Column Old Doubts Return Brian Noble 07/01/2008 27comments | Jump to last These have been difficult times for the few of us who have continued to believe that our manager is not exactly The Second Coming. Even dear old Marshy preferred a dish of humble pie to his traditional Christmas meal as, in the light of a good run of results, The Moyesiah was hailed on all fronts. So it`s a brave man who sticks his head above the parapet and dares to say that, once again ,The Great Moyestro has fucked up big time. As I was always taught to be modest, perhaps I should amend the word bravery to foolish which, no doubt, many will be keen to label me! Be that as it may, I can`t help saying that Saturday`s debacle was another on the list of inexcusable cock-ups in which this manager always seems to specialise. We know that he`s no tactical genius ? indeed 4-1-4-1 marks him as a `one trick pony` but his team selections for sudden-death games usually defy belief. Of course, we are asked to accept that the man is still learning and in the sense that the whole of life is a learning exercise, I guess that`s true. But errors of this nature mark -?and blemish ? his career as a manager, going back to his tenure at Preston. On another front, he stands accused of not covering all the bases as our paucity of talent in midfield, central defence and goal is being ruthlessly exposed at this half-way stage of the season. Whatever possessed the man to put his faith in Gravesen when every Scottish newpaper was billing him a has-been is beyond me. Jagielka now looks a grossly over-rated and over-priced journeyman whilst the German goalkeeper is yet another in a long list of hapless jokes Moyes has signed in this position. A question of priorities, I was told on Saturday, so I can only assume that the Carling Cup is the `big one` in Davey`s eyes. Well, later today we shall see how shrewd he really is ?although anything short of a pasting at Stamford Bridge will no doubt be hailed as a triumph; shirts to the crowd again lads on the back of a draw? Let`s hope I`m hopelessly wrong and the recent defeats were really down to bad fortune rather than more serious faults in the set-up. The trouble is that, unless and until this manager puts some silverware in the boardroom, I shall continue to doubt whether he and the man who brought him here really are a holy alliance. Reader Comments Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer John Addison 1 Posted 08/01/2008 at 05:18:24 Report abuse Hmm... that’s just a skewed analysis of our present state: 6th in the league, in the semi-final of the League Cup, through to the next round of the UEFA Cup (and topped our group) and got dumped out of the FA Cup by lowly Oldham.That last one is tough, but we’re hardly being "ruthlessly exposed", rather we’re mixing it up better than we have done in years, but will take a few knocks along the way too, which Saturday undoubtedly was. We don’t have to meekly accept that as the way it has to be (getting knocked out by Oldham that is), but neither do we need to go getting our knickers in a twist when the facts just don’t bear out your argument.You cite Scottish newspapers to back up your point about his transfer policy - So you’re saying our manager should listen to the press for his transfer dealings? That’d be interesting...You make no mention of the likes of Arteta, Cahill, Lescott, Martyn, Pienaar, Yakubu...There’s just no balance here and you seem to have a need to criticize for the sake of it. There’s also no consideration of the constraints Moyes works under - considerably less resources than the (so-called) "Big Four" for example.All in all, Everton is in the healthiest position for 20 years. Who would you have in Moyes’s place who would do a better job? Seriously, who? Martin Cutler 2 Posted 08/01/2008 at 05:28:52 Report abuse Let’s not put too much pressure on Moyes, eh?One result, and we get a posting like the one above.............utter crap I say!I genuinely believe that aside from the occasion (i.e. it’s the FA Cup, shit happens) if anybody is to blame it’s the lads (as much as I hate to say that) not Moyes.....Howard, it turns out, was injured and having only seen the goal as late as today I will add that any decent goalie should have stopped that one! Wessels was the goalie not Moyes!Insisting that Moyes has to do something that many managers have