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Many Opinions... One Fact: We are the 12th man!

By Ricky Rimmer :  03/01/2011 :  Comments (80) :
A week of comments... A wealth of opinions. A world of Everton Experts.

The appalling and heartless defeat at Stoke has prompted a situation at Everton that has yet to rear its head through David Moyes?s reign. We, as fans, are divided: there are countless opinions of what is right, what is wrong and what is best for our club.

Some of us think we know David Moyes inside out; his strengths, weaknesses, his thoughts, his fears. We can all but read his mind... we think it's all his fault.

Some of us blame the Everton Board of Directors and say David Moyes is not the problem... Mikel Arteta is not the problem... Nor is Tim Cahill... Nor Phil Neville. One man is sinking this ship: Bill Kenwright. He can?t run a business, he can?t run a football club. We think there are people who want to buy this club... billionaires, with a love for football who would die for Everton. We think these people are begging to buy this club and will stay for the long term to make us Champions again. But Bill Kenwright just doesn?t seem to like them.

A few of us blame the players. Mikel Arteta is nothing like the Best Little Spaniard we once knew.... Tim Cahill forces us into a team formation that is just not working... Steven Pienaar should be made to sign a contract or kicked out of the club.... Phil Neville may be captain material but cannot pass for toffee...

My personal opinion differs from minute to minute; it has in fact changed a few times whilst writing this article.

I have sympathy for Moyes due to the fact he has no money yet I am constantly frustrated by his reluctance to bring on subs until the final few minutes.

I have sympathy for Bill Kenright, who seems to be getting a lot of the stick from the fans at the moment but stays strong to hold out for the best deal for Everton. Yet I am sick of us having no money and seeing teams like Blackburn being ?invested in?.

I have sympathy for the players who aren?t getting a fair crack at the whip. Yakubu plays the best football he?s played for 2 years and then get?s dropped. Beckford comes on and makes an impact but still doesn?t get a prolonged run in the team. Yet we have a good a squad and if you're not playing at top form you should be dropped.

In looking back at the past three paragraphs, I have to re-consider one word. Sympathy? Sympathy for people on £20,000+ a week, it just doesn?t make sense. But I?ll leave it in.

At this moment in time, my opinion doesn?t really matter. Unfortunately, neither does yours. None of opinions matter at the moment ? what matters is getting our club through this increasingly sticky patch.

I can?t remember the last time I looked down at a league table and worried if West Ham winning would affect us. This is a distant memory, thanks to David Moyes and his players, and is something I take pride in.

I?m pretty happy that we?re not a sell-out club, like 50% of Premier League clubs are. I like my club to be an honest, hard-working club, with passionate fans, players and a passionate manager. We have this, and this is also something I take pride in.

Pride. That is what Everton Football Club is about. Some of you think Moyes is ripping it out of us. That is not true; I will always be a proud Evertonian. Why? Because, every time I get myself down to Goodison, I am surrounded by 40,000 other proud Evertonians.

We are proud to be Blue. We are proud to have fought relegation like Dogs of War. We are proud to have been the first to break the Top 4. We are proud to have reached the FA Cup Final. We are proud of our players. We are proud we?re not kopites, Mancs, or glory hunters!

Until now, I have been proud to support a club that always supports it?s servants. We only have to look across the park to see a club in shambles, with fans trying to force their manager out yet again. Let?s not do that. Let?s stick by Mr Moyes and stick by Everton.

On Wednesday night, I will be the 12th man, and I hope you will join me, because I need you, David Moyes needs you, Bill Kenwright needs you and the 11 players on the pitch need you. Everton FC well and truly needs you to stand up and be counted right now. We as fans, can turn this club round, and we as fans have a duty to do so after a very quiet season.

Let?s deafen Spurs and turn them over. Let?s chant songs that have rarely been heard at Goodison this year and let?s turn Goodison back into the fortress we all know it can be. Opinions may be divided, but 40,000 must be united to get through this patch.

We make this club ? not the players, not the manager ? the fans! So let?s show Spurs what we?ve got and remind the players, the manager and the chairman just what Everton FC is all about!

Reader Comments

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Ian Edwards
1   Posted 03/01/2011 at 21:05:49

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Appreciate the sentiment but for the long term benefit of the club we need Moyes to leave and should campaign for that.
Dave Lynch
2   Posted 03/01/2011 at 21:22:02

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What good is singing songs ?

You can sing till the cows come home, if the system is wrong and tactics are shite, we will get beat ? end of.

You can't sing the ball into the net.
Tom Collie
3   Posted 03/01/2011 at 21:28:51

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Another well written (professionally?) lengthy piece with the same message. Support the club, support Moyes and support Kenwright. Utter no words of complaint against our leaders.

Call me an old cynic but hmmmmmmmmmmm?
Phil Bellis
4   Posted 03/01/2011 at 21:23:36

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We are proud to be Blue. We are proud to have only in a handful of years in 120-odd been in relegation trouble. We are proud to have been the first team to reach 100 top-flight seasons. We are proud to have won FA Cups and League Titles
I refuse to conform to the "we were worse under Walter" post-Sky get realists
I do agree with your sentiments, Ricky, and hope to hear a full-house in full voice; I just hope Moyesey reverts to the man I thought he once could be and sends out an attacking team from the off
Christopher McCullough
5   Posted 03/01/2011 at 21:35:15

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Fans can make Kenwright squirm in his seat and embarass him in front of his corporate pals.

