Likewise, it looks like we cannot afford to get rid of David Moyes after Kenwright agreed to give him such a ridiculous salary/contract.
I was one of the stupid ones at the start of the season who genuinely thought we had a great chance to win the Premier League (every 24 years and that) and now, when I look at the table and see how few points we are behind the leaders, and think of all the points we have dropped, maybe I wasn?t that daft... With more positive thinking and a bit of luck, we could have been in the mix. At the start of the season I would not have swapped our midfield for any other team's, and felt we were only one or two signings away from a great team.
I don't know much about Steve Round apart from he used to be joined at the hip with Steve McClaren and then went on to coach Newcastle and helped to get them relegated playing shit football.
Unfortunately in business the buck has to stop somewhere and, at least if Steve Round was shown the door, maybe the Ginger One might follow him. I've just looked to see what Steve Round has achieved and it looks as though he had played 9 games at full back for Derby County and that was his professional football career. I would wish him well to find a new job at his level, but Everton FC are obviously too big for him.
We need to change things immediately and freshen up the players with a more attack-minded coach and if David Moyes does not like it, he knows where the door is, although I think he is too smart to walk away from his contract. I do like him as a person and think that he has been a great ambassador for the club, but his tactics, style of football and substitutions leave a lot to be desired. I think only David Moyes and maybe Richard Dodd would have chosen that line-up at home to Wigan...
As we cannot afford to pay for a Taxi for David Moyes, it will have to be a bus ticket for Steve Round.
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1 Posted 12/12/2010 at 22:42:40
No doubt Moyes has proved himself to be a good motivator, but he's shown himself to not be the total package as a tactician. A good manager needs a good coach to assist him. If we want highly technical, attacking football, with a solid defense, then we need a coach who can help Moyes achieve this.
Steve Round just isn't good enough for a team that wants to be competing for silverware.
2 Posted 12/12/2010 at 23:06:02
3 Posted 12/12/2010 at 22:52:39
Onto something entirely different, having just watched a marvellous game between Spurs and Chelsea, two of the game's powerhouse teams, it came to mind that Everton proved their worthy equals.
I then remembered our shockers against 'lower' sides and wondered what can explain such sublime to ridiculous performances. The only answer I could raise is that the 'big' sides aim for a win against us while the 'little' sides are aiming to avoid defeat.
4 Posted 12/12/2010 at 23:12:21
Unfortunately, Moyes is obviously not qualified! Anybody know the number for Peter Reid, Adrian Heath, Paul Bracewell ...... [delete / replace name as appropriate!]
5 Posted 12/12/2010 at 23:14:50
Something HAS to change. I agree it is highliy unlikely Moyes will leave, so it could be a decent call to axe Round. Let's face it, results can't get much worse!
6 Posted 13/12/2010 at 00:24:23
Not sure about Ray Wllkins, as I can still remember his nickname of 'the crab' in his playing days. We are getting enough sideways passing these days wthout any more (although not as much as in the Mark Higgins era ? thankfully!!!!).
7 Posted 13/12/2010 at 01:19:30
That game was shite on Saturday.
8 Posted 13/12/2010 at 01:17:57
9 Posted 13/12/2010 at 01:52:10
If Round is the problem, we need to get rid and get someone in who can change the way we play and instill some confidence in the players, and that person has to be strong enough to be his own man and not a Moyes clone.
10 Posted 13/12/2010 at 02:07:53
11 Posted 13/12/2010 at 09:31:41
I watched England train when McClaren was in charge. McClaren and Venables did all the talking and Round just put out the cones, handed out the bibs, held a stop watch and blew a whistle. Round had no tactical input whatsoever. That is the reason Moyes wanted him. Our predicament is not Round's fault, it is Moyes's.
12 Posted 13/12/2010 at 10:09:03
I know there is a consensus that we can't afford to sack Moyes, since we signed up to his king's ransom of a contract. I myself subscribed to this point of view but think there may be a way around this... If the board were to sell a couple of players behind the manager's back (It's happened before) then I believe Moyes's position would become untenable.
