Apart from Pienaar arriving sooner than two months after the season ended, I'm not sure what you were expecting, Kevin.

If last summer and January showed anything, it's that finances at Everton are incredibly tight right now. Ridiculously tight. So the Pienaar deal is clearly dependent on enough money coming in from player sales.

The Yobo and Cahill deals would be means to that end but only one of them has come off so far and although £1m is cheap, we don't yet know what the deal fully entails.

As far as Fenerbahce go, they reneged on the £5m deal. You can't force them to pay that much now two years down the road so you either take what you can reasonably get for him from a club he wants to play for or you cut off your nose to spite your face. We obviously tried the former to smoothe the passage of Pienaar but who knows what the hold-up is now.

And to your final point, Hoilett clearly wanted too much money and Everton have clearly drawn a line in the sand that they weren't willing to cross for Rodallega or Hoilett. If you break the wage structure for a middling Colombian forward or a 22 year-old winger from a relegated club then you set yourself up for trouble from your more established stars at a time when you're reining in your wage bill.

I deliberately haven't gone into the reasons why we're in this financial bind because it's a whole can of worms that's been opened before but I personally don't think you can really point to farcical dealings on the Blues' part so far. Our frustrations are down to being plain skint and having no real bargaining power.

Right now we need to sell to buy the players that we really want but cost proper money, not just 50grand. It would be nice for fans, and I include myself in this, for the club to just go to the free transfer list of players, bring two or three players that we specifically need into the club immediately come the 1st July and then shout job done. But at the moment this approach doesn't seem to suit what the club feels we need. It would mean making space for these players and would mean selling players that we don't want to or need to, that don't want to go themselves or that nobody else wants

The way that transfers in general, and transfer windows as a whole, operate, is a pain in the arse when you are a fan, but it is what it is.

As said above, Hoilett and Rodallega wanted too much, and to be fair, if they were that good they would have been chased by Man.utd, Arsenal etc. I read somewhere that if we got more than £1.5m for Cahill then Millwall get a big chunk of the transfer fee so maybe it was worth only taking a small fee for him. It was also a thanks to Cahill and I cant really argue with that logic.
The Pienaar situation is a bit different. I don't think he is being "his usual mercenary self" (though there is some truth in that), as he has agreed terms. It has been reported that Bill is struggling to raise the £1.5m down payment to Spurs. The Yobo deal should be cancelled if they don't sell within a week, it's gone on too long and the Turks are really taking the piss. I should imagine we are that desperate for the cash that we are prepared to take a hit. As for the rest of the transfer window.......be prepared to get a couple of loans in and lose someone like Baines/Fellaini and deadline night with no time for replacements and the money vanishing into thin air come January.

Lyndon,

We all know the financial situation. However, we also all know that BK keeps telling us that he is looking for investors.

So, when the message coming out of Goodison is that we are looking to get 2-3 players in quickly that sets expectations.

That is the problem. All Evertonian expectations have been set unneccessarily high. If nothing had been said we would alll have been happy with Naismith so far and an outside chance of Peinaar.

Moyes clearly thought he was going to be able to get those players in so it's a valid question to ask why we were told about that if it was not going to be possible. It's not like there is anything to hide about the finances any more. Or is there?

Kevin, if we can conclude the deal for Yobo we might get Pienaar the beginning of August so we will have saved 2 months wages on him, unless BK thinks he can get away with saving another 1 month and only sign him on D-Day.

We get the first tranche of the Sky money beginning of August also so expect to see some action then, or Pienaar signed if the Yobo deal still hasn't gone through.

In other words same story as every year.

Churchill, Rooseveldt and Stalin sorted out the future division of Europe at Yalta in a matter of days. Obviously a lot easier than saying to Spurs..." here's £3 million , do you want it or not ? If no, then piss off and we'll look at someone else.

Alan (#418) absolutely true; however, Bill is more likely offering £500k down and the rest on the never-never knowing him. Also, he doesn't want to pay Pienaar's wage until he really needs to.

We should not expect anything else from our club until the ownership is sorted, and that looks years away... Would you pay £150 million for a club valued at £35 million??? Thought not... but 24/7 Bill can wait.

Successful negotiation lies in finding out what the other side really wants and showing them a way to get it while you get what you want. But that's never easy when you're skint.