Fans can sing "attack, attack, attack". The manager is not deaf or immovable.

Fans can get behind the players because they are wearing our badge, the badge we've proudly inherited.

Fans can sink into inertia to facilitate the status quo.
Paul Loins
6   Posted 03/01/2011 at 21:45:41

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Totally agree with you, Ricky, and I for one will be singing my head off to get the team going. If we stick together with the manager and chairman, we will get through this blip. Moyes has got us through these low points before and we always have a stronger second half of the season... come on you blues !
Marc Comman
7   Posted 03/01/2011 at 21:11:06

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Good article Rick! and so right.The simple fact of the matter is we need investment , I understand BK's passion for the club but realistically he has no business acumen and relying on loans/handouts from his friends to buy players is just plain asinine.

He doesn't like the offers he gets because he knows that the people who gave him the loans/handouts will want value for their money (a larger than bank interest rate no doubt).

I do not dispute that this season has been awful up to now Davie Boy's tactics have definitely been brought into question, his loss of faith in his strikers has been phenomenal .He had the chance to get rid of two of these in the summer along with peanuts but chose to keep faith in them!.

Now here is the January window and now is the time to get rid of the deadwood, Saha, The Yak, Hetinga, Osman and yes even Arteta and Peanuts (Arteta is not the man he was before injury, peanuts because he wants to leave and we are allowing him to showcase his talent)

We should be playing Howard,Coleman,Jags, Distin, Baines, Neville,Rodwell, Billy, Fellani and two from Anichebe, Gueye,Beckford,Silva or Vaughn,.

Why have all these young forwards and not play them? we will never know how good they are if he doesn't take a chance on them, sending them out on loan to get games under their belt is pointless as we have crap strikers in Yak and Saha who are both over 30 , the Yak has been 28 for at least 4 years now!!!

BK needs to get some real money or sell the club so we can get some real money to invest in a team that's going to compete, we have some great players here up and comers who at the rate we are going will be sold as a stop gap to prevent us from going anywhere other than mid table mediocrity.

Look what happened when we sold Rooney, the money we made from that sale allowed us to compete for what 2-3 years ? then the Lescott sale for a year!.

BK's bullshit about he can't get a good buyer because of our stadium is also BS, The Shite sold and their Stadium is crap as did blackburn, chelski, spurs and numerous other clubs, when you think about it the only club who built a new stadium was Arsenal and they didn't sell!!

We need to give Moyes real money not a few mil each window then we can see what he is made of and if he can make us better at the moment he is frightened of failing and I believe that is why he is playing this negative football.

So for me a supporter of this club since 1967 when my step-father first took me to see them and still a supporter even though I only get to watch them on TV here in Hawaii, lets give Moyes and the team vocal support whilst hoping and praying that BK has the guts to let go of his passion long enough for someone like the Qatari royal family to buy and invest in us .
Michael Parrington
8   Posted 03/01/2011 at 21:45:55

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Just a point. By 20 games last year we had won 5 and drawn 8, leaving us 1 point better off than this year.

That being said I am a little worried that the position that we are in this season is much more dire, and I am really concerned that we are about to be involved in a relegation battle. Really because last year the poor start can be put down to player availability, whereas this year its down to poor management and loss of player confidence.

I agree with the sentiment of the article, that is if the manager isnt going to support an attacking style then the fans are going to have to help lift the morale of the individual players and team by getting right behind them.

On the question of Moyes. I've been a supporter, but I feel that he now needs to change his methods or leave. Although i'll be worried that another manager will be able to do as much with as little.
Dick Fearon
9   Posted 03/01/2011 at 21:40:53

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I am and til my dying day will always be a proud if as is currently the case a defiant Everton supporter. I may be 12,000 miles away from the action but as usual on a match day I will don my latest club shirt and hat to drive my dogs in 40c heat through town to the beach in my blue festooned car with its EVERTON 2 licence plates giving the finger to honking fans of lesser clubs who have sold their souls to foreigners.
At the same time I wish with all my heart that David Moyes would also show more pride in the traditions of this great club by purging himself of that broad yellow streak and truly going on the attack with a twin strike force. Alleluja!
Larry Boner
10   Posted 03/01/2011 at 21:54:12

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Singing and chanting never won any team anything, seeing your team attacking, winning tackles, SHOOTING, makes the atmosphere, then the crowd is motivated to roar the side on..
Its the intimidation of the opposition by the managers choice of team, look at the two games against Fiorentina. First leg, cowards tactics, lose 2-0, second leg, no choice but to go for it, all out attack and the atmosphere similar to the Bayern game.
If Mr Moyes picks an adventurous side against Spurs then the crowd will rally behind it, put a negative team out and the crowd will sense it and get on the players backs over every error.
It will be interesting to see if Pienaar even plays against Spurs.
Brian Waring
11   Posted 03/01/2011 at 22:20:53

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The problem is Ricky, is you can be really up for the game, wanting to get behind the lads, then you see the line - up, and you think, fuck! here we go again, negative shite.

