Have to agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment. As far as I am concerned it a blight on the game. But this begs the question, 'why are Everton still doing it'.

Agreed

Totally agree Andy. If the refs started giving penalties for it, even before the corner/free kick is taken, then it would stop.
I only watch us so I've no idea how many penalties have been given for it this season, save the one against us at City.

If you noticed last night just before the fateful corner came in Mr. Dowd was having a word with Tim Howard which was ludicrous and obviously upset Tim's concentration, seeing as what had occurred on the previous corner when their GK just flew through the air hitting everything that was in his way. Sometimes the officials just seem to make it up as they go along. The only way to stop it is to say that any deliberate use of hands to manhandle or hold in the area is a straight red card, until the players are punished they will continue to do it. It has been like that all season and its getting worse although it was the 'elite' clubs who started it a few seasons age. Even Dixie would have struggled to score with the way defenders are getting away with all of this holding in the box.

What annoys me is that the only penalty I've seen given against it this season was Fellaini at City, then a couple of weeks later was the incident at Stoke where Fellaini head-butted Shawcross because of the manhandling he was receiving in the box (not that there is an excuse for his actions) I watched the Celtic game and couldn’t believe some of the stuff the Juve players got away with after being warned, definitely something that needs kicking out of the game ASAP!

Veiled excuse, move on Davey, you screwed up with team selection and substitutions!

Do you think one of the perceived big team waiting to hire you will allow your ineptitude for as long as Everton have, I think not!!!

I was amazed Jags scored once I saw the wrestlers grip the defender had on him, he literally couldn't move his arms away from his sides.

Yep Jags goal was comical. After he'd scored he ended up perfectly horitontal on the floor with the defender lying on top of him, arms still around him, hands stuck between the floor and Jags.

It's particularly bad when defenders don't even bother looking at the ball. They're watching the attacker and doing whatever it takes to stop them from moving. For the life of me I've no idea why penalties aren't given.

Interesting comment from the Juventus defender – who said that they have seen on videos just how much British teams are allowed to put the goalie off, and actually jump with him – and the Italians believe that this should be stopped, by hook or crook. They did not want to see Buffon blocked or jumped with.

Sorry, but I am struggling to see what the complaint is here.

Are we talking about having arms raised in the air (like their goalkeeper did), preventing the keeper / defenders from moving freely, or manhandling by wrapping arms around or by pulling shirts?

The first two may be annoying but they are far from being illegal under the rules of football. You can wave your arms about all you like and as long as you don't make contact with the ball it is not a foul. Similarly, you are allowed to stand your ground anywhere on the pitch (as long as you are not offside) and the opposition is obliged to go around you.

What you cannot do, and this is already clear in the rules, is move in such a way to deliberately block the free movement of an opponent. Similarly, manhandling of an opponent (from full-on bear-hug to sneaky fistful of shirt) is against the rules.

What we have these days, and I have written about this before, is a style of refereeing that lets a lot of transgressions go unpunished in the penalty area unless they directly influence an opportunity for an attempt on goal or the chance to save it. Fellaini got punished because Dzeko would probably have got to the cross if he hadn't been impeded, and Howard got nothing, despite making the fact he was blocked obvious, because he was near post and the ball actually went to the back post.

There are so many offences committed at each corner now that it has become impossible to decide which one deserves to be punished the most, so the refs are just concentrating on those they consider critical. That means it is now worthwhile committing such offences as it has become a lottery which ones will be penalised.

It is a situation that should have been treated with a zero tolerance a long time ago to stop it from getting to the current situation. Professional players and managers are complicit for not having taken the referees to task about the situation before now, enjoying getting away with things and only complaining when the decision goes against them.

Everyone looks to the professional game as the epitome of standards, including amateur referees, so it is no surprise that similar tactics are now becoming the norm at grass-roots level.

People thought it was a big joke when Jaggs was rugby tackled to the ground only because he got the goal, Jaggs was laughing himself but it wasnt funny in the slightest. What if he didnt score, would we have got the penalty? If so, the player still should have been booked even though we got the goal. I'm not sure we would have got the penalty anyway, it seemed it was no holds barred, anything goes free for all.

i think in the next game all our player should start throwing their arms in the air for corners just to prove a point. whether its in the rules or not its not good sportsmanship.Infact it could be argued its dangerous play throwing elbows and hands about like theri keeper. The corner before there equaliser was a batent foul by their keeper.

Anyway Tim and Distin should have done much better in the situation, they were only in the Echo last week talking about their training with MMA fighters. I want to see Distin body slam Smith and Tim should have took their keeper head off after the warning he got from the first foul.

It's up to the authorities to advise refs and for refs to apply the rules.

While they allow it, it's in the game. Someone should have been right up against Smith - giving a 6ft 6in forward a run at the ball is dumb no matter what the rules are.

