Much has been made over the past few years of the fact that Everton FC has proclaimed itself as the People's Club in Liverpool. Indeed, when the vote for Kirby was much publicised in the press and in many forums, it echoed that the people had spoken and made their choice. It gave the green light for the club to discuss its future with Kirkby as its new home.
The mandate the club received was not from all the people but a select few, to assess the viability of the offer to partner Tesco in a new retail park. Ok, we have assessed it, Guess what? We don?t particularly like what we see. But aside from that we should ask the club to put the proposal back to the people. Do we like what we see? Are we happy with the proposal now that we can see what it looks like and all the implications? Or should we blindly trust that the Board of Directors have got it right and should press on regardless of any objection or, god forbid, alternative proposal?
Should not the Echo be asked to run its real People Poll and ask all to answer the following five questions and place that as a petition back to the club? Let us see then how they can justify such a travesty on the tradition and supporters of Everton FC should a poll come back with a resounding negative result.
The Questions? Ok, they may be stilted slightly but then if we are faced with a poor solution should we not be asking pointed questions that make the decision makers justify their actions?
- Do you believe Kirkby is the best site for Everton FC? Answer: Yes / No / Don?t Care/ Doesn?t matter
- Do you believe the proposed stadium alliance with Tesco will benefit the standing of the club? Answer: Yes / No / Doesn?t Matter
Do you think Everton FC should
- A: Accept the current Kirkby proposal
- B: Redevelop Goodison Park as the clubs future home
- C: Build a stand alone stadium within the city limits
- D: Keep looking for better alternatives
- Liverpool is the City of Culture for 2008; how should Everton FC be marketed in light of this and any Tesco alliance?
- Do you believe the Everton FC Board of Directors will listen to any other proposals? Answer: Yes / No
Before the Yes votes come out of the woodwork and say, "Here we go again..." Listen up. It?s called debate. Just because the club had a vote to see if there was sufficient support to continue negotiations does NOT mean they have the mandate to make poor decisions without putting it to all the stakeholders of the club. For your information, every citizen of Liverpool has a view, Red or Blue. Every supporter of Everton has a view ? not just selected season ticket holders. We are all Stakeholders.
If we are truly the Peoples Club then be prepared to listen to ALL of the people. We may NOT be the best people to assess the viability of options but that is not our job. That?s the Board?s job. We may make it more difficult but at least we will know the honesty of any proposal. As supporters or even as citizens of Liverpool, our job is to remind the club who supports them, where they get their money from (well some of it) and what it means to be proud of your club. That is our birthright and our legacy to future generations of Evertonians.
If the Board of Directors believe we truly are the People's Club then let them have the balls to stand by our decisions. At least it will allow an honest appraisal of what we believe the club should be doing.
Put the idea to the Echo and ask them to run it and let the people vote. All of them. It will be the most effective way to get a message to the club, the peoples voice.
That?s a People's Club!
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1 Posted 20/11/2007 at 15:00:57
Better to do it on a tear off slip in one of the match day programmes, however, the result , like the previous one, would probably be a nap
2 Posted 20/11/2007 at 15:18:59
You have answered your own question. The Board have decided to move to Kirkby. End of!
3 Posted 20/11/2007 at 15:50:46
End of ALERT End of ALERT
Michael, another one?s got through the net
For F?s sake Bob....grow up and stop behaving with such supercilious contempt for fellow Evertonians who are genuinely concerned by the split in our ranks and its cause
4 Posted 20/11/2007 at 16:13:29
Roll on Saturday 3pm Sunderland at Goodison Park, full house, obstructed view, some scally minding my car, walking through dogshit to get to the ground, warm Chang, cold pie, pint at Orries on the way in, bloke next to me eating a bag of greasy chips, daughter's coke stuck down me trousers as the top is still on the bottle, season ticket doesnt work at the gate. LUV IT, bring on Saturday
5 Posted 20/11/2007 at 16:20:12
Firstly, as Steve says, the vote would probably be influenced by reds as they also happen to read the echo.
Secondly, question 2 of the poll would be a disaster as not everyone who reads the Echo has anywhere near enough information available to them on new sites and alternative proposals etc. to make an informed decision.
Hearts in the right place, heads elsewhere I’m afraid.
