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Voicing an opinion

By Tony Marsh :  14/01/2008 :  Comments (92) :
Another good win on Saturday and 3 more points towards a champions league spot or so they say. What worries me more and more these days though is not the football we are playing or the results but a certain section of the Everton fans.

It now appears that fans like myself are not allowed to be critical of David Moyes or his tactics as it causes mass outrage amongst the faithful. Last week I was bombarded from all sides by the most loyal of DM's followers for daring to question his credibility.

Since when did having an opinion on an Everton FC employee become a hanging offence?

It's is we the fans who are the life blood of our club. It is we who buy the season tickets and the merchandise. It is the fans who buy the Sky dishes and Setanta subscriptions and help swell the coffers of the football feeding trough ? so why can't we all have our say when we feel fit?

I have never seen so many people rush out to defend Moyes as we witnessed last week on ToffeeWeb. To be honest, it was embarrasing to see so many fans taking it personally and really acting it as though it was an attack on thier families or something. I sullied the good name of their hero Darling Dave and they didn't like it one bit. Well tough titties.

Like I say, David Moyes is a club employee. Nothing more, nothing less. Having a go at him for being scared during the Chelsea game is not a crime against humanity ? it's what we football supporters do.

If you put the time, effort and hard earned dough in to following the club of your choice then surely you earn the right to have a go at the manager or players whenever a major fuck-up occurs ? like at Chelsea last week. They take the plaudits when they get it right, so why not the stick when they fuck up?

What's more, I never once in the post asked for Moyes to be sacked but many of you seem to think I did. I know he is going nowhere so I don't ask for him to be removed. I actually think Moyes is starting to do a decent job compared to the past but that won't stop me be critical if I think cock ups or bottle jobs are happening on a frequent basis..... Why should it?

There are too many of you out there who refuse to open your eyes whenever things go wrong. It just won't do to critisize Darling Dave because it means you're not a real fan. In fact it means you should go and watch Liverpool. It also means the club are better off without such fans as they are a disruptive influence on the rest of the sheep... erm, sorry ? fans.

What fucking nonsene. What utter garbagge. What a wimpish way for grown men to behave. You're not a real fan if you slag off the manager from time to time? That is just bullshit. Some of you need to get out more and listen to what some die hard match-going Evertonians actually think about the team at times. It's not all bad but it sure ain't all good either.

Moyes is not a flawless diamond. Moyes is not perfection personified. He is a decent manager who falls back in to old ways from time to time. He is certainly no Jock Stein though, as some of you like to think he is. One of our lot on here yesterday was even saying Moyes is a hero because we won't be relegated this season... For fuck's sake ?talk about lowering the bar!

Football is all about opinions. Where some see good, others see bad and that will never change. I think McFadden is crap; some think he is wonderful. Who is right and who is wrong? The same applies to Phil Neville. I think he is awful; others think he is marvellous. I am not saying I am right ? it's just my opinion, that's all.

As far as I am concerned, if we can't give players or the manager a kick up the arse when they start to balls things up then we might as well pack it all in right now. When the time comes that being critical makes you less of a supporter then that's the time the lunatics have taken over the asylum. As for this "not being an Evertonian" jibe ? that's the best laugh of all.

I would sooner chop me balls off with a rusty stanley knife than watch those shower of Twats across the park. I am a true a Blue as you will ever find. So please disagree all you like but don't call me a Kopite. I just might bump in to you down a dark alley one night... COYBs

Reader Comments

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Alex Baker
1   Posted 14/01/2008 at 15:16:15

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I can understand what you are saying Tony, but some people just get frustrated by the endless amounts of negativity that you come out with. Come on, it is very rare to see you come out with something positive about the club. Having said that, you are right that people shouldn’t tear you appart because of your passionate (though rather pessimistic) views. If I do meetyou in some dark alley, do you mind if I kick you in the balls and run for it?
John Sreet
2   Posted 14/01/2008 at 15:16:33

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Tony mate you?re working yourself up into a state............the rhetoric and language seems to get stronger the longer you write. I don?t have an issue with anyone being critical of an everton manager, but like you, I and others have the right to voice strong opinions against those views.
Much of what I read from the anti Moyes brigade is cynical, so perhaps adopting a more skeptical approach than cynical approach would lead to better debate and less heated arguments.
I?m sure you are a blue and desperate for the team to do well, in that we are all united.
I think success is coming, and personally I think he?s doing a great job, he?s not without his faults (who is), but he?s been given a good run at it and at last we have a team, and all of this on a limited budget.

Moyes isn?t perfect in that you are correct, but he?s level on points with the money-no-object reds and not millions of miles behind Chelsea. Perhaps he?s better than you think!
Mark Perry
3   Posted 14/01/2008 at 15:23:36

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I would take your views far more seriously if you occasionaly praised David Moyes. It must of cut you to the bone to call him a "Decent manager".

David Moyes is a very good manager with the chance to become a great one and make us a truly great club again.

Yes he makes mistakes, with subs occasionaly and he is getting alot more confident with them.

Most of your predictions of "Were all doomed" have come to naught. Were still in Europe - you said we wouldnt qualify from the group stage. We are still in the Carling Cup - Need to win 1-0 at HOME to progress. and 5th in the Leauge.

When you are more objective i?ll listen, untill then its a nother Marsh Rant.
Sam Morrison
4   Posted 14/01/2008 at 15:26:27

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You?re right, you shouldn?t be castigated for having an opinion. However other people are also allowed theirs and have the right to reply - isn?t that what TW is about?

Beyond that I agree that sometimes responses go too far and to be honest I?m bored to hell of people telling other people to "fuck off and watch the RS"

I agree with very little of what you say but I respect your right to say it. However if you don?t want the irate responses perhaps you could leave out the dripping sarcasm employed above - hardly gets things off on the right foot, does it?
Steve Hogan
5   Posted 14/01/2008 at 15:29:12

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Tony, to quote directly from your last article on 14th Jan, ’ Moyes is a coward’,’ Moyes is a dud manager’ ’No bottle, no leadership, no class’.

And you wonder why you get such a reaction.

Whatever else he is, and the majority of his supporters widely acknowledge the mistakes he has made in the past, and the mistakes he will make in the future, he ain’t any of the things you described above.

What really gets up peoples noses is the personal nature of the attacks on a regular basis.