failed to do is just plain nonsense.....there is no doubt (and yes he has his faults) but he’s the best thing to happen to EFC in a long time.....lets remind ourselves (and especially Brian Noble) that we are in the semi-final later today, on Saturday we could be in 4th spot in the Prem and we have every chance of getting to the QF in the UEFA Cup (at least the QF).Now granted none of that is a trophy yet (as Moyes himself will tell us in every interview) but I’ll gladly take any one of them and be more than happy with this season! Martin Cutler 3 Posted 08/01/2008 at 05:43:55 Report abuse Just to clarify...when I said "posting above" I meant Brian Noble’s posting.........I agree with John Addison 100%. Mark Stone 4 Posted 08/01/2008 at 08:04:29 Report abuse It didn’t take long, did it? Predictably ... Erik Dols 5 Posted 08/01/2008 at 08:02:07 Report abuse Yeah, let’s judge Moyes on the last game played and act like he’s been managing the side that way for six years now. John Sreet 6 Posted 08/01/2008 at 08:57:33 Report abuse Mr Noble,your language is unaccepteable... maybe the man made a mistake, to say he totally fucked up is cruel and unecessary.Personally, with the funds he?s had, I think he?s a genius.... two points behind the multi million pound mighty Liverpool. I find posts like these irritating still I guess there are some who just have to vent their feelings no matter how irrational it may sound to others. Honestly, Moyes may not be the greatest manager in the world, but I think most prem teams would take him in a heartbeat. Give him a £100 million then judge him. I guess his formations are built to suit the strength and talent he has... ever thought of that? Chris Briddon 7 Posted 08/01/2008 at 09:10:23 Report abuse Its no surprise really that the poster has judged Moyes on one game, after all he appears to have judged Jagielka & Wessells on that one game as well.Prior to that game, Wessells has done pretty well in his other appearances & Jagielka has looked fairly solid at centre back when he has palyed their (Arsenal excepting when all the back 4 & Keeper had an off day)As stated by numerous posters since Saturday, the team that turned out for Everton was good enough to beat Oldham, the fact that it didn’t can be put down to poor player performance not bad management. After all with a couple of exceptions it was the team that won in Alkmaar (which no other team had done in europe EVER!) Mick Wrende 8 Posted 08/01/2008 at 10:02:43 Report abuse I think Brian has a good point as Moyes obviously has no interest in the FA Cup so just put out a hotch potch of a team. As he said on the official site that they have moved on from Saturday's game. Well some of us who watched that disgrace find it more difficult to accept. Moyes said this season he wants to win a trophy - well thats one tossed away. Tonight realistically will see the end of another. If as stated above that side was good enough to beat Oldham then it is certainly good enough to beat a Norwegian side so will it be that team he plays? I dont think so. Marcus Dawson 9 Posted 08/01/2008 at 10:34:03 Report abuse I?ve been less inclined to comment on this site recently because I feel that it lacks balance. Giving headline space to Brian Noble underlines my point, but I feel compelled to respond on this occasion to what I can only describe as a ruthlessly poor piece of opportunism. How ?noble? of Brian to describe himself as brave for daring to stick his head above the parapet, is that really how you see yourself? In actual fact Brian you?re a coward, picking on the first opportunity you can to drive the knife in. Poor performance on Saturday and dreadfully disappointing result, set against a very good season. Let?s put things into context and try to get a sense of perspective, there are plenty of Brians out there, fully entitled to there say, I just don?t quite understand why TW takes them so seriously. David Graves 10 Posted 08/01/2008 at 10:31:32 Report abuse Mick Wrende - so tonight will see the end of our hopes of winning a trophy will it?God I wish I could sail through life with your levels of optimism.Hold on to your negative thoughts though because after tonight I think you might just look the pessimistic winger that you obviously are. Donald Marriot 11 Posted 08/01/2008 at 10:43:58 Report abuse David - agree with your comments but I think you