Season 2012-13
Opinion
Talking Points
Don\'t look down...
Much is made of the words of Bill Kenwright regarding the appointment of the next Everton manager. I think in fairness we are reading too much into every word that is uttered by every “has been” or “wannabe” manager or player that in someway or not is associated to the club.
Sadly it's not worth speculating upon because for years we have been trying to understand the conundrum that is Everton Football Club and its management. We may as well not bother as one cannot believe a word that is said or trust I them to do the right thing — you know, what’s best for the club.
So here we are, where we always knew we would be, post Moyes: looking for hope once more. I said in a post not so long ago that Moyes would go and I feared for the club when he did because I do not have the trust in the Board to get it right. I hope I was wrong, but inside I cannot help feeling a little sick, a little angry and a little helpless.
Like all of us, I am waiting for inspiration from a new manager: like most of us I am dreading the prospect of an internal appointment.
If there is one streak (yellow) that has prevailed in the boardroom for the past decade it is the unwillingness to back a manager, the unwillingness to personally back someone with ambition. No passion, no guts, no plan.
We stand on a very precarious cliff, a wind from the wrong direction can send us spiralling down, a wind from the right direction can make us soar. Enough of the glass half-full merchants — I cannot take my eyes of the rocks below.
Over the years, we have had teams that defend well, create too, but can never score. It's been our Achilles heel. That stems from the coaching staff and getting the best out of the players. Our coaching staff have all been defenders. Says it all really... to promote from Stubbs, Weir, Neville — lord help us. We need a winner to lead from the front. If Duncan Ferguson is around in 5 years time, it may well be his moment... but not now.
The lack ambition from Kenwright is clearly evident; we have a chairman who puts the fans down — "industrial club"? Please someone tell him to think first. That’s a great tag to give a Premier League club worldwide… what do people think of when they hear "industrial"?? A throwback to the Industrial Revolution? The 60s? hard-working, cheap labour, not well thought of? Yep... great pitch, Mr Chairman, that should stop anyone with half a brain from applying from outside the North.
We have a winner on the Wirral, Mr Kenwright. A world class manager. Looking for a job. It's that easy. Will it happen? No... because Rafa has more ambition than any of the board and is not afraid to tell it the way it is. That’s why he won’t get the job. That’s why he won’t even get the phone call for a chat.
That is why we are looking for an industrial manager from Bury, or Bolton or Leeds and not the South of France, Italy or South America.
I wish so hard I am wrong, I will eat every word with a public apology on these pages if I am. But I cannot see it working any other way. It's like shopping at Aldi; you get what you pay for.
Christine Foster, Posted 20/05/2013 at 13:12:30
Reader Comments
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590 Posted 21/05/2013 at 06:45:42
591 Posted 21/05/2013 at 06:42:00
New bugbare - "Says it all really". File away with End of, and FACT.
Agree with the article.
596 Posted 21/05/2013 at 07:16:10
I'm confident that any manager we signed would come and live on Merseyside, or at least in Cheshire.
We need to look further than the ends of our noses.
Pereira's credentials have been covered.
My top choice Bielsa is just waiting for BK to make the call. Probably.
Any of those upcoming Bundesliga managers would probably be just the ticket.
Or how about Walter Mazzari who has announced he is leaving Napoli after leading them to 2nd. He also signed up Lavezzi, Cavagni and Hamsik a few years ago so one could take from that that he knows what he is doing in the transfer market ( unlike the FSW ).
The point is there are a wealth of alternative options before we go down the road of demeaning ourselves with Benitez.
597 Posted 21/05/2013 at 07:24:22
Rafa said Everton are a small club, but that's ok? Everything he has ever said about Everton has been derogatory but still people think that he would be good for the club.
If you want somebody that understands what it means to the fans, somebody who would rather cut off a testicle than lose to the RS then you need to get someone that has been at Everton before, someone that has been infected with blue blood, and more importantly someone who is desperate to get the job.
599 Posted 21/05/2013 at 07:29:31
a) The Moyes way of things will continue as they have been trained in his way
b) It would save a bob or two
c) they will be so grateful for the job that they will not dare criticise the lack of funds.
However that aside my main concern is that lack of first team coaching of all the credentials of the not so famous five (Weir, Fergie, Neville, Sheedy and Stubbs).
If we are looking for someone who is realistically will come to us knowing the constraints of the club then I think we can discount Martiniez as he may play pretty football but the end product in terms of league placing will be sacrificed for this ideology. I do not want Lennon either but why would he give up Champions LEague football and winning titles every year? The championship goers (Poyet, Zola) et al well no again - Poyet because of the attitude shown this week and Zola for me is again unproven to be what it takes. And in a million years no to the Spanish Waiter - 1) Pas 2) Rotation Policy (although I suppose the youngers would get a game!) 3) His facination with two holding centre midfielders 4) Its Rafa
So where does that leave me.....and I know only 2% (according to recent poll) agree with me.....but stp in Martin O Neil. And we may not play the most attractive brand of football BUT he has won things and he knows how to get the best out of EVERYONE.
If one accepts that we have overachieved over a number years - well the only place is down unless we can find someone who will continue to get the best out of everyone day in and day out. We have to accept Finances will be tough not just this year or next year BUT every year until the club is sold. We also have to be realistic as to who actually would come to us.
602 Posted 21/05/2013 at 08:08:34
As they all say,'Says it all,really'!
606 Posted 21/05/2013 at 08:23:22
As you have mentioned, the main problem is that the same lunatics are incharge of the asylum.
I would not trust 24/7 with finding a new toilet cleaner, he is so much up his own backside, it's all about him!
He is really enjoying the reporters outside his southern abode, at least the tears may have subsided.
