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Derby County ? Stay behind ? Peaceful protest.

By Paul Lally :  31/03/2008 :  Comments (85) :

No mention so far of the LFC fans unfurling a banner before the game: ?The city is now ours,? or the singing during the game about Kirkby.

I hope BK/KW where in the main stand.

Coming from a ¾ red family from the Tuebrook, West Derby area of Liverpool, I know that my cousins, who where in the Kop on Sunday, would have been singing ?

?Fuck off to Kirkby, the city?s now ours.?

Why? I have had the stadium debate so many times with the blue and red side of my family and know that none of them want Everton to move. The reds do know theirs and our histories, but when they put their ruthless heads on, they also know, more so than some Everton supporters it seems, that to relinquish the city to them ensures one club, one city, regardless of so-called boundaries.

Despite numerous articles on ground sharing or re-developing Goodison, from across all the EFC forums, I believe they made the most passionate plea on our (my) behalf for not going to Kirkby.

?Fuck off to Kirkby, the city?s now ours.?

I call upon every Everton supporter attending the home match against Derby County, who does not want to move to Kirkby, to stay behind after the final whistle for approx. 30 minutes.

Whatever section of the ground you are in, once the final whistle has been blown and the players have left the pitch, make your way to the middle of your stand. This will bring everyone together in each stand and stop the stewards (a lot of whom will be sympathetic), trying to force people out.

Remember Rooney?s return when the stewards forced everyone to take down the banners just before kick off? I wrote to Ian Ross as I felt it was a disgrace that the supporters and life blood of the club could not vent their frustration through banners ? none of which were obscene or offensive i.e. ?Could have been a God, chose to be a devil.?

Reason given for heavy handed stewards by Mr. Ross; ?The flags would have covered up important advertising around the ground.? Unbelievable.

Therefore please move to the middle.

It will ensure we have people together in every section not dotted about.

It is then up to you what you wish to do. Sing songs, unfurl banners or simply sit in silence.

Oldest club in the city and we are letting LFC walk all over us.

It is time for the supporters who do not want to move to Kirkby to stand up and be counted.

The club says they have a so-called mandate from fans but have they? I did not even receive my ballot paper.

It is a chance to show the board the strength and passion a lot of our supporters feel against the move to Kirkby and force the issue firmly into the public eye, with a peaceful protest.

This is the most important decision in Everton?s history and will be for 100+ years. I do not think it is a lot to ask of my fellow Evertonians who do not wish to move to Kirkby but DO wish to explore all other options, to make themselves heard.

I will be making my way to the middle of the Park End, as soon as I can, after the final whistle.

Hopefully, I will see thousands of you doing the same thing in each and every stand in Goodison Park.

30 minutes of our lives is all it may take to force the board into open and honest discussions about the options open to us not just,? We?re going.?

Considering the passion surrounding the stadium debate I hope I will not be sitting in the Park End on my own, like a lemon, singing ?

?We shall not; we shall not be moved,

We shall not; we shall not be moved,

Just like a team who wants to stay at Goodison Park, (minimum explore other options),

We shall not be moved.?

See you there.

Paul Lally

You may think your actions are meaningless and that they won't help, but that is no excuse, you must still act. -- Mohandas Gandhi

Reader Comments

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Mark Cassin
1   Posted 01/04/2008 at 05:24:41

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Are you for real?

Hmmm how to unsettle the manager ? who hasn't yet signed a new contract... and the players???

I know, let's have a protest. Oh dear oh dear oh dear.
Derek Thomas
2   Posted 01/04/2008 at 05:59:22

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Mark Cassin:

Just what are you against? Paul’s right to protest or what he is protesting about.

It’s the old story, IF YOU DON’T ASK YOU WON’T EVER GET.

’They’ mightn’t listen, but thats another story.

I smell a yes voter

Ciaran Duff
3   Posted 01/04/2008 at 06:24:39

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Wasn’t there a vote on this earlier in the season? Has something changed?
Anthony Horabin
4   Posted 01/04/2008 at 07:10:53

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Looks like I will be leaving early then.
Ajamu Mutumwa
5   Posted 01/04/2008 at 07:48:12

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There was already a vote to continue to negotiate to move to Kirkby. I believe the yes vote won.

There will be a vote in Kirkby which could well finally decide the issue. I think that this will have more of an impact on Kirkby than such a protest.

Mind you, given the last KEIOC protest, it could be fun as the three people left in the ground huddle around each other for warmth.
Paul Gladwell
6   Posted 01/04/2008 at 07:49:38

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There was an article in the Mirror yesterday about this, it said Billybull must of been squirming in his seat and rightly so, by hey we should not be bothered about them taking the piss, well so sorry I do and it cuts me up, we dont have much to throw back at them , but now what we do have is now being taken from us too ,thanks Bill for that.
Tony Horne
7   Posted 01/04/2008 at 08:01:30

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They probably sang "the city’s now ours" all the way home too. That stretch of the M6 between Runcorn and and Stoke probably seemed to fly by..........
Chris Lumb
8   Posted 01/04/2008 at 09:10:27

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I did not vote for the current government in the UK, but yet I apreciate that more people in the UK wanted Labour rather than anybody else. Thus I accept the decision. There was a vote, it was a yes to kirkby and thus please don?t whinge when it did not turn out the way you wanted. Most people appreciate that we need a bigger and newer ground to go forward. Mid table to lower table achievements in the long term will occur if we do not move.
Chris Briddon
9   Posted 01/04/2008 at 09:12:51

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Oh no, Liverpool supporters had a banner. quick lets all decide to stay where we are.

Surely that?s makes you look even more pathetic if ONE banner at Anfield can make your decisions for you.

The move is a decision for EVerton FC and Everton FC alone, and shouldn?t be influenced by a few whitty Scandinavians sat in the kop.
John Hughes
10   Posted 01/04/2008 at 09:31:48

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Lets Roll over and die then shall we. Fucking bunch of fuckwits.

This is our City. Kirkby is a shit hole. No apologies because it IS!

I’ll ask you this. Would you move your home to Kirkby if you were offered a free house? What if you were told that it will provide space for you to build your new house for free. Oh a couple of months later they tell you that they forgot to mention though that you have to pay for it to be built. Then you have to build the roads so you can get to it, then you have to get the water and gas and electric connected, then you have to paint it and then you have to furnish it all by yourself. All of a sudden this free house is costing £100,000 and then the council tell you that their building an industrial estate on the outskirts and are planning to use the roads you have paid for to get there.

Would you still want to move to Kirkby?

Would you fuck, so why is it different for Everton. Why are you all so stuck up that "we had a vote and it was yes" Well aren’t people entitled to change their minds? Yes they fucking are.

If you were told you were getting that free house, then drip fed all the shit that goes around it and all of a sudden your paying a hundred grand wouldn’t you be a little pissed off? Yes you would. So what’s the difference with Everton and moving Stadium? Are you not pissed off that you were lied to? Are you not Pissed off that the world class stadium is now a "nice" stadium? If not WHY NOT? Do you still believe you will be getting a world class stadium because that’s what the ballot documentation said? Well wake up, They’ve changed their minds and now we are getting a "nice" stadium instead. Do you still believe that we will get this Stadium for £15m like it said in the ballot paper? Well we’re not it’s likely to cost in excess of £100m.
Why? Because the price of Steel has gone through the roof cos china want the olympics. There is also competition from the English Olympic games commitee because they need loads of fucking steel to build homes, race tracks, new stadiums and arena’s swimming baths and whilst all of this is happening all the labour that goes with it becomes more expensive because there isn’t enough of it to go round.