All that passion then goes, because you are expecting to get beat, even before a ball is kicked.
Steve Higham
12   Posted 03/01/2011 at 22:25:15

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Larry #10 and Brian #11 exactly right .This season home and away when the team is announced my heart sinks.Have always been vocal at the game but the absolute turgid stuff we have produced this season has ground me and a lot of fans down.
I am hoping to see a change of outlook by Moyes on Weds night .Please Davey give the team a chance before they get on the pitch change your negative outlook. If this was to happen Ricky you might get Goodison rocking like it used to.
Martin Mason
13   Posted 03/01/2011 at 22:34:13

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Good article Rick and I share your sentiments. I think though that the situation is now well past the passion and singing lift thing and that we are into the end game.
Sam Hoare
14   Posted 03/01/2011 at 22:51:59

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Well said. And i thought i was the last optimist.
Roman Sidey
15   Posted 03/01/2011 at 22:47:44

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Ricky, well written, but it really was a massive waste of your, my, and everyone's time. BK's never going to do anything about the situation.
Steve Smith
16   Posted 04/01/2011 at 00:18:24

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Sometimes the team needs to do something to inspire us as supporters to get behind them, but Wednesday should be the other way round, I think this is one of those times for blind faith to come into the equation, on Wednesday night we as supporters {no matter what the team selection may be} should treat this game as a qualifier for the CL, create a noise that will hopefully transmit to the lads on the park, if any of you want to show a dissenting voice, save it for after the final whistle please.
Derek Thomas
17   Posted 04/01/2011 at 00:34:48

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Reply; Short version; Short sighted contributors for the use of.

Trevor Lynes
18   Posted 04/01/2011 at 00:38:11

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Atmosphere and loud vocal support is there at the start of every soon as the strains of Z cars is heard there is a 'tingle' of anticipation through every fan young and old....this nose dives because of the lack of excitement being picked up on by the PLAYERS...that is the rub !!!!
When we play the 'big teams' it continues longer as we are not expected to win and when we get a result the fans are fantastic.
BUT....when we play at home against the lesser teams and are seen to be struggling to make an impression the atmosphere subsides and the moans start...this is evident at Anfield too where every side in the past was intimidated by the kop.
We dont seem capable of prolonged domination and that is what gets the crowd really excited.
Arteta used to be the most fouled player in the league but now since his injury he does not hold onto the ball so he does not CREATE anything to excite the fans.
The players must create excitement and they are not doing it.
The fans start every game in good voice but they cannot be expected to cheer negative, pedestrian football for 90 minutes...the players must respond.
John Daley
19   Posted 04/01/2011 at 01:55:34

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"We are proud to have fought relegation like Dogs of War. We are proud to have been the first to break the Top 4. We are proud to have reached the FA Cup Final."

You really consider these to be monumental achievements to take great pride in?

"We only have to look across the park to see a club in shambles, with fans trying to force their manager out yet again."

Why bother? Why not just look closer to home and concentrate on our own club being an even bigger shambles with a large number of fans meekly accepting, and continually making excuses for, the manager's failings and shortcomings.
Alan Clarke
20   Posted 04/01/2011 at 09:03:13

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Michael Evans
21   Posted 04/01/2011 at 09:01:29

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Ricky - "we as fans,can turn this club round ..."

Ricky mate if that were true then we wouldn't be as worried as we are.

I was there for the 2nd leg of the Bayern game and wondered what the outcome would be when we went 1-0 down against a very good German side.

The fact that we prevailed was down to the courage/commitment of the Manager and players. The fans responded accordingly.

Put another way, if you're going down on the Titanic would you ..... a/ crap yourself and complain or b/ tick the "completely satisfied" smiley face box on the "how do you rate the Captain feedback form".

Adolf Ng
22   Posted 04/01/2011 at 09:11:23

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Ricky, every player has their roles and functions. So, if we regarded ourselves the 12th man(men) on/off the pitch, it means that we should also execute our roles and functions - including BOTH support and criticisms. Although we are not going to Goodison to abuse players, managers or chairman, we are certainly going there to voice our opinions (which is, in my opinion, a very important role of the 12th man). Indeed, in a democracy, why should we blindly support someone/thing which clearly goes wrong?
David S Shaw
23   Posted 04/01/2011 at 10:12:12

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The irony Ricky is that a group of Evertonians approached Everton not that long ago to set up a sort of chanting area for want of a better description.

The club said no. They are not interested in our support only our money through the turnstyles and in the kiosks.

So if anyone is unhappy, don't give them your money.
Denis Richardson
24   Posted 04/01/2011 at 10:38:14

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The team need to give the fans something to sing about, not the other way round. Encouragement is all good and well but if the team is not doing it and importantly the fans dont thing they can/will given moral/tactics etc, then why should they.

The fans have a right to air their views, they are the ones paying after all. If the show is crap, why would/should you applaud?

Reactions from the fans will in the long run affect the management - look accross the park, the RS' game against Bolton had the lowerst attendance for 6 years - their fans are not happy and they are showing it, with the likely result that the manager will change before too long.

It pains me to asy it but we should be taking note of how to properly demonstrate....
Dave Charles
25   Posted 04/01/2011 at 11:06:56

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Rick, fans are like fireworks and need the fuse igniting (i.e. good football) to get us going. At the same time, that firework can fizzle out (i.e. bad football) and that brings a quiet stadium with short tempered fans.

