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Can We Have Some Perspective, Please?

By David Jones :  20/12/2007 :  Comments (45) :
Let me start off by saying I am as happy as the next man with our current form, absolutely delighted. But I honestly don't think I can take much more of reading some of the frankly ridiculous posts that are poppoing up on this site and others though. To say they lack perspective and realism is an understatement.

If I have to read one more 'apology' to David Moyes or 'the apologists' or one more starry eyed post about how we are now just a skip away from being Arsenal I really don't think I will be able to keep my tea down!! Can you people just get a grip and come back to earth for a moment!?

Just take a moment to actually look at this super duper ultra amazing run we are on and analyse the quality of the opposition and the story of the games. Don't bother in fact, I will do it for you....

Larissa (H) - In short, a nomark team.
Derby (A) - League whipping boys. Should fully expect to win games like these, West Ham whipped them.
Luton (A) - Extra time to beat another bunch of nomarks.
Birmingham (H) - Two goals in injury time papering over a far from awe inspiring performance.
Nurnberg (A) - A good result in europe but lets be honest, they are a very poor side.
Chelsea (A) - Great result but in short we were lucky. Chelsea had all the play and chances and we nicked something.
Sunderland (H) - Great performance but lets be honest, the Mackems are hardly a benchmark for the division.
Portsmouth (A) - Toothless display against a team with an abysmal home record of recent.
Zenit (H) - Job done, hardly a rolls royce display though.
Fulham (H) - Awful team, fully expected result. If sanchez remains I envisage them going down.
West Ham (A,A) - Great results and decent performances against a decent team. No more though, nothing to get OTT about.

Now, I realise that you can put an ultra positive spin on all of that, as many are choosing to do, but I think if we are all honest with ourselves you can see there is very little in the way of tough opposition in that entire list. I say again I am delighted at how things are going and I really hope we can keep it up, people really need to calm down though.

If things go off the rails again and the criticisms of David Moyes re-appear I have to say that i think, this time, his staunch supporters will be well within their rights to call people 'fickle'.

By all means, come the season end, if we have kept it up right to the death then let's have another look at things and maybe then say 'yes...he has finally got it right'.

Right now though we have achieved nothing. A run of defeats, which is quite possible with tough games ahead, could see us out of the League Cup and back in mid-table. That may sound pessimistic and negative but it isn't, it is a potential reality.

Games like Villa (H), whom we lost to away let's not forget, City (Home and Away), Blackburn (A) etc will give us a much clearer indication of how much progress is being made.

I go to the games, I am a season ticket holder, I know what I see. We are not Arsenal, we are a million miles from being Arsenal. What we are is a decent side with a very good defence and goalkeeper which is hard to beat. That is a wonderful basis for any successful team.

Offensively though we are still a long way from the required level. We still lift the ball off the ground way too much and we still look very one dimensional at times. There are many teams in this division like this of course, the way people are going on though you would think we are streets ahead of the likes of West Ham, Villa, Blackburn, Portsmouth, Newcastle etc. In reality though we are not, it's nip and tuck.

The Opta statistics for the league, whilst favourable to us in some aspects, have us listed 16th in the division in terms of sides who make the most successful passes. That isn't a good sign. The football has improved for sure, it's not THAT good though. I think some peoples massive overreactions to what I would consider a bit of decent play shows just how badly we have been starved of any kind of decent footyball under Moyes. Unfortunately, at times, I can't help but think some of you fall into the category of people Jorge Valdano was addressing when he came out with his famous 'shit on a stick' quote.

Continue to enjoy the team doing well by all means but please fellow blues, get a grip on reality. The way many people are going on I fear tears before bedtime....

Reader Comments

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Robert Moore
1   Posted 20/12/2007 at 20:11:59

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i see your point and agree, but its nice to dream, but we are makeing good progress - onwards and upwards
COYB
Santosh Benjamin
2   Posted 20/12/2007 at 20:14:08

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What a load of shite! I dont know what you get by writing articles like that...i agree that everybody has their view but the way the article was written.. the hatred for Moyes and the lads is very obvious for all to see.
I am not comparing us to Arsenal..i am not saying that we are now the best thing since sliced bread...but i am saying that i am thrilled with the way we are playing as a team and the confidence we have....we may lose over the festive period...we may not win the UEFA or League cup...but i still think that such lack of respect and support for what we have already got going thus far is terrible.
Lets show some positive attitude..come on..what is the world coming to...honestly!...COYB
Colin McPhail
3   Posted 20/12/2007 at 20:28:33

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And we?re only winning 2-1 at half time in Alkmaar - ah well,I?m sure that they are also no - marks , we have at least 5 first team choices... You must be so bloody disapointed!!!