I have wondered for a long time why defenders who 'obstruct' attacking players from playing the ball to allow it to run out of play while making no attempt to play the ball themselves at all are no guilty of foul play. It is clearly not legal and not in the 'spirit ' of fair play. This and the six-yard box 'wrestling arena' really spoils games.

I'd like to see what happens if the attacking side was not allowed into the goal area at free kicks and corners until after the ball is kicked.

@396 exactly.

For me it is a total turn off when I see that happened. Have a 4th official whose job it it to watch for it at corners and set plays. Give penalties for any infringement of this kind and it will soon stop.

Usually the ref gives a foul to the defenders when there is minimal contact.
I cannot believe that the goalkeeper got away with his blatant obstruction.
It was just like a rugby lineout.

Dowd would never allow the goal to stand if it was premier league match.
Can you imagine Fergie if his team conceded a goal in that way and it was allowed to stand.

I have no problem with somebody standing still to block the runner as long as they are facing the ball. This new tactic which Stoke get away with every week of standing face to face, with your back to the ball is a blatant foul, especially as it is usually backed up with some man handling and shirt pulling once the set piece is in the air. It is a penalty and refusal to give one by the referee is a failure.

It may be of help if the assistant (from the opposite end from where the corner is taken) is allowed to be closer to the penalty area to watch contentious issues. Such as mud wrestling as a corner kick is taken. But a few penalties awarded would put a stop to this nonsense.

Peter (419); that is a good point- I recall Pat Nevin complaining about this - the only time I have seen a pundit focus on this practice.

Agree wholeheartedly with this post.

The amount of clutching, grabbing, wrestling, et al is of epidemic proportions and it needs to stop. How many times do you see a defender wrap his arms around the opposition players waist?

Referees seem to lack the fortitude to make these big calls against defenders which is criminal. Unless of course it's against Fellaini...

Agree wholeheartedly with this post.

The amount of clutching, grabbing, wrestling, et al is of epidemic proportions and it needs to stop. How many times do you see a defender wrap his arms around the opposition players waist?

Referees seem to lack the fortitude to make these big calls against defenders which is criminal. Unless of course it's against Fellaini...

Simple approach, give retrospective yellow cards to every player caught holding during the game. Wouldn't actually take that long because the panel would only need to review corners and free kicks. Even limiting it to one card per game imagine how many players would be suspended for the sixth game of the season

I thought any obstruction of the goalkeeper is a foul? if you stop him jumping or coming out, is that not a foul?

Players actually come right into the opposition, arms out wide, palms outstretched, with a look of "I'm not touching him" — but quite clearly they are!
It's ugly non-football, reminiscent of Stoke.

It still really pisses me off that we got done for this against City, and nearly every fucker that has done it since, and done it so much more obviously and aggresively have got away with it!

It has gone beyond a joke. The handling of Jags when he scored was the most rediculous thing I've ever seen on a football pitch (aside from Brett Angel).

Those officials behind the goal line (is it in the Champions League only?) need to be employed to nip this in the bud. Award penalties, dish out cards until the muppets just get on with playing football properly.

"Law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct

"A player who intentionally commits any of the following nine offenses:

(a) ...
(b) ...
(c) jumps at an opponent;
(d) charges an opponent in a violent or dangerous manner;
(e) charges an opponent from behind unless the latter is obstructing;
(f) ...
(g) holds an opponent;
(h) pushes an opponent;
(i) ...

shall be penalized by the award of a DFK to be taken by the opposing team from the place where the offense occurred, unless the offense is committed by a player in his opponents' goal-area, in which case the free-kick shall be taken from any point within the goal-area."

Well, that's lots of reason to disallow Oldham's ridiculous second goal. It's hard to see how any competent, well drilled and wide-awake defence can "defend" against a corner of the sort that led to the goal. How, legitimately, within the rules could a team defend that?!

And their keeper, leaping with his arms up, wafting at the ball, with no care as to who or what he would collide with... is that not 'unsportsmanlike conduct' worthy of a yellow card?

The stupid commentary team (I think the culprit was Gareth Southgate) said something along the lines of 'that goal would never stand in a league game, but it's the romance of the cup isn't it!'. FFS.

And their first goal was off-side as well.

All I can add is imagine the backlash if that had been the winning goal and we had got knocked out on Saturday. Remember the stick - older Blues will - that Andy Gray got for jumping up against Sherwood at Wembley, my how times have changed.

Refreee Dowd in my opinion was caught up in the whole lower league against PL cup frenzy, and the ITV commentary team were pandering to the legions of RS viewers and advertisers hoping that Oldham would score. The camera kept switching to Paul Dikov hoping to catch his celebration if Oldham scored.

Harry Catterick was right Football and Television don't mix well.