607 Posted 21/05/2013 at 08:35:25
I'm a fan of Marton O'Neil (though have his powers waned?) Anyway, he's the type of manager that gets the maximum out of a limited bunch - that's where I see his strengths.
Moyes has been doing that for years, with more tactical nous in my opinion, so not sure what he can offer.
I'd love Pereira to bring in some craft around the box and still retain that maximum from the limitations. If Moyes was able to match the way Chelsea play around the penalty box we'd be... anyway.
610 Posted 21/05/2013 at 09:02:21
Alot of people are despairing of kenwright before he has even made his choice. Though there is of course good cause for concern to be fair to him he got the last pick pretty spot on.
Its impossible of course to predict at this point who would do a better job but I still lean to someone of a more European mindset such as Klinsmann, Pereira, Blance, Walter Mazzari or Rene Girard.
612 Posted 21/05/2013 at 09:07:27
616 Posted 21/05/2013 at 09:23:42
618 Posted 21/05/2013 at 09:29:48
I do agree with the premise that the Board need to invest in the new manager and share the concern that we will end up in Aldi and not John Lewis with consequent impoverished football.
619 Posted 21/05/2013 at 09:30:36
620 Posted 21/05/2013 at 09:34:41
Anyway, the guy needs lots of money ('ambition') and he'd bankrupt us and happily move back across the park.
621 Posted 21/05/2013 at 09:38:52
622 Posted 21/05/2013 at 09:38:55
626 Posted 21/05/2013 at 09:54:27
I know it'll never happen, and it's controversial, but I'm with Christine on this one - Benitez is perfect for the job, and if it wasn't for one comment, a whole lot less of you would be against him. OK so he was the RS manager, but his comment about us being a 'small club' is actually true if you take your blue-tinted glasses off for a minute. And what's wrong with daring to bait your local rivals? The man has principles & balls and I like that about him.
He's stood up to the low-lifes at Chelsea goading him every week, and look what happened there.
If people could learn not to be so petty and look at the bigger picture, on a purely footballing basis, when you compare him to all the other candidates mentioned, he IS the best choice - put all the RS bullshit out of your mind for a few minutes, and go over them all.
I personally don't see a better option for SO many reasons.
If you can put aside the RS thing.....which I know the majority can't, so it's a dead-duck.
Martinez it is then, yeah? Great, a manager who's teams can't defend and struggle with relegation every year.....but hey, at least you get to watch pretty football every week, we'll score goals, lose most games but look good doing it. Brilliant choice.
I see Klinsmann is being mooted this morning too, but then as soon as PAddy Power tweeted about it, there were flurries of bets. Hmmm? So Jurgen has started following the Everton twitter feed as well....hmmm....maybe he's just interested in keeping up to date. And for anyone who thinks he'll come, and bring Donovan with him, go do some research.....he and Mr Klinsmann do not get along terribly well and a certain Mr T Howard might well find himself out of a job too.
At the end of the day, Kenwright has fucked up by saying he'd listen to the fans, and also by saying about us being an 'industrial' club. Stupid words from a man who thinks his own soundbites matter. They don't and it has nothing to do with us who they appoint,
In all honesty, I know the Rafa thing will never happen, nor Klinsmann, nor Laudrup - hopefully not Martinez either, so that leaves us with one choice......yes, it's the backroom staff. Just choose one.
629 Posted 21/05/2013 at 09:56:49
The most annoying/worrying thing is EFC still don't have a man in place weeks after Moyes signed for the Mancs and probably 6 months after knowing Moyes was leaving!? It's typical Everton, typical Kenwright to be caught with their kecks around their ankles. We all know our board is an absolute disgraceful joke but this situation is a fucking piss-take.
Who ever Weepy Bill wants in then get him the fuck in and let's start building for next season. I don't care who it is anymore as we can't afford to be rudderless much longer. If it's Pip and Co then so be it. As much as I don't want an internal appointment, I would rather that than Lennon, O'Niell, MacKay etc. FFS get Big Joe and Riedy in on a caretaker level untill we get sorted. We are once more a laughing stock thanks to the clowns who run this once great club.
631 Posted 21/05/2013 at 10:11:46
As for his calling us a "small club" if you behave like one,and conduct your business like a small club it is inevitable you will be labelled with that tag
633 Posted 21/05/2013 at 10:31:52
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22541130
634 Posted 21/05/2013 at 10:24:53
For me the choice isn't ever going to include Anyone who has experience, a winner or the skill to take the club to the next level. The FSW will never get the call because of his reputation for working with a board, which isn't good , but he wins things. Isn't that what the game is about?
So, do want a pain in the arse who wins, or a nice guy who tries?
635 Posted 21/05/2013 at 10:47:32
The suspense is doing my head in. I think BK is probably leaving it as long as possible, to the point were we all won't care we'll all just be made up he appointed one
636 Posted 21/05/2013 at 10:47:18
When O'Neill was at Villa they finished 6th for three seasons on the trot. Not saying I'd want him for Everton but Beneathus V O'Neill...seriously hope it doesn't come to that.
639 Posted 21/05/2013 at 10:57:11
Your main concern, winning the local derby. Fuck me, that sounds so small minded in the context of this post. Yes, understanding the local rivalry is important but really, is that your main concern when it comes to picking the next manager?
640 Posted 21/05/2013 at 10:50:11
I know through every season there are the occasional - that's it, I'm done with football, you won't see me supporting the club, bye bye, its all over for me - submissions and you think alright, see you August, to which we invariably do. But if this person took over Everton I'd put my support on hiatus. Not as a choice, the desire just would not be there. And it wouldn't come back till the day he left... and all his signings buggered off too. May as well change to a red kit and sing you'll never walk alone. Ughhh...