6 Posted 20/11/2007 at 16:28:44
7 Posted 20/11/2007 at 16:44:59
We could redevelop or build another ground in the city (i.e. the loop) but this would only lead us LEEDS 2 situation! (You can?t make the scene if you haven?t got the green.) Why is that so hard for people to understand!
8 Posted 20/11/2007 at 17:01:37
9 Posted 20/11/2007 at 17:03:37
A - Move to Kirby
B - Move to the Loop (Plus give the club 150million so they can do this)
Anyone picked B? If so get in touch with Bill
10 Posted 20/11/2007 at 17:01:44
11 Posted 20/11/2007 at 17:08:47
12 Posted 20/11/2007 at 17:23:27
13 Posted 20/11/2007 at 17:39:07
That is, if you can make yourself heard over the tannoy from next door, ?Fruit and Veg Supervisor to checkout 103, please!?
God forgive you, because history won?t.
14 Posted 20/11/2007 at 17:58:51
We are moving, nothing is going to change that now.
I am totally in favour of the move, I am totally fine with us going to Kirby.
I think the only concern for me is what the stadium looks like, It needs to be unique and not a replica of so many cheap stadia that go up these days.
But at the the end of the day, its all about Everton winning games and us supporting them through thick and thin, not all bickering amongst ourself on a mute subject.
15 Posted 20/11/2007 at 18:21:00
16 Posted 20/11/2007 at 18:26:22
17 Posted 20/11/2007 at 18:44:46
18 Posted 20/11/2007 at 18:56:41
This man has got it SPOT ON....
Stop moaning and enjoy the whole football thing. Evertonians are born and not Manufactured. I ll go where ever they play and that included Nurnberg.
Support the team and Manager!
19 Posted 20/11/2007 at 20:08:47
20 Posted 20/11/2007 at 20:53:16
The poll was as fair as it possibly could be. The ground move was not unanimously well received but it’s done and dusted. I have reservations about the move but unless a viable alternative is on the cards NOW, what’s the point of another poll?
One thing that would be far worse than a move to Kirkby is paraylsis - constantly checking the temperature of the fans’ feelings but achieving absolutely nothing.
21 Posted 20/11/2007 at 16:52:17
I voted no but some of my yes voting friends are starting to think twice about their choice and you can understand why. It seems to me the board released a series of images and statement's to convince the fans this was the right thing to do and once they had secured the votes did no more to impress the fan's and started to put more of an emphasis on the fact they were giving the residents of Kirkby a nice new supermarket and retail park.
Yes voter's must be feeling they only got one chance to let the board know how they feel about the move. Surely something as big as this people should be allowed to change their minds?
22 Posted 20/11/2007 at 22:12:54
The true supporters of this club, YES or NO voters need to get behined the TEAM, DM and support this club.
23 Posted 20/11/2007 at 22:05:29
And please don’t tell me to get over it, because I never will.
24 Posted 20/11/2007 at 22:27:57
25 Posted 20/11/2007 at 22:44:07
We have had 2 votes, the first asked us if we wanted to move, the second asked us if we wanted to go to Kirkby. On both occasions the answer was a resounding YES.
Get over it!
We are moving, put up or shut up!
Do you want to support a team in the city or do you want to support Everton Football Club, because like it or lump it they are the options?
Redshite pick option one
Blues option two
26 Posted 20/11/2007 at 23:03:54
As for the ECHO conducting a poll. If they can put a few pictures of tearful young Evertonians on the page then possibly, with some suitably weeping headline. Why do you think hardly anybody with a brain cell buys that rag nowadays? We used to have a laugh about the number of references to the Beatles that filled up the pages as an alternative to journalism.
Nobody is perfect, but Kenwright has moved an almost relegated and bankrupt club to one that is moving upwards, in the league, transfer market, training facilities and now possibly the ground. All this has happened without you, me or any of the supporters in general taking any risks with our own cash. I am not saying you should just accept everything but we could have a far worse Chairman.
27 Posted 20/11/2007 at 23:44:54
Why is the design so lacking in imagination? Why? Why?
The Stadium design for the Loop, the Kings Dock, even Johnson’s bowl with the man wearing the sombrero are all light years ahead of this Tesco designed rubbish.
