Season 2012-13
Opinion
Talking Points
Jelavic, the new Andy Johnson?
I know there will be lads on here, stating Jelavic isn't having any luck, it's a confidence issue.... this is a knee-jerk reaction etc. But in my opinion, we are seeing a completely different player to the one who was banging them in for fun last year.
He is dropping deep all the time, he spends most of the game playing out wide, when you want him in and around the box. He seems to be doing more on the defensive side of his game, working hard for the team. (I hate all this "He's working hard"...)
Here's the thing: I don't want him running round working hard for the team, defending etc — I want him banging them in for fun again!!!
There will also be those who will just say this is another excuse to have a go at Moyes but, for me, Moyes is the problem. You could see him asking for more from Jelavic: work harder, get back and defend, because that's what Moyes expects from his players. For me, this is having an impact on his natural game though, and that's scoring goals.
So... Jelavic — the new Andy Johnson?
Brian Waring, Posted 14/01/2013 at 15:05:30
Reader Comments
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660 Posted 14/01/2013 at 13:27:28
A few things. He is a better player than AJ and Beattie and deserves to be in the team on ability. He can hold the ball up, makes very good runs off the ball and has a very good work rate - people appear to be accepting that Jelly puts himself about for the team, as the argument now runs that he should be stationed in the box (not on the subs bench). Yet despite his work rate, he still gets himself into goalscoring positions.
Turning the Swansea RB at the far post in the box to get a toe end to the cross from Pienaar in the first half was pure Lineker, as was the instinctive poke vs Cheltenham.
To continue the analogy, I may not always ask my plumber to lay bricks, but if I can't afford a brick layer and my plumber can do the job is still a solution. Having world class plumbing but no bricks to shelter it is no good either.
One final point. Jelly is a victim of one the team's strengths this season. We are not dependent on one player for our goals. So he will not always get the service he craves, as there are multiple attacking threats in this side. Saturday was one of those rare occassions where collectively the team failed to produce a goal. I would much rather have multiple threats then be dependent on one or two players for our goals.
670 Posted 14/01/2013 at 15:28:54
Initially, I was glad to be proven wrong but now I'm not so sure.
675 Posted 14/01/2013 at 15:34:58
Had Jelavic converted a couple of sitters, and scored his free-kick against Chelsea, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. So slim are the margins.
677 Posted 14/01/2013 at 15:35:04
I really rate Jelavic but playing deep and out on the wing is a Moyes trick we've seen far too often, actually the whole square pegs in round holes is his stock in trade.
Mystifying.
679 Posted 14/01/2013 at 15:54:34
I'd be interested to know people's opinions though on which player you would choose between Naismith and Beckford. I never really understood why we let Beckford go. He wasn't that great but he got the odd goal, was cheap, young and I think offered more of a threat than Steven Naismith does currently. Naismith can trap a ball further than I can kick one!
680 Posted 14/01/2013 at 15:59:30
The lucky bastard !!!!
681 Posted 14/01/2013 at 16:05:32
http://www.sportskeeda.com/2013/01/13/players-with-most-number-of-offsides-in-the-premier-league/
683 Posted 14/01/2013 at 16:14:32
As already said, he is getting the chances but instead of burying them like last season, he is hitting the post/bar/goalie or thin air.
Also, if you actually watch the games from last season, he missed quite a few sitters there too, but no-one was saying it was due to Moyes/Round's coaching then.
684 Posted 14/01/2013 at 16:16:11
In fairness to Moyes, we have been creating a hell of a lot of chances this year, so I don't think you can blame Jelavic's lack of goals on him. In previous years, our negative approach spelt the end for Beattie, Johnson, the Yak etc. I don't think you can say that this time round. He just needs to start putting the ball in the net more often, simple as that.
686 Posted 14/01/2013 at 16:14:14
Is SAF shite as well because he has Rooney running around all game? Again maybe you should consider that the player like to be involved and help the team where as others are more selfish or lazy and like to stand in the box all game. Do you think if we signed Owen he would be running the channels? I don't think so, again the player plays his own game.
Name me a manager who does get the best out of their strikers?
