What would they be saying right now? Can't see the BU posting rumours, á la every daily paper in Liverpool in closed season.

Likely they're waiting to see how closed season ends.

Jimmy, spot on, mate. The BU shoud have kept the pressure on if they want change. The pressure's got to be on 24/7 365 days a year – not stopping if we have a good cup run, win a few games, sign a few players – nor should it stop for pre-season.

The BU have got to up their game big time.

What a pointless thread - the Blue Union is perfectly active - as confirmed by their recent e mail. Just because you live in the outback shouldn't mean you don't hear from them. Why not sign up for their e mails instead of showing yourself up on here? And surely you cant be happy with whats happening at Everton at present - broke yet again and unable to raise paltry sums for new players. Who knows if you took more interest in the Blue Union you might actually find they are trying to make the club better.

More to the point it's been over a year now ( I think ) since TrustEverton and still nowhere to send my cash. How long does it take to dot i's, cross t's, get ducks in a row ?? I have money for you and I don't live in Nigeria.

Mick - I don't think it is a pointless thread at all. The original poster makes a valid point and your response highlights the issue. You suggest that people need to sign up for emails and that they need to take more interest in the BU. Therein lies the problem. The BU are a pressure group trying to bring about change. It is their job to convince people to join them and to keep the pressure on the board. To do this successfully they need to be in the public eye. As such, it is not the job of fans to make it their own responsibility to ensure they are on a mailing list to find out what's happening but rather the job of BU to raise awareness and convert the sceptics.

I think that the Blue Union can't do it on their own. While I agree that they should continue shouting loud enough on a regular basis to be heard, I also agree with the idea that an empty can makes the most noise. In order for them to be making proper informed statements, as well as putting pressure on the club, they should be doing more to get information from fans. But, I think that the fans should be doing their bit too.

The Blue Union is there for the right reasons and is around long enough for fans to know they exist. If we want a focal point around which to try to exercise change for the better within the club then we as fans should try to do our share of the work as well and look to engage with the likes of the Blue Union.

While I think that the Blue Union should have spent some of the close season to consolidate and build up a support base with the fans, I do also think that the boring and dull close season was an ideal opportunity for fans to search out the blue union and work with them as well.

I appreciate that the Blue Union needs to step up their efforts but in fairness their don't exactly have the resources of a multinational conglomerate.

Kieran (629) presents one of the most balanced posts I have seen on the Blue Union. Their intentions are good, they draw attention to their perception (and many other perception) of the clubs financial predicament, and like many others they want the club to be run more effectively and to have more money - the latter points are obvious ones and a given if you care anything for the club.

For me and maybe a few others it is a step to far to associate or support a group which from what I have observed and read has little chance of being effective and does not have a manifesto or blue print as an alternative to the current status quo - or should I say does not have a manifesto or blue print that is convincing enough to attract the direct support of people such as myself. Now run the risk of being accused of a lack of action, ineptitude even appeasement of the current regime, but until someone comes up with something better, I will stick with BK and Moyes. Blue Union should continue to protect as see what forms and evolves - you never know.

A group of ordinary fellas with ordinary jobs used their own time and money to bring pressure to bear.

They could do no more than reveal the unsuitability of Kenwright and report his Neroisms "every club wants to be run like us" etc.

Names never seen or heard of since appeared on forums shouting "they taped it!" as though fans could be diverted that easily.

But Goodison applauded Kenwright's visage on the big screen and the game was up. Bill being blue was amnesty for anything as long as the "R" word remained at bay.

It ain't the Blue Union that needs to up it's game, it's the rank and file supporter who find excuses for every million wasted and refuse to see what is in plain view.

Loyalty to the club is NOT about allowing incumbents owning the most shares or sitting in the managers chair unfettered control - it is the complete opposite.

The standard should be ONE THING :

"restore the AGM"

Mike Wench (618) it's not pointless maybe the Blue Union are showing the typical apethetic attitude of the majority of our fanbase.

Well said Barry!

Good points Barry. As for the OP, what a ridiculous position to adopt. Sit back and tell the BU what to do? It doesn't matter whether you're in Oz or Walton, sitting on your arse and expecting the BU to change the complexion of the club week by week and complaining when there are quiet spells is ludicrous. We could instead be directing our attention to the pre-season situation. Whilst we pull out of an iffy tournament, the RS are playing Tottenham and Chelsea are playing AC Milan. Our next game is Blackpool is it not?
Lyndon, tell me this is just a 'Devil's Advocate' post article put out because there's nothing else to discuss.

The amateurish blue union are held in contempt by the club.

Wishful-thinking, shouty, 'pie-in-the-sky,' merchants.

When Kenwright eventually departs and the new
owners open up the can of worms that is
Everton Football Club under this regime many
will say yes I supported the Blue Union, until the
Fan base wake up and realise what this bunch of
Shysters who control the club are doing to the club
The Blue Union I'll always be pissing into the wind.
I am sick to death of the careful what you wish for brigade.
Everton are a big,massive football club being run like the
Local corner hop.
Kenwright and his cronies must be forced out,

Anybody who disagrees with BU & supports the current regime are perfectly entitled to their opinion, although I'd be interested in the thinking behind such a point of view. Likewise anybody who may be critical of BU, even if they may have similar views. However, in the latter case I'd suggest that, rather than carping from the sidelines, it would be more productive to get involved & improve the effectiveness of BU or else try to initiate a more effective alternative.

