Sell him on, for me... whenever we get the chance.

We also have a terrible tendency to back off far too deeply when the opposition is attacking. Heitinga does, clearly, have a height weakness when dealing with high balls into the area but the main culprit in this respect is Howard...... in two ways. He is a panicky flapper and does not take charge of the goal area as a good goalkeeper should. Good goalkeepers 'rule' in the penalty area as they are most often the only defender with a full view off what is happening and where everybody is.

I think it was in the Sunderland game when Jags had a right go at him when a cross was set to go harmlessly out of play but Jags had to clear it for a corner because he could not know if an opposition player was coming in behind him. Howard clearly did not shout 'leave it' or do anything else to assist Jags and held his hands up in what looked to me like an apology. Howard is a decent shot-stopper but in most other respects he is a liability. He makes me nervous at every corner and free kick and if I'm nervous I bet his fellow defenders are too.

Shilton got pretty close to all of them though so not sure what our goalkeeper coach would have done better. It would be like comparing Banks with Bonetti and he didn't do much with the Germans in '70.

Pretty sure Robson needed to make his two subs count in the outfield though and Pearce hardly hit his soft.

I actually put this shoot-out failure at 12 years of age as cause for my abundant cynicism and because of that, jeeeesus Rahman, 2nd bazaar post of the day from you!

Heitinga doesn't attack the ball in the air half as well as Jagielka or Distin. But I think the reasons why he hasn't been a success this season have pretty much all been covered by the people above.

He can't head the ball, can't jump, his positional play is shit, he can't read the game, he can't tackle, he's a shithouse, bottles tackles, sluggish reactions and lacks pace.

As usual things are going very slowly in regards to transfers: one minute we think Heitinga is going for Forren; next minute he's staying.

If he left and one of them two got injured we would be bady stretched. He will only leave in the summer. Moyes has said no one is going anywhere and I believe him, we need every swinging dick available just to finish the season never mind chase 4th and the FA Cup.

According to mates butchers, dogs, wifes husband............Heitinga suffers from an anxiety disorder. This flared up around the Euros resulting in him being dropped which knackered his confidence and in turn made things worse again. His confidence is obviously shot and hes been trying to play himself back into contention/health. the fact Distin and Jags have been playing so well means hes only had the odd game or cameo appearance to get on with his game and sort his head out.

Or are we actually only talking about 2-3 specific games from the 20-odd played?

Agree he can't be blamed for goals conceded when he is off pitch, and all our defenders need to cut out the unforced errors, but it is questionable that he is performing to the required standard consistently when he is picked.

It is undoubtedly tricky when you are obviously down the pecking order, but he needs some stirring performances to show he is worth holding onto.

When playing alongside Distin last season I thought he was superb positonally, he was organising, reading the play like a dream and was crucially, full of confidence.

For me, we looked the tightest we had been since Lescott left.

So, what gives?

A large part of it I think has been nailed by Jim Knightley(580). We are definitely playing a higher line and squeezing the play, this naturally exposes him even if playing with Distin. He's a reader and does like the play in front of him, no centre half likes getting turned.

I think he's a lot better than he's showing, but he's currently having a mare.

I think it goes back to the beginning of the season; he must have had his nose put out of joint by essentially being dropped. Then, when he does get back in, playing alongside Jags I think it was, he go took apart and subbed at halftime.

That cannot do anything for your confidence. It’s just about as bad as it gets.

Since then I think he looks confidence shot. We're playing with the high line, it doesn't suit him, he's making bad decisions, his positional play is off(and he is a good positional player, has to be as he has no pace) and isn't even doing the things he's good at well.

At Newcastle, in the second half he got away with getting himself in a bad position high up the pitch and managed to perform some crazy block/pretend stumble that he managed to actually turn into a foul for us if I remember rightly!! They were nearly in!!

Then someone was running at him into the box left hand side and he couldn’t stop the lad getting a shot off on Howards near post. He was backing off and he looked like he couldn't fucking move. It was poor stuff.

I like Hetinga, but he is suffering and if we can get one in, deal him out and free up some wages with a younger player its best all round. At this stage of his career Heitinga really does need regular football.

It’s the best move for all. However, I would much prefer to remember him for his form alongside Distin last year and his superb form when he and Lucas Neill were thrown together, than this.

The side that finished 4th a few years ago was diabolical to watch and finished the season with a negative goal difference (probably some sort of record).It performed pretty poorly in Europe!!

I'm sure that if the present team is invested in and gets a top 4 spot, it will do better than the last one in Europe.

The goal against Newcastle could have defended by somoene of four foot had one CB went up and the other swept in behind. Maybe it's Johny's accent that isn't understood.

Should Bobby Robson have know those crafty German's were going to stick every penalty right in the corner. Would Woods have guessed right and stretched that far? Not to mention the pace on the ball.

I know it's funny season but this adds a new dimension.

Our lack of clean sheets is down to the change in emphasis on attacking play and the players that we now use and the fact we do not have a midfield enforcer in the absence of Gibbo.

Heitinga's poor form can be put down to the fact he has totally lost his motivation.

He hit it hard and true..........just not quite hight enough.

Shilton said that he noticed there were a lot of poor penalties during that tournament.

So he decided he wasn't going to guess but wait until the ball had been struck because he saw so many that were nowhere near the corner.

Unfortunately the Germans were very accurate.

I'd hardly blame Bobby Robson for that.

The main problem with us conceding goals is Tim Howard. The last minute goal by Stoke has typical Tim Howard signature all over it. Time and again he has failed us in these situations and the opposition know it.

I agree Johnny isn't playing well but maybe he's saving himself for his next club where he'll play in Jags position and any other goalie but for Howard.

Jags is the nearest we have had to the Rat for 20+ years, and Johnny H isn't fit to lace the boots of either. Nothing against the player, but he's a good passer, that's it, so he is redundant from the first XI

Only space I see him as effective is as a deep-lying defensive screen, but at EFC others, even Neville, can do that role better.

He might be more suited to a slower, less physical league where his passing might be better utilised.

I seem to be at odds with all those who have ever rated JH in the Everton team. I've seen more potential for in Duffy than I ever did with Johnny. Sorry.

Deservedly the Player of the Season. Was immense last season when Jags and Distin were both shaky. His ability to play from the back was one of the key factors in dictating a more flowing approach from back to front. Hope he stays and hope he comes good again. He has all the ability in the world.

Maybe also his communication skills are not the best, as he seems to get caught out of position or even found competing for the same balls as his team mates quite often.

But in his defence, last season when we were struggling he was immense, a proper backs-to-the-wall defender who didn't mind the scrap! There's a world class centre half in there at times... he just wants to be a midfielder the majority of these times, it seems?

Our defensive record is actually decent - about 6th best in the league isn't it?

The dropped points were down to not scoring when we were on top. You can't expect to never concede a goal.

Puyol, Cannevaro & Baresi could all read the game from the back, Heitinga never has any idea what is going on around him. He is that poor I have him as captain of my worst ever Everton 11