641 Posted 21/05/2013 at 10:59:34
Christine's 'out of touch'?
Talk about brass fucking neck!
Really. have you no shame at all?
You confidently lectured us all for YEARS on what a genius Bill Kenwright was.
Remember bollocks like..
"As you would expect, I remain totally hooked on DK and suportive of Blue Bill’s handling of the matter"
Or (again to Christine) after DK - an insane, fucked-up catastrophe of a scheme that you supported 100% - you were still lecturing...
"No chairman in the game is everybody’s cup of tea but, all in all, Bill does a good job for us and has brought a stability so lacking in about 90% of League clubs in this era. I always plead for patience, understanding and a little more loyalty to the cause. Any fool can knock — and my god, do you like knocking — just let’s see a little more of the Evertonian from you dear lady!"
Then after years of this tripe, you do a COMPLETE U-turn and suddenly Bill's a wanker.
Sorry but I for one take a huge sack of salt with anything you have to offer and although I haven't been a big supporter of Benitez for the position, your being against it, given your record, makes me think he me might be the right choice.
642 Posted 21/05/2013 at 11:00:49
I am telling you now, Martinez is the best we can hope for, even if he isn't your first choice.
Neville, Stuart McCall, Stubbs, Dave Jones,Weir, McKay, Lennon,all names that make me shudder.
I didn't even consider Klinsmann, but that would be an appointment to show the football world we are a serious club, not some remnant from 1993.
This is the ideal time for the Board to show some leadership, unite the fan base, and make a huge statement of intent - it is not the time to give the job to a reserve coach.
Martinez is not my first choice, but he would bring something different for us to judge his methods by.
643 Posted 21/05/2013 at 11:06:12
Which industrial manager will take the club up to the next level? Who? Anyone?
My post tried to say, Bolton bury or Wigan for that matter or Europe, anywhere else..
The board appears to be looking in not out.
644 Posted 21/05/2013 at 10:47:44
I broadly agree with the tone re: ambition of the board / club etc. and with the time not being right for Big Dunc. I also agree that the world "industrial" positions us far from our roots of "School of Science".
However, this is where I disagree:
1. Benitez. As other posters have highlighted very well, NOT in a million years. When hell freezes over. When kopites cease being whining, sycophants etc etc. Past insults / obnoxious behavious aside, he's in waiting for the Liverpool job.
2. We're skint. FACT. Given that constraint, the club were probably unable to back the manager. The rights and wrongs can be debated for hours. However, that's the reality of the situation. No point in playing Fantasy Football.
Given the above, I look on the current situation as an opportunity to build. Seize the day. A change of direction. Revolution rather than evolution. (Other cliches available on request).
Victor Pereira - potentially low cost and proven winner - may be worth a 2-3 year contract with more potential upside than home-grown "industrial types". Admittedly, there's also the downside of the risk (Juande Ramos factor etc.)
We may be pleasantly surprised by BK's next move. Then again I remember the appointment of HK Mk 3. (And I suspect it'll be PN).
645 Posted 21/05/2013 at 11:12:14
Pretty much the only thing we have that garners respect from so many others is our class and dignity. We don't 'buy' trophies and we don't dive or wave imaginary cards (generally). I wince on the rare occasions I see it from one of ours because that is not our way. Why on earth would we employ someone who personifies every trait that makes us who we are - trophieless we may be, but honest and dignified we also are. I would rather carve out my own spleen with a butter knife than become like the RS.
Other candidates could offer us success without compromising any of those qualities. Vitor Pereira for me. He speaks fluent English, wants to manage in the Premier League, has not lost a game this season and has won the Portuguese league both seasons he has been in charge, HE PLAYS WITH A HIGH DEFENCE VERY SUCCESSFULLY and nothing I am seeing anywhere is swaying me away from him, let alone toward any other candidate in particular. Please God can we stop people suggesting Rafael Beneathcontemptus!
646 Posted 21/05/2013 at 11:22:55
649 Posted 21/05/2013 at 11:16:41
I take your point... though perhaps using the FSW was not necessary in making it!
I don't agree with your 'industrial v a winner', more in what that implies about Moyes.
But yes, your average industrial type isn't going to bring the nous with him to break the top 4, as the higher up the leagues you go the less percentages are played as the skill base in the players allows for more technical play. Horses fro courses perhaps.
That said, it was the industrial type that brought us in with a shout. Moyes did more to prop us up than he did in holding us back, so the potential to slip back with the ball playing manager type may well be a risk worth taking if we're dog tired of finishing 6th and 7th.
If this were Bullseye I'd be shouting Gamble! But we could end up with bus fair home.
Terrible analogy.
650 Posted 21/05/2013 at 11:30:21
Victor Pereira - strengthens to 14/1 - (spotted shopping in St John's Market?)
Source - Paddy Power
653 Posted 21/05/2013 at 11:39:31
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOt-5IiMI9U
Raising the good and bad about him.
655 Posted 21/05/2013 at 11:40:02
656 Posted 21/05/2013 at 11:45:25
MacKay was named Championship Manager of the Season last night at the LMA awards. I'd have expected him to shorten in the betting after that.
657 Posted 21/05/2013 at 11:44:03
Seriously, have a think about the reality of appointing a manager - these are himan beings, with families & careers to think about, so just because YOU think Everton are the best thing since sliced bread, doesn't mean anyone else does in this country, let alone abroad.
Most younger people outside the UK have never even heard of us!
658 Posted 21/05/2013 at 11:48:58
659 Posted 21/05/2013 at 11:46:24
I'm inclined to agree with Nick here, my interest would drop a couple of notches with an odious twat in charge.
