I think this is a non starter. Numerous reasons why.

Massive hurdles ((planning etc) to overcome IF Everton wanted to buy the houses of the fans and redevelop Goodison.

Everton have already stated that a commercial partner needs to be involved in a stadium development as they havent got the cash to pay for it themselves. I dont see how this would enable a commercial partner to come in.

If Everton fans buy the houses and Everton turn around and say they are relocating, the value of the property in the area will likely decrease further, thus making it very difficult for people to get their money back.

The club have shown no efforts in this regard, why should the fans risk there hard earned?

One of the stands in most need of redevelopment is across this road from a school.

James, we are not going to move.

No one will fund it, no one will make it happen, the myth of a retail partner is pure and utter crap. Retail is in a spin if you hadn't noticed and the economy is not set to recover for three to five years minimum if we are lucky.

Across the park Henry has already stated that the return on investment in a new stadium is NOT WORTH SPENDING THE MONEY ON.And thats supposed to be the club with a better reach than we have, by far.

No, Goddison is with us for a while and whoever takes on the purchase of the club will NOT be building a new stadium ( unless they have more money than sense)

So lets move on and find a solution to redeveloping Goodison.

James, would the house prices around Goodison decrease if Everton moved location?

I'm no expert but I would have thought the avoidance of matchday would have made the prices increase?

And you would only need one or two residents that refused to move and the redevelopment would be on hold for years. Does anyone remember the two old dears that refused to move from Kemlyn Road that kept the RS tied up for years. In addition there would be lots of property developers who would spot a potential killing buy up some property and hold the club to ransom-all in all not a good idea.

Which is a pity because there is a lot of scope for development; if the club could get its hands on the school and the church together with the van sales garage and Goodison road we wouldn’t have to move.

Christine, I agree but fans buying the houses is a non starter.

Derek. Im no expert either but I would of thought that if the house prices would increase if Goodison were in a better off area of Liverpool for the reasons you give. I would have thought he immediate area is reliant enough on Everton, if they go, businesses will, even less money coming into the microeconomy - thus prices drop.

May be wrong but that was my initial thought.

Well, as others have said it's a non-starter, for a multitude of reasons. Some of the houses on Goodison Road are fitted out as lounges now, and very nice they are too (so much so LFC season ticket holders use them for their home games).

Christine #380, you can't apply what Henry said in relation to our situation. Anfield is way ahead of what Goodison is in terms of corporate facilities - it's not enough for them, and the business case for moving is sketchy.

To blithely state that whoever takes on the club will not look at a new stadium is, again, to presume that anyone interested believes they can make the business case stack-up without such investment, over and above the purchase price being sought.

The more sensible proposal would be the purchase of a plot nearby and the building of new homes for everyone prepared to vacate and dispense with their old homes but it's an all or nothing deal.

The cost of buying a plot and building the new homes would be less expensive than buying each home individually and their would be no exposure to the club until the entire mandate had been granted by all the residents.

I am not sure what this is all about. So you want fans to buy the houses around Goodison......and then what? Sell them to Everton for a profit? Give them away?

What difference will it make having fans in the houses next to Goodison than the people who are already there now? I expect a number of them too will be fans (probably by osmosis with being so near to the Old lady)

I just don't get it....and for that reason I am out.

Tony, I would have thought of it as sort of an Everton Trust owning the houses not individual Evertonians.

How long were the Kemlyn Road sisters there for?

2 points:

1. We don't fill Goodison because we're crap.

2. Fans buy tickets and merchandise nothing else.

There is a perfectly good area for development including the school, garage & a relatively few elderly houses which the council had us believe was imminently available a couple of years ago, up to and including compulsory purchases - when they were opposing a move.
At that time more than a few predicted those offers would disappear if we stayed - and indeed nothing has happened.

