Given the debts that Barca rack up (only ameliorated by their ability to attract outside money), I'd argue if even Barca were the "right" way to do things.

Bayern's dominance of the Bundesliga this year has come, somewhat, out of the blue (certainly the total number of points they've racked up and their record away from home). Whether it's a sea-change in the competiveness of the Bundesliga or not, I guess only time will tell.

The best teams generally earn the most money, reinvest it and strengthen their team to make them harder to beat. That's always been the case. But, of the leagues listed above, I think only Spain and England haven't had a "suprise" winner in the last decade. And of those, I think England is the least competitive of the lot. That, for me, is the worrying thing.

Talking about money, I went for a quick pint yesterday afternoon and the landlord in my local buys in a few papers for the customers to read. Unfortunately, only the Daily Star was available on the bar (yes I know!)

Anyway, there was a story in the paper about a group of Evertonians who had written to Paul McCartney asking him to buy the club as the preferred option to another prospective buyer reported to be some East European consortium.

Does anybody know anything about this (not so much the McCartney bit as I imagine that's a non-starter!) ?

As far as I'm aware it's not been reported anywhere else.

No-one can dispute the correlation between money and ongoing success. There is the odd time that a club will do well and cause an upset of some sort, like when we finished 4th.

People tend to cite Arsenal as a club regularly playing Champion's League football who don't spend big, which is a fallacy. Arsenal's wage bill for 2011/12 was £144M, the 4th highest in the prem. Comparatively, Spurs was only £93M and Everton's around the median at £62M.

Under Moyes, Everton's combined transfer and wage spend has consistently been the 10th highest or lower, with few exceptions (I include a link at the end of this comment).

Whoever comes in has a tough task. There is huge expectation on Everton, personally I consider the expectation slightly unfair as we don't have the finances to compete with the richest 5 or 6 clubs for top players. I know that a lot of people disagree and feel that Moyes should have taken us further with what he had. There have been notable moments where we dropped points against poor sides, where had we won we would have been top 4. Could someone have done better that Moyes? Of course they could, but I feel that the probability of that happening is low. I really think he's done a great job at Everton and feel that his departure is a huge loss to the club. I hope I'm wrong.

What is sure is that the new boss will need to keep us fighting for European football and whilst doing so, will need to refresh an aging squad with little money and plenty of players hitting, or past, the 30 mark. It's a big ask and it's thumb out of bum time for the board.

Oops, here's the link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/9514149/Graphic-Premier-League-transfer-and-wage-spending-from-the-200001-season-to-201112.html

Dave Roberts 092 - I don't get this takeover rumour. It's Oleg Bakhmatyuk who was linked on 1st April so I assumed it was an April fools joke.

It shows that there has been a move away from huge transfers to huge wages. Transfers distribute money between the clubs and keep it in the game, whereas wages disappear into the players pockets. If this trend continues only a very few clubs will be able to compete - not that there are a vast number of clubs competing now.. Somehow Everton have managed to spend a large proportion of their income on wages and that is still not enough to really compete, with little chance of increasing our income, we can only go backwards if this trend continues.

What Everton have to somehow do is lower the proportion spent on wages and remain competitive enough to compete for a top 10 place, but more likely over time we are going to struggle to do that and can look forward to mid-table obscurity in the long-term. This would have been the case whoever was in charge, so it is important that the new person is one who can develop youth and get 'cheaper' players to perform at a level which exceeds their wages.

Clubs like Everton can no longer afford the luxury of having squad players who add little to the team and are only a drain on our limited resources. So a smaller pool of players seems like the natural result of the excessive wages players now earn, which means that the richer clubs will have bigger squads to cope with the demands of the modern game.

It all points to a European super league being formed in the not too distant future and the vast majority of clubs will be left behind to compete in their own domestic leagues,

Thank you Dan for putting a fresh thread up for debate!

What do I want / expect from the new manager? In order:

Finish top half and challenge for European places

Win FA or League Cup

Beat Liverpool home and away

Do all of the above playing attractive, attacking football

Develop youth

If we are the tenth highest spenders with the right manager I think all of the above are achievable, realistic targets. I'd love to say win the league but for now these will do....

The takeover rumour was apparently an April 1st joke, but the online petition for Macca to 'save Everton' from these Ukrainians(?) is less clear as to whether it's a continuation of the joke or evidence of some folks gullibility.

Many of you youngsters may never even have heard the words "Merseyside Millionaires" - but that was us in the sixties when John Moores bankrolled us.