As for criticisms regarding BU being amateurs – well, what a statement of the bleeding obvious! BU at least have the excuse of being supporters doing this in their spare time, pooling what little expertise they may have between them... What excuse is there for the amateurish performance of our Board & the professionals they employ to run our club so badly? Regardless of which players are on the park, or even who the manager in the dug-out is, the Board is the great millstone for our club & we won't progress until there are changes at that level.

Let's not forget — only for these persons, who in my opinion, represent us very very well, we'd be watching our football team in a retail park in Kirkby.

"Wishful-thinking, shouty, 'pie-in-the-sky,' merchants." Kevin (644) you have nailed it.

What a perfect description of the Everton Board

I have read many comments on why individuals are against the B.U. - their methods, ideas, the marches etc, that's fair enough. You don't have to agree with their ideas on how to protest.

Anyone who can honestly look at the affiars of the club, & the way this board refuse to invest one single penny of their money, saddle the club with debt, and have no plans to improve the ground etc. are deluded individuals.

If you don't believe our board are in this to make a killing, by holding out for a massive pay-day from the sale of this club, then you have no right to question the motives of fans who have nothing to gain by exposing the idiots who run the club.

if we have a poor start to the season there will be plenty of people criticising the board and management who will want to support the BU. Until then few will want to know. This threatens to make BU representative of the disappointed fan rather than a group presenting alternative approaches we can all buy into.

We all hate losing, love winning, most of us are fickle. Changing things needs people to look past all this but as that is what most fans like about the game this is unlikely to happen.

"The amateurish Blue Union are held in contempt by the club."

So what? So are the supporters.

Anyway, the Blue Union are amateurs and don't profess to be otherwise.

How can they be criticised for this when Bill Kenwright and the Everton board's portrayal of professional competence is about as convincing as William Schatner trying to act 'authoritative' whilst wearing a toupee that looks like it was grown on an arl dosser's gooch. 

It must be clear to anyone who has seen our club spiral into the inefficient, break-even if we are lucky, club that it is now, that under BK's guidance the ship does not have someone in charge who knows anything about running a football club.

Kenwright's comments and actions over the years have been the actions of an incompetent. Some of his statements have been laughable and embarrassing: "Only Newcastle fans buy shirts", "No-one is buying football clubs in this climate", "I am the best salesman Everton could ever want" etc — all smack of a deluded self-opinionated clown who believes his own hype so much that he could never accept that his methods are inadequate.

Advertising is non-existent (Liverpool Airport etc), sponsorship deals are bottom-end quality, fan relationship has hit an all-time low... if it wasn't for DM keeping us in the top 10 with no budget, I would hate to think where we would be now.

Kevin I don't think anyone's motives are above question in any walk of life.

Keiran #629, you make some good points but I think one of the fundamental problems the BU face is a fractured fan-base. The fracture happened during the ill-fated move to Kirkby and the furious "debate" that was witnessed on these pages was probably typical of the feelings of the fanbase as a whole.

That in itself probably reinforced support for the BK regime.

I don't agree with everything that BU has tried to do, but I am broadly supportive of their aims and objectives, and commend their efforts to date. Having attended a couple of the meetings, it's been obvious there's a "militant minority" who would rather be more direct, and destructive - the BU has to manage how they protest so as not to lose the credibility. It's pointless to observe (as some have) that they are despised by the club - of course they would be - as any agent of change would. The sad thing is that no matter what happens, they'll be some fans who are entrenched now as a result of how things developed under Kim Jong Bill's regime. But that's how dictators stay in power, divide and conquer. Ultimately the BU want us to be able to compete on and off the pitch, and their supporters have the same desire. Their repeated mantra is to oppose stagnation, and I don't see that as being wrong.

Oh, and back to the OP - the BU has a website - you can contact them if you really want to know what they're up to.

You don't have to be pro Blue Union but anyone who thinks the current board are good for the club needs a slap round the face and strong cup of coffee.

Steve #650, I've used that corner shop analogy before. We have Arkwright at the top pleading poverty, and Granville managing us dreaming of what might be, whilst serving the same loyal customer base.

I don't blame Kenwright for not having the money to take us forward. But I do believe he and the others bought the club with a good idea of how the Premier League was changing - he'd been a director long enough to know how things were developing. Therefore I firmly believe he's in it to make a killing - the oft-quoted price - by his own appointed agents by the way - would seem to make that obvious.

I wouldn't begrudge him the money back for his shares, but I suspect the reason he's after the payday is the money he owes to third parties that isn't on the books. It is only a supposition on my part, but there has to be a reason for the sky high price - it's not even a bargaining chip price.

Nick Waters,

Pithy.

John Daley,

There's a BIG difference between "being an amateur," and acting in an amateurish fashion.

(Eg: Creepy cake-carrying clown / nebulous manifesto, leaked meeting, etc..)

This is what I was alluding too. I know the BU are not 'in the business.'

Matt Traynor,

You say: "It is pointless to observe (as some have) that they are despised by the club."

I have to strongly disagree.