688 Posted 14/01/2013 at 16:16:27
Moyes doesn't kill strikers but he is limiting Jelavic's effectiveness in the team by building it aorund Fellaini's ability to get on the end of some good service. As we've shown against Swansea though, when Mirallas doesn't play and Pienaar is off colour the service isn't there and that's when you need your poacher in the box, not on the left wing dragging a centreback out so that Fellaini can have some room in the box. Sell Fellaini and get a real ball playing number 10 who will feed Jelavic.
689 Posted 14/01/2013 at 16:07:22
Amit is right, we're getting goals from more areas this season, and Jelavic's work is partly responsible for that. Not to counter my own point but this puts me in mind of Bob Latchford. He did absolutely nothing in wide areas, or in the deep. Also he hardly ever celebrated unless an Everton goal had come from his own boot or forehead. He knew that was his job and didn't like anyone else doing it. He was a fat lazy bastard, but he's Number 1 on my list of blue heroes!
692 Posted 14/01/2013 at 16:39:32
697 Posted 14/01/2013 at 16:51:47
I know it was a run and cross from him to set up Vic's goal at Newcastle but we don't have two forwards on the pitch often enough for that to be a regular thing.
700 Posted 14/01/2013 at 17:01:00
Jelavic has stopped scoring, Andy Johnson stopped scoring = Moyes stops strikers scoring.
It's also pretty lazy to end your analysis of a striker with how many goals he scores. If we win 3-0 every week and Jelavic doesn't score again all season, I'll be absolutely delighted and I will consider him to have played well.
Count the chances he is getting, he and the team are carving out MORE chances than last season in my opinion.
After we've made the chance, a lot of whether it goes in is luck, then it starts to get psychological (a bit like if you toss a coin and start getting more heads than tails - you start to second guess), but you definately cannot blame it on the coaching.
703 Posted 14/01/2013 at 17:10:05
704 Posted 14/01/2013 at 17:10:14
Yes, Jelavic has been getting into position to score, but does anyone know how much fatigue plays a part in being able to get that extra inch when trying to finish? A lot of the time, a striker needs to run like hell to get to the position, then stop, then start again when the ball gets to them. When you need to run in the middle of end of a game, you can ignore that fatigue, but to have to start again in an explosive manner is very difficult.
The track record is beginning to speak for itself. Beattie, Johnson, Yakubu, Saha. They all suffered from being asked, or forced, to play a game they weren't adept to, and all faded prematurely.
706 Posted 14/01/2013 at 17:25:48
707 Posted 14/01/2013 at 17:25:37
(ok, one criticism - he needs to look along the line before making his runs - not surprised he has most offsides).
708 Posted 14/01/2013 at 16:56:47
When he first arrived last year, he wasn't running around like a headless chicken. I think he – to put it bluntly – is 'nackered' when the chances arrive. One of the greatest strikers that played the game was also one of the laziest, Denis Law. I once saw him at Anfield, before the game the talk was all Denis and what he would do. Eighty five minutes gone, Liverpool are one up and The Great Denis Law hadn't had a kick. Full time and Man Utd had won it 1-2. I think he had only touched the ball twice during the game. Law was the best striker in the country at the time.
Not everyone has an engine like Suarez. I don't remember Latchford working his bollocks off. Some strikers can do it but not everyone and I think Jelavic falls into the second category.
710 Posted 14/01/2013 at 17:26:26
711 Posted 14/01/2013 at 17:25:28
As for the track record, Beattie only ever had one freak good season no matter who was his manager so I don't think it has anything to do with Moyes. Most of AJ's goals were in the Champiosnhip so he was always going to struggle to keep up the standard. Yakubu did well, had a dip in form got injured and then fell out with Moyes. Saha also did well but it was clear he was passed his best and we were only ever likley to get a couple of good seasons out of him, thats why we go him so cheap.
716 Posted 14/01/2013 at 17:38:49
When Jelavic was playing alonside Cahill his scoring record was great because of Tim's work ethic. This also coincides with Tim Cahill's goal drought.
Fellaini isn't the same player as Cahill so now Jelavic is having to do all the legwork and as a result he's scoring less goals.
I blame Cahill.