The figures were tiny by comparison with what Sheik Mansoor (spelling?) has thrown at Citeh; but everything is relative.

We had our day, those of us who lived through it thought it was our God given right at the time and it's only now that I realise how jealous our rivals were.

I even remember a headline in the 'Daily Express' (even then, very much pro Manure) after we'd signed Tony Kay which said "They'll Have to Play Themselves Soon".

It's all about progress. If we are moving forward, then everyone is happy.

David Moyes managed to move us forward for most of the time he was here but we couldn't really expect any more. I will not expect the new manager to progress us any further.
What I would have expected though, is that in thirteen years of being in control of the club, the current owners would have made progress in a financial sense. Unfortunately for us, Moyes and the new manager,the total and utter opposite has happened.
The current people attempting to run the club are simply not qualified to do so.

Ken #101 I think you should clarify your point. John Moores under-wrote much of Everton's transfer business, but the club itself was run as profitable operation per se (hence taking the opportunity to cash in on Alan Ball). One could argue that it continued in that vein for some time (Lineker etc.).

Sir John certainly wasn't pouring millions into the club, then converting to equity, as is the modern vogue.

This current board isn't willing or able to under-write anything, instead having to bring in 3rd party loans on terms that remain a mystery.

An obvious thing to say but it will depend to some degree on how much disruption is caused by having a new manager. He may want to change the squad around, he may want to implement new tactics and styles, he may look for a lump of cash from the Board for summer transfers. All of this will impact on our start to the season and how well we do.

The Board may look to do things on the cheap. Part of the selection process for a new manager may be what they think a new manager would ask for in terms of financial backing. You would hope that their own sense of self preservation will kick in enough so that a decent manager and or a proper summer transfer fund will be made available.

Its not the money per se but the way the CL positions in our league block competition.

The best players in the world know who NOT to sign for when desiring CL football.

The PL have given a priority to the few to play in Europe each year over the competitive aspect of the domestic championship.

I do believe that to remain the richest league in the world they require the teams who find the most support in Asia remain at the top. And to do so they would never contemplate giving CL football to cup winners and have a play-off from 2nd to 5th... or even lower depending on who won the cups.

This would mean clubs wouldn't budget with CL in mind, playing talent would be dispersed more evenly and the money and draw would go to different teams.

You can't dictate the PL because the few keep qualifying in the top 4... so just imagine if Wigan and Swansea got all the money and kudos for qualifying this season. We would have just missed out on the play-offs though... dam you Moyes!

Nick that's certainly a good point well made, remember when there were up to seven or eight clubs qualifying for Europe. When you also factor in the ridiculous nature of the Europa League which actually 'punishes' the smaller clubs - as Wigan and Swansea will find out next season - rather than reward them it all points to what you outline.

I do believe that if we had boasted a striker worth the name this season,we would have thwarted the `money boys` by claiming a CL spot. Alternatively another 20 goals from elsewhere would have done it.
In this connection had Mitu been here instead of at Swansea,he wouldn`t have broken the bank or our wage structure so I guess talent spotting/bargain hunting has all to do with it.
The papers are awash with stories that Moyes will return here for Felli,Baines and now Jagielka but I cannot see him being allowed to turn `the great Man U `into lowly Everton`.But if he tries it,money will talk.It always does!

Matt #104

Wrap it up any way you think fit; in my opinion what Citeh are now is what we were in the 60's...and having lived through it, I feel privilaged to have been there.

I accept that, in financial terms, there are real and significant differences in the way the funding was/is achieved; but a rose by any other name...

And don't get me started on "the opportunity to cash in on Alan Ball".

Spot on Nick. The EPL is not a level playing field. Sky's ridiculous OTT following of Man Utd is living proof of that. We have to put up with live coverage of testimonials, trophy parades and have even had bizarre situations in the past were they have cameras trained on David Beckham during a pre match warm up waiting for when he removes his wooly hat to reveal his new hairdo. If Moyes has a bad season next year then you can bet Sky will be running all sorts of 'rumours' to get him sacked before he damages their status quo.

This little club is by no means exclusive to Man Utd as Arsenal Chelsea and Liverpool have been members for years and City and Spurs are the latest recruits and even Newcatle get way more coverage compared to others. I have had countless arguments at work with people who live for the Sky generation, even one guy who claimed to support Man Utd and Arsenal on how football is not better than it was 25 years ago and all this hype and ultra celebrity bullshit is killing it off slowly but they can't see byond Becks, Stevir G, Lamps and JT of this world.