Is it just me who gets really irritated by this self indulgent "laughing stock" crap? Sorry for being a grumpy old man! No one else cares about us - most fans are too busy bleating about their own club being a laughing stock.

People see other clubs without the clouding emotions - my friends just see EFC as a decent club with no money - end of story.

The only fans who laugh at us are the RS - they are going to do it regardless in the same way that we are still laughing at Carroll, Downing and Henderson (am having a nice giggle just typing those names)

It is what it is - move on

Kevin, we are skint?

Can you imagine Everton's representatives negotiating in hostage situations? Hostages and hostage takers, plus Everton negotiators all die of starvation and thirst after six weeks of disagreement over what flavour pop and sandwiches to send up.

Lyndon as hit the nail on the head with regards to the OP!. If you havent got the money behind ya when negotiating then it is hard to strike a deal. Sales have to be made in order to sign Pienaar and hopefully, once and for all, we get rid of Yobo to make up the money to sign Pienaar!.

And Al Reddish, I hope we don't end up selling a Baines or Felli come the end of the window to satisfy the banks and get no money or time to re-invest. Money's tight, very tight at Everton so i'd be happy if we signed Pienaar and a loan or 2 to go with the Naismith signing and keep both Baines and Fellaini, i'll consider that a good summer for us!.

And we are due a payment on August 1st Eric Myles but that will go to the banks as we took a loan out on the basis of that for operating costs, so we wont see a penny of any Sky money going on buying players.

We take out loans based on the garauntee of the Sky money coming to help with running costs, not to borrow so we can go out and buy players. Thats how skint we are, we take out re-mortgages and extend overdrafts and take out loans to be able to pay the costs of running the club, helping pay are annual fee for Finch Farm, Staff wages etc, etc.

"If it is actually true that we are dependent on the Yobo and Cahill sales to fund a move for a player, well that to me speaks volumes about the mismanagement of this great club."

What I find it hard to believe is that you started that sentence with the word "if". Like is there really anyone out there that still believes there is any doubt over the mismanagement of our club and the fact that we are broke. It's not an if. It's reality and it's getting worse year on year. There will be no change from this scrimping and selling policy until there is a change of ownership at our club. The current incumbents do not have the business acumen to do anything other than keep the club afloat, never mind bring it forward.
So until there is a power change get used to this.

Agree with Damian Kelly, this 'laughing stock' tag is ridiculous. The only people who even think twice about it is us.

Let's see what our team looks like when they line up at Goodson against man u. I still think its going to be a pretty decent team and will more than likely have pienaar in it.

Spot on Damian # 427
I can just see the fans of Citee, United, Spurs, Newcastle etc. bombarding their sites with "Fuck all this speculation about who we are signing....have you seen what those wankers at Everton are doing" I can imagine a wry smile breaking out on the faces of Glasgow Rangers fans thinking "Well at least the scouse blues are taking the limelight off us for a bit!"

If we cant afford to spend like other teams we will on occasions look like poor relations, and that's because we are. Bollocks to everyone else, we try to operate within our means, if deals go beyond them then we step away.

As Sam says if we don't lose our key players and have added Piennar and Naismith then to me thats a pretty decent summer. All relative of couse and I await the arrival of Iniesta on the back of a quick deal for Anichebe to Wigan.

A lot of other clubs have actually signed players in quite a short time.
We signed Felli when the fans were restless so now we are as usual dragging our heels.
We have dropped our wage bill considerably over the past couple of seasons losing virtually all our top earners.

We continually cry poverty despite finishing higher than most each season and having a consistent fan base of over 30,000.
I for one cannot believe the miserly way our great club is run and I cannot accept being told that we have no money.
Other clubs in the league are already active and not just for loan players and car sales.

Mr David Moyes wrote that he wants new signings as soon as possible so that they can be bedded in prior to the new season.
Every player we have been linked with in the press has either signed elsewhere or vanished from our radar screen.

We already had Pienaar and let him go ? Now we want him back and will probably have to pay more for him than we received !
The reason for letting him go was his salary, so I am led to believe.
He apparantly wanted parity with Arteta....now both are at other clubs and so is Cahill, Ruddy, Bily, Yakubu, Beckford, Yobo (?), Gosling and Vaughan.
MacFadden and Hahnemann have been released along with quite a few of our youngsters.