717 Posted 14/01/2013 at 17:40:50
731 Posted 14/01/2013 at 18:36:29
It might be a mental thing, a confidence issue, but even if he's not playing that well, he still has 7 goals in the league, and I'm sure a couple more in the cups. I don't buy the Fellaini argument, because if that was the case, he wouldn't have played very well last season.
Just one of those things, and like a poster said, a Torres moment. I do certainly think he needs a breather, which is why we need a new striker or a new winger, so Anichebe can have a go up front for a bit.
742 Posted 14/01/2013 at 19:08:34
744 Posted 14/01/2013 at 19:14:12
And Peter (716), Cahill's drought lasted a year before Jelavic arrived.
745 Posted 14/01/2013 at 19:11:47
746 Posted 14/01/2013 at 19:19:41
754 Posted 14/01/2013 at 19:18:44
Yes, he got shunted out wide, but I think saying we broke Johnson isn't quite the full picture, he just was never great in the beginning. That said I liked Johnson (in comparison to Spencer, Brett, Madar and Bakayoko, he was Plantini) but we certainly did well to move him for £10.5m, as he has scored just 13 Premier League goals in 3½ seasons at Fulham. He must be one of their top earners also.
756 Posted 14/01/2013 at 19:34:53
758 Posted 14/01/2013 at 19:37:09
759 Posted 14/01/2013 at 19:25:43
761 Posted 14/01/2013 at 19:31:40
762 Posted 14/01/2013 at 19:45:09
To be fair, plenty of chances have been created, he just hasn't scored them. He is drifting out wide a lot, but hit the bar & post against Frank Lampard's south of Watford multi-billionaire media machine.
768 Posted 14/01/2013 at 19:59:02
I think Jelavic needs a good rest. Some ridiculous comments on here, if he was that poor he wouldn't have scored all those goals last season. They can't all have been down to luck. In fact I remember some very classy one-touch finishes!
769 Posted 14/01/2013 at 20:00:55
Surely, a better question is Andy Johnson the new jelavic. The answer is no, end of debate.
771 Posted 14/01/2013 at 19:48:21
Which on the going rate is Anichebe having a rather successful season from the bench, and Jelavic finishing the season stronger when we have Gibson and Mirallas back, hopefully for longer periods than the start of the season.
773 Posted 14/01/2013 at 20:09:18
Yes, they did a job to be fair but it's up to Everton to have variation and different options, which we don't have too many of. In the case of Jelavic, when we signed him, he had his own style and has now since probably been brainwashed by "track back" Moyes!! — and "cover more ground" and all that shite!
We need to get the ball moving faster through the middle of the park and not just down the left, where everyone is sussing that out, with Pienaar and Baines, but vary the play a bit, that should create more for Jelavic to get on to!!
776 Posted 14/01/2013 at 20:02:14
Can somebody please tell me why Moyes would ask a striker to run into the corners? What would be the benefit in doing so? Or are you saying, that Moyes is deliberately trying to ruin the team?
I can see that Felli's advance forward has seen him scoring more goals early on in the season (he has scored more than Rooney, Torres, Lampard, Tevez and Mata), but I also give Jela credit there as he has made the movements pulling defenders away to give Felli the space to move into. And certainly, his finishing is nowehere near the levels of last year. He has plenty of chances this season, and his conversion ratio has been poor (by his own standards). That said, he has still scored six this season in the Premier League, so he is not exactly the same as the Yak, Beattie or Johnson when they hit a barren patch.
I just see this as another lazy piece that suggests a 5 million pound striker should be as consistent as the top strikers in the league. Dream on.
777 Posted 14/01/2013 at 20:10:33
Whilst Anichebe tries hard he does not have the zip nor the skills to compliment Jela or fill in for Mirallas. More opportunities should be given to Vellios who shows a lot more movement and is dangerous in the air.
786 Posted 14/01/2013 at 20:34:01
791 Posted 14/01/2013 at 20:41:44
801 Posted 14/01/2013 at 20:56:00
He's a quality player and just needs a bit of luck. It's not as if he's not contributing. A couple of goals and he's back in double figures.
Sometimes, I swear some people want our players to fail so they can point the finger at someone.