Now, whilst I doubt this would precipitate a walking-out, I think it may lead to a negotiated ending of his contract at a more reasonable level, as it would no longer be in his interests to stay.
13 Posted 13/12/2010 at 11:01:32
Read some history mate ? Harry S Truman the US President used to have a plaque on his desk with the motto: "The buck stops here"... The buck stops with Moyes ? he is the bloke in charge, not Round.
14 Posted 13/12/2010 at 12:05:34
Moyes selected Saha.
15 Posted 13/12/2010 at 13:14:47
16 Posted 13/12/2010 at 13:41:24
17 Posted 13/12/2010 at 13:38:44
To slag Steve Round is a fuckin' joke. None of us knows if he is to blame for ANYTHING. You are either really stupid, really pissed off, or you have just caught Round nailing your Mrs. Absolutely fuckin' pathetic! The buck stops with the manager and the players for missing chance after chance!
18 Posted 13/12/2010 at 16:25:50
He took all the plaudits, when he announced the signing of the young up and coming manager.
Well it aint working, Mr Chairman so get your act together.
19 Posted 13/12/2010 at 16:38:19
Either way you turn it over, the buck stops at DM. He thinks Saha is a good striker, so why should we be surprised ????
20 Posted 13/12/2010 at 18:27:37
That's a lot more than we, the fans, see him.
If it was up to me, I wouldn't play Saha either.
But at least Moyes gives a valid reason for playing him.
For as rubbish as Saha is playing, he is far more proven at Premiership level than Beckford, for all of Beckford's endeavour and enthusiasm. Barlow and Angell were hard workers and enthusiastic too, but they couldn't score for the first team either. Saha's no great shakes idea this season, but there's always the hope he will bounce back.
I remember us getting rid of a good manager in Joe Royle because people tired of him - a decision that set us back 5 years and nearly cost us our Premiership status several times. People would do well to remember their history!
21 Posted 13/12/2010 at 18:37:01
Not for one minute am I saying it is all Steve Rounds fault.
What I am saying that something positive needs to happen fast. I agree with you that the results and style of football are down to David Moyes, but I amsurmising that we cannot afford to get rid of him and continue paying him £3,500,000 a year. Just maybe if Round went, Moyes may feel his position
was untenable and walk.
Worst case scenario, we would freshen up the training ground with a more attack minded coach who at least could train our right backs to pass forward to one of his own players or a least cross a ball.(seamus not included)
22 Posted 13/12/2010 at 19:12:20
Also Moyes's defence of Saha is pathetic. We see him where it matters and he looks utter dog shit. We also see Beckford scoring then being dropped, same with Yak. Players should be judged on their activity on the pitch during a game ? not in training.
23 Posted 13/12/2010 at 20:01:10
24 Posted 13/12/2010 at 20:12:55
Our first signing of the summer has been tied up and Steve Round has completed his move to Everton from Newcastle. Alan Irvine, Moyes's first assistant, has been missed a lot since he left and I think that the results from the last 6 or so games proved this. But who can begrudge him a shot at being manager of one of the biggest Championship clubs, Preston North End?
Alan Irvine was a winger in his playing days. We could do with a decent winger next season in my opinion. One who could feed the Yak. Now last season, with Moyes and Irvine in charge, we were strong at the back with Jag's, Yobo and Joey Lescott and we had Cahill, Arteta, and Osman, who had a great season last campaign. Who can forget that goal in the Uefa Cup? Then upfront we were feeding the Yak and scoring. For three months of the season we were playing the best football I've seen in my whole life at Goodison. I don't want to compare it to the 80s because I wasn't alive then but my Dad says it was just as good as the times when Peter Reid and Trevor Steven were feeding Sharpy.
However, as I mentioned before, some of the football last season was awful. Hoofball was an understatement. Our defence was sound but our attack seemed non-existent with AJ running wide and Yak not seeming to be able to hit a cows arse with a banjo. Moyes is a fantastic manager and he has shown his coaching attributes defensively by the amount of goals conceded this year. It's no coincidence that since he's been in charge, clean sheets have been increased ten-fold.
