All I seem to read, particularly where Tony is concerned, is the scenario where Tony makes a statement of opinion, gets attacked by someone, who Tony attacks, and then it's on for young and old. And the real shame of it is that there are some fantastic points and poignant opinions that get lost amongst the missiles being hurled. Yes, you read that right — for all his negativity, Tony often makes a good argument for his particular point of view. As do Dutch, Connor, Ken and the bulk of contributors to the site.
Let me lay it out for you all right now — we are ALL supporters of the Everton Football club!
- If you support Moyes blindly, you?re a fan of Everton Football Club.
- If you want Moyes out, you?re a fan of Everton Football Club.
- If you believe we play an awful brand of football, you?re a fan of Everton Football Club.
- If you believe getting Cahill, Vaughan etc back will fix that, you?re a fan of Everton Football Club.
- You want 4-2 wins with magnificent end-to-end moves? Or pragmatic 1-0 wins? Guess what? You support Everton!
You know, this might seem like a blinding flash of the obvious to most of you — and I sincerely hope it does. But take a read through old articles, mailbags and comments to find a comment about somebody not being a ?real? fan. It usually concerns one of two differing opinions — the style/makeup of the team, as encapsulated above, or what I?m about to discuss below.
Now, being from the other side of the world, this point drives me nuts ? when people (and there are quite a few) state on this site that if you don?t go to the games, not from Liverpool etc, you?re not a real fan. That is just crap!
Using myself as an example, why should the fact that I?m in Australia exclude me from supporting the team I?ve grown up loving? Yeah, I haven?t been to Goodison. I?ve never had the pleasure of Z-Carsringing in my ears. Does that not mean I jump up and down like a crazed chimp whenever we score an important goal? Does that not mean I bleed when we lose? Does it mean the jibes from Australian Redshites ? too many of the bastards to mention ? don?t sting?
It seems that whenever a slanging match occurs, a barb about somebody's location becomes fair play. There are plenty of passionate and knowledgeable Evertonians in Liverpool, Sheffield, London, New York, Melbourne, Tokyo etc. It disappoints me that this form of xenophobia can exist in a forum, where we are all pushing towards the same goal ? glory for Everton!
We all have our own set of eyes, our own brains, and our own football upbringing. These obviously impact how we see the things that occur on a football pitch. The beauty of a fan site like this, is it allows us all to converse with other Evertonians, of differing footballing knowledge, philosophies, expectations and hopes.
It allows us to see things from multiple points of view ? to expand our own knowledge and understanding of all things Everton. We all have opinions, and we are all right to some degree, but none of us are all knowing creatures. I?m all for lively debate ?in fact it?s perfectly healthy. But some of the slanging matches that go on are juvenile.
As stated earlier, this will be as plain as the nose on your face to the majority, and that pleases me to no end. However, I hope those of you that do partake in these slanging matches read this, think about why you and all the other contributors make the effort to write, and perhaps (hopefully), reign yourselves in a touch.
We all need to get a grip sometimes, and understand that it?s the different types of fans that make up the fabric of the club, both in Liverpool, throughout England, and all over the world.
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
1 Posted 10/10/2007 at 05:39:01
The slanging is pathetic and I am taking a stronger line, deleting posts from anyone who does the following:
- Questions Everton credentials
- Talks about people not being "real fans"
- Suggests supporting Liverpool/other teams
- Wants to see coaching quals or application for managemnt positions
- ... and a host of other obvious crimes against Evertonia.
We created this website to reflect the quality we aspire to in our football club. If each person could just think about that for a moment before they hit the Submit button, we really would have a cracker... and I'd be out of a job!
2 Posted 10/10/2007 at 06:03:49
Perhaps another zero tolerance rule should be added: Anon/stupid names posting?? Ta ra
3 Posted 10/10/2007 at 06:26:28
I can understand some who have sensitive jobs or who are conerned about the associations of having their names posted here. A normal-looking pseudonym (first and last) is fine, and you can be the only one who knows. I just ask that you stick with what you choose and don?t post under multiple names. We do track User IPs and all such posts will be deleted.
