Well said Tony.

But don't hold your breath. You'll be dead long before Duffy happens to be given a fair shot and run-out I'm afraid.

Surely anyone can look slow, disinterested, weak and out of position?

Is that 3 goals he has cost us in the last 2 games?

[Note the sarcasm in this post.]

What puzzles me is when Moyes talked last month about 'young players making costly mistakes when they play' which was his justification for not playing anyone (Barkley) with less than 100 league appearances, yet Heitinga has made a mistake most times I have seen him this year and it has cost us every time.

Secondly, Shane Duffy is a 21-year-old centre back with almost no first team experience. If you think Heitinga is making mistakes, just wait till you see Duffy. Trust me, a centre back with no experience will make mistakes. Just ask Aston Villa.

Now ask yourself this: With just 13 games to go this season, do you really want Moyes to risk Duffy? With every game so important, do you really want Duffy making mistakes?

Would it not make more sense to put Neville at right back and then simply move Jagielka back to the centre with Distin?

Having said that he's less of a liability than heitinga.

Personally I think it's clear that you play jags and distin at centre back with Oviedo playing right back if necessary.

If I remember right, he linked up with Johnny, who played well with every partner last season.

I haven't ever really liked Johnny. He's too placid for me. Doesn't look interested.

He isn't as bad as he is playing this season though. You don't go from player of the season to being shite in 6 months.

Maybe Duffy would be better but he shouldn't be in the team ahead of Jags and Distin so he's still got a wait to push one from the team.

It seems some on here will just put him in to say " look, one of the kids are playing"

Coming out of the ground, all you could hear was "Heitinga fucking Heitinga!" 30-odd thousand can see this yet the ginger one would probably stick him in again rather than say "I fucked up".

This man has not got a clue, he is the king of playing players out of position, doesn't give youth a chance, regardless of his media reputation as a great manager, and creates teams with no pace whatsoever. I personally hope he doesn't sign a new contract and fucks off to some CL side and gets found out, but there is no chance of that while he's drawing £70k a week.

Did anyone watch Sissoko playing for Newcastle last night...he cost £1.8 mill.
What are our scouts doing ??

If he didn't get a game yesterday with Johnny in such poor form or not interested he never will.

I'd say the same to any youngster under Moyes.

Trevor - I respect your experience at Southport but, as someone said on another thread, there's a genuine difference between playing a "wrong-footed" player in defense and in midfield. It can be a positive advantage when attacking, but in defense you need your tackling foot to be strong. That's particularly the case when you're pint-sized, as Oviedo is, because it's more to do with timing than getting your body in the way.

Let's not totally rule out the possibility of blooding Stones early. Put it this way: if we'd played Barnsley in the Cup, I doubt we'd have come away thinking "Oh, their RB looked out of his depth". The VIlla team was full of kids and they did OK.

I think his first two Newcastle games have proved enough just how good he is and is going to be! And at less than £2m!!

Anyway, back to topic. Heitinga is seriously lacking with confidence right now and it's showing in his performances. But yesterday we should've had Neville at RB and played our best CB Jags in his best position. Maybe we had Jags at RB to deal with the pace of Agbonlahor but we needed him at CB to deal with Benteke, like he exactly did when Heitinga went off.

The thing is with Heitinga, when up against big, powerful CFs, he feels he as to go toe to toe with em and be physical and get tight but he just isn't big or strong enough to do so and just gets brushed a side and made to look shit!

Lukaku he struggled with a few times the other night, Benteke yesterday, Ameobi up at Newcastle and Carlton Cole against West Ham — all big powerful lads and he couldn't handle any of 'em, and the later two are shite!

When Johnny went off yesterday and Jags went to CB, we as a team did better and defended better and Jags played Benteke to a tee! He never got a kick really, but Jags as that nouse of knowing how to play people and that's what makes him a really good defender and our best.

As for Duffy, unfortunately he won't get a chance from Moyes whilst we're as high in the league as we are as he'll feel Duffy is liable to make a mistake cos of his inexperience which may cost us points, but then again, we have an experienced CB in Heitinga that is doing so, so whats difference?!

Don't know why he doesn't give him a chance tbh, the last few games he played last season he was solid and did very well, least he wants to put in a tackle and put his head on things.

Or if not Duffy, why not give the lad Stones a chance at RB, he's got game experience from his time at Barnsley, why not give him a crack at it?

You could well have a point but i'd still like to see Duffy given a chance and i'd like to think he at least wouldn't be bullied as easy as Heitinga is.

He lacks experience and in a centre back that is vital. I believe he must get experience at the highest level and therefore he must get a chance soon. He'll make mistakes,no doubt, but he will be a top defender and a great asset for the club. Although I totally respect his decision I sometimes wish he'd opted for Northern Ireland. He'd have dozens of caps by now and experience against some world class forwards; for selfish Everton reasons that would be good, he'd be making his mistakes elsewhere.

Heitinga is a fine player who has not suddenly become bad, something is wrong ,though. Maybe yesterday will focus his mind and get him back to last years form. , for now though, if Jags is at right back Duffy should start.

A decent professional should be two footed and concentrate on practicing with his weaker foot.
For example taking corners during training and even penalties.
Unless a player is as gifted as Messi or Maradona or Puskas, he should be two footed and work at it so that he is more useful.