807 Posted 14/01/2013 at 21:17:50
810 Posted 14/01/2013 at 21:36:24
We badly need to make a few signings. If we don't strengthen now it will be the biggest waste since we last finished in the top 4. I don't blame Moyes for not signing a new contract. We can't even give him a budget of a championship side.
811 Posted 14/01/2013 at 21:33:28
815 Posted 14/01/2013 at 21:45:54
But my view has always been very simple. We have never had a full season from Jelavic so what if this is his true form.
What if the last part of last season was a honeymoon period. An anomaly where Jelavic went through a purple patch and scored a lot of goals. We all assumed that was his form but maybe he just hit the form of his life in a purple patch.
What if this season is his true form? We have had a better look at him now and to me he seems short of the quality to put goals away.
All the conspiracy theories and questions about Moyes asking him to work too much might just be a lot of nonsense.
What if last season was a purple patch anomaly? What if this season is his true form?
816 Posted 14/01/2013 at 21:46:40
I'd rather have his off days now than in the run in for the top 4 later ! 3 at Anfield would be a nice start...
817 Posted 14/01/2013 at 21:53:00
John is right. To get the most out of him the delivery needs to be into the box that allows him to excel at his one touch finish. Osman probably us that person. Paul is right do you trade this for the goals from Fellaini up top?
822 Posted 14/01/2013 at 22:04:38
I don't say we should give up on Jelavic. I actually think he is useful and will score goals in the long run but at the moment he cannot buy a goal and maybe a spell on the sidelines will help.
Is it such a bad thing to send Jelavic a message.....Score goals or you wont be picked?
And would it really hurt Apostolos Vellios or Conor McAleny to have a couple of games? Both of them are 21 this season and they need to start gaining experience or Moyes might as well cut his loses and get rid of them to make way for Hallam Hope.
828 Posted 14/01/2013 at 22:20:25
831 Posted 14/01/2013 at 22:37:34
862 Posted 14/01/2013 at 23:40:06
Jelavic likes to run onto a ball although for a big man his hold up play is not bad.
I just wish he would get his head on more though.
879 Posted 14/01/2013 at 17:53:11
884 Posted 15/01/2013 at 03:07:55
That being said the stats don't tell the whole story, the lad definately looks a little out of form and low on confidence, but to suggest he's similar to Johnson. Please!
Jelavic has got more technical ability than Johnson could ever dream of, its just that he lacks a bit of pace. It's a pity you can't add the pace of Johnson to Jelavic, because then you'd have an extremely dangerous forward.
I think that he looks much better when Mirallas and Coleman have been playing. Perhaps its to do with them being willing to run at defences, down the right wing and give Everton serious options for opening up opposition teams on both sides of the pitch.
I'm interested to see how he does in the run up to May. But I would also like to see how Anichebe and Mirallas would combine.
886 Posted 15/01/2013 at 04:25:10
888 Posted 15/01/2013 at 05:13:05
889 Posted 15/01/2013 at 05:24:12
945 Posted 15/01/2013 at 11:40:02
I think it's just a blip he's having, every striker has one even RvP did a few years back before he became a goalscoring machine. I think starting from Southampton on Monday night Jelavic will go on another goal scoring run that will last right up until the end of the season and see us into the Champions League spot.
959 Posted 15/01/2013 at 12:28:59
964 Posted 15/01/2013 at 12:50:39
970 Posted 15/01/2013 at 13:47:23
976 Posted 15/01/2013 at 14:19:17
My smile always goes a little wider when the camera goes to the red shite in the crowd, sat on his own with loads of blues going mental around him.
Priceless.
977 Posted 15/01/2013 at 14:36:13
983 Posted 15/01/2013 at 15:08:28
Osman should have four goals this season if the West Ham one had been given. Yes, he's missed a few shots but there were also some good saves in there from Cech. Not bad for someone playing as holding creative player.
Once again if we compare 'greatest goals' compilations of all the players in this squad you'll find that probably none compare to some of Osman's finishes over the years. Only took one home draw for him to become the usual scapegoat again didn't it.