Conversely, it?s the "steve"s and the other stupid nicknames who tend to post the rubbish. But keep doing it, as it makes your inane contributions that much easier for me to find and delete.
4 Posted 10/10/2007 at 08:07:12
I’d love to see Marshy and Richard Dodd [is he real or just a piss-take to wind up the likes of Marsh?] sitting next to each other at a game.
5 Posted 10/10/2007 at 08:20:35
So whilst I agree with you that nothing beyond supporting Everton qualifies you as an Everton supporter I do think that context is important in understanding where people are coming from.
6 Posted 10/10/2007 at 08:37:38
I’ve not been coming on here as much lately due to the mindless slagging that goes on when someone expresses an opinion different to others. To be fair it’s not just on TW either and it’s got to the point now where I actually have second thoughts about posting my opinions in case I become embroiled in them!
The main one that gets me is when someone dares to have a moan about the team (tactics, personel, style of play, ect)...isn’t that what these sites are for ffs?!! I’d much rather people vented their frustrations here and on the forums rather than at the ground whilst the blues are playing.
Hopefully as many people as possible will read your article, take note and get back to simply debating all issues blue, rather than starting web wars.
7 Posted 10/10/2007 at 09:02:07
The only problem I have had of late is people saying they will no longer watch or support Everton due to the frequent poor performances.
As I have said in a previous thread, the second you turn you back on Everton you forfeit your right to be called an Evertonian, and what a right to lose
8 Posted 10/10/2007 at 09:20:00
Also I agree 110% with John Holmes (didn’t I use to watch you in my Dads old Betamax movies?!) point about the context in which views are expressed. As a 28 year old life long supporter I myself had my first Goodison experience just a few weeks ago when I travelled a round trip of 500 miles from Gt Yarmouth to watch us in the UEFA Cup against against the Mentalists. And whilst usually as I watch the Blues on Sky or some other dodgy TV channel I am a very calm and relaxed viewer, often ignoring the fact that we are playing some quite awful football, these facts were magnified 100 times as I sat in the Park End, and boy it had me spitting feathers!!! So I whole heartedly understand how you brave season ticket holders must feel at time. But still, can’t wait to get back to Goodison asap!!!!!!!
9 Posted 10/10/2007 at 09:56:05
Michael, I hope you were not referring to all of the "Steve"s on this site, I could get quite paranoid about that comment.
10 Posted 10/10/2007 at 10:40:54
I’ve supported the Blues for 41 years, seeing my first game in 1966 (I think)against West Brom (we won 6 - 4 ah those were the days!) and went regularly until we moved to Scotland in 1979. Since then I’ve watched 1 game live per season when we visit the relations, but living up here shouldn’t preclude me from being a liflong Bluenose. I hurt like hell when we lose ANY game (just ask the missus!) and when the debate was on about the ground I’m afraid I actually felt alienated beause I didn’t live ’in Liverpool’, how bad is that !
I love Goodison, that first game where I walked into the lower Bullens with my dad and the massive crowd roaring the Blues on will always stay with me, its in my blood, alwyas will be and I could NEVER EVER contemplate supporitng another team, it just won’t happen, no matter what those tosspots in charge do. Maybe thats our problem, they know that and know that whatever they do the ’true’ supporter will always be there, painful as it is !!
11 Posted 10/10/2007 at 10:52:21
I know plenty of kopites who believe we play an "awful brand of football"!
12 Posted 10/10/2007 at 10:44:38
13 Posted 10/10/2007 at 10:59:08
14 Posted 10/10/2007 at 11:05:38
You have united us all, I thank you on behalf of the kingdom of Everton.
