There's nothing remotely concrete to suggest that either Heitinga and Baines are on their way. Cahill was always likely to leave — whether it was to China, the Middle East or the States — and nothing has really changed regarding Pienaar despite the media trying to muddy the waters with this supposed interest from QPR and Sunderland (the player wants to play for us).

And Tim Cahill was just a Millwall player when we signed him and, pound for pound, he turned out to be one of the best signings of the Premier League era so let's not judge any mooted interest in Matt Phillips too harshly.

Bullshit Billy never changes going missing when the bullets start flying and putting his face all over the media when there is any good news.

That man and his "friends of Everton" should be given the Freedom of Speke Airport (on a one way flight to anywhere but GP).

Any optimism created by the signing of Naismith and assurances that Pienaarwas coming home is fast evaporating following the departures of Drenthe, Donovan, Stracqualursi, Yobo and Cahill together with some of the younger players.

The club is being run like a corner sweet shop and any hint of NSNO has long been confined to BK's trash can.

If you're fed up of it why don't you drum up a bit of cash yourself and see if you can buy the club.......?!?!?!?

It's BK's fault he's skint - aren't we all for fucks sake.

Survival is the best we can hope for and as we're a selling club, when we do find a decent player WE'RE GOING TO FUCKIN' SELL HIM to make a profit.

Fuck me - it's been like this for years now mate.

If someone offered, say £15m for Heitinga and £20m for Baines, I think the pressure from above to sell would be too great for either the player in question or Moyes to refuse, in my opinion.

As it stands, neither looks remotely likely... I just can't wait for the transfer window to close to remove all doubt.

More a rictus grin praying the usual shit start doesn't materialise and the Xmas upturn doesn't disappoint.

As for the transfer capers, indulging the Kenwright/Moyes axis makes that a given, it goes with the territory.

One of the top 5 will win the FA Cup as well.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a BK 'supporter', quite the opposite, but 'staying away' isn't really helping. People do have a right to let their feet do the talking, but with the exception of your Tim Cahill point, the majority of your grievance was based on pure rumour. Heitinga is going – is he? Says who? The paper... oh this is now fact then yeah! Baines is going – As above!

We can look forward to a Blackpool player – Can we? paper talk again....

Moyes won't sign a new contract – has he even been offered one yet? And to my estimation, there hasn't been any talk this summer of any buyers. Granted there was through the season when the BU were on the boards case, but it has gone quiet on that front.

ETID!!

Sorry, but that sounds an awful lot like:

Gravesen’s off to Madrid and they’re trying to fob us off by bringing in some bloke from Millwall...

Andy Johnson gone and we’re wasting the money on a gangly Belgian that no-one’s even heard of...

Who the hell does Moyes think he’s kidding if he reckons that he can replace Lescott with a Dutchman who flopped in Spain and Sylvain bloody Distin?

Arteta and Bily (OK, not Bily so much) replaced by yet another United reject? Seriously?

The Yak, Beckford and Saha all gone and we’ve managed to bring in a no-mark from Rangers. Sure he can do it in the SPL, but he’ll never make the grade down here....

...and so on and so on.

I mean, it does kinda take the piss when all in a matter of a few days, we turn from Yobo leaving and us getting Pienaar, to Yobo not leaving, no progress with Pienaar, Cahill leaving and Heitinga being strongly linked away.

I'm all for us being careful by not spending much, but BK has really screwed up some transfers, especially Yobo and Pienaar, probably the two most boring transfer sagas.

I think what's more disappointing is after a really good January transfer window, and then Naismith coming in, I thought we would kick on, but it doesn't look like it's happening, although there is still a while yet.

Just for once a summer transfer window, like the one we had in January, would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath, just going to be the same old same old.

Phil, most people would've took not selling our top stars and only bringing in Pienaar, granted it's not ideal, but we looked a decent side back end of last season.

We have added Naismith who adds versitality and a proven understanding with our top striker, the young lad Cisco Junior who we got 6 months or so ago from City looks a talent and then you add Pienaar to that and it looks ok.