If you want definitive proof that Rafa is an idiot, here it is... He's a multi-millionaire, famous, Spanish native. Does he live in Marjorca with a house that looks out over the Mediterranean with all the bikini clad beach lovelies? No, he lives on the Wirral. What a twat!
661 Posted 21/05/2013 at 11:53:56
"Seriously, have a think about the reality of appointing a manager - these are himan beings, with families & careers to think about"
Meanwhile, over at Goodison...
Kenwright - "So Vitor, the offer is on the table, its a fair one, you can't say its not. We're a big club, lots of history, what do you say?"
Pereira - "I'm sorry Bill, I have a career to think about".
Kenwright - "Shitballs".
663 Posted 21/05/2013 at 12:09:28
"There are only two things in life that are infinite. The universe and mans stupidity and i'm still unsure about the former".
Doddy has just proven this beyond doubt.
670 Posted 21/05/2013 at 12:27:39
671 Posted 21/05/2013 at 12:00:26
Sorry, why would anyone want a genius manager?
Look he's not my first choice, but his record is the best out there of available managers.
If we're honest, most Evertonians are against Benitez because he made one sarky comment about us.
It got us all worked up at the time but that really is all it was.
Those arguing the case for him are simply putting aside an old grievance.
And actually, once you do that, there IS a decent case for Benitz.
As for him not living in Majorca, well Duncan tried it and he jipped it for football in the North West too.
And a beach chocker with bikini-clad lovelies isn't much use to you if your large pear-shaped missus has her eye on you all day.
(plus there are more horrible leery cockneys in Majorca than there are at Chelsea)
675 Posted 21/05/2013 at 12:48:24
And anyone who doesn't want him on the basis that he's slagged us off a few times are total hypocrits if they've ever slagged off Liverpool FC.
678 Posted 21/05/2013 at 12:27:02
Not only are we the biggest club in the world in my head we also undoubtedly offer the largest managerial vacancy in the richest league in the world. ( Assuming Mourinho to Chelski & Pellegrini to City are a given. Which they are ).
Therefore we deserve and should be able to attract a bloody fantastic manager.
And the only reason we won't is because of the buffoon in charge of the club.
And to my mind if Benitez is the full scale of your ambition because you haven't heard of any of the other options or he's the man you think is 'realistically' the best option available to us on the basis that he owns a house in the area then you are a swivel eyed loony. All due respect.
Moyes has laid some amazing foundations that a manager with a bit of je ne sais quoi should have a field day with.'
Rafa or Martin O'Neill...give me strength.
679 Posted 21/05/2013 at 13:00:03
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ian-snodin-alan-stubbs-fits-3903395
Have we really fallen this far? Lazy,unimaginative and no ambition to take this club anywhere type appointment.
I will seriously be asking for refunds if this is the best we can do.
680 Posted 21/05/2013 at 12:11:50
Bill: "well the last guy when on to get a half decent job".
681 Posted 21/05/2013 at 12:54:18
The idiotic attack on his own club's fans a few months back, and the ridiculous rant at Fergie some seasons ago are two examples of a highly unstable individual.
His last 2 seasons at the RS saw increasingly eccentric behaviour - selling Alonso for no good reason showed a man with a propensity to shoot himself in the foot. He didn't leave Inter on good terms either.
I would like a manager who stands up for all our club's values - which for me includes dignity and class.
For this reason, I would like to see a promotion from within. People talk about lack of experience etc etc but Villas-Boas (Porto days), Ancelloti (Parma days), Rijkaard (Holland/Barca) have shown that success can be achieved by those without a track-record.
682 Posted 21/05/2013 at 12:37:02
683 Posted 21/05/2013 at 13:05:08
684 Posted 21/05/2013 at 13:07:22
"I would like a manager who stands up for all our club's values - which for me includes dignity and class."
Which translates into 'We can shave £3.5m a year off the wages'
Sentimental horseshit I'm afraid!!
685 Posted 21/05/2013 at 13:03:48
To make the point there are very good managers available, and yes some who we would have a problem with, but they are available.
We appear to be ignoring the possible and going for the probable, Moyes did get us so far but I, for one, want the club to push on, not slip back. I fear the latter if we appoint from within, I fear the latter if we go for an untried or inexperienced manager in the British mode.
686 Posted 21/05/2013 at 13:09:52
This is the man that has already publicly dismissed Everton as a "small club" and took a club that regularly finished in the top 4 backwards, while pulling the wool over the eyes of a lot of idiots inside our old stadium by somehow fluking a European Cup via games they should have lost in almost every round, were it not for some appalling refereeing decisions.
No man that signed Babel, Pennant, Dossena, Riera for the same cost that we paid for Lescott, Arteta, Baines, Jagielka, Pienaar, Howard, Neville and there is still change!!
It can't and it won't be Benitez! I will actually cry!
687 Posted 21/05/2013 at 13:00:09
I am on record as being one of the few posters who doesn't bear LFC any real ill will. They're our local rivals so I want us to beat them, that's as far as it goes with me. Unless, that is, one of their players show themselves to be vile cheats - like Suarez - or an LFC manager openly disrespects our club, as Benitez did. In my opinion he is also a pompous bore; I really don't like him at all.
As far as I can tell, most posters seem to hate LFC, really hate them. As far as I can tell, most posters are deeply proud of EFC, Latin motto and all, and see EFC as a haven of decency. We have "values", we are in some way "special". There is much talk of our fans being born not manufactured, etc. Personally, I don't go that far. They are my club, that's the beginning and end of it; some of the mythologising leaves me cold.