The bottom line is that whatever the defensive line up, it can't be worse than Heitinga yesterday but others were also culpable too. The first goal was by far the worst. I wouldn't have minded if Heitinga had actually forced benteke wide, but he didn't, he just let him go past him. With The second goal, whilst he failed to jump, others were equally slack. The ball wasn't cleared properly from the corner and there was no closing down. Also, as pointed out on another thread, all 3 goals came down our supposedly brilliant left hand side.

I would love to hear of the "many top class" left footed full backs who play at right back. Frankly, I won't be holding my breath, as I know that there aren't many. Lahm of Germany springs to mind, and there are probably a few others, but they are very much the exception.Similarly, your assertion that "most" full backs are small and mobile isn't really true. Some are (Baines, Cole, etc), but some aren't (Johnson at Lpool, Walker at Spurs, Ivanovic at Chelsea

Anyway, I'm not arguing against Oviedo. Maybe he can cut the mustard at RB. We'll have to see...

I've always encouraged my 13 yr old lad as he was growing up to use both feet, he is left footed and can play both on the left and right side of midfield, he's scored 14 goals this season, 5 of them with his right foot.

You have to remember Moyes watches Duffy in training every day and in reserve games so nobody has a better knowledge of Duffy then Moyes.

Do you honestly think Moyes is standing there during training watching Duffy outshine Heitinga and thinking to himself 'Duffy is a better player but Heitinga is my friend so I'll have to play him'?

Of course not Moyes watches the training and selects the best player available which at present is Johnny Heitinga.

Don't get me wrong I'm not a Heitinga fan. I'll never forget his bike, flag and Barcelona comment. Personally I want to see Neville at right and Jags restored to the centre with Distin.

But I will not join a campaign to get Duffy a game because I do feel nobody knows Duffy better then David Moyes and if Duffy is not getting picked then its because he simply is not up to the standard required.

I think Shane Duffys time will come next season along with one or two others especially if we qualify for Europe regardless of which competition , I also think that our big hitters will stay and it'll be people like Johnny , Hitzlsperger and Naismith who will be jettisoned to bring in cash/make way for new signings,but hey that's just my outlook on things.

All I wanted to say is that Heitinga is able to do a REALLY good job in defence, because he has proven himself earlier. He's not been injured, so it has to be interest or concentration.
Where he never should play again is in midfield. That's a different story..

I'm pro giving Duffy a chance, and put Heitinga on the bench. But to say Heitinga can't play center half is rubbish, when the man played as a mountain there two years ago.

If Ferguson is any kind of mentor to Moyes then you would hope he would see the benefit of blooding young players like Duffy, Barkley, Garbutt, Vellios and Stones throughout a full season. Not playing an inexperienced group at the same time as we did against Leeds. Not exactly a carefully considered nurturing experience for any of them.

The "well look at what's happened to Villa" argument is bullshit too. Everyone on our squad isn't 22. There are leaders everywhere on the pitch. In defense, Baines is 28, Distin 36, and Jags 31. Duffy will be guided by the veterans back there with him. Pienaar and Osman have now reached 30. So blooding in Barkley or Oviedo to give a tired/injured Mirallas or Gibson wouldn't kill us either.

Youth doesn't get experience unless you allow them to play. The kids don't have to come in all at the same time. But they need to come in. Moyes has too much loyalty to players like Neville, Hibbert (when healthy), and Heitinga purely because of "experience" when they make just as many errors (or sometimes more) than the early twenty-somethings.

And of course they will make mistakes, as does all young players (Sterling, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Shaw) and probably that is what Moyes can't get his head round, but amazingly expects it from seasoned pros like Heitinga and Howard!

This is an extract from a post I made on Callums article:
"I just watched Newcastle vs Chelski. Sissoko looks a good buy for the pittance Newcastle paid. Begs the question: if we were out looking for a striker (as reported), why weren't we looking at him as he is within our bargain basic price range?"

I'll be surprised to see Stones get a game this season going by Moyes' record for selecting young players.

The problem was at RB. the cause was... apart from the whole squad system, no proper reserve team, sky, agents, greed, etc etc

a) lack of investment ( Board ) leading to...

b) small squad.

c) Moyes, he does the best he can but is a slave to his own safety first attitude.

Nobody is saying put in 3,4,5, kids in

But one at a time every now and then, especially with our small squad beggers can't afford to be choosers.

If they NEVER get a chance, we will never know. There almost always is an ' up ' to the surrounding players, having to concentrate more, think more, due to the new kid.

Moyesie take the odd chance.

I remember Labone being told where to stand for corners, I remember Labone telling Kenyon where to stand for corners...you learn by doing

If we are to have a small squad, Sq pegs into round holes ( player A might be 'experienced' but only in his own sphere ) and may cause more problems than Kids playing and without the possible bonus of finding a hidden jem who just needed a chance to shine.

But it ain't going to happen

I actually think James Martin 437 is spot on. Duffy is a good prospect and looked good last season but we are playing a much higher line now that requires mobility from a RCB who may be left one on one with Distin having to cover for Baines. Having watched a few reserve games, mobility is not Duffy's strength.

The Jagielka I watch is not fast at all... in fact, it's his ability to put in a good tackle that often saves him from being embarrassed in regard to his pace..

I don't know how you come to the conclusion the he's 'deceptively rapid'...

Heitinga managed to score a winner couple of games ago, and lost us two points this week. If Moyes thinks so, let him get one more chance.

I'll let Andy Crooks off as he has the same disease Jimmy had with Drenthe where Duffy is concerned.

Even though I support David Moyes his team selection/formation is a s much to blame. It was the same with Tim Cahill, after years of loyal service and dedication to all things Blue he was regularly vilified for daring to have a bad game.