Ripping apart a large part of Goodison Road for a football stadium would be easier in some ways as we would not have to move the pitch, but I assume the council would have to approve the change of purpose for the land and CPO it so there is a big risk in going ahead without prior agreement from the council and confidence in their ability to make a good case in the public interest.

Go figure. People have a right to stay in their homes and can stay put unless an independent inspector agrees that they have to move - a football stadium is going to be difficult to justify - unlike the multipart improvement that was proposed in Kirkby.

We need a large site somewhere else if this is going to be done within 10 years.

Barry (392)
I think the idea of moving to a new stadium or rebuilding Goodison would be (IMHO) about improving the facilities and therefore changing the demographic. Specifically the club would be looking to attract more women, more younger fans and maybe more corporates. I'm guessing that the fairly antiquated facilities at GP would not be very appealing to that demographic atm. Better seating, catering, toilet facilities, hospitality suites etc would be part of any upgrade.

Where there is a will, there is a way, if you are negative to the idea, then don't join the group, stay away... don't invest. For those of you who are positive and think we can do something along these lines, even if it's at a later date, then get started already.

We have enough smart Evertonians out there who can help us research the idea or even come in with an alternative plan such as buying what we rent right now — our old training ground and new one...

Fact is Goodison needs to be rebuilt. If Everton actually start doing well again in the next few seasons, the Old Lady will need to be stripped and a new Super Stadium needs to be built — even if it's done in parts. I have some ideas on how this could be done, but not everyone will be happy; not everyone will get a ticket for a home game while the Bullens Road stand is torn down and reconstructed... same with the Park End, Main Stand & Top Balcony, Street End....

We can't do it all at once of course but it can be done. We don't need to buy all the houses around Goodison Park — we just need to restructure the ground! We need to get everyone on the same page here: the owners, the Board, the Supporters, support groups, ex-players etc — and most of all the Liverpool City Council... If we are to redevelope then we need to get something sorted!

We don't need people who say it will never happen — it will if we make it! Think positive take action and it will happen.

Anyone interested in doing something or just has any great input of what we need or how we can make a start or go about it, can write something here or send me mail to my spam email address scratchmymail@gmail.com and just come with the ideas... Please write in the heading "Ideas on how to rebuild Goodison"

Negative people do not need to reply... Go and annoy the reds on their website.. Please!!!

Toffeeweb please keep this topic open...

David may be grasping at straws here but I think, like a lot of Evertonians, he wants to see some practical steps forward. It would be good if the club at least demonstrated that it had some sort of long term plan and not the current "wait and hope strategy". I can accept that we are skint but I cannot see why the club isn't doing some planning on possible options (eg possible new sites with Council or exploring options for upgrade of GP in more detail with architects etc). If I were a potential investor I would be impressed that the club was being proactive.
Crazy talk - I know!

Redevelop Goodison? Now there's an idea!

I'm not sure if time is an issue for problems such as Kemlyn Rd sisters etc. Nothing has been achieved in the last 15 years. I would not be surprised if nothing is achieved in the next 15 years either as we flit to one failed relocation to another. Tortoise and the Hare spring to mind.

It is possible to just need/get away with, only needing the room behind the Bullens, 3 new symmetrical double decker stands flowing round in the image of the Bullens with retained Leitch criss-crosses, while keeping the old Main Stand.

Ok getting carried away maybe, just one new stand at a time. Concetrate first on space behind the Bullens and a new Bullens Road stand, so perhaps the title should be refined to 'buying up the houses behind the Bullens'. Any ideas on the school though?

If it was upto me though. I'd raise the money from sales on the pitch. Just get this stadium issue moving. So what we finish 11th instead of 8th who cares, the player we sell could just as easily get injured anyway so as not to affect our placing payments.

This one is a non starter. Basically Goodison is in the wrong place for a modern stadium - we need proper infrastructure all around for a start to appeal to 24/7 users not just footie matches.