By all means criticise, it’s everybodies right to do so, just be less bitter about it.
Dan Mckie
6   Posted 14/01/2008 at 15:29:58

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You called Moyes a decent manager in this article Tony, yet in your last piece you called him a coward and a dud manager and that got 1 or 2 backs up! He isnt perfect but he is good and getting better but you seem only a little short of calling for his head when we lose rather than constructive criticism! If we had gone for Chelsea’s throat and got caught out on the break (by some very good players) then you would still have slated him for that!
Steve Holcroft
7   Posted 14/01/2008 at 15:33:26

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Tony, we have our best team ( and manager) for 20 years. We cannot spend £30-50 million per year on players, yet we compete with teams who do.Therer is no better midfield in the prem, we have 5 great strikers all fighting for a starting place, we have one of the best goalies in the prem and THE best centre half ( who is also one of the left backs when required). Its taken 5 years to get here and things are getting better and better. Its about time you gave some credit where its due. I now live in Manchester and my eldest lad has taken some stick at school over the years for being an evertonian but now all his mates give him real respect for being an evertonian and he has some real heroes to worship... just like I did when I was his age....COYB!!
David Barks
8   Posted 14/01/2008 at 15:36:55

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It’s not the criticism of the manager or the team that gets people so pissed. People come on here and voice there displeasure with this or that and it doesn’t illicit 200 angry responses. With you Tony it is how you say it, the disgraceful words you use to describe the manager after a couple of poor performances. You come on here calling him a coward, or this quote from just last week:
"Moyes is a dud manager and the Wheels are well and truly off as far as this season goes. Don’t for one minute think we can turn this tie around when we will have to chase the game at Goodison Park."
This kind of talk is just pathetic, yes, pathetic. A dud manager and having no hope of reaching Wembley when all we need is a 1-0 win at Goodison. When so many come out and say how wrong you are, how ridiculous your "opinions" are perhaps the better thing to do would be to look in the mirror and reflect on why so many seem to completely disagree with you.
Paul Leneham
9   Posted 14/01/2008 at 15:49:04

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As many said last week, it was the tone and choice of language which people took issue with. Criticise all you like, point out where you feel he and the team went wrong but remember he is one of us and therefore deserves a modicum of respect and should not have to accept personal attacks on his character.
Simon Hughes
10   Posted 14/01/2008 at 15:49:21

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Tony

If you dish it out, you should be able to take it. I have no problem with Everton fans criticising Moyes or anyone else when it’s deserved. However, your stuff on here is usually of the ’knee jerk’ variety epitomised by your Chelsea comments, which were well over the top.

All managers make mistakes - it’s the nature of the job. Moyes consistently frustrates me with what I perceive to be a reluctance to make changes on the field early enough. But, everything taken into account, he is one fantastic manager and deserves a lot more credit than you have ever given him on here. Enjoy it while it lasts.
Arthur jones
11   Posted 14/01/2008 at 15:43:20

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I don’t know if David Moyes reads these pages or is even aware of their existence but when you insult him to the extent you have done , ... Coward ?,..... no bottle , leadership or class ? ... he either treats your remarks with the contempt they deserve or , more likely , doesn’t know of them , whatever , some fans choose , yes choose to defend him because as you have said , these are personal insults , your opinion yes but insults all the same and wholly undeserved . So when people choose to defend him as fans , season ticket holders , sky and setanta subscribers , don’t be surprised , because as fans , thats our right too and if you don’t like that , then tough titties
David Jones
12   Posted 14/01/2008 at 15:56:29

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Couldn’t comment on your original post Tony as I didn’t read it but I agree with everything you have said there.

I have been very critical of Moyes in the past but I think he is getting it right this season, there has been a big change in his attitude and outlook IMO.

If however the wheels come off and things start going wrong, because of decisions he makes, then I will be right back on at him.

The simple reason for this is that I want the best for my club. Manchester United have dominated english football for over a decade by having characters like Fergie and Roy Keane driving the club forward in line with their own exacting standards.

I just feel, like I sense you do, that we have too many excuse makers amongst our support at the moment. My attitude is ’no excuses, just do it’. I don’t think that is a bad thing. I think this season that the club as a whole has been far more geared towards that way of thinking. All the playing down of our aims in previous seasons has driven me mad, it is a recipe for failure. Don’t set low standards that are easy to achieve and have a good old back slapping session if you finish 6th...set 6th as a minimum target and say job done if you manage it and save the backslapping and champagne for the advent of a real achievement.

We will only ever become better by demanding improvement. Even if we do overreact from time to time I am glad there are people like me and Tony around who will speak out and have a good moan when standards drop. It is Fergies way and it was Keanes way and it is the way of most winners in sport.

Moyes is a football manager, not a religion. When he does well I will praise, when standards slip I will be onto him.

Common sense.
David Torley
13   Posted 14/01/2008 at 15:57:16

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I would class myself as an Everton supporter and don’t really see what is achieved by vituperative attacks on the manager.

Supporting should be a positive emotion.

No reason to be blind to faults either but the language used by TM is often beyond the pale. Half of the people on here are just standing up for Moyes human right not to be called a useless twat because we lost the first leg of a cup tie, away from home, to a club that has spent hundreds of millions of pounds, by a last minute OG from a player being pushed in te back at the time.

We’re getting there Tony, we’re getting there.
John Lloyd
14   Posted 14/01/2008 at 16:07:14

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David dont lump yourself & Tony into a bracket with people like Keane & Ferguson. These are people who can actually make a difference to the situations they are in, you & more so Tony are like the whinging foreigners who if you aren’t winning week in, eek out demand a transfer somewhere more succesfull.

If our job is to support then do it, we have every right to criticise the team & players AND manager when its not going well but throwing out personal insults like calling the manager ’a dud, a coward etc etc’ as Tony did in his last article helps nobody at all. He has made a number of ’predictions’ of doom for over 6/7 months now that have failed to come to fruition & his lost post/column was that over the top the responses were sometimes quite nasty.

He’s probably slept on it now & realises he was a little over the top, hence why he has come on again all hard done to, compare this piece to his last, its like 2 different people, Tony Jekyll & Hyde Marsh possibly
Chris Masey
15   Posted 14/01/2008 at 16:07:09

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Tony, you are probably the most infamous contributor on this site, so don?t throw your toys out of the pram because a few fans stood up to you. You voice your opinion much more than I am able to do, and you have influence when you do it. The problem with your last article was its needless negativety, and the fact that it stated the obvious. We all know the team fucked up against Chelsea, and Moyes?s role was suspect. You just like to drive the knife in like usual, when everyone was still feeling pretty crap about the situation.

Moyes will never be more than decent to you, but to label him as just another employee of the club is utterly scandalous. This guy is our leader and manager, and as your articles have a strong influence on this site, Moyes plays a major part in the club's progression. Keep raising the bar Tony, but atleast give the manager acheivable goals when you do it.

Anthony Osullivan
16   Posted 14/01/2008 at 16:23:35

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So Tony are you saying people should respect your opinion by shutting up and keeping their opinions to themselves!! Oh the irony.

Its not that people dont think you should be aloud to express yourself it just that people are tired of your constant expressing of the same opinion over and over and over again. If you didnt write another letter for a year id still know how you feel about Moyes.

Every one knows Moyes has his faults and that the process of making us great again is a slow one its just unlike you we can see the bigger picture that your tabliod mentalliy will never allow you to see.
Martin Gray
17   Posted 14/01/2008 at 16:28:40

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I find it interesting that amongst all the debate around David Moyes currently there has been no mention of his decision making on Saturday. (Sorry if I have missed it somewhere) I think his substitution of McFadden after an hour was a great decision and swung the game back in our favour. Vaughan comes on, clatters Dunne, chases a few lost causes and all of a sudden the crowd is up for it and we started to play in their half. I have criticised Moyes on several occasions in the past and I will probably do so again, like all passionate Blues, but I believe credit is due here.
Chris Keightley
18   Posted 14/01/2008 at 16:37:01

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Tony, I would have loved to have seen your comments on a site like this when Walter Smith was in charge!!! You just make me laugh it reminds me of the bloke down the pub who sits in the corner ranting and raving from 7-11 with a half pint and sponging fags remarking on how good it used to be in the 80s. Times have changed, money now calls the shots, and the best get better, and the rest play catch up. At the moment we are the fifth best team in the best league in the world, 1-0 away from a cup final and still in the Uefa Cup with a squad good enough to reach the semis in my opinion, and then who knows?? Everton's fortunes may be bleak in your world but in mine there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Let the good times roll.
Sean Rico
19   Posted 14/01/2008 at 16:27:54

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TONY

Firstly I would like to say sorry as I was one of those people who (tore) into you for your previous comment last week.