mean whinger. Stefan Tosev 12 Posted 08/01/2008 at 11:32:10 Report abuse After all they call us "bitter blues" now I see what do they mean Kev Prytherch 13 Posted 08/01/2008 at 11:47:36 Report abuse Doesn’t anyone else think that being dumped out of the cup could be a blessing in disguise??? Do we really need another burden of cup fixtures when we’re chasing Europe in the league and hopefully chasing the UEFA cup? Chelsea couldn’t chase all competitions last year after spending about 10 billion quid on various players so why should we think we’d be able to compete on 4 fronts with a squad that can only just cover current injuries and suspensions. If we finish in the top 6 this year and do well in Europe we should look back at this defeat as a blessing.When we’ve got a couple of free weekends at the end of Jan and the start of Feb to give our players a well earned rest we won’t be moaning. Karl Masters 14 Posted 08/01/2008 at 12:03:36 Report abuse I dare say that Brian will be hiding behind the sofa tonight, just being brave enough to stick his head up every 10 minutes to see how many we are losing by!For God’s sake, man. Get a grip. We wait years for days like this.I’m going tonight, I’m gonna enjoy the experience, cheer the Boys on and I think we’ll get a good result. Brian can chew his nails and worry about the cost of carrots or something!! Per Stumo 15 Posted 08/01/2008 at 12:16:14 Report abuse I don’t care if Moyes had put out the entire reserve squad against Oldham because even they should have been good enough to go through, pretty much regardless of which "standard" formation we used. Oldham played ran their socks off and played well above their usual standards while we were well below par. Blaming Moyes for that is beyond pointless.As for SK Brann in the UEFA cup.. they’re head and shoulders above Oldham in every respect and if our players come to Norway thinking the match is going to be a walkover they’re going to be flying back home to Liverpool shamed and embarrassed. Chris Masey 16 Posted 08/01/2008 at 12:29:32 Report abuse Thanks for putting the negative feelers out just as the club and fans prepare for the biggest football game of the last ten years. Cheers for that Brian. Chris Masey 17 Posted 08/01/2008 at 12:37:05 Report abuse Marcus- I’m with you mate. 100% agree. Ben Greenwood 18 Posted 08/01/2008 at 12:47:16 Report abuse Why has it been a difficult time, Brian?Have you not enjoyed the recent run. I agreed with Michael that Blues don’t wait in hope that the manager fucks up. But this guy’s first line shows that they do.Brian - for shame. Tony Williams 19 Posted 08/01/2008 at 13:48:25 Report abuse A virtual pint for Ben Greenwood for is very astute question."Why has it been a difficult time, Brian?"Why would a run of good form and defeats to the last two Premiership champions be so hard for an Evertonian?Very strange comments indeed David Yates 20 Posted 08/01/2008 at 13:48:19 Report abuse I supopse this gentleman would want a Wembley or City of Manchester stadium ticket if we get there.... fickle as ever.Us blues have waited some tiime now for these days back, nothing is won yet agreed, but its a good feeling to go to Goodison again.....and that's all down to Moyes. We are going to have hic-ups, some big ones, but I like the direction in which we are moving. To all of us I say "Keep the faith"....and leave others to bemoan and be fickle.We are Evertonians..... Gareth Hughes 21 Posted 08/01/2008 at 14:17:47 Report abuse As a firm Moyes -sceptic, even I can recognise the unfairness in Brian’s posting. Its a cheap, infact pathetic shot at a manager who has his faults but is still a clear improvement on previous ones. I posted yesterday about my fears going into tonights match. This was based on our midfield absentees and Moyes’ lack of midfield signings in the summer. Having seen Chelseas absentees for tonight maybe all is’nt lost! But when deprived of his first choice eleven Moyes has displayed a certain eccentricity in past team selections. The team he picks tonight and subsequent result will further shape my feelings about him. Aj and Baines out wide with Cahill, Neville and Cars in the middle would seem the best way to go but lets wait and see shall we Brian... Neil Pearse 22 Posted 08/01/2008 at 14:27:52 Report abuse A few facts before we all agree that Moyes should be hung and we should