Alex, do you mean somewhere like..erm...let's see, somewhere were there are plenty of parking spaces, good infrastructure, room for a modern stadium in an iconic setting, where funding to help pay for it would be available , where you could lend it to popular beat combos to perform their wretched music.. sorry, mate, the only one I can think of has been taken by some bloody "Echo Arena" or something.

Stop it Ray......I still curse under my breath when I walk passed that arena.

Sorry Tony.

Mind you,it's not all bad, I saw Peter Kay there.

He was almost as funny as Billy Liar with the stories he told...

David, I don't believe this idea is feasible for reasons that have already been mentioned by previous posters.

Having recently returned to the UK for a visit, I was at the West Brom game. Arriving at Goodison Park some 2 hours before kick-off, I took the opportunity to walk around the area in the vicinity of the ground and ponder the question: If I was a billionare, would I be prepared to invest in redeveloping Goodison Park?

Quite honestly, the answer was No; I would move to a site that met the needs and wants of the modern-day game.

Ciaran 395

Out of all the clubs who have new stadia how many have benefited in the way you describe?

I would say only Arsenal and that's a result of having a waiting list based upon Premiership success.

Sunderland and Villa are good comparisons, both old institutions of the game with great support, one has developed the other gone the new build route.

Neither come anywhere near filling the ground both giving tickets away because what happens on the pitch is rubbish.

The stadium question in our predicament is a complete diversion, it would be great to see GP sorted. But in terms of financing it there's no evidence a shiny stadium brings you anything but more bother.

It's not a case of "Build It And They Will Come", it's more of "Play Great Successfull Football And They Will Come" . It doesn't matter how great your stadium is if there is crap on the pitch there'll be no-one there to see it.

You can buy the houses and re-house then tenants somewhere else, it has happened in lots of places in Merseyside (I work in housing). Problem is, that you need land to re-house them to and then need to build the houses to the tenants specification and that in itself is hard work.

It is an option worth looking into though, despite what people say here. We can't afford a new stadium so we have to look at options around Goodison and quickly.

I will probably get shouted down, but I still think we will end up ground sharing with the RS

We will be staying at Goodison Park for a long time yet. All money we have left over has to be spent on new players or the club will die –simple as that.

A couple of things... or three:

Frank, we have tried to re-locate mate and been shot down or had to bow down. In regards to where we might be able to move to... your comment was: "I would move to a site that met the needs and wants of the modern-day game." Okay, Frank, name the sites that are within the city limits that you might think are available for us to move to... Don't mention where we should be now! It's been milked and people are still mad about that today.

Just to note: We are talking about re-building GP – not moving – because, as of yet, nobody can come up with a patch of land that is for sale or that can be leased for the next 1,000 years! Please hold the comments to this subject...

After reading some of the comments here already, I can see most of you are interested in doing something but the few are still coming with negative comments.

Re: Re-building, We will need to restructure the ground! Up, down, out... whatever – that much we know. What we are looking for is the ideas on what you want inside the ground, Hotel? Shops? Executive lounges? (Sponsor windows as I call them, because that's all you see...) TV executive box in any corner... or high up above... Better food outlets, new toilets, better lighting, cheaper in the long run — the list is endless, but let's have some fun. Come with the ideas, let's see what we can come up with...

A successful stadium/arena is not based on gate football income or as a result of the team's performance. Footie only involves approx. 60 hours per annum; the remaining 8700 hours are what produces regular income to support the team.

Yes, I would have loved a Kings Dock arena but it's dead and we need to find somewhere else that would appeal (make money) to a developer. Next best I think would be a ground share – but again, it needs to incorporate other money streams to succeed; eg, one stadium (in South Africa?) offers midnight bungy jumps and other 'Disney' type entertainment as well as the usual apartments, hotels, shops, cinemas etc.

Richard, can you stop being proactive please, everyone has said it's hard work and there are obstacles like planning permission, which we all know we do not have if we moved location. We all want it on a plate, Everton do not like hard work.