Spurs on Wednesday, and what tactics do you think will be used?. A quick off the block approach and catch Spurs flat footed and pin them most of the game in their half as we are attacking most of the time. Or a wait and see what they do approach before we decide on what to do, and by that time we could 1 or 2 down and no plan 'B', only hoof.

I reckon most of the fans will go for the latter of the two. After nine years, we know him so well.

It was a good piece you put in by the way.
David S Shaw
26   Posted 04/01/2011 at 11:26:55

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I don't agree with the argument that you should only get behind them when the team inspire you to do so.

If the team are doing well why would they need our help or encouragement? It's when they are struggling and lacking confidence they need our help and support.
Chris Fisher
27   Posted 04/01/2011 at 12:21:17

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James Vaughan?
Steve Smith
28   Posted 04/01/2011 at 12:22:08

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"Adolf Ng 22: in a democracy, why should we blindly support someone/thing which clearly goes wrong? " I am assuming you mean a democracy in football? but maybe you mean the country, either way, neither are a democracy, and in particular, football clubs and their supporters. Clubs rely on blind support to a certain degree because there are only ever going to be two or three winners per season, I have been going to GP since 1971, most of that time living in hope rather than expectation, I suspect a lot of supporters are just the same as me in that respect, but we still turn up because when things go right it enhances our everyday lives, and when it goes wrong, it gives us something to moan about, I'm not sure where democracy comes into it.
Jay Woods
29   Posted 04/01/2011 at 13:02:10

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So why should I pay a few hundred pounds to travel to Liverpool (ferry, hotel, etc) to help motivate these millionaires to earn their disgusting salaries? No, I think I'll give it a bye until such times as the club stops taking us for granted and does something about the scandalous season we're having. "It's on?" Yup, relegation that is.
Ricky Rimmer
30   Posted 04/01/2011 at 14:06:11

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Well, my optimism and support of our players seems to be a wasted effort.

If you guys on here could please take one note; It seems the majority of you are intent at 'having a go' and 'expressing your discontent'.

I can see where this situation is going; everytime we get beat people calling for Moyes' head... The same people who for 9 years have sung the same man's name!

This Wednesday, I'm going to Goodison to sing my heart out and urge a win against Spurs! If we don't win, I'll be upset... possibly even annoyed. But I'll be there at the next home game - me and my voice!

Do me and your fellow Evertonians a favour! Bring your optimist heads, and bring your singing voices. Let's not turn Goodison into a ground full of moaning middle-aged men!

ps: If your not prepared to do that, please give your ticket to someone willing to do so!
Steve Higham
31   Posted 04/01/2011 at 14:51:08

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Ricky (#9) ? I find your last post very patronising. I am a season ticket holder and also go away as well. I pay an awful lot of my hard-earned money on Everton and you would class me possibly as middle-aged being 49 years old ? I can assure you I am not a moaner.

I don't need the likes of you to tell me how to support my team.

Phil Bellis
32   Posted 04/01/2011 at 15:04:19

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Ageist bastard!
Michael Evans
33   Posted 04/01/2011 at 15:02:37

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Ricky - " Let's not turn Goodison into a ground full of moaning middle-aged men!"

Are we to perhaps assume that you are not a member of the "Middle-age moaning buggers Club" ?

Still got all your hair ? Full bladder control etc ?

Lucky you.

I suppose I qualify as a "moaning middle-aged man". !'m 47 and saw my first home game beginning of 73/74 season.I've seen some crap Everton players/teams and savoured every minute of the glory 80's years.

Does that make me an "Expert" ... nope far from it.

However, I do have some experience of when a team/manager is in trouble and at the moment I'm very worried. Lots of other "moaning middle aged men" are expressing similar sentiments currently too.


Maybe we're all wrong and everything's fine.

Enjoy the game on Wednesday and I hope your singing voice is in fine fettle.

I'm off for my nap now.

Phil Bellis
34   Posted 04/01/2011 at 15:23:17

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Hey Ricky
You shout all you want mate; hopefully the team and manager will be up for it so you won't be the lone happy chappy in a sea of groaners
You could even do a duet with Phil Neville if you like
Here's a liitle rap thingy you might care to debut on Wed...

"I'm a practical man
I'm an Everton fan
And I like to watch them when I can

I used to sit there discontent
Til I discovered...

Now I can sing and hoot and shout
Without my nashers shootin outa my mouth"

(work in progress, I'm afraid, still...every little helps)
Ricky Rimmer
35   Posted 04/01/2011 at 16:10:01

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Wow! Well, I certainly didn't mean to offend but obviously I have!

I used the middle aged man, as I'd say 75% of Everton fans at the match fall into this bracket. For this reason, and for others (such as children not being able to express their views, and women being reluctant to in a 'man's environment), it is reasonable to suggest that if somebody is moaning at the match, it more likely to be a 'middle-aged man' than anybody else. That does not suggest or imply that every middle-aged man moans in the slightest; I did state let's NOT turn it into a ground full of middle aged men, never once stating that that is what it is! Okay, maybe my point suggested Goodison was full of middle aged men, but this is something I stick by (the majority).

Just to finalise this point, hypothetically imagine everybody at Goodison moaning. If this was the case, I think (due to the abundance of middle aged men at the match), it is reasonable to label it a ground of 'moaning middle aged men', even though they would not be the only 'moaners' present.

