Well, I think the gloves are off now if this is the pattern for the second half of the season. It increasingly has all the symptoms of Moyes going off on a strop over his contract situation and the only ones who suffer in that process are us.

As you say, woeful... still the usual will be frothing about money as the excuse before the night is out.

If you want to start throwing stones then chuck them at the board who have done sweet FA to back Moyes despite us being so close to something special. We have 6-7 fantastic players surrounded by utter crap and nothing on the bench. Expecting that team to beat United at home is frankly ridiculous, you'd be calling blue murder is we got turned over by someone like Charlton at home but expect, with a similar spending gap, that we should go toes-to-toe with Man Utd.

Until Moyes is backed with some proper cash then either he will walk, and we are properly fooked, or we will carry on be nearly men. I won't blame him if and when he does go as he is far too good for this joke of a board we have.

Man U just had the better players and played better on the day. They knew by stopping Fellaini and the left side they could stop Everton and then just let RVP do the rest. Heitinga and Osman were a disgrace, their pathetic attempts to track back by casually jogging back had me seething and Neville and Anichebe were an embarrassment. How can a defender with his experience play like such an amature and made such brainless decisions? Thank God we have Jaggs on the field or it would have been a massacre

I get a lot of stick from my match going friends but I'll stick to my guns. We'll win nothing with this man. Like for like doesn't cut it when 2 down with 20 to go. Try something different, you fecking eejit!!!

He's done wonders for this club and stabilised us under a a woeful board. For that I thank you. But really, you're so predictable and boring. I subscribe to a bit better.

Go, with my thanks... but just go.

You people who will slag me off and state "We're 6th and have no money. We're doing well!" — enjoy your mediocrity.

And for the bloke who thought we missed Neville last week (and he was old enough to have seen all our good times) — learn your Latin, fella!!!

First by the Manager who must be the only one in the Premier League who does not believe in youth getting a chance and not having his players fired up instead of frightened; and secondly not having any type of plan or investment in January.

Watching today, I cannot see this team finishing in the top 8. It seems we are turning our seasons around by playing good in the beginning and poor in the second half.

What does next season bring? We have too many players over the age of thirty in our squad, the board should either back Moyes with cash or get rid. Get rid, I say; time for a change.

Average side who are 12 points clear. More bollocks.

The end is nigh.

However, we were ineffectual today, and I'm £300 quid lighter having witnessed the inevitable in person.

Tactics aside though, the players didn't show up. Pienaar, Baines, Fellaini etc were all well below the level they should be at.

Jags coped with more than his fair share and Jelavic looked lively when he came on and the rest should be ashamed.

I'm not one for stats but it suits my argument so here they are from the BBC website.
Possession 53% to 47% in favour of United at Old Trafford.

Shots on target: United 6 Everton 8

Corners United 7 Everton 6

Now I think we rarely threatened them but I don't think we sat back and I don't think we were outplayed. They're better than us.

Just the Emirates, Stamford Bridge & Anfield for us to roll over and be tickled.

Again.

The difference between the teams was the quality up front. When they broke forward, they looked like scoring. We never quite found that quality, often with the final ball lacking.

I don't think anyone had a stinker. Heitinga was at fault for the 1st goal, but overall I thought we played ok - but admittedly we were toothless in attack.

Our failure to finish 4th has been due to drawing against far too many teams, often against weaker opposition. I'm not going to throw the dummies out the pram because we lost away at this year's Championship winning team.

If you want to be angry, be angry that we have dropped so many points against the likes of Reading, QPR, Villa, Wigan etc.

For a period in the first half between 20 mins and 40 I thought we were competing well and if we had scored then I think it could have got interesting. Conceding the second allowed Manure to play on the counter and keep at least 8 men behind the ball and play on the counter. We had neither the craft nor the guile to unlock them. They did a job on Fellaini (who had to drop too deep to get a sniff of the action) and Baines. Flattering really, they were worried but we showed them too much respect.

Moyes needs to get their mojo back as the next 12 games will not get any easier. At least when we start a season poorly he manages our expectations better !

Yes, they are an exhausted bunch but also a group of players with limited ability to put it mildly.

However, leaving the squad investment scandal aside, there is more to be had from these players than we're getting.