I apologise for calling anyone a fuckwit, you are entitled to your opinion. Mine is that if I had the choice between Goodison Park as it is now and a "nice" stadium with a hundred Million Debt what would I rather have? Goodison, 100m times over. I would rather be in the city winding the redshite up with banner saying that we were the cities first club and your our bastard son. I would rather Everton put that hundred million for the stadium into the team. Pack Goodison Park out Every fucking week with the best players we can buy. Stuffing right down the noses of the redshite that we are here to stay and we are the number one team in this city. This is Liverpool and ITS BLUE. The best things come to those who wait. "nice" things come to those who don’t.
David Collins
11   Posted 01/04/2008 at 10:09:49

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Why do people want to go to Kirkby? Why? It will kill the club, no if no buts we?ll be finished as a footballing force condemned to die a slow death in a small provincial town which has no emotional ties with the club whatsoever.
Ciaran Duff
12   Posted 01/04/2008 at 10:34:09

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There’s been a lot of stuff flying around about how we were lied to and the stadium will now cost us 100m etc. Can someone produce some hard info on this?
Alan Codd
13   Posted 01/04/2008 at 10:45:12

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What city are they reffering to?
Brann, Bangledesh, Copenhagen, Dubai????????
Brian Donnelly
14   Posted 01/04/2008 at 10:43:44

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Paul,
I am complete agreement with your objectives. However, if you are going to organise some sort of demonstration, it needs to be advertised in the papers (eg post & echo). I have no intention of staying behind after the match unless I believe we can get substantial numbers to do the same.

Before this article, I have seen no mention of this demonstration except in the response to another article. It?ll just lead to a poor turnout with the ?yes? brigade sheep - let?s not let facts get in the way of spin (?best transport policy of any ground??) ? gloating about the lack of numbers.

Personally I am not that bothered about Kirkby being outside the Liverpool boundary, I am more concerned with how far from the centre it is. If Kirkby was to be part of Liverpool tomorrow it wouldn?t make any difference ? it is still TOO FAR OUT.
Tony Waverleas
15   Posted 01/04/2008 at 10:43:02

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Oh dear
The world’s most knowledgeable fans sing a song and wave a banner and I’m supposed to be worried?
The day I start to care about anything that shower of half-wits says or does I’ll let you know.
But I guarantee you’ll have a long wait.
James Marshall
16   Posted 01/04/2008 at 10:56:47

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I was always in the ?yes? camp re the Kirkby move, but as time's gone by I?ve changed my way of thinking on this one - like Brian I dont care about whether Kirkby is inside or outside the ?city? itself, but the point is how far out it is. I?ve been to the Madjeski stadium in Reading and getting to it isn't too bad, but getting out is an absolute nightmare - this alone makes it a bad idea.

Last time we played there, the queue for the buses away from the ground were about a mile long, it was pissing with rain and we?d just lost 1-0; it was bloody miserable and the only way we got out of there quickly was by waving a tenner at passing cars, one of which happily stopped and 10 quid got us a lift into town - I really don't fancy doing shit like that every week.

I quite fancy the idea of having Anfield back..... it's ours anyway.
Rob Bentham
17   Posted 01/04/2008 at 11:16:50

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Ciaran
I posted this a little while ago when the planning application was revealed
And now from Kirkby ?.

At last some stated figures to play with

Planning Statement (Document 4)
6.7 The cost of the proposed new stadium is in the region of £130m at September 2007 prices, including basic facilities, required to achieve appropriate operating licences.

6.8 The only likely source of funding the Club would be able to generate in the short term would be a combination of naming rights and sponsorship deals relating to elements of the fit out along with debt. Early discussions that the club has had with some interested parties suggest that naming rights and sponsorship could potentially raise a significant contribution towards the costs of the new stadium. This would leave a shortfall of approximately £55m.

Proposed Stadium for Everton Football Club (Document 13)
8.9 Basic fit out would cost anywhere between £5 and £15m. A more extensive fit out would costs considerable more, anywhere between £16m and £40m.

Planning Statement (Document 4)
6.9 Up to £50m - £55m of the shortfall is met from the proposed developments south of Cherryfield Drive through the increase in the value of the land that would occur once planning permission has been granted for the enabling developments (Tesco is buying the land at current use value).

6.10 This funding package guarantees that a combination of naming rights and sponsorship deals plus a small increase in debt along with enabling development would enable the mid-level stadium to be delivered.


This breaks down like this:
Total cost of stadium £130,000,000
Naming and shirts £75,000,000 (Figure for the build last quoted by KW)
Land £55,000,000 (Land partially swapped with KMBC and leased back to EFC)

The £55m shortfall might be said to be fictional as it is merely what the land will be worth. They call it enabling development. It makes it look like Tesco are giving us this money when they are not, they appear to be giving it?s value to KMBC.

Compare the figure for the naming rights and sponsorship deal. It is almost identical to Arsenal?s deal which breaks down like this

Arsenal are scheduled to receive £72m (average £9m per year) 2004-2012
£18m (average £2.25m per year) 2012-2020.

From 2006-2014 this includes £5m per year (£40m) for Arsenal?s shirt sponsorship.
That?s £50m for the naming and £40m for the sponsorship. The biggest such deal in UK history and one of the biggest in the world.

If I?ve read all of this correctly this means we will be getting a mid-level stadium for £75m which we will need to take a loan secured against the joint sponsorship deal. Or more likely a mortgage paid using the annual sponsor money, bearing in mind that on top of the £130m (£75m) there will be £5m to £40m for the fit out. That means a mortgage for between £80m and £115m.

?And now from Kirkby the quiz of the week?
Deal of the Century ???
Ron Leith
18   Posted 01/04/2008 at 11:26:31

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I want to stay behind and protest that LCC is planning to refuse planning permission for housing on Bellefield that would help EFC to pay for a new stadium. I want to know why they have allowed LFC to build on Stanley Park and almost double their capacity. I want to know why when somebody spits and punches Phil Neville it is in the minds of the police the same as chanting at Stephen Gerrard. I want to know why EFC always get the rough end of referees decisions. Just think we should be actually ahead of Liverpool on points if it were not for shit decisions. With all the crap thats up against this club going forward we then get a so called supporter wanting to add his own self generated shit.
Let's get behind our TEAM please.
Damian Wilde
19   Posted 01/04/2008 at 11:26:22

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David Collins, that is your opinion, not fact. Do you also know when the world will end?

John Hughes, you are being offensive. Just because I won’t stay behind for some protest which will probably unsettle the club/team, does not mean I am a fuckwit. Also I am not stuck up. No problems with you voicing your opinion, but it might get more respect if done in a calmer and less aggressive way.
danny naylor
20   Posted 01/04/2008 at 11:43:56

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I was almost about to change my mind after seeing the RS fan ridiculing the move to Kirkby, giving the fuel to their fire. But then you read the stuff their fans we’re getting up to during the game,the abuse given to Neville and Lescott, and it got me thinking....

Taking on board what they say makes them win. Their fans have got up to some terrible stuff for years (robbing familys of tickets, murder etc), and, sorry to say this, but getting away and having our own place is worth it. They’re jealous because they spend and spend and are getting nowhere near the top 3.

Everton, in the wider world, is always overshadowed by Liverpool, be it in name or gloss and media. But if the move pushes us further, progesses the club, I’d bite the bullet.

We dont want to end up protesting over a chairmen who spend money to make the club better, protest over a manager who is spending millions and take the club back. We dont want to wait years to confirm a move 1 mile down the road that will cost 700million and rising. We dont want to be like the RS. We want to do it our way, like we’ve always done.