And yet... a lot of people have come on here recommending Benitez as our new manager! Why? Because, despite the fact that he has belittled us and generally behaves like an arrogant swine, "he's a winner". So that's what's most important, is it? If so, people want to pipe down with their grand claims about our club. It just does not compute. If LFC are scum then you shouldn't ask for Benitez to be installed at Goodison. If our hard-won reputation as a great club with a proud history matters then you shouldn't ask for Benitez. Alternatively, if you want Benitez then put your hands up and say those other things don't matter. You can't have it both ways.
Whatever next? A cheeky bid for Suarez? Sort your heads out.
688 Posted 21/05/2013 at 13:09:01
It just feels... dirty.
It's like selling your soul to the devil for the promise of riches.
It also feels like we should have more pride than this - we're better than this to select the FSW. There's enough qualified candidates out there that don't spend stupid amounts of money and think we are a small Club.
I know this is intangible, but something in my mind is just not right with Rafa being Everton manager.
Shit's just wrong...
689 Posted 21/05/2013 at 13:22:50
Are people serious?
I also doubt Phil Neville will suddenly start managing players he has just finished playing with, we aren't League 1 FFS!
Bill is in danger of putting off a lot of supporters with his next appointment when he could bring a fresh wave of excitement.
Like a phobia of German sausages, I fear the worst.
690 Posted 21/05/2013 at 12:50:35
But seriously, I understand people wanting Rafa: he is a winner and is not easily controllable for any board so, for just those two reasons, he could be a good choice. For me, there are many more top class managers out there in Europe that I would be going for.
I don't know what Richard Dodd is going on about being out of touch, I personally would hate it if we got Rafa but, going by what others are posting lately, it seems a lot of people are open to the idea so I'm not sure if the voice of reason (Richard Dodd) has any grounds to make that claim.
I've found your comments on most threads to be quite honest and to the point. In fact, if I'm having a "can't be arsed" kind of day, I will scour down a thread and read the people's posts whose opinions I respect and normally agree with — people like yourself, Eugene Ruane, Tony Marsh, Michael Kenrick and several others.
If I want to raise the blood pressure and just get annoyed then I find a little dose of Dodd and Entwistle does the trick.
691 Posted 21/05/2013 at 13:29:37
I accept that investment in the squad is needed to really push on and that may be an issue but we should be looking to improve on what Moyes has done / left.
It must not be a promotion from within because at this moment in time the candidates do not have the experience or presence to take us to the next level.
Just my opinion.
I am also very worried that I will be let down again by BK
693 Posted 21/05/2013 at 13:26:23
Rafa is an unlikable guy. I'm not sure I could support Everton and, by extension, a guy like him with the same sort enthusiasm. It might not be a pragmatic way of looking at things but, when did being a football supporter have anything to do with pragmatism?
As for Majorca, the pissed up cockneys are all in the south, I would only ever holiday in the north of that island. Branson and the King of Spain both have houses there. The only downside is there's not many KFC's.
BTW, RIP Ray Manzerek.
694 Posted 21/05/2013 at 13:33:35
Secondly, once Brenda gets the push over the park, you know who is going to have the first application in for that job, even if he was managing us.
695 Posted 21/05/2013 at 13:33:48
We can put forward cases for so many managers from Benitez to Klinsmann to Martinez etc etc — I think it's immaterial. Bill will go for the easy cheap option.
696 Posted 21/05/2013 at 13:40:53
Your overall article is once again superb.
You say : We appear to be ignoring the possible and going for the probable, Moyes did get us so far but I for one, want the club to push on, not slip back.
That, I would have to imagine, 99% of TW readers and contributors would agree with.
Leaving the FSW out of the argument, your opinion that we must not make an internal appointment I agree with 100% and see your wider point.
698 Posted 21/05/2013 at 13:48:21
700 Posted 21/05/2013 at 13:44:28
More chance of plaiting soot imo but maybe the good lord will bestow on us his grace and love and provide us with a miracle
(probably not today though, watching the news this morning, something has obviously pissed him off 'big time' as the young'uns say).
Re Ray Manzerek (and yes R.I.P indeed), here's a question.
How much pressure is the organist at HIS funeral going to be under?
Now THERE is a man/woman with nerve!
701 Posted 21/05/2013 at 14:14:35
Do I Hate suarez? Yes. Would I have him at Everton? Yes. He's a world class player, don't give a flying fuck about the rest.
Respect, dignity etc = good losers.
I Hate Wenger, Fergie, Mourinho, Benítez and all the other great managers out there. And i'd havê any one of them at our club.
702 Posted 21/05/2013 at 13:39:23
For your enlightenment, Mr Ruane, my views on Kenwright changed totally after the pathetically amateurish way he dealt with Blue Union meeting and demonstrations. (Not that I agree with BU`s tactics either!)
Having said that, I believe it is premature to slag him off for taking a little time to name Moyes's successor. Better to get the right man in June than the wrong one in May!
Spending 60% of my working week in the Wigan area, their fans' grapevine is as lively as ours and they remain convinced that Martinez is Everton bound. Gossip this morning is that the delay in announcing his appointment is his wish to be part of last night's FA Cup celebration AND his need to consider Kenwright`s offer which is scarcely more generous than his present deal at the DW! (Perhaps he`s hoping Whelan will cap it when they meet next Sunday?)
Of course the gossip changes on a regional basis and our Newport depot is convinced that Davey`s great friend Malky,is the man BK is waiting for.
Most papers this morning have Jimmy Lumsden as Moyes's choice of coach to take with him so, on the home front, there is still no shortage of candidates if the money on offer doesn't appeal to the outsiders!
703 Posted 21/05/2013 at 14:19:49
704 Posted 21/05/2013 at 14:12:50
As Snod's says - great Evertonian, that'll do for me.
712 Posted 21/05/2013 at 14:45:37
713 Posted 21/05/2013 at 14:49:47
718 Posted 21/05/2013 at 14:55:49
729 Posted 21/05/2013 at 14:57:54
Stop whining.