Our wage bill must be much lower according to the above as we have just acquired Jelavic and Naismith to make up for all the above.
Our fans will swallow anything !!

Eric also hits on the other point I was going to make: we have a ha it of delaying player acquisitions so we don't have to pay players throughout the summer.

Again, painful to acknowledge for a club of Everton's stature but it makes business sense if you're skint...

Gary J: So, when the message coming out of Goodison is that we are looking to get 2-3 players in quickly that sets expectations.

I have sympathy with that, Gary, but Kevin's specific point was about what he feels has been farcical management of the transfer dealings themselves. We obviously don't have the full back story or any real insight as to whether that's true so, as fans, it gets very frustrating... Especially when the likes of QPR are moving above us in the net-spend table.

Lyndon, that makes sense as long as you don't miss out on a key player for the sake of £200,000 or so.

Can anyone confirm whether there will be a chunk of TV money coming in at the start of August or not, as I have seen very different opinions posted on the site? If it is coming then I guess waiting another couple of weeks for things to fall into place won't be too bad.

It is well known that the team has out-performed relative to the investment over a number of seasons. With that in mind it seems strange that there doesn't seem to be a little extra to spend in the summer (how much is 7th place and a semi-final appearance worth to the club), and it seems to indicate that the board are including the performance related 'bonuses' as part of the 'basic wage' when they are doing their accounting.

I was taught it was good business to work on the basis that your 'equipment' would have a limited lifespan and it should be budgeted to replace it on a regular basis, and that trying to keep everything going by patching it up was a false economy as it would lead to falling efficiency and, potentially, catastrophic break-down. Aren't we supposed to have some of the best business brains in the country on our board? Maybe it just shows that there is a big difference between running a manufacturing business compared to a retail or service one.

We are still up shit creek financially and its more embarrassing the longer it goes on. Hull and championship teams spend more than we do on transfers.

We are crippled by total mismanagement of funds. Someone needs to get a handle on things but that won't happen under blue bill and his payday loans and sell to survive just one more year strategy. You can't keep replacing ageing players with free transfers and expect to compete.

As Someone who considers himself quite business savvy the state of our finances depresses and angers me greatly.

I can't believe that we'd be waiting for the Sky cheque to clear on Wednesday. Surely someone with a spare few million would spot us for a few days.

I just think we're negotiating and that takes time. Anything else would irresponsible.

Lyndon,

You say "As far as Fenerbahçe go, they reneged on the £5m deal. You can't force them to pay that much now two years down the road ". The problem I have with that is WHO sanctioned a second year's loan? If Fenerbahçe wouldn't stump up the money after one year, then Yobo should have been brought back and sold to the highest bidder, be it a Premier League, Championship side or a club from the Continent. That's the bit that's wrong.

Guys...do you not have experience of transfers? Because from some of the comments, it would seem so.

We obviously have monetary issues etc etc, but the prolonged nature of the Pienarr deal is hardly unusual. How long did Fabregas for on for? one of the most certain transfers in football in recent times, took over a year to complete. Or Berbatov? or Cahill? or Cole? I don’t see how a delay of a few weeks is such an issue for concern/disdain. I am surprised that we have actually moved so quickly..based on the evidence of recent seasons, I was not expecting Pienarr back unless we sold one of our star players.

Also, Kevin, what's your point about Yobo? Because Fenerbache rescinded on an offer..we can't sell for less? Yobo is not worth £5million euros..2.5 is good enough for him, and we would have received a loan fee for him. And getting 1million for Cahill, 32 years old, with a big wage and looking tired...doesn't seem like the worse deal in the world.

Just relax. We didnt go into this pre-season with many expectations, but we are looking like signing Naismith and Pienarr, and letting two older higher earners leave. We will probably bring in a couple of players on loan, and if we are not the victim of the usual predators, will conclude our best summer's business in a few years.

Right, we should have about the same buying power as the following clubs (according to 2011 figures relating to turnover/wage bill ratio:

Bolton
Blackburn
Fulham
Stoke
Sunderland
West Brom
West Ham
Wolves

Aston Villa would also be included in that list but they have an owner who is able to invest personally on players.