We even have a song saying we dont care what they say!!!!

John Maxwell
21   Posted 01/04/2008 at 12:31:29

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Paul, you are just falling for the wind-up..

Have a backbone and give them more back.

You are playing into their hands, exactly what they want to happen.

Should you really be bothered what they sing.. what difference should it make to you ?
Lee Spargo
22   Posted 01/04/2008 at 12:44:05

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Seems to me that all the no voters and the KEIOC brigade are bothered about is the stick from the redshite. Grow up boys, we’re better than that.
Danny Naylor
23   Posted 01/04/2008 at 12:58:33

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The surrounding borough of Goodison is as much a shit hole as Kirkby.

Would I move into a free house? Yeah, if my house was made of wood, barely passing health and safety, not making enough money that a new, bigger stadium would and that has a 100 million spent on redeveloping the area would.

The biggest problem for people is not being in the city. You dont see the RS complaining about their move even though they?re smashing a ground they?ve played at for decades, smashing history etc. People knew that Kirkby was out of the city but still voted for yes, then facts and figures (official or not) come out and its another reason based on that to change peoples mind.

If Kenwright et all would stay in the city they would, you can see in interviews the idea breaks his heart, but sees this is the best possible option to move forward that will work. These are business people, when did a ground move bankcrupt a club or sent them down? The amount of money pumped into it will create very little errror in the club reaching targets set and making money.

The idea of being out the city kills fans more than anything and backing up this are is "new info" and facts (again official or not) reinforces the negatives they have about the move.

Nobody knows what happens in the boardroom. Nobody knows if they they exhausted every possible descision/option. But to dismiss it and say they didnt go through the options with the money at stake is rather silly.
John Nelson
24   Posted 01/04/2008 at 13:07:06

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Just because a grang of tramps sang that silly shildish song, you reckon we shouldn’t move? Get a fucking grip.

Again, as II have said so many times before, what alternative is there to Kirkby?

And another thing, the way some people go on about Kirkby, people would be led to believe it’s fucking miles away in Warrington or somewhere.

Again, get a fucking grip. The Kirkby ground move will be spot on for the club, for the fans and everyone else involved. We will prosper from this.

COYB.
Gary Williams
25   Posted 01/04/2008 at 12:07:28

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I understand the sentiment but I cannot see any fan led protest changing the boards mind at this stage.

So whilst I appluad you I wil do so from the pub.

The massively changed Economic climate already means the ground may well be out of reach.

I voted no and stand by that as long term I personally think moving away from the City Centre could be our downfall.

I understand why people voted yes, but I do think since the vote - the deal that was voted on has changed massively due in some aspects to Wyness?s dodgy sums and the real figures now emerging and also due to the credit crunch and steel issues already raised.

If it comes off I will still go to the match, I grew up in Kirkby my parents still live there

Contrary to some of the comments Kirkby is not shit, it is as much part of this City as Speke, Bell Vale and all the other places on the fringes of the City.

But it is also not i my opinion the best place for a new ground.




I must admit the idea of buying a season ticket becomes less attracitve when the ground is likley to be less than full for most games.

I have had a season ticket for over 20 years but Kirkby may just change my match going ways I think I am not alone in that.

I do not see another 20,000 fans appearing just because the ground has better bogs and no posts.

So I anticapte little problem in getting a ticket.

The planers report back in May and I expect it will get the green light, whether we have the money to proceed may be a different matter.

For the record my parents and other family and friends in Kirkby do not want it and they are all Evertonians.

Lets be honest would you want it on your doorstep.

Gary Williams
Tony Williams
26   Posted 01/04/2008 at 13:43:08

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Absolutely fantastic idea, lets have a protest when the team is going through a shitty spell. That will help raise spirits won’t it.
Paul Lally
27   Posted 01/04/2008 at 12:56:59

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I have never known such apathy in my life over such an important decision.
Saying I have reacted to the Kop chants in a knee jerk reaction is simply not true.
Some of us have grown up in Liverpool surrounded by Reds.
We sing ’We don’t care what the they say,’ but it’s obvious we do - it is part of the rivalry but to push aside the issue of moving out of the city because they sang it amazes me.
In fact die-hard yes voters should pick up the song, change a few words and sing it on Saturday in the Street End if you feel that strongly.
The ’we’re going, that’s it’ brigade need to understand the passion is just as great to not go to Kirkby.
You would think that peoples obvious hatred of anything red would make them stand strong and protest that we are the FIRST team of this city - end of.
I would hate to live in a world where people simply accept what they are given.
You are the ones crying that we should not even listen to what a red fan has to say and then you tell me to grow up !!!!! Just because they may be red does not make them retards.One of my cousins is a season ticket holder in the Annie Road End and has been since we were 14. We have talked football since we were able to speak - banter, taking the mick and yes sometimes we have come to blows but we both understand the importance of keeping both clubs in the city and the wider impications. But as he says if EFC go to Kirkby then it will be the best thing to ever hapen to them as they can really ram home around the world - one club, one city. And with the LFC marketing machine it will not be too long before the world will not care there where two teams in the city - except us of course.
How many times do you want to be shafted by LFC the club ?
If this was LFC being asked to go to Kirkby their supporters, whether you like it or not, would be marching the streets, having banners made, protesting after matches etc etc becuase they seem to understand more than a lot of TW contributers do, that it is their club in their city.
Also the red side of my family cannot believe the lack of action of behalf of Evertonians - they know a lot of them - who do not want to move but who are doing and saying nothing.I know my family and they would be going mental and protesting at every opportunity they could if it was LFC.
But they don’t have to do they. They have got what they want and we are letting them.
It would not surprise me if right now the main singers in the Kop who started the chant have now been told to not sing it again as it might make Evertonians really stand up and protest and that is the last thing a lot of them want.
Coming on here and just getting angry because they are red is not good enough.
As said family and close friends are red and if a march was organised in the city I know some of them would join in.They understand the history, tradition and the fact we are so closely linked historically and geographically.
The others are rubbing their hands in glee at the prospect of them getting Stanley Park while we slink off to Kirkby.
I really do have to question where exactly the people live, who think staging a peaceful protest is wrong.
How any Evertonian can say they do not want an open and honest enquiry into other options is beyond me.
Does the board even know how much opinion is divided ?
A peaceful protest will ensure they do.
Oh and the comment about only 3 people staying behind sums up the apathy.Would that please you ? Does it make you happy the fans are so split over this issue ?
As for unsettling the team how does that work ? A peacful protest by the clubs supporters over the biggest decision in our history ? Who knows what David Moyes and the players feel.
Don’t tell me or other people who want to explore other options to grow up - we are the one’s acting like adults in wanting to have a clear understanding what all the implications are re Kirkby, re-developing Goodison, Walton Hall Park etc.
The roll over and die attitude makes my blood boil.
It is not about who sang ’F**k off to Kirkby, the city’s all ours,’ it is what the words represent.
As said I am a born and bred blue scouser and I for one will not be rail-roaded to Kirkby and will fight all the way to make sure EFC stay in the city.
One final point - How can anyone say that the no voters, the people who did not get a vote and KEIOC are only bothered about what LFC fans say ? That is the worst insult and an absolute joke.
All we want is all options to be explored openly and what is best for Everton FC.
I for one am staying behind and if BK/KW or David Moyes want to come over and ask me why then I will be more than happy to have a discussion with them.
Come on blue boys - We were here first.
You would think by some of the reactions we are advocating setting up barricades and chaining ourselves to the seats.
A peaceful protest not a riot - get a grip.
People power works - it has done for centuries.
Matthew Morgan
28   Posted 01/04/2008 at 14:22:11

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Tony Williams, i wish you would read the article before trying to be funny, he states that the protest would be after the match therefore not affecting the players before or after!
Chris Briddon
29   Posted 01/04/2008 at 14:37:14

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I am sorry to disappoint you all, but the vote has finished. There wasn’t a ’yes, but reserve the right to change my mind later and demand another vote’ option.