I've done some research into Steve Round and found out that he was a full back at Derby County until an injury ended his playing career and he went on to become Newcastle's assistant manager. I don't want to be pessimistic but, like Moyes, he was a defender in his playing days and usually defensive players tend to be defensive managers ? Brian Robson, Steve Bruce to name but a couple.
Spurs have got the right idea I think. A strict disciplinarian Juande Ramos in charge with a touch of flair alongside him in Gus Poyet. Spurs may've conceded a few goals last season but they scored just as many with some fantastic football all around the park. Yes, they have more money than we do, but I think the style of football a team plays is more to do with the type of management the players are given than the players them selves. Anyone can hoof the ball 70 yards to the striker... equally just as anyone can look for the nearest blue shirt and play neat one-twos to feet. Arsenal do this fantastically, the pass-and-move style they play is excellent on the eyes. I think that this just proves that it's more down to tactics than the calibre of player involved.
Now Steve Round seems to have some great qualities as a coach which I don't doubt for one minute. My only question would be are they any different to the qualities Moyes already possesses? He has built up a great spirit throughout the squad and management,which make us a team extremely difficult to break down. But to break into that top four, you also need to posses flair and quality which we showed in spells last season. Arteta provides this; so does Osman, but all too often, when we are struggling or have a few injuries, the ball gets launched in the air towards a striker who isn't that tall.
Now I know the old saying, If you don't concede, you can't loose. which is very true. But, If you don't score, you won't win. But I think it's time to decided what we want. Should we take a risk and play it on the floor? Or should we cut out the middleman and send it forward in the air, knowing that we won't concede many because Lescott and Yobo are at the back?
All I know is that I wish Steve all the best and hopefully next year we'll be playing like the class of the eighties week-in, week-out.
25 Posted 13/12/2010 at 20:03:16
I believe it should be Moyes to go, but because I don't think this will ever happen a) because we can't afford to sack him b) BK is too pally with him to ever sack him c) he's far too comfy in his position to ever walk out - an assistant coach with fresh ideas might at least help shake things up a bit. And yes it probably is pure frustration which has me thinking this way.
I agree with Alan #22 about the defence of Saha. It's almost as useless as saying "he looked good on Youtube". If you aren't delivering the goods when it really matters then you need to be dropped.
I'm sure Hibbert has scored in training.
26 Posted 13/12/2010 at 20:50:56
27 Posted 14/12/2010 at 01:13:32
Would of edited that bit out if I was you!
28 Posted 14/12/2010 at 01:18:44
However, I have no idea of his coaching abilities or areas of expertise and no knowledge of what he's like as motivator or sounding board for the manager. Surely he only has as much input as Moyes permits?
29 Posted 14/12/2010 at 08:56:54
Round is supposed to be the head coach. It's his job to ensure players are fit and or good enough to be picked by Moyse..however I agree..its down to Moyse..he picks the team..he chooses the wrong positions and the wrong tactics, and the dour negative football.
Ultimately it's down to Moyse he picks the team..it is he who needs kicking out of the door.
30 Posted 14/12/2010 at 11:14:10
Wasn't he just the translator for Ancellotti, when he learned to speak English he wasnt needed anymore?
31 Posted 14/12/2010 at 13:25:42
Allan Clarke #22 ? You are not quite right about none of us wanted Royle out! I clearly remember walking off the top balcony after the Bradford cup game in '97 and a bunch of "fans" were chanting "Royle Out"! I realise this was a minority but it is something i will never forget. Awful decision to sack Big Joe. A good manager and an absolute gentleman when my parents and i met him just before the home game against Forest in Feb '97.
And to replace him with Kendall was just insulting! We met Kendall at Bellefield in 97-98. He was an ignorant twat. Broke my Dad's heart seeing as he idolised him from the 80s glory days! (Sorry, this is a bit off-topic.)
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