Yes, you have the right to voice your opinion like the rest of us, but I just get the impression that you go to the games to try and pick holes in Moyes's tactics, team selection, and subs selections, instead of just going to the game and cheering on your team!!

Yes Moyes makes mistakes, so does Sir Alex (coventry anyone???) but please remember its the players who take to the pitch every week not Moyes!! I'm not saying don't ever slag Moyes off but just cut him some slack Tony. It's easy to blame the manager, why didn't I hear you give stick about the performances of McFadden or Gravesen lately, or why you are not praising the likes of Hibbo, yes Hibbo, Lescott, Jags,or Cars??

Anyway Tony, not that long ago we were relegation candidates every year, changeing managers more often than Newcastle. Now we are going for Europe nearly every season, with a young very skillful squad, playing some decent stuff. So credit where credit is due.
Micky Norman
20   Posted 14/01/2008 at 16:32:20

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I don’t agree with most of Tony Marsh’s posts, although he occasionally says what some dare not and creates a hell of a more interesting site when he does. I sometimes look at other clubs fan sites (mostly to see what they are saying about EFC) and one thing is crystal- TW is miles above most because of Tony Marsh and others with conflicting views being given access to vent their feelings rather than just following the usual bland crap which the clubs will approve of. Without criticism there is never much progress. I just wish we could cut out some of the abusive stuff between fans on here because it makes us look childish rather than knowledgable, thinking, passionate Everton supporters which is what this site is all about.
Terry Maddock
21   Posted 14/01/2008 at 16:55:36

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Overreactive, Kneejerk, Negative, monotonous,Inflamatory,pointless, not based in fact, over emotive,Cowardly,tripe,defensive, bitter ,cruel, goading,..same old , same old Tony Marsh...the type of fool who makes sure you change your seat come renewal time....

So wrapped in up in his efforts to cement his own infamy, he now resorts to painting himself as some "Bogeyman " avoid you down a dark alley Tony...maybe you should be the one looking over your shoulder...
Peter Roberts
22   Posted 14/01/2008 at 17:02:43

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Tony, I do understand what you?re saying about voicing an opinion, the problem is that when you type stuff like this, you are inevitably going to get a reaction. If you can?t stand that, then I suggest you go elsewhere to voice your opinions, or at least grow a pair. Yes, it?s an opinion, but be prepared to back it up rather than resort to childish crying and name-calling - that?s not what TW is for.

For what it?s worth, I?m not having a go at your content or rights - Moyes is not perfect, nor do you not have a right as Everton?s customer to claim dissatisfaction on substandard products - but rather the way you come across as a negative, acerbic kneejerker who writes stuff to provoke reaction.

And before the pro-Moyes crew think I?m on their side, I?m not. Moyes is not perfect but he?s slowly getting us there. I do get fed up with people voicing their concerns against Moyes and not being able to not be subjected to a torrent of abuse. This is a place to voice opinions, and everyone will have different opinions, so please learn to be tolerant.

And if that works, parenting should be a breeze in the future.... :-)
Chris Tyagatha
23   Posted 14/01/2008 at 16:53:55

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Does Tony Marsh really exist?

Okay it sounds a little left field I must admit, but has anyone ever actually met the man?


Was having a coversation with some colleagues about pepping up web traffic the other day, when one suggested why not create a really contraversial character voicing opinions that couldn?t really be covered by the site in a ludicrously incendiary stle?

I thought it was an intriguing idea, but couldn?t escape the fact I?d seen it before somewhere...then it hit me....Tony Marsh!

Surely no one person could really voice such contrary views in such objectionable style and swing opinions so radically and readily on a forum where the majority of people actually agree with the basics...i.e. we?re actually doing quite well at the moment but there?s still plenty of room for improvement.

Then I happened to spend an idle ten minutes in front of Countdown on the tele and the pieces all started to fall into place. Tony Marsh = Oh my rants!

So come clearn Toffeeweb, we know your game, Tony doesn?t really exist does he? He?s just a character created to inject a little contraversy and pep up traffic during quiet periods and get the chatter going.

Editor's note: Does Chris Tyagatha exits? And if so, where the hell did you get that surname?

Chris Keightley
24   Posted 14/01/2008 at 17:10:39

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Terry, a lot of what i put on here is tongue in cheek yes i got peeved a little with Tony recently but dont retaliate with Tony... maybe you should be the one looking over your shoulder... that wont get his back up, it just tars you with the same brush !!!
Brian Waring
25   Posted 14/01/2008 at 17:05:42

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The thing is Tony, the die hard fans of Moyes are never goint to criticize him, or allow anyone else to have a go at him. Even when we were playing some of the shittest football I had seen from an Everton team for a long time, the usual suspects were up in arms if you were dare to have a go at him. I totally agree with you Tony. If Moyes fucks up in a game, we have every right to criticize him. It happens at every club, FFS, even Wenger and Ferguson have come under attack , when they have cocked up. It is just the nature of the football fan to have a go when manager’s have fucked up tatically, or through bad team selection, substitutions etc.
Mike Allison
26   Posted 14/01/2008 at 17:22:23

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Of course you have the ’right’ to Tony, but then everyone else has the ’right’ to ’tear’ into you if that’s their opinion.

The problem with your opinion is we’ve all heard it, many many times, and its overwhelmingly negative.

People are fed up with you, as they are with the bloke who sits in the corner of the pub moaning about everything.

Have your opinion, but voicing it doesn’t seem to do any good. Why do you?
Paul Lenehan
27   Posted 14/01/2008 at 17:21:31

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No one is disagreeing with you Brian. Its every fans right to criticise. But nobody should have to put up with the nasty drivel that posted on this site last week. Verbal attacks like this are over-the-top. Why could he not have made his point like an adult in a reasoned way pointing out where he felt we fucked up. Instead he attacked the character of Moyes - "coward" "pathetic" "dud" etc etc. Do you really feel this was helpful? Did it stimulate footballing debate?
Terry Maddock
28   Posted 14/01/2008 at 17:34:02

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Chris Keightley..:
That was obviously "tongue in cheek"..
I'm sane you see
Clyde McPhatter
29   Posted 14/01/2008 at 17:40:38

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The thing that drives me crazy about those who complain is they never ever offer what they would have done differently in any particular game. In the Chelsea match, what would you hve done? In the Arsenal match? What? That’s what drives me crazy....Manny"s here now, all should be well because as you naysayers know, it was all Moyes fault the first time around.
Paul Davis
30   Posted 14/01/2008 at 18:03:15

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Tony one thing about you, you are consistant with your opinions. I actually think I know you, I thought your surname was something else though, I have talked to you a few times about the ground move and David Moyes. I remember someone slagging Howard Kendall off, for being a drunk in charge of Everton and you would?t have any of it. My point Tony everyone can have an opinion but respecting other people's is not too hard. I like your posts even though it is obvious you have a strong dislike for Moyes, but other people actualy like him and respect him.
Jimmy Last
31   Posted 14/01/2008 at 18:22:49

