The question to the Kuwaiti family that have bought Forest: Why not us?? Were they debt-free?

On a different note, I just watched the interview Kenwright did about Moyes and signing Moutinho. What a joker & bullshiter!

This one seems more strange than usual – not a dodgy leveraged buyout as far as we can tell but a purchase by a cash-rich buyer with an interest in developing a club with a great history. Needs a new stadium, is apparently a long-term investment.

My guess is that they would be a lot cheaper than Everton with a good underdeveloped catchment area (for the top flight) surrounding it – better long-term prospect.

Deary me Thomas, your uncle John would be turning in his grave.

I did a check yesterday; since Kenwright has been in charge of Everton, 17 out of the other 19 Premier League clubs we will face this year have been sold/taken over. Some of them more than once. The two that haven't – Wigan and Fulham – have got rich benefactors who are propping the clubs up, so they don't need new owners. I suspect at least 75% of the Championship clubs have also been bought/taken over since 1999 when Kenwright's True Blue Holdings took over the club.

That doesn't necessarily mean that all takeovers have been a success, but what it does show is that football clubs have been getting sold. Kenwright will run out of excuses eventually. We've heard them all now – the stadium is the reason; sharing a city with Liverpool; the debt; people aren't buying football clubs; etc, etc. Well how come someone has just bought Reading? What did Norwich have that Everton didn't? What about QPR?

Don't get me wrong, I know each of those clubs have their appeal, but what about us? We were the 23rd biggest football brand a few weeks ago. 4th most successful in England. Regular top 8 finishes in the richest league in the world. International profile thanks to American players (Howard and Donovan), Australian (Cahill), England internationals (Baines and Jagielka and even Rodwell recently), Jelavic (Croatia), Heitinga (Holland) etc. What about our youth system?

Don't get me wrong, I am more than aware that we have sold off all our assets, we have debts, our revenue streams are tied up via third-party deals, and we need investment. But why haven't we been sold, when clubs with far less going for them have?

It has to come down to the price, which has never been revealed. I hope the BU can focus on the reasons why we haven't been sold. We need to step up the pressure, because we are already being left behind.

Here's hoping our big names don't get sold while hopefully we can add another free signing if we are lucky – the legacy of Kenwright and Co.

There are things though that will be affecting the sale (I agree mainly the price being asked) but the fact that Forest don't really have any competition within the city, QPR being in London, Reading close(-ish) to London, and others sold for little money and then sold on again and again or relegated.

How many of the 17 teams in next season's Premier League would you want to swap places with? My guess is both Manchesters and Chelsea would be the only ones.

We haven't been sold because of the asking price?? Whatever it may be is so outrageous that even the rich arabs are having a laugh.

I have a feeling it's going to remain like this as long as we stay at Goodison Park. In all fairness, I love the Old Lady but it's a dump compared to the majority of stadiums in the UK. But the cost of relocating is beyond our means and Liverpool won't share a stadium with us. So grin and bear it, folks... and hope that we do something in this pivotal year... or watch all the assets we have relocate to other clubs.

If we managed to finish 4th, we might attract a buyer but no doubt Bill's asking price would sky-rocket. Oh how different it could have been had Collina not given a free out when big Duncan scored against Villarreal.

What did Stoke have that Everton don't when they were bought? Or Swansea?

I realise a lot of clubs that were bought out didn't fare too well, but a lot of them have done well. Swansea, West Brom and Stoke are in the Premier League, which is utopia for them. City have won the league. Clubs like Sunderland are established Premier League clubs.

We need this investment asap, and Kenwright and co don't seem too forthcoming. If we are not careful, this team Moyes has put together will disintegrate, we'll only be able to replace them with freebies.

We've got a safe pair of hands in charge of the team, but we need some movement in the boardroom because Moyesie can only keep this up for so long until it all goes pear-shaped.

Stoke and Swansea were bought by people like Kenwright though Danny, when clearly what we're talking about is much larger scale investment.

This isn't a defence of Kenwright by the way, just stating that the sort of buyer we're looking for is limited to the Chelsea, City, possibly Liverpool, Villa in the early days type — not somebody who comes in and keeps us in the same position.

Don't be too harsh on Blue Bill — after all, he did try to take us to a Tesco car park in Kirkby, didn't he? The problem we have is not just Billy Bullshit but his backers too. It has to be Green and Co who are calling the shots over sale price etc. I mean, no True Blue would lie to the fans and hold would-be buyers to ransom, would they?

It was the death of any ambitions the club had when Kings Dock went belly-up. We all know who was behind that... and that for me is where the real blame for our current terrible mess will always be... Fuck Off, BK, PLEASE!!

This selling saga has gone on long enough, we need to face the facts, Kenwright is holding out for a price of at least 150 million because he has investors or friends that demand they make money on the sale of the club.

One would hope, and I do, that Kenwright will sooner or later get his friends to back down a bit on their evaluation, but that is not going to happen unless there is outside pressure.

I ask again, where is the BU, they need to start reaching Kenwright in what ever way they can.
Protest has been done, but it only sours the clubs image and we are all hurt in the end.
What needs to happen in my thinking is that the BU needs to start fresh with Kenwright, issue an apology and try and move Kenwrights mind, I think Kenwright really loves the club, but he is not wise enough to do what is best for the club.

I am just pointing out that the only way to better the situation is by getting Kenwright on our side, and if Kenwright can move on past his pride or perhaps his friends greed then we are much closer to getting the club sold.

The way the BU goes about things needs to change a bit.
Protest is the very last resort, and if need be then it has to be directed at the whole board, not Kenwright alone.
I see no other realistic way out of this other then to patch things up with Bill and start to nudge him that way.

They can't use the ground as an excuse. Watford have just been bought and you wouldn't exactly say Vicarage Road could rival The Emirates or Old Trafford, would you? No, the reason we haven't been bought is because our chairman tells lies... profusely.

Jimmy, Bill Kenwright is wise enough to do what's best for Bill Kenwright. Why on earth should he sell? He is under no pressure, many supporters think he's one of us. He has a manager who,while worshipping him, also keeps the club in the premier league on the cheap.

The only way to end the status quo would be for Moyes to speak out. He won't...ever. Because he has a job for life, the admiration of the media and his peers, the adulation of a totally incomprehensible amount of Evertonians. A column with the Sunday Times and a job as a pundit. Also, he never need win anything ever.

So, the double act will keep us afloat and be lauded for it. Kenwright lives the dream on the cheap and Moyes makes millions. Our expectations are abysmally low.Tony Marsh, you haven't posted for a while. Is the annual talk of Champions league putting you off?

I've run of patience on this one!!! BK turning out to be a bullshitter, he will bring EFC down along with him. Predecting the future, we need drastic change now or we are in trouble!!!!