15 Posted 10/10/2007 at 10:21:00
"Fans" of this nature are not needed at this club. I am proud to support this club for almost eighteen years now. of course its been frustrating in the past twelve or even twenty years but having adolescent tantrums and moments of spotaneous silliness does help the club by any means. Lets lead by example.
16 Posted 10/10/2007 at 11:26:12
""Fans" of this nature are not needed at this club."
If people feel so angry about the ground move and want to show their protest by no longer attending the home games then so be it.
But please don’t question their credentials as a fan.
17 Posted 10/10/2007 at 11:15:49
18 Posted 10/10/2007 at 12:40:07
I too used to be a regular reader but have been put off lately due to the eternal whinging and negativity in the articiles and comments.
I haven’t been to Goodison in about 4 years - but I got flights and accomodation for under ?100 (around stg£65) so I’m travelling over for the Larissa match with a mate. Can’t wait! Anyone know when the tickets go on sale?
19 Posted 10/10/2007 at 12:59:16
I’m originally from liverpool now in London and travel to Home games and away.
I’ve had it myself with being a southern blue. Small town mentallity springs to mind when people question why you and others don’t support annother team.
Ibet your story is more interseting about you being a blue than others who livein the imediate vacinty of goodison.
Comes to mind. Why don’t we have a collection of storys entitled "why i’m a blue". mightmake an interesting read or better still a book!
What you all reckon? I bet there are some good storys out there waiting to be told.
20 Posted 10/10/2007 at 12:29:50
i love the everton "pie" so i love the team, the stadium, the kit, the fans, everything
fair enough if your gutted about the stadium move but saying "i won’t follow them anymore" is a joke
you support everton, not goodison
get a grip
21 Posted 10/10/2007 at 13:14:35
From sensible road
(Which is more than i can say for this post)
22 Posted 10/10/2007 at 13:16:06
23 Posted 10/10/2007 at 14:24:06
24 Posted 10/10/2007 at 14:22:14
25 Posted 10/10/2007 at 14:40:16
26 Posted 10/10/2007 at 15:42:51
27 Posted 10/10/2007 at 15:49:40
28 Posted 10/10/2007 at 16:16:42
Really good article Jarrod ? you want to try being from Kirkby, you really did feel like an outcast at one point!
Like some fans have already said I too don?t come on here as often due to the ?slagging each other off? mentality of the vocal minority and I?m certainly more hesitant of getting involved in the debates. Quite interesting that the usual suspects have yet to comment??
Nice one to Toffeweb for trying to deal with the issue as well
29 Posted 10/10/2007 at 18:19:14
Well done to both and long may it continue.
30 Posted 10/10/2007 at 19:13:16
Just kidding, lad! You’d think an article like this wouldn’t even be necessary, since we’re all part of the same team. But given some of the nonsense I’ve read on here from fans over the past couple of months, some people could use a reminder of that - and your article does it very well.
Part of supporting a common cause is the "club" feeling you get from doing it and the cameraderie among other fans.
So it’s sad to see differences of opinion over Moyes, the style of play, the personnel, the stadium move, etc. spilling over into insults and the INTENSELY ANNOYING habit that some people have of questioning your level of support and status as a fan, depending on where you live and labelling themselves as better than you because of it.
I’ve been an Everton fan since I was 7. I’m now 30. My parents were both born and raised in Liverpool and tried to raise me as a Liverpool fan like them. They succeeded with my younger bro, but failed with me!
I’ve been to numerous Everton games over the years and I’ll never forget the feeling of walking up the steps to the balcony and seeing the field for first time when I went to my first game (Man City back in 1984 or 1985 - a drab 0-0 draw, but I got to see my idol, Big Nev, play in goal).
I live in America now and have done since September 2000, so I can’t get to games as often. But does that make me any less a fan? No way. Many games are still shown on Fox Soccer Channel and Setanta here - both live and on delay - so I head down to the pub as I would in England and watch the boys whenever they’re on. I’ve even got my girlfriend into the Blues and love teaching her about the game, competitions and the players.