I am genuinely sorry if I have offended, but think perhaps people need to give people the benefit of the doubt (although the words used, in my eyes, were clear) instead of getting offended.
Phil Bellis
36   Posted 04/01/2011 at 17:32:10

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Don't worry Ricky, we all turn into our dads
You must admit, though, there are games where the team and fans just get it right, together
Besides the obvious games where we're all up for it, the last derby (a bear-pit from start to finish), the Duncan Man U game, for example, most games at Goodison seem to need a catalyst to get the crowd going - a piece of chasing down, a crunching tackle, a bit of skill, a bad refereeing decision against us
Seems to me it's been that way for a long time, now
Brian Lloyd
37   Posted 04/01/2011 at 17:38:58

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Ricky. I'm a middle-aged man and am not offended in the slightest. I think the main point of your atricle was that the team need us to get behind them from the first whistle and I am sure this will happen tomorrow. It is then up to the players to respond likewise and give us a reason to keep the volume up.

It's hard to keep singing and clapping for 90 minutes if you're constantly being disappointed. Having said that, I feel we may turn up tomorrow as Spurs will come on to us more than most teams at Goodison; I say this more in hope than expectation though.

Steve Wolfe
38   Posted 04/01/2011 at 17:49:51

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You have sympathy for Bill Kenwright, you are proud of the dogs of war, you are proud of us getting to cup final.
Mr Rimmer your Everton is definately not my Everton !
James Martin
39   Posted 04/01/2011 at 17:49:28

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Finally a bit of positivity. Couldn't believe it in the pub watching the Stoke game when everyone cheered when Arteta was subbed off with some even shouting abuse at him. Have we really become as short sighted as that shower across the park? This man's been our best player for about the last 5 years and after a horrifying injury we castigate him for a few months of bad form, same for Jagielka. Obviously we can't make an impact at boardroom level but I think what Ricky is saying is we have no choice we are Evertonians, even if we got relegated we'd still be there at Goodison so how about getting o Spurs backs instead of moaning at the first pass that goes astray. We'll beat Spurs anyway, current form aside we all know we're better than them, we went to white hart lane with half a team and should of won there earlier this season.
Gavin Ramejkis
40   Posted 04/01/2011 at 18:14:59

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James, you've missed the irony behind your points on Arteta and Jagielka. Arteta has been shite this season and the only time he was dropped was enforced, Baines got to take set pieces which all looked considerably better, our last win was without him and Christ how few and far between have they been. Jagielka has played shockingly badly this season and easily outshone by Distin but again won't get dropped, DM admits to playing him injured in the Stoke game in which he lost us the game.

Don't hold your breath expecting an apology for fans and supporters pointing out the obvious to a guy paid £65k a week continually fucking it up big time to the detriment of the results.
Denis Richardson
41   Posted 04/01/2011 at 18:16:14

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James - I would love to share your optimism but I cannot imagine how you can say that we are a better team than spurs right now - take a closer look at their team.

Van der Vaart, Modric, Bale (winger no FB).......the likes of Kranjcar don't even make their bench FFS.

Some of our players (on form) would make their team, but no where near enough to say our overall team is better.

Am trying not to think about the game tomorrow until I see the team sheet.
Ryan Holroyd
42   Posted 04/01/2011 at 19:13:21

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Gavin # 40

Why would Moyes apologise to a no mark like you? Moyes has done more for Everton than me or you or anyone on this website will ever do.

Yeah, Moyes has made many mistakes but actually we are the 15th highest spending team since he came but have more points than any team apart from the big 4.

So give the guy a break.
Gareth Humphreys
43   Posted 04/01/2011 at 19:20:44

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Ricky ? It's the wrong site for optimism matey. Way too many miserable arses on here.
Joe McMahon
44   Posted 04/01/2011 at 19:57:30

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Gareth (43) It's not that at all. Could you see Spurs, Newcastle, Liverpool, or any fans of other clubs accepting 6 defenders always in the starting line up?, accepting our tactics for the West Ham game? Call us miserable if you want. Me - I just want to be proud of my team rather than embarrassed.
Andrew Conroy
45   Posted 04/01/2011 at 20:17:19

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Andrew Conroy
46   Posted 04/01/2011 at 20:20:17

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....I meant to add, that this
'We make this club ? not the players, not the manager ? the fans!' sentiment is desperate albeit well-meaning stuff, Ricky.

Ian's (#1) post is much more like it, and I've got a feeling that tomorrow could be a turning point game for Everton and David Moyes. If he pulls any of his clownish stunts against Spurs- Fellaini up front and neutered; Saha given the benefit of the doubt again; Hibbert/ Neville replacing Jagielka; Bily and Beckford warming the bench until the 92nd minute- I honestly can't see even the hardiest of Moyes fans doing anything other than very vocally letting him know the score.
Charles King
47   Posted 04/01/2011 at 20:32:53

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I'm deffo a middle aged moaner.