Ideally, we would go out and buy the players we all want, but if we look at it realistically, we have a decent side, so keep that together and add 1 or 2 faces and it's not all that bad (on the pitch).

I am amazed that some people will only support a club that spends money. My support for Everton has nothing to do with how much they spend, or who is running the show. Its down to the whole experience of going to watch the team I love play football. I can go to the match with the lads, have a shocker and lose, and still manage to enjoy my day out.

The way our club works is that players will come and go. I would be gutted if we sell Baines and Heitinga only if it is for the paltry amounts quoted (8m and 5m respectively) if it is for closer to our asking price I will accept it as a modern reality for many clubs and not just Everton

The NFL is a league we should look to replicate - otherwise it will become even more mundane, monotonous than it already is. It would be one thing if we were developing young players and KEEPING them. It would be exciting and we could develop organically like we all would like. We'd have more patience as well. We've now just been brow-beaten for so long that none of this all really matters that much. My advice would be to not look at the table until the last 10 games and just enjoy the one off match experiences. If we're in contention for the Europa League than you can get your panties a little moist at that point, but don't get them in a bunch until at least March

COYB!

Firstly, Des, Baines and Heitinga haven't gone or even been bid for as far as I know.

Secondly, Jay Harris, what the hell are you talking about? Drenthe and Straq were loan players that were always going to leave (for differing reasons – Drenthe has a bad attitude and Straq though a trier isn't good enough).

Likewise, Donovan was always a temporarily loan and has returned as we were always told he would. Yobo hasn't played for the club for over 2 years and we've been trying to get rid of him all that time... still are!

The only first team player who has left (and even that hasn't actually completed) is Tim Cahill who, though a legend in his time, was a shade of his former self last year and has often been identified on this site as a potential limit to the evolution of our game. Moving Tim on to a big contract elsewhere and freeing up wages plus £1M transfer fee looks like sound business to me.

In terms of players in, Naismith looks a solid signing and there will definitely be more to come – hopefully Pienaar, almost certainly a couple of loaners. And let's not forget this is on the back of the acquisition of Jelavic and Gibson in January.

If we do lose Baines or Felli or fail to sign any further reinforcements then you'll have a fair case. Until then these posts are no better than the random media speculation that's prompting them.

Doesn't the NFL have no promotion/relegation? I'm not sure that's a model I'd go along with - knowing Everton it would come in the season after we have been relegated !

Would obviously be great if we can bolster our wings to increase service with Pienaar (obv) and maybe a loanee gamble option (a la Drenthe but preferably with a little less attitude).

If we manage to limit it to Pienaar and Naismith in plus maybe a loaner and just Cahill, Yobo and Silva out, then I think we should be happy with the summer's work.
With the likes of Barkley, Duffy and now Junior showing real promise in stepping up from the youth ranks plus Rodwell and Coleman back fit alongside Vellios and Anichebe to continue their pressure for first team action then we have enough in reserve from a c.23 man first team squad to back up a solid first team of:

Howard
Neville Heitinga Jagielka/Distin Baines
Osman Gibson Fellaini Pienaar
Jelavic Naismith

The NBA has a luxury tax on the teams that go over the salary cap. The NBA is turning into the have's and have-nots as we've seen this offseason where there are about 6 teams that realistically can win the championship and the rest are just there to get dunked on and be on the opposite end of any highlight reel dunks. (You know, that tall, goofy, doughy white guy who is trying to block the dunk at the same time ducking his head to not be in a poster)

Since the teams in Europe run the leagues and not vice versa as they do here (Man Utd, Liverpool etc.) it will probably be next to impossible to legislate any sort of real financial fair play. There's too much money in the game and too many people willing t take money for it to change any time soon so we're left with what we are left with. Battling Spurs and Newcastle and liverpool for 4th, 5th and 6th respectively.

Until there's a breakaway league, this is about as exciting as it's going to get for us. Lets enjoy it and try to nick 4th!

