, just someone who is a fan willing to bankroll a new stadium without owning us!
And by the way, i’ve not even decided on a yes vote yet, but the more i hear those against the move and there reasons, it actually swaying me to a yes vote!!!
66 Posted 31/07/2007 at 16:39:17
67 Posted 31/07/2007 at 16:44:18
please dont tell me i’ll not go anymore this just annoys me, i just see it as pathetic dummy spitting! so its not so close to the city centre, so what, my concern is efc and moving forward and if kirkby helps us do that...
68 Posted 31/07/2007 at 16:59:33
What they will actually say is ’Haven’t a clue mate’. And that’s the problem. If we move there, we will the first big team in Britain (maybe the world) that, in the eyes of most people in its home country, comes from nowhere. That’s not meant to insult anyone, it’s just a fact.
69 Posted 31/07/2007 at 17:06:47
70 Posted 31/07/2007 at 17:15:19
So your happy to take your clients to GP where the facilities are outdated but you wont spend the extra £5 on a taxi ride for 4 miles to a brand new stadium with first rate corporate facilities which would actually impress clients more!? .. crikey.. :-)
Genuinely, Im sure your non-evertonian clients would prefer to visit a new stadium with excellent facilities than a run down GP.. very strange thinking there.. but thats your (companies) loss i guess.
71 Posted 31/07/2007 at 18:27:00
72 Posted 31/07/2007 at 18:44:21
In addition, should a No vote go through I would expect Kenright as well as Wyness to fall on their swords since they have staked their reputation on this.
Where would that leave us? Marooned and drifting without a proverbial pot to pi$$ in is where. We simply have to vote yes.
73 Posted 31/07/2007 at 19:02:11
Lets all just agree that Kirby aint that far away, and well lets just get on with it. Tesco are giving us Tens of Millions. I think an instant fix would to redraw the lines and make Kirby offically in Liverpool.
How hard can it be to extend liverpool 4 Miles. Anyone know?
If we unite & all support this it adds extra pressure on our beloved City Council to get the arses in gear and offer us something we can work with to stay in the City.
At first i was against, now im for just to move things on. Lets get talking about the new quality players coming our way.
74 Posted 31/07/2007 at 19:14:39
75 Posted 31/07/2007 at 19:52:32
Kevin Radcliffe (Probley Are Most Succesful Ever Captain)
John Moores (most famous family to have been associated in the long and proud history)
Ronnie Goodlass(Ex-Blues Favourite & Radio Pundit)
Duncan Ferguson (Most Iconic Blue Of The Past 10-20 Years) & Most Of All Howard Kendall (True Blue, Forer Player & Most Succesful EVER Manager) All Against Us Goin There?
Daily Star Sunday 29/7/2007
76 Posted 31/07/2007 at 19:59:16
77 Posted 31/07/2007 at 20:28:48
Are you seriously telling me that a true supporter who wants to see the team is put off going by an obstructed view?
If all I could get was an obstructed view, I might not be too pleased, but it would never stop me going."
Alas yes. I try to get to a game whenever I am back in the city but paying over £30 to get stuck behind a pillar at the back of the Bullen’s Rd with a leaky pipe does sometimes make me wonder if I should do something else if I’m only back for a weekend.
78 Posted 31/07/2007 at 20:52:16
79 Posted 31/07/2007 at 21:28:55
80 Posted 31/07/2007 at 18:34:17
81 Posted 31/07/2007 at 22:07:10
If "Rats" Is Behind The Move Den Why Did He Say -
Kevin Ratcliffe, our most successful ever captian, has put his staunch support behind the KEIOC campaign.
Ratcliffe has emphasised "how sad it would be if we ever leave the ground and the area where so many great memories are held.
"If it wasn’t for Goodison and it’s atmosphere many victories would not
have been accomplished.Yes we need to address the stadium issue, but it
would be a long term disaster for the fan base, especially
"Why divide the fans when together we could accomplish so much. Stay in the City, build the team, and explore the right decision for the long term, think of the kids."
& There’s No PROOF That Kirby Will Generate An Extra 10 Mil.
And If Kendall Has Lent His Name To The Project Then Why Did He Brand Kirby As - "Liverpool Teritory"
82 Posted 31/07/2007 at 22:09:59
If You Have Any More Doubts About My "untruths" then visit this link - http://www.keioc.net/index.php?page=news-archive
There is a picture of Ratcliffe holding a "our city" "our club" "our future" banner?
and here’s a quote from The Star On Sunday - "The most successfulo manager in the club’s history is horrified at the prospect of his old club having to build their new ground outside the city at Kirby"
My Untruths?? Wer’s Ur Proof??
83 Posted 31/07/2007 at 22:19:08
His stance last weekend was markedly different.
84 Posted 31/07/2007 at 22:26:09
85 Posted 31/07/2007 at 22:12:56
86 Posted 01/08/2007 at 00:51:02
fellow blues, allow me to translate : "i shall be voting with my head and not my heart, its a Yes from me, COYB"
87 Posted 01/08/2007 at 02:34:10
And err Liam, past players are NOT the future of our club-WE are the future of our club.They have an opinion as do we all.