Nil satis nisi optimum? It’s not even half way, never mind the best. And Kenwright had the audacity to say he had ’ driven them mad’ adding bits on durng the design phase? What, searchlights that face up in the sky and silly screens facing the outside along with countless cringeworthy People’s Club signs?
28 Posted 20/11/2007 at 23:58:35
Spot on Mate.
No voters give it a rest you lost end of story.
History is the past Look to the future.
Let it be were moving on,
And all that.
29 Posted 20/11/2007 at 23:59:43
30 Posted 21/11/2007 at 01:18:06
Some may say the Dolphins are the only NFL team in the area, they do not have a neighbouring NFL team. I totally agree. What they do have are other sports to compete with; NBA, NHL and MLB. Everton do not. We only (realistically) compete with one team not three others. If a team with such competition from other sports can move away from its origins and continue to be supported then why can?t we? If a stadium can continue to attract support from the Greater Miami area, including downtown Miami, why can?t we? Downtown where the Orange Bowl, Miami?s original home, is situated is way more than four miles away for those that ask. I lived there, it is a good ten miles away. Liken this to Liverpool and Merseyside.
Am I for or against the move you may ask? Living in the US since 1993 I cannot answer. I have too many memories of GP. Most are unforgettable. 5-0 v. MUFC; 1-1 v. MUFC, Wakenshaw scored (my first game); UCD what a nerve wracker; Fortuna Sittard ECWC - still remember Reidy?s "starsplash" by the corner flag; Ipswich Town, 2-1 down with minutes to play in the FA cup quarters and many, many more.
If the club do relocate our history will not be forgotten by those of us who were there to witness those tremendous occassions and those sorrowful ones as well, however long those memories are. The Dolphins moved home as we are likely to do. Get behind EVERTON. Who knows in twenty plus years the new stadium will be lauded as much as JRB/PPS and now the newly named "Dolphin?s Stadium"
31 Posted 21/11/2007 at 03:49:58
1. Would you like people to stop talking about the move to Kirkby? Yes/No/Don’t Care.
2. Do you think these saddo’s who continue to complain about Kirkby should get a life? Yes/No/Don’t Care
I think you’ll find the results will be a resounding yes on both counts.
32 Posted 21/11/2007 at 04:14:42
Was the point mute? Unfortunately, it is moot. Hence the continued debate.
33 Posted 21/11/2007 at 05:18:22
It?s like the tories asking for another general election when they lose.
34 Posted 21/11/2007 at 05:21:10
Forget Kirkby for a minute.
Is it right for Everton FC to be part of a shopping Mall alongside Boots, Tesco’s and a bloody great car park where on a Sat and Sun afternoon angry shoppers will find no where to park, be subjected to abuse from opposing fans and do you think the stores will be happy?
Its a bad move for all concerned. It would be a bad move irrespective of where the shopping mall is. Kirkby, Netherton, Fazakerly.. Walton.
Read the words not the rhetoric, Kirkby may be right or wrong, but a shopping precinct is not the place for an ambitious club.
And if we are not to be ambitious? Fine. At least you would get a parking space every Sat or Sunday at Tesco because there won’t be a full house watching the game.
35 Posted 21/11/2007 at 08:27:02
36 Posted 21/11/2007 at 08:05:33
37 Posted 21/11/2007 at 08:50:23
38 Posted 21/11/2007 at 10:07:47
Listen folks, I don?t want the club to move to Kirkby. I didn?t get a vote, so I couldn?t make a dent in the "yes" majority. However, the club gave it?s mandate and the (very small) majority voted for it. Sometimes there are downsides to living in a democracy. Perhaps if the idle bastards who didn?t bother to vote had actually got off their arse.......
We are going to Kirkby because that is the cheapest option and cheapest options tend to suit our board. Oh, and don?t forget, the majority voted for it!
39 Posted 21/11/2007 at 11:17:56
I’ve been to Miami and there is one major difference here that you have overlooked.
In Miami the stadium you talk of is miles ot and there is ample room all around for parking that caters for 70,000 crowds. The car park there is bloody enormous and linked to 4 and 5 lane Highways with ample junctions. Also, due to the climate, people arrive early, eat outside, after the game they disperse more slowly etc.