Disappointment is from the fact that you know they're capable of more so expect more from them which would mean that deep down you don't really think that the players or Moyes are indeed that bad.

Today was just what happens when you play the same 11 all season long and don't strengthen in January. Physical and mental fatigue combined with an inferiority complex that unfortunately is one of Moyes's worst traits.

If people want to be one of those sides that plays rubbish all season gets turned over at home loads but occasionally may snatch a win at one of the big boys because they didn't bother turning up, then fine. If you want to be a side that is so respected that every away game especially at top sides becomes a difficult challenge then we are going to have to live with some of these days unfortunately.

To be honest Man Utd were just at full pelt today, solid at the back, and incisive up front. Our midfield dominance of the first half shows how much we've improved but the second half just shows the lack of power and pace in the squad which unfortunately only money buys and we have none of it.

The pretty football that would give us half a chance in a game like this has been missing for ages because the system has stagnated and had become just too predictable. Moyes said at the beginning of the season that he'd have to find a few teams this season out of the squad he has, unfortunately he hasn't been true to his word and has flogged this one until it's broken.

Kevin, ineffectual is being kind but at least you had your money where your mouth is. I respect those who defend David Moyes through thick and thin and maybe that's what supporters should do. For me ,though, today saw highly paid professionals letting the supporters down and I think that the performance was totally indefensible.To say so is not knee jerk. We are are playing the way we did the last time Moyes dithered over his contract. Sign or go.

The squad is running out of steam, our lack of depth is apparent but we havent got anything the resources in terms of money or squad as Utd have.

I was a Moyes critic for years, but do you really want to go back to the relegation battles of a decade ago or be in a position now where we are upset that defeat has hindered our for a CHAMPIONS LEAGUE spot, all this without resources, did you watch Man City last night who have a number of 20 and 30 million pound plus players?!

Everybody is entitled to their opinion and are as valid as mine but as Evertonians it doesnt do us any harm to take a reality check!

When was the last time an Everton player was 'man marked' as Fellani was today?!!

I thought we were diabolical in the final third today, Victor was dire IMO, im gutted but on the whole my glass in half full!

I think for us to compete against the very best we need massive investment that we don't have. Yes, we beat them at Goodison — in one-off games and with all our best players playing at their best, we can beat them. But we can't sustain that form through a whole season. Also, they knew if the win today that is another league title in the bag, so it wasn't just another game for United — it was the game that clinched the Premier League title

We lost and it was a very accomplished result for the most successful side in the premier league. We did not take our chances and they did. Nothing else to report because we had plenty of possession, just no cutting edge. De gea made a few good saves. Not unexpected as a result.

12 games to go and it is still there for the taking. Yes we will need to win at the Emirates and beat Spurs and the Shite, but we should be aiming for that anyway.

This time last year our 3 January signing gave us a big push towards a solid end of season, this year we will probably run out of steam, our last 2 games on Sky have shown that.

I would love more, but I don't think I could face them stomach churning relagation battles again.

Id love us to be more successful and have a greater expectancy but 25 years of mediocrity has given me a more realistic view on things.

Im lucky enough to have seen us win the league, Cup etc in the 80's, there are Evertonians out there who remember us winning nothing!

I just don't think today is as bad as people are making out, be careful what you wish for with a change of manager also Victors 1st touch is completely woeful!!!

To watch Elstone and Kenwright peering on from the stands prior to kick off told you all that you needed to know. Forget fourth place, blood a couple of the youngsters in Stones and Duffy and try to make a fist of progressing in the FA Cup. Probably Moyes last chance at a crack on silverware with Everton.

Improved football from last season a decent start and wins against Utd and Spurs suggested things might have changed with the bad old days of bending over at certain grounds before a ball kicked a thing of the past. The evidence of today proves otherwise.

People are rightly racked off - this was a training exercise for Utd.

Some poor buggers believed CL qualification was a possibility (not me) but todays stroll showed the staff don't think so.

Lot of comments about our lack of resources, tired players, etc which are all true but missing one vital element - the manager is exacerbating some of the problems by sticking to formations that are now regularly being countered and by persisting with players who are shattered / past it when Oviedo can't get on the pitch and Ross Barkley is out on loan.