The BU have made great play of their stated desire to work with the club. Therefore, common sense would suggest that it would be vital for them not to be held in contempt, in order to foster said working relationship.

It's all well and good all the Kenwright knockers saying get rid of the board.

What I want to hear from you people is a viable alternative? Don't give me "Kenwright has to sell" because he hasn't, he put his time and money in and he and he can sell at his price!

That's how business works.

The BU has lost whatever credibility it had by deciding only to protest when the team is down, exactly the opposite of what you would anticipate a supporters group to do. They are a small minority of fans, they do not represent Evertonians and whatever they have they don't have any credible ideas for how the club can pull itself out of the mess it's in. They and their supporters also work under the tragic delusion that only they can see the big picture and that the vast majority of fans are "apologists" and idiots. Staggering arrogance.

They don't represent me or any one I know.

Barry at 633 - Good post.

Jimmy (OP) :Are the BU meant to give a running commentary on all things Everton? Give over.

Colin at 702 "Kenwright has put his time and money in". Not so. Did he not borrow using the money of Paul & Anita Gregg, and when they fell out (because the Greggs wanted control as they were able to stump up the money for Kings Doock) he bought them out using money from someone else - was it Sir Philip Green?

Martin at 703: "They don't have any credible ideas for how the club can pull itself out of the mess." Not true. One suggestion by one of their leading members is to sell the club for the value of the club's debt - which continues to grow as assets to offset it are sold off. Or another suggestion - appoint an independent advisory board to establish a correct price for the club's sale and identify credible potential purchasers. That is a role seemingly occupied by Spurs-supporting Philip Green at the moment.

Our club is a shambles, a disgrace, going down the pan. We can't even make a purchase of one player until we sell off another one; a player, incidentally, we sold just 18 months ago because we would afford to give him a pay rise and the money from the sale staved off trouble from the banks for six months.

Martin: What is the big picture that I can't see?

Oh and (8) or was it (9): 'It's all well and good all the Kenwright knockers saying get rid of the board. What I want to hear from you people is a viable alternative?"

Martin #703, so you'd support the BU if the performance was bad? I see... someone who is blind to the real problem. The BU have not personalised the issue. I think, sir, you are an antagonist.

Barry Rathbone, spot on, I`m afraid the only time we would ever see numbers demonstrating is when it is too late, Evertonians are a lazy lot and very easily pleased, one week he gets booed, the next he is cheered, based on how the mood was in the ground those two weeks, one week we were shit the other we had just scored and were playing well.

It has been said in this thread, if we have a bad start the mood will swing and that sums it up really.

Matt@720

I'd support the BU if they ever get a clue not if the team's performance is bad

Chris@717

The board decides what it does not the BU. The BU is a minority fan group not a club stakeholder

I still can't believe that after all this time, there is still someone who believes that BK has put his own money into the club.

Colin George (702) - 'you people'!?

To use a well known Everton chant - who the fucking hell are YOU?

You say..

"What I want to hear from you people is a viable alternative?"

Then (in case you get an answer you don't like) you add..

"Don't give me "Kenwright has to sell" because he hasn't, he put his time and money in and he and he can sell at his price! That's how business work"

Well...yeah that's how business works - if you want to put things in the most simplistic fashion (while assuming every business works exactly the same way).

But ok, we'll do it your way.

Here's a rule of business - if you lose enough customers, eventually your business doesn't exist any more - agreed?

Well given we've lost 4-5 thousand over the past 5 years or so, when exactly ARE we allowed to panic?

(by the way, exactly how much 'money' has Kenwright put in? I was under the impression he'd put in absolutely nothing).

Martin Mason (703) - You seem to set a lot of store by what 'the majority' think and suggest questioning them shows 'staggering arrogance'.

Why? - I believe the majority, in every walk of life SHOULD be questioned.

In fact the majority have a shite record

More people bought the NOTW than any other Sunday paper.

More people buy the Sun than any other paper.

The Majority of British MP's said Hitler didn't want war.

The Majority of French military experts thought the Maginot line would keep the Germans out.

More people watch Eastenders than any other TV show.

The Daily Mail website gets more hits than any other newspaper.

The majority appeared to be applauding BK.

If you want to try using 'you're in the minority' you should first check how many times the majority have fucked up and how many times they take the idiot choice.

It's funny how many seem to know exactly where the BU are going wrong, given there are very few suggestions (from 'these people') of how things might be changed.

Truth is, everyone can be 'cool' when there's no problem RIGHT THIS MINUTE but I'm convinced if the shit REALLY hit the fan, no one would be screaming louder than many of those currently slagging those attempting to address future problems, now.

The Blue Union for me are fair-weather protesters. When we are winning or making good signings, they are silent. When we are loosing or all is quiet on the transfer front, out they come louder then ever. I know people will say "read our newsletter, we are ever present" etc... but that is exactly my point. If you are making a real protest, I shouldn't have to pro-actively go in search of you; you would be in my face just as you were when things were bad.

I don't agree with the protests. I personally feel that BK is doing all he can in the current conditions and we would be hard hard pressed to find a better man for the job at present.

Each to their own but I feel supporters should be behind the club no matter what. Not singing "If you know your history" on FA Cup Semi-Final day and "Sack the Board" next week when we loose at home to Bolton.