You may have voted labour at the last election, and now wish you hadn’t. Well tough that was the decision, there will not be re-vote.

In fact you should consider yourselves fortunate you had a vote at all, as no other club that has mvoed grounds has offered their supporters a say.
The problem is, you have a say, and now you demand more explanations.

It is the board’s job to run the club and ours to support it (hence being called supporters)
Colin Grierson
30   Posted 01/04/2008 at 13:53:41

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I understand how you are feeling Paul, but we really don’t care what the RS say! They have always had delusions of grandure. The city will never be theirs regardless of whether we move to KIRKBY or not. Sadly mate a large portion of the current Everton season ticket holders have a different opinion to us.

I think a move to Kirkby will devastate the club, but it is only my opinion and many others would argue differently and with passion. That is their right. They’re not beauts or fuckwits they’re just IMHO ’wrong’. The board made their decision before the vote and the politics of the situation was always going to be played out in their favour. Que sera.
Dave Lynch
31   Posted 01/04/2008 at 14:52:37

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All you yes voters.
Think about this. 100 million or thereabouts on a new stadium, imagine what the team would be like if that was spent on players.
Imagine us winning the prem after spending that, the money generated from the CL and the prestige from it would attract serious investors.
This board are looking at things arse about tit.
We need a team not a ground.
A ground will not attract investors unless there is something to invest in and promote.
Tony Williams
32   Posted 01/04/2008 at 15:19:23

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Matthew, I did read the post and still think it is a daft idea.

So the players won’t hear about the protest then? if they don’t how on earth do you expect the board to?
Jimmy Royston
33   Posted 01/04/2008 at 14:31:52

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Kenwright should meet the few of you who stay and tell you. " Give me back the money I dragged together plus all the interest I could have received . When I was welcomed by most fans to rescue what was then a totally dying club from Agent Johnson ". Had it continued that way we would now undoubtedly be in the lower leagues just like Leeds or even worse... In other words put your money were your mouth is. The next thing someone will be a suggesting doing what the nutters on the dark side of the park are talking about ? i.e. the impossible in todays financial market " a fans buy out.".... NO CHANCE. I want to stay at a redeveloped Goodison but I can’t put up the money , I want new star players I dont have the money, I would love a new high profile manager, !! but !! I dont have that money either, I am not a multi-millionaire. I presume neither are any of you.. and that is the only way any of us,..you or me ..are going to get what WE want. There has been a vote ! there did NOT HAVE TO BE. Dont throw your rattle out of the pram at the result which I also did not want ( I think we may not get the planning OK anyway) So why not try a more sensible way ?? Support what we have even if its not what you want but others who voted do, or it might just rebound in your face and be gone, to that nice green grass on the other side. Lost forever to faceless wonders you like even less....You don’t need to look very far for the outcome of that....
Paul Lally
34   Posted 01/04/2008 at 14:58:28

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@Anthony Horabin - leave early - no problem - we do live in a democracy last time I checked.
@Ajamu Mutumwa - I take it you would be happy if no-one syated behind - see above.
@Tony Horne - come on you must know the city is full of reds. Playing down the importance of such a decision to move to Kirkby by saying it was a few Scandanavians in the Kop is plain daft.
@Chris Lamb - yes a vote is a vote but nearly a year on would you not expect a government to re-consider the vote based on new information and more people’s opinions ? Times change.
@Chris Briddon/Alan Codd - no Liverpool fans are not all Scandanavians and sorry to burst your bubble but their are thousands of them who live in Liverpool and are decent suporters.
Also it is admirable to have such blind trust in any board let alone ours.
@Kris Roblcopter - give it a rest ! The biggest decision in our history - for future generations when we are dead and gone and you want us to ’ Give it a rest. Go back to sleep.
@John Maxwell - Me get a backbone - I have lived in Liverpool all my life and as said in article surrounded by reds. I can handle the stick my friend just as I could handle the away matches on the ’specials’ in 70’s. Also, I am playing into their hands ? EFC are playing right into their hands without my help. Cannot you not see what the PR machines of LFC,UEFA,Sky etc will do once they have the city to themselves and to make matters worse on Stanley Park.
@Danny Naylor - what have the reds got to complain about ? They have got Stanley Park. This is the same Stanley Park that we played on First before they were even born. Does that alone not annoy you ?
@John Nelson - and ALL
Please see articles by myself, Tom Hughes, Trevor Skempton and Christine Foster - not about 1 song.
Groundshare, re-development, Walton Hall Park.
Articles that include designs, finances, marketing and pros and cons re all options.
We are simply asking for all options to be exhausted before we make any final decisions.
Not a lot to ask but we have been asking for a while now and getting (it seems) no-where.
Would the vote have been the same if their had been other options on the ballot paper for Everton to explore?
The propaganda before and after the vote has been very professional and probably very expensive. At least KEIOC are trying on what can only be assumed is as a small budget.
Sometimes in life you have to make people sit up and take notice just so your voice is heard regardless of the outcome.

To not even try well......................
Ralph Basnett
35   Posted 01/04/2008 at 15:26:09

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Dave,
Didn’t Leeds invest heavily in their team and look where it got them?

100 million on a new stadium is offset against the ground, you cannot keep borrowing on the strength you may succeed on the pitch, we borrow up to the hilt every season as it is and look where we are, embarrassed at Fulham, robbed West Ham and looked less than average against the red shite.

Bricks and mortar has always been a sound investment no matter if its stadia, houses or commercial property. Very few people suceed on skill alone, a huge amount of luck is required and watching Everton week in wek out will tell you we have very little luck.....
Chris Roberts
36   Posted 01/04/2008 at 15:39:24

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Paul it?s good you replied to everyone. That shows some effort but your points and most made above have been made before.

I?d just like to add to the ?at least KEOIC point?. It?s sweet what you say but I would say that they had more to do with 60-40 yes vote than anything the board said. Their / your protest on Saturday will almost certainly drive more people against them. The reason? Most Evertonians are pissed off by their divisive antics and most respect a democratic vote.
Tom Hughes
37   Posted 01/04/2008 at 15:36:00

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People saying we had a vote........

A vote is only valid or meaningful if it presents real options. The ballot paper literature included NO alternatives, openly promoting Kirkby via glossy images as the only option with only doom if we voted NO. Even Mugabe had some competition.

No-one could honestly say that the vote was in anyway balanced or that the club’s pro-move stance throughout the process encouraged anything but one outcome. KEIOC had only a few weeks to put forward a counter campaign despite Tesco having spent over 18 months and endless resources. Bestway were ignored despite equipping themselves with a report by the biggest stadium design company in the world. Despite this, the no-brainer that is Kirkby only received 59:41 vote, with thousands undecided. Wyness said there were no deliverable options because of the probitive costs yet the club’s own feasibility study for redevelopment wasn’t completed till 5 months after they had anounced they had already exhausted all the options. The Walton Hall Park option never even saw the light of day till recently.