Fellaini showed he should have been operating deeper from the start today, by prompting our first half mini-revival when he dropped back to escape the attentions of Phil Jones. Oviedo couldn't possibly have offered less than Phil Neville who was so terrified of being out-paced that he kept playing their forwards onside, and fresh legs and a creative ability have been needed since Christmas to save Ossie from having to labour through the full 90 minutes every game.

This wasn't a side bending over before a ball is kicked as you put it this was a side that wasn't good enough on the day. they didn't try to defend they tried to attack United but we were just not good enough today. I know you don't believe that the money issue has any relevance as you always say it is an excuse, but if we could have swapped Anichebe and Jelavic for Van Persie and Rooney then I think we would have won.

You see if you can afford world class players on most occasions there class will show through. Some of our players havent performed to their very best for a few weeks now, but because we don't have the resources of United, City,Chelsea we have to play the same players week in and week out. Do you still really believe that the money thing is a red herring.

Look at the bigger picture & judge us over the season as a whole. Any failure to qualify for Europe will be because we have drawn too many games against crap teams, and also because we failed to strengthen in January to kick on.

What happened today will have no bearing on where we finish, because United hardly ever drop points at home – there's hardly a team in the league that could confidently predict they would get something at Old Trafford.

Today was a disappointment, nothing more.

It just smacks of desperation trying to fenagle it into the league argument but I'll cut and paste this I know it'll come up another thousand times.

We weren't at the races today in attitude or desire saying otherwise is plain foolish if your argument is correct our run in will have us fighting relegation.

Utd were better. Not markedly better, just enough. And I never thought I'd end a sentence like this ever, but... end of!

Why did Jelavic not start I don't care if he's feeling down hes getting paid good money to score goals not to sulk on the bench, Anichebe is terrible and should only be broken out in an Emergency.

This I'm afraid is as far as our season goes as the clubs around us Tottenham, Arsenal, Liverpool and Swansea continue to improve and all bolstered their squads. We are slipping backwards whilst Kenwright rubs his greedy little hands.

Hang your heads in shame Kenwright and Moyes Leroy Fer has played for 90 mins over the last few weeks and today even getting the assist.

Man united have a team full of goal scorers. That's why they win matches:

Robin Van Persie
Rooney
Hernandez
Wellbeck
Nani
Ashley Young.

Everton:
Fellaini

It is not rocket science to work out why united are 20 points ahead of Everton.

That decision led to losing two points against Villa and yet his presence today was never going to be enough to make-up the difference (if anything he was a liability).

Utilising the pace of Oviedo would have been a much more attacking and imaginative move.

Now suddenly that same lot are rushing to explain how we could never hope to beat United in a month of Sundays.

The hypocrisy is breath-taking.

Oh, we lost at Old Trafford? It´s a disgrace right? After all, not many clubs lose there.

We didn´t lie down to die, we gave it a shot (at least in the first half) and failed. All of a sudden it seems like we´re off just as bad as we were in December 2012?

Honestly guys, sleep it off.

The second half performance was gutless, passionless and shameful and, yes, this is not a good United side. I fear that there are some Evertonians who will defend anything. Paul, do you really think we gave it a shot today?

Well at least it was only a point we dropped, as to expect anything else at OT, Emirates, Stamford Bridge and the other place is way above our pay grade. Let's be truthful we have 8 points more than at this stage last season and we have a positive goal difference of 6.

So a 7th place finish is fine and we've got a cup run to look forward to at least until next weekend.

After they scored, for about 20 minutes, I thought we looked the team most likely to score.

I thought we played alright in the first half, until the second goal.

Second half was shite....again.

It is just another example of the over-excitable 'counting-your-chickens' crowing that we are told we should all partake in, or be labelled as negative or glass-half full personalities, by the same people who are now rushing to portray today's mediocre performance as simply a reflection of the opposition's unassailable superiority.

After recent results, the match today was an opportunity to try something new and unpredictable with the balance of expectations against us anyway. Instead we simply got the predictable played out by players who are losing their edge.

Fuck me, we can't even laugh and take the piss out of them now without someone saying I told you so.

We have had people counting the weeks we have been above them, ignoring the fact that the close season doesn't actually count, and people predicting they were a spent force and bound to remain in our shadow with half a season still to play.