In Kirkby there will be only 1000 parking spaces and people will be having great difficulty parking. The motorways are not even close to US standard or size and apparently they are upgrading public transport links even though the train line is old and can’t take more than 4000 people an hour. Buses will help, but only to a degree and the number of people arriving on foot will have to drop from now as the stadium will not be central.
I can see Kirkby being the mother of all nightmares with us having to go into Liverpool to get transport out there and then come all the way back again afterwards as cars will not be feasible to park safely nearby. If the team is performing badly on the pitch, who will want the hassle? Some fans will come less often or hardly at all.
Finally, Miami and Liverpool. One has a population of 7 million, the other has a population of half a million. Not really a sensible comparison is it? 70,000 in Miami is 1% of the population, 50,000 in Liverpool is 10% of the population.
40 Posted 21/11/2007 at 13:29:05
If we want action, simply email Bill and Bill all these debates so they can see just how didvided we all are.
41 Posted 21/11/2007 at 13:20:54
42 Posted 21/11/2007 at 13:30:21
It is mentioned that we shouldn’t have a Tesco’s, Boots etc near our ground. Forgive me if I am wrong but aren’t there a number of Kwiky’s just a street lengths away from the Old Lady?
The Peoples Club thing was funny for a season when Moyes said it, but it is disgusting that the club have continued with it and it is a bit embarrasing that it is even emblazened on our ground.
In regards to the vote, should we keep on voting until we get a No outcome? What happens then, do the Yes voters cry out for another vote to try and get the yes vote again?
I have always said that it is was a digusting publicity stunt that the club had entered into, to put the vote to the fans. We, as clearly shown on web forums, are far too sentimental and inconsistent to have such a decision forced onto us.
We don’t have the business accumen and it is clear that we were not in possession of all the facts when the poll came around.
However the vote is over and I understand why the No voters are continually posting threads about it but it will not do any good. The the Board the "People" have spoken and the road to Kirkby is ever nearer and no amount of debating and name calling will affect that fact.
43 Posted 21/11/2007 at 14:09:14
The emirates is bound by 2 railway lines with bridge getting people onto its island at one end the actual stadium would comfortably fit within the loop site. The Millenium stadium is bound by tight city blocks on 3 sides, and a river close up to the other...... HOK have assessed the site and see no problems. In the city centre at present there are several schemes that have been generated via or with the aid of enabling developments and dwarfs anything proposed for Kirkby. The city planning office is now one of the biggest and busiest in the country as a result, and this proposal has been embraced by them. Presumably your naming rites and sale of goodison could relate to the Loop also, except there of course the naming rights would be much greater being a more high profile location..... not to mention the potential for additional stadia use in the city centre. Unfortunately, I believe Goodison Park is currently remortgaged to its full value, and I’m not sure the naming rights you’re proposing are realistic or speculative for the location. Also if the final cost is nearer the £80m figure we’re getting even further away from nothing! There has been no planning permission granted to Kirkby yet, Goodison exists, and there is enough room at the Parkend alone to build an enabler and a stand to get the stadium upto 50k seats in one go, with that enabling development reducing the net cost to the club. There are a multitude of variations that can be developed to meet the clubs needs via redevelopment, and the planning dept are open to requests, which is basically what has been said to the club at their meetings. The figures are leaking out now, they are coming from the club and their consultants, yet you ask me to take my blinkers off.
44 Posted 21/11/2007 at 14:34:30
45 Posted 21/11/2007 at 15:32:43
46 Posted 21/11/2007 at 16:04:37
The Board exist to make decsions - right or wrong. While the Board hold their position "in trust" Everton is not a co-operative.
The No voters are a significant MINORITY - not the majority of Everton fans. I wonder when that unpalatable fact will sink in.
To answer Tom’s question about websites voting yes before the ballot. The echo (I read it online) consistently recorded about 50/50 before the vote.
Toffeeweb, if I recall, with a very large voter base (around 3,000 responses I believe), narrowly voted yes, but with reservations over the design of the stadium.
47 Posted 21/11/2007 at 16:35:48
48 Posted 21/11/2007 at 16:37:02
So many fucking experts come out of the woodwork on these threads, spouting bollox and making sweeping generalisations and assumptions.
