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One for the Refs

In the Brentford v Chelsea game, John Terry from just outside the penalty area passed back to his keeper. The referee awarded Brentford a free kick from where Terry was when he passed back.

My question is: Where did the infringement actually occur? Was it where Terry kicked the ball or where the keeper handled it?

Following on from that, If the keeper illegally handled the ball should a penalty kick and possible red card have been awarded.

Dick Fearon, West Australia Posted 28/01/2013 at 02:21:27

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Andrew Ellams
615 Posted 28/01/2013 at 15:07:07

Indirect free kick Dick and it should be from where the keeper picked it up.

Dave Roberts
660 Posted 28/01/2013 at 15:58:50

The foul occurs (surely) when the keeper picks it up. It's not a foul to pass back to the goalie as long as the goalie doesn't use his hands so it is the goalie who is committing the foul when he does just that. So the referee was wrong in my opinion but then who am I?

Nick Entwistle
688 Posted 28/01/2013 at 16:32:53

Indirect from point of pick up, however I'm thinking if it was picked up on the goal line then there's a possible choice to move it back ten yards.

And the goalie is free to pick it up if he so wants.

Tony Cheek
764 Posted 28/01/2013 at 18:12:38

Must be Indirect where the keeper picked it up.....and another I was unsure about was in the Oldham V RS game. Think it was Gerrard took a throw in from 5 yds forward from where the ref signalled. He was then allowed to take the throw again, surely it then goes to the opponents....or what?

Mike Webb
769 Posted 28/01/2013 at 18:30:32

Tony, if the referee deems he was taking from the wrong position, he can get him to re-take from the correct position. However, if he deems him to be "stealing yards" (which he was) then he can award the throw to the other side (which he should've done). I'd go further to say a red card should follow, but I'd be accused of being biased!

Mike Brevet
785 Posted 28/01/2013 at 19:09:16

Indirect free kick where the goalkeeper picked it up. However, to Nick's (688) point... If the ball was picked up on the goal line (or anywhere in the goal area), the restart must be taken on the goal area line parallel to the goal line at the point nearest to where the infringement occurred (Law 13). This is the only time where the defending team can legally be less than 10 yards away from the restart.

Jamie Sweet
825 Posted 28/01/2013 at 20:26:36

Another one that bugs me is when a player takes a throw and it doesn't make it into play, he gets to take it again.

Why should he? If you're crap enough to throw a ball out of play, from an inch from the touchline, you don't deserve to be allowed to take it again. In fact you should be booked for being shite.

Andrew James
894 Posted 29/01/2013 at 00:42:27

About Steven G at Oldham, that was a blatant case of cheating. He should have been red carded, shot and buried at Boundary Pk.

But seriously, it was nice seeing a League 1 match...

Wow I'm gonna regret this if Oldham knock us out...Moyesy take revenge for '08!!!

Roman Sidey
903 Posted 29/01/2013 at 03:55:20

It definitely had to be a free-kick from where the goalie touched it. This was another case of poor reffing in favour of the Prem team goalie, as what's-his-face booked old mate from Oldham for kicking out at the ball in front of Jones, when he should have booked Jones and possible Skrtel.

Gerry Rutter
904 Posted 29/01/2013 at 04:23:18

Re Gerrard at Oldham, I was watching highlights of the Shite vs Oldham here in Aussie complete with expert comments from one S Nicol. As soon as Stevie G got on the pitch he began running after the ref and shouting at him at every opportunity to which Mr Nicol commented that it was very out of character for Stevie to remonstrate with the ref as he's not that kind of player. I nearly choked on my cornflakes! COYB.

Peter Leslie
905 Posted 29/01/2013 at 04:17:26

Laws say (paraphrasing) that a penalty (and by extension, a yellow or red) can only be awarded for an offence in the box punishable by award of a DIRECT free kick. Picking the ball up from a backpass, or obstruction, are indirect free kicks, so the ref got it right.

Back in the 80s you saw indirect free kicks in the box every week, but they went out of fashion for some reason about the time goalies were stopped from handling the ball from backpasses.

I think the return of the indirect free kick would give the refs a tool to deal with misbehaviour in the box from corners and free kicks, and also that annoying "shield the ball out over the goal line from 20 yards out by blocking off the winger even if you aren't in range of playing the ball" crap, which also gets on my tit ends.

Derek Thomas
908 Posted 29/01/2013 at 06:30:09

RS — you get exactly what it says on the tin.

