I am pretty sure there were similar comments from the couple of hundred 'Welsh Sheep Loving boys from the Valleys' directed at our nation... in amongst the moronic Michael Laudrup Black and White Army chanting which made me want to put ear defenders in.

I mean, the bald fat twat with the red and white striped Polo shirt in the front row was giving it the big uns all the way through and I was willing us to score just to be able to piss him off!

Anyway, IMHO it goes with the territory; it's not racist and I too will not be attending games featuring Welsh teams because Land of My Fathers seriously gets on my tits!

Evertonians are better than this and should rise above it. Banter needs to have a sense of humour, that's when it is effective.

ps: Scouser with four Welsh grandparents.

Don't you realise they're just showing their passion for their club and it's their way of protesting against modern society blah blah blah.

You know what I mean. On the Dole, Druggies, Scum (same as you are upset by), Sign On and all that dreadful rubbish.

But as an anecdote. On the train from home yesterday to the match, I heard a Welsh accent and spoke to two guys and asked them if they were going to the game. They were – it was around12:00 noon. I said I would show them to the ground but also suggested if they fancied a pint as it was so early, why not come with me to my matchday pub - The Dark House. They did and were treated as anyone else and loved the atmosphere. You can see pictures of them later today on Facebook (The Dark House Blues).

Surely this is what football should be, having a pint together discussing your team, a bit of banter, having total disagreements. We of course talked about Bob Latchford.

So yes, there is some garbage and very unpleasant fans out there but there are also lots of really lovely and friendly people who go to the game – just like me and you.

Best wishes to all Blues.

All 6th form soap box stuff, but the last thing people and the many societies within a nation have is culture, and the individual. We're being forced out of both and that is why I do not have this pride (which is a negative emotion) or patronage to this nation.

The establishment have a flag and people can say English this or that forever and a day, and is nothing to do with me.

Saying that, stand-up Reginald D Hunter was saying about a friend during the Olympics 'I thought you weren't proud to be British' to which the friend replied 'No, but I'm bloody grateful'.

Sorry to go off on a tangent...

(George, was watching the West Ham v Utd cup game and the WH fans started signing Sign-on. Erm...?)

Regrading the West Ham fans I wrote on Toffeeweb a few weeks ago about the blatant racism at the recent Spurs game.

Unacceptable and abhorrent.

Dreadful stuff but unfortunately it is there at football grounds always has been and always will be.

I've no idea how it can be stopped.

I love my match-day rituals and several years ago when a few "jokes' were made in our pub we asked for them to stop and it did.

Also I remember my daughter being frightened for me because I stood up and challenged racist comments at the match but I did and I reported the seat numbers to the match stewards.

But I agree it is difficult to challenge on a mass basis.

I myself have answered at one time or another to 3 and a half of those (not so much tubby as well covered) and a few others.

Mountain... molehill.

Just as the Saha thread went many moons ago, Wales and Welsh isn't a race or creed or religion – it's a country; at most its xenophobic.

PC bollocks does exist at the ground, Spurs sang "Feed the scousers, do they know it's Christmas" and I got told off by a very young copper for shouting back "You lot don't celebrate Christmas" which technically is true but that jobsworth took offence.

Like you, I've been a North Wales Blue for over 30 years, following them home and away like many many others from our area.

Had to put up with loads over the years with fudge and sheep shagging jibes etc. but to be honest I've always just laughed it off. When it comes to the crunch, we're all Blues, and stand together.

So my advice is consider it a form of banter/teasing, and don't take any offence from the bin-dipping work-shy bastards..!

Cymru Rydd

I doubt the fans you heard were seriously prejudiced against the Welsh, it was just a handy stick to beat the Swansea fans with; likewise, fans of London teams who insult Scousers probably don't really mean it. But it's dumb and it doesn't help people to get along. In fact, it breeds hatred.

It's very much a Scouse thing to be able to give and take a bit of aggressive banter, and we all like a laugh, but at the end of the day we ought to know better. In case this is sounding like I'm above it all, I'm not! I was watching MOTD last night thinking that Swansea and Cardiff mean nothing to me - but if Wrexham (or, even better, Rhyl of Colwyn Bay!) were in the football league then I'd have a soft spot for them. All those childhood holidays in North Wales have left their mark. There you go: turns out I'm a bit prejudiced against South Wales! But at least I know that's a personal preference, I'm not converting it into the statement that people from South Wales are "scum" or whatever.

It is only words at the end of the day and really it is "just for fun" as so many would suggest. I am Welsh with English parents and grandparents. If you heard the things Swansea and Cardiff fans call each other, you would probably decide that the things you heard were soft.