Anyway, the major issue is the school. I don't think schools can simply be bought. Offer to incorporate it in the stadium? Rebuild it in Stanley Park? Change it to an Everton free school?

Derek, I had to look it up mate because I though I might be doing something wrong mate so here are the definitions:

Active options : This stance is to play the game , adopt the best practices or do what is normally expected or commonly accepted in your community or sector. Think of the ISO9000 or ISO16000 in quality-assurance circles or the MIL-S in the military. Martin notes that in labor relations, an active stance is what is perceived as fair and reasonable, such as the calls for parity in public-sector negotiations to maintain compensation in line with the private sector.

Proactive options : In Martin's framework, the proactive stance builds on foreknowledge (intelligence) and creativity to anticipate and see the situation (even a conflict or a crisis) as an opportunity, regardless of how threatening or how bad it looks; and to influence the system constructively instead of reacting to it.

The objective is to create an unmatched opportunity and a leading competitive advantage, frequently by doing better (not necessarily more) with less resources. The proactive stance considers the contribution each stakeholder can make to the issue. Even in situations where the issue is irrelevant, the proactive stance is to find ways to benefit from riding on the issue.

Sorry cant help being Pro-active, I am as above...

I am simply asking for ideas! Is that to hard to grasp? What it takes is one thing, but waiting for someone else to do something about it is another.

These same people will be the first to complain if they dont get coloured Bog rolls for example or they cant park their car in a safe place, or they had to wait 20 minutes to get to the loo.... Here is everyones chance to do something about it, and have some sort of input....

Regarding the School I would if possible bring that into the stadium, how cool would that be for the kids? Planning permission is what you go to the council with once you have your plans.... If you dont have a plan then there is no point in going there.... I hope you understand what I was talking about here...

Yes everyone wants it on a plate and Yes Everton have been Twats over the years regarding the ground move.

Just like the last few seasons, they build us up only to be let down time and time again telling us we have no funds... But that doesnt stop us being active! or Pro-active as you called me, I want whats best for Everton FC, but I also want value for money when entering the ground which I have been going to since the late 70`s... it still has obstructed views all around the ground... The toilets and food, dont get me started...

It's time for the supporters to step up...take a shot as this, and if Everton Fc leaders dont like it then they can always leave, or be bought out or even forced out, it all been done before...

We need to get started....sooner or later someone has to take action.... I would love a sit down with the owners or directors of Everton Fc and come with some suggestions on what we can possibly do over the coming years to rebuild our stadium... I will back any action and if need be would even be willing to lead the action... keep the comments coming...

Alex, I have never though of our season based on the hours mate thanks for that! and as you said the rest is what we can bring in based on revenues shirt sales etc...

Regarding ground sharing I myself am all for it, build a super stadium and call it the Merseyside arena.. or Stadium... but I have been told by many Blues and reds alike they would not like the idea... What we want and what we get is two different things as we all know... but wouldn't it be nice to have a say in what we finally do get??? I think rebuilding Goodison is the Only way to go...

41 Gwaldys Street is up for auction for £35 -40K

Goodison must be in one of the lowest house price areas in the UK - surely it would not cost more than a few million to buy up the relevant property. to allow for expansion.

Thanks for the input Malcolm, and I am being told that half of the old pubs, shops and houses around the ground are listed at the same prices... this could get interesting now...

Richard-perhaps the school could be rebuilt on Stanley Park? Weren't the council happy to build on some of Stanley Park for L'pool's stadium? It is an old school though they may be just as proud as their history as we are of ours. Either way, it's a case of dialogue with the school. Give them what they want, pay over the odds.

The house prices are cheap there, The Bullens needs what 20-30 houses?

The cost of one footballer could probably afford to buy up everything!

btw, the proactive comment was a joke

36 houses at £40000? £1.44m

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tab=wl

Nice one Derek, I agree with the park Idea, but it might be better for us if we adjust the angle of the pitch and pull the Park End further back across into the edge of the park, and do an underpass so the traffic can still get through. This way, we wouldn't need to buy all the houses in the Street End, we can simply build inwards as the pitch would be moved forward.