We all enjoy being ahead of them, some of us think it will only be mission accomplished if we are in that position after 38 games, and some of us think it is cold comfort indeed if that is our only accomplishment for this season.

I'm really worried now because I believe that we have seen the best of this Everton side and the only way is down now especially if Moyes abandons the sinking ship.

Funny we were able to beat the gattling gun back in August then, eh? How do you explain that away? Hibbert and Distin? They were the only other 'knives' we had in our side.

United had a bad spell at the start of the season mainly because of injuries but they have improved significantly while we have gone backwards since that great early season form. If they played full strength at Goodison now I'd back them to be at least a couple of goals better.

I'm going to give criticism now to Moyes and a player and I hope it doesn't breach my normal rules of not being negative for the sake of it. Heitinga was a disgrace to EPL football last night and that Moyes would play him over any other centre back at the club gives a lie to any claim that he is a great manager.

Jags was magnificent last night, Fellaini a frustrated imbecile. The rest did their best and played well in spells but we just aren't in the same league as United. Jelavic, Anichebe and Naismith are journeymen, good enough for run-of-the-mill EPL teams but nowhere near the quality needed for European football.

I think that we have reached our best potential this year and it is downhill now for this team and eventually EFC as an entity. In reality for me we peaked several months back and all of the draws are just a symptom of our decline now that we have good players out.

We were humiliated last night by the gulf between the two sides and I see further humiliation as Liverpool overtake us, get European football and beat us again at Anfield. We have a very hard run in now and I believe that we'll go down several places yet. The culmination? Moyes to go to a bigger club, Fellaini to leave, and EFC probably to carry on with its long-term decline.

This is crap.

One of the annoying things about TW is that when there are many legitimate criticisms to make of a performance, the default seems to just be the same tired and repetitive accusation of negative hoofball. It's such shit. And it makes the criticism so much less convincing.

United started quickly and pushed us back, because they're a good team. They made a breakthrough due to more sloppy and hesitant defending on our part.

We reacted well to the first goal, and played very well - building some good passing attacks and making some half chances - for most of the rest of the first half. We were definitely positive. We weren't able to get an equalizer; we continue to misplace passes in the final third, and United's tactical approach to Fellaini was spot on.

Got caught on the break right at the end of the half, and that completely knocked the stuffing out of us. Second half was definitely a repeat of some of the worse depressing at Old Trafford over the last 10-15 years; where we pass the ball around in a completely toothless way, never looking threatening, and United are happy to let us do that, while playing at near half pace themselves.

At no point in the game did we particularly resort to hoofball. Until the second goal went in we were reasonably attacking in our formation and approach.

Doesn't mean we weren't mediocre, that it was a pretty easy win for United, that we looked demotivated, that the quality of our passing was patchy at best, and that too many people played badly.

The commentators said exactly the same about Howard, that he had no shots to save in the first half. Each goalie was as busy as the other in the second and both made good saves.

Baines is good on the ground, but hasn't given a good cross or corner in months. Pienaar has gone to shit since he cut his hair. Osman, for some reason, still seems surprised when he hits his shot either too soft or off target. The fullbacks were to blame for the first goal as they played their forwards on after Jags and Johnny had lined up to put them off. Mirallas will be good again, but has been brought back in too early. Vellios obviously rooted Mrs Moyes. Oviedo may have been caught watching. Die Hammer must be laughing his arse off that eight months ago he was doing nothing and not getting paid for it, now he's getting paid for doing nothing. Apparently Moyes thought it was a good idea to bring in a "player for the future" with 3m that we couldn't find to buy an actual player. Who've I missed?

Moyes... I've banged my head on brick walls before, but never decided that it would be a good idea to do it again on deliberately. Other teams have figured out how to nullify our left? Oh, well, we wouldn't expect someone only on 4m a year to come up with an alternative game plan.

I agree completely, there was no bottling out and at times we played well. We simply were not good enough

Paul, Moyes earns his money for Everton not by winning cups or even beating top teams away. He easily justifies his money by enabling Everton to dine at the second table with virtually no net spending on players.

I can't forgive him over playing Heitinga last night after such woeful performances or over the Anfield disaster the other year but he does a lot right and we are what we are mainly because of him and his team.

What if we had it postponed then you would have moaned of our fixture pile up at the end of the season, the day these fuckers show respect for our cup competitions in this country maybe the day they deserve some respect.