Thanks for saying what should seem pretty obvious to all Evertonians, but is a great way to spell it out.
31 Posted 10/10/2007 at 20:54:03
But now for the wrist-slapping: Gerard Madden. You made enough trouble during the stadium debate as I recall and it’s like you’re looking for any opportunity to continue. But what really gets me is you promulgating this "super duper uber blues" shite. It’s not true, so just drop it.
The people who get articles posted on this website are the ones who take the time and trouble to write those articles and who feel they have something worthwhile to say. We make the final judgement but VERY FEW articles that are submitted are not posted. And that judgement has nothing to do with STATUS or STANDING of the author and everything to do with STYLE and STANDARD of the article. And if you don’t know what I’m talking about, this one by Jarrod and the latest form John Holmes are classic examples.
If you can’t at least show some respect to those who take the time and effort to write these articles... well, to be honest, I’d prefer not to hear from you if that is all you can come up with.
Regarding Tony’s name-calling, yes there is some validity to those complaints although at one level I think it actually adds some colour to Tony’s pieces. I can’t quite see that calling someone a Moyes Minnion/Zealot/Appologist and claiming someone is not a true Everton fan are the same level, personally. The former is perhaps a gratuitous generalization that has some accepted meaning whereas the second is simply dispicable and abhorent. However, calling Moyes a "useless jock" is a over the top and I should have done something about that at the time.
I’ll take a stronger line editing Tony’s work if those who really don’t like what he is saying will either refrain from reading (after all, so you claim, he’s just saying the same thing again and again, right? So why bother reading?) or refrain from posting their usual unhelpful and derogatory comments, which are also somewhat repetitive. Tony speaks a for number of Evertonians, of that I am sure, and he will continue to be published on this website along with any others who wish to contribute articles that are relevant to Everton. Thanks for reading!
32 Posted 10/10/2007 at 21:10:55
Your right, hes an Evertonian
Sorry, this article obviously gave some of you a nice warm glow, but whilst I agree with some of the points made, I cant help feeling lectured
I travelled back from Newcastle with a guy who had just taken the scenic route from Ukraine, or more accurately I gave him a lift as he was just about penniless. He was incandescent over our inability to do the basics, he called everyone connected to the club every name under the sun. By the time I dropped him off he was transformed, he was upbeat and telling me The defeat was only a minor set back and the shite will be the first to feel the back lash
I’m so pleased that I resisted the urge to tell him to "Reign himself in" coz guess what ?
he was a proper, proper Evertonian
Some people claim to be Great blues, others just are
33 Posted 10/10/2007 at 23:22:06
The fella that you dropped home is quite entitled to his opinions at the match — hell, I spend most Saturday nights yelling at my TV. That?s what happens in the heat of the moment.
My point is that when we get on the PC and start writing here, some of the emotion spills over into places it shoudn?t.
Your mate was pissed off after that game, and so he should have — seriously rode our luck. But i?d hope he didn?t jump on a fansite and start slagging off fellow fans.
Sorry if you felt lectured — wasn?t my intention. Just want to get back to debating rather than insulting.
34 Posted 10/10/2007 at 23:31:14
You’ve got me worried now. I’ve posted loads of times all with a heartfelt opinion, but also hopefully with respect for others.
should I get my name changed by deed pole? ’Steve’ no longer appears acceptable!
For all the Steves out there, I really must protest!
35 Posted 10/10/2007 at 23:48:35
You can sum it up in the old adage
You do not become a Blue, you’re born a Blue
36 Posted 11/10/2007 at 00:18:55
37 Posted 11/10/2007 at 06:58:50
there is no need to appologise mate, I worded my post clumsily anyway, The point I am making is Evertonians are different, Everton are different, we are not a team who have dominated for long periods, but just about every decade we come from relativly nowhere to glory, this leaves generations of blues with totaly a different perspective of our club.