006 Posted 15/01/2013 at 18:11:21
013 Posted 15/01/2013 at 18:39:01
He's not doing too badly this year, and as has been mentioned above with a little more luck – hitting the bar and post against Chelsea, missing that chance by a whisker on Saturday, having a goalbound shot handled at Reading all spring to mind – he'd be well up the goalscoring charts as well. I think, and always have thought, that he'll be a good striker for us but one who scores around 15 goals a season, not 20-25. If he can do that, he's an absolute bargain.
Some people are determined to over analyse things, if you watch his performances last year and this I bet you'll only see one obvious difference and that's the number of goals. All the talk of running round too much is just typical "someone's to blame" rubbish.
018 Posted 15/01/2013 at 19:08:23
He is a such a poacher – he always seems to be in the right place at the right time, and he gets his foot on the end of things that other strikers wouldn't even be near, and he is still doing that.
The difference is that at the moment those little toe pokes just aren't going in – more through bad luck than anything else.
Also last season he had a lot of sublime one-touch finishes – he scored a lot of half-chances that were just rude to score from. He really would benefit from a quality partner to improve his chances, and that's not something we can blame on him. However, he's the kind of striker who could score in 3 or 4 consecutive games and the perceived problem disappears.
It's been too long since we had a 20-a-year striker. And there aren't that many in the Premier League outside the main suspects. If he scores 15 a season for us, I think that's a good return. He currently has 6 in 21; so I'm hoping for a 1 in 2 return for the rest of the season.
062 Posted 15/01/2013 at 22:18:27
Hopefully before too long we can get our best eleven out with Gibson coming in for Pip to supplement Kev, Jela and Fella in order to get some wins together as the fight for fourth is going to be areal battle against the 3 London clubs.
076 Posted 16/01/2013 at 00:09:11
Unfortunately even though it's free, you need to hand over CC detail just to sign-in, so nuts to you, iTunes.
078 Posted 16/01/2013 at 00:34:34
081 Posted 16/01/2013 at 01:43:01
James Martin, while I'm infamously one of Osman's biggest detractors on here, I'm going to agree that when he scores, they usually are pretty sweet looking goals. I do think in the past he wasted a lot of chances for every goal he did score, but the fact that he doesn't have an ever present bullet shot on him, most of his finishes have some finesse.
087 Posted 16/01/2013 at 01:22:43
Jelavic has scored few great goals from left wing crosses but has missed many sitters... and I mean REAL sitters (last minute v Chelsea etc).
The lad has always loved right wing crosses but they are just not happening. Hibbert can do it on occasion but not nearly enough. As for Mirallas and Coleman, they are both reluctant to cross the ball, preferring instead to cut in and have a shot. Fellaini quietly remonstrating with Mirallas has been a common sight.
I can't emphasize enough the importance of this leftside / rightside thing. People just don't want to listen... and it is definitely not in the Mr Moyes coaching manual. Otherwise he would have done something about it.
Long ago, when I was a bum right-footed centre-forward, I was never comfortable with left wing crosses. In the air or on the ground, they just felt the wrong way round. Some I would convert; some would cause me to make a complete hash of things. Like Jelly's Chelsea miss and Ossie's pathetic header.
On TalkSport, Andy Gray admitted to having the same problem. He said there is not one striker in the world who is equally proficient from both sides... including Ronaldo and Messi.
So that's it. If we are to get the best out of Jelavic we will require the services of Donovan, Valencia or Stanley Matthews.
095 Posted 16/01/2013 at 07:12:58
I would pick Stanley Matthews ahead of him, even though he must be 100 and odd years old.
100 Posted 16/01/2013 at 08:25:12
107 Posted 16/01/2013 at 09:02:23
"Fellaini quietly remonstrating with Mirallas has been a common sight." – Not too common, he's hardly played.
"I can't emphasize enough the importance of this leftside / rightside thing. People just don't want to listen... and it is definitely not in the Mr Moyes coaching manual. Otherwise he would have done something about it." – What are you going on about fella?
"we will require the services of Donovan" – Annnnnnnd there it is.......fuck me!