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How ironic is it that in TM trying to stop himself being ripped apart he has been, in fact, ripped apart !!
Mark Stone
32   Posted 14/01/2008 at 18:36:16

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Say what you like ... but don’t moan when people who disagree with you have their say - that’s fair isn’t it. Anyway - I was getting abuse from man quarters for being positive about Moyes - same thing?
Allan Hounsgaard
33   Posted 14/01/2008 at 18:27:34

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You’ve got my total support Tony. I don’t always agree with you, but you got your own style and don’t deviate from it, and that to me spells integrity.
And to people who say that you only contribute with negativity, well they are wrong. I remember reading your pieces from around the time we beat Nuremberg away, and they were filled with accolades to every member of the squad, staff..etc. At that time you got what wanted on the pitch, and you gave praise accordingly.
I always enjoy reading whatever you got to say, coz I know it’s a no-nonsense honest approch, even though I might disagree. So don’t stop spilling your heart out.
I wouldn’t mind having a pint with you the next time I come over for a game.
Shaun Kinnair
34   Posted 14/01/2008 at 17:52:39

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Tony M you quote "Football is all about opinions. Where some see good, others see bad and that will never change."... Are you trying to suggest that we can’t have an opinion about you Tony if we feel your talking shit??

It’s your minority opinion that has got the mass majority of true blues to comment, if we feel your opinion is not justified then we as much as you, have every right to voice our opinion too how ever embarrassing it makes you feel.

You quote "Moyes is not a flawless diamond. Moyes is not perfection personified" who is Tony?? The majority all know he’s made mistakes, we all do, even you in posting this article (that’s my opinion), but the majority believe he’s moving Everton forward slowly year by year.

If you love Everton and its like part of your family, then if someone in your family makes a mistake do you support them or criticise them Tony??

I have nothing wrong with you voicing your opinions, so long as you don?t have a problem with me and others being critical of your opinions. It’s when you make personal attacks on others that?s when I believe it’s gone to far.

As for "I just might bump in to you down a dark alley one night"... Tony you make me laugh, if we did meet down a dark alley mate, I think I’d only be scared if you were gay...

If there one thing I can be truly critical about you Tony is your English you either have to learn to spell or put your article through a spell checker (i.e. embarrasing, thier, critisize, nonsene, garbagge)... But then again just like Moyes, Me, You and everyone else, were not perfect, we all make mistakes.... now there something we can both agree on.
Dave Wilson
35   Posted 14/01/2008 at 18:05:20

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Tony
there was no crime in your assessment of the chelsea "opportunity" Thousands of us felt exactly the same way, your crime was to claim we’d blown it where both cups are concerned, our odds lengthened considerably when we payed the penalty for sitting back at SB and you were right to voice your anger, Criticise all you want - its your right - but throwing the towel in is fucken unacceptable
Jimmy Rooney
36   Posted 14/01/2008 at 18:38:29

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Brian Wareing you say in your post about some of the shittest football you have seen for years. How long have you been going to watch Everton, Walter Smith’s brand of Football, I actualy fell asleep in one game, Kendall’s second or was it his third time in charge, the skip man Walker and some of Joe Royals teams where piss poor at times. I can go further back to the screaming scull. In my opinion and I have been to many hundreds of games since 1969 David Moyes has got the potential to be up their with Cattrick and Kendall in the current climate of all this big four shit. I just find people like you and Marsh you are never happy, profesional moaners, doom and gloom merchants, never happy until you have a scapegoat and we call the barcodes fickle.
Stig Meacham
37   Posted 14/01/2008 at 18:45:04

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Tony, as seen above,very few of us on here dispute your ?right?, as it may be, to voice your opinions. It?s the slanderous language and uninformed personal attacks on a man whose character you are utterly unprepared to comment on. You reckon Moyes is a crap manager? Wonderful. Tell us why, and when possible inform us as to what you might do differently. Just leave the inflammatory rhetoric out, and you?d probably see a lot of us on here engaging you in constructive debate. I would.

And for what it?s worth, "coward" isn?t a word I would use to describe our manager. I have to think that were he and you to meet in a your dark alley, he wouldn?t be the one acting the coward. Or the "dud" for that matter.
Michael Squires
38   Posted 14/01/2008 at 18:39:34

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Tony, you accused Moyes of being cowardly, which was a rediculous thing to say and then you start moaning because the majority of fans disagree with you, your outburst was typical of the posts you
make on this websight.anti Moyes, you don?t seem to understand modern football and particularly the limitations that Moyes has had to work under. I think he is doing a very good job. Thats my opinion , I know you don?t. But there we go you?ll just have to put up with it. With the players he had available on Wednesday I thought it was a creditable effort. 2 mistakes cost us the game otherwise we would have won it, and you can?t blame Moyes for players individual errors.

Please try and be a bit more grown up about things when they don?t go the way you want them to.
Kenny Jones
39   Posted 14/01/2008 at 18:56:05

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Someone mentioned above about does Tony Marsh exist of course he does, who the fuck writes the post a ghost. I know Tony from the game, but I know his real name, Tony is a good lad, who loves the club and is against the ground move big time. One thing I do know he goes everywhere with the Blues, he has his views and opinions and sticks by them no harm in that. He knows the score regarding funds and he knows Moyes should be a bit more active in the transfer market, to go for a push for CL football.
Neil Pearse
40   Posted 14/01/2008 at 18:53:41

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Tony, I am surprised at your response here. Arguing is like playing tennis - if you hit the ball really hard, people tend to hit it really hard back. You hit it hard, so... As the saying goes: if you can’t take it, don’t dish it out. But I know you can take it, so not sure what your problem is.

My complaint this time is that you are setting up a bit of a mythical figure with the idea of those in love with Darling Dave. There are a few extreme cases on here (Doddy and Madden come to mind), but most I think do their best to see both sides. I am probably seen as more of a Moyes defender, but actually have called for his head on more than one occasion over the years. The mass of people on here are waverers on the club.

Final thing. I think you outraged many of us last time, not just because of your tone, but because you are being SO negative when many of us feel pretty good about the club we love for the first time in a couple of decades. We are fifth, in Europe etc., and have a whole handful of absolutely top rate players. And we are not a corrupt and / or incompetent laughing stock any more like so many of our rivals, but are actually one of the most highly respected clubs in the country now. And it feels REALLY GOOD. Can’t we get to enjoy at least some of this after all the years of suffering?

Dave Wilson
41   Posted 14/01/2008 at 19:13:15

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Shaun Kinnair

"one thing I can be truely critical about you Tony is your English"
Get a life son, this guy writes the most colourful articles on this site, but he’s an Evertonian not the fucken Poet Laureate
Steve Taylor
42   Posted 14/01/2008 at 19:19:53

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You?re quite right Tony, it?s all about opinions & everyone?s entitled to one. But don?t be surprised if people think yours is bollocks & tell you so!

You were drooling over the football we were playing only a few weeks ago & praising Moyes for what he was doing - you even went as far as eating the preverbial humble pie!