My sack hangs so low I have to be careful sitting down, people wonder why I'm always singing "we shall not be moved"

Now that's worth moaning about.
Gavin Ramejkis
48   Posted 04/01/2011 at 20:51:49

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Ryan you know fuck all about me and claim the phrase no mark, it's gobshites like you holding the club back.
Brian Waring
49   Posted 04/01/2011 at 21:02:41

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Ryan, you make it sound like Moyes does the job, through the kindness of his heart. The man gets paid a huge fucking wage to do the job, that huge in fact, it puts him up there with the highest paid managers in the prem, and whilst he's on them huge wages,the club haven't got a pot to piss in.
Kunal Desai
50   Posted 04/01/2011 at 21:11:55

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Guys, come on lets stop getting at one another. At the end of the day we're all Evertonians and we're all suffering the same. What people have to realise whether they disagree or not is that our current situation is alarming and if the ship somehow isn't steadied fast then there is grave danger that we will once again sink firmly in those bottom three positions. That's a concern in itself even if you are a Moyes or Kenwright apologist.
Dave Lynch
51   Posted 04/01/2011 at 21:11:34

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Ryan @ 42.
While he probably wouldn't apologise to a "No mark" (apologies Gav, his words not mine).

He is laughing his bollocks off at knobheads like you, who blindly follow a manager who hasn't got a clue how to put right what's wrong.

10 fucking years and it's come to this, for the money he's on i want it written in blood.
Dave Lynch
52   Posted 04/01/2011 at 21:21:44

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Let's see how you feel at the end of this coming month.

I've got a feeling it's going to be a rocky one.
Tom Collie
53   Posted 04/01/2011 at 22:13:27

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The most amusing thing to me about the likes of Ricky Rimmer is that he can say absolutely nothing in defence of his employers. Moyes is struggling this year and Kenwright's whole tenure has been a joke.

Instead it's blame the dissenters for the cock ups of his bosses and tell us all to be positive and just ignore the whole pantomime. Bill Kenwright would most certainly like us all to be positive, as just now his consistent failures are at long last coming under scrutiny. Finally people are waking up to him and maybe beginning to see that Moyes is just an average manager and not the 'Moyesiah' after all.

Daniel Johnson
54   Posted 04/01/2011 at 22:25:21

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Load of bollocks, 12th man maybe, but when your manager plays an out of form team in the bottom 3 and benches all your strikers, that's really gonna get the expectant fans pumped up for a win isn't it.

Same for Wolves, Stoke and Newcastle at home with the dire/cowardly one up front. As long as we don't get beat we can all go to the pub singing and drink happy.

Just looking at the fucking team sheet lately makes me wanna go and do something else like, go shopping or watch the Mrs Ugly Betty box set.

It's that fucking dire I'm afraid.
Ste Traverse
55   Posted 04/01/2011 at 22:36:41

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I stopped reading the article when he said he had "sympathy for Bill Kenwright". Surely someone who still says that is beyond all help.
James Martin
56   Posted 04/01/2011 at 22:33:31

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Gavin, I don't think there is any irony behind my point. Arteta and Jagielka are playing badly we all recognise that, they shouldn't have played against Stoke yet Moyes did play them probably because of the lack of any other real option. I was just pointing out that we should be better than some of the abuse I've seen and heard given to these players who undoubtedly when on form are the mainstays of our team.
Dave Lynch
57   Posted 04/01/2011 at 22:57:47

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What really gets me is the blind apathy in which some fans accept what is going on.

Why is the current regime acceptable ?

Give me one good reason why i should spend good money and invest my time in watching what is being served up.

I have not missed a home game this season and have attended a couple of aways. But not anymore, enough is enough.
Ryan Holroyd
58   Posted 04/01/2011 at 23:18:25

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Dave, Moyes is the 7th highest paid manager in the PL I believe and has out performed eveyone apart from Wenger in terms of points per pounds spent. If other managers are so much better, how come Moyes has out performed the lot of them?

I suggest Kenwright, Earl and Green are holding the club back more than David Moyes or I have.

So unless Wenger wants the EFC job then I suggest Moyes is the best option available. Despite the very poor season we are currently having.

Kenwright and his cronies are the ones to blame but the sheep will always follow each other and blame the manager.

Twice we finished 5th in the league plus an FA Cup final and no investment was forecomming whilst the likes of Man City and Spurs spent millions upon on millions improving their squad.

The two Spurs supporters (Earl and Green, I wonder iof they will be at Goodison like tomorrow like me) and the man who is in hook to them, Bill Kenwright, are the shithouses killing EFC not a manager who has outperformed nearly manager in the league during the past 8 and a bit years.

Andrew Conroy
59   Posted 05/01/2011 at 00:05:46

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Ryan Holdroyd #58, Yes, Kenwright et al are certainly holding the club back, but to suggest that 'Moyes is the best option available' on the basis of his past record and points-per-pounds- spent is very blinkered indeed.

His record means nothing now. We are in deep fucking shit, in case you hadn't noticed, and what David Moyes does against Spurs tomorrow is of much more concern to me than his record.

If Everton go down I will forever have nothing but contempt for David Moyes, irrespective of the fabulous things he has done for this club. There is absolutely no justification for the situation we are in, and as has been pointed out endlessly Moyes himself said at the start of the season that this was the best squad he's ever had. The 'no money' excuse/ smokescreen is just that: it isn't money that puts 3 strikers on the bench or puts Tony Hibbert in at centre back, or can't think of a world that's 4-4-2.