I Understand, we have had so many false dawn?s since the 80?s that it is easy to be guarded whenever we put a run together, But I disagree with the negative tone of this mail strongly...

Kindly re-evaluate if we get a good couple of results against Man u and Arsenal..
Paul Hardcastle
4   Posted 20/12/2007 at 20:35:31

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Ah wind yer neck in, Santosh. David Jones is bang on. We have won nothing and really the opposition has not really been much to write home about. And when we have a had a chance to beat one of real peers... we couldn’t do it, scraping a draw with albeit a wonderful equalizer from Cahill.

Perspective is often lacking from Everton fans, be it those who prematurely call for Moyes to go or thoise wjho want to crown him as teh Moyesiah who has still won nothing. To call that perspective "hatred for Moyes and the lads" as you have is childisshly pathetic and divisive at best. Grow up lad!
Alex Baker
5   Posted 20/12/2007 at 20:53:43

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If so many games unbeaten fails to make you more optimistic for the future, what will? You can only beat what’s put in front of you after all.
John
6   Posted 20/12/2007 at 21:04:36

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Dave, have you tried prozac ?

If you havent felt an ounce of joy from our recent winning streak, then maybe you should post somewhere else..

We are celebrating an upsurge in Evertons fortunes, the fans are singing, we have new heroes and we believe we are capable of coming back and winning games..

I havent felt this good since the 80s and I can only see it getting better..

Join the party mate.. lets enjoy it all together..
Stig Meacham
7   Posted 20/12/2007 at 20:30:34

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My god, you must be a regular riot at parties, David.

I guess we sense your barely disguised anger (at what, exactly, is probably best left between you and your therapist) here.

First, what I will grant you is that there has certainly been some unbridled optimism in evidence on the site these past few weeks. And you have made some decent, salient points with regard to the way the team has been playing throughout this run, and not the least of which being that the quality of the opposition has been poor. Again you’re spot on that we are absolutely not Arsenal, jnr.

I feel Lyndon provided a far more objective mailbag post which touched upon everything important of what you’ve neatly detailed here, though without the condescending and vitriol-laced tone. Did you read what he posted? Did it not go far enough in its negativity for you, hence this?

What was your point here, David? You write you’re a season ticket holder. Good on you mate. I’m serious -- cheers for the support. But being such, I don’t even need to mention here to you about the agonies of the last decade-and-a-half (longer), do I?

On the basis of this, erm, screed it’s implied that you somehow have a problem with the fact that a number of our mates are getting a bit carried away with the best form from the club that we’ve seen in yonks. You want to what, bring us down to earth? Diminish our falsely raised expectations? Well thank you, but perhaps that’s not necessarily what’s called for right now? And perhaps it’s not your place, anyways?

I have to think that most of the folks on this website aren’t so deluded that they don’t know a run of defeats is right around the corner, David. As I listen online, I sense one coming over there in Holland.

What the f@ck is so wrong with a group of football supporters getting overly-excited about a club that has offered little in the way of such for basically a generation? What’s your problem with that?

You mention you have a problem with a lack of perspective and realism shown by our fellow posters here. Who cares?! This is FOOTBALL, man, get a hold of yourself. Perspective and realism is appropriate for the horrid Iraq War, or Darfur and Sudan. It’s not worth alienating a group of people who share your passion for a sport and a specific club. Your dispassionate dissection of some people’s passion is a little creepy.

And about passion. I’d much rather have a Goodison Park filled with happily screaming believers than a bunch of David Joneses sitting around muttering ’yeah, but...’ after every goal. Bet the players would, too.

I’m having a superb time with our last few months, and I find you ’realists’ more than a bit of a drag. Believe me, I’m not detached from reality, David. I’m just having fun.