Let's drop the Blue Union and start a real union. One that is united in backing the club come rain or shine. COYB

I can see a few possibilities here:

1 - You genuinely think that Kenwright and the Board are doing a good job, or at least, their best.

2 - You are not arsed how the club is run at board level. You turn up to the match and don't care if its in the top flight or Div 3.

3 - You worry about how the club is run but don't like the campaining style of the Blue Union.

4 - You worry about how the club is run but think that there is nothing the fans can do. The Board will do as they please.

5 - You worry about how the club is run and want to do something about it because sitting on your backside is not an option as the clubs slides ever closer to oblivion, selling assets, shrinking the squad and taking expensive short-term mortgages against next season's tv money in order to pay off more of the debt, which never gets any smaller. So you get behind the Blue Union.

How about the viable alternative of having a share issue. Maybe use the funds to invest in the stadium.

Of course not. That would involve the dilution of the board's shares. A loss of power.

Bill does have options.

The BU is simply an amalgamation of several groups of supporters brought together by a common cause. As far as serving a minority of match-going supporters is concerned, I'm not really convinced that is true at all. For instance, there is no equivalent internet group supporting the board or countering the BU anywhere. Indeed on every single thread I've read, BK's support is very much a minority view on every supporter's website.......

Of course the fickle-minded will to and fro with every result, but that's not the point. I didn't see anyone boo them or lambast them at any of the marches..... Indeed many simply clapped them as they passed. Almost all of my match-going mates want BK to step aside, yet only a few would ever bother marching...... It doesn't mean they don't agree with the BU's cause, they've just lost interest in the protest or going the match at all. Thousands have even voted with their feet to stay away altogether.

Moyes may manage to shape a decent side on the meagre crumbs he's given, and you never know, we may even have a decent start for once.... but none of Moyes's miracle-working on a shoestring should disguise the gross incompetence and impotence of the current regime. These people have pushed this club right to the verge of administration with no viable medium- or long-term plan, other than selling everything that isn't nailed down, to keep them in place till the richest sucker pays them off handsomely for their lack of investment.

None of this has been BU's making yet some still seem blissfully ignorant..... and would rather slag the messenger. How much further do we have to fall in this league's natural pecking order?

Chris #736 you didn't finish your option 5 - then what?

Graeme,

I support Everton...... not the board. Therefore I can quite happily slag the board and list its failings and still sing "If you know your history" at the same time without any reservation. Indeed if you knew your history, you would know that the club ended up at Goodison precisely because the board is only ever a transient construct... They are custodians only, we are the goodwill!!!

Graham Sullivan (736) says..

"Let's drop the Blue Union and start a real union. One that is united in backing the club come rain or shine. COYB"

What a brilliant plan!

How come nobody has thought of this before?

It is quite simply genius and I for one think it solves all our problems.

Posh announcer: "And the gold medal in the men's freestyle eye-rolling and tutting goes to Eugene Ruane".

The Colin George line is interesting... Every word of it is interesting

I've never read a post before by anyone called Colin George on here and I don't think im ever going to read one again.

The "you people" gave it away, maybe try the name Ima Plant in future Col or whoever you are....

Graeme Sullivan

"Each to their own but I feel supporters should be behind the club no matter what."

Really, I mean REALLY!!!!!!

Dear, dear me

Graham #733

"I personally feel that BK is doing all he can in the current conditions and we would be hard pressed to find someone who wants to make tens of millions out of a club he professes to love, whilst running it into the ground."

There – fixed it for you.

Eugene - very funny!

Perhaps the question should be what defines Everton?

It's history? Goodison? The players? The fans?

Or have the "dream team" of BK and Moyes somehow eclipsed all of that and therefore any hint of criticism becomes deeply offensive to the sensibilities of many on this site?

To be honest I'm ambivalent when it comes to BK and view him as neither Saint or sinner.

However, I think history has shown that we should beware anyone who through self-aggrandisement claims to solely represent the many.

BU hold people who are merely temporary custodians of our great Club accountable for their actions... for that I think they deserve our thanks.

Martin! there you are. You've just been battered on another thread... go back and defend yourself – or do we have to do it on this thread too?

Nelson Mandela was branded a terrorist by almost every world leader, and most MPs. When he was released, he was suddenly the world's hero.

Similarly, if the BU managed to oust the present Junta and the future was orange, how many of those who denigrated them and their actions would be jumping for joy at how they supported them and all they stood for? I guarantee most of them.

To me, the BU – of which I have no connection or affiliation – are supporters, who want the best for the club and stand to gain nothing personally. That is why I sympathise with them, and if they've gone a little quiet, surely this has something to do with the lack of football matches and also the school hols and jollies abroad.

I advise all of you who criticise those trying to raise the issues that are stifling our club's progress to look at the success of Man City and even our red neighbours to see where positive protest can result in regime change.

Michael (755) - to be honest, this thread is my first after the summer break.

Basically it's my Austria.

A bit of gentle verbal stretching and running followed by 6-0 win against an Austrian 2nd division side.

Then I hope to get involved with some tougher threads over the next couple of weeks, concentrating on spelling, grammar and sarcasm (plus I'll be staying back for extra work on other people's use of 'their' and 'there').