Didn't the supporters of the non elite in Portugal rebel a couple of years ago and have a mass cancellation of subscriptions to their equivalents of Sky Sports, maybe we need the same here to level the playing field a little bit. Won't happen though, too many people believe the bullshit

Andrew, I agree. Its galling enough to have CL and TV money distorting the competition. It worse that the media at large treat football like an ongoing celebrity reality show. The scrutiny and attention for the money clubs is shamefull and its ball achingly irritating to hear so many half wit pundits just towing the line.

Id love us to mount a challenge, become a real contender, and then give the media no more attention than they give us now. Tell em all to shove it and just carry on without the hype and bullshit.

It's a crying shame that football has gone so far down this road. The list of people and institutions to blame for this includes everyone involved in the governance and promotion of the beautiful game so it's quite obviously been done by design. Some managers such as DM, Martinez, Big Sam at Bolton find a way around this problem but their talents and the time allowed them will only ever take them so far before they head butt the safety-glass ceiling.

It's almost irrelevant what we do on the pitch now because we will never compete for the top prizes unless we compete off it.

Clubs like Man Utd and Barcelona have great youth development statistics because they can cherry pick the best young talent because they buy these kids footballing heros.

Matt have to agree and expand it further by asking those who haven't seen the Golden Vision to hear it explained by Sir John from his own lips about the investment into infrastructure getting bums on seats was a sound one with good returns, he'd spin in his grave at the shenanigans and lack of acumen the current board have shown.

I want the manager to have guts and be a visionary and try and play attacking football.

I want him to buy a quality striker, not be scared to drop favourites, sell top stars and replace them with cheaper replacements if he believes better for the club and/or team. Most importantly, I want him to play an entertaining style of football that becomes synonymous with us and want this to be developed throughout whole club from bottom to top. I want Martinez

Money obviously can make a difference but the likes of Dortmund and Montpelier in recent seasons have shown that it is not the be-all and end-all. At the other end, the likes of QPR have proved the same as well....

Also re the English league, I don't think you can underestimate the influence that SAF had on Man Utd. This is not a Moyes bash before the usual suspects come in; however, I cannot see Man Utd being clear winners of the league next season. They will still have top players but have definitely lost something with SAF stepping down (admittedly he's only going upstairs so can still influence things, just not from the touchline etc).

Here's hoping anyway because the league title race this year was pathetic, with one of the worst Man Utd teams in recent times barely having to get out of second gear to win. The likes of Chelsea, Man City and Arsenal really should have provided more competition.

If we had somehow managed to get into the CL for next season, we would all have been delighted and would have been drooling at the mouth at the thought of all the extra cash. At the end of next season, would any of you have handed the cash back, complaining about how it isn't being shared out equally? Would any of you have said poor Wigan, they never get a look in, let's give them 5m quid?

No, neither would I. We would have been delighted with the extra media attention, with the extra coverage of league games on Sky, with the extra gate receipts, the chance to renegotiate sponsorship deals and so on. The CL gravy train is wonderful when you are on it, shit when you're not. Once we get on it, there is no looking back, and everyone else can get fucked.

We can complain all we like about uneven playing fields and glass ceilings. Football is not a communist paradise. Investment and your club's finances now dictate most things and while football remains recession proof, that is not going to chance.

I know one thing Manchester United at home next season will be a full house even if played at 2am in the morning to please the worldwide audience.

What will we look for first when the fixtures come out Utd or the kopites.?

With all the Fergie goings on last week, one TV programme quoted that one in ten people on this planet support Man Utd.

We are on 63 points having drawn 15 matches, with a top class striker they could of been 15 wins and an extra 30 points, giving us not only Champions League but the Premier League as well.

Money is certainly the game.

Ken #117, as Matt said, Moores did not pour millions down a bottomless pit.

The Club borrowed the money from the banks and paid it back. The banks were willing to make the loans safe in the knowledge that they would get their money back.

Completely different from the Mansoor and Abrahmovic approach to football financing.

I agree we wouldn't be complaining about the money received if we had have got into it, but the problem is far greater than just qualifying or even qualifying for a few seasons. if some club like us or Villareal or anyone outside of the g24 or whatever they're called nowadays is seen as a challenger they are brought down to size pretty damn quick, either by having their team dismantled as is the case with Dortmund - who are not really a small club - or have their manager poached or taken, which I think is the case with Villareal but I'm sure you get my drift.