Andy Crooks don't worry mate normal service will be resumed in a few weeks. I just hope it's not normal service resuming as regards to early season shite start scenario.

It will be very interesting to see how quickly we are out the traps now we have a proven goal scorer on the books.

Could of done with out the Mancs first up though.See Ya soon

£150 millions. Sultan of Brunei's yacht. Abramvovich is said to have four of the same. EFC? Petty cash to them. And there's a few like them about. So why aren't they queuing up along Goodison Rd to buy us?

Kenwright wants too much dosh for the club, apparently they want about £150 million... messin that Everton board, aren't they!!

We don't need someone with £500 million,even if that would be nice! Someone who could clear the debt woul free up £5 million a year in interest payments. Imagine that,£5 million we could use to strengthen the squad every year??!!
The problem is, if the chairman and his backers are looking for £150 million, this means we are looking for someone with a few hundred million to spare.
If they were only looking for £40 million,which would still be double what they have put in, we would be much more attractive.
I think we all know which one of these is true...

Danny #479 "we'll only be able to replace them with freebies."

Some freebies we can't even afford like Rodallega.

Danny #448 - never heard that one before! I think John was a distant relative a few generations back via his grandad's brother.

The club is now worth more as future income from TV just significantly rose (£30-40 million?) thus the club is more attractive to buyers. Good grief we could buy the club out and cover the costs with the income increase - all we need is a sympathetic loan.

It's getting ridiculous lads – every fricking team has been bought out except for us. I don't know about youse but I'm getting really annoyed watching all these other teams having millions pumped into them and overtaking us. Look at them – Portsmouth, Leicester, Forest, Villa, Birmingham, Blackburn, Liverpool (I'm getting tired typing) – loaded with money and racing ahead of us up the league!

Hold on - what was the original point of this post again? Let's have a reality check here folks. Thinking that some sugar daddy will come along and throw loads of dosh at us for no gain is a bit far fetched. Sure, Checlski and City have had that (just hope the buyers don't ever get bored of their playthings) but most other clubs who have had buyouts have either gone nowhere or gone backwards. Over the last 10 years we have been the best of the rest and outperformed most of them.

Liverpool is a another good example. Lets be frank here – the RS should be one of the biggest clubs in the world based on their support base. Yet, they have had a succession of owners who have completely fucked them over (which is music to my ears) financially and put the club perilously close to bankruptcy.

So, be careful what you wish for, boys & girls.

Thomas #693, this is the fundamental problem we have. BK et al are valuing the club on the basis of being members of the Premier League. Currently the business runs at a loss, with future revenue streams borrowed against, and a low asset base, and significant debt hence it remains an unattractive purchase due to the required investment to get club trading in a sustainable manner.

Having not put any money in since buying the club, with some speculating that the original purchase was put on the debt of the club, on what level is it right for him to demand in excess of £150m for the majority shareholders? Oh, of course, he's a fan, one of us, some will say.

The point is that no buyer will entertain that - they didn't make their money paying over the odds for an opportunity to sink more money in.

And the increased TV money will probably go into the players pockets, again. I don't blame the board for that, they've either got to keep up with the others or go down a different route.

"I don't know about youse but I'm getting really annoyed watching all these other teams having millions pumped into them and overtaking us. Look at them – Portsmouth, Leicester, Forest, Villa, Birmingham, Blackburn, Liverpool (I'm getting tired typing) – loaded with money and racing ahead of us up the league!"

I'm struggling with this comment!

This stadium issue is a red herring!

The folks across the park have said as much. They aren’t redeveloping their ground, they say it’s a waste of money.

If someone came in with megabucks, why would they care that our matchday revenues from corporate hospitality and ticket sales aren’t high enough, it’s just a lazy excuse.

If you took Everton in to the Champions League the upside would pay for redevelopment but ultimately the rich owners just want to play Football Manager.

The fact is Kenwright doesn’t want to sell.. Accept it. We’ve got right down to best and final offers with potential partners and then it’s fallen down.. That’s nothing to do with a stadium, it was there when they made the offer, it’s got nothing to do with debt – that would be the first thing on the agenda.. Bill has pulled the plug effectively by making ridiculous demands.

Or not revealing the extent of debts/problems until the last minute..

Either way we're stuck with him.

We don't know half the story folks, it's obvious we are in much greater trouble than we think: any club that sells Finch Farm and rents it back for £1.5 million a year has issues. The list goes on... Goodison is a dump, Kitbag deal a joke, food has been out-scourced. We have all the hallmarks of being another Rangers. No business man will touch us.

Bill is working 24-7 eh... god help us if he was only doing it part time then!

The stadium is no red herring. Across the park their revenue streams from international merchandising make up for the limited stadium, but, to make more they need to get more out of their ground on matchdays. Their corporates offering is as pitiful as ours and its a big miss given their brand. They will be doing something to address that.

We dont have the international merchandising and dont even, historically, do all that well out of local merchandising. The stadium, and matchday income, is more important for us than them because of that. Simply put unless we can suddenly get half of China or the US to start buying Everton branded tat the only thing we can do to raise more income is go for the corporate entertainment, prawn sarnie, market...for that we need the facilities to compete with the current city centre venues.

The reason these lower league clubs get the attention is that the cost to get a return on them is hugely lower than us. Spend a few mill getting Watford into the prem and the TV money returns get you a profit right out of the gate.

For us the cost to take us up to the next level means the kind of investment to get us REGULARLY challenging for top-4 honours against clubs with far better revenue streams than us either because they have dubious sponsorships like Spurs, are in single club cities like Newcastle or are owned by the deepest of pockets.

The price tag slapped on the club is the biggest irrelevance going - the bottom line is that we need heavy investment (even just to meet any kind of a substantially bigger wage bill) with the only likely return being perhaps a yearly chance at Champs League revenue against very tough competition. For someone with emotive ties to the club maybe you gamble your money...if you have no ties though why would you even consider it....even if the club was offered to you free?!.

Steve Jones #751

Interesting post.

If Everton were for sale for £1m, do you think that someone would take a punt on us?

Drew #712

Let me assure you LFC are going to redevelop Anfield even though they have said in the past that it wasn’t feasible. They’re buying up the properties as we speak and I’ve seen what they plan to do.

Fans not knowing what’s happening in the city, not knowing the political will of the Mayor and the Council is one thing as it actually doesn’t matter that much, but a couple of weeks ago we had club officials making fools of our club by talking about a shared stadium that is never going to happen. At the drop of a hat they’ll talk about the need for a new stadium along the lines of the Kirkby project which never actually provided a penny towards its cost; I find the whole thing embarrassing to be honest.

The reality is we have club officials not knowing the political landscape and talking rubbish to mask the inability of this board to address the stadium issue and more importantly the sale of the club to a person or organization who can take the club forward tells you everything you need to know.