Bob Parrington
915 Posted 29/01/2013 at 07:48:53

Watched Oldham vs RS. They outplayed RS for most of the game. OK, RS came back a bit towards the end but Oldham deserved the win!! Anybody disagree?

Agree about the throw. Ref error but otherwise he wasn't too bad!

We need to be prepared for Oldham. They went in strong but mostly fairly and intimidated RS. Load of wingeing .....! Fellaini - keep your cool, man - watch the elbow and the head! (if you're still with us, that is?)

Lee Mandaracas
938 Posted 29/01/2013 at 09:59:00

@ Peter Leslie (905) I think you have misinterpreted the complaint. The observation was not that it should have been a penalty rather than an indirect free kick (or vice versa) but that the free kick should have taken place from the position where the 'keeper handled the ball. It was instead awarded from the point Terry passed the ball back to the 'keeper.

On your third paragraph though I could not agree more! Really winds me up to see this acceptance of the absurd notion of 'shielding the ball'. When I was a lad it was plain and simple obstruction, resulted in a free kick and forced players to do that thing... oh what's the word?... oh yes that's it: PLAY!

Andrew Mahon
948 Posted 29/01/2013 at 10:31:27

What about when a goal kick is played by the GK to the edge of the box. Attacker closes down and the defender goes inside the box to play it. Should be a foul but only goal kick to be replayed.

Martin Faulkner
962 Posted 29/01/2013 at 03:42:12

Peter, totally agree with you on the obstruction of wingers complaint. Lee is right, back in the 80s when I played a bit it was a foul, there's a big difference between shielding a ball and actually obstructing someone else, you've got to have it to shield it imho.

Ref got it wrong in the Terry case by the sounds of it, where did he end up giving the free kick from? I'd have booked Terry for it cause he's a cunt.

Kev Johnson
987 Posted 29/01/2013 at 12:57:35

Does not having your socks pulled up constitute an infringement?

In the 1970s, it was de rigeur for tricky wingers to flash their shins at opposing full backs, but now it isn't. Similarly, is the wearing of shinpads now compulsory?

Personally, I think the current fashion for pulling up socks over the knee is hideous and should be punishable with a red card and subsequent FA charge for bringing the game into disrepute. Leave stockings to the ladies, eh lads.

Andrew Ellams
988 Posted 29/01/2013 at 13:10:55

Totally agree Kev. Couldn't imagine Dave Thomas with his socks up and shirt tucked in.

Colin McBride
992 Posted 29/01/2013 at 13:35:21

Shin pads are compulsory, the sock must cover the shin pad and any tape worn to hold up the sock must be the same colour as the sock.

What complete bollox!

Phil Bellis
005 Posted 29/01/2013 at 14:23:53

Kev

"...socks over the knee is hideous.."

Not when the wearer is Rachel Unitt

Down boy!

Steve Carse
011 Posted 29/01/2013 at 15:01:29

Whatever the law currently says it should be changed. The keeper by picking up a back pass is illegally stopping an opposition attack. If he does so by handling outside the area it's a sending off. Why is it any different if inside? Particularly as inside the box it's more likely to be preventing a goal scoring opportunity.

Tony J Williams
016 Posted 29/01/2013 at 15:24:21

Amen Phil..

Dave Roberts
030 Posted 29/01/2013 at 16:06:04

Three things I agree with in this thread....

1. It should have been indirect from where keeper picked the ball up.

2. The referee was a knobhead.

3. Gerrard is a twat.

Sorry FOUR things I agree with....

4. Terry is a twat too but not as much of a twat as Gerrard.

Barry Earley
034 Posted 29/01/2013 at 16:15:15

Dave Roberts, may I please second your post?

Paul McGinty
048 Posted 29/01/2013 at 16:50:41

Of the unusual Laws of the Game, I think my favorite is a team cannot score an own goal direct off its own corner. Doesn't happen much/at all in 11 a side but if playing 7 on 7 or similar on a small side field under Fifa rules, it does. So be prepared.

Kev Johnson
057 Posted 29/01/2013 at 17:28:34

I refereed a match one, it was on astro turf between my work team and another lot. At one point I blew for offside. Quite reasonably, one of the players pointed out – with a certain amount of exasperation and one or two swear words – that you can't be offside from a throw in. "Oh yeah," replied, "I forgot." Oops. Harder than it looks, this refereeing lark. Also, absolutely bloody knackering.

Davie Turner
058 Posted 29/01/2013 at 17:34:05

Can't score an own goal direct from your own goal kick either, sad days.