Source:
http://www.sportskeeda.com/2012/05/24/chart-showing-turnover-vs-wage-bill-in-the-premier-league

Ray, who says there were clubs offering for him? and don't forget, we can't just force Yobo to go to a Championship team. I'm also sure we recieved a loan fee for both his seasons in Turkey (and I'd be surprised if it wasnt in the region of 1million for each)

Jim, I haven't said that clubs were actually bidding for him. He was at Fenerbache. Why would clubs bid for him if he's on a years loan? However, in view of the fact that Huth and Senderos were both wanted by Premiership clubs, Huth for a reported £6m, do you honestly imagine no-one would be interested in the Nigeria captian who would then be 29-30? What I AM saying is that he should have been brought back and his availability been circulated to other Premiership clubs as soon as Fenerbache started to mess us around.. Aresenal were widely reported to have shown an interest in Yobo about three years ago and I refuse to believe that no-one else would have him in excess of the sort of fee Fenerbache are trying to get us to accept now. It is likely that we did receive a loan fee, or at least, we were promised a loan fee, following Fenerbaches disgracefull conduct over this business I would be pleasantly surprised if they parted with any money at all. Whether it was 1£1m a season is just your guestimate.

Obviously 1million a season is an estimate, but given the player, and the original deal, I expect such a figure was likely. Fenerbache would have also have paid a loan fee up front...there is a big different between going back on a supposed deal, and not paying a fee for a transaction...

And the idea of other clubs being interested is more complex than you suggest..we are firstly talking about clubs being interested who Yobo would wish to go to...Fenerbache offer the prospect of champions league footballer, and I don't think the captain of Nigeria is going to fancy battling to stay up with West Brom etc etc but whatever the potential situation, if clubs were interested, they would have been in contact with Yobo's agent and able to make offers. Why didn't they? maybe an error prone 30 year old dc who is lost to the African Cup of Nations for two subsequent seasons is not the attractive proposition you make out?

If an offer had been made for Yobo after he returned from loan the first time, then I'm sure we would have sold him. As it was, another loan deal given our strong centre back situation and the player's attitude, made sense.

Kevin - "The whole Pienaar situation has made us a laughing stock of the Premier League" and "Then you have the Yobo joke. The original deal was €5; they say no... so we go to €2.5M???" Where's all this laughing and joking coming from? Has it occured to you that it's EFC applying the pressure and not the other way round?

Spurs has a player who wants out back to EFC. I'd guess AVB wants to see the back of him ASAP, rather than start with yet another team with disgruntled players. And Yobo?? What are you talking about?

Fenerbache has the pressure on them, not us. He's a good defender, their Skipper and they're in the CL, for Christ's sake. I see in an article today, Yobo's been reduced to begging us to let him go and has gone home to await developments. Who's the pressure on?

I'd add that in general we have to keep in mind EFC, Spurs, and Fenerbache aren't just spending 8-10 hours every day negotiating over Piennar and Yobo. Dealings over them are only 2 of many concerns each club is dealing with daily. The fact is the negotiations continue and the deals will get done in good time.

By the way, YOUR Everton is a laughingstock. Not mine.

It's all too simple: you don't buy a big car unless you can afford to run it.

Kenwright caught the club with its pants down, and his poxy £20 mill (WHICH WAS ALL HE HAD!) was the epitome of the WRONG point in time, for someone to nick it.

He is STRONGLY reported to have been offered as much as 10 times that figure in later seasons when we started to really punch above our weight. Which was then the RIGHT time to sell... but because of the combination of his greed, and god-knows-what psychological reasons ("It's MY toy"?) he has clung on white-knucked to the reins, aided mostly in part by Moyes's survival skills.

The board almost unreally are worth a combination of a fair few billions. BUT they wont help him out (unless they are helping themselves – eg, Kirkby, Rooney) because he wants an extortionate profit, and to keep total control of his train set. Upshot has been his jasper grasping sweating hands selling off ALL our assets, except the players themselves (yet)...

Believe me – on this the banks are breathing down his neck like he is an iffy car franchise. The outcome I think will be eventually decided when he implodes, á la Rangers... but, before that ever happens, he will finally have to take the other board members' money to save his OTHER businesses.

Tom Dodds

Can you STRONGLY inform us as to WHEN and WHO it was who offered £200m for the club?

Can you rell us where and when it was reported?