Mirallas looked quite dangerous at times, and we didn't look too bad chasing the game one down... but you're spot on, the goal before the break killed the game stone dead.

The quality in the final third was really quite appalling, and Moyes reminded me of my champ man days with his changes. The second half felt like a wrestling PPV.

I went into the game feeling really positive, thought we'd get a draw if not win but then saw RVP & Rooney v Anichebe and the wind fell out of my sails. Didn't help that we played like we were eating a bowl of soup with a fork but there we go.

The sooner we relinquish ourselves from the shackles of Moyes, the better. I've defended him for long enough, but cannot anymore. I know people will point to the likes of Charlton who got restless under Curbishley and then got rid and look what happened - but this is different. Time for new blood, a man in charge who actually won something in his career. Somebody who is willing to try something bold and attacking. Even if that means a Di Canio, Poyet or some crazy foreigner with new ideas, so be it. I've had enough of this dross...

I wish I lived in the simplistic black and white worlds that some of you guys live in. Wake up and smell the coffee will you FFS; we can't compete with these teams now because we are a small club financially and our history unfortunately doesn't give us an advantage, in fact it is a bloody millstone around our necks.

Yes, and yes!

2011 it is. Years pass me by so quickly nowadays I just lose it.

And yes, I think we gave it an honest shot. In the first half we really tried to break them down. After a poor start most will have agreed we gave them a really tough time for most of the first half, without reverting to hoofball.

The commentators in Norway felt Everton were the best side in the first half, but United has that knack putting away their chances, we don`t.

The second half was poor, but I don`t think it came from lack of trying. United sat back a bit and led by the fantastic Vidic in defence, they are damn hard to break down. Their second goal gave them confidence, sapped ours. It was plain to see as the second half went ahead. The played that second half in the style of champions. We are at best the 4th best side in the league, on an off day we`re top 8. We`re a good side, but not world-class. Our squad is to threadbare, we can`t afford to shift a couple of playrs just because they are not fully fit/off form. That`s what separates us from the very best.

. Of course we struggle at Old Trafford. But, saying it was a disgrace and that we didn`t give it a go is just wrong.

Moyeses record Vs the old 4, somewhat woeful.

The Marketing etc 'seems' woeful

The Board's lack of personal investment, now that's more woefuler than all the other woefuls put together

I am going to Oldham on Saturday and can foresee a struggle, a dull game ( as was Bolton). Moyes will not change anything. He doesn't seem to be able to change things.

What saddened me yesterday was the lack of any real creativity and threat. Nice passing around at times but not really meaning anything.

Still too may passengers in the team, too many "OK" players and have been for years under Moyes.

So maybe I have to accept that with a team of mainly just "allright" players and an "OK" Manager its "OK" that we will finish around 7th or 8th.

Based on recent history, especially the gutless performance in the FA Cup Final to what everybody say was the poorest RS Team for years I, as much as I would love it to happen , just cannot see Moyes and his selections and tactics winning it.

Sad to say but in my opinion hostly true.

Of course, I am a mad Blue and will continue to go to every game.

Loyalty and history not current standards of play ensure my attendance. As I have stated many times for most of Moyes's tenure I have been overwhelmingly bored and continuously disappointed.

And, I think Everton are potentially looking at some poor years themselves coming up as they try and rebuild and regroup in what will probably be the post Moyes era.

The paucity of the displays for far too many of these games has been plain to see, yesterday was no different from dozens of previous displays that went before it.

However, I do think the original poster, Andy Crooks, will get his wish - as Moyes will go, personally I think he's already gone. It definately wont be Manu or Chelsea but he will be gone, along with Baines, Fellaini and probably Jags. The rest of team play to a level that Moyes drags out them and with Moyes currently being totally pissed and wanting to go himself - I think that was level of play we saw on the pitch at OT.

Bk will replace Moyes with a yes man, getting next to fuck all budget (you know those banks are owed sooooooooooo much money), instead buying used up shite players like Gazza who BK will still hope fill the seats at GP. Then we can all jump up and down when we score a goal against the RS once every three years. Happy fucking days.

Nope, from the chat I hear Moyes is gone. We can argue all day long what Moyes does for the team but you can't argue about his integrity. The man probably feels as used as a used thing can get.