We now know the enabling finances will not cover the stadium costs, and we will be expected to find a minimum of £80m. Robert Earl anounced this at the last AGM.
Therefore, the original underpinning premise of "no plan B" due to cost is no longer valid, since if we can find that amount for Kirkby then redevelopment of GP or deposit for the Loop are now by definition deliverable.

Kopites name-calling in itself never bothers me, however I haven’t met ANY red who will be a bit dismayed at our move to Kirkby...... and for good reason!!!
Chris Roberts
38   Posted 01/04/2008 at 16:36:45

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KEOIC had enough time to propose sending footage of Everton hooligans to Knowsley papers and council and make inappropriate and tasteless comparisons, like ones to the dictator Mugabe.

Oh hang on a minute.....

Sorry Tom you may think that?s a light hearted moment but I think comparing fellow fan a chairman Kenwright with mass murderers is just a bit shite really.
Guy Wilkinson
39   Posted 01/04/2008 at 17:01:54

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Don Quixote: Dost not see? A monstrous giant of infamous repute whom I intend to encounter.
Sancho Panza: It’s a windmill.
Don Quixote: A giant. Canst thou not see the four great arms whirling at his back?
Sancho Panza: A giant?
Don Quixote: Exactly
Tom Hughes
40   Posted 01/04/2008 at 16:50:14

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Chris,
Jeez, is this point scoring or what? Stay with the issues..... I notice you make no reference to my main points.

We were given the hardsell on one set of points at the vote....... Now next to none of those still apply. No stadium for "practically nothing" and therefore there must be deliverable options.

Incidentally, I challenge you to find where and when KEIOC actually did any of these things? Regardless of the irrelevance to the future of our club should we be relocated to an out-of-town site

Secondly, I refer only to the constant referral to the vote as a be all and end all, when quite patently votes can be fundamentally flawed, as was this one for the reasons I have stated..... like I said even Mugabe had to face competition in his election. How that is me calling BK a murdering dictator is beyond me!!!
Joe Ludden
41   Posted 01/04/2008 at 16:54:42

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Paul totally agree that we need to protest in some form and a stay behind is not as potentially damaging as a stay away for the on-field side of things. Just think though more time and planning needs to go into this. If people dont know then they wont stay behind and i would hate for a misconception on the quantity of us not wanting to move to Kirkby to develop because people just didnt know there was going to be a protest. Perhaps the second last home fixture v Villa on 27/04/08 instead/as well??

ps. Im not bothering with answering the yes voters on this thread. How many times do the no voters have to answer your same questions. Nothing in life is free - not even multi million pound football stadia. Kirkby will cost £150m according to Robert Earl, AGM, December 2007. This information is in the public domain.
Martin Kulkarni
42   Posted 01/04/2008 at 16:42:45

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Paul Lally,Tom Hughes,John Hughes etc.

Good on you and all power to you.

The rest of you...SHAME ON YOU ALL!!!

Paul mentioned Mohandes K Gandhi at the end of his article.I tell you who you other lot remind me very much of.The kind of ’do nothing’ doormats that made the complete antithesis of Gandhi,that twat Thatcher,the all powerful evil piece of vermin she was and still is,and look at what came out of that in ’97 ’New Labour.!Look at the state of this country after 11 years of that shower,not to mention Iraq!!!
Well,in addition to the kind of apathetic and lawless society we all ’enjoy now’,as a result,we will also be able to preside over the demise and complete irrelevance of what was once one of the great football clubs in the history of the game thanks to the same apathy among our ranks. Cheers!

Do you apologists for unscrupulous, opportunist nomarks that mostly make up the EFC board not realise the implications of this move? Never mind though,because of a thoroughly democratic (NOT) yes vote so Kirby it is.Tremendous!

At least Paul may be one of the few among us who can say he cared and was prepared to try and do something about the whole dubious affair,oh,not to mention having to suffer the insults given to him on this site.Who needs the red scum to do that,when we Evertonians do ther job even better!
Tony Williams
43   Posted 01/04/2008 at 17:29:01

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Get off your soapbox Martin.

What exactly is this silent protest going to achieve? The only people who will take note are the cleaners waiting to get to work in brushing up all our useless betting slips and you lot standing in their way.

It’s Kirkby not Iraq, then again on a Saturday night it’s hard to make a distinction I suppose
Chris Roberts
44   Posted 01/04/2008 at 17:37:00

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You explicitly compared the EFC vote to the recent Zimbabwe election yourself (and I?ve read comparisons with Hitler, Stalin and Saddam from others in the past). Furthermore are you honestly denying that KEOIC considered showing the pictures of the off between EFC and MUFC in Everton valley to the press?

If you are then I have to have to say your memory is at fault. This is not point scoring this is pointing out why most Evertonians with a vote turned their back on KEOIC. I should know that hoolie pic reason is why I did.

I make no reference to your main points because frankly I?ve heard them before. Sorry I know that sounds rude Tom and I know you believe in your case but my post was really about how your argument was made and lost not the content.
Joe Ludden
45   Posted 01/04/2008 at 18:18:16

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Chris, you are not bothered about the content of Tom’s post? Just the way he makes his argument? Terrific. Fantastic. Ignore the facts about Kirkby and ignore redeveloping GP because you’ve heard them before. And you are saying Tom’s method of argument is wrong? Sand, head, burying, you’re , the, your, In. Try that content.
Tom Hughes
46   Posted 01/04/2008 at 18:36:26

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Chris,
May I suggest..... you can’t argue with the main points because they are facts. Facts that are relevant to the future of our club, which quite frankly your attempt at demeaning the argument is not. I made the comparison to illustrate the flawed democracy argument...... which a vote with ONLY one promoted option is.

That said, I still would like you to show where and when KEIOC did what you say.... and furthermore the relevance to the main issue, that is the future of our Football club. I remember this non-issue very well, the people involved and where it supposedly took place...... I just never saw anywhere where it was attributed to or accepted by KEIOC.
Chris Roberts
47   Posted 01/04/2008 at 18:57:03

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I?m not arguing with them because I cannot be arsed to be honest. I?ve been through this too many times and when the most basic facts are disputed (the MUFC hoolie thing) what?s the point?
Eugene Ruane
48   Posted 01/04/2008 at 18:44:45

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Tom, I?m with you 100%, but to quote Raffles (The Gentleman Thug) "You?re urinating into a strong breeze dear boy"

Having met no blues in ?real life? (NOT ONE SIR!) prepared to vociferously say, "we should...nay MUST go to Kirkby...SOON!!

My natural cynicism leads me to believe, all those here and elsewhere, anonymously shouting down people like yourself, may not be all they appear (or rather...DON?T appear).

Of course this is just guesswork on my part, however there?s one thing I?m SURE of.

If I was an unscrupulous AND wealthy person, used to getting my own way.....that?s what I?d do.

Si Page
49   Posted 01/04/2008 at 19:14:10

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I can?t believe how many people are giving Paul stick for his suggestion. Granted, it?s not gonna happen on Saturday with any great numbers, but the sentiment?s right.

All you idiots saying that you?re not gonna react to a few dickheads in the Kop....then what the fuck are you going to react to. When the M57/62 has signs saying ?Welcome To Liverpool - Home Of Liverpool FC?? Or maybe it?ll be when Everton?s coverage in the Echo is akin to Tranmere?s, as, afterall it is the ?Liverpool Echo?. Get you heads together, this is just the start.

As for the others who are happy to say that there was a vote, the club won, that?s the end of it. Are you not at all concerned that there seems to be an awful lot of people who didn?t receive voting forms, or received 3?