The sensitive soles who dont like outpourings of heartfelt passion need to understand that sometimes the pc is the only form of comunication with fellow blues
I agree with you about nasty insults - no need - but surely having such "healthy debate" should NEVER be censored
Most of us are a couple of slices short, but unlike other fans, we will never be sheep
38 Posted 11/10/2007 at 08:14:54
Like Jarrod, I’m an overseas supporter ? from Malaysia, and now in Thailand. Never been to Goodison to watch a live game, never been able to meet or even catch a glimpse of a player in person, never heard Z-Cars live. I can only follow Everton through satellite TV (ESPN or Star on Astro) and the internet. But just like Jarrod (and the rest of you!) watching Everton play on television brings me to emotional extremes. When Everton win, the rest of the day is just great and the week is full of hope and optimism. When Everton lose, ... well, you know.
Like some of you, I can’t explain how I ended up being with Everton. I do remember it was in the mid-eighties when I first decided they would be my team of choice. Names that spring to mind like Lineker, Southall, Ratcliffe, Sheedy, van den Hauwe. I only had a taste of how good we were back then. And then, the nineties and new millenium came and being an Everton supporter was painful.... Still, I stood by them even though everybody had a good laugh at my expense during those times.
Some of my notable memories of being an overseas Everton supporter...
Having my friend buy back two jerseys (home and away kit) from England when he was a student there. I still have them back home ? the away kit at that time was the yellow & blue striped kind; our sponsor was Danka. They were 2 or 3 sizes too big. I would put them on for my Sunday kickabouts and really I shouldn’t have! Because everytime I put them on, I felt nervous because in the back of my mind, I would be telling myself I would have to play inhumanely superb so as not to bring shame to the jersey and the team it stood for!! I would feel bad if I didn’t score after the game and vow not to put it on again for a game. But then I would still wear it in the following weeks... !
When Everton beat Man Utd in the 1995 FA Cup Final. Immediately after the game, I rang up my friend who was a Man Utd fan. I didn’t even say hello or anything, just starting laughing over the phone and he knew straight up who it was and why I’d called :)
One of the sillier things was when in school, I resigned from a position in the prefect’s board and that very morning (it was a Saturday I remember) after I had handed in my resignation, I came back to read in the news that Howard Kendall had also resigned ? as manager from Everton. It’s a stupid connection I confess, but back then, it just cemented some sort of bond in my soul about how connected I was to Everton.
Thanks to Jarrod and all the supportive-sounding fellow fans out there. Yes, there are other people outside Merseyside who have decided to get behind the team in blue. For whatever reasons, God only knows. But today, I’m really glad and proud to stand up and be counted as an Evertonian.
39 Posted 11/10/2007 at 09:22:01
40 Posted 11/10/2007 at 12:03:59
A brilliant article and totally states what the majority have felt for a long time.
We all support EFC and people who just want to whine and whine do us a favour and pull your heads in go to the the doctor get some prozac and ring the samaritans!
The moaners and groaners are taking over and it’s down to US to stop it, if want a bitch fest set up your own site and all moan together.
We all love our club good or bad but hey let’s be positive and be grateful for what we’ve got - jeez UEFA group stages we’d have killed for that a couple of years ago oh and by the way we’re still 5th even after a so called bad start.
COYB Love it.
41 Posted 11/10/2007 at 12:44:56
Can you please post this article on the homepage as a main article to show the depressive element what the majority think.
LET’S MAKE THIS A POSITIVE SITE.
42 Posted 11/10/2007 at 12:32:47
If i had the money i’d have you booked on the next flight over so you could watch the derby ,you could even have my ticket.
i’ve been golng that long, that i take it for granted,after reading your letter, i’ll defo appreciate it more.