And remember, if the season ended today, we'd be 4th behind Arsenal, Aston Villa and Chelsea. I'll take it

The idea is to get into Europe via league placing or a trophy, and then to make a good fist of it the season after (with the extra games that would involve). That could be possible with a small squad if there are very few injuries, but that is a big gamble and not likely to come off.

It is true that exceptional players are going to be hard to compensate for at any club, but our team could be massively affected by a few injuries to much more modestly skilled individuals, which the teams we will be attempting to compete with won't be.

We all need to wait and see what we have at the beginning of September before making any judgement, but as things stand I think there is very little to get excited about one way or the other.

My point is not whether they were loan players or not but that they were part of the squad and have saved us significant wages in being released.

Where is that money going?

Last summer we lost Beckford ,Yak and arteta and sold Bellefield netting around £30 million in the process with the promise that Moyes would be given money to spend. The debt was not reduced so where has that money gone?

I should also point out that there is an estimated windfall of £30 million extra from TV rights and I am sure we did not budget to be 7th.

So why oh why are we struggling to put a couple of million together especially when we have billionaires already involved with the club (Lord Grantchester, Green and Earl) or is the black hole that is unexplained operating costs getting even bigger.

Granted there are some weird things going on (Yobogate, the Pienaar saga, constant (yawn) rumours about some of our players), but there is no other premiership club that has signed loads of players up to know and the season doesn't start for another 4 weeks!

The loan signings were always going to be released come 30 June - no surprise there. Cahill leaving was obvious as he has been shite for about the last 18 months and was one of our highest earners, (top bloke but all good things come to an end - from a footballing and business sense I'm glad he's off the wage bill!). So as far as players that belong to us, its one in and one out. On the bright side we've actually signed someone before August, when was the last time that happened?

Stop getting so worked up with what the papers say, most of it is bollocks anyway. Keep the powder dry for a good moan if f'all has happened come 20th August (I know I will).

Until then, enjoy the sunshine (while it lasts). I want both BK and Moyes gone myself but am not going to blame either for not much having happened up to July, almost a month before the season starts – some players have not even come back from holiday!

(A good source tells me that Barcelona had a £30m bid for Anichebe rejected – apparently they said it was not enough and Everton needed to give them more cash in order for him to wear their shirt..)

Last season we started we Drenthe and he saved us from being even lower in the table, without him now we are clueless.
Unless we get Pienaar sorted we will have a terrible season.

I say get Drenthe signed and then we will have a fail safe in case Pienaar never comes.
I hope it is possible for Moyes to forgive and forget, but if he does not do it then this crappy transfer window will only feel worse.
We need creative wingers like the desert needs water.
Drenthe did a great job during the first half and Pienaar took over in the second half of the season.
Without ANY wingers we are so srewed, I only pray Moyes knows that as much as I do, but I am not holding my breath.

So overall people have the right to feel let down, Naismith is not enough, he is more of a striker or attacking midfielder.

Must be your dark Scandinavian humour......

I admit I do not know the extent of wwhat Drenthe did exactly, but we have to look beyond that, after all getting back into Europe is more important then holding grudges.
We can not afford to let him slip, we have no money.
Is that sinking in with anyone?
Drenthe is free, he will not cost any transfer fee, and we do not have any= the puzzle fits.

You can agree to disagree, but I want what is best for Everton, I deperately want us back in Europe, we need the extra cash.

How good will you feel about another season outside of Europe?
I am sick of it, and I am willing to take a chance with Drenthe in the hope that he will mature.
After all Moyes has had to deal with many different difficult persons in his career with us.
I have faith Moyes could deal with Drenthe, but it is in Moyes hands.
If he does not get us back into Europe then I want him gone.
It is that simple.

The Bellefield money (circa 10 mill) went to the bank, the Arteta money (circa 10 mill) went to the bank, I don't know how you get Beckford and Yak sales as being 10 mill though (1.5 mill for Yak and 8.5 mill for Beckford?).

Otherwise it's a last day of August deal if BK reckons we can do without him to save the August salary too.

Jimmy, let it go for crying out loud.

As mooted on here it may well be a last minute panic for him....