No offence meant by this, btw, David. take it easy.
James Elworthy
8   Posted 20/12/2007 at 21:36:47

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I bet you told your kids there is no such thing as father christmas too.
3-2 with a makeshift side well done boys
James Elworthy
9   Posted 20/12/2007 at 21:36:47

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I bet you told your kids there is no such thing as father christmas too.
3-2 with a makeshift side well done boys
Viv
10   Posted 20/12/2007 at 21:36:19

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Clearly we are going to win the carling cup, eufa cup and obviously we are going to push arsenal right to the end, but dont expect too much this year from the league, 2nd is realistic, and a spot in the facup final.
OK, maybe a bit much, but we just beat Alkmar (who nver lost at home before in 33 games) and this without 5 key players. AND solid performances from younger players. AND first team debuts from youngsters. Come on guys, no we are not Arsenal, but if Arsenal had had the run of results we are having, people would be talking about them breaking their 49 game run. I for one and fully allowing myself to get carried away and enjoy being an evertonian!
Mike Hughes
11   Posted 20/12/2007 at 21:48:09

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If you are a season ticket holder like me then why can’t you see that, if any area needs strengthening or at least stronger coaching, it’s the defence. The midfield and strikers are doing great. Get some perspective? Sales of toilet paper must be at an all time high in the old trafford area!!!
Clyde McPhatter
12   Posted 20/12/2007 at 21:46:44

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Fatalists...that’s what we have become. Tragedy is right around the corner. We are doing so well that it can’t continue, and we have played teams who were not any good for 13 straight games now. We were lucky for 13 straight games. Chelsea..yeah, we were lucky. West Ham twice in 4 days...absolutely lucky. Fulham...lucky. Europe total luck....

OMG, can you please turn in your season ticket and go watch and support someone else who will give you pleasure? I for one wil give you your money back, and point you in the nearest direction of a "better" club to support. Do you think Man U relishes playing us this Sunday? Do you think Chelsea is happy they drew us instead of Spurs in the semi?



By the way Bod Dylan was right about you, Mr. Jones.
Alex Baker
13   Posted 20/12/2007 at 21:56:16

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Flood warnings in Manchester - all ManUre fans pissing themselves at the thought of playing the mighty Blues!!!
Art Greeth
14   Posted 20/12/2007 at 21:42:17

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Well said, Stig. A good retort to Davie Jones who really shouldn’t be let out of his locker. Give me vinegar over you pissing on me chips any day...

You want some perspective, Davie boy,...? Here’s some more for you:

EFC is now unbeaten in cup ties this season, having scored 19 goals and conceded seven in nine matches eight victories, one draw,

We are now unbeaten in our last 13 matches - 11 wins, two draws, a goal difference of 30-7.

Including Peterborough last season we have won our last seven away matches in cup competitions ? a club record.

Tonight’s victory is a new club record - a sixth away cup win in a single season.

The victory also means that for the first time in their history, Everton have recorded 10 away wins before Christmas from the start of a campaign.

Tonight’s win also equals the club record set in 1984/5 of five consecutive wins in European games.

Even with an understrength team on the pitch, the 3-2 victory over Alkmaar is their first ever defeat in a home European team. Until tonight, they held the record for ALL European clubs of 32 European ties without defeat.

Perspective??? Realism???

My arse!!!!!!
Clyde McPhatter
15   Posted 20/12/2007 at 22:00:10

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From the Guardian tonight:AZ Alkmaar suffered a first European home defeat in their history and were eliminated from the UEFA Cup on Thursday after a 3-2 loss to Everton.
The Dutch side had gone 32 games unbeaten at home in Europe since entering European competition in 1977 but James Vaughan hit a 79th-minute winner as the Premier League side ended the group stage with maximum points from their four games.


Total Luck....they hadn’t lost at home in 30 years! Who would have thought we would have taken all 4 of our European games?