Unusual that this should (allegedly) occur, given our historic links with Wales...

It's the same wherever you go, people abuse people from other regions and that's just life. It (regional abuse) will never go away.

However, I would like to point out that my trip to Swansea last season was great and the taffs down there were really welcoming and we even shook hands across the barrier at the final whistle.

Mind you, the same could be said of noted Evertonian, Freddie Starr.

Frank Skinner once said you're only on safe ground when taking a pop at another country if they are perceived to be more powerful. And then said that with the emergence of China, within a few years it will be acceptable once more to tell 'why you so ronely' jokes.

So, you've been a Blue for 40 years, well I've lived in Wales for 40 years. When I first came over here I suffered some real abuse. You know the sort of thing, on entering a room it was always "Scouser alert! Lock your desk, keep valuables well hidden". Any time there was a crime or burglary the comment was that it was ALWAYS a "Professional gang from Liverpool".

This has gone on for 40 years and I have largely risen above it, despite being seriously pissed off on several occasions when it really wasn't meant as any sort of joke, and I've even asked if they'd say that about black people.

Liverpool people are regarded as thieves whatever their background. So, to hear Welsh people getting all precious about a few insults cuts little ice with me. And don't think I'm a bitter scouser, my family lived in Wales for years, my brother was born here and regards himself as Welsh, even serving with a Welsh regiment, and go back far enough and my great Grandmother was Welsh. As are my in-laws.

Is the chanting racist or just the work of morons and halfwits?? Probably the latter. More often than not, it's all they can think of.

I would say we should have the balls to challenge it when we hear it at close quarters. It only takes one person to make a stand against it and you will see other decent fans join you in voicing opposition to the moronic behaviour that sadly seems to affect all grounds including our own.

I don't think what you heard can be classed as racism though.

You would be better off staying at home next time we play a Welsh team. Perhaps you can find a sheep to keep you company... :)

I do, however, find some stereotypes pretty funny, but there's a time and a place. The sheep shagging one for the Welsh is an interesting one as we Australians seemed to cop that one a lot back in the day, so we pushed it on to the filthy Kiwis.

It must be possible in many places to stand with one foot in Wales and another in England and what actually changes under your bollocks and between your feet.....nowt except prejudice and a belief that something actually has.

Deal with perceived personal insults if you feel them and feel aggrieved but don't take on board any grief about a 'country' because it may be somebody else's in a century or two!

As others have said, coming from Liverpool we put with a lot, so lighten up. COYB.

Everton has a very strong following where I live. My grandfather supported the Blues and it stuck on me. The 1984 FA Cup Final was the point that I remember being a blue (I was 6 then). It takes a lot of time but I get to watch the blues at least twice a season and could not get a better welcome anywhere.

The Swansea fans are still in disbelief that they are in the Premier League so the songs they chant about the English and the songs about Welshman they couldn't give a toss. Wait til Cardiff come up!! No-one takes offence — it's banter!

I fondly remember the outbreak of handbags in the Lower Gwladys one derby match
Fan1: "Fuck off Rush, yer ugly, kopite, big-nosed, turncoat Welsh twat!"
Fan2: "What's Welsh got to do with it you Scouse bastard?"
Apart from the use of foodstuff as weapons, it was straight out of Life of Brian
If you want to experience real racism (?), visit Glasgow et al - they consider us all (Brummie, Manc, Liverpolitan, Scouse, Cockney - but perversely not Geordies) as English Bastards

Anyway, my passport says "British"

Fair play but as Ray Roche and Gavin pertain thank God you weren't born black, gay or Jewish (having said that you could be a very proud black, gay, Jewish Welshman and its the Welsh bit you're particularly sensitive too, who knows...)

Just think it could be worse; You could be paying £3.80 a pint of cider.

There is a stated case on the above regarding nationality/race in the UK. An English police officer serving in Scotland took his employers to court for being 'racist'; it was held that he hadn't suffered racism as per the reasons I gave above.

Allow me to compare your example to the racism directed at Louis Saha at Goodison:: One judge identified the word "French," being used in a pejorative context, but another won't recognise the word: "English," in another..

Not sure I get that; UK nationals may share a British passport, but they all have individual languages, flags, anthems, etc...and I'm prompted to ask: If Scotland completely devolves from the Union in a few years time, will it become an offence in England to call someone a "Scottish so-and-so," and would Scottish law punish one of IT'S citizens, if they're found guilty of abusing the word: "English," for example?

