Some may say the Dolphins are the only NFL team in the area, they do not have a neighbouring NFL team. I totally agree. What they do have are other sports to compete with; NBA, NHL and MLB. Everton do not. We only (realistically) compete with one team not three others. If a team with such competition from other sports can move away from its origins and continue to be supported then why can?t we? If a stadium can continue to attract support from the Greater Miami area, including downtown Miami, why can?t we? Downtown where the Orange Bowl, Miami?s original home, is situated is way more than four miles away for those that ask. I lived there, it is a good ten miles away. Liken this to Liverpool and Merseyside.
Am I for or against the move you may ask? Living in the US since 1993 I cannot answer. I have too many memories of GP. Most are unforgettable. 5-0 v. MUFC; 1-1 v. MUFC, Wakenshaw scored (my first game); UCD what a nerve wracker; Fortuna Sittard ECWC - still remember Reidy?s "starsplash" by the corner flag; Ipswich Town, 2-1 down with minutes to play in the FA cup quarters and many, many more.
If the club do relocate our history will not be forgotten by those of us who were there to witness those tremendous occassions and those sorrowful ones as well, however long those memories are. The Dolphins moved home as we are likely to do. Get behind EVERTON. Who knows in twenty plus years the new stadium will be lauded as much as JRB/PPS and now the newly named "Dolphin?s Stadium"
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1 Posted 21/11/2007 at 06:42:51
Secondly, most NFL franchises make a LOT of money, attract massive sponsorship and can command far more money for naming rights, etc, than can Everton. And that?s where one of the most contentious issues arises, namely the kind of stadium that is on offer in Kirkby. It feels like a double body-blow to be leaving the City, moving 6 miles further away from the biggest urban regeneration project currently underway in Europe, for a "repli-kit" stadium in a Tesco car park.
Thirdly, with Americans so accustomed to driving everywhere, the distance of a stadium from the city isn?t really that big an issue ? indeed, it?s a boon for the tailgating culture. (I realise that that doesn?t fit with the paradox that there is now a shift towards inner-city stadia now across the Pond, though!)
2 Posted 21/11/2007 at 07:41:57
For example I went to a Fresno State Bulldogs game back in 1990, basically a bunch of schoolboy amateurs that played in front of a sell out crowd of 60,000 people.?
Also isn’t the point of having a stadium out of town in the US is to accomodate all the cars and the tailgate parties in the carpark?
Can’t see Tesco allowing that in Kirkby.
3 Posted 21/11/2007 at 07:44:55
4 Posted 21/11/2007 at 07:56:12
Also, the seasons for each sport tend to be a lot shorter so there is only a small overlap - football is an autumn sport, hockey is for the winter and baseball in the summer (no idea about basketball).
5 Posted 21/11/2007 at 08:18:18
6 Posted 21/11/2007 at 08:12:41
7 Posted 21/11/2007 at 08:22:56
8 Posted 21/11/2007 at 08:52:26
Over 80,000 fans every week.
9 Posted 21/11/2007 at 09:12:48
NJ population..... 8 million+, Kirkby..... 40,000, just a bit bigger than accrington. Haven’t one of these or both been trying to relocate to Manhatten? What’s the combined population of NY/NJ/Maryland? Probably more than the entire North of England. Lee check out stadium World or stadium guide, and see how many new stadia have been built in downtown areas in the US. I think the proposed new Jets stadium is in there somewhere. If you can shoe horn one into Manhatten you can do it anywhere.
10 Posted 21/11/2007 at 09:55:45
11 Posted 21/11/2007 at 10:01:51
High School American Football games attract a full house of about 5000 on Friday night.
University teams attract a full house of about 60,000 on a Saturday afternoon.
NFL teams attract a full house of 70,000 on a Sunday afternoon.
It is a family day out, BBQ in the carpark, they travel hundreds of miles to see their old college team.
Distance is no object in a country 3000 miles wide.
British people have a totally different mentality with sport to an American.
12 Posted 21/11/2007 at 10:30:37
All NFL teams are franchises with no distinguished local area to base from. The LA raiders moved 60 miles to be the Oakland Raiders. The Houston Oilers moved out of Houston to a different part of Texas altogether.
They also have a far greater population.
The 49ers are planning to move 30 miles out of San Francisco (much to the disgust of fans).
We cant compare Everton moving out of Liverpool (where the heart of the club is) to an American Franchise which moves every decade to pillage whatever potential market area it can see.
13 Posted 21/11/2007 at 11:49:15
14 Posted 21/11/2007 at 11:56:08
Comparing american sporting habits and that of europe is like comparing chalk and cheese.
A lot of NFL teams have recently moved back to their core fanbase and inner city stadium locations...
The main pain points that out of town stadiums gave to fans were things like traffic, distance, time spent in queues etc, etc. The novelty or ’experiment’ of out-of-town stadiums on green-field sites pretty much failed...
Some examples in soccer... Juventus. Miles away from Turin. Stadium was always empty. They are now reducing the capacity.... Bolton. Traffic problems, never full. Reading... fans have to leave 10 mins before the game or else they are stuck in traffic for hours...
IT DOESN’T WORK!!! WAKE UP BIILY BOY!!!!