Santosh Benjamin
16   Posted 20/12/2007 at 21:57:45

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Paul..i dont think i need to say much to you..the comments in here reflect what many of us feel..we may not have won anything yet..and we do have areas to work on..but what is wrong with a little optimism after beating AZ away where they are undefeated in ages...and we had a 2nd string side playing...
Lets not behave like other club supporters..we are Evertonians..we stick together and get behind our team..no matter what,,and especially when they are ona run like this..lets cheer them on..well done Moyes and the lads...im already proud of what you’ve done.
We may lose to ManUre or the Arse this month but believe me..neither of them is terribly happy to be playing us now..likewise Chelsea in the Carling Cup...onwards and upwards..COYB
Micky Norman
17   Posted 20/12/2007 at 21:55:42

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David,another win and against a teamwho needed to win in a stadium where they’ve never lost a Euro game. You must be gutted. We might lose our next 3 but we’ve not had a bad result since Prattenburg. We’re not suddenly playing in a lower division are we? For suck’s fake, nobody’s being that stupid here. Enjoy it.
Stefan Tosev,Vienna
18   Posted 20/12/2007 at 21:45:27

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To Paul Hardcastle and David Jones

the article is not a perspective its piece of shit and to play down the achievement of our team and impose your view is what I call "childisshly pathetic and divisive at best"



Nurnberg are German side and as long as I can remember every time Germany meet England in the last or so 40 years on big stage the outcome is only one, yet for you they are very poor side.

Against Chelsea we were lucky, you make your own luck, if we had the possession and chances they had and then lost to such a beatiful goal all the pundits wold have been singing praises about the quality of Chelsea finishing, and in your account the result would have been "poor loss, against a side here for the taking"

Sunderland may not be benchmark for the division but they played against MU and Arsenal away and the results were 1-0 and 3-2 respectively hardly push ups.

Portsmouth are on par with us and Liverpool and one of the toughest sides outside the big four but for you they are just with "abusmal record"

Zenit - Russian champions and CL outfit for the next season, Fulham - 3 points as ever.

West Ham a bit of credit here - all in all biased and negative article, never a comment about the derby and at least praising the team team for doing something right, only knocking down them with "some perspective".

If you can enjoy this run now, or can take at least some positives then no one can help you and make sure that the first time we lose or drop points against a "team there for the taking" you come here and say I told you so
Stefan Tosev
19   Posted 20/12/2007 at 22:20:06

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*The last paragraph should be cant instead of can
Peter Parvins
20   Posted 20/12/2007 at 22:17:58

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After the shite we’ve watched down the years and the misery we’ve endured, a few words to David Jones - fuck off with your negative comments. We all have the right to our opinions but with the run we are on and the entertaining football we are watching - we have every right to be optimistic. Long may it continue - Wembley anyone ?
David Jones
21   Posted 20/12/2007 at 22:22:22

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Oh dear, more of the same!! All you people are doing is repeating exactly the stuff I have been reading all along!! We beat AZ tonight, i’m delighted. So what though? I watched the game, they are rubbish. They have gone out of the group because they weren’t good enough and they are struggling in their domestic league this year for a good reason. Another good result that will feed the lunatics dream of an unprecedented quadruple but in reality that is all it is, a good result for our second string on the night against another very mediocre opposition. Like I said, I am delighted about the run, I am just keeping my feet on the ground. I consider Everton a big club, still. It isn’t really a big club mentality getting in a lather the way loads of you are at what we have done so far. Maybe it’s time more of you actually started to think big and set your sights a bit higher instead of acting like Portsmouth or Bolton fans. Big clubs with big ambitions keep their eyes on the prize. Thankfully I think Moyes and the players are getting far less carried away than the fans and that is definitely a good thing. Each to their own though of course....we’re gonna win the league....
Shaun Sparke
22   Posted 20/12/2007 at 22:15:30

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David Jones, well what can I say? I was feeling pretty pleased with life after tonights win, full of the festive spirit and all that. Then I logged on here to share the joy with my fellow blues. BUT after reading your post ,it got me thinking. What if father christmas falls off his sleigh this year and breaks his neck,what if my wife runs off with my best friend, what if I develop a great big boil on the front of my nose, what if my dog gets ran over by a runaway sleigh, what if China gets totally pissed off with the rest of the world and decides to send a few intercontinental ballisitic missles in our general direction....?
My point being, lets just enjoy the hear and now, things are going well so do us a favour mate, dont spoil it for the rest of us who dare to dream.
Steve Taylor
23   Posted 20/12/2007 at 22:34:55

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Paul Hardcastle & David Jones; you miserable pair of twats!

If you can’t enjoy the FACT that we’re now 13 unbeaten & have to look for the negative (if there is one) - you really ought to FUCK OFF across the park.
Chris Jones (Wakefeld)
24   Posted 20/12/2007 at 22:24:58

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Larissa, "No mark team"? Tell that to Mark Hughes and his boys!