Can you also tell us how you worked out that the board are worth a 'fair few billions'? And what the personal wealth is of the board members? I hope you are not mistaken in believing that Greene and Granchester are board members... because they are not. This is a common error.

I'd be fascinated to know because my information (Forbes) tends to suggest that while two of the board members are quite wealthy by OUR standards, they are paupers compared to the Sheiks and Oligarchs who run some clubs today.

I'm not necessarily defending BK here, but please don't make it up as you go along.

Dave Roberts. Re info, The Blue Union, Derek Hatton, Kenwright interview... and a combo of e-mail gaffs, contain the gist of the offer(s) info.

As for the other board members, they werent being compared to the people who own the planet's oil resources or a good part of, or a mafia don...

Re the board members, it's an irrelevance I think to verify their status, as to re-iterate again that they have enough money to run the club properly. The GIST of the way I see things, in my opinion, is that those people (Earl & Hard Rock; Green & High Street, Grantchester & Littlewoods) who are `hanging round the club` if you like? – They have got LOADS more money than this present shyster chairman, who they know is struggling (AND hurting the club going forward) and they are waiting for him to implode... take it or leave it.

What is common knowledge and hard fact, are the following shrouded shenannigans from the present chairman:

1. Kings Dock
2. Rooney, one of the biggest bargains in the history of modern football.
3. No-show of the Fortress Sports Fund money... again, Kenwright dosen't want partners.
4. Destination Kirkby & /Tescos
5. Bellefield money & the Finch Farm to let fiasco (fuckin' ravin', that one)
6. Ticket sales in hock for at least one year
7. Park End rebuild bollocks... Even the car park had been sold! (which buggered the ownership rights to the loan or some other legal wrangle).
8. Endless shameless transfer capitulations.
9. Gosling's 'Fagin' promises...

I'll hold it there, as I invite others at this point to add to what I've missed. I know things at the present time on the pitch are starting to bear fruit, and I hope against hope that it all does, and Moyes may yet still pull the rabbit out of the hat for him, but the banks still know he's as iffy as a dodgy car dealer.

And right now, they are the 'roadrunner'... and he's the 'coyote'...

Tom Dodds - You and Dave Roberts have at it.

Only want to comment on: "2. Rooney, one of the biggest bargains in the history of modern football"

Ugh! Too fucking true. The Kenwright legacy. The owner who gave away Rooney.

Again, Ugh!

Tom
Your list of perceived instances of mismanagement (and that's all they are) are more than balanced out by the very good things that this board and manager have done. With very little money they have turned around a club that should have been relegated and put into administration into one with an excellent if shallow squad and a brilliant development system that is producing some talented young players of our own. We are a club whose team, manager and board are respected throughout the footballing fraternity and we are up there with the best the best of the clubs who haven't sold their souls to the devil. They have done this by carefully managing their limited assets and have tried hard but unsuccessfully to find ways of solving the ground problem. We are in desperate financial trouble but would you prefer us to be a Championship side with less debt and our own training ground? No of course you wouldn't. Do you have anything constructive to say? No you don't. You are part of the Everon problem not the solution, a bitter minority who'd moan if we lost the Champions league final. BK is very much a fantasist and he is guilty of just saying what he thinks will endear people to him but I believe that he and the board are actually doing their very best to bring success to the club. They've made their mistakes but anything compared to Liverpool, Blackburn? The concept of criminal mismanagement or that the club isn't for sale is laughable and the fact that they don't put their own money into the club shows that they aren't daft. The sale of Rooney was a massive plus for the club, it's easy to look back on how he's done for United and to say that the price was too low but he wouldn't have played like that at Everton, he was injured and he was a risk.

Get behind the club FFS, show some support at a time when the club needs it. I've been an Evertonian for 50 years now and while I'm not a scouser I've always believed our fans to be knowlegable and tolerant and very much behind the team but I'm sometimes ashamed to be an Evertonian now; ashamed of the fans who gain us the reputation of "bitterness".

I haven't been to the game for a couple of years now mainly through working away, living down South and looking after an autistic daughter but I'm desperately trying to get a ticket for the United game and to start supporting the club again. If the Everton trust gets going I'll put my money where my mouth is too.