And Jay, this EPL windfall through extra TV income doesn't materialise until the 2013-14 season. Doesn't stop us borrowing against it though I suppose. I still laugh when I hear people saying they've cancelled their ESPN already. Still a season to go (though we don't feature on ESPN before Xmas).

A few quid from supporters staying away? You're joking right? 5,000-10,000 down per game makes a massive difference, unless you're absolutely minted like City or Chelsea, in which case it doesn't matter at all.

Last year it was Arteta, this year it will be Baines and/or Fellini but he will continue to spout his "...I'm looking for investment 24/7..." shite.

Don't be surprised if the re-signing of Pienaar doesn't happen...it's a joke that we have to sell Yobo (a player who has not played a game for Everton for over 2 yrs) in order to buy Pienaar....a fucking joke.....West Ham, a club who nearly went out of business a couple of years ago, have just made a £17 mil bid for that donkey across the park but we can't summon up the cash for a player who actually wants to come back....fuckin joke

Bungling Bill might say he wants to sell but his actions tell us different....Kenwright you are an embarrassment to the club.....Please keep your word...FUCK OFF and take your cronies with you

I just wish Moyes would actually call his bluff and give him an ultimatum..."Get me the cash we need or I walk..." be interesting to see how quickly he gets investors then...!!

Is there really nothing to talk about?!

Why would the directors throw their money away putting it into the club. They have one aim at the moment and that is keeping Everton afloat. They would be idiots to put their own money into the black hole that's Everton finance. The directors not putting money in and nobody else being willing to is two sides of the same coin. We are not a buy

A few quid from supporters? our average gate was down by about three thousand last season I think, which equates to about 1.5 to 2 million pounds, so if Des and others would have stuck their hands in their pockets, we might have a few more quid for our transfer kitty.

As for me it's more than a couple of quid postage to ship something half way around the world, in fact the postage costs more than the merchandise so it's really not worth it.

How about asking our board to stick their hands in their pockets? How many of our supporters are multi millionaires?

They invested in the purchase of the club. Nobody else bought it and if they can get more than they paid then good luck to them. I seriously doubt that they will even if it was only 20 mil.

By "not a buy" I mean that there's not a financial justification for buying the club.

Add no relegation system (Which we'll never have in sport professional here) and owners all but have permission to print their own money, year after year. As long as 22 warm bodies in team jerseys show up on the field every week, you're good to go.

The TV money is what matters. EPL divides it evenly by 20 every year, you'll have a more competitive league pronto. Not to mention a more dynamic Championship, as moneyed folk look to buy a team down there and get it up into the EPL TV revenue trough.

Me saying Cahill was shite last season and you saying 'I think he just struggled, being the age he is, to be able to consistently do what was expected of him from manager and supporters alike' is basically saying the same thing, just one version is dressed up in nicer language, imo.

For most of the games he played in last season he contributed very little, hence me saying he was shite. I could tone this down to he was 'very poor/poor' I guess. His game was always about coming into the box late and banging in headers, once that part went, he didn't really contribute much else on the pitch.

However, before criticising a great ambassador for the club too much, I will obviously have to highlight that no matter how poor a player is performing, its not his fault if the manager keeps picking him! (Although he did throw a strop when he was left out of the side in Nov/Dec last year for a game or two). Both Cahill and Saha offered next to nothing up front for the first 15-20 odd games of the season - yet they were still in the starting XI week in, week out. Go figure..

I of course wish TC all the best in NY but also hope that there is no more talk of a 'Cahill' role and we play attacking, creative forwards, who can dribble, pass, shoot from distance etc in support of the striker(s) and not look to use this position as the first line of defence with the main intention of 'being a nuisance'.

Anyway, getting side tracked from the OP....apologies..

I was under the impression there was significant extra revenue coming at the end of August.

Whoever coined the phrase "no news is good news" must have been a Blue.

Recently promoted sides always have an edge in the transfer market. During their first few seasons they basically have a Premier League level of income but, for the most part, they’re only paying out Championship level wages to their playing staff. That tends to leave them with a decent surplus with which to dabble in the transfer market (though some, like Blackpool [gone] and, largely, Swansea [going] prefer to continue operating within tight fiscal constraints).