I understand that BarCap, Rothschilds, Inner Circle and others are searching for a new owner with little success. Imagine if we went bust tomorrow, do you not think that they’d be a queue around the block of people wanting to pick-up the pieces AT THE RIGHT PRICE? I do as the problem preventing the sale would have been removed.

Once the incumbents realise that they’re not automatically entitled to a ROI, that they’ve failed to invest a single penny to enhance their investment; that they’ve devalued the club over the last twelve years and that this is what prospective buyers are discovering when they look at Everton today then we’ll see some movement on the sale front. Of course the danger then is who they’ll sell it to, let’s face it they fuck-up everything they touch!

On a separate note, Michael Owen ffs...tells you all you need to know. We're like a high street charity shop.

I'd buy it for a £1m and it would leave us exactly where we are now.I could probably get most the money together but that is the lot

Ken Bates bought Chelsea for a £1 before now - because he took on the debts of £1,5m. Bearings Bank was bought by ING for a £1 and BMW sold Rover for £10

Steve has it right. It is not the cost of the club - but the cost of improving the club. Perhaps David Moyes is the problem (tongue now in cheek). If he was sacked, we got relegated, then we could get new owners in to take us up to where we are now. It is the cost of getting us to the Champions League every year and the tail spin for the years following when we didn't (don't you agree Mr Risdale).

Phil #765,

That is my point precisely. There would be a queue of people willing to take a punt on the club at £1m.

Therefore, the ONLY logical conclusion that you can draw from that is that the fair value of the shares is somewhere between current asking price and £1m. i.e., the asset is overpriced.

What other reason is there for an asset being 'on the market' for a decade and not being sold?

Sure, the cost of redevelopment and the money needed to be spent on players are costs that diminish an acquirer's return on investment but they are will just be factored into the offer price.

e.g., I value a business at £100m. I later find out that I need to spend £15m after acquisition to replace some machinery. I just reduce my offer to £85m.

This isn't happening at Everton at the moment. It can't be, else we would have been sold by now.

Why would anybody want to buy Everton?

This whole discussion means nothing unless that basic question is answered. And even then, the motives of someone who might come forward to acquire the club - a Shinawara for instance - might fall well outside anybody's business model.

Steve, Colin,

You missed my point.. While if the current owners were to stay in charge matchday revenues would be important however if Sheik En Vaq takes over, the piddly difference between 10 executive boxes and 20 or 40,000 supporters and 50,000 wouldn't be the be all and end all of the deal - besides they would know the draw backs of the stadium before they entered negotiations.. if we believe what we read negotiations have gotten pretty advanced on a couple of occassions when the prospective buyers have pulled the plug.

Colin and Phil show the problem perfectly with whats written above. Phil said he'd take the club on for a mill....and expect to do nothing further with it but carry on running the club in the same manner as now...Colin said there would be queue for people sifting through the shrapnel of a post-collapse Everton just as we have done from the Rangers trainwreck. Both have accurately identified that getting someone to take the club on is not the issue....finding someone to take the club on and improve it is!.

Richard the issue isnt just a case of lowering the asking price to accommodate the costs needed to develop the asset. Once you have factored in the need to take on the debt liability, add enough to the playing squad to be competitive at the level needed to be realistic contenders for 3-4th spots and, at very least, redevelop the stadium to add the facilities it currently lacks (in order to add something towards the additional £10mn odd on the wage bill to cover the higher quality squad) you are either at zero or well into minus numbers from the original 'asking price'. This is what I mean by a 'cost to develop' being the overriding problem. Because of where we are at, just off the top slots and having been starved of resources put in to infrastructure for so long, we need so much more to develop than other teams. The nearest example you could get would be, I guess, Aston Villa. Their billionaire tried to take a 'nearly-there' club the last mile and look at what happened.

Like Ciaran said before getting what you wish for sometimes doesnt quite work out as expected.

All good points Steve.

Probably why Kenwright is looking for "investment" rather than a buyer.

Wants someone to risk maybe 10-20m on the field to take us over the edge rather than to buy something which ultlimately isn't worth buying.

Steve #782,

So, you what you've concluded is that the value you'd need to acquire the club at in order to make a return is <£1?

So surely, this yet further evidence that the asking price is too high? Assuming it is higher than £1.

Are you really trying to tell us that it is impossible to make any money on Everton. This is a business that, until 24 mths ago was generating EBITDA of c.£5m.

All of the issues you've listed: Debt, post-acq spend on stadium, capital outlay on players etc would merely be fed into a cash flow model used to value the net worth of the business. This would be the driver of value.

Can you also explain why the acquirer would 'take on the debt liability'? Again, this would be netted from the purchase price since it's how the vendor's have chosen to fund the asset (they could have chosen equity after all).

You wouldn't ask someone to buy your house and take on your mortgage would you?

You have to say Colin is consistent. Throws in a comment designed to establish his credentials that he knows better than everyone else, he has an inside track on what is going on and then relaunches into attacks on the board/long dead stadium projects etc.

He is one of those I think would love to see the club collapse like Rangers just so he could tell all of us blind apathetic simpletons 'I told you so'.

Aren't we all still waiting for the 'things that were definitely happening that should lead to a buyout' starting just after New Year 2012 (one of the reasons we were informed BU stopped marching). The Football quarter 'Watch this space loads are interested in investing' in early 2011, or was that 2010?

Not criticising Colin, just getting rather tired of it all.

Still waiting too.

Thomas, you're apparently not criticising Colin but suggest he would like to see the club "collapse like Rangers". An unfair comment.

Thomas Lennon (801) - on Colin you say..

"He is one of those I think would love to see the club collapse like Rangers just so he could tell all of us blind apathetic simpletons 'I told you so'"

This definitely makes you look like a blind apathetic simpleton.

(if you're really REALLY 'tired of it', don't fucking read it)

It's funny, we don't get worked up at the idea that Usain bolt can run faster.

Or that Donald Trump is richer.

Or Einstein smarter

But re Everton, the possibility that there could be someone better informed or just plain smarter, is just a none-starter for some.

"So, you what you've concluded is that the value you'd need to acquire the club at in order to make a return is <£1?"

In a manner of speaking. I think that the amount of investment needed to develop the club further would far outstrip any concept of valuation for the club of the level that is speculated on here.

"So surely, this yet further evidence that the asking price is too high? Assuming it is higher than £1."

Of course not...the asking price is an utter irrelevance...if you dont want to buy something why would you ask its price?.

"Are you really trying to tell us that it is impossible to make any money on Everton. This is a business that, until 24 mths ago was generating EBITDA of c.£5m."