Aidy #440, if we can't use the Sky money come 1 August then we are further up Shit Creek than anyone expected, and without a canoe, never mind a paddle.

But the board must already know this as the Club will have already prepared the accounts for last season, so they will already know who has to be sold to pay off some of their debt.

Tom #593, Grantchester is not on the board and only owns 8% of shares , and by all accounts is not a 'friend' of Kenwright.

To the above or any of the other detractors of the way I see things re the Chairman's running of the club, I have been a season ticket holder in the Upper Bullens since the 90's, so I put my money into my club.

I'm not interested in what other clubs are doing. The fact that we are still afloat is more a testament to the manager, not the chairman, in MY opinion.

It's obvious by now that the very wealthy Grantchester, Earl, Green and whoever or whatever they are, are not putting so much as an fucking groat into the club... Period!

So why?? ....Well, I'm not repeating myself. Just know this: I'm about supporting my team and club, so if I perceive there's a bloody chancer running it, I'll call it.

Am I the only one who believes that Tom Dodds is Richard Dodd's evil twin?

Q) Who negotiates our transfers??...A) Trigger's even dimmer northern cousin

Why do we think other fans are laughing at us? I happen to live near to the richest club in the world that has brought no-one in during the transfer window, can't get rid of players they desperately don't want there, and has their manager questioning what the hell the person in charge of transfers is actually doing.

City fans are not laughing at us, believe me; they are instead moaning about the fact that they haven't yet spent another billion or so yet.

Martin Mason 615; I see you're at it again being the self-appointed wind-up merchant...Perceived instances of Mismanagement, the mind boggles.

Although Kenwright and Moyes are interlinked, for Kenwright, Kings Dock is enough on it's own to warrant throwing the key away, sins of commission.

You call Kenwright a fantasist, yet supporting the Club does not automatically mean supporting Kenwright or not having a go at him, especially when he needs it ( which is all the time )

News Flash: We ALL support the Club or we wouldn't be on here.

Moyes how ever, his sins are more sins of omission, omitting, on too many occasions to play to win instead of playing not to lose.

PS well done to your guy ( although he was a previous proven drug cheat ) for winning the Cycling Gold.

Jim Knightley @502

Jim. Let's be honest and face facts. The likes of Yobo, Yakubu, Asamoah Gyan et al, will play for the team who offers the most money.

All this talk about CL football is just a smoke screen. Asamoah Gyan is 26 and should be at his peak as a striker. He now plays for Al Ain in the UAE receiving up to four times his previous salary, despite having had a successfull spell at Sunderland playing in the Premier League that most player state as the desired location in which to display thier talents. And usually the most lucrative. Until the UAE start to beckon.

Yakubu, despite being only (an alleged!) 29 is playing at Guangzhou in China, that bastion of football, at a vastly increased wage. Yobo is just as much a mercenary as the other two and would go where the money is.

As for being "error prone", do you mean like Senderos and Huth, a player who gives away free kicks like like a Jehovah's Witness gives away Watch Towers? Or like Distin did at Wembley?

Sorry, mate, if we, as a club, had the will and the nous we wouldn't be having this discussion. Yobo would be off the books and we would be several million pounds better off, and possibly with a replacement in the team.

Derek@630

If I wanted to be a wind up merchant I could have a field day on here believe me. That I post something you don't agree with doesn't make me one and I'm not.

I use the word "perceived" over your list of mismanagement issues because like me you can only have a very scant knowledge of what actually happened. Unlike you though I'm able to see equally positive things that EFC have achieved in recent years under very severe financial restraints. I see even more positive things building now.

Martin; none of the participants in the ' reverse mortgage' fiasco have ever denied the facts in the ' no deal' that was Kings Dock, It was all about Bill and control... Oh and btw they're not 'my' facts perceived or otherwise they are just facts out there in the public domain.

All things being equal, would you take the chance on Bill selling out tomorrow or not? I would, we can't go on as we are.

Dear me Martin your use of perception really takes it, you perpetuate your singular belief that but for the grace of God we would have had other board members who would not have provided the club with record debts and they have steadied the ship and your repeated claims of administration are your own subjective analysis again without documented proof - the club appears closer to it now than pre BK so it would have to be some evidence you have there Martin. I've asked the question on these pages until I am blue in the face but will again. I challenge anyone to provide cast iron carved in granite evidence of ANYTHING a single board member has brought to the table to the benefit of the club - in light of the banning of AGMs, the record debt, the sell to service debts, the smallest squad in the EPL, the lack of appearances by a major shareholder at the ground for several years (given the chairman launched a snide character assassination against Gregg for just that), the Sky money arrives no matter whether the chairman was a chimp or a human being.

