Intriguing stuff, I'd love to see what their derby records are like too, seems to be that if you've played for Everton you understand what it means to the supporters.

From Joe Royle's team there would have been one stand-out candidate in my opinion who was bound to go and manage us at some point; he supported Everton, played for us, that person was the great late Gary Speed, a player and a manager I respected greatly. Sadly we'll never know.

Catterick, Kendall & Royle were also all English - no wonder Moyes hasn't won anything!

I agree Declan, Gary Speed's sad demise was a great loss to football. Imo he would have been a strong candidate to succeed Moyes, particularly if it was felt an Everton 'link' was a pre-requisite for the job.

If Moyes goes, my money's on David Jones,

My Dad says Bernie Wright is looking for a club to manage having left Mile Oak Rovers. Didn't he play under Catterick?

Declan #698 – a great shout, also seeing as I think Gary would've set his teams up to play some great football too, but as you rightly say we will sadly never know. May he rest in peace.

On a different tack we've also got Bilic as a candidate: played under Kendall Mk III, has made some waves already in management....

Meaningless statistics. No ginger-haired manger ever won anything with Everton either I bet.

The fact that only three managers have won trophies for Everton suggests that there is a deeper underlying problem than just Moyes.

What concerns me about this is that we've only won 8 trophies since WWII.

Totally unrelated but...City in the FA Cup Final?
Who else would have fancied us for a crack at that! ;-)

Shane #713 - you're right, they are meaningless statistics but you could probably draw some conclusions from them.

Maybe that we either bred, attracted, or kept winners in the past but have lost that tradition? Maybe if you've won at Everton in the past you know what you need to do to do it again, but it's so long now we just know how to aim for 4th. Maybe that we no longer attract the calibre of person that would even know how to win with Everton. Maybe, simple confirmation that the world has changed.

Another meaningless statistic is I think we are currently on our longest trophyless streak in our 135 year history (if you discount the 5 years of WWII), aligned with the longest spell we've gone unmanaged by someone who's played for the club.

I'm not suggesting we make Franny Jeffers manager, I'm suggesting we've lost the way of winners, a way we developed and promoted as a club.

Mike Green thanks for the research I should have done it myself - but it has been a busy weekend - I think there are two points running through this thread - because we have never really been a favourite of the nation as a whole and because for large periods of the last 50 years we have played second fiddle to the national treasures who we happen to live next door to we are not seen from the outside as a major club who challenge for honours on a regular basis. Even last night it was how good is it to be above the Dark Side, rather than do you really believe you can make CL. This situation has been made worse since the advent of the PL and our own failings on and off the pitch. Arsenal who not so long ago we could rightly claim to be similar in size and stature to are now seen as a very much bigger club than Everton again given recent history rightfully so.

This attitude then permeates down to the people who run the club, managers and players in particular, most of the people now involved have no idea what it's like to run out at Goodison to play in an Everton side aiming to win trophies and so they see what they are doing as being successful in its own right. You only have to look at the broo-ha-ha that takes place if our loveable neighbours fall into the lower half of the table there is a massive hue and cry and everyone involved with them demand that the situation is sorted out and quickly.

As someone said earlier it does raise questions about what we have been doing for the past 50 years and especially the last 20, we have become a club of also rans who can give as good as they get on any given day but over the long term are unlikely to be challenging for honours. That for a lot of our fan-base is hard to swallow, but when you look at the facts of the matter that is exactly what we have become. I think many fans probably invested too much expectation in the arrival of David Moyes and perhaps hoping he would do for us what another guy from PNE did for the other lot, given the different financial circumstances surrounding the game now compared to when he did it, that was too great an ask even for the most talented of managers.

Where does that leave us and how do we address it? It seems to me we''ll just have to grin and bear our way through the coming years and hope someone, somehow can transform us into what we used to be, unfortunately as each year passes the chances of that happening become ever more slim, but as always we live in hope.

And none of the managers except Moyes have managed in the modern era Premier League. The Premier League is run by money today and calling it a competition is almost a lie.

I wish this Financial Fair Play rule would change everything and put all teams on a near-level playing field. But I fear the big clubs will get around Financial Fair Play.

I was watching Brad Pitt in Moneyball the other day. Brad Pitt is David Moyes. That film is about Everton. Watch Moneyball and you will have more understanding on what David Moyes is dealing with.

Dick I watched it the other day and there's no director of football at Everton which would be the equivalent of the Brad Pitt Gen Mgr role.

I'd suggest Moyes was "Art Howe" the belligerent manager incapable of innovative thought and happy to stick with the same old same old.

Daniel Amokachi manages Al-Markhiya Sports Club in Qatar and would be a coup because he constantly has them finish in the top 6. The fact the division is made up of 6 teams isn't really the issue, more that it's Qatar's 2nd division...

His substitutions would be unorthodox to say the least..,

I think the problem with a Blues legend in charge would be that if he fails, that would be the thing we would remember him by. I think we should have Bilic, if we are looking for an ex Blue as he did well as Croatia boss and he'd want to manage at the highest level.