To return to the original topic of the post- all this 12th man, 'be optimistic' talk takes the toffee mint. I'd just be happy if one man stopped picking injured players; gave up naming teams with no strikers; forgot about sticking with moribund systems that Championship managers regard as being laughably unsophisticated; confiscated Steve Round's fucking clipboard; and stopped taking ages- and I mean absolutely fucking ages to see what everyone else knew months ago, eg Saha= shit, Fellaini is a defensive midfielder, Gueye needs some game time, Bily should be playing behind the striker, and Beckford needs a sodding run of games etc etc etc etc etc etc.
John Daley
60   Posted 05/01/2011 at 01:59:24

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Moyes is the fifth highest paid manager in the league, behind only Ancelotti, Martinez, Wenger and Ferguson. He is paid £3.2M a year. Ferguson is paid £3.6M a year by United. You honestly think we are getting our money's worth there?
Ricky Rimmer
61   Posted 05/01/2011 at 02:19:15

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53. Tom Collie.

I do not have to defend David Moyes, as quite frankly his record speaks for itself.

He has changed Everton from relegation battlers to a side expectant of consistent European football.

It's too late for me to start defending Moyes right now; I have uni work to do... :(

However... I just don't believe the amount of people out there calling for Moyes's head!

If one of them could suggest a better manager who would come to us right now, for a reasonable wage, please please tell me. Oh, and let's not forget to £4/5 million it would take to 'sack' Moyes. Where does that come from....

Plan... Sell Yak for £5m, Sack Moyes! What an idea...

One thing you people don't recognise is that we all have different opinions, and Moyes's opinion is held in much higher regard than any of yours to me.

59 - Andrew Conroy

"stopped taking ages ? and I mean absolutely fucking ages to see what everyone else knew months ago, eg Saha = shit, Fellaini is a defensive midfielder, Gueye needs some game time, Bily should be playing behind the striker, and Beckford needs a sodding run of games."

Personally, I don't think Bily would do much behind the striker. I don't think he'd do much at all. Am I wrong? No, it's my opinion ? it will never be wrong.

So, why do I hold Moyes's opinion in such high regard? Because in the past his opinions of what have been right for the club have taken us places nobody could imagine.
John Daley
62   Posted 05/01/2011 at 02:40:45

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Sorry, that should obviously read 'Mancini', not 'Martinez'!
John Daley
63   Posted 05/01/2011 at 02:56:11

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"So, why do I hold Moyes' opinion in such high regard? Because in the past his opinions of what have been right for the club have took of the places nobody could imagine."

Space? Another galaxy? An alternate dimension? Nope, the Europa League: The Final Frontier. Fuck me. If that's the limits of your imagination I hope your late night Uni work involves purchasing someone else's assignment off the Internet.
Ste Traverse
64   Posted 05/01/2011 at 03:21:01

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Ricky Rimmer. Moyes has taken us to places nobody could imagine? We're Everton lad, not some fucking no-mark club. A few European qualifications is par for the course at best,and he's never delivered a trophy.

Some of worst defeats we've had under Moyes,lowest points tallies and lowest final position under his leadership are things nobody could have imagined.
Ricky Rimmer
65   Posted 05/01/2011 at 03:31:04

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I was referring to taking us to 4th place with the squad we had at the time.

I know we're Everton, but did you really think that squad would finish 4th?
Christopher McCullough
66   Posted 05/01/2011 at 03:29:54

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Moyes's latest remarks on tv and in the guardian epitomise what i've always liked about him. Nil Satis Nisi Opitimum. He's trying his best. The chairman judges that to be good enough. Who's to blame? I know which one works in football for the right reasons.

I'm going to a match shortly. I, for one, won't be shouting abuse at anyone. I may make a 'Kenwright out' placard, for what it's worth.

Otherwise I'll just enjoy the game and sing some songs. Sure why not?
Tom Collie
67   Posted 05/01/2011 at 03:54:16

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Ricky Rimmer, if ever there was a contrived name that's one, or whomsoever you may be.

I reckon you are employed by the club and are trying to deflect justified criticism away from Moyes and, more likely, Kenwright. The 'be positive' crap gives you away.

To tell the truth my biggest regret is the amount of attention your trolling post received, it deserved to be ignored totally.

Crack on Ricky you're great for a laugh.
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
68   Posted 05/01/2011 at 04:04:44

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Tom Collie, your last post on this thread oversteps the line.

Going for the name is a pathetic ploy. For your information, it's consistent with his e.mail, so that is well out of order.

This line that anyone posting positive sentiments must be working for the club might have been slightly humourous the first time... but now, it is simply a pathetic cop-out by you ? exposing your inability to embrace the possibility reality that there are genuine Evertonians fans who think like Ricky does...

He's got your attention, and you've posted too, so more fool you, eh?
John Daley
69   Posted 05/01/2011 at 04:34:13

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"It's the most negative site ever, most of these fans (laugh my fucking arse of) hate everything about Everton, they hate the ground, the chairman, the manager, the team,the ticket sellers everything there a joke."

What utter bollocks. You sound like a child.

To support a club does not mean you must display blind faith in everyone connected to said club and unquestionably accept every action they undertake. No Evertonian 'hates' the club. Some are understandably concerned at the current state the club are in, both on and off the pitch. If they didn't care they wouldn't bother their arse to comment or question the current regime would they?

At the moment there appears to be a greater schism emerging amongst supporters on this site. There are those who long ago lost faith in Kenwright and/or Moyes and believe a change at the top is well overdue. Then there are those who are happy enough for the club to continue on it's current course and believe backing those currently in charge is the better option. Then there's the seemingly drug induced ravings of Richard Dodd.