Yes without further investment...significant further investment...it is impossible to make money from Everton Football Club...in the sense of developing it as a club in the way that the fanbase would welcome. 24 months ago we were making 5mn a year but the costs in the game spiral at a ridiculous rate. £5mn is chicken feed and the next round of pay hikes can wipe that out in a season. Unless we wage cap...but then we limit the quality of the playing squad and the point was to compete at top-4 level to get assured CL revenue back in wasnt it?. Right now we see a crazy new TV deal about to pump more money into the Prem and kick off the next round of money grubbing from players and agents. As long as costs outstrip revenue generation we're always on a loser with limited facilities and a fanbase that generally isnt that affluent.

"Can you also explain why the acquirer would 'take on the debt liability'? Again, this would be netted from the purchase price since it's how the vendor's have chosen to fund the asset (they could have chosen equity after all)."

Reduce the upfront outlay. The asset is already securing the debt - I'd expect someone coming in to buy my house to use a mortgage to do so, one, also secured on the asset. Maybe the notional 'they' dont need to do so but adding another £40mn or so of long term debt to be paid off is only going to make the club less desirable and further encourage a buyer to look for a team with better cost-to-develop qualities...as has been happening.

Steve Jones

You're tieing yourself in knots again , "in a manner of speaking" you admit the place is worth less than a quid then say nobody is interested because of the other stuff. Your theory is they'll have a good look at every factor about the clubs finance decide it's a dead duck and walk away without even looking at the price - it's an "irrelevance".

REALLY!!

On that basis if Bill goes on SKY tomorrow saying he's giving the place away gratis, nobody will show up - it's just nonsense. The decision on buying any business is the same "how much outlay do I need to get what I want out of it?" (which is not always direct profit btw) the asking price is part and parcel saying otherwise is absolute rubbish.

It is likely that maybe one of these clubs will attract Moyes, Forest maybe. The transfer fund will probably be high and if Moyes does go he could take our best with him. Offering larger wages and one season in the championship is not too bad a thing really.

Barry

No knots and your point is already answered a few posts up "getting someone to take the club on is not the issue....finding someone to take the club on and improve it is!"

Even if the shares went on sale tomorrow at £1 for the lot the club would still need the kind of investment, to take us up to the next level, that makes it the near impossible sale Colin reports.

How do we find the extra £10-15mn a season in revenue to pay for the wages of the 4 or 5 real quality additions we'd need to make to provide the strength and depth in the playing squad to lift us to the top table and, most importantly, keep us there?. The only answer is major investment in the clubs facilities and a hope for some heavy sponsorship brought in by notional new owners.

The cost to develop is still a £100mn+ to take us on, square debts, invest sufficiently in the team for that level of success and develop the new revenue streams to have a hope at supporting it all in a sustainable fashion. The board tacking on a £100mn+ sticker price on top of that as their return, as so often alluded to on here, just turns an unattractive deal into a ludicrous one when the unattractive deal alone was enough to send buyers elsewhere in the first place.

Still I can tell that sort of view isnt what you want to hear or believe...you have your scapegoat all lined up and are happy with that as it means, when we are finally rid of him, everything will be all better. I think Colins' little remark about the responsibility of the board to get the right quality of people in to replace them is very telling on that score. Anyway I've made all the points I'm going to so I hope you are happy in your delusion mate, genuinely, I know it comforts a lot of Evertonians that salvation is just an exiled Kenwright away!.

Was reading Pompey's wiki yesterday. They've had plenty of changes of ownership. Sometimes it's even resulted in the club going on a pending spree. They've now got 8 senior players left and have to get rid of them ASAP.

Are we wishing it was us?

Is there any truth that Mansoor looked at us? Kenwright said in his interview with the blue union that if it had been the right time, at the right place, it could have been us what did mean by that? Does anyone know? was it the exclusivity agreement, I wonder!!

Steve

It's not news we need a LOT of money your assertion that the price is an "irrelevance" was, but I see the penny has dropped, during your diversionary ramble you comment:

"The board tacking on a £100mn+ sticker price on top of that as their return, as so often alluded to on here, just turns an unattractive deal into a ludicrous one"

Whereas if the price was right it might become attractive!!! now don't throw your "young marketeers monthly" out the window in a strop it's just the flip side.

Either way the word "irrelevance" does not apply.

Drew #776, Sheik En Vaq, or his cousin, Sheik Rattle N Roll, aren't interested in Everton right now as despite what's going on in the middle east, they're not interest in a construction job, but a vanity project.

Start a whip round, get the board roundly whipped into selling at a reasonable price, and pump in your £300m, you'll double it in 5 years by selling to a sovereign wealth fund. Maybe.

Thomas #801

An absolutely pathetic post which I’m glad to see people have seen through. I have no need to establish my credentials with anyone.

You clearly feel inferior, that’s your problem, you’re tired of listening to the truth, go seek some help, I believe anti-depressants are marvellous these days.

As for the content of your post I’m unaware that the BU stopped marching because of a potential buyout, I am aware that Everton claimed to have engaged a specific professional / specialist in sports business disposal, named in my earlier post, which was the only proposal ever made by The Blue Union and I’m increasingly aware that nothing has happened, despite Inner Circle now apparently being joined by just about everyone that matters, which makes me and many others curious, which you tend to be when dealing with people who have a proven track record of misleading their fans and small shareholders.

I’m aware that loads has happened, is happening, over the FQ, I was at a two hour meeting only last night and whilst the mayor, the council, Liverpool Vision, LEP and LFC are helping themselves, through embracing the concept, Everton’s latest pathetic response to the council is......

“If it is to become a tourist attraction it NEEDS TO MOVE or CHANGE DRAMATICALLY. The current experience is not good and a football destination brand could not work now”

Change dramatically? Talk about stating the bleedin’ obvious. It needs to move? Yeah that’s right, needs to move when LFC are staying at Anfield; that will make a Football Quarter. This is why Everton has been laughed at in our city for over a decade; they have a constant need to talk bollocks to cover up the fact that this board don’t want to do anything to improve their business. Instead of doing something tangible, something analogous to what is happening over the park, we like to talk about non-existent locations for non-existent “retail enabled” projects funded by non-existent parties; in other words do nothing.

You’re tired? I’m tired of amateurs and bullshitters running OUR football club and I’m tired of our apathetic fans who need to be given the answer to two plus two.

Drew #776 Sorry fella, I didn’t miss your point, I should have used a paragraph after the Liverpool thing; just wanted to point out that LFC are redeveloping.

The whole new stadium thing is very misleading, you’ve pointed out that they, a new stadium, actually don’t make that much of a difference; packed to the rafters at every game Kirkby was only going to deliver an additional £6m contribution a season.

This guy here dispels the myths about new stadia, particularly these “enabling developments” and who they really favour. He’s Dr. John Beech and his four part expose can be found below, with links to the other sections in the comments section.

http://footballmanagement.wordpress.com/2010/06/27/the-trouble-with-new-stadiums-1/

Of course we could just talk about whether we should be wearing blue socks or white socks; I’m certain some people would prefer that, others apparently are tired of what we actually talk about on TW!!!!!!!