£1.44 million sounds really cheap, doesn't it? Makes you wonder about Everton FC... They should buy them and let the people live there free or very low rent until we are ready to build. I see that as a sound investment.

Now all we need is someone to do a door-to-door around the ground and ask if they would be willing to sell and maybe live there on a free or very low rent until the plans are in order and have been accepted... which could take a couple of years, I know I would sell based on this.

Any Volunteers??? I am working abroad until August otherwise I would do this myself...

I heard we have a good relationship with the school and talks earlier went as follows: they would be willing to move to accommodate Everton as long as it was close by and they got ALL new facilities at their new place. The City Council, however, was another matter...

Keep them coming, everyone should have some input here.

Richard 713.

Just dipped back in – I didn't think that this discussion would still be running.

Basically shirt sales will not do it either – just look at the numbers:

Shirts £40 each – profit (say) £15. Now to make £1M – that's all – and divide by £15 – that is 66,666 shirts to be sold... for only £1 million profit.

No, it maybe depressing but, as I said, we need a new stadium with infrastructure away from Goodison to compete in the future. I wonder about the old motor race track at Aintree? The horserace track already has a train station, bus depot and motorways nearby with all year round conferences etc and has shown that it can cope with crowds of up to 100,000, eg, the Grand National.

Happy to exchange views and disagree though... Know any Billionaires?

I think an ideal site would be the Edge Lane Innovation Park together with the adjacent unused old Littlewoods Pools building which could be integrated as part of a hospitality/office club facility complex.

The transport links are great with two railway stations nearby and sited about a mile from the end of the M62 — plus it's only around the corner from my house.

Richard those 36 houses were all for the ones needed for Bullens Rd. It was a guess by using google map and doubling the size of the current Bullens stand plus road.

I agree over moving the Park End back to allow for a larger Gwladys St.

Just by concentrating on the Bullens then you could have 3 new stands plus the current Main Stand. That would look quite good actually if the 3 new stands flowed around and all looked the same.

The car company is Walton Motors Ltd, we'd probably need to use some of their land.

http://www.waltonmotorsltd.com/index.php

Hi Alex, Nice to see you back, Yes I thought they would have respected my request on here to keep this subject open... but as usual no one listens to us supporters...

Anyway regarding shirt sales, I dont know what the deal was with Kit bag, but apparently we dont market our own stuff anymore so we save on cost.. for that and I was told by someone on another Everton site that we get £3 million off them for letting them sell all the shirts shorts socks etc... Even if your numbers were correct and sold 66,666 shirts, some of us buy for the kids, I know I do...so you have to multiply that number by at least 3, then there are the shorts socks and all the stuff that we sell as well, So I do believe thats it more around £3 million.

I dont think that would do much either but every penny helps as they say...

Regarding the race car track course, Is it big enough? if it is that would be brilliant! although I think the neighbours would have something to say.... Dont want to start a new Kirkby project here if you know what I mean...

But thats something to think about and add to any proposal later down the line...Thanks for the input mate...

Hi Paul, its all about the total size of the ground the actual size of the pitch stadium and outer areas, even with the little-woods building would it be big enough? I am not knocking it, its an idea, I just dont know how big it is total... do you? As you say we have transport in order, easy access in and out of the city another great proposal site... Well done lads, keep em coming...

Yep I got that, Derek, I just mentioned the houses around the ground as an example, but we really don't need to buy all those at the Street End if we get permission to build out at the Park End... as I said, we can build forward instead of backwards when it comes to the Street end.

Regarding Walton Motors, we could add a nice new showroom for him, add him to the building... he can park his extra cars in our car park, although nobody will be able to test drive them on match days unless they are actually in the showroom itself.

Yes, I love the idea of a three-level stand on Bullens Road.... or two then add the Executive Boxes in the middle or on the top.... How cool would that be?