I had intended next week to get involved in a post about whether a trip to Indonesia was wise or not but it...got cancelled (I know it's not perfect but currently trying to arrange something last minute with Dave Wilson).

The important thing is to get off to a good start and hit TW running for the United game.

Eugene #743 – to be fair, the BU have thusfar failed to solve any problems and simply seem to have succeeded in polarising opinions even more amongst the fan base.

I'm looking forward to the Man U game when the Street End lead the chants of "What do we want? A group of experienced business people appointed to act as shadow directors to sell the club. When do we want it? As soon as such a group of experienced individuals can be found and can then ensure that they act in a manner which doesn't contravene the fiduciary duties of the actual legal directors."

Richard@759 "battered" on another thread? I can remember being savaged by dead sheep but missed being battered. Which thread was this?

Everyone you have ever been on Martin, you pathetic wind up merchant.

Bobby@783

Please restrict your comments to the subject, point out where I'm wrong and don't resort to ad hominem.

Please go to the "other thread", you'll see that I answered the points that I was "battered" on.

Kevin #692, my point is that the BU did try to build bridges with the club. They had a meeting with the Chairman. That meeting wasn't tape recorded - an ongoing myth perpetuated by some, including that bastion of Scouse virtue Hatton (any school fields for sale for 20p? Pink slips by taxi?) But it's churlish to suggest the majority shareholders would welcome a lobby group asking them to sell their shares for a realistic value.

Martin #720, I agree that BU messed up when the protest was cancelled after we got to the semi in the FAC. But I also think they were caught between a rock and a hard place on that.

What's up? Bill still working 24/7 isn't he to try and sell the club?

That man puts in a lot of hours...

Chris L at 741 asks me to amplify my last point - if you support the BU what happens next. Fair question and basically it goes back to the point of the original post.

There is only so much the BU can do. People are correct on here that the board still hold all the cards. All the BU can do is slowly chip away at the Board's remaining support by highlighting their incompetence, their ridiculous valuation of the club, and the weakening state of the club. Eventually enough supporters will have had enough that the critical mass will be reached where the board's position is untenable. When that will be I don't know. I hope it happens before we get sucked down to who knows where.

There are plenty of blues in the first two categories I mentioned earlier (was it 736?) and as others on here have said, plenty of blues who still actually support the board. The Board retain the support of the local papers, and the local media - not least as one of the main radio station's principal commentators is actually an employee of the club so not impartial. At some point, again I know not when, the media will cotton on to the poor stewardship of the club and when that becomes the story things will likely change too.

I make one plea: supporting the club is not the same as supporting the Board. You can be loyal to Everton and want the board out. Kenwright is not Everton FC.

Like many other ToffeeWebbers, I firmly believe that BK has survived so long only because his manager has been able to keep Everton in a very respectable position in the Premier League over his 10-year tenure.

Whilst Moyes constantly receives criticism for "not taking the Club to the next level" in comparison with most of his predecessors and virtually all of his fellow managers of clubs without benefactors, he has worked miracles. Had he not been able to do so, Kenwright would have been toast a long time ago. Once EPL income levels fell dramatically – or disappeared altogether – I suspect our man would have been rushing to accept the legendary £1 for his stock before the whole lot fell about his ears.

Over the years, I have received many lectures on the Chairman`s failings, the greatest of which must be his failure to re-locate our stadium to the iconic King`s Dock site. The DK project – which in commom with at least 50% of regular matchgoers I voted for – was a very poor substitute and duly failed to expressions of relief all round. But, having said this, I have to admit that it took the Blue Union intervention – or, more accurately, BK's response to it – to remove the scales from my eyes!

Now I have to admit I am no lover of demos, shouting matches and clandestine recording of 'confidential' meetings but how the hell you can have a confidential meeting with a band of supporters is beyond me! Both before, during and after that fateful assignation, our Chairman behaved like a buffoon and will, I suspect, continue to do so throughout his time in office.

His theatricals no longer convince anyone – EVEN ME – and the Blue Union must continue to push and probe in the hope that they will shame the man into recruiting suitably qualified talent to the Board – AT THE VERY LEAST!

I have no hope of the Club attracting 'a proper billionaire', so my aspirations continue to be modest in the extreme. In the meantime, I hope and pray that Moyes will stay loyal – and if that means having to put up with Kenwright, so be it!

Matt,

It may have started out 'all sweetness & light,' but the point I originally made was that it has dramatically gone south now.

Therefore, in terms of actually effecting substantive change, I'm doubtful that they will make any iota of difference.

Matt #677, and Nurse Gladwys Emmanuelle must be Phil Green.

Bobby Thomas:

Yellow card and final warning — quit with the name-calling, alrite?

I absolutely despair when I still read Evertonians defending Kenwright. Every summer that passes shows what a complete mess we're in.

Every year we hear people on here, in the press, and on the telly, debating why Everton can't start well. No-one seems to raise the point that the complete lack of transfer funds and selling of star players sucks all the life out of the club and deflates everyone. Who's fault is that?

Right now we're supposed to be rejoicing because we've managed to scrape the money together to sign Pienaar. Moyes's net spend will still be a big fat zero. Yet the group who are still protesting against Everton's current owners and the way the club is run receive the criticism.

Eugene, I'll be "dissapointed" if you don't pick on people for there/their poor spelling and granma.