Moyes said he was glad Everton was run solid, and that we will not end up like Rangers.
We are not that solid, in fact we run a yearly loss of almost 10 million now.
How is that solid?
Come to think of it, only after Moyes took over has our spending got out of control, we are now paying that price of that spending.

Buying Yakubu for 11.25 million and then selling him for a loss of 10 million. How are we going to get that money back?

We can not accept that kind of loss on players here at Everton, we just can not afford it, we are going to end up selling players no matter what to not go under.
I just think it is too early to be jolly about this season.

Pienaar is going to cost million, we do not have that money.
One of our top players has to be sold if we are to get Pienaar back.
If someone thinks we have 5 million just laying around then you will be in for a shock.
For me Baines is the one player we MUST keep at any price, other then that I say sell who you want.
We have already gotten rid of players that were part of the last 10 years.
Players like Yakubu, Arteta, Lescott, Rooney, and Pienaar, players that were very much part of our sucess.

So until the season starts I am going to hold off on being jolly until I know there IS something to be jolly about.

I'd have bought Watford and Forest and for the sam reason that the current buyers did it. They are low cost and have the potential to be developed and eventually sold at a profit. Everton on the other hand are an expensive basket case with no potential for development to operate or be sold at a profit. That's why we haven't been sold

Barry,

Still not getting it?. OK simpler....

If no-one will pay the large sums required to take us to the next level without any concept of guaranteed return why would they be in the slightest bit bothered whether the board adds £100mn or £500mn on top for themselves?. The buyer is already looking for something they can develop cheaper before that even comes into it.

The boards 'sticker price' is exactly an irrelevance as the cost-to-develop is the thing that makes the business undesirable in the first place.

The only way that the club can suddenly become attractive, as you seem to believe could happen, is that we start getting regular group stage Champions League revenues. On a wage bill of £55mn that will happen when the catering in Goodison can be based on 5 loaves and 2 fishes!.

Can I recommend a subscription to Young Marketeers Monthly to you...might be good for you to broaden your frame of reference?.

Jimmy, take off your anti-Moyes glasses for a minute. Which manager hasnt some bad spends? didnt we make an almost 20mil profit on Lescott? sold Mcfadden for over a 4million profit? Arteta? Beckford? even Johnson was sold at a profit. Moyes' net spend is not far off the 2million mark at Everton, with which he has transformed the club from relegation fodder to european challengers. Of all the criticism to throw at Moyes...don't refer to one which can be so easily negated as his transfer record.

Steve 923

I tend to agree that the ability for a new owner is to have the resources to be able to take the club forward, is the most important point. The club is losing on average £5 million a year, so any new owner would need to be able to turn that around and provide the manager with funds to develop the playing staff.

Liverpools owners bought the club for £230 million, and then pumped in around £100 million on players, and whether by bad buys or bad management far from getting into a Champions league position ended below us. So they have spent a third of a billion and went backwards, will be interesting to see what budjet Rodgers gets. Because whether we like it or not to get into a Champions league place year on year, then huge sums have to be spent with only a few clubs able to finance it. Although apart from Arsenal the other Champions league places are taken by clubs losing millions each year. Will be interesting to see if the new financial measures that come into play will stop Chelsea and Man City spending millions more than their clubs generate from income, as it was designed to do.

We can debate if it is the asking price is to high, or the need for a new ground that is stoping potential buyers. But what we cant deny is that to move us to the next level, which initially means qualifying for the Europa league every year then they will have to look at maybe spending £25 million more than the club currently earn from all its revenue streams. So someone with very deep pockets is needed.

Err Martin we are expensive because of the price Your Bill Kenwright is asking for.

Expensive even without the price his Bill Kenwright is asking for Richard. Thats the problem.

Jim Knightley, the record of David Moyes in the transfer market stands up to any scrutiny. In fact, in my view the Kroldrup disaster showed Moyes at his best. Make a mistake, admit it and deal with it. There are many reasons to criticise Moyes but this is not one of them.

It is the start of the 2012 season. I would like to buy Everton. What's that, I would have to spend at least 200m right now just to:
1. buy the club
2. clear all the bank debts
3. buy back the training ground and tv revenue
4. buy back control of the merchandising and catering
5. modernise the existing ground
6. or build a new stadium, including the hassle of planning permission, convincing the fans and wating for the stadium to actually be built.

I will also have to spend loads of time and effort winning over fans, the local press, the local council, the planning office, all the while putting up with LFC having a better relationship with the same local media, council and planning office.

Then, I would need to spend 100m plus on over the odds prices for players over the next two or three transfer windows. This is because I've already spent the cash above and everyone thinks they can take the piss with their asking prices. This is also so that I can build a squad capable of reaching the champion's league to begin with.

Then I have to increase the existing wage bill by 300%, add players every season at over the odds prices, pay agents, signing on fees and increased player insurence.

Then, I have to hope that we consistantly play champion's league football, all our league matches and several domestic cup runs all the way to the finals to capacity crowds for the next four or five seasons at least. This is so that I will raise loads of extra cash through sponsorship and merchandising as well as the cash raised from the start of this paragraph. This is just so the club I have just bought can keep itself ticking over, pay for all extra expense mentioned above, meet the new fair play rules and also pay me an annual profit. As part of this, I may also have to take the risk of pissing all the fans off by increasing ticket prices by forty or fifty percent to also help pay for all the extra expense.

Then maybe, by 2020 or 2022 I will have broken even, maybe.
What's that, I can buy a championship club for 10m and spend no more than another 20m to reach the premiereship. My money back in three to five seasons with interest. Everton, thanks but no thanks.

Kieran, and Matt - sums it up for me. Who would want to buy Everton? Not a businessman (or woman), so it has to be someone who wants a vanity project', or wants to launder their appropriations. Abramovich seems to qualify on both counts, but he preferred the King's Road to Goodison Road - better chip shops.

So our best hope seems to be that Vladamir Putin realises that Tony Hibbert is his long lost twin brother and and makes us an offer we can't refuse.

And Bill could make a musical out of that.

Steve, BK has fucked up the commercial aspect of the business good and proper and tied it into really poor deals which would also be a blow to a serious takeover as they would need to be addressed and ideally bought out of with the subsequent financial penalties. Billy Bullshitter has a long line of commercial astute fuck ups, the Bear Stearns one will be running for decades as will Finch Farm. They would all stick out like a sore thumb come due dilligence, that's if a buyer went that far after urinating themselves when told the asking price.

Gavin, very good point about being tied into very poor deals. If it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to buy them out then any potential buyer of the club would have to accpet them as part of any purchase of the club.