The main issue I have with yet another poll was touched on in an earlier response above. How many polls do we have before it is decided that the decision is that "the people". I understand the view that we are all stakeholders and I am sure that many fans out there have shares, but this is a business not a fucking democracy! We elect a government in this country to make decisions, we don’t have a referendum every time there is a major decision to make (though some may prefer this). The reason for this is that not everybody has the understanding, knowledge or information to make such decisions.
"Liverpool is the City of Culture for 2008; how should Everton FC be marketed in light of this and any Tesco alliance?" What? Is this a fucking exam question? 3000 words is it? Yes/No questions are one thing but opebn ended questions like that, which require information and projections (which can always be debated), are a waste of time. Maybe you know what your answer would be Christine, but many wouldn’t.
Let’s have another vote. When that doesn’t go the way everyone wants then we’ll have another.. and another... and another.
Many people who post in response to articles on the stadium debate are convinced that BK and KW are incapable of making these important decisions, yet they will trust any fan to do it (as long as they vote the way they want).
However, at least Christine’s trying to suggest ways of voicing concerns that many Evertonians have that this move is looking increasingly cut price and rushed through. We won’t accept cheap rubbish, unfortunately, it’s all we can afford.
The Tesco jokes are funny and all that, but it’s easy to come on here and make sarcastic remarks about price checks and the like. If you don’t like it then at least try and do something constructive about it rather than just insulting people who disagree.
49 Posted 21/11/2007 at 19:09:11
If as you claim you voted for what you think was right, fine, you’ve had your say, the rest of us have our sights a little higher
50 Posted 21/11/2007 at 22:08:55
What makes your views or the views of the No voters so pertinent then, why should we all just listen to them and shun the Yes voters?
51 Posted 21/11/2007 at 22:14:55
Slaven Bilic in, David Moyes out....
52 Posted 21/11/2007 at 23:17:39
The team have a much balls as the organisation. I was delighted they lost and am just sorry that Scotland (who did not consider they had a divine right to qualify) did not.
May we wish another boring yes man a long retirement.
53 Posted 22/11/2007 at 00:04:09
54 Posted 22/11/2007 at 01:54:00
Supported by the Majority of People. I for one would acknowledge democracy if we had it. We had a limited proposal on the table which I understand given all the circumstances the board believed was the best road to go along to assess the opportunity. EFC is a Ltd company but we are its customers. A company that doesn’t listen to its customers has a short life and so do the board. If a yes vote comes in that will be the end of it, no more debate no more polls, just make it happen. Get on with it.
But as it stands, we have a huge club in Everton FC. I think ALL of us would agree that if possible we keep it in Liverpool, but just as important is the quality of the stadium, its location and its presence. Its my personal view that at least one of those two criteria for acceptance should be acheived. The board do have a responsibility for honouring a proud clubs history, but more than that, they have a duty to make the club profitable and pass on the legacy to future generations.
If the board only wants to hear from a selective set of people, perhaps we should call it a Private Peoples Club..
We just need to clear the desks of the issues and go forward with a little transparency.
55 Posted 22/11/2007 at 06:31:03
Yes that is the gist of it, no voters are striving for something better, you have shamefully excepted second best, so what exactly is your point ? what do you want to change ? could it be your afraid that a better option is found exposing the yes vote as an vote taken by people who coudnt be arsed to fight for something better.
Trust me when Kirkby is blown out of the water - as it will be - and you are watching EFC in Liverpool, you’ll never find anyone willing to admit they were weak willed enough to have voted for it
until then get used to it, we fight on
56 Posted 22/11/2007 at 09:34:44
If getting out of the new stadium at Kirkby is anything like getting out of Wembley then just forget it.
Both are in reasonably remote locations, both served by one station, both have inadequate parking facilities...................what a nightmare 40,000 fans at least trying to get to the tube, the police acting like gestapo in their attempt to keep order.............no-one knew where else to go, buses we?re packed no taxis cos they don?t like football fans..........took me two hours plus to get back to victoria, it?s about the same journey as Kirkby is from Liverpool.
My response............never again, never, never.........not because we lost, but it? just takes the joy out of the occasion.............Wembley not bad, facilities ok..............but the journey.......forget Kikby just on this issue alone, never mind the stadiun, nightmare total total nightmare.