Ray, I would of thought EJ would of more concerns about the increase have writing in a slurred speech pattern — utilising have instead have of (or similar)...

I’m not a fan of the BU but I understand why they feel as they do. If I’m honest, they add nothing at all to our current situation.

I have said this a thousand times on this site: BK doesn’t own EFC, he never has – just 27% at the last count – yet so many clever people in the BU choose to attack the man that is actually a patsy for the remaining shareholders.

EFC was very close to being sold this year, I have that on good authority but I can't get to the bottom of why it didn’t happen. The only explanation I was given was the legacy fund that EFC Directors want left behind for future investment, which from a fans perspective is great but, as a business sale, is complete fantasy. We must be careful not to sell at any cost as the evidence is there for everybody to see that more takeovers fail long-term than actually succeed so caution is needed.

BK and the board have made massive mistakes and Kings Docks was the worst, Destination Kirkby was a natural option for the board and from their prospective it was a good deal. The reason why we fail all the time is simple: we have no cash and we generate very little (if any) over and above what the players take out; that’s where all our money goes – to the players, not the Directors.

BK is a fan and to me that’s his biggest weakness; he takes no money out of the club – not even expenses – which is unique. His only value is his shareholding so, from a business front, he has every right to get what he can.

Let me give you one example of poor business from EFC: pricing kid’s season tickets at £95! I have bought one for my son who is 8 in the main stand next to me in a premium seat; he will attend between 5 and 7 games all season. I paid £175 last year, spot market; I’m £80 up and the seat will be empty for 12 games. On the walk-up market, that seat would generate £760 maximum, yet EFC choose to let fans have it for such a low price... great for a fan but terrible business practise.

Basically what I’m trying to say is we aren’t as bad off as we make out and fans need to invest more too, along with the board. We are no longer a big club, and we need to understand that as a whole, so we can build up again. The first way is to increase season-ticket and entry prices and invest the extra income in the stadium: every extra £100 on a price of a season ticket generates £2.2 million pounds and that increases the more season-ticket holders we have.

I’m sure people like Tom Hughes could explain exactly how that money could be used every year to improve Goodison Park which again improves cash flow. It may take a while but if the BU made that sort of conscientious pitch to the fans and the board we may just have a starting point to move forward together.

Attacking the owners in this form is pointless as we and the owners have no clear alternative in the form of a new buyer so we have to do it ourselves – that’s the way the BU should be approaching this problem. Increasing merchandising and third party income doesn’t go to our bottom line – that’s why I have chosen the only area that does. You may not like it but it’s a real option for us all: pay up or shut up, welcome to the real world.

Alan # 931,

The cost of a season ticket is not going to solve the financial crisis the club faces. You are correct in stating the fans should do more and save the club from oblivion though.

The answer is a rights issue, and the current board can dilute their shareholding - this would provide the club with a massive cash injection, free up funds for players and actually save the club money on their pay-day loans.

A clever fellow such as yourself should be able work out why we have not been offered this option.

Alan@931 - Good analysis

Alan
Kevin is spot on, as I'm sure you well know — both with the obvious efficacy of a rights issue and his reason that our {Sarcon} altruistic {Sarcoff} Board will never consider such.

"Let me give you one example of poor business from EFC..."

Would you like some more?
How long have you got?

Hi Kevin... but as was started in the Kirby enquiry in the club's own documents, the current directors have no intention of diluting or selling their shares.

Alan, I would be very worried if Martin believes you've made a good analysis!!

Alan #931, I'd rather ask the board how they were going to secure the £76 million to build Desperation Kirkby and why can't 15% of that source be used to fund a new end with corporate facilities and increased capacity that would raise additional revenue and increase the value of the Club?

Alan,

Kenwright's the chairman, he is the public face of the board. He is allowing the others to stay in the background, which means he is (probably unfairly) kopping all the flak, and they are getting off scot-free. But all he has to do is sell his share, or expose the reasons why he can't sell (i.e. Philip Green is calling the shots as it's his money and he wants a return on it), and the focus will move onto these people.
In the meantime, Kenwright out!

Alan

The BU are primarilly a focus for protest I don't get the idea that they can do anything beyond voice fans criticism particularly as Bill knocked the usual route, AGMs, on the head.

Bill should be chased for this if nothing else it is scandalous peoples loyalty is taken for granted. Falling attendances and interest, the ever growing gap between us and the competitive clubs means a ton of questions need answering - not least why the reputed deal you mention (one among many I might add) fell over.

I'm very suspicious about Bill being the only boy not taking a wage he's a business man there has to be profit in it, simply has to be. He either knows his shares are gilt edged due to the number of potential buyers he knocks back and/or his REAL theatre business benefits tremendously by his association with EFC. Doing stuff gratis for 12 years??? I think not.

The season ticket giveaway is just symptomatic of the paucity of what his chairmanship has brought - the demand is not there (never thought I'd say that about EFC) so if he's a patsy he's there by choice - your own anecdote shows he could sell.

Until he answers the questions or improves his performance he deserves the flak, the buck stops etc.

Richard, when all else fails read the enquiry report :-). Try para 17.8.11 and 5.3.3

More misinformation Martin, you seem very reluctant to answer the question as to who testified that the Club is for sale at the Desperation Kirkby Inquiry.