Good shout Ross, but he is not well liked by some of our fans because he was paid for so long whilst injured!

Winning a trophy is a great, great occasion, one that goes down into club and family folklore. There is no doubt that Howard Kendall and Joe Royle understood this; I don't think David Moyes does.

He is a company man, a good one, but one who would sooner finish a few places higher in the league. [I don't know this for a fact, I'm just going going on the evidence.]

Cliff Britton was manager in 1954 when we won promotion back to the First Division. We failed to become Division 2 champions by 0.031 of a goal and we were promoted as runners up, so no trophy - but it should still count into the theory. Cliff Britton was of course an Everton player in the 1930s. I have always preferred former players as managers as a matter of fact. I would take Dave Watson as Everton manager, for example, over almost anyone managing a team below us in the Premier League.

This is all a load of rubbish, If Mourinho took over next year and was given £100m we'd win something. Give David Moyes £100m he'd win something, probably.

I'm neither a Moyes fan nor a hater but I think the amount of Moyes bashing that goes on here is ridiculous. We'll never actually know if he's a good manager unless he is given a season of good money to spend without having to sell. And, to be honest, I'd rather trust Moyes with our money than someone like Lennon.

Hey Nick,

I figure Amokachi would be perfect, knows a few Qatari billionaires and could turn Victor into the new, well, Daniel Amokachi......

That aside, there is always super-sub McCall at Motherwell, surely better than another old firm "winner". What's it take to win a title at Celtic, anyway, I'm sure Moyes could do that too.

"Winning a trophy is a great, great occasion, one that goes down into club and family folklore. There is no doubt that Howard Kendall and Joe Royle understood this; I don't think David Moyes does." - Absolute rubbish Peter, what evidence are you going to concoct for Moyes not wanting to win a trophy and only wanting to finish high up in the league?

Nowadays not many go for the ex player — club loyalty doesn't particularly mean anything anymore. Our two great eras came when it did mean something.

Agree Gary Speed would have been a candidate for a top job. But it wouldn't have been us.

Stuart #863 - you're right, it is all a load of rubbish.

There's an argument to say that our success in the past had more to do with financial clout than continuity any way.

However, the two most successful footballing trophy winning "dynasties" there's been in English football are Liverpool and Man Utd.

I think most people would put the Man Utd story mainly down to Ferguson and continuity, and the Liverpool story down to Shankly and then the "Boot Room" tradition that followed on from it rather than money as such. How much have they won since that tradition fizzled out, and how much money have they thrown at it over the years? It'll also be interesting to see how Man Utd fare once Fergusons gone.

Abramovich has thrown bucketloads of money at Chelsea and got a decent return in silverware — but my guess is he feels short-changed and it took the temporary appointment of a former player to deliver the Champions League anyway.

Spurs have spent millions and are only just getting their act together and would you put your house on Man City winning the league next season?

So, yes, it is a load of old rubbish but if you look at real success at clubs it usually comes where the prime movers have the best interest of the football club at heart, rather than the business.

Mike ,
very good pont that I totally agree with.

Characters win things and influence others albeit when Ferguson has gone I doubt we will see another because all the power is in the boardrooms these days and they will not allow another Clough, Shankly or Ferguson although I could be proved wrong if Mourhino comes back to Chelsea.

Stuart Gray @ 863

Stuart, good points, and if Mourihno took over and you gave him fuck all I guarantee he'd win fuck all as well.

Ray #897

Money is a massive factor and I'm playing devils advocate as much as anything here, but did Mourinho have stacks of money at Porto?

And how come the only silverware Man City are still in for is the FA Cup having been dumped out of the Champions League, then the Europa Cup and now trail Man Utd in the League by 15 points? And how did we manage to beat them 2-0 a few weeks ago......?

Tony#877 - the team he put out against Leeds earlier this season.

I think we are too pessimistic in our view that money exactly equals league position. Everton's team this season could, with better finishing and a little luck , be up with City at least. We have missed chances that do not require a £25 million striker to score. The Jelavic of last season could have made the difference. It can and will be done.

We have underachieved this season and that is not a criticism of David Moyes. He has built a good squad on the cheap and that, rather than his coaching is what I think he excels at. We have been desperately unlucky at times and we are not far away.

"No ginger-haired manger ever won anything with Everton either I bet."
you'd lose Shane - Joe Royle was a ginger.

Underachieved?!!

Jesus wept.

At the time you're writing this there is no reason to believe that we will not finish in the top 4, maybe even 3rd, this season, ahead of last seasons Champions League winners and teams who've thrown money around for years to build their squads and you think we will be UNDER achieving?

Figures released today have us down as having the 10th highest wage bill and we are currently in the top 6 and looking up and you think we've UNDER achieved?

Unbelievable.

It's not rocket science, money doesn't always equal success but no money equals no success. You know, like being Catholic doesn't mean you will be the Pope but not being Catholic does mean you won't.

We've missed chances yes, but do you think all the other teams have put the ball in the net every time they've had a chance?

Kevin Sheedy's our youth coach now.

Could bring him up as manager.