Paul, as I said, your heart?s in the right place, but I don?t reckon much is gonna come of that on Saturday!!
Mark Csssin
50   Posted 01/04/2008 at 19:22:39

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Derek Thomas,

well seeing as you asked nicely;

1-UPSETTING PLAYERS.
2- DISENCHANTING THE BOSS
3- MAKING US LOOK A LAUGHING STOCK
4- OTHER THINGS WHICH RETARDS LOOK LIKE

what a stupid thing to do...oooooh are we now the labour party of the 70’s in the year 2008? WELL DONE
Tom Hughes
51   Posted 01/04/2008 at 19:21:55

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How is the MUFC hoolie thing the main issue? How is it an issue at all? We’re talking about the whole future of our football club. Even if I showed my backside in Lewis’ Window with a large KEIOC banner on it, it could not detract from the real issues. Justifying your stance (if you could call it that) with this irrelevance is laughable.
Tom Hughes
52   Posted 01/04/2008 at 19:33:23

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Mark,

"Disenchanting the Boss?"

Is that the same boss who has hinted on more than one occasion recently that he favours staying at GP?

"Making us look a laughing stock"?

Kings Dock, Fortress...... and I take it you missed the whole of Anfield proclaiming the city’s all ours.
Billy Brad
53   Posted 01/04/2008 at 19:31:32

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Mark, listen mate the players have already upset the fans Cahill and the once EFC player stubbs opening there traps when moving has fuck all to do with them. They will never see any new or redeveloped stadium as they will be long gone ALA stubbs. Mr Moyes has said he is a traditionalist and would like to stay at GP and likened the situation to celtic moving from glasgow. As for laughing stocks, you ask all the supporters who attened anfield on sunday who were the laughing stocks, it fucken hurt everytime they sang kirkby songs. Finaly at least the labour party stood up for what they belive in, there are so many Evertonians who dont and wont go to kirkby so come on you laid back get behind the cause and KEIOC.
Paul Gladwell
54   Posted 01/04/2008 at 19:27:34

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The shit people get for being totally devastated that men ( one who has no connection and feelings for our club)with a history of lying to us are gambling with 130 years of our history.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but what gives you the right to slaughter devoted blues who are the life and soul of this club?
Just remember, they have a top draw record of cock ups and you all come on here backing them up over people who will be here long after the main instigator of this has long left to screw someone else.
Tom Hughes
55   Posted 01/04/2008 at 19:39:25

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Ejruane,
Given the responses I have to admit to having come to a similar conclusion myself, roughly about the same time Wyness first mentioned the word "deliverable".........

Having said that, urinating into the breeze can be quite satisfying, even if only to show that your argument is well hung. ;)
Joe Ludden
56   Posted 01/04/2008 at 20:00:32

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Mark Cassin - I think everyone has something to bring to this debate, but i think the thing you should bring is silence. Your posts range from the uninformed to the simply comic. How does a protest achieve any of your points? What colour is the sky on your planet?
David Kiely
57   Posted 01/04/2008 at 20:19:51

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I tell you what, there?s some real Uncle Tom?s amongst Everton supporters after reading some of the responses here.

Told a pack of - what is demonstrably now - lies by the board in August last year, they come back looking to show how willing they are to do theie master?s dirty work again by undermining a call for a protest to the Kirkby Doomsday machine.

If you dont want to protest, fair enough. But leave the way free for lads on here and in the real world with a pair of bollocks between their legs to get on with the job of saving the club.

Neil Adderley
58   Posted 01/04/2008 at 20:22:17

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I?ve just got back home to the news that after months of consistently refusing any form of dialogue, the CEO of Everton Football Club "The peoples club," in his own and Everton FC?s name, has broken the ice through a solicitors letter, threatening legal action against match going Evertonians.

Can Keith Wyness stoop any lower than trying to silence a group of Evertonians genuinely concerned about the future of OUR club?

A dispicable act by a dispicable man. (My personal view MR. Wyness.)

It makes the statement released to the press by the club yesterday that finished with the line; ?Respect is a two-way street.? ring very hollow. Everton FC threatening to sue its own supporters. A black day indeed.

Shame on Wyness.

Gerard Madden
59   Posted 01/04/2008 at 20:56:02

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I find Paul Lally’s increasing desperation hilarious to be honest - we keep getting told by the ’remaining few’ that Kirkby is dead, finished, finito, ended - whatever - while behind the scenes in the real world away from small messageboards ’n forums its progressing as well as a massive much needed £400m regeneration project can possibly do for a poor run-down area - yet i’ve noticed the ’few’ are getting ever more ’het-up’ as the days ’n weeks roll by - they should be relaxed - after all ’It aint happening is it?’, KEIOC should be sitting there, cigars in mouths, champers in hand just waiting for the final confirmation.....
Robert Carney
60   Posted 01/04/2008 at 21:09:00

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Madden, back to the old psuedynomn.

How much are you paid to drivel your crap out?

Fellow Evertonians, beware of solicitors letters. Bully is gettng scared he might lose his bonus. Old tactics I beleived he used at Aberdeen.

For the futrure of our beloved club the campaign must go on. A sit in protest for half an hour is less damaging than a stay away.

re. All comments about fans from outside the city, I have freinds who would put most of us to shame with their knowledge and passion of this historic club. Theyare from ?wait for it? Scandinavian. We should be singing the praises of people who adopt our club as their own.
Gerard Madden
61   Posted 01/04/2008 at 21:29:13

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Not getting paid a penny Robert - how much are you getting paid for the drivel you crap out? You’re another example of the ’het-up’ nature of the remaining few who simply cannot accept there are blues ’out there’ - thousands of ’em - as proved by the democratic ERS ballot, who are accepting/delighted over the move (after wiping a tear away for the dear ol’ lady of course), get over it - though I can see the theraputical need for some to get their frustrations out on small messageboards ’n forums. :)
Jimmy Fearns
62   Posted 01/04/2008 at 21:19:13

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Comparing Bill Kenwright with Mugabe is a disgrace; Mugabe must sue immediately.
Robert Carney
63   Posted 01/04/2008 at 22:02:54

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Madden, small message boards like this has attracted a few apologist?s like yourself has it not.

If you want to follow this present stewardship of this cub to ooblivion, that is your choice. Recent history as an example shows out of town devolopments are very unpopular.

Middlesborough, Blolton etc etc come to mind. I have said before, organize a trip around these places and the dream location of Kirkby you so desire ( I still believe you are payed to promote) will soon abate.

David Kiely
64   Posted 01/04/2008 at 22:30:50

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If this stadium debate achieves nothing else it will have added a new word to the English language - Madden (noun):

I?ve just had a Madden and I?m flushing it down the bog; get out of here you dirty fuckin? Madden.

You learn something new every day.