Now we know that the Club themselves testified that the shareholders were not looking to sell their shares, and that the Inquiry stated in those paragraphs you quote that their finding is the Club WAS for sale.

So the Inquiry obviously did not believe the Club statement of non-sale, so who was it they DID believe the testimony of?

Share rights issue – other than diluting current shareholders funds, this might raise £15 - 20 million as a 'one off'?

We would need to use the money on capital spend as we are unlikely to be able to sell them to contribute to players salaries or pay off debts – neither is something investors will find attractive. So – stadium investment? Where would £20 million or even £40 million get us? Part of a cheap new stand perhaps?

I think similar amounts (£10 million) need to be put to one side from 2013 in order to gradually accumulate the funds to expand, or even act as supporting capital for a loan to move? Snag is how many will be screaming for it to be spent on players once we hit a bad patch?

A one-to-one share rights issue should raise about £35M and doesn't have to dilute the board's shareholdings, they just have to buy more shares to maintain control.

Wolves are building a whole new long side for £16M, £10M for an end... so £20M or £40M will be more than part of a new stand.

Thomas # 959,

That figure depends on how much of the shareholding they are willing to put up.

If they are prepared to half their interest in the club - we could wipe out the debt, making the club an attractive proposition once more.

We all know why this won't happen.

Imagine a club of Everton's stature, with no debt and a realistic asking price.

It would be sold within a month - to someone who can realise the full potential of a club ever-present in the richest league in the world. Not some chancer actor who is living hand to mouth, and bumming loans around the world.

Not the colossal egomaniac we currently have to put up with.

"The Blue Union is perfectly active – as confirmed by their recent e.mail."

Man the barricades, the revolution has come!

Eric@957
As always there’s no misinformation (how can it be?) my aim is simply correcting misinformation that at time gets stated as fact here. Now, I’ve shown you the statement of the enquiry, the club has stated time without number that it is for sale, they have appointed agents to sell the club and they have dealt with several potential buyers. I conclude, as any non conspiracy theorist would, that the club is for sale; if not can you please direct me to somewhere where it proves unequivocally that the shareholders are not willing to sell their shares? If not then please stop stating it as fact.

Kevin you’re asking the shareholders to devalue their stake, yes of course it will add a one off payment to the club but they control the club so they are naturally reluctant to do this isn’t that common sense? I agree ST prices won’t solve our problem but it will give us a clear investment line that can be used for the sake of our club. This obsession about the AGM being cancelled is just smoke and mirrors, the Government changed the law and said they no longer need to have such meetings so why be surprised that EFC and many, many other companies have done the same, it’s a non argument in my book. Why do people quote the DK enquiry? EFC said what had to be said to gain planning permission, once the decision was made the direction for the shareholders had completely changed, so whatever was said positive or not needs to be taken in to context at the time it was said. The point I’m trying to make is that BK doesn’t hold control directly and getting him to sell to any bidder isn’t necessary in our interests whether we like him or not. If he and the others sell up it has to be to the correct buyer not any buyer, that’s our problem and why attacking him personally to the extent we are doing now isn’t constructive to our club, yes he has made mistakes but its about the future of our club not the past, they own our club not you or I that’s the reality of the situation. A coup d’état is only of interest if we have a plan B, we don’t have that so the approach has to be inclusive of all parties, we need to spend more time looking at the answer to the problem as apposed to the problem itself. Lots of people have correctly been saying I support Everton not the board, but to solve this issue we have to involve the board.

But Martin, the misinformation that you present is that the board stated in the inquiry that the Club is for sale, when you know that they stated it is not for sale.

And you seem very reluctant to tell us who did state that the Club IS for sale, the testimony that the Inquiry believed in issuing their findings you are so fond of quoting.

Alan I can see your capitalist rhetoric for what it is with the figures that you trot out regarding the pricing structure of junior tickets. I also seem to recall from previous posts that you travel up to Goodison from the South for home games and appear to have the means and wherewithal to provide tickets for you and your family. I have two boys aged 7 and 9 and have purchased tickets at £95.00 for the Park End. Without the discount I suspect that I would not be able to afford three tickets for every home game at circa £80.00 plus the extra's. In these cash strapped times and with a fanbase that probably earns less than the national average I would commend Everton on this occasion for their efforts to make the Club more accesible to the family, appeal to future generations and not just the preserve for people such as yourself who on the evidence would appear to be in the minority. We are not Chelsea.

Alan, reluctant or not - a rights issue may be the only door open to them for a short term cash injection.

The club as a business is not currently deemed creditworthy - their credit rating is presently showing as " cash transactions preferred. "

What sort of interest rates do you think we have to pay on outsanding short term loans ?

As mentioned, the financial hole they are digging will only get deeper as time passes, we are at the behest of the banks as we speak - they can call their loans in anytime - or insist we sell our only assets, the players.

As the Chairman has mentioned - he has already begged the banks not to kill us, where will he go once the likes of the BVI's of this world turn the club down for credit ?

This Board should sell up, they are out of their financial league, and not prepared to invest in their own business, doesn't that ring any alarm bells for you ?

Can something be considered as 'up for sale' when a sale price has never been named?