Additionally, Moyes is not poor so if he can't fill any of the hot seats (for me I would say Arsenal looks good) then I wouldn't be surprised to see him fill one of footy media seats for somewhere like Sky - hey Lineker rakes in over £2M a year with more gray hairs than me.

"However, Pochettino undersold himself somewhat by claiming 'belief' was the key factor in Southampton's brilliant 3-1 victory over Man City. "Victories only come if you believe you can get them," said the manager. "Everyone here at Southampton has belief."

I know we have beaten all these teams at home before, but can you honestly say Moyes believes we can go to the likes of Anfield and win - by attacking them and not KITAHTKO football?

Or shall we just give them the points because they have a bigger transfer kitty?

Moyes has a good record at Everton, but I don't think the man himself has that something special that all great managers have, ultimate belief in their own methods and ability.

Maybe we should get a more attacking manager like Holloway who has won only 3 games in the last 16 rather than this negative manager Moyes who has lost 4 games in 30+ games.

I think the black and white approach you speak of is more evident in the "If Moyes goes we're ruined" brigade of Apologists. I'm ardent MOB, and I think the grey areas, of which Moyes doesn't operate, is where we've failed. As has been mentioned, this game was so important because we've drawn 12 fucking games, 10 of which we should have won, so I'll take five (because I know life isn't black and white).

People can quote the "experts" all they like and say we were the better team in the first half all they like. The fact of the matter is, at the start of the second half we were down 2-0, and we didn't come out firing. So, tell me, just what was said in the sheds at half time? Did SAF himself come into our dressing room and patronise our players? Did Moyes tell the boys that two less on our F/A is better than three or four? Or did Neville open his fucking mouth at his beloved Old Trafford and blow the wind out of everyone's sail?

Personally, I think all the evidence conclusively points to one of two mindsets ;

1. Mr. Moyes plays for a draw first & foremost.

2. He does not believe we should be challenging these teams because of resources, or they have better players etc.

Moyes is a good manager, & a good fit for Everton, but the numbers point to someone who will never take on the big boys.

Please answer this Ian, I am honestly curious, why would you compare Holloway to a manager who has had 10 years at one of the biggest clubs in English football, the unstinting backing of a clueless Chairman, with first team players earning £50-75k per week?

The match failed to excite We had a decent 20 minutes but once they went 2-0 up and put 8 men behind that was it. SAF was never going to allow a repeat of last seasons Everton comeback.

Apart from Jags and Howard no-one performed to a decent level. Baines and Valencia cancelled each other out. Ditto Fellaini and Jones. Pienaar and Osman were not physically up to it and Mirallis played without conviction. Big Vic was embarrassing, Neville was Neville and Gibson didn't defend. He looks useful when backing up the attack but his job is to protect the back four and I am still waiting for him to do it. For the first goal he was walking and viewing, 20 yards from the action. Pienaar and Osman had both passed him in a bid to help out. For the second goal he tried to hold off Raphael and Rooney but kept 2 or 3 yards away, prompting Ray Wilson to utter "Look....No pressure on the ball whatsoever. You can't do that with a high line. " Before the little right back sent RVP away Gibson went after him at a pace which made Heitinga look quick.

Davey Moyes has been at Everton for ten years; before he came, at this time of the year, we would be in the bottom 3 or 4 we would be looking at the fixtures wondering where are next point was coming from.

So, while I agree with a lot of the comments I think we should be grateful where we are. Without Davey Moyes, we would be playing in the Championship. Just look back at some of the Managers we have had: Lee, Walker, Bingham.... I could go on.

So look on the bright side: we could have Holloway or Big Sam as manager!

Yes, the likes of Sterling and Wisdom have had game-time this season. But by god haven't them two been found out? – and that goes for the likes of Shelvey, Suso etc. Ask any half-decent red what their honest opinion is of them and I'll know why they'll say.

The truth is they've spent big big money on the likes of Allen, Borini, and before them the likes of Downing and Henderson and where's it got them? – fucking nowhere. Obviously Sturridge has hit the ground running but time will tell with him.

Now I'm no lover of Moyes – far from it. But give him a fraction of that budget that's been spunked over there and I'll honestly guarantee Everton would be riding higher than 6th now, believe me.