57 Posted 22/11/2007 at 09:44:50
58 Posted 22/11/2007 at 10:16:37
Sort of kills the myth: "What does it matter, it’s only a few miles?" doesn’t it? Convenience and efficient people movement are essential features, yet they have often been discarded with that throw away statement by so many blues on these forums for the past few months. The basic transport outline given in another fan article illustrates precisely what you experienced last night!!
59 Posted 22/11/2007 at 12:28:58
What makes the views of one set of fans so much more right than the other sets of fans.
It’s not rocket science mate.
Whilse we are at it, what are tomorrow nights numbers, as you seem to be able to predict the future.
60 Posted 22/11/2007 at 16:52:22
Supported by the Majority of People. I for one would acknowledge democracy if we had it. We had a limited proposal on the table which I understand given all the circumstances the board believed was the best road to go along to assess the opportunity. EFC is a Ltd company but we are its customers."
We did have democracy and the vote was YES to move to Kirkby - the NO vote even came in 3rd. You might not like the result but that’s democracy. iAccept it & move on PLEASE. Why are we still having this debate.
61 Posted 22/11/2007 at 18:35:19
Smell the coffee lad, look around you as your fellow yes men begin to disappear, seeing the true images, and hearing how undeliverable the parking claims will be were bad enough, Listening to the shite KW now spouting must be painfully embarressing to you, you sold out by giving this clown a mandate - like I said you’ve had your say - its up to us to overturn it
When I said we wont be going to Kirkby I was hardly predicting the future, I was stating what even you must realise is the blindingly obvious
62 Posted 22/11/2007 at 20:23:19
In my experience, there?s none so bloody-minded as a Yes man who?s had the mirror of truth held up to their face. They?ll dig in now, regardless of how much this Kirkby retail park looks like they?ve been sold a pup.
63 Posted 22/11/2007 at 20:20:02
Bestway are still putting money into the Loop proposal, does this not suggest that there is at least some mileage in investigating it. Bestway tell us it is vialble to build a 60,000 seater stadium on that site, not an ikea stadium either but a proper iconic stadium, and the board dismiss it without even listening.
At the moment, if we are honest, nobody knows how much Kirkby will cost, nobody knows how much the Loop will cost and nobody knows how much the redevelopment of Goodison will cost.
What always gets me about this is the hotel. If Kirkby gets the go ahead how much much money will the ground generate on non match days, unless they open the bars and cafes up to the shoppers my guess is not much. If the Loop was built we would get not only a football stadium but a hotel as well. Honeymoon overlooking the pitch, business trip watching the boys train, conference facilities high above the stands, yes please. That would give the club a decent income on top of whatever else is generated by the ground.
We voted to talk about kirkby, well i have listened to the proposal, at times I thought it looked good, but most of the time I cringed. When I saw the pictures of the stadium with Tesco in the foreground I coulodn’t believe it. I remember being told on here once that the board had promised that the ground would not be part of the shopping centre, it would be set back and separate - guess that was a lie. Now I don’t expect a vote, but I do expect the board to do what is best for Everton Football Club and all of its stakeholders.
For those of you who don’t know what a stakeholder is, it is anyone who is affected by the actions of a company. But I digress, the board needs to listen to the loop proposal and look at the figures and then tell us why the Kirkby project is financially better for the club in the long term. No fantasies about the Kirkby having the potential to go 75,000 even though Knowsley council say no, I want true facts, true costs, proper P&L forecasts etc. etc. Prove once and for all that they are doing this for the club and not for themselves.
All those in favour say Aye.
64 Posted 23/11/2007 at 01:20:01
I guess you put into clear words what I tried too. Thank you for that. I agree ... We agreed to talk thats not a mandate for poor decisions.
For all those who moan and whinge about the fact that so many won’t accept Kirkby as the best or only solution available to us, let me ask teh question, Finally. What happens if Kirkby is thrown out as an option for what ever reason and there are many to chose from other than emotion, Where then for Everton Football club? Because as it stands we are stuffed according to the board. Does that mean we will never move,? or die? No it doesn;t. The board has options but it is choosing to ignore them over other. Will the Loop suddenly be the new flavour of the week? Will they then say that its the best option? even better than Kirkby?
Of course they will. Its not just about a board doing the right thing, its about being seen to do it the right way.
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