But as soon as our run ended, you were off on your "knee jerk" rants again. Moyes makes mistakes - he?s a human being - he even admitted himself this weekend that he?s still learning after 10 years in management. But he gets more decisions right than wrong & he?s not a manager who makes decisions to please the baying crowd either - he?s his own man & I for one am thankful for that.
John Sreet
43   Posted 14/01/2008 at 19:34:15

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Davey Jones, ..........you?ll be right back on him, this is pathetic stuff,,,,,why because you don?t have any sense of reality in this billionaire industry.......we are midgets as far as finance is concerned.........get back to you locker!!
Tommy Banks
44   Posted 14/01/2008 at 19:58:41

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Re: Arsharvin, this was doing the rounds before Christmas, theres a link on TW but not much info.

Tony Marsh keep them comming, I think Moyes is doing a great job, he is still a young manager and he knows what he needs to play more attacking and free flowing football, I am sure if the fans and board continue to back him, he will get them class players in.

I must admit though, sometimes Moyes does get it wrong, when the playes sit to deep and invite pressure on, should be getting out and clossing the ball down, but he is very defensive minded ? reminds me a bit of George Graham at times ? but he has proved he can get the players playing some decent stuff at times and the table don't lie...

Rob Paterson
45   Posted 14/01/2008 at 20:04:53

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In 1963, when I was seven years of age, I sat in the Bullens Road Stand with my much older brother. It was a night match and an Everton side rich with skill and talent (Young, Vernon, Scott to name but three) but we struggled to score. Behind me in those pre-PC days forgive me) a voice screamed out "You?re just a load of pansies, Everton!" It seems he included Labone in this.

I didn?t know it then of course but it was to be my first encounter with that integral part of the Everton experience ? the moaning whinger whose voice will always be heard when the rest of us think we might be enjoying ourselves. The voice has of course never gone away although it has of course gone through many manifestations ("Kendall out" in 1983 !) and here it is again telling us that David Moyes hasn?t really transformed the team from everybody?s favourite relegation tip to the best team we have had since 1987 (but the voice will say 87 was nowhere near as good as 85!).

But I don?t mind. That dark foreboding voice makes supporting Everton what it is. Colourful, funny, insane at times. But above all, we don?t care what the red shite say. So let's get behind our boys and for once shout louder than the voice behind.

Kevin Batters
46   Posted 14/01/2008 at 21:11:35

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Living here in Waikiki, and looking forward to watching Everton either on FOX Soccer or Sentanta on my lap top, I live or die with the boys every game. But reading ToffeeWeb each day is my morning highlight. I too get frustrated with how we play and who we have on the field sometimes. But I remember all the years when I was happy to just take a point and keep out of the bottom three, so I have to say lets enjoy the better times we are having when anything less than a win is a dissapointment for us now. Lets agree to disagree but lets keep it civil,we all want the same thing in the end wins and cups!. I want to come back for a cup final and will if we make one or both this year! COYB.
Art Greeth
47   Posted 14/01/2008 at 21:35:44

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What incredible gall from Tony M ? ?What worries me more and more these days though is not the football we are playing or the results but a certain section of the Everton fans.? What a self-pitying, sanctimonious, hypocritical piece from the man whose abuse of ?Everton FC employees? and fellow Blues goes beyond hatred and bigotry on a regular basis.

Have you stopped and thought AT ALL Tony just why ?so many people rushed out to defend Moyes last week on ToffeeWeb? in response to your imbecilic post? Respondents were NOT ?taking it personally? as you wish to portray. You had plenty of respondents giving you good grounds as to why they were so dismissive of your observations, but how did you retort? By engaging with the points raised? Did you buggery! I quote: ?stop being a big girl ffs? it?s like dealing with some arl women down the bingo with you crowd.?

This may come as a strange concept to you Tony, but there are many, MANY Blues? supporters out there who do just that: support the club. They are NOT blind. They are NOT stupid. They are NOT talking ?bollox? just because they take a contrary view to you. What they possibly are is more tolerant than you and others who take an extremely cynical view of most things Evertonian. But here again, you call such people ?sheep?.

May I quote you again from your own article above? ?What fucking nonsense. What utter garbage. What a wimpish way for grown men to behave?. And yes Tony ? that is YOU I am volleying that one back at.

Who has EVER claimed on here that ?Moyes is a flawless diamond..?? That ?Moyes is perfection personified..?? In your desperation to ridicule the views of others you regularly attribute views and statements to them that they have never even THOUGHT, let alone uttered or published.

And here you do it again ? accusing others of ?lowering the bar?, when last week in your excruciatingly embarrassing post in the wake of a single goal defeat to Chelsea with a last minute own goal you wrote:
* ?the cups are over and done with? - even though we are just two games from winning a trophy at Wembley and have a good draw in the last 32 of the UEFA Cup?
* we have ?no chance at GP in the second leg of the S/F??
* we are ?on a downward spiral? when Saturday?s win against City lifted us to fifth?

Is it any wonder people took you to task? Remind me again? just who is being the defeatist here??? Yet you had the balls (with or without the blunt Stanley knife?) to describe Moyes as having ?no bottle, no leadership, no class, and no belief in his team??

You believe Moyes has his apologists and sycophants on ToffeeWeb. I believe you have yours, describing you as a ?true, passionate Blue who tells it like it is?. But in MY opinion, whilst you may be a true Blue and you may be passionate, your greatest failing is that you DON?T tell it as it is. The vast majority of what you write is absolute TOILET, Tony.

Now? you carry on writing your Bullshit. I truly, genuinely, believe in your right to do so. But don?t ever tell me that I have to passively accept your crap, because I don?t, and I won’t.
Kevin Sparke
48   Posted 14/01/2008 at 21:40:48

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You reap what you sow Tony... and if that crop is misery and ill thought out hate filled rants- expect some to come back at you.

I find your comments to be much more about ’Tony Marsh’ and less about the true state of Everton, David Moyes, and even Football in general.

Steve Templeton
49   Posted 14/01/2008 at 20:44:06

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Tony, your like a spoilt five year old child who threatens to take his ball home when the other kids won’t let him score a goal.

You launch a vitriolic, highly personal attack on David Moyes and then you moan because some of us have the audacity to defend him because we disagree with your opinion.

Five days ago DM was the worst thing that every happened to our club and this week he’s a decent manager - and you wonder why people get annoyed with your sweeping and vindictive comments?

And yet you can’t help yourself, on the one hand you defend your right as an Evertonian to post your views but on the other hand you refer to your fellow supporters as ’sheep’ for disagreeing with you.

You can’t have it both ways Tony.



You describe the people who criticise you as ’wimpish’ and yet you are on here crying because you’ve received some stick.

You couldn’t make it up!

It’s not Liverpool I would suggest you go and support Tony, it’s Newcastle - you’d fit right in with their supporters kneejerk, post-sky fan mentality where the manager is assessed on 38 minutes and not 38 games over the course of a season.

If you can’t take it - don’t post it.
Mick Mac
50   Posted 14/01/2008 at 21:44:10

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I am suprised you are so offended by fans giving you some stick, Tony, when you criticise our manager. Not so long ago, during the stadium debate, I remeber you lambasting the Yes voters as stupid blind people who follow the Board or have been taken in.

Nice to see that our followers can recognise a wind-up merchant like you, Tony. I also support your right to have comments about the manager or the team and even the Board. But please be fair and take it on the chin like we Yes voters did.

Lewis Abbott
51   Posted 14/01/2008 at 21:53:25

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I agree with Tony. Moyes is a manager who bottles big games, and he has no class. I can never be a Moyes fan after his last couple of games. The chelsea game made me feel ill he was that bad. Everton missed a great chance to get to a final. the best chance I have ever seen, and our negative manager got it wrong. In fact that's a bit harsh cause he never did anyhting, he just sat there and let the game go.