115 Posted 16/01/2013 at 09:23:53
I was subjected to hour upon hour of heading crosses coming in from the left – both directing them towards goal and "passing" with my head (it was, also, the first time I'd heard a coach say the phrase "peripheral vision"). The rest, as they say, is history, albeit of limited impact on the world of amateur football.
129 Posted 16/01/2013 at 10:42:08
139 Posted 16/01/2013 at 11:55:20
Even this season, Jelavic has scored important goals when Everton needed victory at home to Southampton and Spurs because of his instinct to be in the right place at the right time. This season, I don't think Fellaini or Anichebe give the same type of support. While everything this season seems to come exclusively from the left-hand side.
152 Posted 16/01/2013 at 12:57:13
Last season, how was he banging his goals in? Tapping it in, one touch finishes from wide deliveries on the ground. His goal against Villa this season is a fine example, and probably the only example of him scoring a Jelavic-type goal this season. Watch how he drifts in and out and makes himself available to tap it in from a ball coming in wide.
He needs to play higher, with Fellaini up front we are using the long-ball more than ever, but that shouldn't be the way we feed Jelavic. He needs to work on his positioning and Moyes needs Baines to play it on the ground a bit more.
156 Posted 16/01/2013 at 13:22:13
157 Posted 16/01/2013 at 13:27:51
He has pretty much summed it up with this comment;
"He plays so deep he's never offside..
http://www.sportskeeda.com/2013/01/13/players-with-most-number-of-offsides-in-the-premier-league/"
So, argument over? It's clear that Jelavic doesn't play deep at all. End of thread?
194 Posted 16/01/2013 at 16:57:04
Firstly, that's just it: a number of chances that have fallen his way have been half-chances. If we look at the Chelsea game, barring the fluff miss-kick in the final minute, many of the chances were half-chances and he was unlucky.
He has been through a dip in form in recent weeks (or event months), which is cause for concern, but I believe much of that has been down to the way we play. We've never had a striker who has been completely comfortable playing as a "lone striker". Not even Big Dunc was at his awe-inspiring best when playing along up front. Jelavic has had a loss of confidence and he's almost trying too hard. His work rate is right up there, but his eagerness is defeating him.... resulting in miss-kicks and constantly being off-side.
Coming back to the manner in which we are playing, this is a formation issue. Fellaini has been but up top just behind Jelavic, but this doesn't seem to be working for him and he often seems to be pushed out wide, where he is creating opportunities for others with a less than natural ability than he has to put the ball in the net.
I tend to think that, with Mirallas back in the side and Fellaini back in centre midfield, we would see a different Jelavic if Anichebe was played alongside him as a natural out-and-out front two. It's conjecture of course because I don't know for certain, I can only summise but, from what I've seen this season, the biggest problem for Jelavic has been our formation and the way he has been forced to adapt his game.
We also tend to play a lot of balls high into the box, which suits Fellaini much more than it does Jelavic. He's not a target man in this sense and does so much better with the ball into feet. When was the last time you could remember seeing a quality ball played into Jelavic's feet, or just in front of him, that he could run on to and finish? I can't recall 1 in the last 6 or 7 games.
Personally, I think we continue to give him our support and backing and see what is delivered when we have a formation that plays more to his strengths.
217 Posted 16/01/2013 at 19:22:14
218 Posted 16/01/2013 at 19:24:45
I do remember shortly after his arrival that a number of voices were whispering that he was a short-term impact player at every club he'd been at, possibly with itchy feet. Stories a couple of months ago about falling out with Mirallas about his selfishness had me worried that he was eyeing the exit door.
This hasn't been repeated (perhaps because of Mirallas's absence?) and may have been malicious gossip in any case, but it does pose a question — if they couldn't play together or if one had to be shown the door, who would you choose to stay?
223 Posted 16/01/2013 at 19:56:00
He's been unlucky in my opinion in recent weeks. He hit the woodwork a couple of times against Chelsea (and then they scored straight afterwards), and he had another 3 or 4 decent, not sitter chances against Swansea. As long as he keeps getting the chances, he will score in a run. If he was missing sitters, or not getting anything it would be time to worry.
If he had scored some penalties, would we be saying anything?