To those who say we’ve not beaten anyone worth a damn, let me point out many in football would see it differently. Look at all the banana skins avoided! There’s plenty a team/manager come to grief against ’lowly’ opposition. You only have to look at England’s sorry record to see the truth in that statement!

I do think it’s healthy to keep one’s feet on the ground. We have a hard game this weekend (every game is hard!) and I am eager to see the Blues measured against a team widely regarded as half-decent. But on the other hand, let’s celebrate fine performances too. 4 wins from 4 in a group many here said we’d never progress as far as, after the first game against Metalist.


We beat the Russian champions and killed the longest unbeaten home run anywhere in Europe.

Long may the moaning minnies be embarrassed by their early season ravings. COYBB!
Stefan Tosev
25   Posted 20/12/2007 at 22:35:55

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"another very mediocre opposition"

you are either idiot, hopeless or just want to wind up people. AZ have never lost at to ANYONE in Europe,beat 4-2 Newcastle last year and lost the Dutch title in the last round I dont know what you consider good sides and how big you think but its 2007 and Everton are making good steps in the right direction and making us proud

No one has ever mentioned quadropole here except you and in conclusion you are making T. Marsh sounding like Daffy Dodd with your views
Art Greeth
26   Posted 20/12/2007 at 22:36:29

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More self-indulgence from you Davie...? YOU are the one claiming that others are claiming we’re gonna win the league... Carling Cup... UEFA Cup... whatever.

I have seen no such extravagant claims you attribute to your fellow blues. Exuberance - yes. And when your team is on a run such as ours, why bottle it? Let it out!!!

Let’s have some REAL perspective and realism from you. Care to comment on my earlier post listing no fewer than FOUR new club records broken tonight and another equalled...? Really, in 129 years of our club’s history, never has the fixture list been so ’lucky’ for us to line up so many ’weak’ teams together, eh...?
Karl Masters
27   Posted 20/12/2007 at 22:47:59

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Of all the stas that are flying about, the most telling is 10 away wins before Christmas.

When was the last season we ever managed that, never mind under half of one?

We’ve always been a tough nut at Goodison, but now we’re going away, scoring goals and winning. That bodes very well for the rest of this season.

David, you are right that it’s early days, but you have to enjoy this - it might not happen again for another 20 odd years!!
Karl Masters
28   Posted 20/12/2007 at 22:59:40

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Forgot to say: Why not 11 wins before Christmas on Sunday? They’re playing well, but so are we.
Tony Williams
29   Posted 20/12/2007 at 23:08:12

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David, David, David!!!

What’s the matter lad? Come and tell Uncle Tony why you are so depressed.

I agree that there are a few FM2007 heads on here that are going a little over the top but if you can’t get excited over a 13 game unbeaten run you must have passed away a while ago.

Either you are a bored rs wum or just one of the most pessimistic posters on here, even Tony Marsh has lightened up after the run we have had.

Enjoy it while it lasts
Stig Meacham
30   Posted 20/12/2007 at 22:54:07

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I had this massive bout of ’post-send guilt’ after what I wrote up there in response to David’s post. I was considering an addendum where I would back-off a bit and apologise for some of the more poorly-worded or sharp retorts directed at one of my fellow Evertonians. I don’t like when any of us go after each other. But this guy f@cking takes the cake.

I don’t necessarily reckon that David reads this board the same way we do?

Perhaps "getting in a lather" means different things to different people? A "lather?" What? Being upbeat about what was once a laughing stock having a great run of form? And for your information, David, we beat a very good team which had a lot to play for today, with a hotch-potch side. That’s fact.

I don’t see a lather. I see a group of like-minded people who are really enjoying themselves on an internet site. And as a season ticket holder, perhaps you can find it within yourself on boxing day to confront some of the real-life lathered-up people seated nearby and take your chance to tell them how full of sh@t they are? I think you should. Be true to yourself. Spread the dread, buddy.

As I wrote in my ultra (a fave word, David?) - lengthy post above, a positive attitude carries over from the supporters to the players on the pitch. So for you travelers on the Sunday, or you home support on the 26th, "lather"-up, will you?
Gareth Keay
31   Posted 20/12/2007 at 23:43:58

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Penis
Stig Meacham
32   Posted 20/12/2007 at 23:53:41

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Gareth,

It probably took me and David as long to rattle off what we did as it took you to write ’penis’.