John Andrews
65   Posted 01/04/2008 at 23:25:53

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First and foremost I do not live in Liverpool.
However I feel as strongly about the ground move as anybody else.
I would definitely not move to Kirkby and the reasons are as follows.
We have been LIED to over the alleged cost of the stadium.
Every time that Wyness opens his mouth we get a different version of the costs involved.
It seems that every time that Kenwright speaks up he expresses remorse over having to move away from Goodison Park.
I suspect it is true that if the move goes through then Wyness will get his pension and he will be heading for the door. Very quickly !
What initially turned out as a "Free" stadium is now, allegedly, going to cost in the region of £100m.
As somebody mentioned before "Deal of the Century ? " Only if your name is Kenwright or Wyness !
Robert Carney
66   Posted 02/04/2008 at 00:05:03

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If the noun "Madden" becomes as you so describe David, what will the names Kenwright and Wyness invoke in the future? Beware of solicitors' letters before you reply.
Ciaran Duff
67   Posted 02/04/2008 at 06:12:46

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Motive, motive, motive Mr Watson!
Can anyone tell what ulterior motive BK, KW & co. would have for a move to Kirkby? The only options I can think of are :-
1. They are complete incompetents. Maybe but then the club has steadily improved and all fronts since they’ve been here. You’d also have to believe that Moyes & Sir Terence Leahy are also brainless. I don’t think so.
2. They want to increase the value of the club and then sell it off to some rich investor for a handsome profit. If you believe that then you must believe that the move & new stadium will increase our value which presumably is a good thing?
3. They have investigated the options available and believe that this one while not perfect is in the best interest of the club. Crazy talk I know but it just might be true.
Paul Gladwell
68   Posted 02/04/2008 at 07:44:36

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The remaining few eh Gerrard, or whatever you are calling yourself today.
Well alot more of the remaining few are posting on this site than the yes voters, say it again are you a plant? noticed your hero and compulsive liar has been trailing these sites with the news he is not happy with some of the comments on KEIOC website, how pathetic, infact I better be carefull may ended recieving a solicitors letter.
Tom Hughes
69   Posted 02/04/2008 at 09:51:06

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Gerard Madden’s "remaining few"........ How ironic from the person who feels the need to invent new people just to boost his numbers!? How he can have the gaul to comment after being sussed is beyond me. Smoke and mirrors all the way with the pro-kirkby stance
Planning application pushed back to July at the earliest now. Weren’t the foundations supposed to be dug by then according to KW?
Gerard Madden
70   Posted 02/04/2008 at 10:45:52

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You?re wrong Tom about me ?feeling the need to invent new people just to boost my numbers?? - the truth is that whenever I posted under my name they were held in a queue (The same as everyone else I assume?) and then didnt get put up on the site (Not the same as everyone else?) despite the posts containing no bad language or personal abuse of other members - unlike the posts of some others on here! It was made quite clear to me in an e-mail from the esteemed Mr.Kenrick that my pro-Kirkby views were not welcome here and he took offence to me using harmless terms like ?most blues are in favour as evidenced by the ballot, lack of protests, lack of anti-Kirkby energy around the ground...etc..? - when we see anti-Kirkby posts every single day from the same old same old few who think their view is the same as the views of ?most Evertonians?. Petty stuff indeed...I hope the censorship days are over now.

'Madden' or whoever you are, That is not the reason I gave you and you well know it. I told you to post as yourself and offer comments for yourself, not claiming that you speak for others. That is what I objected to.

By posting under different identies, you have flouted the Conditions of Use of this site which is why your contributions will be monitiored or banned. ? The Editor.

Steve Collins
71   Posted 02/04/2008 at 10:46:41

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Finally someone thinking logically. Ciaran Duff You said it exactly.

What amazes me about all of this is you are all Everton Supporters fighting with each other

I mean WTF??

Ciaran is right why is it such a bad thing what have you lot got against the people who saved this club?

No one else Wanted Everton at the time and it appears we still have no interest from potential investors.

So when our current board try to do something for the good of our debt stricken club which would hopefully raise the profile and create more profit though marketing and gate receipts alot of you piss on them.

Do you all really think Bill and Keith are that feckin stupid to see better alternatives?

This he said she said amateur hour investigation and report sh*t is getting old.

If its not one group telling us we should ahve done this or another so called expert saying we were wrong we should have gone here.

I mean c?mon i know guys who are professionals in different fields for 20 plus years that doesn?t mean they are experts or are so intelligent that they get everything right.

It like a big case of paranoia.

Paul?s idea is good but at the end of the day like someone else said in response it needs organising alot better. Paul obviously is unhappy with the way things are going thats no reason to berate him He is entitled to opinion.

Stand together as Everton supporters.
Tom Hughes
72   Posted 02/04/2008 at 11:56:43

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Gerard,
I agree there shouldn’t be censorship, however, it doesn’t explain how you then did similar on wholly impartial forums such as Skyscrapercity, posting as several different characters at once when no-one else would support your now outdated arguments.

"In the absence of protests"? I’m not sure what you would call by far the biggest anti-move vote of all those carried out, despite the totally one-sided media supported ballot. I’m not sure what you would call the apparent absence of pro-move voters on any forum since the continual revelations about how far we have strayed from the pre-vote promises.

If you are nothing more than another blue who wishes to share his opinion, then why a concerted campaign of switching identities across a broad spectrum of forums? This can only imply ulterior or more sinister motives. You seem unable to tie down one identity, so how can you really verify that you are not connected to the Kirkby project.
Michael Brien
73   Posted 02/04/2008 at 12:21:22

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A good article Paul - Yes indeed there was a vote - but I always thought people had a right to express their opinions. I voted Labour throughout the time of the Thatcherite era - it didn’t stop people expressing their opinions and opposition.
Whether or not you agree or disagree with Paul, I am absolutely appallled at some of the vitirolic response to his views.If you have to resort to abusive language in reply to an argument- any argument - it usually shows that you are clearly lacking in ideas.
Greg Murphy
74   Posted 02/04/2008 at 12:54:28

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Tom Hughes -

Apologies for going off at a (related) tangent:

Any thoughts or clarification regarding that last question of mine on the Christine Foster "What Makes Everton FC So Special Thread?" last week?

Just really curious if you could shed any light or disentangle something about PJ’s muddled mindset which has bugged me for years.

Was he actually on the right lines but just didn’t realise it?

Cheers - and apologies all for this slip-road entry.
Mark Cassin
75   Posted 02/04/2008 at 13:18:05

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Joe Ludden--err well I dont believe I am favouring a protest--quite the opposite in fact.

The vote has passed. Sitting in a stadium after the final whistle is hadly going to change a majority vote now is it?

As for being uninformed--what drivel. We have all had access to the same information. Vote has been passed.

I would protest about ref decisions etc etc as someone else stated but not when a vote has already been made.
Steve Stott
76   Posted 02/04/2008 at 13:47:27

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A contribution I made to a similar issue on the mailbag but just as relevant here I think.

Just a thought - it was a democratic vote which resulted in a resounding Yes vote - don?t forget No votes came third to abstaintions. Wouldn?t it therefore be better for all concerned if KEIOC and Yes deniers embraced the fact that they lost and put their effort in starting a dialogue with Everton and all other interested parties, Tesco, Knowsley Council, local residents, supporters to ensure the stadium move is a success and we get the stadium & facilities we believe we deserve.
Seems sensible way forward to me instead of this constant bickering.
Alan Willo
77   Posted 02/04/2008 at 13:11:53

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God you make me smile at times, Tom H and others your facts are not true. Cant you see that your rants just turn people away as you put your point across by slagging of EFC and the Board. That direction does not gather winners its a losing rant, a bit like that stupid plane. The longer you all get nasty the less chance you have of getting fans on board. The original post slags of Kirkby as a dump? then can anybody tell me what is Walton and Anfield then? I believe I walk through dog shi== every home game, houses full of scallie losers(not all just some). Before you have a go I grew up in them streets and my Mum still lives there and she has never felt to scared than she does today. it was a great place to grow up and I enjoyed it but today its not the same so lets not make out GP is in the best of areas. What you need is a backer who has millions to spare so unless you get that then EFC s have to sell to the best bidder may not fit in to the derek hatton way off life but its real world.(And derek Hatton is a wanker anyway) COYB
Tom Hughes
78   Posted 02/04/2008 at 14:33:57