229 Posted 16/01/2013 at 19:26:06
I think it is harsh to say DM hasn't done anything to resolve the issue of the lack of a truly potent threat on the right, as Mirallas and Naismith must have been brought in with that in mind. Whether he has done it with one specific player in mind or just for team balancing is hard to tell (maximising the right-hand threat doesn't always seem to be at the forefront of his mind).
Shoddy response from TJW (below his normal standards) as it looks like misrepresentation to me. It doesn't take a genius to understand what you meant with those statements, and the editing of the last one (leaving out Valencia and Matthews) changes its emphasis completely.
234 Posted 16/01/2013 at 20:29:08
Let's be honest, at times this season he has fed off absolute scraps. We've over-played, allowing massed defenses to funnel back rather than getting it forward to Pienaar and Mirallas. Jelavic can't make his trademark dummy run pull off if he has the whole of the opposition (and our) midfield in the box with him. He works best when the defense is running towards their own goal and he can follow them in with his movement and finish anything that comes across. Whenever we have got in these positions though we've seen far too many over-hit floated crosses to the back post for Fellaini (or usually nobody) or Baines has slowed down trying to tee up the perfect goal for someone on the edge of the box.
Compare this to somoene like Suarez who sometimes gets 5 or 6 guilt edged opportunities in a match, he's actually a pretty woeful finisher but even he takes one or two of them. Jelavic would be gobbling them up, but our transition play from front to back is just not quick enough. Suarez only has to beat one or two men as they're perennially on the break; Jelavic has to contend with congested boxes all the time.
As ever, I will blame Fellaini; sometimes holding the ball up is not enough, sometimes you want someone (like Mirallas was doing) in that number 10 role to turn his man and play Jelavic in first time, or set Pienaar free for a pull back to Jelavic. Not to hold it up and pass it back to Neville who then goes back to Jagielka and then it eventually goes wide for Baines to get some form of cross towards the back post in. It's not good enough!
Jelavic was getting loads of headed goals for rangers, and just look what he did when he got first time balls in from Hibbert v Man U and Coleman v Southampton (would have been two but for that wonder save). He needs to be given even a shred of room in the box; no striker is going to get 20 goals a season if he's constantly sharing the penalty area with both teams.
That sort of edge-of-the-box domination that we saw against Swansea looks good in terms of dominance, but the only way to score is from a header or a long shot. This tactic has been favoured far too much this season as our ability to keep the ball has increased and Fellaini's aerial prowess is being utilised. Perhaps last season (maybe with Gibson having more of an influence) we were going from front to back quicker and Jelavic was getting numerous chances per game ,the majority of which he was putting away. Those chances are just not there any more because we spend too long dithering on the ball rather than going for the jugular like Man Utd do.
You can see that Gibson is a Man Utd player, he'd rather play it forward and have it intercepted than go backwards or sideways, like Carrick he puts people on the front foot and their defense turned. When he doesn't play we just seem to go sideways, no-one is running, and their defense only have to shuffle from side to side.
237 Posted 16/01/2013 at 20:29:40
Maybe the mythology is getting out of hand if we expect him to convert every great chance that comes his way. Never has and (I would think) never will.
Possibly part of the reason for what is reported in the first part of the first sentence is neatly encapsulated in the last part of the same sentence. The more frustrated he gets, the more likely he is to snatch at opportunities.
No short answers, if any exist at all (Could his 'mojo' be lost forever?). For me, it is simply a case of keep playing him and hope it clicks again for him soon. Would treat him differently if he looked disinterested or demotivated, which he doesn't to me.
268 Posted 16/01/2013 at 21:39:34
Many thanks, lads. This thing has bugged me for years and it's a relief to get it off my chest. The best example being the famous Darren Bent missed header from a left wing cross which Harry Redknap's mother could have scored. Of course, he still manages to put the ball away from all over the place but the absolute glaring, red-faced howler is always on the horizon and the scenario is always the same.
And Si... You might well be right with the Naismith / Mirallas intended tactic. The same thought did occur to me later on. As for Coleman, he'll rarely cross the ball early but I'm not sure I'd want him to. He gives us something different. His sudden burst of pace and mazy dribbles never cease to thrill and the end product will continue to improve as he develops and matures. Quite a gem this lad. Hope we never lose him.