Still funny, though! Can I add ’cunt’?
Dave Turner
33   Posted 21/12/2007 at 00:02:16

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Calm down dears, it’s only ’a’ perspective.
David Jones
34   Posted 20/12/2007 at 23:56:17

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Stefan Tosev - The mighty AZ have never lost to anyone in europe?? First off that is factually incorrect. Secondly I would ask you of their great home record over the years, so what?? What has that got to do with the here and now?? They sit 10th in a shite domestic league and got beat away to Nurnberg, who are rubbish, and only just scraped past Larissa at home. Past achievements are all very nice but they don’t effect the here and now. I watched the game, they are a poor side, simple. We have definitely improved though because last year and the year before I think we would have crumbled after they equalised. I have to say they were really bad though. Technically decent but they had no heart at all to say qualification was at stake.
James Byrne
35   Posted 21/12/2007 at 00:01:43

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Dave Jones, what a load of horse-shit!

Do yourself and every other bluenoses a favor, swap out your season ticket for a Wigan, Sunderland or Bolton one so you can really enjoy watching shite week in week out! Maybe then your ridiculous comments and analysis will match the shite you would of been watching on a Saturday afternoon.

Glad your not sitting next to my season ticket, FFS!
Peter Bourke
36   Posted 20/12/2007 at 23:55:07

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Send Davey down to us here in Aussie Land and i will have 20 Tim Cahills waiting for him to impersonate a corner flag....
David Jones
37   Posted 21/12/2007 at 00:23:40

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Hi Peter, thanks for that insightful response. Will this be after you are all steaming drunk and full of courage after, oooooo, lets say 2 schooners of Fosters(watered down of course!!)?? Do me a favour chump.
Tony Williams
38   Posted 21/12/2007 at 00:35:18

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David, hows about you stop and think before you post?

You are a pessimist, we get it but no matter how many times you try and say we have played shite teams, you are not going to make the good feelings go away.

Here’s a question. How long have you had a season ticket for and why did you renew it, as it is only this season in a long time where the football is almost getting there. You seem to still want to bring everyone down, so why do you still go the game, if we are as shit as you seem to making us out to be?

Perspective is one thing but being a moaning old arse is another
Phil Bellis
39   Posted 21/12/2007 at 00:42:40

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David...grow up
Here’s a text after tonight’s game from my mate, an Oldham fan exiled in Essex
"Jesus! I’m really scared of what you’ll do to us..any chance of you lot fielding a weakened team?
The games against Man U and Arsenal will NOT define our season; everyone else has to play them!. Have you not got eyes in your head? Do you not know good football when you see it?
Stefan Tosev
40   Posted 21/12/2007 at 00:50:31

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I give up David we are shite, thanx for enlightening me up, appreciate it
David Jones
41   Posted 21/12/2007 at 00:50:04

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Tony where have I said we are ’shit’?? Several replies are along the same line as yours, they appear to be in response to something entirely different from what I have written. I was at pains to point out, several times, that I am delighted with our current form. My point was that some people are getting carried away. They are. The same people who are making stupid responses to me on here now who are seemingly incapable of reading and understanding a basic point.
David Jones
42   Posted 21/12/2007 at 00:54:46

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Stefan, thanks again. Your contributions have been invaluable. Or perhaps not.
Ron Wilmington
43   Posted 21/12/2007 at 03:06:36

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Man, we used to get 24 hours before someone pissed in the soup.
Peter Bradshaw
44   Posted 21/12/2007 at 05:16:08

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Yeah Gods what a crock of shit
can see us getting a point on Sunday and if you look at it you can see us getting a result if we continue the form against anyone. BTW, no one drinks Fosters in Australia you dick, cos its exported for pricks like you to drink. I should know Im the one who pisses in it
Brendan McLaughlin
45   Posted 20/12/2007 at 21:56:07

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Lets face it, if we were on a run of 13 games without having won, the "anti-Moyes" brigade would be all over this site like a rash. But we are doing well and suddenly its time for a bit of perspective and we all "knee-jerkers" BOLLOCKS!

The result last night was the perfect response to this shit article.

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