Everyone has there own opinion on what is going on with Everton at the moment and they are perfectly entitled to air them. Those opinions may differ wildly at times but the one thing everyone who posts on here has in common is that they care about the club. Just because you may have a more positive attitude than some, or are simply more gullible (take your pick), it does not make you a 'better' supporter.
Zack Yusof
70   Posted 05/01/2011 at 06:27:29

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My two cents worth as a longstanding Everton fan (over two decades and counting) if anyone cares...

I've been a staunch Moyes man from the start but recently, some of his tactical decisions have been baffling to say the least. Now i've always defended the guy - on this site, at the game, in the pub - but even the most loyal of support has its boundaries.

I know it's old news this but sorry, it still pisses me off thinking about it. For me, setting out with no strikers against West Ham was completely unacceptable but sadly so typical of some of the strange decisions made this season. I mean, the message that kind of tactic sends out to the fans, the players, the opposition.. and we wonder why there's so much negativity surrounding the club at the moment!

So that was against relegation fodder West Ham. What about rampant Spurs tmr? Back to the good ol' 4-6-0 formation again? I mean, are we Scotland in disguise?!!!

Put it this way.. how many of us can really stand to support a club playing that kind of "don't lose at all cost" type of football week in week out? Myself, i feel like i'm starting to crack and i'm the "cup is half full" type.

Negativity is a cancer and i'm afraid moyes is not doing enough to stop it spreading. So when i see the positve approach adopted by the Blackpools and the Newcastles and the West Broms.. well, it just makes the blood boil.. i mean, what is so wrong with us playing two strikers?!! You want your strikers to improve? Give em some bloody game time then! Beckford scores a last gasp equaliser against chelsea at Stamford Bridge and then is barely featured again since? What going on there?

Confidence - the stuff all players, especially strikers, thrive on - comes from trust but sadly, that seems to be in short supply right now. and I'm sorry but you've really got to look at the manager for that.

As for the Pienaar situation - the man has been one of our best players, he loves the club, he deserves to be on par with the highest paid players at the club so why not offer him parity with the Artetas and the cahill? we can always sell him on next season.. but no, it's the Everton way to do it the way we have done. Good luck spurs, you're going to get a greta player who at 28, still has much to offer. strange how Harry Redknapp can see that but we can't...

Yes, i will be supporting loudly tonight as usual but i tell you this right now, the manager is not making it an easy or pleasurable experience to be on his side this season that's for sure.

Ok rant over. COYB!!!

Richard Dodd
71   Posted 05/01/2011 at 07:58:49

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Any examination of our record during the Moyes regime will show that he has brought consistency of top half finishes and avoided the annual spectre of relegation.I don`t pay much regard to ancient history but apart from spells under Catterick and Kendall Mark 1 ,his record stands comparison with any manager in our total history.
Gavin Ramejkis
72   Posted 05/01/2011 at 08:48:45

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Doddy the season is half gone, wasted, blown, ruined, rubbish, garbage, dross, unchallengeable. It would take a Lazarus type recovery to gain even the remotest sense of pride again never mind anything positive from it. Can you please, with your utter and complete lack of historical knowledge which has rebounded from the crass writing it off to minimal acceptance, keep it out of your pointless propaganda it belittles your comical posts even more. Accepting mediocrity isn't the new Everton way it should never be. The "spectre of relegation" is just three points away Doddy. Those American tanks are driving past your press conference again.........
Phil Bellis
73   Posted 05/01/2011 at 09:24:48

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I couldn't be arsed trawling through the history books to see how well Moyes has done in the distant past. My concern is now and how we are sinking into a relegation battle; fair enough, Doddy?
Steve Smith
74   Posted 05/01/2011 at 10:09:15

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Well said Michael 68.

I have a cunning plan to get me through tonights game lads, first of all, I'm having first goal scorer bets on at least four spurs players, then I'm going to get myself lashed before the game.
Ricky Rimmer
75   Posted 05/01/2011 at 13:39:23

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67 - Tom Collie

Just a quick response to your pathetic, childish comment (even it probably doesn't justify one).

The 'positive crap' is my way of thinking. Believe it or not, some of us do think positive the majority of times, and make the best out of bad situations.

68 - Michael Kenrick

Thanks for the support :)
Tom Collie
76   Posted 05/01/2011 at 15:56:23

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Sincere apology to Ricky and Michael, I was out of order.

Suitably chastened

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
77   Posted 05/01/2011 at 16:06:58

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Man up, Tom, for posting a apology. We could do with more of that from others...
Ricky Rimmer
78   Posted 05/01/2011 at 17:46:40

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Cheers Tom. Appreciated :)
Ricky Rimmer
79   Posted 05/01/2011 at 22:37:37

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Well, I have to say, we almost hit full voice today! Great performance... it's not looking too bad anymore (already), and with easy games to come against Scunthorpe, Liverpool (hahaha) and West Ham, we could turn our season round very quickly. Let's hope so aye blues! In Moyes We Trust?????
Dave Charles
80   Posted 06/01/2011 at 13:29:33

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Well there you go, Ricky, give the fans something to shout about and you will get a response, a postitive one last night. Let's hope it continues, in fact it must continue.

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