Phil (#115): Thanks again. It didn't turn out too bad after all. You were obviously playing down your ability as an amateur footballer. Hours and hours of practice and a coach who talked about peripheral vision, lead me to believe that you played for a really good outfit.
272 Posted 16/01/2013 at 23:58:16
Not denying what you are saying but I think top strikers (no disrespect) learn how to tailor their approach to compensate for balls from their weaker side. I'm still in awe of Jelavic's header against Chelsea; came from the wrong side, he had mistimed his run but still managed to twist his body to get an almost perfect connection and the ball cannoned of the post/crossbar (can't remember). He's more than good enough to put them away irrespective of whatever area of the pitch they are delivered from.
286 Posted 17/01/2013 at 06:35:16
I have a problem with Moyes unwillingness to mix his tactics when he is lacking players. Sending Barkley away and keeping Hitz makes no sense right now with Gibson out all the time.
Fellaini has been important to us, but he should either play him as midfielder or striker because Jelavic needs a regular partner. So far Jelavic has done not much so he should be dropped as Darren Bent got dropped at Villa.
Why continue to play a striker out of form? I am sure both Vellios and Anichebe is burning to do a better job! Give Vellios a chance from the start of games, we have a better team this season so Vellios will do better because of that.
304 Posted 17/01/2013 at 09:31:17
I totally agree with your view; when Donovan played, the whole team was balanced with real threat from either flank. Swansea could not have tactically played with two full backs to nullify Baines and Pienaar if we also had Donovan and Hibbert on the other side.
As a team we had more options, we were more difficult to handle and you also have the advantage of playing to our striker's good foot!
Makes sense to me..
329 Posted 17/01/2013 at 12:07:29
Christine, hopefully Mirallas will stay fit and we can have that balance again.
444 Posted 17/01/2013 at 21:15:33
475 Posted 18/01/2013 at 00:01:41
Who cares? Not one fucker on here has the answer and neither does Moyes who earns a garage sized wedge of cash to get players like Jelavic scoring.
More importantly, Asahi lager is on offer in Sainsburys.
538 Posted 18/01/2013 at 11:45:39
Moyes does have the answer. Jelavic is the new Johnson, Bent, Beattie, Yakubu, Saha, & Beckford. He is just another name to the long list of forwards who have been left isolated up front on his own, due to the managers insistence on playing one up top.
Give the guy some support and he will bang in the goals.
539 Posted 18/01/2013 at 11:57:56
544 Posted 18/01/2013 at 12:18:43
A: Last season was J's honeymoon period.
B: Defenders have worked him out to an extent.
C: Lack of goals has dented his confidence, making him less likely to score.
D: He's still a top striker, he's working hard and will come good again.
E: We are not playing to his strengths.
OK, E is a bit disputable, but not much. Fellaini is cramping his style. He needs early balls into the box. Think of that wonderful goal he scored in the cup against Sunderland, connecting with a cross from Gueye. Playing Fellaini deeper, perhaps with Naismith in behind Jelavic would be a solution, but that robs us of Fellaini's threat near goal, which has been a matchwinner for us.
That's the dilemma of being a manager — to what extent do you organise the team around individual players? You simply cannot play to everyone's strengths. You end up going for the optimum blend, don't you. Cahill worked well with Jelavic last season, although he wasn't much of a threat himself. Fellaini is kind of the opposite.
When Mirallas returns, it will probably help Jelavic. Not necessarily directly, in terms of him laying on goals for him, but because we will play in a different way which will take the focus away from Fellaini, thereby freeing up space for Jelly.
564 Posted 18/01/2013 at 13:46:33
Fellaini playing in the hole, like Cahill did, is not two up front.
580 Posted 18/01/2013 at 14:55:02
590 Posted 18/01/2013 at 15:21:54
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659 Posted 14/01/2013 at 13:40:37
Jelavic is playing pretty much exactly how he did last season with the exception that last season he put away the majority of half chances and this season he hasn't. Hopefully its just a dip in luck/form.
Also hate to say it but if you think that strikers can't work hard, run the channels and still score goals then look across the park at rat face.