I didn't take you to task for disagreeing with anyone.
We all do it on here each day, it's allowed.
My beef with you is the ultra-confident, often snotty tone which, FOR YEARS you used to peddle your pro-BK mantra.
Everyone who could see exactly what he is were 'hate-filled' fools and couldn't (like you) see 'the bigger picture' etc blah waffle.
Then, after years of this, you perform your U-turn re Tom Pepper.
Fair enough though, maybe it just took longer for you to figure it out and you had learned a valuable lesson?
No chance!
Because you CONTINUE to peddle your opinions in the same ridiculously self-assured manner and you CONTINUE to be snotty and dismissive.
In short, you are as confident about everything now as you were back then.
You say "For your enlightenment, Mr Ruane..."
Er,,No thanks - for years you enlightened me re what a wonderful guy Bill is and you also enlightened me re how great DK would have been - how much enlightenment do you think I can take?
740 Posted 21/05/2013 at 15:09:29
741 Posted 21/05/2013 at 15:08:35
Holy Entwistle Batman.
Pullis?
Shell-suit Pullis?
To be fair to teary Billy no-one saw this one coming
and no-one felt that he might slump this low.
But if there is the slightest shred of truth about
shell-suit Pullis then .....
I don't know what. I can't imagine how awful it
would be an d what I might feel if it were to happen.
Well the 1st surviving factory was in mutant-ville
This can't be true, surely
I can't face my hard boiled and soldiers
No, no, no no .........
745 Posted 21/05/2013 at 15:15:15
Fingers crossed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22614097
755 Posted 21/05/2013 at 14:51:09
769 Posted 21/05/2013 at 15:26:37
780 Posted 21/05/2013 at 15:45:02
784 Posted 21/05/2013 at 15:45:00
Yes, we need the right manager right now. We need a proven manager who has won things. Whether it is Martinez, Rafa or someone else, what we don’t want is a nice bloke or an unproven coach who will take us backwards.
Like most posters here, I love Everton. However having supported Everton for nearly 50 years and now being in my mid fifties, I am resigned to never seeing Everton win a Premier league in my lifetime. I am sick of my mates who support the “successful clubs” taking the piss and saying that Everton are nice club etc. They all know that Everton will never be a threat to their teams. By the way, my MU mates are totally bemused/amused that Bill is allowing DM to double job. It shows just what a nice (joke) club we are.
Like Fran, if being managed by undesirable would ensure that we could win something, bring it on. The same with any player (Gerrard excluded). In Rafa’s defence, I have called the RS a lot worse than a “small club” over the years. If it was meant to upset us, it certainly worked.
In my humble opinion, we all (including Bill and the board), need the right man regardless of any baggage. Whoever it is, get him in now Bill and let me dream of winning a cup and perhaps by a miracle, a league title in my lifetime.
785 Posted 21/05/2013 at 15:33:18
Nonetheless, I will still try and reason with you. Promotion from within the ranks is something successful / ambitious / "rich" clubs have done too. For example Barca. There is no shame in this at all. A big part of Villanova's appointment was to uphold the club's values and continue Guardiola's work. He didn't do too bad - finishing a street ahead of Real Madrid and forcing Mourinho out of a job. The CL performance was a debacle, but if Villanova's health is restored, I see them winning that trophy next season.
The RS too, during their glory years, promoted from within - Shankley was replaced by Paisley, then Fagan then Dogleash.
We tried it in the late 80's when Harvey replaced Kendall.
The experience argument is offset by continuity. Appointing a complete novice with no idea of what the fans expect from our club is far too risky. But promoting Stubbs with Irvine as his assistant doesn't seem like a gamble at all.
786 Posted 21/05/2013 at 15:47:56
794 Posted 21/05/2013 at 15:56:32
796 Posted 21/05/2013 at 15:51:18
I think the main point is, the more the playing staff will run through brick walls for you, the better chance you have.
This may or may not be the case inside Goodison, but I just don't see Neville or Stubbs being the great charismatic type of manager we require to push on. I don't think they could get Jelavic out of his slump, or either of them have a great scouting network for European bargains. (something that would be top of my list for the new man BTW)
All that class & dignity stuff is great - but that's half our problem, we are too nice.
798 Posted 21/05/2013 at 15:51:46
I think they deserve h...um..I mean I think HE deserves a go.
Sure It would be his first appointment so he would probably need help, but if he had a team around him (eg: Neville, Weir, Round, Lennon and O'Neil), I think he'd do really well.
Come on Stoke, don't promote from within, you know it's doomed!
800 Posted 21/05/2013 at 15:55:36
That is so much the Moyes way of achieving medium boiled eggs...what we need now is a fearless continental approach. Go for broke when the water boills and turn the gas up even higher. To hell with the old fashioned timing approach...you'll know, you'll just know! You might be happy to settle for "tiny bit dippy" but some of us haven't forgotton what NSNO actually stands for.
807 Posted 21/05/2013 at 16:10:47
811 Posted 21/05/2013 at 16:16:28
No wonder we won't get a good manager with the likes of you supporting this club!
812 Posted 21/05/2013 at 16:10:08
I didn't mention anything about Benitez living in the area, though it does of course help.
If you seriously believe we're the biggest club in the World, you're always going to be disappointed - people need to learn to manage their expectations. Everton aren't even the biggest club in Liverpool!
We won't attract a big name, because we have a crappy old stadium and not a pot to piss in. We're not as attractive as you like to think we are.
818 Posted 21/05/2013 at 16:21:38
821 Posted 21/05/2013 at 16:33:13
824 Posted 21/05/2013 at 16:40:45
Keep up.