Saying all that, he has turned this club and the team around over the time he has been here, and hopefully he will learn, but I dont know how much longer I can watch this.
Art Greeth
52   Posted 14/01/2008 at 22:23:59

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PS - respect to Chris Tyagatha... brilliant anagram revelation!!!

Tony Marsh = Oh my rants
Alan Ryder
53   Posted 14/01/2008 at 22:25:57

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Hey - pull yourselves away from TONYWEB for a second and read the mailbag thread ’Good ole whinger’. At first I thought it was Tony self publicising again but this one’s a cracking read. He! He! Love it!
Steve Templeton
54   Posted 14/01/2008 at 22:20:33

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Lewis, why has Moyes ’no class’. Please explain.

You could never be a Moyes fan after the last couple of games? What, like beating one of our main rivals for a Uefa Cup (dare I say Champions League) place with a weakened side?

What did Moyes do wrong at Chelsea, in fact please explain what he should have done with the massive resources at his disposal?

But then again he has turned the club around from perennial relegation strugglers to outside champions league challengers, playing attractive football not seen at Goodison for years.

And you can no longer watch?

What planet are you on?
Simon Hughes
55   Posted 14/01/2008 at 22:27:15

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Lewis

How long have you been an Evertonian, mate, 10 minutes? ’Moyes has no class...I can never be a Moyes fan after his last couple of games’? Bloody hell, you should have tried living through the 70s, 80s (middle bit excepted) and 90s. We just made our first semi-final since 1995, first run in Europe since 1985. These things don’t come around too often. Either get some perspective or start drinking heavily, it’s the only way you’ll survive.
Mick simo
56   Posted 14/01/2008 at 23:03:04

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Just seen that Alan, fucking spot on Wenger is my hero
Tony Hall
57   Posted 14/01/2008 at 23:05:22

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Listen lads you have got to have a look at the post ’good old whinger’ it is things legends are made of, fucking get in there Arsene Wenger
Tony Marsh
58   Posted 14/01/2008 at 23:18:16

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Kenny Jones, you have got me mixed up with someone else, mate. Believe me, my name is Tony Marsh. For all you lot out there who think I am moaning or feeling sorry for myself, then wrong again. I am laughing about all this and can never feel threatened or worried by postings on an internet site. I am laughing at the way some of us will never allow yourselves to admit Moyes cocks up in big games, for fear of not being seen as loyal.

As for those who try to tell me Moyes is the best out there, answer me this. What the fuck did David Moyes ever win in his career? He couldn't even get Preston promoted via the play-offs, yet other managers like Paul Jewell and Steve Bruce can do it time and time again. Steve Coppell even got the mighty Reading up and kept them there.

So please come back when Darling Dave has a notch on his bed post.

Art Greeth
59   Posted 14/01/2008 at 23:50:02

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Not moaning or feeling sorry for yourself? Read your own original article, Tony. Full of indignation that other posters dare to challenge you, full of hypocrisy demanding YOUR right to have an opinion, but questioning the right of others to express their’s.

It is not a matter of blind, unquestioning "loyalty to Moyes". It is not a question that some "never allow themselves to admit that Moyes cocks up". What I see is loyalty to the club - not necessarily individuals - by many who are willing to defend it against your vitriolic, hate-filled tirades.

Even your latest post is pitiful. Moyes is in the vast majority of current managers who have never won anything in their career. your counter examples - Jewell, Bruce and Coppell - their ’success’ is limited to the Championship, but like Moyes they HAVE had success in managing smaller clubs on tight budgets. And I admire and respect them for that.

But under Moyes, for the first time in 20 years, there is an awakening of genuine hope and optimism that we CAN start realistically challenging and winning trophies at EFC again. I believe it. You don’t. And that makes me a ’fool’, a ’sheep’ ...?

So carry on, Tony. Continue to malign Moyes and other ’employees’ of EFC. Me? I’m proud David Moyes is our manager. I’m proud of his part in awakening our sleeping giant. And - this will really choke you - I am proud that Bill Kenwright has shown the vision and stauchness to stick with his manager, even in difficult times.
Simon Hughes
60   Posted 15/01/2008 at 00:09:32

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Tony, no one accused you of being disloyal or being threatened. That?s because no one on here has threatened you. We just disagree with you.

By your logic Steve Bruce is a better manager than Moyes? Check yourself in and come back when you?re in recovery.
Stuart Reid
61   Posted 15/01/2008 at 00:13:41

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Many people criticise Moyes on this site and it is accepted because they do it in a reasonable fashion - unlike Tony they do not totally overreact with unnecessarily vitriolic comments.

Whatever you think of anybody’s professional abilities there is no need to make it personal.

As for Moyes’ quality as a manager, in the past I was often critical of him, particularly our style of play which has sometimes been woeful and literally unwatchable. However, now that we have the players for the job our team plays very attractive football. The best way to judge him is by looking at our squad now and four years ago.

Is it not nice to see names like Arteta, Pienaar, Cahill, Yakubu instead of Watson, Gemmill, Campbell? Is it not nice that we are now linked to top players like Van Buyten, Arshavin, Diarra etc?
Dick Fearon
62   Posted 15/01/2008 at 02:13:49

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All this talk about rusty stanley knives slicing off balls and dark alleys! Crikey! I’m outa here.
Andy Crossen
63   Posted 15/01/2008 at 02:23:45

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I have read the recent TM emails and I find it interesting that many of the responses both in agreemment with TM and not, comment on the point that it is the tone and language that is the issue as much the points TM expresses. In his responses, TM does not address this point to any signifcant degree as far as I can see.

The guy loses any credIbility with me on that point alone. Debate as I understand it consists of the exchange of opinions with each speaker (poster) addressing and attempting to refute the points made against the argument by the previos speaker (poster) and sometimes having to concede on a good point made. I would suggest that the best response would be to ignore his tirades and personal abuse.

Peter Bourke
64   Posted 15/01/2008 at 04:04:57

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TM. What did DM ever win in his career?
His managerial career is in its infancy and I?m sure he will win plenty by the time his managing days are over. There's no other manager in the league I would rather have than DM and I?m sure there's plenty of clubs that would love to have him as well.
I don?t know why you think he totally fucked up in the Chelsea game, as many posters have pointed out we were unlucky to lose to an own goal by JL. Should JL be demoted to the reserves for this?? Please let us know what decisions you would have made during the Chelsea game that would have changed the result. And don?t just say I would have gone all out for the win as they only had 10 players. Actual sense please. Numerous posters have asked for your wisdom on this but to date I don?t recall a response.
Fine to criticise but please let us know what you would have done differently so we can all learn from your expertise as a football manager.
Paul McCann
65   Posted 15/01/2008 at 07:09:13

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Tony, I nearly can’t be bothered, but...

As pointed out by many above, Moyes is not beyond critcism, and makes many mistakes for which he is rightly criticised on this site. What gets me, and a few others, it the vitriolic nature of your posts.

You said above about Moyes that ’I know he is going nowhere so I don’t ask for him to be removed’. I don’t really understand this. Why not? I asked after you last post whether you would actually call for Moyes? head? Maybe I should have put this another way. If you were in Kenwrights possition [i.e. with the power to do so] would you sack Moyes? I don’t know whether you would or not. I personally could think of nothing worse.