Keith, I didn't look at it as a vanity project when I typed the comment above. For the club to be a vanity project, there would still have to be a certain amount of attractiveness in place to bring the buyers in. Man City had what was a brand spanking new ground. While it was built for the commonwealth games, which means that it's didn't have that level of corporate box, it would still have huge potential for that type of revenue stream. The fact that it was a large, new stadium and that City were only paying 4m a year to rent it, would have counted for a lot in terms of attracting vanity project type purchasers.

Well if Bill lowers what he wants then that is the acid test Steve surely!!

Gavin yep agree with everything you say there. To me its still irrelevant though. The club has to offer something in the first place to draw the interest. Its only after someone decides that there is something to be had from Everton that a closer look at asking prices and screwed up incumbent contracts would be necessary.

I think there is general agreement that whatever else that draw will be for someone interested in EFC it will not be the promise of financial gain. This covers most of the reasons so many clubs have been taken over and not us which was the OP's original question.

Richard #000

Maybe so. Problem is that making it known the club is available for a song would open the floodgates for the Kenwright-style wannabe's and those looking to make a fast return on a leveraged position by flogging off a few of our quality players.

As Colin so rightly pointed out, reinforced by Gavins commentary, the currents boards track record does not inspire confidence that they would get wise to every chancer or dreamer that rocks up.

An investor wouldn't necessarily need megabucks to add value to the club. Wiping out the debt would transform us from a loss-making business to one that breaks even. An extra tier on the Park End would bring in more punters and increase matchday revenue. Two small measures which would improve the value of the club for any potential investor.

It would obviously take a rich person to do this, but we don't necessarily need a multi-billionaire, like Kenwright alludes to. Just someone with enough cash to steady the ship,then create a sustainable plan for the coming years.

Kenwright out.

Kieran - if you're still there - what I was alluding to was that 'vanity projects' are as likely as not launched by robber barons, rather than business people. Donald Trump Golf World - or whatever - in windswept Scotland (watch the hair) has vanity written all over it, but is designed to make money. Hence watch out MU and RS. They're not there to do you any favours.

Abramovich is a winner - for the moment - in a kleptocracy. He has moved his money as far away from the Kremlin as he can, including a club in London, west at that.

City, Shinawara, then the Sheiks of Araby - no doubt, the Commonwealth Games new shiny stadium did it. The sheiks driven up to old Maine Road would have had exactly the same reaction had they been taken to Goodison Rd - and who knows?, they may have been. No way.

Pornographers can own football clubs. When it comes to 'fit and proper person' stuff I would personally rule out the owners of both Chelsea and M City. But that's not the way this world works.

Anyone following the FIFA/Havelange/Blatter story? That's the way the world works.

Danny,

There's truth in what you wrote there those steps could be taken and would, doubtless, help. It illustrates the problem as well as anything on this thread though...wiping out the long term debt and adding another tier to the Park End would have to come in around the £70mn mark.

Thats £70mn invested upfront for a return of a few million a year in and another couple off new facilities in the Park End. It would be a decade until the investment paid itself off and put anything new in the pot. It does nothing to take us to that next level (where the CL money is) either which would have to be the big attraction for a new owner. That 70mn would generate enough new revenue to cover maybe three new, quality player, salaries ultimately and thats it.

This is the basic problem we face... the criminal mismanagement of the club by the inept in the boardroom surely hasnt helped, but, we are at a place where a lot of money is needed to move us a little distance. For a vanity purchase we are a very niche commodity in the marketplace and it appears the fashion is to take on a lesser club and try to get it to our level...ironically maybe as Moyes has shown it is possible on a shoestring budget!.

Noel #465 "I have a feeling it's going to remain like this as long as we stay at Goodison Park."

But if the board put the amount of money into redeveloping Goodison that they would have had to stump up for the cowshed in Kirkby then we would be a much more attractive purchase.

But Bill's 'friends' wouldn't get anything out of it so it's a non-starter.

Thomas #693 "The club is now worth more as future income from TV just significantly rose (£30-40 million?) thus the club is more attractive to buyers"

Only if the board have not borrowed against it, and what chance is there of that happening?

Ciaran #698, it's not the RS owners that have fucked them over, it's been their last 2 managers. G&H andFWS both put a lot of money into them only for Beneathus and Dogleash to waste it.

Colin Fitzpatrick "and I’m tired of our apathetic fans who need to be given the answer to two plus two. "

This is your problem mate. The majority of Everton fans know the situation but most of them, far from being apathetic would rather not take part in a pathetic spectacle like shouting insults to the chairman through a car park fence, like secretly taping a
Meeting with him, thus destroying any chance of having an ongoing
dialgoue, like dressing someone as a clown to deliver a cake and so on. These "stunts" are ultimately counter-productive to acheiving the desired outcome. So is alienating fellow fans with an evangelical zeal of "your either with me or you are wih the devil"

When

Colin Fitzpatrick "and I’m tired of our apathetic fans who need to be given the answer to two plus two. "

This is your problem mate. The majority of Everton fans know the situation but most of them, far from being apathetic would rather not take part in a pathetic spectacle like shouting insults to the chairman through a car park fence, like secretly taping a
Meeting with him, thus destroying any chance of having an ongoing
dialgoue, like dressing someone as a clown to deliver a cake and so on. These "stunts" are ultimately counter-productive to acheiving the desired outcome. So is alienating fellow fans with an evangelical zeal of "your either with me or you are wih the devil"

When

Richard@932 We are expensive at any price over zero. My Kenwright??

Steve #878 "The cost to develop is still a £100mn+ to take us on, square debts, invest sufficiently in the team for that level of success and develop the new revenue streams to have a hope at supporting it all in a sustainable fashion. The board tacking on a £100mn+ sticker price on top of that as their return, as so often alluded to on here, just turns an unattractive deal into a ludicrous one when the unattractive deal alone was enough to send buyers elsewhere in the first place."

So you are actually agreeing that the obstacle to a sale is the board and the price theyare asking.

Chris (#071) Kenwright destroyed all chance of dialogue a long time ago, by banning the AGM'S.

Kieran #990, it may be difficult to buy your way out of poor marketing deals due to contract penalties for doing so.

And as for the lack of coirporate boxes at the ground that held the Commonwealth Games there would be lots of sponsor boxes, VIP delegate boxes (for each nation) and media boxes (again for each nation). All which can be used for corporate hospitality post games.

Sorry Martin, I see where you are coming from now

Eric #076

Not sure how you can get from the sentence:

"The board tacking on a £100mn+ sticker price on top of that as their return, as so often alluded to on here, just turns an unattractive deal into a ludicrous one when the unattractive deal alone was enough to send buyers elsewhere in the first place"

...to the belief that I'm saying the board and their demands are the obstacle to the sale?.

I'm saying that the board and their asking price are an irrelevance - the interest in us stops before it gets to them. The amateur fart-arsing way they've handled the club has put us in the position we are in that much is glaringly obvious. If they vanished tomorrow though the same factors that are preventing a sale now would still be there.