The way I understand issuing shares is done if we were to issue 35 000 new shares every shareholder would get first refusal. Value current shares at £1500 then after issue all become worth £750. If you don't pay up (lets say £500 for the first offer) your shares halve in value. If they do pay up (and many will struggle) the club raises £26 million.

You then offer the remaining shares on 'open' market but if they aren't sold you need someone in place to buy them.

Paying down debt is less attractive than building infrastructure as we will be generating new money with new infrastructure which underpins borrowing and maximises the earning potential of the club.

£16 million for a new stand? Perhaps if we look at the capacity you get for £18 million (7700) at Wolves you will realise that our present equivalent stand (Park End @ 5922 capacity) needs to be far bigger to be worth our while - £25 - 30 million perhaps and we would STILL have to move the pitch.
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/wolverhampton-wanderers-fc/2012/05/25/home-fans-only-in-wolves-stan-cullis-stand/

On our planet, Danny, no; on Martin's... yes.

Alan,

The AGM rule may have been changed but it wasn't a ban on AGMs.

Bill &co decided it would be in their interests to cut off communication and accountability with the peasants to believe the board might be "inclusive" after that is fanciful, there's certainly no evidence to say they're interested. When the shit hits the fan enough "one off" names appear on forums and in the echo etc to show the club monitor what's going on. They will know ideas and expertise lay outside the walls of Goodison, it would be a giant stride in re-unifying the fan base if such expertise was invited in to at least talk, but it is THEIR call.

To turn your back on such people who would crawl over broken glass to help is very questionable.

I don't think any serious fan is advocating selling to "anyone" as you seem to suggest and if you take "they own the club" and "we are nothing" approach you might as well walk across Stanley Park. The move from Anfield to Goodison was to defeat that premise.

Peter, I was explaining the economics of the deal as a business transaction its got nothing to do with peoples personal finance, I said as a fan it’s a great deal I have even taken it myself for my son but as a business move it’s a terrible deal, please don’t interpret what I say as a personal approach I’m trying to be objective in what they have done. My brother will upgrade the ticket 3 times which is the maximum and I hope my mate’s daughter will take the seat when I’m not using it so I hope it will be used. Barry, step back your far too bitter, who said we are nothing I certainly didn’t and would never ever say such a thing but people want a sugar daddy approach and pay very little towards the product which is fantasy football, I never changed the game it changed itself and the cost we all pay either in time or money is tiny compared to the overpaid 11 that run out every week. Suggesting I support the shite is an insult and a very low one. Kevin I don’t disagree with what you’re saying but to achieve what we all want at some point the board need to speak to the fans groups and we cant do that whilst we talk about the past failings, pride has to be swallowed on both sides if we want to move forward, this doesn’t mean what the BU or any other person is saying isn’t true its the reality of our position. NI is a great example, who would have thought Sinn Fein/IRA would work daily with Paisley, its happened. We have to move on from the disaster of Kings Dock, like it or not, all this who said what stuff is just crap and gets us nowhere.

Alan

I think you're getting irate over a misunderstanding I would never call anyone a red I'm referring to the philosophical difference of accepting we are of no real importance. Hstorically this is what seperates us from the strange fellows across the park.

See this quote from "the History of Everton".

"Everton F.C. Create a Democratic People's Club

On moving to Goodison Park Everton F.C. issued 5,000 shares for fans only. The Everton F.C. directors owned only 6% of the club, while at Liverpool F.C. the directors owned 52%. Liverpool F.C. stayed largely owned by a few people in the corporate model and has remained so throughout its history."

I know this has changed but it's core to being an Evertonian we should have stopped with Houlding - the greedy twat - if we'd wanted Kenwrightism to rule.

Nothing about being bitter, which I am, and quite proud actually.

Barry, I think we can lean a lot from the German game but the greed of the players and their advisors is driving clubs to make irrational business decisions, BK is a fan and that in my mind is a dangerous combination, even more so when you have no liquidity to back up your desire that’s why in my mind he is totally compromised in everything he does. I look at EFC as a business and it just scares me like hell but as a fan my perception completely changes, I travel the county every weekend possible to see EFC and it has nearly got me divorced on several occasions but the wife has to accept that EFC is part of my life, the fact I stay over in Liverpool most games and get pissed has nothing to do with it! Leaving the pub at 2.50 and hitting your seat just at the start of Z cars should be an Olympic sport, Evertonians would clean up every time! It’s a way of life for us all, that’s why we are so protective of it and all take it personally at times, in fairness I wouldn’t have it any other way.

Thomas, why would we have to move the pitch to expand the Park End? We can just extend into the hospitality tent area behind it.

And Wolves demolished their stand to rebuild, we don't have to demolish to extend.

Richard Dodd you had me applauding.

I despair at the shit that the BU receives, especially nonsense such as "supply a viable alternative"...

We need to invest in the infrastructure of our club or all the robbing Peter to nick a free from Rangers will be in vain. The board are simply not doing this or investing any money into it... Meaning we're going to lurch from mediocre to near disaster while they lead the way.

Rather than me trying to explain the merits of having a board who communicate and deliver upon milestones which lead to positive goals, I'd love to hear how the current situation is the best we can hope for and that by rubbishing the efforts of fans who physically got off their arses to speak for many, you are in anyway forming some kind of positive union.