After a few years of top-flight survival, however, that advantage will have evaporated because they will have signed new players and renewed the contracts of others, leading to a huge escalation in the wage bill. That means that three or four years in (if they last that long), they hit the same wall we have, where the money’s all dried up and they have to sell in order to reinvest. Like Stoke have just found out:

http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/story-16087461-detail/story.html

Do you think any RS, Spurs, Chelsea or Man U supporter would ever compare their club to Stoke?

Let me also point out the other side of that story in that other teams will not have had the length of time in the Premier League that we have had and therefore have not had the (record) level of income that we have enjoyed let alone the money from Rooney, Lescott, Arteta and sale proceeds of Netherton and Bellefield to name but a few.

And I'm glad you pointed out the Kitbag deal because it doesn't matter how many fans buy merchandise, either by trekking across the city to one of the only 2 outlets or through the Internet, the Club get no extra benefit from it, it all goes to Kitbag.

So sort of destroys your point about fans being responsible for us not being able to buy Pienaar eh?

"Let me also point out the other side of that story in that other teams will not have had the length of time in the Premier League that we have had and therefore have not had the (record) level of income that we have enjoyed let alone the money from Rooney, Lescott, Arteta and sale proceeds of Netherton and Bellefield to name but a few"

That statement alone speaks volumes.

This club is so badly run it's laughable. Anyone with an ounce of business knowledge would use us as an example of how not to run a company

Phil@302 - No mate, I'm back next Friday after 14 weeks. I didn't come home last leave as I did a motorcycle trip around Kaz, Uzzbekistan, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan. I'm going to take an extra week this time so that I can come up from the beautiful South and watch Everton

Martin Mason has shown on previous threads that he is just a WUM that spreads disinformation as he has nothing better to do while at work in Khazakstan, oh and now claims to represent the majority of supporters.

And as for Richard (Smith) suggesting that it's the supporters fault that the Club has no investment, that's just plain ridiculous.

In my lifetime alone, neither would supporters of Aston Villa (League Champions, European Champions), Blackburn Rovers (League Champions), Coventry City (FA Cup winners), Derby County (League Champions), Ipswich Town (FA Cup winners, UEFA cup winners), Leeds United (League champions, European runners-up, FA Cup winners, Cup Winner’s Cup finalists), Nottingham Forest (League Champions, European Champions), Portsmouth (FA Cup Winners), Southampton (FA Cup winners), Sunderland (FA Cup winners), West Ham United (FA Cup Winners, Cup Winner’s Cup finalists) or Wimbledon (FA Cup Winners). How many of those would be flattered to be compared to Stoke right now?

As for the other side of the coin, take Swansea City as an example. Their total revenue in the season that they earned promotion was around £11.7 million. Last year they took almost £46 million in Premier League payments (i.e. TV money and league placing bonus) alone. They’ll make a similar amount this season. That’s a financial boost of at least £68 million, just for the two seasons that they’ve been in the top flight, even before you factor in increased gate receipts, merchandising, sponsorship, the compensation they received for Brendan Rodgers’ move to Anfield and the likely sale of players like Joe Allen (for a probable £10 to £15 million). You need to sell a LOT of Artetas to generate the kind of cash windfall that the newly promoted clubs enjoy.

I don’t think that anybody’s denying how far we’ve fallen and I don't know anyone who wouldn't like to see the club run more profitably but, to those of us who live in the present rather than dwell on the past with all that maudlin “if you know yer history” drivel, the whole “we should be able outspend ***insert name of perceived upstart newcomer here***” dogma just doesn’t add up.

"And as for Richard (Smith) suggesting that it's the supporters fault that the Club has no investment, that's just plain ridiculous."

Where did I say that?
I was making the point that a drop in attendances equates to a substantial amount of money that the club could do with, not a "few quid"
But don't let fact get in the way of your argument will you? it hasn't been part of your previous posts on this thread either.