Highly selective in my view. Thanks for your take.

I am English and not British, I don't care how the law defines it. The same way I still see myself as a Lancastrian even though Liverpool is officially no longer a part of Lancashire.

MotD was on and it was the United vs Liverpool.

Two kopites were at the counter, sample outburst regarding Joe Allen: "£15 million for that little Welsh prick, he shouldn't even be in this country."

Make no comment on it other than it's great to hear them so eloquently bemoaning their decline.

And £15 million for him is a joke..... badly stung.

Again.

Yorkshire pudding
Cornish pasty

Townist?
Bakewell tart

I think I've been a victim of the lowest depth of abuse, districtism...I was once vilified at the match for being from Liverpool 8 - "fuckin Southender, Everton's a North End team".

If I'd taken this to hard and gone off to support South Liverpool, I'd have been spared a lifetime of emotional lows (but what highs I'd have missed).

It's a bit like that "If this book should ever roam" address I used to write in the front of a new book when I was a kid: Name, House Number, Street, City, County, Country... then Europe, The Northern Hemisphere, The World, etc, etc, etc - ending up with The Universe!

When you're defining where you come from, where do you start and where do you end?

That's gotta be philosophical question of the week.

Er, COYB!

In the 1970s when it snowed they just roughly cleared the lines and used an orange ball, totally overlooking the risk to life and limb and rendering the match a complete lottery. I must say, I rather enjoyed that.

Osman and Pienaar would be OK in the snow, I reckon. The less nimble players, like Neville and Coleman, would struggle.

That's the end of the weather, now the news...

It all happened after the Scottish invasion of Wembley 77' in the last century... A Scottish guy I used to know has a brother called Charlie who took the English FA to court for racism. This arose from the fact that the FA banned tickets to Scottish fans. Charlie's case was that this was an act of racism.

At the High Court, the judge's summing up was that, since the "Treaty of Union" which took effect in 1707, Scotland ceased to be a nation and is now a cultural entity! He lost the case and it cost him about fifteen grand (ouch!)

I live in Wrexham and when they play Chester or a South Wales side, the police are doubled at the ground. One guy in court in Mold, when asked why he was fighting after the game retorted "He's a South Walian" — enough said.

I can remember decades of racial abuse always at football matches (for some reason). Rangers fans singing anti-Papist songs at Goodison because they thought we were a catholic team. Albert Johanneson, the great black Leeds winger, getting clobbered by Tommy Smith and a wag in the crowd shouting "Foul shot, seven away".

It's gone on ever since I watched football and played it... so what!! Nothing will stop it.

Secondly, "Scouser" is a term my old man has always objected to and is upset if I ever refer to myself as one. I don't need to tell you lot the history, but it's still a relatively recent term replacing the previous one, which was designed to cause more offense. There's relatively few words which refer to a group of people from a particular place which are designed to cause as much offence as Scouser, but the initial intent is forgotten over time.

Thirdly, England, Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland are still all countries in their own right, though they belong to the Sovereign State of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, which itself is not a country. This is why I am both English and British, whilst Mike Hughes is both Welsh and British.

Peter Leslie #365 expresses it very well for me. I'm not into political correctness either- which is often contrived IMHO - but I do draw the line at certain things. As he says, Evertonians are better than this.

Football "culture" seems to have its own set of rules and values to the point where the offending comments are somehow perceived to be not as bad as if spoken in another situation. There is banter and I wouldn't want the humour or atmosphere to be vacuumed (as at The Emirates) but I think a line was crossed.

I hate anti-Scouser jibes - both collectively and personally - though I've found the best way to deal with them is to laugh them off (it has a pissing-in-the-wind effect on the offender). I'm sure that's how most fans give and take such comments.

The bottom line for me is that it reflects on EFC and we seem to get the shitty end of the stick in these situations (remember the media condemnation of "the baby's not yours" chants directed at Gerrard? It sparked a Roger Philips debate on Radio Merseyside to which I wrote a long email - which he read out on air - highlighting various incidents, crimes and misdemeanours perpetrated by RS over the years and overlooked by the media.)

Mike Green - I kind of get where you're coming from with your comments but we're living in a different era now where the media pick up on anything and everything. I'm pretty sure the media won't have the same levels of tolerance with EFC as they seem to have with those fun-loving kopites. It wouldn't surprise me if John Barnes uses this example on one of his radio stints - any chance to have a go at us.

Long live Wales and the Welsh (I was there this afternoon actually - up Moel Famau).

I reserve my abuse for RS (regardless of creed, colour, nationality etc.)