plead with Sam Allardyce to join us from the barcodes.One: the team put out on Saturday should have been more than good enough to beat Oldham. Some people are talking as if Moyes put out Kissock, Asgard and Vidarsson, when he actually put out a team full of players with international recognition.Two: the weakest part of the team was indeed the midfield, in which Moyes was missing Arteta, Cahill and Osman by injury or suspension, not choice. Teams suffer when their best players are absent.Three: Gravesen was brought in to Goodison at the last minute when the Fernandes deal fell through. That failed deal may be many people’s fault; it wasn’t Moyes’s. In the circumstances a known quantity like Gravesen was a reasonable choice to boost the squad. Obviously Moyes is under no illusion about Gravesen’s current quality: that’s why he hasn’t played him very often.Four: Jagielka has struggled to settle, but has recently had some rave notices as a centre back. Obviously he is not as good as Yobo or Lescott, but then he is not a first choice defender and cost very little in modern terms, so what do you expect? Vidic?I could go on, but what’s the point? Brian, people like you talk as if Everton Football Club exists in a world without constraints of money or resources, should be able to field a second choice team of excellence, win all games without ever resting anyone, and basically beat anyone on any day, even given the chances and peculiarities of cup football. Rejoin the real world please. Dave Cooper 23 Posted 08/01/2008 at 15:30:44 Report abuse Imagine you are currently the manager of the Blues.....5/6th in the league, Carling cup semi and UEFA and Cup still needing 9 games to win it (I think!!!) The FA Cup needs another 5/6 games (with or without replays) to win it....you have injuries, suspensions, players missing in the AFN...what sort of team do you put out to play Oldham???? I truly believe Moyes wants to win each game that comes along...winning is a great habit. But realistically he picks a team that is "available" given that certain players are injury prone, need a rest (if anyone ever needed a rest its Pienaar who has been outstanding..and he plays!!!) etc and you have another 35-40 games to go to achieve success. So I for one understand what Moyes was doing and hoping to get away with it...so to speak...on another day he would have...the ref blows the whistle 30 secs earlier etc. but he didn’t... he knows that....we know that..but shit happens so lets just MOVE on....regardless of what happens at the Bridge...its still been the best season since Reidy and those guys were around...COYB!!!! John Lloyd 24 Posted 08/01/2008 at 16:05:24 Report abuse You are all talking like Moyes went out of Fa cup on purpose you plonkers!!!He rested players that have flogged themselves for us or were injured and we got knocked out by a lower league team who where very spirited and very lucky and who deserve some credit!!!We’re not the first team to be the victim of a giant kiling & we wont be the last. It was bad on saturday, really bad but it happens to the best of them sometimes. Steven Mills 25 Posted 08/01/2008 at 17:26:36 Report abuse To be fair, Gravesen was a stop gap signing as the deadline was coming and we needed a midfielder.You can hardly blame Moyes for getting a player he knew all about and a player who knew the club and the system we play etc.Would you rather him have bought some unknown foreigner for a load of money who turned out to be rubbish? Gravesen was a low risk signing - it hasnt worked out but in the grand scheme of things he hasnt cost us much!The only reason we went for Gravesen in the 1st place was because a certain Manuel Fernandes let us down!Finally, I wouldnt take too much notice of what the Scottish Tabloids say - they all said Gravesen was finished and also think that Mcfadden is their answer to Pele! James Mullarkey 26 Posted 08/01/2008 at 18:07:57 Report abuse Abusive content removed by moderator Paul Olsen 27 Posted 08/01/2008 at 23:27:44 Report abuse Some people are just hopelessly beyond reason.What makes this site bad, when it in fact could be pretty good.There?s just no middle-way, there?s only heaven and hell. Andy 28 Posted 09/01/2008 at 00:13:45 Report abuse You Brian, are an idiot. James Mullarkey 29 Posted 09/01/2008 at 12:42:37 Report abuse Abusive posting removed by moderator © ToffeeWeb