845 Posted 21/05/2013 at 17:21:44
RS supporters who impose on our angst must be pissing themselves!
846 Posted 21/05/2013 at 17:28:43
849 Posted 21/05/2013 at 17:31:32
855 Posted 21/05/2013 at 17:37:19
I suspect they might have Martinez in their sights.
Interesting comparing their list to ours:
Rafa Benitez 2/1 - Roberto Di Matteo 4/1 - Gus Poyet 10/1 - Mark Hughes 12/1 - Phil Neville 14/1 - Roberto Martinez 16/1 - Martin O'Neill 16/1 - Ole Gunnar Solskjaer 20/1 - Steve Bould 20/1 - Malky Mackay 20/1 - Steve McClaren 20/1 - Dougie Freedman 25/1 0 Neil Lennon 28/1 - Owen Coyle 33/1 - Gary Neville 40/1
864 Posted 21/05/2013 at 17:48:16
865 Posted 21/05/2013 at 17:45:34
Look at the players who have played for both sides.
Rafa with Dunc as his number two, if we can't get Biesla or Perrerria.
I said it on the matchday forum at the weekend. This appointment will tell us loads. If it's in house or Martinzez, BK is looking for another human shield, someone who won't rock the boat.
Rafa, Biesla, Pererrai, will fight, want investment, they won't be his human shield.
If he lets Rafa go to Stoke to appoint Stubbs/Weir/Nev as the number one, well fuck it, we are doomed.
So Bill do you have the clubs best interests at heart, or your own?
867 Posted 21/05/2013 at 17:51:12
Has there ever been so many changes of managers in such a short space of time?
876 Posted 21/05/2013 at 18:01:20
Stop using his home address as a reason to give him the job! Who gives a shit if it's a convenient commute for him!
894 Posted 21/05/2013 at 18:49:54
I think that says it all really.
Anyway, it won't happen because BK wouldn't dare upset everyone, even if there are 10 people on here who think it's a good idea.
895 Posted 21/05/2013 at 18:53:55
Bankrupt Liverpool as near as damn it.
Been relegated (not allowed by some).
He inherited his trophy sides.
Plays as bad a brand of footy as Moyes
(guess who?)
Nothing to do with calling us a small club or associations with the RS, it's like saying the queen is a really good business woman because she's loaded.
Need to look a bit deeper.
896 Posted 21/05/2013 at 19:00:40
899 Posted 21/05/2013 at 18:54:17
904 Posted 21/05/2013 at 19:02:04
912 Posted 21/05/2013 at 19:07:54
914 Posted 21/05/2013 at 19:17:38
He could appoint Jamie Carragher for all I care, as long as he won games.
921 Posted 21/05/2013 at 19:18:24
933 Posted 21/05/2013 at 19:24:36
Heard someone talking about his genius and thought 'shit, imagine being the feller who has to play the organ at HIS funeral'.
To be honest, I only really listen to country or what is now referred to by bland 'New Country' radio stations as 'too Country' or 'hard core country' (ie: Lefty Frizzell, Hank Williams, Webb Pierce, Hank Snow, George Jones, Merle Haggard etc etc).
Know it's not everyone's cup of tea but imo, as they say in Nashville, "if it ain't country, it ain't music"
(throws hat in the air etc)
940 Posted 21/05/2013 at 19:39:31
Intreaguing or what?
945 Posted 21/05/2013 at 19:50:27
948 Posted 21/05/2013 at 19:50:52
If we were a big club then big Vic wouldn't be the first choice striker
if we were a big club we would have won a trophy since 1995
if we were a big club we wouldn't have a stadium with obstructed views and some wooden seats. We can't live in past decades, we are certainly not a big club (anymore sadly). We could be again but thats not on the horizon.
949 Posted 21/05/2013 at 19:50:46
Richard Dodd, I guess we'll be getting all these rumours until someone is actually appointed. I can see Cahill moving into management eventually. If his preparation is anything like his will to win then I think he'd do well.
950 Posted 21/05/2013 at 19:54:06
952 Posted 21/05/2013 at 19:45:45
953 Posted 21/05/2013 at 19:56:29
If he's such a good manager, why has he been begging around Europe doing a Yozza Hughes without any offers?
Did you know that Benitez advised Stoke on their Europa Cup failure?
But, he lives local and I'm sure he didn't mean all those nasty things he said.
955 Posted 21/05/2013 at 20:03:35
959 Posted 21/05/2013 at 20:06:50
961 Posted 21/05/2013 at 19:56:33
Martin O'Neill failed at Sunderland but failing at Sunderland shouldn't be a negative on any cv. There seem to be quite a few "coaches" on this site who think they could win the league with Celtic or could have won it before Rangers were booted out.
Managing Rangers or Celtic is a huge and tough job. Lennon wouldn't be my first choice but I'd take him before many mentioned.
Do we want an unlikeable winner or one of the lads. Bill will never want an unlikeable coach because being liked is what drives him.
000 Posted 21/05/2013 at 20:49:51
Paul: Serious question.Is there anybody/anything associated with Everton you like?
Explain. WTF are you talking about?
Now I have little or no trouble when you spout your same-old same-old, but that's rather different to this sort of Doddism.
Explain
And it had better be good.
011 Posted 21/05/2013 at 21:04:09
Do I want glory... Yes! Do I want us to stay in the Premier League... Yes!
Do I want a floundering, pointing knob in the dug out... No!
Do I want shit, an untried footy tactician with years of DM mentoring... No!
Whilst we're getting less TV money for finishing higher than the Shite, let's just win SOMETHING? A result away at the big 4, a cup for Gods sake?
Can you imagine a win at Anfield with Rafa at the helm? A cup Final? He's a knob, called us a small club... But would you want your manager being all nicey, nicey?