I have family in Kirkby, blue and red, it’s part of Liverpool as far as I’m concerned.Before 1974 we were all in Lancashire.If an invisible line on a map blocks our chance of a new stadium we’ll deserve all we get..
88 Posted 01/08/2007 at 02:44:53
Then logic dictates that true supporters shouldn’t be bothered by a move just up the road to Kirkby.In fact,I’ll tell you one thing that does certainly put off potential supporters from travelling to Goodison.Car Parking difficulties and traffic congestion..
89 Posted 01/08/2007 at 14:59:29
"Not Liverpool, Kirkby."
90 Posted 01/08/2007 at 19:54:36
I travel a 350 mile round trip every time I visit GP - some of the so called "hard core" seemingly can’t be arsed travelling 8! If the No vote wins the day - I fear for the future of our great club.
The same voices as shouted down the Kings Dock development are in danger of destroying this one. All this talk of viable alternatives is shyte - it’ll take another 2 years to get to the stage we are now (assuming we can find a similar business partner - which is unlikely to happen to the same level as the Tesco funding) by which time land & construction prices will have risen even further & we’ll end up having to spend 4/5 times the cash (that we haven’t got!) to get the same result - but at least it’ll be in Speke.....
91 Posted 01/08/2007 at 20:46:56
92 Posted 01/08/2007 at 23:36:35
93 Posted 02/08/2007 at 12:33:49
I happen to know Terry Leahy’s brother very well and he is the most passionate Evertonian I’ve ever met, he was nearly in tears when we virtually clinched UEFA Cup football versus Pompey.
Can it not be a mutually beneficial arrangement for both parties?
I for one will be voting a resounding ’YES’.
94 Posted 02/08/2007 at 13:22:46
95 Posted 02/08/2007 at 13:25:38
96 Posted 02/08/2007 at 14:11:25
97 Posted 02/08/2007 at 19:54:52
98 Posted 07/08/2007 at 23:23:50
But for some reason we seem to be being told repent or die, as it’s the only option, we can’t afford anything else, it’s almost like saying your unemployed, your shite, you have to take any shit job that comes along, because it’s your only option, I thought the late 70’s/80’s and Thatcherism had gone?
Of course, since then, we have had the usual Toffeeweb suspects, the anti-Kenwright brigade, also suddenly coming up with, yes, not only a new design for the club with "some" parking, plus, it can fit into this tiny little space, just off a main road, but there won’t be any congestion. Showing us not just photos (at angles, to make it appear bigger) and pictures and tiny drawings that the ground won’t fit into properly and oh yeah, the lovely people at Bestway want to help us, they are so kind, Sorry guys your talking bollocks again, how long to "get rid of dithering Dave" (again?) First home defeat perhaps?
You see I find both sides haven’t thought about it, it’s all a bit domesday scenario and very much last minute and a bit like the King’s Dock in EFC’s case, remember we don’t need a plan B? Sorry somebody is running a multi-million pound business here and the best they can come up with, is a 50/50 phone a (40,000) friend(s)? Oh and by the way, you walk away with nothing and all the Bluenoses in your family will suffer. I’m sure this didn’t happen over 100 years ago and it don’t seem right to me and shouldn’t be happening now.
Obviously the city council and EFC have all been too busy since the Kings Dock fiasco and as usual, the dark side get what they want and we can have the scraps. I’ve seen people post comments about how great the new redshite stadium looks, sorry, to me it looks crap for £300 milllion, but the city council have taken away the Liverpool’s heritage in order to fulfil their dreams. Have you noticed the similar fawnings from Rafa, Gerrard and the rest of the players and management, about how great the stadium looks, note Carraghers, "Everyone’s excited... we have a great stadium... but the designers have come up with...great design, etc.." Familiar sounding bollocks eh? But of course the difference between the dark side and ourselves is, they’ve got much more than just 50,000 "customers" per game, who live all around the world and like Utd, down South too, who not only like clogging up the M6 every week, but love and believe all the hype and are quite happy to go along with the perceived idea that they are "kopites" even if they moved LFC to the Arizona desert, they’d still be kopites.
The truth of the matter is that Blues attendences are on the decrease, average last year was 35,000, were are the other 15,000 coming from? Against Utd and the Reds, yeah, we’ll have another 15,000 more of them inside the ground, nice! Everyone else, forget it. Plus, Im not trying to slag off Kirkby, but as the city of Liverpool is finally starting to recover, why move now? Why would potential investors want to go outside of the city, have none of you been down all the back streets in the city centre and seen what is going on?
There are vast tracts of land along Kirkdale and in the Sandhills area, whre there are train stations and plenty of land, or alog the river? Plus, if your going to make the impossible sound real as with the loop, what about anywhere along Netherfield Road where the crest is on the hill? If only someone had the vision, don’t forget you heard it hear first!
I could go on about how shit the facilities, parking and catering, are at all the new stadiums I’ve been to are and how souless they seem, but hey, i’d possibly be accused of politics and spin, but to my mind, if I was running EFC, I wouldn’t be putting all my eggs into one basket, I’d have plan B & C and not trying to blackmail the fans.
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