15 Posted 21/11/2007 at 12:05:34
American football teams move to other states and still draw in the crowds.Its a franchise buisness and is a totally different set up to the way people follow football clubs in Britain.I cant put up with any more of you dumb yes voters trying to justify your pathetic reasons for voting
yes.Go to Kirkby with BK AND KW and watch the club die but please stop trying to convince the more sane Evertonians that its the right thing to do because its a load of bollocks.
16 Posted 21/11/2007 at 12:20:33
I’m a Giant’s fan. The new stadium, which will be shared with the Jets, is right next to the existing one. It’s on a big space of open land outside the city. Nowhere near Manhatten.
I’m well aware of the difference in population between Kirkby and New Jersey. I was just pointing out that it’s not uncommon for teams to play on the periphery, or just outside of their recognised home ’city’. No identity has been lost. Nobody would assume or suggest that the Giants or the Jets are not ’New York’ teams. And I think you’ll find the vast majority of game-going Giants fans are from the City.
17 Posted 21/11/2007 at 12:42:27
18 Posted 21/11/2007 at 13:32:01
Apolgies, I read of a new stadium for one or the other a while ago and it was to be located in Manhatten, there were even some images...
American footy is not my thing but I’ve visited a few stadia, and a few baseball parks also. I don’t know if this is most current or not:
There are peripheral sites with large urban sprawls and or neighbouring connurbations with mutually supportive transport networks. But Kirkby is quite literally the end of the line. St Helens is probably the nearest town and this can rarely fill 15,000 Knowsley Rd for one of the best Rugby league teams in the world. There simply isnt the kind of numbers nor interest to be of any real benefit to Everton...... but to be honest why are we trying to reinvent our fanbase? There are 1.5 million people in Merseyside we should be striving to win them, and the nearer to their geographical centre the better..... that’s why the rest of the amenities are there too.
19 Posted 21/11/2007 at 15:34:18
1. The LA Raiders were originally the Oakland Raiders. They moved to LA when owner Al Davis couldn?t get a better deal from the city, then moved back again when LA wouldn?t build a new stadium.
2. The Houston Oilers didn?t move to another part of Texas, they moved to another state -- Tennessee, where they?re now the Titans.
20 Posted 21/11/2007 at 17:35:44
Whilst this is a poor comparison, I believe that the main point is that fans should be able to continue to support their team regardless of a move of a few miles. As long as the transport links are good people will travel. As long as the team does well on the pitch, new support will continue to flow from surrounding areas and across the UK (think about slagging off RS for having support from far and wide). I understand the view that Everton are a Liverpool club, but IMHO the distance they would be moving to Kirkby is negligible, as you could probably move further and still be within the city boundaries. I am not for one moment suggesting that moving from the city should be taken lightly, but I think some make it a much bigger issue than they can justify with evidence. There are lots of theories about what might happen to EFC if they relocate to Kirkby, but many are based on worst case scenarios and assumptions. Inevitably there is a risk, but you can’t avoid them in business so while Kirkby may not be the right decision, it should not be dismissed too easily.
21 Posted 21/11/2007 at 16:06:45
22 Posted 21/11/2007 at 20:54:18
23 Posted 22/11/2007 at 01:24:35
Lyndon. Your articulate response set the overall tone for replies. A very measured and accurate response and one I cannot and will not argue with except for one point. Your last sentence of paragraph one reads, "Furthermore, local fans often support two or more of their city?s teams so the only real competition is for people?s money." I have reworded this as, " Local fans often support one of their city’s teams so the only real competition is for people’s money." Does/Could this reflect the current EPL mindset? That we (EFC) are competing with LFC as a business rather than a "club"? I think so.
Eric. I agree. It will not happen
Tom Hughes (post #1).You make good points. Maybe they have learnt and we are learning? Quote, " Are you saying we could move anywhere and fill it?" No I am not. What I am saying is that it might not be as bleak as it looks - for the present. Who knows what will happen in the future...?
Tommy Jones. I support the "Club" irrespective of the outcome. Should we move, wherever, I will support the CLUB. The club is Everton. As I wrote I cannot give an honest answer to the ground move. My last visit to GP was Coventry 1994. 2-0 up to a 2-2 draw sat in a cramped seat in the Lower Bullens. That is my last memory of GP
Tom Tibb and Paul Ramsey. I agree. If the move happens then maybe that is the result. I am not attempting to compare US franchises to our Club
Damian. Good post.
Tony Marsh. Thanks for your response. I was not trying to compare the NFL to the EPL. I was attempting to articulate that, forgive the comparison to the way American sports are controlled, if a move away from GP is necessary then maybe the new stadium, wherever it is, will become the new GP.
Neil McKiinney. You have hit the nail on the head. Thank you!
As I wrote in my original post I have many fond memories of GP. Now living in the US all I want is for the Blues to be a success. If this is at GP or somewhere else I will still support EFC. I am neither for or against a proposed move. I want what is best for the CLUB. Be that at GP or elsewhere..
24 Posted 22/11/2007 at 22:54:10
25 Posted 23/11/2007 at 00:33:49
26 Posted 23/11/2007 at 00:54:11
But then doesn’t it make the opinion wrong if the information it was based on is wrong?
27 Posted 23/11/2007 at 09:06:05
If we?re going to be pedantic, it?s 5.8 miles from Goodison to Kirkby according to the AA
If people can?t be arsed with the extra 5/6 miles to sit in a stadium that doesnt have wooden seats and obstructed views, Id ask questions about their ?support?
28 Posted 23/11/2007 at 17:50:17
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