Rafa before Neville any day of the week. How anyone can look at this situation beyond RESULTS is beyond me?
014 Posted 21/05/2013 at 21:13:58
022 Posted 21/05/2013 at 21:35:50
(1) how on earth did I get 'violent' - please explain?
(2) let me explain as you appear to be a little lost here. 'Mutants' is a well-worn term on these board for Stoke City FC - it refers to (A) their style of footie (B) and perhaps more poignantly, to what seem to be the ugliest living-dead-like mutant supporters on the planet who are pictured on Sky each transfer-window gathered on a hill outside the training ground. If you trace your way through a window forum you will notice many posts to this effect.
(3) So Richard, please explain to me how I indulged in 'reference to mutants in connection with our club`s coaches' will you please?
(4) This - 'would actually be a good appointment/fit. Stubbs/Weir at Mutant Hill' - and listen carefully, is therefore saying that Stubbs/Weir would be a good fit at Stoke City FC. Is that clear?
Mutant Hill = Stoke FC, Get it?
You are somewhat out of the loop. You get many things wrong and you did it yet again.
That's what we want at EFC: continuity, consistency .....
024 Posted 21/05/2013 at 21:49:50
025 Posted 21/05/2013 at 21:55:21
I honestly don`t get to do much reading about Stoke City.
027 Posted 21/05/2013 at 22:07:43
035 Posted 21/05/2013 at 22:17:49
James, making insulting comments about a club is no bar to becoming their manager, just ask Rafa... !
038 Posted 21/05/2013 at 22:26:12
045 Posted 21/05/2013 at 22:35:46
Check out those Stoke fans next window closing day.
They truly do not belong to the human race, flesh dripping
everywhere
046 Posted 21/05/2013 at 22:37:03
boards.
I think that most people got it.
047 Posted 21/05/2013 at 22:38:30
050 Posted 21/05/2013 at 22:41:19
051 Posted 21/05/2013 at 22:46:47
065 Posted 21/05/2013 at 22:25:20
I can not believe I just read that.
Here's what you do:
Run down to the convenience store and buy some chewing tobacco
buy a pick-up truck
begin to talk in a twang that is basically incoherent
purchase at least 3 shotguns and one semi-automatic which can be instantaneously modified to become fully automatic
buy a gun rack for that new truck. Place aforementioned newly acquired firearms in the gun rack
affix the confederate flag to the front grill of the pick-up truck, and while you're at it buy one for the front yard and fly it proudly
make sure - and this is a must - you become a card-carrying member of the NRA
Oh, and buy cowboy boots (a.k.a "shit-kickers)
If you're gonna like country music, ya gotta play the part.
130 Posted 22/05/2013 at 06:46:32
135 Posted 22/05/2013 at 07:04:31
Yes indeed, an 'Industrial Club', a truly shocking indictment of what Everton FC has been reduced to.
I share your dread at the prospect of an internal appointment, it beggars belief that this is even been contemplated, but sadly it doesn't come as much of a surprise to me, it meerly reinforces the lack of ambition that has become all to apparent to those who have born witness to the mind set at board room level.
Rest assured that when the new season is upon us, we can look forward to the spectacle of our dear leader being applauded by the faithful seals.
I take no comfort from posting such a negative view on events, but I share your fears Christine, this is a watershed moment.
And Rafa?, it's never going to happen Christine, he doesn't fit the profile, Tony Pullis on the other hand .........................
'Hail To The Thief'
141 Posted 22/05/2013 at 07:34:16
Shouldn't "Make your wife and sister the same person" apply to your list?
142 Posted 22/05/2013 at 07:08:56
You did well though, in fact you only missed (the hilarious) "Country music, it's all about dead dogs - har har"
Look forward to further music genre 'insights'.
Maybe we can expect..
"Rock Music. They've all got long hair and they're all on drugs mate".
Or..
"Hip Hop. They all wear them dead big gold chains and call their tarts 'bitches'"
260 Posted 22/05/2013 at 10:57:44
My Achy Breaky Heart err, breaks when I hear a fellow Evertonian talking that way.
Clearly your rock of pride in the club has been eroded by Kenwright's incompetence lapping against it.
Well the facts remain, we ARE the biggest club in The City.
We ARE the biggest vacancy in the Premier League
Our old manager just left for Man Utd
There is plenty of upside for an ambitious continental manager coming here and I refuse to accept your 'realistic' and unaspirational ( is that a word?) view of the club.
The piss in the doughnut is that I feel certain BK thinks more like you than he does me.
But I shall remain optimistic... At least until Stubbsy is appointed
321 Posted 22/05/2013 at 12:54:09
I do apologize. From what I've read you seem the polar opposite of a country music fan - in a stereotypical, small-minded way.
TBH your liking country music just cracked me up.
At any rate if I offended I do apologize. Wasn't my intention and if my comments only reinforce to you I'm feeble-minded, well I get that.
You do have to admit you wouldn't see many scousers at a Hank Williams Jr. concert in Birmingham, Alabama or some such place...
522 Posted 22/05/2013 at 17:15:55
mystery, FA CUP semi, Highbury '84, two fellas along from me was a very handsome blue who kept humming 'Stand by Your Man'.
It must have been Eugene.
531 Posted 22/05/2013 at 17:21:51
In fact many years later, I remember attempting to adapt the Tammy Wynette hit for Everton purposes.
Unfortunately, I just couldn't get anyone else to join in with 'Stand by your Manuel Fernandes'.
Ithangyew!
660 Posted 22/05/2013 at 20:47:42
Quick bet back to the thank you not thread, Scott Hamilton is preening another razor sharp retort that will doubtless leave you floored one more time
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585 Posted 21/05/2013 at 06:13:44