Keep em coming... If ToffeeWeb won't keep this topic open, you can always write to me at scratchmymail@gmail.com — just mention this topic in your heading.

Richard,

Your enthusiasm is to be admired and applauded. Sadly, it does not appear to be shared by the people who really matter in this issue: the club.

Everton have made it abundantly clear for many many years now — and you've got to begrudgingly accept that at least they have been consistent in this: Goodison Park cannot be redeveloped.

Well... it *can* be redeveloped, as brilliant lads like Tom Hughes have demonstrated conclusively... But it won't be, because the club has set themselves firmly against it, in favour of the 'retail-led' bollocks that was Destination Kirkby, and it's yet-to-be-defined successor.

We will keep the topic open, but it will roll off the current mailbag page eventually. Best to set your own bookmark for it as the URL will not change or go away, and post again periodically with a new slant that could engender fresh discussion.

I should update some of our Goodison Park webpages before the summer is out. This could be a new topic, since we've let the whole thing slide a bit (sound familar?) since DK went tits up.

Hi Michael, Thanks for that mate, Yes I know Everton aren`t on board this as of yet, but Like I said not a lot of Supporters are either, they want it all done for them and dont want to take part or just dont give a Sh-te about it until they find themselves confronted with something they didn`t sign up for! or agree with like the bog rolls they are used to at home....etc..

I just wanted to give the subject an injection and looking at the ground being re-done must be Evertons only option right now, unless we win the league, Fa-Cup AND the European Cup over the next 4 seasons and have buyers banging down the door.. nothing else can be done...

Thanks to the lads on your site that have been positive and come with some great ideas just about the Park End and The Bullens Rd alone...I am beginning to grasp the size of the project at hand here...and I am starting to seriously think about getting things started.... I will at some stage need to do A sit down with EFC and have the help of better qualified people than myself to make the points we have put forward on here and the other proposals that I have been thinking about since the dock plan went down the swanny...

Money is the B all and End-all of whatever we are about to do with Everton.... I have a plan as they say... its actually working, and I would like to talk to you lads on here who run the site, plus the other Everton Support Groups and Websites...

At some point in August I hope to home in Liverpool, I hope for the kick off, but If not, I would still like a meet with you all, as you would all love what I am going to show you...the point is we wouldn`t be able to do nothing with the ground right away anyway... it will be a 2 to 3 year plan based on how quickly the Ground can actually get done.. But the bit about the funds needs to be addressed..

I remember someone doing a plan on how the ground could be re-built a couple of years back and the cost, Is that the lad you mentioned up above???
If it is I would love to get in touch with him as well... Can you arrange that for me, use my junk mail scratchmymail@gmail.com and tell him to mention the Everton Plans in the heading....

I would just like to say Thank you once again for any help that you have given and can give me in the near future... and to the Real Everton supporters who are actually interested in doing something for the Grand Old Lady we all love so dearly... I know a lot of people in Liverpool, Influential people who would like to see things get done... But like you said we need EFC on board, I can get them on board but its the supporters that have the real power here, even though most of them dont actually know it, we can make Everton do almost anything...

Re-building Everton should be a priority if there is a high price tag put on Goodison Park and Everton FC... There are several options available to us regarding Goodison Park, but without a plan nothing will happen...

Most of us know what we want for Everton FC and our ground, but we need to come with the ideas and in written form.... once we have that we can start the Re-build Goodison project. Approaching Everton FC, Talking to the council, asking the neighbours if they are interested in our new proposals, what will be in the actual stadium etc... Then how to go about it!

Send me your info if you are interested in being a part of this project! I need all the supporter clubs info, websites that are active for Everton supporters, support groups etc...

I cant do all of this myself of course so I will need the help of everyone and anyone interested...

scratchmymail@gmail.com (remember to write Everton Project in the heading)

Please get back to me with any comments use my email above.... best regards

Richy Styles