Roman Sidey
060 Posted 29/01/2013 at 17:42:15

How does that offside in the six-yard box work? It has always confused me.

Nick Entwistle
063 Posted 29/01/2013 at 17:51:37

Steve 011, I understand where you're coming from, but the rule was introduced to stop the time wasting of passing back the keeper's hands.

As such a transgression shouldn't receive a card as it would either be committed by A - being a dozy clot, or B - making a necessary save. Neither is time wasting with intent, so... so yeah.

Kev Johnson
068 Posted 29/01/2013 at 17:54:13

Check this out...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/06/you-are-the-ref-fellaini#

The website address is slightly misleading. Fellaini is not the ref, he is just gratuitously pictured! I think Situation 1 is wonderful – I'd love to witness that one!

Kev Johnson
071 Posted 29/01/2013 at 18:05:03

Hold on, Situation 2 in this strip is even funnier than the tannoy announcer... What to do if the keeper drops his shorts to put off an advancing forward...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/mar/13/you-are-the-ref-luca-modric

Si Cooper
075 Posted 29/01/2013 at 17:50:57

Can't score own goals direct from corners or goal kicks. Why not? If you can manage it from either of those situations without trying to it would be something to behold, and if you do it on purpose you won't have a job for very long I wouldn't have thought. If the rule is there to rule out freak weather conditions, then I would suggest that the game may be unplayable in those conditions.

Reffing any sport is difficult, because you have to remember all the exceptions to the rules, keep up with play at all times, and try to keep out of the way of the players / ball.

Agree that any deliberate contact one yard (or more) from the ball with the sole intention of preventing access to a ball you have no intention of playing yourself has to be obstruction. How it isn't given when the movement is towards the player and away from the ball is beyond me. Especially annoying when knocking the ball past and then running into a stationary opponent is often whistled for.

Mike Allison
248 Posted 29/01/2013 at 21:46:57

The OP has simply described this incident incorrectly. The referee gave the correct decision, an indirect free kick from where the goalkeeper handled the ball.

The free kick was awarded, and taken from, INSIDE the penalty area. Check the footage.

Most of the conversation on here is based on a mistake.

You are all right about Gerrard and Terry though.

Rob McFawn
325 Posted 29/01/2013 at 23:25:16

Si (075), you can't score an own goal from a goal kick as the ball is not in play until it leaves the 18yd box

There's a similar rule about not being able to score an own goal from your own free kick, in which case a corner is awarded

Phil Bellis
337 Posted 30/01/2013 at 00:10:34

Tony J
Cheers,
Wonder what in my post the invigilator found offensive enough to remove!
Still, keeps others guessing what the hell you're on about

Si Cooper
342 Posted 30/01/2013 at 00:14:53

Rob (#325) - I wasn't actually disputing the fact of the rule but I was trying to envision the slice / mis-kick required to achieve it in those circumstances.

I don't see what is gained by not allowing an own goal to be scored, though in the case of the goal-kick at least the fact that it has to go outside the penalty area.

Dick Fearon
362 Posted 30/01/2013 at 04:46:43

Rob @ 305, and others, If a ball from a corner drifts out then comes in without having been touched by any player the result is a goal kick to the defending team. On a local park here in West Oz a goal kick taken into a powerful wind went some distance beyond the penalty area and without being touched it curled back over the keeper and into the net. Was the ref correct in awarding a goal?

Joe Green
363 Posted 30/01/2013 at 04:00:37

Peter and Martin.

Yes, I've also been surprised that referees are allowing defender to shield the ball over the goal line from increasing distances. Watching the QPR vs City game last night (hoping QPR go down – they have too much cash to splash). The QPR fullback not only shielded the ball, but barged the winger backwards – two fouls in my view. Useless commentator said – "oh good defending, he did what he had to do"!

Dennis Stevens
401 Posted 30/01/2013 at 09:35:32

Surely, when the ball crosses the goal line it has left the penalty area &, indeed, the field of play.

Paul McGinty
512 Posted 30/01/2013 at 15:14:18

Dick, I think the ref made the wrong call. The rule is pretty specific: on a goal kick or corner, you can only score direct against the opposing team. Whether the ball went out of the area or not isn't relevant.

You can't score an own goal on your own goal kick (or corner).

I am not 100 percent on the restart but I think — in the case of a goal kick, blowing back into the keeper's own goal without touching any one the ball having left the penalty area — it's a corner for the opposing team. It's laid out somewhere in the laws. I cannot remember exactly where.... it's like reading the fine print on a life insurance document.

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