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Greg,
I’ve now replied to you on that thread.
Tom Hughes
79   Posted 02/04/2008 at 14:36:12

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Alan,
It really would really help if you would state which of my facts are untrue. I’m affraid the rest of your post is irrelevant as far I’m concerned, no offence .... but what has Derek Hatton (A yes voter I believe) and dog shit got to do with the future of Everton, or much else for that matter? Stick to the issues you disagree with and I’ll attempt to respond by way of debate.
Steve Stott
80   Posted 02/04/2008 at 14:53:45

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Tom,

Those of us who are in favour of the move to Kirkby (I can’t call myself a Yes voter as I was not eligible to vote) would love to debate the issues with those of you who are against the move - unfortunately you belittle our reasoning for supporting the move as lies, lies and damn lies whilst taking everything the ’No’ brigade put forward as the truth wnen most of it is not backed up with any or very little evidence. For example I have yet to see any properly costed proposal for The Loop, more importantly I’ve yet to see what the benefits would be in going into partnership with a Company of the stature of Bestway (no disrespect to them) instead of a proven multi-billion company in Tesco with a CEO, whilst being an Evertonian, is also a highly respected Industry heavyweight. On the issue of redeveloping Goodison - The Sh... have tried this route & realised it is not financially viable, Arsenal moved because they also realised it was the only option. We have to move with the times. it doesn’t mean I like it I don’t I’m becoming more and more disillusioned with the way football is heading but if it is the only way to survive. To end I refer back to my earlier contribution the Yes vote won so let’s unite, support the move and try and influence what the stadium and facilities will be provided. You might have not liked the result but it was a democratic process which the Club involved the fans (it didn’t have to) so why not now get involved in trying to make it as successful as possible.
Chris Taylor
81   Posted 02/04/2008 at 17:33:47

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A rubbish idea, protesting is an RS thing.
Tom Hughes
82   Posted 02/04/2008 at 18:03:26

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Steve,
Again, what from the NO camp is backed up by very little evidence? The evidence is there if you are prepared to look, which of the "lies" do you wish to contend? The ballot was fundamentally flawed, the YES vote was achieved via headline promises that have not been kept. The Stadium will now cost the club substantially more than claimed, practically nothing grew to £80m min nett after the vote (Robert Earl AGM 2007) . This therefore also renders the "no plan B" due to funding another inaccurate vote winner. The "most accessible stadium in the country" now requires the biggest park and ride scheme at any football ground. How can it even be more accessible than GP that doesn’t need this? These are facts that not even the club is denying, so why even include the now meaningless vote as a valid argument?

Incidentally..... Bestway are probably worth more than EFC and LFC put together, they are also a private company who are not beholden to shareholders unlike Tesco PLC and can pledge whatever they wish. Mighty Tesco has stated that it is not donating anything to the stadium costs at all, regardless of their turnover, which therefore in respect to building our stadium has proven to be irrelevant. They need the enablers to make this work, and even then we will be left with the now massive shortfall. Bestway’s owner’s personal fortune alone is also greater than the value of EFC, many times over in fact. They also commissioned world renowned stadium designers HOK (as opposed to local supermarket designers with some stadium experience) to produce a report on the viability of their site. The club simply stonewalled it (see the article on the main TW site), that’s why you haven’t seen anything further about it, what would be the point in pursuing someone if they are not interested. They also ignored the Walton Hall Park approach which was recently released and reported on extensively. Why weren’t these all represented on the ballot Literature? On the issue of redeveloping, this is still the most common method of increasing capacity and improving facilities. You mention Anfield which was done with little foresight and to a pitiful final capacity. You fail to mention Old Trafford/St James Park/Stamford Bridge and many others. But..... regardless where have I or KEIOC said they are against moving per se? Unless you have got a spare £250m min we wont be getting anything like the Emirates so the comparison is slightly skewed from the reality of Kirkby. They also stayed within the same borough as Highbury, which incidentally was far more constricted than GP.
Paul Lally
83   Posted 02/04/2008 at 17:41:19

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Sorry but -
To all pro Kirkby Evertonians -
Fuck off to Kirkby, the citys NOT ours.
(Like you obviously give a shit - Not).That is me saying it just so you cannot spout the usual no scousers are LFC fans or they are all from outside of Merseyside - Scandanavians, Irish etc etc -Oh and the why are we listening to Kopites nonsense.
I listen to them because my uncle is one, 4 of my cousins, my niece, Brother-in-law etc etc.
My Dad,Daughter,other niece, wife etc etc are blues.
Split like a lot of families for generations..
Some of my red family are more passionate about the whole moving out of the city debate than a lot of you will ever be.

Why is that do you think ? Is it because despite the crap on here re red fans a lot of them are just like us and actually give a shit about the history and tradition of football within our city especially the distance between the 2 clubs.
Now there is absolutely no way you will agree or understand that last sentince unless you have been brought up and lived in Liverpool - not having a go at supporters from out of the city, no way but it is simply impossible to understand the deep rooted rivalry and bond (yes bond) that exists between the majority of blue and red, born and bred scousers.
Madden or whoever you are - I am glad you find it so hilarious that a fellow blue is torn up inside regarding a move that could well and truly
see EFC completely dominated by our neighbours especially as we are the FIRST club in this city and should be doing everything in our power to ensure that is the way it should remain for generations.
Now I am at it - going off on tangents which is exactly what the closed minded, rose tinted glasses brigade want.
The board say Kirkby is the right move because they say so - that is it then it must be. Boards never get things wrong do they ? Tell that to the investors in Northern Rock and Bear Stearns.
I also take it that the people who want to go to Kirkby have the same view of their fellow Evertonians as BK - basically yes the club is split, yes the supporters are at each others throats, yes the whole city is split - TOUGH SHIT.


And this by the way includes telling Evertonians who just happen to be highly specialised in stadium design, development etc to mind their own business.
You would think the board would utilise this bank of talent and skill as they know they would get the best possible work achieved by people who love the club. No ignore them. Treat them like peasants as per last AGM.
Walton Hall Park - anyone know about Sainsbury’s interest and the possibility of a stadium there before the Kirkby vote ?
Of course not - it may well have meant you voted no.
No options were given. No plan ’B’. That is how it was sold to the supporters.
Hobsons Choice - offered on a ballot paper.
Why all the secrecy ?
Release the files Bill, realease the files.
The future of football is money - agreed. By the time we have a team that will fill Kirkby with 50,000 blues LFC will be playing in Stanley Park raking it in - One club, one city.
Sorry lend me those rose tinted glasses - we will be attracting massive revenue streams in Kirkby by then won’t we ?
Jimmy Fearns
84   Posted 02/04/2008 at 20:48:32

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Alan Willo, let's move to Kirkby, because I?m such a dozy fucking twat that I keep standing in dog shit every week and fucking stink to high heaven. Is this the best you Yes voters can come up with? God help us. By the way, dogs have arses in Kirkby too.
Kevin Mitchell
85   Posted 02/04/2008 at 22:55:18

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I totally despair at reading posts from pro-Kirkby people who go on about "show me the facts" about redeveloping Goodison, the Bestway site, Walton Hall Park. When will it sink in that you?ve been taken for a ride by the people who run our club? What is it you don?t understand from the the facts that Tom Hughes and others continually keep feeding you?
If the majority of fans think the grass is going to be greener in Kirkby, then were in the shit big time. The only thing that upset me about the banner in the kop on Sunday was that it wasn?t big enough.

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