Richard Jones #388
Apologism? How? pointing out facts is not apologism, in fact, apologism is not a word.
The club has many faults that I wouldn't dare to try and defend, but you meldrew webbers get on my tits sometimes.

Not the report that I read. Please give me the paragraph reference where it states that the club is not for sale. I did when I made the original statement and it wasn't Elstone that made the statement. Proof that the club isn't for sale please

Eric@413

Example of "misinformation" please. I do my best to never say anything that I can't back up.

From what I can gather BK has said he has been trying to sell the club for years (not just recently). Given the club has not been sold in that time (whereas virtually every other top club has changed hands), one can only assume that the reason for the lack of sale is the price - i.e. its too high/unreasonable.

Given this, its then logical to conclude that either the owners are looking to make a massive gain on sale or they have set the price so high knowing full well this would mean there would be no sale (i.e. they want to look like they are willing to sell but really have no intention of selling).

The quoted price of somewhere between 100m-150m for a business with its well known issues and regular operating losses, would seem to back this up. The price is simply unrealistic. As would BKs comments before as to looking for 'investment' and not necessarily a sale - i.e. wants someone elses cash whilst still staying in control.

I presonally believe BK has no intention of going anywhere unless forced to. Whilst we still have valuable players and ever increasing Sky money to borrow against, he's set for a while longer yet.

Document from the enquiry Martin hope this helps!!

Can you prove that the club is for sale?

Any other means than quotes attributed to Kenwright or other members of his staff (as they could be construed as feeding an agenda).

An example of proof would be a statement from a business hired to sell other businesses (even a feckin magazine advert would suffice).

Who made that statement in the DK inquiry? You post as if it was the Club but as Richard Styles pointed out, the Club position was that the shareholders had no intention of selling their shares.

And who did the inquiry believe? And what was their finding?

Also refer to the discourse you had with Colin Fitzpatrick where he destroyed every comment you made so you tried to obscure the debate.

What I'd like to know is if the board could find the investment of 76 million to build a coweshed in Desperation Kirkby for the basket case that is Everton why can't they find 10 million for a new stand with coporate facilities that will add a few thousand to the attendances and bring in additional income AND increase the value of the Club?

When I discussed it previously I also listed the para where it was stated clearly in the findings that the club had patently been for sale for several years and it wasn't by anyone from the club but the guy running the enquiry. I've deleted the report now because I'd won all of the weak arguments thrown at me especially those by Colin but I'll try to dig it up again. The null hypothesis is that the club is for sale and you have to prove that it isn't. The club has employed agents to initiate a sale and has patently interviewed many potential buyers so the club is for sale. Anything else is fantasy. The concept that it can't be for sale unless they state a price is nonsense, the price is negotiable and any buyer would be advised of the price when they enquire. they're not selling a car on Autotrader you know.

These are facts established by the enquiry.

The Public Enquiry into DK found against Tesco's proposal. Everton's ground move was an enabler. Whether you believe DK was a good move or not, the proposal was always going to be called in, and always going to fail. Everton's planning consultants knew that, but having been through the mill before with the King's Waterfront, their only concern was getting paid.

Martin, you work in Oil and Gas in a former Soviet state? So you understand how capitalism and communism operate. This isn't the forum, but I sincerely hope I can debate it with you over a pint of Baltika 7 or whatever the brew is these days!

It WAS a gamble with limited downside – and many may disagree with gambling with Everton's future but right now there is much more certainty that Everton are going backwards compared with the top 5 or 6 clubs over the medium to long term. Do we gamble to try to change this or let ourselves slide? We are a football club that needs to win that can only spend a third as much as some of our competitors. I say gamble as much as we can.

The DK proposal was always going to be called in with the benefit of hindsight but the club, the council, Tesco and their armies of advisors thought it had a high chance of getting approval. The enquiry did a good job though and made the right decision. King’s Dock was a tragedy for the club, it was exactly right in every way and seemed like a betrayal of the highest order. I believe though that we were never in a position to raise the money but BK may have thought we could.