Your comparison with Stein is an interesting one, and I agree that Moyes achevements cannot be compared with that of Stein [instant trophies and European Cup win just over two years into reign]. It might just be that Moyes’ early reign at the club can be compared with Shankley’s [taking over at a club in dissaray, first trophy after five years [hopefully!], if you don’t count the second division championship]. I’m not saying go out and order the gates, but it might give you food for thought.
James Power
66   Posted 15/01/2008 at 08:13:58

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Tony - very good post in my opinion. I have not read the responses as I have little time, however, taken alone and on its merits you are dead right. The mentality you refer to is seen every Saturday night (if you get out less and less like I do!) on programmes such as X-Factor and Stricly Come Dancing (the sort of rubbish that Mrs P loves). If you voice a critical opinion the crowd all boo and hiss as their supposed entertainers are being appraised by the judges. It appears that for some, the same applies here, voice your opinion but only if it matches everyone elses. I like the fact that we all get a say and while I don?t agree with everything you say, I don?t think you are an arse for saying it.
Pete Scofield
67   Posted 15/01/2008 at 08:06:57

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Problem is Tony that you rather like the act of writing. It feeds your ego. You love the attention. Your style is hyperbolic. Hence many of the reactions to your rants are likewise filled with hyperbole. A little less style & more substance?? But then that’s not you. And long may that remain
Peter Corcoran
68   Posted 15/01/2008 at 07:37:06

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Standards never improve unless we complain when necessary! We must complain to improve but consider the way you complain. The best EFC manager ever had his critics. Think of the vitriol addressed to Howard before we turned the corner. How far away was he from walking away from us?

I was the front of the queue in whingeing about Moyes after the Spurs debacle, I wanted him sacked then but he has improved - was it due to the backlash from the fans after that game, who knows. I am please DM eas not sacked then but I will be back in there whingeing if he falls below the standards we demand.

But give credit where it’s due, we have been playing some really great football and had some excellent European results when there was a fair number of us who doubted that we would progress, but we did it withstyle.

Yes we could have gone gung ho against a beatable Chelsea side - but we could also have been thrashed by playing that way. Think of the Arsenal game and how easy it was for such a good team to slaughter us - don’t fool yourself into thinking that Chelsea are not a good team.

What makes anyone think that Chelsea are less beatable when we play them at Goodison Park than they were on their home turf?

This is for Tony Marsh: what will make you happy given the reality of our current financial status - be realistic in your response?
Steve Templeton
69   Posted 15/01/2008 at 09:17:57

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So that’s it then - you would be happier with Steve Bruce as manager instead of David Moyes.

I rest my case.
Bruce Wayne
70   Posted 15/01/2008 at 09:54:15

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Mr Marsh, I think you are a coward for sitting behind your computer screen critisizing all and sundry. Get out and do your coaching badges and show us all how its done. Or do you have no bottle, leadership or class either?

Your role here is clearly to provoke a reaction with your constant rhetoric but it is frankly dragging the previously good name of ToffeeWeb into the mud. I’ve been coming to TW pretty for a good ten years and in that time, we’ve never had it so good as supporters, yet the constant moaning and sniping from you and others on this site is bordering on scandalous.

If the owners of ToffeeWeb believe this controversy mongering is proving beneficial to their site then it’s perhaps worth noting that where once the site stood alone as not only the best Everton fan site but arguably the best fan site in England, it is now only third in popularity behind Kipper and NSNO. Please, please, please ditch this tabloid clown and restore the site to the credible position it once held in the Everton community.
Paul Lenehjan
71   Posted 15/01/2008 at 09:48:01

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Good man Tony! you have sorted us out. If we had Steve Bruce managing at chelsea we would have won. Im starting a new campaign at Goodison to get Steve Bruce in!
Art Greeth
72   Posted 15/01/2008 at 09:44:00

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James Power? interesting analogy you make comparing Tony to popular media ? interesting, but flawed.

Being a connoisseur of Saturday night entertainment and ?reality TV? you can perhaps acknowledge that some of the judges on such panels ? I offer Simon Cowell as an example ? are as much a contrivance of the ?spectacle? as the ?show? itself. He is now turning a very pretty penny from playing the pantomime villain from his franchised show ?Pop Idol?. Such judges are selected and encouraged by the show?s producers to be controversial, insulting even, to improve the all-important ratings.

Now if you want to elevate Tony to that status, that?s fine. But this is where the analogy unravels somewhat. The likes of Simon Cowell have long experience and have had to make hard decisions in the real world of their chosen field. They have earnt the right to offer the opinions they do.

Tony Marsh ? indeed ANYONE who posts on this website ? is just another Joe, another member of that booing, hissing or cheering, applauding audience. He and others are NOT the specialist judges paid to make judgements on whoever and whatever.

The issue is NOT that Tony does not conform to a vaporous majority opinion on ToffeeWeb. He can?t. Nobody can, because? there isn?t one. There are almost as many diverse opinions as there are posters.

The issue is NOT that Tony has no right to express his opinion. He should. He does. That should continue.

The issue for me is simply that? he talks crap. And he talks crap that provokes responses. Now for some that may be responses of support (dwindling more and more, I note?), and for others responses of ridicule, outrage, pity and real engagement with his points. And as someone who regularly engages with Tony?s core statements, I can assure you that Tony NEVER offers a counter-argument much beyond ?youse a big girl?s blouse ? get yer head outta yer arse!? So? his credibility to defend and support his ?arguments? is totally undermined by... himself.

For me the beauty of Internet forums such as this is that they are both democratic and anarchic at the same time. Yeah ? post what you like. But then? be prepared for ALL and ANY manner of response. And if your ego cannot take whatever comes your way ? be it plaudits or criticisms ? then? you only have yourself to blame.

And that, James, is another topic of discussion in today?s society: individual?s taking responsibility for their own words and actions.
Ron Daulby
73   Posted 15/01/2008 at 10:20:05

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If this has been said earlier in the thread then I apologise. I used to watch Countdown as well, Chris Tyagatha is obviously using a pen name of Agatha Christy!
James Corbett
74   Posted 15/01/2008 at 11:33:38

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Tony, your lack of self-awareness is staggering. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion; but to do so in such a bitter, personalised way - as you do each time that something doesn?t go entirely Everton?s way - is unacceptable. What did you say after the Chelsea game? Some rant about Moyes having ?no class? (even though he is the man who has restored dignity to the club and fans) purely on account of us conceding a late, freakish goal.

Indeed you come across as entirely unpleasant individual. A few months ago someone enquired on the bulletin board, asking about family restaurants near Goodison: I recall you not so much countering my suggestion, but stating I was talking ?a load of crap? and ?didn?t know what I was talking about?, purely because you didn?t agree. If this is how you interact with people on even the most mundane of questions, little wonder you are the way you are on more fundamental issues like football. But jesus, what an unplesant little man you seem.