To make us into regular Champs League contenders will just cost too much for a buyer who isnt an oil sheikh or a biznizman with a dodgy East European accent and it seems there just aren't as many of them as there used to be.

Because Steve, if you think that the Club is beyond sale at 1 Quid then the demands of the board ARE an even greater obstacle to the sale.

But it's good that you recognise that the board got us into this position.

Eric, Steve Jones is doing his usual indulgence of using a lot of words to state what everyone knows ie we need big hitters.

Deducing that the asking price is therefore irrelevant is David Icke theorising, pointing out the obvious flaws and contradictions in his verbose nonsense is pointless.

I don't understand why Bill isn't asking for a billion or two for his shares given the irrelevance of it, unadulterated bullshit.

Steve #849,

You seem to be contradicting yourself in your own posts. Do you really believe the asking price is irrelevant in the purchase of an asset? Surely you can see the complete nonsense of that statement?

In your example, you estimate the cost of turning Everton round to be c.£200m. This includes improving the stadium and buying a few players. Let's say there is someone out there that wants to own a team and is willing to spend £250m pursuing their dream. With Everton priced at £50m, on a debt and cash free basis, someone will be interested in the club. With the price at £150m, they're going to walk away.

Price is the key determinent in almost 100% of any private equity deal that I've ever seen. It is the only known/certain driver of eventual return.

You've already admitted that the way the club has been run has made us arrive at the position we are now in. All that now remains is for this to be reflected in the asking price.

How much would you be willing to pay for a stream of negative future cash flows?

With all the above talk of price, investment needed, redevelopment costs.....I think one thing is being overlooked. One simple question:

Is the club actually up for sale (for a realistic price)?

I remember talk of BK looking for 'investment', aka someone to pump a large amount of cash into the club whilst BK still remained in charge of the train set. My personal view is simply that BK is quite happy playing with his toy and being head of EFC and has no intention of letting go anytime soon, unless offered a giant pot of gold at the end of a non existent rainbow.

People mention the costs of taking Everton forward being too large for a potential investor. Well all I can say to that are two words: Manchester City. With over 1bn already invested in Citei, would that sum of cash not have been enough to take Everton to the 'next level'? Were Citie a bigger club than Everton in a one city stadium? Anyway, I digress,

Everton does not need a billionaire (would be nice though), what the club badly needs is sound commercial management. There is scope to improve revenue streams on the commercial and marketing front. It can surely not be impossible to redevelop GP through a phased project, with one stand being looked at at a time (isn't that what ManU did?). We should be developing more players from our supposedly 'world class' youth development, which would generate revenue through player sales if we needed to.

The above my sound obvious/simplistic but what I fail to see is any form of plan/strategty from the current management on how they intend to take the club forward over the next 5-10 years. Either they dont know what to do or are happy to simply tread water and keep finishing around mid table and take the sky TV money every year. Sort of ostrich head in sand attitude.

Admittedly, we are not going to go bust anytime soon. If the banks needed paying off asap, we always have the option of selling a baines or fellaini, without both we would still have the squad to avoid relegation (although would probably finish lower in the league).

Its depressing but I dont think anything is going to happen on the BK front anytime soon. Best chance is for Moyes to leave at the end of his contract (citing needs for a 'new challenge' or whatever) and then see what BK does without his puppy dog.

Two different questions there Denis:

1) Do we need a billionaire as an owner
2) Why have we not been bought when so many have.

Answer to 1 is no we dont....if we manage expectations accordingly. We need to add around £15mn a season to the wage bill to be able to sustain a competitive squad. If a new owner comes in who cant fund infrastructure and create commercial opportunities to get us that then we are no further forward than, really, we are today. In that case the whining continues but the names change on the banners and cake.

Answer to 2 is that people dont buy things they dont want. Richard said: "Let's say there is someone out there that wants to own a team and is willing to spend £250m pursuing their dream."

....which you have echoed with your comment about Man City. Thats what we are waiting for....there havent been many in Prem history so far. Most buyouts are far below this level.

Steve,

What if new owners come in and clear the debt? In that scenario, '...the names change on the banners and cake' but we are not a loss-making club, and we won't have to continually sell our best players to service the debt. The 1st step on the road back to recovery...

Steve #262,

So now you accept the logic that the asking price is a potential barrier to sale, imagine that there is someone out there who has £50m to spend and would be willing to acquire the company for £1, pay off the debt, inject £40m into the playing staff and use the rest to secure some long term infrastructure funding.

It wouldn't be enough to turn the club round but it we'd be £50m better off than we are now.

Either way, 'the Market' is telling us that it isn't willing to acquire Everton at its current price. There is a middle ground somewhere between what the current asking price is and what the Market wants to spend.

Thats the point lads (Danny and Richard).....neither measure you mentioned is any good for the investor so why are they interested in doing it?. Philanthropy?. Heavy knock on the head?. Woke up one morning with the need to own a football club?. None of those are very likely or common are they?.

Richard even says it himself 'it wont be enough to turn the club around' well, if you aren't turning the club around and getting Champs League revenues, what is your investment doing and why did you buy the club?.

That is followed with the question of....'if you have no reason to buy the club...because its not going to make any money....why do you ask the board to name their price?'.

That is followed up with the question 'If you dont ask the board to name their price, because the clubs outlook isnt very attractive and you dont want to buy it, how is it the boards asking price that has put you off???.

You dont have to be David Icke to connect the dots here. You have to work out why people buy football clubs and see if those reasons apply to us or not.

OK Steve, that fella that bought QPR did so to increase the profile of his other businesses, namely Air Asia. He was prepared to buy QPR and incur all of the costs that come with it, for being associated with a Premier League brand and all the exposure that comes with that. I assume he also fancied owning a football club.

That is exactly the type of owner we require. Why can't we just get a reasonably rich businessman who wants to increase his profile and the profile of his other businesses? Preferably one who will exercise good housekeeping while he is in charge of us?

Sure Danny, but, he spent a very small amount (about £40M) and isn't needing or trying to get QPR to the top table is he? That's what I'm saying... taking QPR to the next level is establishing them as a consistent Premier League team... they aspire to be Stoke!

For us it's a different equation. Taking us to the next level... which presumably a new owner would be looking to do (like Fernandes is at QPR)... costs a fortune for all the reasons that are so obvious as pointed out before.

Steve,

Do you think someone could make a return on their investment if they bought Everton for £1?

Danny, I know not much about about QPR, less about their owners, so I looked them up. Bernie Eccleston's name immediately grabbed my attention. He's been involved, and apparently made a profit. Then someone called Lakshmi Mittal 'the then 8th richest man in the world' - Indian steel industry apparently. Monaco and the Virgin Islands seem to be where these people have their offices.