I’d also genuinely hope that one day we could debate Everton issues over a beer, you’d find we have far more in agreement than dispute

I do believe that by and large this board are not bad all things considered the last 3 words being critical

Justs for interest, this is what somebody from Everton said when interviewed about the reverse mortgage and other issues.
"Look, we're in a dreadful situation where Everton can't afford it and we don't want to lose it. And at the moment what has happened over the last six-eight weeks is that Bill has been speaking energetically to existing funders like Bear-Sterns, bankers, property developers, we've met with them, we've supported Bill in that. But quite frankly, well, we just can't do the kind of deal we need to do." I think that answers all of the questions.

No, I don't agree. I've seen people put houses and cars up for sale and they haven't been sold. They were absolutely for sale but nobody would buy at the asking price.

What would you say if the asking price was exactly what the directors paid, say J 20 million? I'd say it was overpriced and wouldn't find a buyer. Should they give it away? Should they sell at any cost regardless of who the purchaser is or should they sell only to somebody who can invest?

However, we know that turnover is going to rise dramatically in 2013 giving a real boost to the value of those shares both now and in the future. It is plain to see that the primary cash-making model of the Premier League is doing very well indeed with a strong future (such huge amounts of money in this current recession is a huge plus). This money is reliable and growing - Everton is a very good buy at £140 million if you just want to sit and watch it grow provided we stay in the Premier League – enter the prime guarantor of that status: David Moyes. That is why Moyes is so well paid.

However building stadia and bidding for Champions League is going to cost a lot more requiring a completely different sort of investor/owner. As discussed ad nauseum, we need someone to see value in Everton over and above our status in the PL. Someone with £500 million to spend over say 5 years.

We are apparently un-buyable and not even worth a pound, a (yawn) financial basket case. The current board’s asset disposal business model has brought us to this financial position. Also, the manner in which they conduct their business has led to a divided, fractured fan base, yet, hey, guess what..............they aren't bad all things considered.

So that’s your point is it? That’s the big secret I've been missing. There I was thinking they have only destroyed the clubs balance sheet, failed to develop the clubs infrastructure, been propped up by Moyes and patently have no plan for future progression.

But its ok, because.............. they aren't all bad all things considered.

One of the things I could consider is that, in an era of money flowing into the game at an unparalleled rate, the boom years of football, we have barely scratched the surface in developing our infrastructure or business in the manner to which other clubs, not previously in our peer group and who have now appeared by our shoulder and in some cases have actively overtaken us, have done. That failure to grow our business and, crucially, develop the clubs infrastructure, actively hinders the sale of the club today.

Every thread you get involved in on this topic ends up as a conversational cul de sac, as you resort to creating your own reality to keep up some pretence that your points have a grain of credibility.

For example: What would you say if the asking price was exactly what the directors paid, say J 20 million? I'd say it was overpriced and wouldn't find a buyer. Should they give it away? Should they sell at any cost regardless of who the purchaser is or should they sell only to somebody who can invest?

Your very keen on proof Martin. Where is the proof that it would be overpriced at £20 million, other than Masonworld?

Proof please.

Also, please bear in mind that the current rumoured sale price for Everton comes from the mouth of one of the advisors tasked with helping to sell the club, namely Keith Harris.

But, of course, I forgot, this board aren't too bad though. Despite the fact that they appear to be asking for £100-150 million for a financial basket case club that you believe is overpriced at £20 million. The club wouldn’t be more sellable at the price they paid for it though, of course not. Masonworld says we are unsellable.

That’s what happens when you take a deliberately contrary stance and protect it at all costs Martin, you end up talking utter bullshit..............I can see why you are such a fan of our board.

Please make sure you don’t get involved in another internet pissing contest though, I know you hate those.

You are a joke.

Either way the salient point is that we are unlikely to have new owners anytime soon unless the current occupants accept that they haven't made much of success and ate not going to get the profit margins they were hoping for.

I don't see how Cahill going is a bad thing...It's sad to see him go, but he looked out of steam, and 1million for a 32 year old on big wages is good business. Getting rid of Yobo...hopefully...will also be a positive, and I'm actually quite surprised that we've managed to bring in Naismith and seemingly, Pienarr, with minimal spending (in view of our last few summers). Hopefully it means we are finally getting to a position where we don't have to sell each summer (which we should be approaching, given our wage cuts).