I've yet to be convinced or seen even a sliver of evidence beyond the bumping of gums of any acumen or benefit a single board member has brought to Everton Football Club. The same tired shennanigans of "get behind the club" isn't really an argument its a polarisation aimed to divide the support making one side appear better blues than the sheeple who don't question the mistakes, in a similar way the stay away fans were being blamed with the club's debt in another thread as if it was all their fault - hilarious.

To say we are a 'laughing stock' is a notion entirely generated by our own fanbase. We are not peforming to standards previously set during our long history. The media see us as over-achieving and we see ourselvs as under-achieving.

"It is what it is" does not mean we are passive in our anger and discomfort at our place in the EPL. We want more from an organisation that is unable to deliver due to finance. Frustrating, disappointing... but I see more hope this transfer window than this time last year.

Si #466, the TV money is paid in installments, but it's more complex than that I'm afraid.

Domestic TV revenue is split. 50% equally amongst all clubs (like an EPL member's fee), 25% based on appearances, 25% on final league placement. The member fee is paid out in 2 installments, August and January. TV money (facility fees) I think is paid as-and-when, and the prize money at season end.

The overseas TV deal is paid monthly. Currently worth around £18m a year, it used to be paid twice yearly, but post-Portsmouth, the EPL changed it to monthly to allow clubs to manage their finances better. Stop laughing at the back.

Gavin,

You are navel gazing and missing the big picture. Last year we finished 7th, above our high-spending neighbours, amongst the best of the rest despite being almost in the relegation positions at the turn of the year. We have a very exciting squad short of only a couple of positions to be CL place challengers. Can anyone possibly not see something positive in this considering our financial clout?

And who got us into this position? Why the board and management team; EPL survival for EFC is positive and I completely disagree that it's a fault of the board's that it doesn't throw its own money into the black hole. That elevates them in my opinion; recovery of the club has to be organic and sustainable not on the back of stupid money.

Accusations of mismanagement are subjective and opinionated, Everton finishing 7th was real, our squad is real and with Donovan and Pienaar in the team I'd put us against anybody. I fully support the board and Manager now, I absolutely castigate our supporters who drag the club down from within without a constructive suggestion between them, the Bitter Blue Brigade.

Of course we can get a better board and we can get vastly worse. A benefactor we aren't going to get so please support what we have – there isn't a credible alternative.

Martin - navel gazing?

Some shimmy shammy flimflam again and it still doesn't wash and as fully expected still doesn't answer the question but then again not one of BK's kiss arses ever has.

I'm still waiting for evidence to back up your preaching of the board's impeccable job in getting the team to where they are. I think you might find not a single one of them are on the touchline during any games and as pointed out and ignored before one of them isn't even in the same country never mind ground so love to hear how they make the squad perform - oh no that'll be the football manager Martin - you know that David Moyes chap, ginger hair, you can't miss him.

As you keep trumpeting this subjective bollocks ad nauseum, follow it up as asked with some cold hard facts Martin, I'm still waiting as to a single yes just a single credulous fact that shows where a single board member through their existence on the Everton board has been beneficial to the club. You still stand with the blame the fans who question bollocks too, are you sure you're not on the payroll or are you a friend of the club's positive media on a negative media spin company? They were really good fun.

Gavin, have you been drinking?

Tom #593 a very eloquent and erudite post, in my opinion.

My only observation would be that major shareholders are not required to put up the money, unless the company fails.

I'm gonna go all Public Image here, but I believe that the main reason BK won't sell (a price of £150m = not for sale) is he owes money off-balance.

"I could be wrong, I could be right"

Martin, #706, you are of course entitled to your view. Some may disagree, but rather than hide behind the lines in Kazak, or wherever, why not offer an alternative opinion? Rebuttal gets boring. Speak out!

Martin, Matt has a point, instead of just coming on and defending the board members, answer the points Gavin makes from (#653).