You don?t deserve Everton and you don?t deserve to share in the successes that many of us believe David Moyes will achieve. If you must vent your spleen, try and do so in a way that you would like to be spoken to yourself; and if people don?t afford you any deference, don?t come bleating on here and don?t be surprised - as you really don?t deserve any modicum of respect.
Jay Campbell
75   Posted 15/01/2008 at 11:57:07

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Tony god forbid mate if you slag Moyes on here. All the mob who’ve been watching Everton since 1992 crack up. They’re the same mob that go mad if you slag Kenwright and this Kirkby disaster. You might as well have a debate with a lamp post Tony.
Anthony Newell
76   Posted 15/01/2008 at 12:15:01

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I think the problem on here at times is that it sometimes feels all too a serious - like the defence vs the prosecution (I’ve been guilty of it in the past I’ll admit). There is no need to take someone’s opinion and try to obliterate into a thousand pieces, merely offer an alternative viewpoint, and leave it at that. Lets all get on with the business of savouring Everton’s upturn in fortunes (personally cannot wait for CC second leg) and cast a wry smile in the direction of our neighbours who are seemingly on self-destruct mode
chris keightley
77   Posted 15/01/2008 at 12:38:53

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Jay i agree maybe Tony should speek to a lamp post they might be on the same wave lengh !!
Paul Lenehan
78   Posted 15/01/2008 at 12:42:11

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Good point Anthony. I can’t wait for next Wednesday neither!
Lee Spargo
79   Posted 15/01/2008 at 12:39:45

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You kind of contradict yourself here Tony.

You are certainly free to have your say, as you often do, but so are those who respond to your posts. If they think you’re talking bollocks, then they will tell you. End of.

If you dont like that then, to quote your good-self ’Tough Titties’.
Michael Shields
80   Posted 15/01/2008 at 12:37:48

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Ohhhh Tony Marsh how wide is your arse !?
Jay Campbell
81   Posted 15/01/2008 at 12:50:38

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Chris there is no talking to some people that’s what I meant.

I think TM makes some good and valid points it’s just a shame that the debate consists of people who have been following Everton since the early 90’s.
Lee Spargo
82   Posted 15/01/2008 at 13:03:58

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Jay,

it’s not the fault of the younger blues that we have been predominantly shit since the early 90’s. Are you sayig that they shouldn’t have their say? I thought that was what Tony Marsh main point was - everbody is entitled to their say.
Terry Maddock
83   Posted 15/01/2008 at 12:52:20

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Jay campbell:
He may as well have a debate with a lamp post...simply because when his"points of debate" are challenged..Tony is unable to defend them..he simply insults thise who disagree....EG Tony would say "Moyes is fucking useless, completly clueless and a waste of space".. I would retort " we are level on points for a champions league place and more than half the games have been played,we are in a cup semi final for the 1st time in 13 years,we have just topped our UEFA cup group with a 100% record, we have the stromgest , youngest squad,playing the most entertaining football in years, hardly usleless,clueless or a waste of space"?

To this Tony would reply(if at all)..Fucking moyes apologists, your talking out your arse, you dont know what your on about ,knobhead..!!

It will of course one day be the case that only a lamp post will bother to listen to him.
Jay Campbell
84   Posted 15/01/2008 at 13:11:27

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Lee yes they’re allowed their say but some don’t entertain anybody else’s opinion because it’s in conflict with theirs.
Jay Campbell
85   Posted 15/01/2008 at 13:14:12

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Terry Maddock we can all go a bit over the top in our critism can’t we?? I’ve even been guilty of that mself. Only Everton can get ya like that mate that’s all can put it down to.
Harry Dean
86   Posted 15/01/2008 at 12:20:17

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It shows how little support your opinion has Tony, when your two editior mates haven?t even chipped in with their little supportive blue box comments.

You?ve lost Tony, because you banked on Everton and Moyes losing. They haven?t. Now you?re floundering for a purpose on Toffeeweb.

When things weren?t so great, you could lord it over all negative opinions regarding Moyes. Now you just sound stupid.

On a happier note, I took a rednose and his son to the City match on Saturday, with my little bluenose. It was the little shite's first game.

At halftime the rednose dad turned to me and said
"there?s something different about being at an Everton match compared with a Liverpool match. The people come across as more real. The crowd are a little bit more passionate. Can I come again with you and your lad?"

There you go. Not scientific, but proof things are rosy.

The little rednose (with a bit more work, bluenose) even brought an Everton Bart Simpson badge from the stall outside the ground. One more convert to the people?s club and the Moyes vision.

It was a great atmosphere on Saturday. The singing of ?Grand Old Team? at the end was full and raucous. All the kids around me in the Family Enclosure left with big smiles on their faces and the Toffeeshop was rammed full of spending bluenoses.

Tony, you will get your way in the end. Nothing can last forever. Moyes will leave at a time of his own choosing or will be asked to leave. It?s always the way. But until then return to that miserable little hole you crawled out of and await the joyous news of Moyesies departure.
Art Greeth
87   Posted 15/01/2008 at 13:28:57

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Jay wrote: "yes they?re allowed their say but some don?t entertain anybody else?s opinion because it?s in conflict with theirs".

A bit like... no... wait! wait! The name’ll come to me in a moment...
Paul McCann
88   Posted 15/01/2008 at 13:27:07

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Jay Campbell,

I don’t really get your point about when people started supporting the club, since for the vast majority this is simply an accident of birth. I’ve been going for twenty years [again, an accident of birth], and this is the best side I’ve seen since Kendall’s side fell apart under Harvey.

I get pissed off with Moyes as well as Tony and others [Spurs at home last season, as mentioned above, being a particular lowlight], and we all have the right to criticise. But all I’m asking for is a bit of perspective, which seems to be in very short supply in some quarters.
Paul Lenehan
89   Posted 15/01/2008 at 13:58:43

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Jay, some people can’t help what age they, but they are still entitled to voice their opinion just as Tony is. If you read through this post and the post from last week you will find the majority did not take exception to someone criticising Moyes, what we took exception to was the manner of the personal insults and assaults on Moyes’s character which in my view had little to do with football.
Harry Dean
90   Posted 15/01/2008 at 14:15:00

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Tony,
as for us all looking over our shoulders in fear of bumping into you, I saw you in the Winslow before the game on saturday.
The little fat bald fella with jam jar glasses and the protruding wet bottom lip, that you constantly had to lick the saliva off.
The only thing that should should be trembling are the bins outside the chippy.
Jay Campbell
91   Posted 15/01/2008 at 14:17:34

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The two Pauls, agreed. I know certain people can?t help when they are born that goes without saying but some (not all) make comparison?s with Moyes?s record to those who have been managers since the downturn of club in the early 90s which on the whole has been a terrible time in the club?s history. Joe Royle has won more than Moyes. Some fan?s nowadays seem to think that finishing 4th is a sucess I don?t.
Paul Jones
92   Posted 15/01/2008 at 16:24:08

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This is not having a go at Moyes, I like David Moyes and I think he has done good work at Everton over the last five years. Being equal on points with Liverpool at this stage of the season represents good progress.

However I do agree with Tony Marsh's opinion on the Chelsea game. I felt Chelsea were there for the taking after they went a man down. They had shown they were happy for a draw by taking a striker off and replacing him with a right back. I felt we should have been more positive and pushed Chelsea up the pitch instead of us defedning so deep and letting Chelsea have the initiative.

I was upset afterwards with our lack of ambition in this game. David Moyes definately got this one wrong, and possibly cost us taking a good result into the second leg. However, Moyes has done a good job and I trust he will continue to take us forward. we just need to be more positive sometimes and not settle for mediocre results when we can achieve better.

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