With respect to the implied Matt Philips link...what's your point Des? do you think clubs shouldn't buy from the lower leagues? Because we seem to have done pretty well out of players who started in the championship, whilst the likes of Bent, Walcott, the Ox etc look pretty decent/have done well. Phillips looks a young exciting player with an eye for goal...we need a winger, and I don't consider his impact to have been that different to Zaha...but he will cost much much less. I also think the performance of the promoted clubs last season has illustrated that there is some good ability in the lower leagues (watch out for Snodgrass this season)

If you calm down and use a civil tongue in your head I'll answer your questions especially if you keep them to the point. Take a lesson from Sam and Shaun above.

Martin #802, I state that the price being asked for is £150-180m. Why? Because Keith Harris of Seymour Pierce said so in a TV interview. And Bill Kenwright has stated in the BU meeting that he was involved, along with a few others (from memory) DB, PCP, Leon Angel (who's a football agent).

Now that may not be the sought price, fair enough. But it may be enough to put people off even dealing with them. With every sale there has to be a willing buyer and a willing seller. Someone posted on here that one interested party was told they'd have to take part in some multi-million development before they even got their hands on the club, and promptly walked away.

Now some on here will dismiss the above as internet rubbish, and what I'm about to say. I know from a source within the game that a price quoted was "between £50 and a £100m". If it's towards the lower end of that figure then there may be a deal to be struck. However the origin of this quote is someone close to the Chairman, not on the payroll of the club. The use of middle men makes me nervous about how the process would actually play out, and may also be an indication of why we've not had a buyer get to 2nd base.

I happen to believe that the club is for sale, but I am of the opinion that Bill Kenwright is not in a position to put a price on the club as a whole which is why he often deflects such questions. The true ownership of this club is shrouded in mystery despite what the official numbers on share ownership may reflect.

Clearly the air is a bit thin up there on the moral high ground.

Vacuous and predictable, another sad attempt at a wind up.

I didn't want any direct response from you.

I was highlighting your latest episode of nonsensical, smoke and mirrors buffoonery.

Yes that WAS the inquiry's findings, but who was it who testified that Everton ARE for sale?

And who testified that they are NOT? I'll give you a clue to this, it was Elstone on behalf of his bosses.

Clearly from your post the inquiry chose NOT to believe the Club, who was it that they chose to BELIEVE?

Back in 1999, Bill Kenwright and his mates (under the umbrella of True Blue Holdings) paid around £20M for around two-thirds of the club's shares.

That valued the club at £30M — NOT £80M.

Although something we tend to forget: at the time, Peter Johnson valued the club at £80M or higher — as much as £140M as I recall. But over the many many months leading up to the takeover, Kenwright et al (crucially, in the absence of any other realistic competition) succeeded in beating him down to what was arguably a 'bargain' price for such an iconic club.

Little question for you, if BK is serious about selling, can you explain why he recently bought more shares? About 400k worth, last year alone, going by the current market value per share. To me that doesn't look like the act of a man who is looking to sell up anytime soon.

My own view of BK's way of doing things particularly share snaffling as and when is genuine interest in the club IS and always has been there.

You wouldn't buy stock in a business essentially without assets (bar the players) without this type of good insider knowledge.

If true, it suggests he's comfortably holding out till his terms are met and while we avoid relegation battles he's laughing cos not enough are arsed,

It's cack and tantamount to not being for sale in any meaningful way but remarkably there are still voices saying he's doing a marvellous job.

What can you do?

Wait for disaster I suppose.

Yellow card and final warning — quit with the name-calling, alrite?

When I wrote in earlier, I asked what was the point in BK buying more, he has via a concert party, absolute control.

I cannot remember the rest of what I surmised back when I originally wrote in, but I did wonder if he had been given the shares, maybe as a part of a Will settlement, but the question I am sure asked and I remain interested to know. For a man who seems to plead poverty (it is all relative), what would he buy more shares?