The most stupid example of this that really annoyed me was in the recent Swansea game (I think?) when Naismith had his own arms in front of him to prove he wasnt holding the defender behind him who was wrapping his arms around Naismith and barging him away from the goal line. The referee blew his whistle and went and had a word with Naismith!! When play resumed the defender did exactly the same again, Naismith went down, and nothing....

I too see this every week at junior football and when I question it the refs tell me its a contact sport! Opposition coaches tell their defenders to do it, "like they do on the telly"

To me, it's down to referees lack of bottle.

OK, I agree with pretty well everything posted on this subject. Why don't we all write a polite – possibly even impolite – letter to the FA and through other fan websites invite them to do likewise. Apart from the Stoke fans, I can't see anyone else disagreeing to that.

If we don't register a complaint – and this is a legitimate one – it will not be addressed by the people who make the rules. Are we up for it? Well I am and I'll let you know what reply I receive... here's hoping!

Good post and I agree with almost all that's been said – and whilst we are on rules, can someone please give a definitive ruling on offside?

I ask as I firmly believe Oldham's first goal was offside, however, a reporter in the Sunday Times said he was deemed on side as his trailing foot was level with our last defender! However, I remember on more than one occasion the complete opposite argument being used to deny us a goal as a 'body part capable of scoring' was beyond the last defender! Which way is it? And why can't the commentators and pundits get it right?

On Saturday we had Southgate agreeing it was offside but Dixon saying it's a game of opinions and in his opinion he wasn't – surely offside should be a matter of fact rather than opinion – it often happens that the assistant and or referees opinion is wrong but whether or not someone is actually and correctly assessed as offside is a matter of fact?

PS If you want a comparison of when such a goal, as their equaliser, is disallowed look no further than Big Dunc and Villareal!

Yep sick of it. We never get the rub of the green

Further to my earlier post, I am just off down the road to mail that letter of complaint to the FA with a copy to the Premier League. I'll keep you all updated !

Jeff, I think Oldham's first goal was too close to call and linesmen are instructed to favour the attacking team so I don't have a problem with the goal (apart from our rubbish defending!).

On offsides in general, I much prefer the old rule when offside was given if any player from the attacking team was in an offside position when a team-mate played a forward pass. It is, after all, a team game, and this "inactive" nonsense is being employed as a tactic. Thus no ambiguity, no opinions pertaining to intent; mistakes would still be made, but the rule would be much clearer.

The trouble is the refs are not consistent. Why on earth we have a 4th official is beyond me as the ref never takes any notice of him anyway. Some refs allow more than others and it seems to be there are no rules.

As far as I'm concerned, if a goalkeeper or anyone else for that matter is allowed to jump with their arms above their head, then the wall that is set up when freekicks are taken must be allowed to do the same!! So long as it doesn't strike an arm, what's the difference?

The defending goalkeeper must at least be able to see the ball coming over from a corner and obstruction on him is the same as obstruction on any other player. Normally refs give the advantage to the defenders in scrimmaging at corners, but Mr Dowd certainly did not, he gave a big advantage to the Oldham goalkeeper who had no chance of reaching the ball but made sure that Howard could not.
THAT IS OBSTRUCTION!!!!

The standard of English refereeing is appalling and has been for many years.

The reason the art of tackling has disappeared is because everyone is too concerned with holding and obstructing the attacker. Peter at #419 I agree. How many times have we seen a defender obstructing a forward when ushering the ball away for a goal kick accompanied by some clueless TV pundit praising the ' marvellous' defending!

Ian raised a good point about "what if Jags had not scored the goal?" For me, it should have been a red card even though the goal was scored.

Andy, I agree with you, although I do think semi-contact in football is good (Yak vs Redshite, anyone?), but until the G14 start slipping because of this style of play, UEFA/FIFA will do nothing about it.

This type of behaviour to creeping into everyday life. I was at Asda, in the bread aisle, hoping to get the last wholemeal sliced, when an old lady blatantly cut me up with her trolley. No attempt to go for the loaf. Her friend had a clear unobstructed path to 'my' loaf. It was sickening, when are Fifa going to act???

The pic on the Daily Mail Graham Poll article (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2280166/Graham-Poll-Everton-deserve-round-FA-Cup-foul-Oldhams-Lee-Croft.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490) shows that their goalie is not causing an obstruction to Howard.

It clearly shows that Howard is impeded by their No.6 and what's worse is that the ref was in an unobstructed position to see it yet didn't award a foul.

Sam Green 893

Asda use video survelance, which means if you lodge an appeal, they will ultimately use their loaf and view the event. If you are lucky, the operator will have picked it up and you may get a close up of the action, or even more than one camera angle, enabling them to make a decision retrospectively. They could even give them both a red card for serious foul play, but don't expect them to call it ungentlemanly conduct as that would raise a whole batch of new issues.