43 Posted 11/10/2007 at 14:22:54
44 Posted 11/10/2007 at 15:11:17
45 Posted 11/10/2007 at 15:44:39
I view toffeeweb as the central resource for Everton news, I "run" a site for us Northern Ireland supporters, but we are sunday pub team in comparison to this site (so much so that I often think of jacking it in). But what makes is all fans is our support for the blues and our desire to see us winning every trophy under the sun - though I guess some people would still find time to complain (just look at some critics of mourinho’s style of football).
In terms of locality, we have over 300 members of Northern Ireland Supporters club (www.escni.co.uk), who all feverently support the blues, on average 30-40 travel to each home game through the club. Does this make us a lesser supporter because we dont all go to every game and dont have a liverpool accent? - no i dont think so.
Years ago, travelling to a game involved an overnight trip on a generally rough ride across the irish sea, arriving in liverpool pre-7am and returning on another overnight ferry ride. Total cost approx £100, three trips a year and its roughly the price of a season ticket. Now its easier with low cost airlines (though with costs of flights, car parking and taxis, no real financial savings over ferry), but all the same Is this not dedication, is this not what makes us real fans? I only wish I lived near a stadium where Everton played 1 mile, 5 miles or 20 miles down the road so I could go every game, but as i dont, finances and family life limit the opportunities to a few times a season.
So So Jarrod, here here and long may toffeeweb be the voice of Evertonians around the world.
Good Job guys!
46 Posted 11/10/2007 at 16:07:25
47 Posted 11/10/2007 at 16:35:53
48 Posted 11/10/2007 at 23:19:45
Here’s hoping you win the lotto!
I believe there’s a derby coming up.....
49 Posted 12/10/2007 at 11:15:47
You’re quite right everyone has an opinion but let’s not stoop to the levels of other clubs when it comes to being negative, we’ve alot to be optimistic about and 10 years ago we’d ve been delighted to be in our current situation.
50 Posted 12/10/2007 at 13:07:21
An enjoyable read, and I particularly admire your commitment and passion for the club from such a long distance. I have just got back from a holiday in Oz, and although I enjoyed the Aussie Rules and NRL, I found the time difference frustrating for checking on results and even viewing the game. Its unfortunate I didn’t come across you, because all I saw was redshite. But its ok, I wore my Everton shirt everywhere, even when I happily cuddled a Koala to the amusement of many onlookers, claiming he was a blueboy....!!!!
Michael, get this guy to write more on the site, because it is quite satisfying to read the overall positive response it has generated, and we need to value all the support we have from outside Liverpool, more than we currently do.
51 Posted 12/10/2007 at 16:36:14
Then ,at the end of April I got myself a girlfriend. Like any other person my partner has become a high priority in my life and I have to admit that football has taken somewhat more of a back seat. To add to this the weekend is the only time that we really have to do stuff as a couple. She works Monday to Friday and her son’s dad takes him at the weekend. As a result my sky sports package is pretty much lying idle and I have gotten to watch very little by the way of Everton highlights this season. At this stage I’m left with the papers and sites like this one.
In my own mind this does not make me any less of a fan. I’m not as knowledgable as I was was season, given that I’m not watching games, that’s fair enough. But I still care about the club, I still want to see it do well and I do still want to be as informed as I possibly can. To some fans I will now be a rubbish supporter, my opinion will be even less valid than it was last season, given that I’m living over here. But in my own mind what makes a supporter, what makes a fan is caring enough to do what you can, when you can, in an honest and civil manner.
52 Posted 12/10/2007 at 22:54:46
There’s been too much bickering between Blues of late - mostly surrounding the ground move - an issue which has proved divisive IMO.
There’s also a "anti Moyes Lobby" that over react every time we have a bad result & start posting incredibly negative articles - then disappear when we win a couple of games......
This site needs more positive threads like this - most Blues perception of this site is that it’s attitude is predominantly "glass half empty"................
53 Posted 13/10/2007 at 10:27:09
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