I know we are skint. So I don't get too excited until I see him in a Everton shirt. I take all rumours with a pinch of salt. But my gripe is when the chairman comes out publicly and states "Watch this space" etc etc. Any other club takes 2 to 3 days to have them signed & sealed. Our medicals run on and on. Would any club just shake hands on it (Manny) and say, "See you in a few weeks"? No, they would have got him signed up before he left the country.

Martin (#706) - 'Accusations of mismanagement are subjective and opinionated' - as subjective and opinionated as this next statement perhaps? - 'We have a very exciting squad short of only a couple of positions to be CL place challengers.'

Consider some of your other statements - 'I completely disagree that it's a fault of the board's that it doesn't throw its own money into the black hole. That elevates them in my opinion; recovery of the club has to be organic and sustainable not on the back of stupid money.' followed shortly by, 'I absolutely castigate our supporters who drag the club down from within without a constructive suggestion between them'. How about this for a constructive suggestion - why don't some of our very wealthy board members / shareholders / friends of BK invest some money to bring in the couple of players that you consider is all it would take to be Champions League place contenders, or is that your definition of throwing money into a black hole? You can't claim we are on the cusp of being successful and then make out it would require a reckless billionaire to buy a couple of players.

Simple fact is that the club is unlikely to recover financially without some success in the cups or in Europe, and the attendant merchandising and promotional opportunities that would follow. However well we have done, we have to do a little bit better in the future to make it all worthwhile, and that is the responsibility of the current Board and their backers.

Thanks Matt (#669) for your elucidation.

What a silly Original post! Sorry, Kevin, but... 'Laughing stock'? Why? There has been bugger all transfer activity so far this Summer at most Clubs. Even Man City have yet to make a purchase.

Naismith is here, Pienaar will be soon, still over a month to go, Sky money starts coming in on Wednesday, why pay £400k in wages for 2 months of doing nothing to a £50k a week player?

Very naive post. Yes we are frustrated, but it's like this every year and not just at Everton.

And for anybody thinking I am some sort of defender of the Board, I'm not. Gavin Ramjekis nails most of it in terms of their paltry investment in the Club and Matt Traynor alludes to the real reason BK won't sell at a sensible price – he owes more than that to one Spurs supporting, tax dodging Retail tycoon, but that's not actually got much to do with the timings of our transfers this Summer in all honesty.

Gavin@653
You've been answered many times mate, you just aren't listening. The positive thing that the current board and management team have brought to the table is that they have stabilized the club, they have changed us from a team constantly in danger of relegation to a team that is normally amongst the best of the rest in the EPL. We have played some decent European football and we have established an academy that is producing youngsters good enough to enable us to sell to survive which is our only strategy. They have done this by hard graft because it certainly wasn't by spending and you have to drop the fantasy of the board putting money into EFC, they would be barking mad if they did and if they all threw away every penny they own into the club it wouldn't be enough. FFS though, it's like "what have the Romans ever done for us."

I don't give the board unconditional support but I'll naturally defend them from some of the rubbish thrown at them here. I will give them some credit for keeping the club afloat too, in the end that is the ultimate positive thing that they do. Remember too, most of the EFC board are top business men in their own right and the vast majority of the posters on here know nothing, they own the club and we don't. They are the only option and they hold all of the cards.

I personally think the club should be applauded for once, they have got in two value for money players in positions where we are desperate, and have moved on one high earner with dexterity and discretion.

I'd only drop them a mark for Moyes coming out publically and declaring he was getting Pienaar because this strengthened Spurs hand to ask for more. Should have kept quiet and let Pienaar agitate for the move. Apart from that first class.

Just need to swap Phil Neville for Landon Donovan now and we'll be ready for a crack at the title.

Martin (#913), since you came back to this thread why didn't you try answering the points I made about the claims you made, or am I one of "the vast majority of the posters on here" that "know nothing". Of course the inference is that you are one of the small minority that actually know anything, and so we are supposed to accept your unsubstantiated statements without question.

Whatever you credit the current board with you cannot possibly know that someone else would not have done better, so fans of EFC have the right to question the level of achievement and the future prospects of the club. It is nothing like "what have the Romans ever done for us?", which is probably the most assinine assertation I have ever seen posted on this site.

Justify your statements; tell us how this Board is going to keep the club going without some investment going forward.