So why QPR? Never been but its in London. I know because when I was a lad they were forever on MotD. Someone suggested that this was because they were close to the BBC TV Centre. The one that's just been sold for £200 million. So its west London then, like Chelsea. Well, would you believe it?

Chaps, if you haven't seen the BBC documentary "QPR – The four-year plan", it's an absolutely must-watch piece of television. It's on iPlayer, and I'm sure it's on YouTube also.

It totally shows modern football for what it is.

I'll second that Mark - frightening. Fabio Briatore......? I think he'd probably get bumped off at our place, horrendous.

Keith,

You are obviously a funny guy. I am well aware that QPR is in West London thank you. I am also aware that we are based in L4 by the way.

I chose QPR, but I could have chose others - let's face it the whole league has been bought out except us, Fulham and Wigan. Are all of these owners doing it to make a profit? I am sure that some are. There are people interested in buying clubs who they want to acquire for a snip, normally a Championship club, who they can spend a few quid on and then sell on when they get to the Premier League.

Now I think about it, QPR's previous owners did this.

We obviously will never get an owner like this, because we are not a viable option if you are looking to give us a make-over and then sell on for a profit.

However, I firmly believe that we could be attractive to raise the profile of a rich businessman further. I think it's fair to say that we haven't fully exhausted our potential in this area. I'm not aware of any major marketing opportunities that we have carried out in Australia or America for instance, on the back of our players. Surely this has to be worth something to people that need that worldwide exposure?

Oh, but I forgot, we are in L4, right Keith? Well if this was reflected in our asking price, and Kenwright wasn't quoting London prices but L4 prices, maybe something would have happened by now...

Personally, I don't care if the socks are blue or white, you can't see them when I've got jeans on.

KG 957 - Quote 'So our best hope seems to be that Vladamir Putin realises that Tony Hibbert is his long lost twin brother and and makes us an offer we can't refuse.'

Bloody brilliant mate - hohoeffin'ho.

We berate Kenwright for not selling the club and for setting the price too high etc etc. According to wikipedia Kenwright owns 25% which means 75% of the club is owned by other people.. Why havent the owners of the other 75% offered to sell their ownership for £1 that way the new owner would have complete complete and Kenwright would become a minority shareholder

Perhaps the other shareholders are as responsible as Kenwright for not wanting to sell the club at a reasonable price? Perhaps Bill wants to sell the club for £1 but the other 75% say no.

Between Bill, Jon Woods and Robert Earl they own 70%. Is Bill dictating the sell price to the other two? Could they not get together and dictate to him what should happen?

The point I'm making is that we blame Bill for everything. He just chairs the meetings. He is probably not in charge of who shits where yet we have him down as being The Godfather

Who owns the remaining 30% The Granchester's own 8% does that mean the remaining 22% are owned by fans like you and me? If thats the case then I suggest that all the fans who own the 22% get together and sell me their shares for a total of £1 and I will get a seat on the board and cause merry hell. I will report back to you toffeewebbers and let you know exactly what is going on behind the scenes, no more lies and deception. I will put direct pressure on the rest of the shareholders on a daily basis to sell the club

I wonder how many fans would give their share(s) away for nothing? Probably none. Bill cant sell this club for a pound. He can just sell his 25%

Danny James

Good post, mate; not to sure about the Grancthesters' involvement... I was led to believe they had cut all their ties with Everton years ago...

Danny and Ian, its been debated on here before regarding the majority shareholders at Everton having to agree the price per share before a block sizeable enough to gain overall control can be made. Thus they closed shop years ago and have agreed a price which has made any purchaser scarper long ago. The other way to gain shares would be a very long hard drudge hoovering up individual shares which are not in their control which would take bloody decades and still not give you enough to have a majority shareholding and thus control.

Gavin, #343, add to that the fact that BK has been buying up shares these last couple of years (over 900) could be construed to mean he does want to sell, at or around the oft-quoted price, and therefore is taking the opportunity to "buy money".

Kenwright owns 25.84%
Robert Earl owns 23.27 %
I think it's safe to say that neither one would sell without the other, and that in effect, gives them total control of the club.

Danny #337
The club has 11,188 minor shareholders making up 31.97% of the total.

Steve I think you need 50.1% to cause any waves, so some more shares to find. I don't even think you have enough to vote someone onto the board.

You could always ask the current shareholders to gift the shares to a supporters trust for zero and have a giggle of triggering a takeover bid once you got over 29.9%. It would get some media coverage at least.

The reality is we`ll be debating this subject in 3 years time, Kenwright is going nowhere not because he can`t sell but because he won`t sell! The day Moyes walks out is the day the deck of cards collapse.

Ian #351

Our shares our privately traded so there are no trigger points at which a takeover offer is mandatory last I heard....which is a shame for the exact reasons you state!.

Richard #317

Sure they could get a return. Selling off a few players or borrowing against the new TV money and skimming off the proceeds would get a hell of a return on a quid. Plenty out there willing to take over on a leveraged position for just such an opportunity.

Running the club correctly and investing only what Fernandes has in QPR (as a benchmark) it would be quite a few years before someone doing so would recover his investment and his original £1 stake.

Does anyone know, since the board moved the goalposts, how it's possible, to force an EGM?

Are there any angles for the Shareholders Association to pressure the board?

Steve #357,

Thanks for answering. The point I am making is that if someone can make a return on a £1 investment then there would be demand for the stock.

If there is demand for the stock (we know there is) and there is no liquidity (the asset isn't trading) then we can only conclude there is a problem on the supply side i.e., the price is too high.

It's economics really, or what those fancy City-types often refer to as the bid-ask spread i.e., the difference between the price someone wants to buy at and the price at which someone is willing to sell.

Danny #337, of course you're right. The Board have been appointed to represent the Shareholders and, as such, can recommned an offer to the Shareholders as they see fit.

For the record, I'm not trying to say that Everton is worth £1. I think there is some value in there, particularly with the new TV deal. However, I was using this nominal amount to demonstrate that such a stagnant market can only really be as a result of poor supply of shares - see above.

I don't konw where the quoted share figures are coming from but I usually check here http://www.toffeeweb.com/club/business/shares.asp under Recent Share History.

Eric,
I got them from Evertons official site.
http://www.evertonfc.com/club/everton-shareholders.html

Thanks Steve, it's always good to quote sources, especially when figures are wildly different.

They seem to be the same figures except TW is more detailed.

Richard 390

Good explanation of supply and demand mate. Agree with what you are saying that if someone, running the club correctly, could make a return on £1 there would be demand.

What I'd dispute is that there is any long lived interest once the few genuine buyers that have looked at us see the investment needed. So, while there may have been interest, I would not say there is demand as the product isn't appealing.

Bobby #358 the change to the Articles of Association put the sword to any power the shareholders had to call the majority shareholders and board to question; the shareholders now are powerless.