These guys at Munich, Manchester, Paris and Madrid don't welcome competition they are all about preventing it and chewing up anybody that stands in their way. Like the regulators who were supposed to keep an eye on the banks, institutions which are supposed to govern the game and ensure a level of fairness are toothless and organisations like Uefa and the FA are incapable of preventing the mega clubs doing as they wish - even if they truly had a mind to, they are nodding dogs to their paymasters and the TV companies own the game and they will decide what is sexy and what is not.

Capitalism has gone global and so has football, it is an out of control juggernaut and it will continue to demolish everything in its way until it eventually crashes leaving everyone asking I wonder why somebody didn't do something to prevent it happening. TV companies will nod in agreement that more should have been done and it will move on to the next big attraction.

There is no point in appealing to Green or Grantchester to delve into their pockets, because they are not interested. BK, well, what's to say?
He is a complete buffoon, and we are relying on this joke to appoint the right manager? It is laughable.

My criteria:
Do what our ex manager didn't have the bottle to do.

Derek # 183, I recall someone in an article last year saying that Jelavic wa the best striker we have had in 25 years. Hyperbole, no doubt, but frankly, it didn't need a £30 million striker to score some of the chances he missed. I'd have knocked a couple of them in.

For some reason his confidence was shot and he couldn't score to save his life. That, is what cost us Champions league football.

Hopefully we will take a chance on Pereira,to answer your point I don't think Porto will have bought the league if they win their final game this week to win the league

Ross Edwards, do you think we could declare BK temporarily insane so he doesn't have anything to do with naming the new boss?

Colin it could be said that we all should be sectioned for our own good, just by virtue of continuing to support Everton

I think money has always ruled football even 70 or 80 years ago the clubs who spent the most on players usually won the most. When John Moores bankrolled us we were getting gates of 75,000 about what Man Utd get today, and although Everton paid back the loans from Sir John they were interest free loans.

The people who ran the European competitions set out to make their competition the most important, which they have now achieved. Obviously winning the league is still important but not as important as winning the Champions league. Wenger said qualifying for the Champions league was the equivalent of winning a trophy so the administrative people who run Europe have achieved their goal.
Also to make sure the cartel is protected they set up a seeding system which actively works against any new clubs qualifying for the Champions league, as Man City have found to their cost in the last 2 seasons. Because they were unseeded they were in the most difficult group. Yet Liverpool who haven't qualified for a few seasons of Champions league will be seeded ahead of Man City if they manage to both qualify next year. The fact that the European officials actually changed the rules to allow Liverpool to compete the year after they won the trophy despite not qualifying speaks volumes about Europe.

"Ross Edwards, do you think we could declare BK temporarily insane so he doesn't have anything to do with naming the new boss"
Don't need to. He is insane and has been for over 60 years Colin.

I don't think the comparison between the 1960s and the situation today is entirely valid. While we were certainly richer than most in the 1960s, the differential in wealth and spending power today is a far far greater magnitude, as are the actual transfer fees.

The gap between the richest few clubs, benefitting from greater prize money, TV and Champions' League, and the rest is ever widening. That's before you even talk about some of the oligarchs buying into the game (the Moores' Everton/Sheikh's Man City is not a reasonable comparison - the Arabs have spent in excess of a billion quid on City in the last few seasons. Accounting for inflation, that would have been the equivalent of Moores' spending around thirty million quid a season from 1965 until our title in 1970.
Combine that massive increase in wealth with the increased independence of players, and it's very difficult to compete. A club outside of the richest may achieve a year or two of success before they're asset stripped by the rich. We've seen that particularly since the Bosman ruling; starting with Ajax's golden generation in the mid 1990s, and obvious even now; Borussia Dortmund are going into the Champions' League final having already agreed to sell one of their biggest names before he's even reached the age of 21, and probably another to be confirmed (Lewandoski), to Bayern Munich.

Football success, and the possibility for success, is far more entrenched now than it's ever been. That's clear just from the increasing monopoly on domestic trophies - even the FA Cup and League Cup have a far narrower selection of winners since the onset of the Premier League and Champions' League than ever before.

Momentary, short term success is possible. Anything beyond that requires not just an exceptional manager, but also an exceptional business model that has the potential to build a financial structure to protect and support long term on-field success. The only other alternative is some uber-rich owner, and I'd far prefer to stay as we are than become some billionaire vanity project.

A lot of this is far worse in England than in the rest of Europe, where there is wider competition and the ownership structures and football authorities do a far better job of maintaining at least a small level parity.